Apple responds to Microsoft ads: "a PC is no bargain" - Page 5

Uh.. a lot of machines ship with 64bit Windows now.... so using the 4Gb isn't really a problem.

Doesn't Quicktime function in a similar manner? (serious question?) The PC version requires a PRO copy to do anything useful with it beyond simply playing movies right?

My desktop PC (though nothing impressive) set me back 500 dollars (including a cheap case that has nothing on Apples designs but the power button works and it holds components so I don't care if it looks 'cool' )..

AMD 5000+, 2Gb DDR2, 320Gb Sata II Seagate, 500w PSU, 9800GTX+

Does everything I want and plays all the games I have... for the money I have into it I can afford to upgrade again in a few years if I think I need something more powerful.

The only thing that a PC user has availabe over Mac users (notice I didn't say windows... ) is choice...
If Apple opened up they would probably end up facing the same headaches MS is now but their market share would increase dramatically. I know I would have a copy running on something I own.

I like OSX but like having choices a whole lot more...

I wasn't implying that Mac users are "dumb" I was saying if someone was dumb enough that they couldn't figure out their way around a PC, then yes a Mac might be a better choice, and you know why that is so give me a break. You know damn well I wasn't calling Mac users dumb, that's just you trying to start an argument.

To say "more Mac users have higher education" is opinion not fact, and shows the typical arrogance I see from a LOT of Mac users. In fact, statistically speaking, it's impossible. Doesn't PC have 95% of the market? Correct me if I'm wrong but I've even seen Mac users here say that. If 95% of the market doesn't contain more educated people than 5% then we are in serious trouble folks!


Here's an argument that has holes in it that Apple continues to push: Viruses affect PC's so Windows must not be as good as Mac OS right? Well if PC has 95% of the market, and I'm a virus writer, which platform do you think I'm gonna attack? Which would cause more damage? Is apple really saying their OS is impenetrable!? Highly unlikely.

They completely contradict themselves with the iphone OS. Has anyone here EVER heard of Windows Mobile getting a virus? No. You know why? How many people have a WM phone? Not enough for virus writers to give a damn about. Now look at the iphone. So many people have this phone, and Apple has stated they won't let apps have the same kind of privileges as apps on windows mobile because of the potential for malware and viruses. But wait a second, I thought Apple doesn't make crap operating systems that can be attacked by viruses?

What do you guys think would happen if it was the other way around and Apple had 95% of the market? You don't think there would be AV software for Macs? FFS wake up.

Bottom line: Mac and PC are tools, and different tools have different jobs. Do you use a screw driver to loosen up a bolt? No. It's irritating when both sides attack each other for things that are a far stretch of the truth or downright lies, and it's ESPECIALLY irritating to see Mac USERS or PC users taking sides for stupid illogical reasons.

/rant

A number of you hit on this, and these ads are going right after this too....

You all know why people who have no money and continue to have no money...

They lack the ability/discipline to save money...
They can not objectively determine what is important
They can not objectively determine what has value
They can not objectively determine what has quality

So most people's buying decision goes something like this...

They decide they want/need something, they look at what they have in their wallet/left on the credit limit and look around and see what the least expensive thing they can buy and buy it. They do not care how long it lasts, whether it really does what they need or is worth what they just paid.

So when it finally breaks they go out and do it all over again... Thus got nothing for their money other than instant gratification. It is not unusual for these people to do this over and over again.

How many of you know a person who owns a PC after a year or so when the thing becomes slow for numerous reason or things start to fail go right out and buy another one and replace the old one.

These MS ads are targeting these people and these people are in the majority which none of them are on this discussion.

Personally I tend to save and get exactly what I want and need and will pay extra for quality. With that said, I still use my Titanium Powerbook which is now 8 yrs old running Tiger and works just as good today as when I first bought it. I also have in my house an original Imac 20" Flat Panel which is running Leopard and 2GB upgrade which is 6 yrs old, add to that a Imac G5 running Leopard which is 4 yrs old, and a MacBook which now 2.5 yrs old. Compared to most of my friends who still use PCs, they're are all less then 2 or 3 yrs old because it was cheaper to just go get a new one.

I can tell you I spent far less on my 4 computers which everyone in my house has one, than people who I know who have bought PC's for their house, which they have replace at least 2 or 3 times and bought extras for the family.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, thus the reason PC year over year must get cheaper to buy, it is the death spiral to the bottom.

Uh nope. In the ads the people never hit their desired goals except in only one aspect... cheaper. They never got "better" screens, or better mobility with battery life, and they got the worst OS on the planet; Windows Home edition. Microsoft has moved from selling their OS to pushing cheap crap that has their OS installed on it. If they were really interested in making sure people got the cheapest experience they would shove them into Wal-Mart and have them buy a Linux based system.

Actually there were several studies done that did prove that to be a fact. You are educated enough to know how to do some research right? Try http://google.com if you'd like some help.

And yes, PC's do have 95% of the desktop computer market, most of which belong to IT departments, not individual users. And Windows shares the same market share ONLY because it comes pre-installed on those computers.

And actually, PC's have 90% of the US market share and 95% of the world market share. All that proves is that Apple is doing quite well for themselves with the itsy-bitsy share they have. And when you take into account all the people who actually place any kind of value in their computer purchase and spend a $1000+, 60% of them buy Macs.

My router drops everything I don't ask for and I don't run as a privileged user on either machine I have.

I've got both a macbook and a PC. I don't run anti virus on either.

Dunno about the Sarah Palins, per se, but a true conservative would want a solid investment that pays off over the long term -- like a Mac. It would be the socialist-leaning one that would want to spread the wealth -- to anti-virus companies, repair shops, imitation-iLife sellers -- whether or not the recipients merit it.

Wow a condescending mac user. Never met anyone like you before. Hey let me ask you, doesn't it bother you to be such a stereotype?

Before you go off and make an even bigger jerk out of yourself for absolutely no reason, let me just say I did google it and I've read about 5 different articles so far. Not a single one of them stated there were MORE educated people using Mac than PC. Most of them simply said Mac users were more web savvy, and even one of them said Mac users have better vocabulary in the English language.

Here's a pretty sound theory: Macs are expensive. College graduates on average make more money than non-college graduates so they generally can afford a Mac. SO, I wouldn't debate that your AVERAGE Mac user is smarter than your AVERAGE PC user, but to say that there are MORE educated mac users than PC users really is scary on more levels than you think.

Actually, that's true that I've seen, but if you're trying to have a conversation, telling someone to research your fact for you is a poor debate tactic. If it's really so easy to find this information, you can dig it up yourself too and you should if you're trying to assert something is true.

Unless a "lot" is used in its literal sense -- e.g. "I'll stop by the warehouse to pick up the lot of power supplies I bought." -- it is a colloquial substitution for "many" and should be treated as a plural.

You're absolutely right!! I'm one of them cheap-ass guys who bought a $699 lappy but am very happy with it. Does everything I need, no complaints what-so-ever. I do own a powerbook G4 too but it's getting a bit slow, that's why the upgrade coz I only had $800 to spend.

I disagree. I think Microsoft made the right call in acknowledging that the Macs were cool and desirable... they can't fight that battle, and to concede it up front is smart. The Ad's are not going to sway anyone who truly sees the value of a Mac, they're just going to prune off some people who are "mac curious" but are afraid, and are worried about spending their money on a possible mistake ( which we know wouldn't be true of course )

These are the same audience, that lef tto their own devices would buy the wrong laptop anyway...underpowered, oversized, comes with the free printer... you know the type.

If Vista wasn't enough, nothing will be.

I think your about spot on. Except for one thing. All those free apps, usually open source, are better used on the operating system they were designed on. A close cousin of OS X, Linux.

But if your Microsoft you really don't want to play the "Cheaper is Better" role too hard, because a little penguin may start showing up in your ads making your "State of the Art" Vista/7 look pretty bad. Anyone else notice KDE 4.0 which has been out for for a few years looks a bit more like Windows 7? Ya think MS thought to themselves... "We can't copy Aqua, but this open source stuff looks pretty good and works well, let's copy that instead. It also looks like our 22 year old file system can hold up to it too! DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS (as he chants with his sweaty pits - I know, I was there in 03' it was a laugh, most memorable part of the show)"

That same HP laptop could be sold with Ubuntu for less than $600, Ok Kubuntu and with a few decent open source apps pre-loaded would more than give Microsoft a run for their money.

Oh you want Windows with that? VirtualBox with Vista preloaded, done. Now make an image of the system and distribute (also a free package).

I think finally this is something Mac and PC users can come together and agree on: Open source rocks!

Here's a good read for anyone interested: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Sw...ntu/FromMacOSX

And, you might add, one with a thick skin. He's not going anywhere!

Maybe it's because you were in a rush that you did not have time to google it (or, like wilco, you just did not know), but here are some links, fyi:

http://duckproducts.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_tape_(disambiguation)

I could go on, but this should do.....

Well, yes. I also have a unibody MacBook Pro that I'd say is built pretty darn rock solid. I also have a aluminum iMac that is solid as well. Just because there were some design flaws with one model does not mean the whole company is bad.

It was my WhiteBook that got me to switch from PC to Mac (I'd been building my own PC's since 1996), so it's got a special spot in my heart.

Since when does being the owner the better of two products make that person happier?

I see people everyday smiling as they drive a Prius... I don't even think I need to finish the point here.

What I don't get is that these people are offered $1000 to buy a computer ... if I was given $1000 I'd be looking for a $999.99 computer, and even then I'd try talking the store into giving something free with it. They got a $699 computer, throwing $300 of free money away.

Windows works for some people. It's cheap and they can do what they want to do, or they think that. I've seen people for the sake of a couple of hundred quid give themselves years of Windows and PC related stress. Maybe those were isolated cases, and I know other people didn't have those problems (often because they just bought a new PC two years later to replace their slow broken one), but it does seem to happen more often - you get what you pay for.

My dad got an iMac and since then he has been able to effectively manage his camera photos easily, browse the web safely, and other things. They had a whole series of books on learning Windows, but never got to grips with it on their previous computer.

I am worried that Apple's build quality is going down, and I am also loathe to buy a premium product from a company that isn't willing to back it up with a three year warranty by default.

Almost? Unfortunately it has become a religion.


No, Microsoft is trying to capitalize on Apple's lack of choice. Its hard to compare Apples to Apples when they don't play in a lot of marker segments anymore.


Consultant by trade. I wouldn't say I'm not biases, I'm completely biased, I just arrived when the Mac was a tool, not a religion so I still have the ability to think independently believe that Apple is not above criticism. I don't want to see the Mac be less than it can be due to narrow dogmatic thinking.

I drive a Focus (cries)

Various new posters on Apple enthusiast site: Ha ha! Fan boys! Apple people are stupid and wrong! And I can say that without fear of contradiction, since I own Apple gear!

Other people on site: Fuck off.

VNPOAES: See? See? Typical fan boy thin skin Jobs worshippers! Hilarious! It's sad, is it not, how unwilling the faithful are to hear that they are morons?

Other people on site: No, really, fuck off, noob asshole. Do you have no manners? What is your deal?

VNPOAES: Oh, the fan boy-dom, ha ha! Look at them, scrambling to defend their tattered world. Whereas even-keeled and sensible sorts such as ourselves know that being fair minded and unbiased requires introducing yourself by insulting everyone in your immediate vicinity and noting that any offense taken is proof of stupidity! It's a win-win!

OPOS: Zzzzzzzzzz.......

There may be something to the car analogies after all:

Kia Motors America, Microsoft Team Up for Dynamic Video Game Marketing Effort

Apple is enjoying 'healthy profits' is an affirmation of Microsoft's claim that it is overpriced, not a rebuttal.

Apple has given Microsoft a 20 year head start, and it is still too stupid to lower its price.

Imagine if a Mac had cost less than Windows for the last twenty years!

Think Different my ass. Apple is a great engineering company, but Jobs is a typical greedy pig. That is why there is no dealer network. And his abuse of vendors and employees is well known. Being 'cool' isn't the best way to win customers. Be nice, fair, and honest instead.

Some day Apple will choke on the high overhead of the Apple Stores, and they won't know what to do. They won't be able to raise the prices without decreasing sales more, but they have no outlet if they close the stores.

What they should do is drop their prices significantly. The Apple Tax is real, just like the Sucky Tax is real if you buy Windows.

Apple has a tremendous advantage that they are wasting, again. The Apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

I think Microsoft's usage of the HP notebook was a bad example; but we can all agree that macs are still significantly more expensive, when talking hardware only, than a comparable "pc" (though a Macbook Pro is a pretty pc built by Quanta Computer, the same company that builds Dells, hp's etc).

A better comparison would be an ASUS G71 17" series. This system kills the Macbook pro on specs, except on battery life. I agree that the HP wasn't a fair comparison because it has a slower cpu and a far worse GPU.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834220511

Let's see for $500 less I get....

TWO 320GB 7,200 RPM hard drives. I can always take one out if I want to and it doesn't require removing 25 screws, only two screws. ASUS has an onboard RAID controller as well in this machine.

Easy to replace components

NON SOLDERED processor

USER REPLACEABLE BATTERY

GeForce 9800M, which is significantly faster than the 9600M found in the Macbook Pro. Check GPU review or Toms Hardware for comparisons.

BD-ROM/DVD+/- drive. Apple has yet to officially support BD playback (even though their GPU's and hardware are HDCP compliant), though with Toast you can burn BD-R's.

1920 x 1200 resolution, LED Backlit screen (glossy)

Expresscard/54 slot, not a /34 like the Macbook Pro (54 slots are a little nicer, they accommodate more card types due to the bigger width)

Two year warranty, including one year of accidental damage, including spills and water damage. Their LCD warranty is for ONE dead pixel. ONE bad pixel, and then you get a NEW LCD.

eSATA interface. Come on Apple! eSATA is FAR better than firewire 800 in many ways and is CHEAP to add to the machine.

You can find other ASUS laptops on newegg.com with lower specs that about match the Macbook Pro's 17" version. Some other machines with similar specs:

ASUS M70 (two 320GB 7,200 drives, GeForce 9650, eSata, BD $1899)
ASUS M70 (same machine, only 1 320GB drive, no BD, $1499)

Both the M70's come with the same screen as the G71. The low end M70 is very similar in spec to the Macbook Pro and is $1200 cheaper. I don't think Apple can really say that ASUS makes piece of crap laptops because ASUS IS THE OEM FOR APPLE'S MACBOOKS and many of their other hardware components.

I hope EFI-X can get a dongle to work on laptops soon. When that happens then I will get the same benefits as I have on my home brew Mac with a giga-byte board and a Intel Core2Quad. Apple's hardware is way too expensive.

Yep. Ever since greedy pig Jobs returned to Apple they've totally fallen apart. From the brink of bankruptcy to humming along, with the best market share they've had since the heyday of the original Mac. Fucking disaster.

And those stores? What a blunder! I'm sure they regret the, um, someday reckoning of not being able to adjust the business model, or something.

Damn you, greedy pig Jobs, and your fantastically well executed turnaround!

Here's what I see with your post: "I want a place where everyone thinks the same, says the same stuff, tells each other how great they are for what they're thinking, and anyone who voices an opinion opposite to ours should leave for good."

You know who else thought like that? The Nazis. Please learn from the past and don't send the PC users off to ghetto parts of the internet


Yeah it is pretty amazing what he's done for the company. When you look at their stock history you can see shortly after his return how it sky rocketed. I don't think anyone can correctly debate that his return has had a positive effect on the company.

But here's the thing: He didn't bring the company back with their computers. He brought them back with the ipod didn't he? Eventually the iphone and ipod touch sealed the deal and sent them into record profits. We're talking about their computers here now though. I don't remember there being a large demand for Apple laptops ever since Jobs returned.

You can't think in terms of sheer volume with Apple. The profit margins on the computers are considerable.

Also:

Apple selling 22 iPhones, 28 Macs per store each day

I think its very reasonable to say that Apple's computer business has only improved since Jobs' return and has indeed contributed significantly to the overall success of Apple.

You have no idea what you are talking about....

The reason apple cost more is because the demand a higher quality product from their supplies thus the reason they beat up the suppliers, it not about price they do not pay the lowest price in the industry in some case highest, however they are insure higher quality. I speak from personal experience on this matter.

Next Jobs, does require people who are around him to preform at the highest level and does not except excuses or incompetence. So the people who complain about how he treats people usually fall into this group. These are exception to this where he and other fundamentally disagree, but you have to admit he has good track record verses those who have complained.

Oh, there was time when Apple sold low cost Mac and it hurt their business because quality suffered and people did not buy then anyway. People who by macs tend to buy higher end, they not bargain hunters.

Apple Stores also server as a valuable tool, it allows people to experience the mac the way Apple wants them to experience them. Apple has learned if you go the normal channels it is all about price and what incentives one company is paying to get their product sold. Why when you go into Best Buy the sales guy is always pointing you to another product or tell you someone else product have issue. I remember walk into CompUSA when they still sold mac and have sales people try and tell me that Macs had all sort of problems and was not worth the money.

Also, Apple stores are highly profitable and if it was not they would shut it down. Everyone of their stores I have been in were always packed with people. They are doing exactly what Apple wants them to do, bring people in and let them experience how a Mac works.

This is true and I know more people who said they bought Macs as an ipod accessory. Who goes out and buys few hundred $ device and then goes and buys a $1000 computer to support the device. People had such a positive experience with the iPod it translated in to Mac sales

I love Macs, own everything Apple makes, and loath M$oft.

But one thing that bugged the hell out of the defence offered of Macs in the article was the claim to 8 hour battery life in MBPs. That is ridiculous. I have owned 2 of them, including the latest model, and I am lucky to get more than two hours of battery power from my machine.

Eight hours is patent nonsense and shouldn't be used as a way of defending what is otherwise a great piece of hardware.

Exactly. If someone liked their ipod so much, and the purchase experience at the apple store was a good one, why wouldn't they go back and peruse the laptops? Perhaps it's the apple stores that opened up that should be credited for Apple's comeback actually.

Either way I just remember back when the ipod came out it was something everyone wanted and ended up getting, and that's really when I noticed more people using macs as laptops.

I'm glad Apple is doing good with their products because it can only drive competition.

Really? You're going with "the Nazis"? MIght I direct your attention to Godwins's Law?

Try this: coming onto a site with a particular focus and telling the people posting there that they're stupid, blind, and credulous, then dismissing any resistance to that idea as being further evidence of hopeless fanboyism is more generally called "being an asshole."

Not being able to tell the difference between that and demanding absolute conformity, in the style of a fascist dictator, suggests that your ideas about this are insanely disproportionate, at best. At worst, you're just a fucknuts with an axe to grind, but I chose to be charitable.

Apparently, the idea is that we can all get along as long as Mac users agree that they're kind of dumb and that Apple, for all its achievements, actually kinda sucks. In other words, I'm allowed to be an Apple enthusiast as long as I spend most of my time detailing all the ways that their products aren't very good, or at least humbling keeping my mouth shut when my betters explain it to me.

And yet, surprisingly, I generally enjoy the Apple products I use, have chosen them over other products, all the while being mysteriously aware of the stuff that I don't like and being perfectly willing to mention same, when it comes up. What I don't do is smugly belittle anyone who disagrees by calling them fanboys or droning on about how Mac users can't stand any criticism whatsoever, which is such a grindingly stupid strawman it makes baby jesus throw himself out the nearest window.

First of all, I love playing Cop and reporting those who behave poorly. Second, I don't love Apple, Dell or Microsoft. They are all necessary evils. I like Virtual Box and Ubuntu, but they can become more trouble than they are worth sometimes. When my step-dad passed, he left me with a little jingle and it is the only way I could have purchased my iMac. Like so many others, cheap is good. Why spend buckets of money on something that will be outdated in just a few years. Granted, the Mac lasts much longer than the other guys. If I wanted to get an old "original" iMac Bondi Blue, I could. But what can it do? Apple is just as bad as Microsoft. They both increase the power of their respective OSes, only to alienate the older boxes. Apple seems to be ready to dismiss all those non-Intel boxes with their new Snow Kitty. So, just like iPods, iPhones, and all the other junk we just have to have with chips inside, why spend three grand on something that will end up a doorstop? Unlike the other guys, Apple does not have a sweet spot, that best bang for the buck price. What is making the netbook so successful, is you can get a sort of real computer for the price of an iPod Touch. I love Ubuntu, as hard as it is to understand, cuz its free. It does just about everything one could immediately want in an OS. Can get ugly when you want something that didn't come with it. I may purchase another Mac, but never a notebook. I can't even see the text on the Macbook. That is why I have my iMac. But I won't buy another one. I won't spend more money than a mini. And I will regret paying Apple for the extra RAM, but I don't have the Ph.D. required to open the box and do it myself. I live in CA and EVERYTHING is costing more. The mini is kinda fairly priced, but nothing else. If I ever want a notebook, I will have no choice but to go to the other guys.

Or that PC OEMs reliance on Microsoft have left them with a poor business model that neither leads to good products or profits. Because of Windows ubiquity, they have very little to distinguish their products other than price. Because of this it is very tempting to cut costs by cutting quality. Of course Sony and others have tried to make PCs into luxury items with their VAIO range, but due to the lack of real differentiation, the market hasn't really rewarded this strategy. Margins are really thin and many OEMs are struggling. The general PC market mainly benefits Microsoft, no one else. HP is No. 1, but they have significant and substantial other areas of interests to help profits.

Apple can stubbornly refuse to compromise on quality and still afford themselves generous profit margins. I have no care about Apple's profits (aside from the fact a healthy Apple is good for the Mac platform and technology generally (Apple have x2 their R&D budget this year)) but I do care about the quality part.


Whenever Apple introduce a new product we're always told how it sucks. Normally when held up in the cold light of day and compared to the best efforts of Apple's competitors it turns out that in most cases Apple's products are fairly decent and in many cases best in class.

Watching the iPhone written off by every hack going and then watching the same hacks clamour and stumble to explain its run-away success has been hilarious.

And who remembers how roundly criticised at launch the MacBook Air was, often by PC users and pundits who suggested buying a “real” computer instead and bemoaned Apple's obsessiveness with thinness. Then, over a year later, Dell's contribution to the market is heavier, has a bigger footprint, less powerful, runs every bit as hot as the first Air and in almost every way an inferior product.


I'd wait for delivery first:
- Windows 7 runs better on the same hardware than Vista
- PowerPC support is being sacrificed to make Snow Leopard run better and faster on every intel Mac every produced than Leopard

Wow that's funny. The Nazi reference was more or less a light hearted joke but it's hilarious you got so butthurt over it. Your post was doing exactly what I said. All you want is a bunch of people around who agree with you and don't offer any sort of opposing opinion on anything and anyone who does should leave. Also, apparently anyone who does is suddenly fighting you. Jeesh.

I'm sorry that my PC brethren have offended you, but I haven't come on here doing the things you're saying I did specifically so why don't you read people's posts before attacking them like that. I'd say that's being an asshole and a fucknut, so cram it with walnuts.

I've never seen anyone rage so hard on the internet. It's clear you're simply here to argue with people.

Oh, the irony.