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Apple responds to Microsoft ads: "a PC is no bargain" - Page 7

post #241 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by harleighquinn View Post

I am an avid Mac user. Have been for years, went the way of the pc for a moment and now back to Mac.

That having been said, I have to say this report is an interesting manufactured propaganda to counter an equally not well manufactured propaganda.

Yes, there may be proof the MS/HP ads are faked, but take into account people are stupid and not everyone reads apple insider or even follow the links from google news, so MS/HP are only providing the additional justification for the uninformed whom cannot pay the premium Macs are retailed at.

To be honest, if my wife didn't have a computer purchase plan are her place of employment, we wouldn't have our 24 inch 2.8 Ghz iMac extreme, that came out just before the 3.0 Ghz update.

So MS/HP have done something that is underhanded.

So what?

It's to be expected. If you make a substandard product but want it bought you put more into advertising it than making a better product.

BOSE anyone?

All of that not withstanding, Apple makes mistakes too, so lets not all be fanboys.

Example: Why do none of the Macs come equipped with an HDMI port? Because Apple wants us to use their proprietary Mini Display port? What is that? A DVI port with a different connector?

it doesn't transmit sound, and neither does the DVI. What? Use the headphone jack? What about surround sound?

What's the point of digital surround without the ability to listen on it with anything other than headphones? What's the point of all those HD downloads in iTunes if you can't fully experience them? Most Flat panel televisions come with a PC serial port. That can't be utilized with a Mac. With ANY Mac, except maybe the Pro.

That's sort of like castrating your customers, isn't it?

Most PCs are now equipped with HDMI out of the box as a standard peripheral now, so why not the Macs?

Now, before anyone says it, I know the answer: Buy an apple TV.

But that's about as shady and underhanded as MS/HP, isn't it?

My point is mud will be slung by both parties, about as freely as they were in the last election, and in the end it will mean nothing as its all just a show. People will still by Macs because they can afford them and wonder why people agonize over windows and PCs.

People will still buy PCs because they're cheap and sneer at us "ELITISTS" who can afford to buy Macs.

Ultra geeks will still buy and build their boxes and run many flavors of LINUX on them.

And ALL of these people will still buy or salivate over iPods or iPhones, and connect them to their Macs, PCs, or work Macs or PCs.

And Ultimately NONE of this will get Matroska files to run on my PS3, because Sony knows THAT WILL CUT INTO BLU-RAY SALES.

Sorta gettin' the picture now?

Every Mac does optical out on the headphone port with the right connector, so you needn't worry about getting surround out to your system.

I guess by "serial connector" you mean VGA? Any Mac can connect to a VGA port with a cheap adapter. Although I'm not sure why I'd ever want to use it, since it's just there to accommodate all those legacy PCs with no other options, and anyone who has a machine with a more up to date video out (including every Mac) would use the HDMI or DVI for the improved image quality.

HDMI would be slightly tidier, but it's not as if Macs are hopelessly crippled in this respect.
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post #242 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by harleighquinn View Post

Example: Why do none of the Macs come equipped with an HDMI port? Because Apple wants us to use their proprietary Mini Display port? What is that? A DVI port with a different connector?

I'm not sure if these are serious questions or if you are answering them as you are going along, but the answers are that HDMI is a standard for home theater, not computer systems. That Mini DisplayPort is something that Apple invented and that is free and open source like DisplayPort, which is backwards compatible with DVI, HDMI, and analgoue outputs. That it is the same single connector for all of Apple's Macs, which is a very good thing for the consumer. That it is not just DVI with a different connector as it has far superior bandwidth to any DVI or HDMI. It's the future of computing and will probably find its way onto home theater devices, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_DisplayPort
Quote:
it doesn't transmit sound, and neither does the DVI. What? Use the headphone jack? What about surround sound? What's the point of digital surround without the ability to listen on it with anything other than headphones?

The spec has the capability and will probably get it later when it becomes more established. It's still pretty new. The headphone jack don't have to use only headphones, you can plug in speakers, too.

Quote:
Most Flat panel televisions come with a PC serial port. That can't be utilized with a Mac. With ANY Mac, except maybe the Pro.

Are you referring to VGA? Do you realize how out of date and lacking VGA is? If not, go to Wikipedia and read up on it.
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post #243 of 358
It's kind of interesting the number of new posters we've been getting lately who lead off by declaring themselves big Mac fans and follow-up by talking like people who have never used a Mac in their life-- whose only awareness of the platform, in fact, is based on standard issue PC partisan internet nonsense.

I would be like me going over to a PC forum and saying "I have only ever used PCs and mostly like them but, gosh! I get so tired of having to edit the registry all the time, and, um, the blue screen of death, a lot!"
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post #244 of 358
Who's in charge of the ads?

Bogusky? Hmmm.
post #245 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

It's kind of interesting the number of new posters we've been getting lately who lead off by declaring themselves big Mac fans and follow-up by talking like people who have never used a Mac in their life-- whose only awareness of the platform, in fact, is based on standard issue PC partisan internet nonsense.

I would be like me going over to a PC forum and saying "I have only ever used PCs and mostly like them but, gosh! I get so tired of having to edit the registry all the time, and, um, the blue screen of death, a lot!"

Longtime Mac user, short time lurker. I just wanted to add my two cents.

Don't get me wrong, I like how pretty Macs are.

I like how the operating system has lots of spiffy little animations and when you double click on a title bar it minimizes the window.

I love that I can drag a window off the screen and never see it again.

But what's with not being able to use our fingernails on the touch pad on the laptops?

Sure, its cool that it's responding to my finger's electricity, but I wear gloves, a LOT.

Anyways, I know everyone will understand where I'm coming from.

I'm going to go spend the next few months posting mindless idiotic nonsense, proving that I'm the biggest apple loyalist here, and build my post count up so that everyone takes everything I say seriously.

Thanks for your time.
post #246 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

Longtime Mac user, short time lurker. I just wanted to add my two cents.

Don't get me wrong, I like how pretty Macs are.

I like how the operating system has lots of spiffy little animations and when you double click on a title bar it minimizes the window.

I love that I can drag a window off the screen and never see it again.

But what's with not being able to use our fingernails on the touch pad on the laptops?

Sure, its cool that it's responding to my finger's electricity, but I wear gloves, a LOT.

Anyways, I know everyone will understand where I'm coming from.

I'm going to go spend the next few months posting mindless idiotic nonsense, proving that I'm the biggest apple loyalist here, and build my post count up so that everyone takes everything I say seriously.

Thanks for your time.

That's the spirit!
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post #247 of 358
A recent switcher to apple (the iPhone converted me when I got it in Nov 08) I have to say its a massive initial outlay for a student like myself, however it is cheaper in the long run. I am in my final year of a computing degree and I have to admit. I really like OSX. Fast, simple, self maintaining. The biggest cost of ANY computer is YOUR time. Be that waiting for it to turn on or, respond to a command. Then there is all the software to get it to do what you want. There is loads of free software for both Windows and Apple. But I find that the apple software is usually cheaper than the purchased version for windows, or the free version has less "crap" bundled with it, I really dont want to install Yahoo toolbar for IE when I install my accounting software! etc Also I have to say www.softwareforstudents.co.uk is GREAT for any student, parent etc needing office for PC or mac as well as photoshop etc. It is legit and cheap. Hopefully the link might help a few poor students/parents supporting students out as well.
post #248 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

It's kind of interesting the number of new posters we've been getting lately who lead off by declaring themselves big Mac fans and follow-up by talking like people who have never used a Mac in their life-- whose only awareness of the platform, in fact, is based on standard issue PC partisan internet nonsense.

I would be like me going over to a PC forum and saying "I have only ever used PCs and mostly like them but, gosh! I get so tired of having to edit the registry all the time, and, um, the blue screen of death, a lot!"

Honestly, I've lurked for years and apple insider's reports majorly influences our Mac purchases.

Even posted before but couldn't remember which email it was under, so had to make a new login.

It's rare that I feel the need to post, but every once in a while I see the derision that occurs and wonder why no one can see the obvious and feel the need to post to try to place some sanity in the boards.

I'm aware that HDMI is a home theater standard, but it's also progressive so it has not reached it's max bandwidth yet. It's a consolidated format, so it would make more sense that it be used to eliminate the multitude of display and audio ports on the back and sides of the macs (Except maybe the iMac, like mine. I can see the point of a headphone port....)

As for the mini display port, if it has the ability to transmit sound, then honestly that should have happened immediately, if for no other reason than to differentiate it from the DVI port. As it stands now it just looks like the MDP is just a DVI port with a different adapter that makes it seem like apple did no engineering to create this standard.

As for being able to use the headphone for optical, I understand it can do that, but with as many cables that come out of a computer, adding another is sort of frustrating rather than consolidating to one cable that can transmit both, which would be welcome.

And that is from someone who has been dealing with PCs since cassette deck tapes were used as the defacto storage medium and programming was old school basic. I was in second grade when that was happening......

Also, the point of my post, was to point out that all parties create some new proprietary flavor of the month that is supposed to be so much better but usually drops the ball somewhere, while something else out there shows the shortfall, all in the name of keeping away or not acknowledging a threat to their dominance (why else would I mention Matroska and the PS3?)

The point is the companies live in a pseudo reality that relies on their loyalists to be blind to everything else out there.

Sort of like political parties.......

Advertising and marketing has been around for centuries and psychology has come into play with this for the same amount of time with a major focus in the psychology occurring in the 60's. We have been marketed to and advertised to our entire lives, but we have never recognized that.

There are entire companies that have used this to focus and learn how to manipulate and control the behavior of us, the consuming masses, whom, if we broke away from it and looked from the outside in, could actually change the direction of everything.

But that would take effort and people are lazy.

So when a lurker posts, FINALLY, and isn't derisive in any way, wouldn't it be best to be constructive rather than tongue in cheek insulting?
post #249 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by harleighquinn View Post

Honestly, I've lurked for years and apple insider's reports majorly influences our Mac purchases.

Even posted before but couldn't remember which email it was under, so had to make a new login.

It's rare that I feel the need to post, but every once in a while I see the derision that occurs and wonder why no one can see the obvious and feel the need to post to try to place some sanity in the boards.

I'm aware that HDMI is a home theater standard, but it's also progressive so it has not reached it's max bandwidth yet. It's a consolidated format, so it would make more sense that it be used to eliminate the multitude of display and audio ports on the back and sides of the macs (Except maybe the iMac, like mine. I can see the point of a headphone port....)

As for the mini display port, if it has the ability to transmit sound, then honestly that should have happened immediately, if for no other reason than to differentiate it from the DVI port. As it stands now it just looks like the MDP is just a DVI port with a different adapter that makes it seem like apple did no engineering to create this standard.

As for being able to use the headphone for optical, I understand it can do that, but with as many cables that come out of a computer, adding another is sort of frustrating rather than consolidating to one cable that can transmit both would be welcome.

And that is from someone who has been dealing with PCs since cassette deck tapes were used as the defacto storage medium and programming was old school basic. I was in second grade when that was happening......

Very well put and well reasoned response.
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post #250 of 358
I can't believe the arrogance of Windows lovers who are somehow threatened by the Mac and it's 5% market share. Why are they so concerned about what we spend on our computers? Surely they have better things to do like defrag their hard disk or install an anti-virus update.

I used PCs for 10 years before I switched to Macs for my business, and I can tell you from my experience that in the long run the Macs are less expensive to operate and maintain than PCs. With PCs we had to upgrade hardware and software far more frequently which required a lot more time maintaining them. We got 2-3 years from mid-range Dell PCs while we get 5-6 years from our Macs which don't require nearly as much servicing. Cost-wise, a PC comparable to a Mac is not much cheaper at all.

I think the Windows lovers are just jealous and feel the need to defend a crap OS that requires the most powerful hardware just to run smoothly. They overlook the one thing these MS ads ignore for a good reason: OSX.
post #251 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Very well put and well reasoned response.

Thank you.

I have since edited my response but feel I may have now "Jumped the shark", so to speak.

Please take a look at it, as I want to avoid the error of a long winded response that loses it's purpose.

I would really appreciate your opinion on this.

Thanks again......
post #252 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

I can't believe the arrogance of Windows lovers who are somehow threatened by the Mac and it's 5% market share. Why are they so concerned about what we spend on our computers? Surely they have better things to do like defrag their hard disk or install an anti-virus update.

The irony! Arrogance of Windows lovers? No "Windows lover" cares what you spend your money on (except Bill Gates lol.) What they care about is basically being told they are morons because they don't spend their money the same way as you do. You want to talk about arrogance? There is far more arrogance coming from "Apple lovers." Even as you write your comment you still can't seem to avoid talking about defragmenting and anti virus software as if these are key points in a discussion like this. Defragging is not that big of a deal these days. Hard disk capacity is generally much greater now than a few years ago. With more free space available, the file system doesn't need to fill up every "nook and cranny." As far as anti virus? People like you truly believe the almighty Apple has created an operating system impenetrable to viruses. That's absolutely hilarious. And you have the nuts to sit here and talk about arrogance. Give Apple 95% of the market and tell me if within that year anti virus software for Macs wouldn't be the norm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

I used PCs for 10 years before I switched to Macs for my business, and I can tell you from my experience that in the long run the Macs are less expensive to operate and maintain than PCs. With PCs we had to upgrade hardware and software far more frequently which required a lot more time maintaining them. We got 2-3 years from mid-range Dell PCs while we get 5-6 years from our Macs which don't require nearly as much servicing. Cost-wise, a PC comparable to a Mac is not much cheaper at all.

This was just a fuck up on your part. Just because new versions of software or hardware come out doesn't mean you NEED to upgrade to them. I've got systems running XP and Office 2000 that work just fine, and if I ran a business, they would still do their job. In fact, people can run their businesses out of their phones. You're the type of fool who buys things because he's told to, and that's where you fucked up. But being the arrogant jackass you are, you place blame somewhere else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

I think the Windows lovers are just jealous and feel the need to defend a crap OS that requires the most powerful hardware just to run smoothly. They overlook the one thing these MS ads ignore for a good reason: OSX.

Again, you're wrong. XP can be ran on very basic hardware. Heck I've even seen people load XP onto phones. Now, if you ask me (a PC lover) I'd tell you what most informed geeks have to say about Vista: There's no need to upgrade to it, but if you do, it's not as bad as rumors say it is. The main thing that affects PC performance the most is RAM. With ram being cheaper these days, it's not that big a deal. Macs have always had more ram and have always required more ram to run smoothly.

Please inform yourself before you represent a side of an argument. You're only making things worse for anyone who has any rational thought on the matter.
post #253 of 358
macs work, its an integrated universe, i'm pleased easy to use, no virus, family and business friendly and did i say works, low IT costs and works, pc's have a 25% return rate last i checked for non function, well using a cheapo computer (in terms of ability not price) will only frustrate the buyer, i wonder if those "pc buyers" returned the product for an upgrade.
with a mac the only upgrade i've done (after the first year of use was ram)
pc model mystery hurts consumers

did any one wonder why they chose the 17inch to "product search" those that need the 17 are a select subgroup, and video , music composition , web design is high on the list, i wonder why they didn't ask the "buyer" what were their computer needs, so anyone wonder why getting a 17 was the target for MS? ask most 17 buyers would the specs work for them, not really
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post #254 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

The irony! Arrogance of Windows lovers? No "Windows lover" cares what you spend your money on (except Bill Gates lol.) What they care about is basically being told they are morons because they don't spend their money the same way as you do. You want to talk about arrogance? There is far more arrogance coming from "Apple lovers." Even as you write your comment you still can't seem to avoid talking about defragmenting and anti virus software as if these are key points in a discussion like this. Defragging is not that big of a deal these days. Hard disk capacity is generally much greater now than a few years ago. With more free space available, the file system doesn't need to fill up every "nook and cranny." As far as anti virus? People like you truly believe the almighty Apple has created an operating system impenetrable to viruses. That's absolutely hilarious. And you have the nuts to sit here and talk about arrogance. Give Apple 95% of the market and tell me if within that year anti virus software for Macs wouldn't be the norm.

This was just a fuck up on your part. Just because new versions of software or hardware come out doesn't mean you NEED to upgrade to them. I've got systems running XP and Office 2000 that work just fine, and if I ran a business, they would still do their job. In fact, people can run their businesses out of their phones. You're the type of fool who buys things because he's told to, and that's where you fucked up. But being the arrogant jackass you are, you place blame somewhere else.


Again, you're wrong. XP can be ran on very basic hardware. Heck I've even seen people load XP onto phones. Now, if you ask me (a PC lover) I'd tell you what most informed geeks have to say about Vista: There's no need to upgrade to it, but if you do, it's not as bad as rumors say it is. The main thing that affects PC performance the most is RAM. With ram being cheaper these days, it's not that big a deal. Macs have always had more ram and have always required more ram to run smoothly.

Please inform yourself before you represent a side of an argument. You're only making things worse for anyone who has any rational thought on the matter.

Thank you for proving all of my points, especially about Windows users being arrogant. I might also add that your post was rude and obnoxious, too.
post #255 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

Thank you for proving all of my points, especially about Windows users being arrogant. I might also add that your post was rude and obnoxious, too.


xp is the end of the line in many respects, business don't want to upgrade to vista or W7
netbooks need xp, linux or android so why pay big $$$ and the IT investment to uprade MS knows this and scares them to no end.
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post #256 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by harleighquinn View Post

I'm aware that HDMI is a home theater standard, but it's also progressive so it has not reached it's max bandwidth yet. It's a consolidated format, so it would make more sense that it be used to eliminate the multitude of display and audio ports on the back and sides of the macs (Except maybe the iMac, like mine. I can see the point of a headphone port....)

If you aware that it was designed for Home Theaters then why suggest that it should be used for connecting to computer monitors. And just because the limit of the standard hasn't been reached in one form should Apple adopt it for the foreseeable future? Especially when it costs money and Vesa's DisplayPort is completely free and superior in bandwidth, backwards compatible with HDMI and DVI. And most importantly to me, it's a very future-forward video-out spec that will be consistent across every single Mac desktop and notebook from the MacMini to the MBA to the Mac Pro and even the Xserve. When was the last time Apple had that? And with an open and free standard, nonetheless.

THis headphone jack is really an audio-out jack, as I mentioned before. it's not just for headphones. It's analog and digital. On top of that, it's also a mic in on all the new Macs.

Quote:
As for the mini display port, if it has the ability to transmit sound, then honestly that should have happened immediately, if for no other reason than to differentiate it from the DVI port. As it stands now it just looks like the MDP is just a DVI port with a different adapter that makes it seem like apple did no engineering to create this standard.

The spec doesn't seem complete for sound yet, but it's coming. That doesn't mean that Apple will support it, but I don't see why they wouldn't. This claim that it's differentiated from DVI makes no sense. It's very different! Except for the audio and smaller connecter, HDMI and DVI are nearly identical in many ways. DP or mDP is very different from them both yet will output to an HDMI or DVI monitor you wish. Again, I gave you a link that explained the connector and Apple did not create DP, Vesa did. All Apple did was make the DP connector smaller so that every one it's Macs can have the same jack. Vesa adopted it as part of the spec and it too is free.

Quote:
As for being able to use the headphone for optical, I understand it can do that, but with as many cables that come out of a computer, adding another is sort of frustrating rather than consolidating to one cable that can transmit both, which would be welcome.

How many computer monitors have speakers in them? If you are suggesting that an HDTV is an ideal choice for a computer monitor that will be a hard argument to make. They are larger and with much lower resolution so their pixels are considerably larger. Having an extra cable at this point isn't that big of deal. What would be a big deal is Apple dropping a true a computer connection that is emerging for one that wasn't designed for computers and won't run their 30" monitors at higher refresh rates. What happens if Apple releases a larger monitor and/or a monitor with a higher ppi? What about some shops that need the longer cable lengths?

Quote:
And that is from someone who has been dealing with PCs since cassette deck tapes were used as the defacto storage medium and programming was old school basic.

Which explains why you sugegsted that Macs have a Serial port!?!?! I hope that was just a mistake.

Quote:
Also, the point of my post, was to point out that all parties create some new proprietary flavor of the month that is supposed to be so much better but usually drops the ball somewhere, while something else out there shows the shortfall, all in the name of keeping away or not acknowledging a threat to their dominance (why else would I mention Matroska and the PS3?)

Again, it is not proprietary in any way, so please stop stating that it is. It's free, it's smaller, it is more future forward, it supports more bandwidth, it's for computers and it's not some "flavor of the month". This is the connector you're going to see on all Macs, and any decent non-Mac PC soon enough, for a long time to come in the computer world. This is a great thing that is happening. Your argument is akin to Apple adding USB1.0 and removing Parallel and Serial ports. They weren't the first to add USB or DP, but they are the first to adopt it across the board.
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post #257 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by harleighquinn View Post

Thank you.

I have since edited my response but feel I may have now "Jumped the shark", so to speak.

Please take a look at it, as I want to avoid the error of a long winded response that loses it's purpose.

I would really appreciate your opinion on this.

Thanks again......

Reread your post, not sure if the bit about not having at lurkers was in there at first, but:

I truly apologize for snapping at you, in my defense I'll just say that as of late the boards have been kind of overrun by a particular kind of poster I've described elsewhere.

Suffice to say this is the type of person who has no reason to be there beyond feeling smug and superior to "Mac people", and who have nothing to add to the conversation beyond mockery and snark.

I've been a member of this community for quite a while, and there has definitely been a tonal shift, based on the shear number of the sort I describe above. If I sound defensive, it's simply because what once were spirited debates rooted in a general appreciation for the platform have come to seem more like the comments section on, say, Engadget, where any mention of any perceived advantage to being a Mac user is meant with withering scorn and derision.

Noticing and reacting to this trend are very different things from demanding mindless group think, or not being able to tolerate "criticism", since it goes right past platforms or computers or tech and gets into how communities are comprised and what sorts of people participate. My irritation is based on that, not on some misguided loyalty to a corporation.

If there was a cafe where I hung out with people I liked and we shot the breeze about stuff we liked, and a bunch of people started coming around who made it clear that they thought we were kinda stupid and wrong and kept interrupting our conversations with belittling remarks to that effect, would anyone decide that our lack of enthusiasm for that kind of behavior meant we were unduly thin skinned? Or would it seem like the new group were pretty much dicks, and leave one to wonder why they didn't have anything better to do?

Having said all that (and I've said it a couple of times now in a couple of ways, so I guess I'll just leave it at that), I actually agree that what Apple has done with MDP is kinda a pain in the ass, at the moment. I get that a compact, royalty free connector works for them, but, as you say, it might have been nice is they (or somebody) had worked out the audio spec before they shipped the new hardware.

OTOH, the DP spec does have some real advantages-- longer cables, potential additional data paths, "direct drive" monitors that drop some of the legacy control signaling.

Hopefully (and even probably, given quite a few computer hardware manufacturers have signed onto the DP spec), we'll see more and more stuff (particular monitors, which Dell is already doing) with DP, and the perceived "Apple being proprietary" vibe will fade away, just as it did when Apple dropped legacy ports in favor of USB. If not...... well, it wouldn't be Apple if they weren't fucking around with their monitor connections.

Again, I'm always happy to respond to thoughtful posts from thoughtful people, and I very much appreciate you taking the time to speak to your concerns. I hope you post more, and forgive my rude welcome.

For my part, I'll try to dial back my "policeman" mood a bit, and not jump on anyone that sounds like they're yet another member of the peanut gallery.

But I'll also say that I'll continue to respond to PC triumphalists with nothing better to do than piss in our little pond by basically suggest they fuck off, because I don't much like bullies and I don't much like douchebags, and I think most folks would agree that lately we have far to many of both.
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post #258 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

xp is the end of the line in many respects, business don't want to upgrade to vista or W7
netbooks need xp, linux or android so why pay big $$$ and the IT investment to uprade MS knows this and scares them to no end.

Win7 has been made to run on netbooks well, apparently. This means that MS will stop licensing WinXP and start pushing Win7 instead. I also know of companies that are still on WinXO that will be moving to Win7 shortly after its release. MS has done well this time around.
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post #259 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Win7 has been made to run on netbooks well, apparently. This means that MS will stop licensing WinXP and start pushing Win7 instead. I also know of companies that are still on WinXO that will be moving to Win7 shortly after its release. MS has done well this time around.

True that, though, many will put a good fight to keep XP as long as they can.

Thing is - for average business user (which 95+% of most companies workforce is) XP, while not as flashy as Vista/7, is providing everything they need. Considering that all they need is to boot machine in the morning, open Outlook and usually not more than 1 more application (Word, Excel), even 8 years XP in fact can provide much more.

Why would any IT department in any medium/large organization be enthusiastic about reinstalling Vista/7 on number of systems, when their current solution is working more than OK..?

Most our clients here in NZ are replacing desktops and notebooks in up to 5 years (some will try to keep cycle closer to 3 years turn, but not many). You can bet that big majority of them, who have purchased XP systems in the last year, will try to keep them for the next 4 years no matter how good W7 turns out to be.

And speaking of which, one of next door companies is still using Macs with OS9. How old is that? Not important. What is important is that their work hasn't changed much and obviously, for whatever reason they purchased Mac at the time, that reason still stands and OS9 systems are still doing job for them just fine. That doesn't make OSX bad, it just makes their system still sufficient for their needs.

Bad publicity on introduction aside, same thing applies to Vista - and will apply to W7 to a certain amount. Even if Vista would suit their current hardware just fine, XP was/is so good for basic business use people just have no need to replace it! Even with Vista being more advanced and secure, it is irrelevant in most of cases - as a standard solution, we are pushing remotely controlled SonicWall firewalls (usually with integrated Gateway security suite), Barracuda anti-spam email appliance and NOD32 on every desktop/server for every client we have. Number of viruses, spams, any kind on mallware we have with our clients is almost non-existent. Such as reason to upgrade from XP...
post #260 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Why would any IT department in any medium/large organization be enthusiastic about reinstalling Vista/7 on number of systems, when their current solution is working more than OK.?.

I don't the extra flash will be a driving force either, but I do think now that it's stable enough that the increased security will be enough for the transition for many.
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post #261 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If you aware that it was designed for Home Theaters then why suggest that it should be used for connecting to computer monitors. And just because the limit of the standard hasn't been reached in one form should Apple adopt it for the foreseeable future? Especially when it costs money and Vesa's DisplayPort is completely free and superior in bandwidth, backwards compatible with HDMI and DVI. And most importantly to me, it's a very future-forward video-out spec that will be consistent across every single Mac desktop and notebook from the MacMini to the MBA to the Mac Pro and even the Xserve. When was the last time Apple had that? And with an open and free standard, nonetheless.

THis headphone jack is really an audio-out jack, as I mentioned before. it's not just for headphones. It's analog and digital. On top of that, it's also a mic in on all the new Macs.


The spec doesn't seem complete for sound yet, but it's coming. That doesn't mean that Apple will support it, but I don't see why they wouldn't. This claim that it's differentiated from DVI makes no sense. It's very different! Except for the audio and smaller connecter, HDMI and DVI are nearly identical in many ways. DP or mDP is very different from them both yet will output to an HDMI or DVI monitor you wish. Again, I gave you a link that explained the connector and Apple did not create DP, Vesa did. All Apple did was make the DP connector smaller so that every one it's Macs can have the same jack. Vesa adopted it as part of the spec and it too is free.


How many computer monitors have speakers in them? If you are suggesting that an HDTV is an ideal choice for a computer monitor that will be a hard argument to make. They are larger and with much lower resolution so their pixels are considerably larger. Having an extra cable at this point isn't that big of deal. What would be a big deal is Apple dropping a true a computer connection that is emerging for one that wasn't designed for computers and won't run their 30" monitors at higher refresh rates. What happens if Apple releases a larger monitor and/or a monitor with a higher ppi? What about some shops that need the longer cable lengths?


Which explains why you sugegsted that Macs have a Serial port!?!?! I hope that was just a mistake.


Again, it is not proprietary in any way, so please stop stating that it is. It's free, it's smaller, it is more future forward, it supports more bandwidth, it's for computers and it's not some "flavor of the month". This is the connector you're going to see on all Macs, and any decent non-Mac PC soon enough, for a long time to come in the computer world. This is a great thing that is happening. Your argument is akin to Apple adding USB1.0 and removing Parallel and Serial ports. They weren't the first to add USB or DP, but they are the first to adopt it across the board.

i Have three cats, and sometimes when disturbed or scared, just before they hiss, usually for no reason or threat at all they get this wide eyed look.

I notice this look in people and I call it scared cat syndrome.

On the other hand, there was this misperception that pit bulls attacked for no reason at all except that they were highly aggressive and felt they had the right to attack anyone or anything (in the pit bull's defense this was later disproved, finally being shown as a result of conditioning from those that were using them for the "sport" of fighting....)

Dolphins are highly intelligent and love to play and have shown themselves to be very receptive of any species that is not a threat to them.

The point?

In my original comment there were several statements that, though they may have been slightly obtuse (not derisive , but obtuse) were for the most part apt.

These statements were also made in the most non-aggressive and and non-confrontational manner possible.

But the final point of my last post was made in this response alone, where in rather than an exchange of ideas and something informative it is countered with a combination of scared cat and pit-bull syndromes.

No one listens or responds in an acceptable manner when countered in this way, and it actually devalues the response due to its manner of delivery.

I've lurked and responded in many forums and the argument is always that how someone typed a response can be misconstrued......

I counter it was typed and interpreted in the exact manner the author intended and when called out or humbled by a more tactfully or artfully crafted response they offer the argument it's not how they meant it to be taken.

Apple didn't make the standard? Fine. I won't argue that, though the link said nothing about whether Apple did or did not make it, only that VESA chose to adopt it and it's first introduction was October 2008, essentially when Apple introduced it so that makes your argument it isn't a Apple fabrication a little flimsy.

Why mention HDMI? Many PCs now use that standard, and as I mentioned in my previous post, with all those HD movies on iTunes, it would probably make sense to allow those that download them to enjoy them in their intended delivery method rather than having to purchase a neutered Apple TV box (which, ironically contains the HDMI port. Go figure....)

I misnamed a VGA port as a serial port? I guess that is unforgivable and I should be drug through the street, posed up and flogged and salt and lemon juice rubbed into my wounds for my transgression. Remind me to get right on that.

How many computers have the display port in comparison to Apple? Then counter how many computers have accepted the fact, as apple did long ago with iTunes, that most computers for the masses will be used for internet and entertainment and that will still beg the question why an HDMI port, which is progressive and therefore has not reached it's max resolution at this time, has not been included on any Apple product besides Apple TV.

And, as stated earlier, it would have made more sense in any logical argument, that sound would have been included in the MDP standard when it was introduced, to differentiate it from DVI, to cut down on the amount of cables and to put it as a standard equal but superior to HDMI. That did not happen and therefore what's the difference between it and DVI?

Optical out cable? Great, just one more cable to clutter the house and let my cats play with when it could have been just one cable from the outset.

Now, I have made my point and answered your points as well, and have still done so in the most non-aggressive manner possible.

That wasn't so difficult now, was it?
post #262 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Reread your post, not sure if the bit about not having at lurkers was in there at first, but:

I truly apologize for snapping at you, in my defense I'll just say that as of late the boards have been kind of overrun by a particular kind of poster I've described elsewhere.

Suffice to say this is the type of person who has no reason to be there beyond feeling smug and superior to "Mac people", and who have nothing to add to the conversation beyond mockery and snark.

I've been a member of this community for quite a while, and there has definitely been a tonal shift, based on the shear number of the sort I describe above. If I sound defensive, it's simply because what once were spirited debates rooted in a general appreciation for the platform have come to seem more like the comments section on, say, Engadget, where any mention of any perceived advantage to being a Mac user is meant with withering scorn and derision.

Noticing and reacting to this trend are very different things from demanding mindless group think, or not being able to tolerate "criticism", since it goes right past platforms or computers or tech and gets into how communities are comprised and what sorts of people participate. My irritation is based on that, not on some misguided loyalty to a corporation.

If there was a cafe where I hung out with people I liked and we shot the breeze about stuff we liked, and a bunch of people started coming around who made it clear that they thought we were kinda stupid and wrong and kept interrupting our conversations with belittling remarks to that effect, would anyone decide that our lack of enthusiasm for that kind of behavior meant we were unduly thin skinned? Or would it seem like the new group were pretty much dicks, and leave one to wonder why they didn't have anything better to do?

Having said all that (and I've said it a couple of times now in a couple of ways, so I guess I'll just leave it at that), I actually agree that what Apple has done with MDP is kinda a pain in the ass, at the moment. I get that a compact, royalty free connector works for them, but, as you say, it might have been nice is they (or somebody) had worked out the audio spec before they shipped the new hardware.

OTOH, the DP spec does have some real advantages-- longer cables, potential additional data paths, "direct drive" monitors that drop some of the legacy control signaling.

Hopefully (and even probably, given quite a few computer hardware manufacturers have signed onto the DP spec), we'll see more and more stuff (particular monitors, which Dell is already doing) with DP, and the perceived "Apple being proprietary" vibe will fade away, just as it did when Apple dropped legacy ports in favor of USB. If not...... well, it wouldn't be Apple if they weren't fucking around with their monitor connections.

Again, I'm always happy to respond to thoughtful posts from thoughtful people, and I very much appreciate you taking the time to speak to your concerns. I hope you post more, and forgive my rude welcome.

For my part, I'll try to dial back my "policeman" mood a bit, and not jump on anyone that sounds like they're yet another member of the peanut gallery.

But I'll also say that I'll continue to respond to PC triumphalists with nothing better to do than piss in our little pond by basically suggest they fuck off, because I don't much like bullies and I don't much like douchebags, and I think most folks would agree that lately we have far to many of both.

I fully concur and accept your apology.

Honestly, you need not have apologized as I wasn't offended, but I commend that you have the graciousness to do so and will not let it fall upon deaf ears.

You are correct in that I need to tone down the policemen air. That is the job of the moderators and none of my affair so I will leave it to them in the future.

As for the trolling PC users, fire away at them, but beware. Half the time they are just sitting there laughing just to see if they can get a response in kind.

The best thing to do is ignore them, but that's just my opinion based on trollers I personally know who have admitted to me they do exactly that.
post #263 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by harleighquinn View Post

I fully concur and accept your apology.

Honestly, you need not have apologized as I wasn't offended, but I commend that you have the graciousness to do so and will not let it fall upon deaf ears.

You are correct in that I need to tone down the policemen air. That is the job of the moderators and none of my affair so I will leave it to them in the future.

As for the trolling PC users, fire away at them, but beware. Half the time they are just sitting there laughing just to see if they can get a response in kind.

The best thing to do is ignore them, but that's just my opinion based on trollers I personally know who have admitted to me they do exactly that.

Just as an aside, I was actually dinging myself for the "policeman" thing-- you know, overreacting to "suspicious" behavior.

As for trolls, sure. I'm not at all interested in arguing platform contention. I will speak up, though, when it starts to feel like they are coming in force, because that changes the underlying nature of the forum.
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post #264 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by harleighquinn View Post

Apple didn't make the standard? Fine. I won't argue that, though the link said nothing about whether Apple did or did not make it, only that VESA chose to adopt it and it's first introduction was October 2008, essentially when Apple introduced it so that makes your argument it isn't a Apple fabrication a little flimsy.

There it nothing flimsy about facts. I gave you a link that linked to every other aspect of DisplayPort and that had many links that support the data on Wikipedia. Wiki is not the end for research, but it's a good beginning. Again, Vesa created DP. All Apple did was make a smaller connector, they did nothing with the way data is transmitted. Vesa adopted this smaller connector.

Quote:
Why mention HDMI? Many PCs now use that standard, and as I mentioned in my previous post, with all those HD movies on iTunes, it would probably make sense to allow those that download them to enjoy them in their intended delivery method rather than having to purchase a neutered Apple TV box (which, ironically contains and HDMI port. Go figure....)

Why you think Apple should support a standard, especially an older one, just because other do is beyond me. HDMI was put on computers along with VGA for many reasons. None of those are god unless you want your PC to be the hub of your media center. There is nothing ironic or coincidental about the AppleTV having HDMI. It's designed to connect to your HDTV so it would have HDMI. Not DVI, not DisplayPort, not VGA. It also has component.

edit: Even Dell has a page as to why DisplayPort is the future of video-out on computers.
http://content.dell.com/us/en/corp/d...orp&redirect=2
Quote:
I misnamed a VGA port as a serial port? I guess that is unforgivable and I should be drug through the street, posed up and flogged and salt and lemon juice rubbed into my wounds for my transgression. Remind me to get right on that.

Again, as previously stated it was assumed you meant VGA, but how is that an excuse for you? It's an very old tech with very low capabilities. Your exaggerated rhetoric and your long, nonsensical introductions about cats and dogs don't help any argument you may have had.

Quote:
How many computers have the display port in comparison to Apple? Then counter how many computers have accepted the fact, as apple did long ago with iTunes, that most computers for the masses will be used for internet and entertainment and that will still beg the question why an HDMI port, which is progressive and therefore has not reached it's max resolution at this time, has not been included on any Apple product besides Apple TV.

You mentioned the max resolution of HDMi many times but haven't once mentioned the important factor, bandwidth. You mention that HDMI is more common on non-Mac PCs than on Macs, as if that is a bad thing. By your logic then no standard should ever be adopted because it will never have the marketshare over an older, lesser tech at time of launch. Mini-DisplayPort is the standard for Apple and it not "the flavor of the month" and DP will be adopted by other OEMS as it is overall superior and cheaper. We finally get a future-forward, free video-out connection and all we hear is people whining about change. Good news for you, because this won't be changing for a relatively long time.

Quote:
And, as stated earlier, it would have made more sense in any logical argument, that sound would have been included in the MDP standard when it was introduced, to differentiate it from DVI, to cut down on the amount of cables and to put it as a standard equal but superior to HDMI. That did not happen and therefore what's the difference between it and DVI?

If you would do a simple Google search or read the damn posts that have replied to you would understand how it is different from DVI. Your focus on audio is so narrow in focus that it's like communicating with a small child who doesn't have the cognitive faculties to understand the big picture.

Quote:
Optical out cable? Great, just one more cable to clutter the house and let my cats play with when it could have been just one cable from the outset.

I don't know what you are doing with your cables that they are cluttering your house, but these things tend to stay with the speakers on your desk. Are you really suggesting that your cats will play with a seperate audio or video cable but will somehow be intimidated by an A?V combo cable? Seriously!

Quote:
Now, I have made my point and answered your points as well, and have still done so in the most non-aggressive manner possible.

That wasn't so difficult now, was it?

Before you pull a muscle patting yourself on the back for your superciliousness know that being passive-aggressive is a form of aggression.
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post #265 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There it nothing flimsy about facts. I gave you a link that linked to every other aspect of DisplayPort and that had many links that support the data on Wikipedia. Wiki is not the end for research, but it's a good beginning. Again, Vesa created DP. All Apple did was make a smaller connector, they did nothing with the way data is transmitted. Vesa adopted this smaller connector.


Why you think Apple should support a standard, especially an older one, just because other do is beyond me. HDMI was put on computers along with VGA for many reasons. None of those are god unless you want your PC to be the hub of your media center. There is nothing ironic or coincidental about the AppleTV having HDMI. It's designed to connect to your HDTV so it would have HDMI. Not DVI, not DisplayPort, not VGA. It also has component.

edit: Even Dell has a page as to why DisplayPort is the future of video-out on computers.

http://content.dell.com/us/en/corp/d...orp&redirect=2
Again, as previously stated it was assumed you meant VGA, but how is that an excuse for you? It's an very old tech with very low capabilities. Your exaggerated rhetoric and your long, nonsensical introductions about cats and dogs don't help any argument you may have had.


You mentioned the max resolution of HDMi many times but haven't once mentioned the important factor, bandwidth. You mention that HDMI is more common on non-Mac PCs than on Macs, as if that is a bad thing. By your logic then no standard should ever be adopted because it will never have the marketshare over an older, lesser tech at time of launch. Mini-DisplayPort is the standard for Apple and it not "the flavor of the month" and DP will be adopted by other OEMS as it is overall superior and cheaper. We finally get a future-forward, free video-out connection and all we hear is people whining about change. Good news for you, because this won't be changing for a relatively long time.


If you would do a simple Google search or read the damn posts that have replied to you would understand how it is different from DVI. Your focus on audio is so narrow in focus that it's like communicating with a small child who doesn't have the cognitive faculties to understand the big picture.


I don't know what you are doing with your cables that they are cluttering your house, but these things tend to stay with the speakers on your desk. Are you really suggesting that your cats will play with a seperate audio or video cable but will somehow be intimidated by an A?V combo cable? Seriously!


Before you pull a muscle patting yourself on the back for your superciliousness know that being passive-aggressive is a form of aggression.

I didn't even finish reading this.

In all of this you continue to make my point for me and justify the fact I need not continue reading.

Your delivery method is fatally flawed.

Every thing and every word for you is an attack.

Your attacks are based on a defensive nature that has grounded itself in attack as defense.

I see no point in continuing this discussion until you can take a long hard look at yourself and reevaluate how you choose to communicate.

Until then I will feel more than justified in observing your "scared cat" and "pit bull" syndromes.

Good day.
post #266 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

Thank you for proving all of my points, especially about Windows users being arrogant. I might also add that your post was rude and obnoxious, too.

I think you didn't need to ADD that it was rude and obnoxious, that should have simply been your main point there. Nothing about my post "proved your points." I apologize for my rash response, but it really was irritating to read what you think was a decent addition to this discussion.

The truth is a Mac just happened to work out better for you and now you've built up a hatred for the other end for bad reasons as well as come up with your own notion as to what other people are thinking. Nobody is jealous of you. Arrogance does come from both ends, but I wasn't in any way trying to say my choices were better than yours. You as well as many others around here do just that though. One point I can't stress enough is when it comes to Macs and PCs, what's best for you won't always be what's best for someone else, so stop trying to make it seem like just because a Mac is for you it's for everyone.

You can't just post something ill-thought like you did and then not have anything substantial to back it up. As someone who's used apple computers literally since the first grade, I think I know a thing or two about both sides of the spectrum. It does piss me off to hear someone write off Macs as "not an option" for reasons that are illogical or don't make sense.

The statement you made about windows being a crap OS that needed the post powerful hardware to run smoothly just showed me how little you knew on the subject and fueled my nerd rage. Sorry for being a dick
post #267 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by harleighquinn View Post

I didn't even finish reading this.

In all of this you continue to make my point for me and justify the fact I need not continue reading.

Your delivery method is fatally flawed.

Every thing and every word for you is an attack.

Your attacks are based on a defensive nature that has grounded itself in attack as defense.

I see no point in continuing this discussion until you can take a long hard look at yourself and reevaluate how you choose to communicate.

Until then I will feel more than justified in observing your "scared cat" and "pit bull" syndromes.

Good day.

That's

how

most

people

debate

around

here
post #268 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

That's

how

most

people

debate

around

here

I guess I'm just fatally flawed for being an idealist.
post #269 of 358
Just to point out one thing. DisplayPort is open source. HDMI you require a license for, additionally it one supports resolutions up to 1900x1280 so bad luck to those running any more than that. That is one reason (as I understand) most laptops with HDMI also have a VGA. Also has anyone used a HDMI regularly plugging and unplugging, the port soon dies from my experience, though I can be a bit ham fisted at times. my DP still going strong!
post #270 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by baredd View Post

Just to point out one thing. DisplayPort is open source. HDMI you require a license for, additionally it one supports resolutions up to 1900x1280 so bad luck to those running any more than that. That is one reason (as I understand) most laptops with HDMI also have a VGA. Also has anyone used a HDMI regularly plugging and unplugging, the port soon dies from my experience, though I can be a bit ham fisted at times. my DP still going strong!

Lack of licensing fees and royalty payments will mean pretty good uptake by manufacturers, which means a year from now Apple won't seem so out on a limb. At the moment, Apple can actually control utilization of the spec, but it's slated to be rolled into the general DP 1.2 release, at which point it is free and available to all (perhaps they learned a lesson from their fee per use Firewire vs. free USB experience).

Remember, too, that Apple is consolidating its display connection around a tiny plug that potentially does it all (HD video, surround sound, even power and USB data) that will support resolutions up to 3840 x 2160 (in the upcoming 1.2 spec).

Look for more MDP handhelds from other manufacturers in the coming months. It actually makes a lot of sense as a high density, high bandwidth connector on small form factor devices, and such devices that can really make use of that capacity are the wave of the future.
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post #271 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by harleighquinn View Post

I guess I'm just fatally flawed for being an idealist.

The world is what you make of it.

I just wish you'd type your messages out in one line. I'M OBNOXIOUS
post #272 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Lack of licensing fees and royalty payments will mean pretty good uptake by manufacturers, which means a year from now Apple won't seem so out on a limb.

Remember, too, that Apple is consolidating its display connection around a tiny plug that potentially does it all (HD video, surround sound, even power and USB data) that will support resolutions up to 3840 x 2160 (in the upcoming 1.2 spec).

Look for more MDP handhelds from other manufacturers in the coming months. It actually makes a lot of sense as a high density, high bandwidth connector on small form factor devices, and such devices that can really make use of that capacity is the wave of the future.

Besides that, you know converters will be available if someone wants to go from one way to another. I don't see what anyone's bitching about.
post #273 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

Besides that, you know converters will be available if someone wants to go from one way to another. I don't see what anyone's bitching about.

When Apple decides they want to adopt a new standard, they feel the best way to make it happen is to go all in.

I still remember people claiming that the original iMac "couldn't print" because Apple dropped the legacy port in favor of USB. At the time, few USB printers were available, although a serial to USB adapter was.

And, as we know, Apple's decision helped drive the wide spread adoption of USB, since in the PC market an emphasis on backward compatibility meant older ports rarely disappeared from new machines (and is the reason VGA is still hanging around today, for god's sake), giving peripheral manufactures little motivation to incorporate new standards.
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post #274 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by baredd View Post

Just to point out one thing. DisplayPort is open source. HDMI you require a license for, additionally it one supports resolutions up to 1900x1280 so bad luck to those running any more than that. That is one reason (as I understand) most laptops with HDMI also have a VGA. Also has anyone used a HDMI regularly plugging and unplugging, the port soon dies from my experience, though I can be a bit ham fisted at times. my DP still going strong!

Thanks.

That's a pretty good description. I haven't plugged and unplugged my HDMI connections, so I really don't know about them breaking eventually, but I can say that if the technology has to be licensed (I haven't researched this, but i believe you) then yes, I can see why Apple would refuse to adopt it.

That being said, I still believe Apple should have made it sound compatible, specifically surround sound compatible, from the outset. I will still stand by that.

When I buy my mother a Mac mini and a Samsung Flat Panel TV as a monitor (she's not doing anything graphics intensive so an LCD TV and a Mini should be fine....) I would rather her only need to plug in one port instead of two.

The point I have been attempting to make is universal adoption and simplicity.

People are inherently simple. Not everyone is an IT geek. They want to plug in one thing and have it do everything.

But, as you said, the need to license HDMI is prohibitive and I can understand wanting a varied (read "open source and free") format to utilize instead.
post #275 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

The world is what you make of it.

I just wish you'd type your messages out in one line. I'M OBNOXIOUS

post #276 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

When Apple decides they want to adopt a new standard, they feel the best way to make it happen is to go all in.

I still remember people claiming that the original iMac "couldn't print" because Apple dropped the legacy port in favor of USB. At the time, few USB printers were available, although a serial to USB adapter was.

And, as we know, Apple's decision helped drive the wide spread adoption of USB, since in the PC market an emphasis on backward compatibility meant older ports rarely disappeared from new machines (and is the reason VGA is still hanging around today, for god's sake), giving peripheral manufactures little motivation to incorporate new standards.

That's absolutely true. I remember that. It was initially being introduced by Sun as the Jini standard, or something like that.

I also agree with what you stated about the 1.2 spec of the MDP. Once it makes it to that revision it will finally make sense.
post #277 of 358
Here's an interesting article on HDMI vs. DP.

It makes the point that DP allows thinner, cheaper, lower complexity monitors by moving some signal processing out of the display. Although, unfortunately, Apple MDP enabled monitors don't appear to be any of those things.....

At any rate, the general idea is that HDMI was conceived as a replacement for S video and component cabling in consumer HD video devices, whereas DP is positioned as a replacement for VGA and DVI computer connections.

My impression is that, although there are certainly more than a few HDMI packing PCs on the market, it can by no means be considered a done deal that HDMI has "won" as a standard on the computer side. In that, the situation may resemble the USB market at the time of the first iMac, with the Mac market now persuading some monitor manufacturers to start including DP, the availability of which which (especially if any of them actually are thinner and cheaper) making it more likely that PC makers will follow suit.

The grey area is the fact that more people are using their computers hooked up to TVs and stereos, which is why a consumer video interconnect is even in the vicinity of computer ports.

Whichever way that goes, I still think MDP will prove awfully enticing to manufacturers of space constrained machines, which appear to be the fastest growing segment of the market. At which point Apple will appear to have been prescient.

Or, I'm wrong and they have egg on their face and eventually have to give it up, after stubbornly clinging to what comes to be regarded as an Apple proprietary solution.

I'm betting on the former, but who knows.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #278 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Here's an interesting article on HDMI vs. DP.

It makes the point that DP allows thinner, cheaper, lower complexity monitors by moving some signal processing out of the display. Although, unfortunately, Apple MDP enabled monitors don't appear to be any of those things.....

At any rate, the general idea is that HDMI was conceived as a replacement for S video and component cabling in consumer HD video devices, whereas DP is positioned as a replacement for VGA and DVI computer connections.

My impression is that, although there are certainly more than a few HDMI packing PCs on the market, it can by no means be considered a done deal that HDMI has "won" as a standard on the computer side. In that, the situation may resemble the USB market at the time of the first iMac, with the Mac market now persuading some monitor manufacturers to start including DP, the availability of which which (especially if any of them actually are thinner and cheaper) making it more likely that PC makers will follow suit.

The grey area is the fact that more people are using their computers hooked up to TVs and stereos, which is why a consumer video interconnect is even in the vicinity of computer ports.

Whichever way that goes, I still think MDP will prove awfully enticing to manufacturers of space constrained machines, which appear to be the fastest growing segment of the market. At which point Apple will appear to have been prescient.

Or, I'm wrong and they have egg on their face and eventually have to give it up, after stubbornly clinging to what comes to be regarded as an Apple proprietary solution.

I'm betting on the former, but who knows.

Seeing that Dell and VESA seem to have adopted the medium and the fact it doesn't require licensing may assist in it's adoption.

Unfortunately, with so many generations of consumer product already in the pipeline and HDMI at this time being the defacto consumer standard, as well as so many companies having already paid the licensing fees to utilize the HDMI connector, I can see the resistance to the adoption of the MDP, if for no other reason than to not have to admit they all jumped to soon and paid for something they could have had for free.

Then there's the adverse:

That HDMI will suddenly become an open source standard just to spitefully attempt to undercut MDP and ground it's dominance.

i.e.: Sony, the PS3, and Blu-Ray.
post #279 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


as for the folks that said "they should do an I'm a Mac ad" it's not likely to happen. Justin is very likely off contract and no way would he settle for the cheap deal they got last time. better (in the eyes of the bean counters) to go a new route.

Bzzt: Wrong answer... 4 new ads.
http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

Guess he was just busy blastin' out a few spots in movies (his role as the gay movie producer in Zach & Miri was deff my favorite).

Yes! Return of the ads
B
Bobby & Carie
13" Macbook Aluminum, 17" Macbook Pro -both: 2.4 GHz, 4GB RAM, 23" Cinema Display
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Bobby & Carie
13" Macbook Aluminum, 17" Macbook Pro -both: 2.4 GHz, 4GB RAM, 23" Cinema Display
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post #280 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohanadivers View Post

Bzzt: Wrong answer... 4 new ads.
http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

Guess he was just busy blastin' out a few spots in movies (his role as the gay movie producer in Zach & Miri was deff my favorite).

Yes! Return of the ads
B

I figured his role in die hard 4 would be LOL.

eidt:
Oh wait, he wasn't using a Mac to hack anything was he? nvm
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