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Tea Parties - Page 2

post #41 of 207
It ain't 3%. It's a fantasy that the number is that low. Surely he's only looking at some single budget line item that actually says "welfare" while ignoring all of the things that actually are welfare regardless of what they are called. Or, he's just pulling a number out of his ass.
post #42 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Ever heard of the expression: "the straw that broke the camel's back"?

3% of our taxes amounts to how many millions (or billions) of dollars?

Not to mention the fact that government administered welfare is unconstitutional in the first place.

You crack me up Jazzguru. You really do. God bless ya'.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #43 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Good. I'm glad he said what he said. We'll run that tape non-stop during his re-election. It will be the gift that keeps on giving.

And how will that go exactly? Will it be:

"See, here's someone that actually reads and understand the United States Constitution! We can't have that in elected official!!!"

Or maybe:

"Did you see that?!?! He said "states rights"!!!! He might as well have just said 'Let's go out and kill black people'!"
post #44 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I donate over 10% of my income to charity. I'd probably donate more if the government would let me keep more of it.

Good for you. More people should donate to charity. But most people don't. I think history has proven that human kind doesn't really give a shit about human kind.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #45 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

And how will that go exactly? Will it be:

"See, here's someone that actually reads and understand the United States Constitution! We can't have that in elected official!!!"

Or maybe:

"Did you see that?!?! He said "states rights"!!!! He might as well have just said 'Let's go out and kill black people'!"

Nope. It'll just be that one line he uttered. On repeat. It'll be great! We'll Jeremiah Wright him.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #46 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

It ain't 3%. It's a fantasy that the number is that low. Surely he's only looking at some single budget line item that actually says "welfare" while ignoring all of the things that actually are welfare regardless of what they are called. Or, he's just pulling a number out of his ass.

In 1992 it was 1%. It's up to about 3% now.

"The actual cost of welfare programs-about 1 percent of the federal budget and 2 percent of state budgets (McLaughlin, 1997)-is proportionally less than generally believed. During the 104th Congress, more than 93 percent of the budget reductions in welfare entitlements came from programs for low-income people (Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, 1996). Ironically, middle-class and wealthy Americans also receive "welfare" in the form of tax deductions for home mortgages, corporate and farm subsidies, capital gains tax limits, Social Security, Medicare, and a multitude of other tax benefits. Yet these types of assistance carry no stigma and are rarely considered "welfare" (Goodgame, 1993). Anti-welfare sentiment appears to be related to attitudes about class and widely shared and socially sanctioned stereotypes about the poor. Racism also fuels negative attitudes toward welfare programs (Quadagno, 1994)."
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #47 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Nope. It'll just be that one line he uttered. On repeat. It'll be great! We'll Jeremiah Wright him.

But what is the inference you expect viewers to draw? Come on. You opened this can, tell us. What conclusion should people draw that you think will be to his detriment at the polls?
post #48 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

But what is the inference you expect viewers to draw? Come on. You opened this can, tell us. What conclusion should people draw that you think will be to his detriment at the polls?

I'm an editor. I've edited campaign ads too. The power is in the editing and the footage you book end the quote with.

My point is that Jeremiah Wright said a lot more substantive stuff than just "God damn America". But that didn't stop your side from running with it.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #49 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I'm an editor. I've edited campaign ads too. The power is in the editing and the footage you book end the quote with.

You haven't answered the question. You've simply explained one of the tools of propagandists.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

But that didn't stop your side from running with it.

My side? I didn't have anything to do with any of the coverage of Jeremiah Wright nor did I take the time to delve into what he said or form any opinion on it.
post #50 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

Your source is a right-wing propaganda outlet?

I guess you missed 75% of my original sentence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich I hate all things Fox, Palin, McCain and neo-con... so don't make the mistake of linking Fox with the Tea Parties.


Riiight. Fox had absolutely nothing to do with them. And since when is 5,000 a "spectacular turnout"? 5,000?
post #51 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilsch View Post

And since when is 5,000 a "spectacular turnout"? 5,000?

Exactly. Imagine for a moment if only 5000 showed up for a peace rally after it had been promoted heavily by MSNBC. Fox news would be chortling soda through their nose in laughter and ridicule. Roughly 2000 per state (if you divide the total number by the number of states) showed up to tea-bag each other. That's roughly .08% of the population.

Not spectacular by a long shot.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #52 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

You haven't answered the question. You've simply explained one of the tools of propagandists.

Dude! Proposing a violent secession from the United States is one of the most horrendous proposals imaginable. Anyone remember the Civil Fucking War?

And I think there's some political gold in that statement for Democrats. It won't be the ONLY issue to bring the governor down. But it certainly will be of help.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #53 of 207
Who is advocating violent secession?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #54 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Dude! Proposing a violent secession from the United States is one of the most horrendous proposals imaginable. Anyone remember the Civil Fucking War?

Dude! No one is proposing a violent secession from the United States. But, I agree that the federal government is likely to react violently as it did for the Civil War.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

And I think there's some political gold in that statement for Democrats. It won't be the ONLY issue to bring the governor down. But it certainly will be of help.

Please explain the conclusion people should draw from Perry's statement that would be "political gold" for the Democrats and how it will help in unseating Perry.

Or is it that you don't really care, it will be fine to simply take it out of context, repeat it endlessly and rely upon the ignorance and fears of voters to draw fearful conclusions and therefore vote against him?
post #55 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

Or is it that you don't really care, it will be fine to simply take it out of context, repeat it endlessly and rely upon the ignorance and fears of voters to draw fearful conclusions and therefore vote against him?

I'm a Democrat. I'm a fighting Democrat. I'm also completely fascinated with campaign strategy and political marketing. So, yeah, I don't really care what inference people make of it. If regular common-sense Americans conclude that proposing secession from the states is a terrible idea and an open act of sedition then they can draw that conclusion all on their own.

One thing I know for goddamned sure. Republicans certainly weren't concerned about repeating Jeremiah Wright's words endlessly and relying upon the ignorance and fears of voters, did they? And their marketing tactics worked. Obama's numbers plummeted. He had to struggle to recover, barely.

Sure it's cold and calculated. So what? I'm trying to get Democrats elected. If Democrats say and propose stupid shit. Call them on it. The governor of Texas stepped in it as far as I'm concerned. I don't think he thought it all the way through. And I'm betting the ads will target it heavily.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #56 of 207
The Gov of Texas and Bachman are pathetically trying to find a base, unfortunately all they are doing is legitimizing the ideologies that motivate extremist groups, perhaps because they themselves believe the same ideas - a brief look around the web will find you the most utterly insane conspiracy laden hate that holds the same ideas . . . now those groups, groups that are rightly labeled 'hate groups' can point to the officially dressed politicians and say, 'see its time to rise up'.


And the idea that he is proposing a 'peaceful' secession is the utmost stupid bald-faced denial - secession would never be peaceful - could ever be peaceful, Texas is part of the US - it isn't only the private property of those who live there . . . I'm sure the South in the Civil War would have loved it if the North said simply . .. "oh you want it to be peaceful?! I understand now, its all good."
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #57 of 207
A true indication of a move towards totalitarian government is criminalizing certain thoughts.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #58 of 207
Thread Starter 
I recall from years ago:

If you don't support the war, you are un-Amerikan.

You're either with us or you're against us.


Hmmm.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #59 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

I recall from years ago:

If you don't support the war, you are un-Amerikan.

You're either with us or you're against us.


Hmmm.

It's rude to question one's patriotism just because they oppose the actions of the government.
post #60 of 207
Yep, prime example right there.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #61 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

It's rude to question one's patriotism just because they oppose the actions of the government.

Like during the Iraq invasion?

Or maybe wiretapping?

Or maybe Guantanamo?

Or......
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #62 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Like during the Iraq invasion?

Or maybe wiretapping?

Or maybe Guantanamo?

Or......

The Patriot Act?

Or maybe the "Bailouts"?

Or maybe unfair taxation?

Or...

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #63 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Like during the Iraq invasion?

Or maybe wiretapping?

Or maybe Guantanamo?

Or......

Do you see any qualifiers or limits on my statement?
post #64 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

Do you see any qualifiers or limits on my statement?

Nope but it still doesn't address the question.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #65 of 207
Did he say rude, really?
post #66 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

The Patriot Act?

Or maybe the "Bailouts"?

Or maybe unfair taxation?

Or...

Wow! You're comparing the bailout and taxes with Gitmo and Iraq?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #67 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Nope but it still doesn't address the question.



Yes. It applies in those cases too.
post #68 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I'm an editor. I've edited campaign ads too. The power is in the editing and the footage you book end the quote with.

My point is that Jeremiah Wright said a lot more substantive stuff than just "God damn America". But that didn't stop your side from running with it.

Anyone with half a brain remembers that it was CLINTON that got the Write stuff rolling. It was the LEFT that ran with Jeremiah Wright not the right!


How soon they forget!
post #69 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Did he say rude, really?

Too strong? Too weak? How about repugnant?
post #70 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

A true indication of a move towards totalitarian government is criminalizing certain thoughts.

A sure sign of paranoia is to see 'criminalization' in my post.

And if I am not mistaken, it is possible to go to website after website of hate group after hate group, groups who sound an awful lot like you- and join up. See, I love the US, a country where I can hate my country if want to. - but I happen not to.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #71 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post


Or maybe unfair taxation?

Or...

Aw boohoo!

Cry me a river

Dare to be a part of it.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #72 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfflam View Post

A sure sign of paranoia is to see 'criminalization' in my post.

And if I am not mistaken, it is possible to go to website after website of hate group after hate group, groups who sound an awful lot like you- and join up. See, I love the US, a country where I can hate my country if want to. - but I happen not to.

A sure sign of paranoia is to assume that comment was directed specifically at you.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #73 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

A sure sign of paranoia is to assume that comment was directed specifically at you.

Well to be fair it did come right after his post on that same subject.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #74 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

A true indication of a move towards totalitarian government is criminalizing certain thoughts.

Oh, please. Just stop. Now you just sound silly.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #75 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Anyone with half a brain remembers that it was CLINTON that got the Write stuff rolling. It was the LEFT that ran with Jeremiah Wright not the right!

How soon they forget!

Who are you talking too? What are you referring? Because that's NOT what the conversation was. But that's your classic drive-by posting style so I guess I shouldn't expect anything different.

As if Clinton was the only one to make hey of it. LOL!!! Please. It was a Wright orgy-fest on Fox News and talk radio for MONTHS!!! But whatev.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #76 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Funny you guys had nothing to say about the repugnant anti-war protestors but if some people express their displeasure over spending and tax policy all of a sudden it's worth starting a tread

Considering that one of the main gripes of the anti-war protesters was the huge cost of the operation, in other words a massive government spending spree, these tea partiers display double standards, as well as cluelessness. Oddly, these so-called Conservatives are silent regarding Obama's escalation of the Afghanistan big-government-spending-war folly. Incidentally, why have the throngs of anti-war protesters returned to the woodwork now that BushCorp is (nominally) out of office? Has criticizing Obama (and his Afghanistan policy) become politically incorrect... (on account of his color, perhaps)?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #77 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Oh, please. Just stop. Now you just sound silly.

That makes two of us.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #78 of 207
people don't actually care how much they pay in taxes.

people were paying more under Reagan, and yet we didn't have invective spilling in AstroTurf events across the country.

Why?

Well the reason isn't simply that the public has been duped (though to a large extent it has by both sides of the political spectrum)... It's that when you present someone with a choice between having a certain quality of life and being told services will be cut, you will likely get that someone to admit that they are not willing to deal with the increased burden of a government that does less. However, when you ask someone if they'd like to have lower taxes without any real context or meaning, even the most liberal person will likely say yes. It is a stupid way to frame the argument, in any event. The most important part of these rallies are the calls for increased efficiency, but they fall on the back burner behind lowering taxes, not paying for the welfare of others, not funding liberal causes, not giving the financial sector the grease it needed to stop from freezing, etc etc... bullet point 14502192, if anyone is really counting...

No. The government should not do less. It should do more cheaper. And that is a question of efficiency.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #79 of 207
I find it a bit strange that people keep focusing on present tax rates when most of these protests clearly focus not on the present tax rates but on what future tax rates that will be needed to pay back the massive spending that currently being financed with debt as we speak. (I guess we could call them optimistic in not thinking it will be printed away or defaulted on.)

I don't think the signs saying stop spending my children's, grand children's and great grandchildren's money are really hammering on, and I'm taxed too high right now. Many hit on the bailouts and basically bankrupting the country via the bailouts.

Newt Gingrich made the point most clear this past weekend. The federal government will have spent every dollar it is going to receive this year on April 25th. Every day and dollar after that for the rest of the year is borrowed.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #80 of 207
Newt's point was also valid for all of Bush's term.

The problem isn't deficits. The protesters don't like that there is a Democrat in the White House who has been tasked with fixing the bullshit for the person these same protesters voted into office. Yes, he is doing just that. Yes, he is doing it in a restrained but decidedly liberal manner... If there was a Republican in the White House the deficit would have grown just as much because that is what a virtual unanimous consensus of Economists said was needed. It would have been different, tax cuts primarily, but the deficit, this tickle that these protesters are hypothetically complaining about would have been just as large, and just as real to pay off in the future. But there would not have been an AstroTurf campaign because the guy in the white house would have been their guy...

Hypocrites. And bullshit all around.

People want to fix our problems? They should get their heads out of their asses and stop complaining about what other people are doing to them... If they stopped doing half the stupid shit they do to themselves our economic scenario wouldn't be nearly as dire...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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