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Apple responds to Microsoft ads: "a PC is no bargain" - Page 2

post #41 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

"A PC is no bargain."


All this frothing-at-the-mouth bargain hunting because it's a recession needs to end.

You weren't that crazy about those bargains when times were good, right? Those same reasons don't magically disappear when you've got less money to spend.

People are looking to save money on the wrong things and end up getting burned.

Or maybe crap looks a lot better in this economic climate. After all, how can so many flies be wrong?

When times are tough is the time to not take risks on junk. You need a sure bet, something that's going to keep its value for the most part.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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post #42 of 358
My experience, from friends and family, is that you buy the cheap PC and it gradually grinds to a halt over a period of about a year. They don't know from virus protection, beyond running (a few times early on) whatever the sales guy talked them into a , or taking it in to the Best Buy for "repair", whereupon they're informed that it would be cheaper to just get a new PC, which, of course, is "much better." Which the do. The average home PC is disposable.

The real cost of a PC, as far as I can tell, should take into account the several iterations the average PC user will go through for every one the average Mac user does.

Have to say, gotta love the PC centric notion that not being adept at keeping an insecure system running properly is proof that Mac users are stupid. Judging from the people chiming in on this board, the average PC user is a bullying asshole that deserves to be kicked in the teeth a few times to shut them the fuck up.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #43 of 358
I find it so very interesting how Apple has become a label, and almost a religion these days.
That and the age of internet and animosity make it so people can say and do some very hurtful things... all over a company and its products.

That said, I do wish the other companies would focus more on leaving Apple alone. No need to emulate them. Do your own thing, don't chase. That's how you will stand out. Apple's products (though over priced) stand out because they have something different about them. MS, Dell, HP, Toshiba, etc... figure out your own ways to stand out from the pack. Apple will be back to its 90's presence soon enough anyhow. MS, your days are numbered too if you continue down your path.
Go Linux, Choose a Flavor!
"I aim to misbehave"
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Go Linux, Choose a Flavor!
"I aim to misbehave"
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post #44 of 358
"They do need to own up that it sucks for business."

Dude, I'm in banking and I use a Mac. I'm a project manager who also does copy and publication work. Quickview alone makes my Mac better than any PC. I get my work done well over twice as fast as folks in other departments because of the reliability and streamlined ease of use of the OS. And, I've NEVER once called IT for any type of support.
post #45 of 358
Guys, for every Apple user's sake, please drop the wine analogy. For crying out loud, nothing could promote the snob stereotype more. You're basically just calling the customer a tasteless idiot... Not a great sales strategy.

A far better analogy would compare a product that is demonstrably more efficient and easier to use and maintain to the ostensibly cheaper counterpart -- e.g., a Toyota vs. a GM.

The wine thing doesn't work because the drinker will be completely satisfied with his $10 bottle. He'll get his buzz, save his $40, and never have to screw with viruses, part replacements, freezes, crappy apps, or miserable resale value 2 years after the fact.
post #46 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by linapple_xp View Post

But the company is getting too proprietary and that will be the downfall. No one knows about media center PC's but they kick ass compared to iTunes

Actually:

- Apple's kernel is open source (NT isn't).
- Apple uses many open source components such as OpenGL, OpenCL, ZFS and D-Trace (Microsoft would rather sue and issue patent threats and use their own proprietary solutions like Direct X and NTFS).
- Apple Webkit is open source (Microsoft uses their own proprietary Trident engine, Webkit canes it in every benchmark ever done).
- launchd is open source
- Bonjour is open source
- Quicktime streaming sever is open source.
- Darwin calendar server is open source
- Apple funds other open source projects such as CUPS, Clang
- Apple favours open solutions on the client side for web development, like HTML 5, Javascript (and the Sproutcore framework) and CSS 3 (Microsoft prefers their own proprietary Silverlight).
- Apple favours open solutions on the server side for web development, like Apache, Ruby on Rails and Python (Microsofts prefers ASP.NET and Windows Server, all propriety).
- Apple favours standards for digital audio (AAC) (Microsoft wanted everyone to use Windows Media)
- Apple favours stanards for digital video (H.264) (as above)
- Apple favours OpenDirectory and OpenLDAP (Microsoft favours proprietary solutions like Active Directory)
Mac OS X is UNIX and Fully POSIX-compliant (NT isn't)

I don't need to tell you Apple will favour in standards and interoperability, because the company's actions bare this out.

So how is Apple too proprietary compared to Microsoft?
post #47 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The guy stating that Mac is really cool doesn't make sense to me to sell more HPs. I have no idea why that was included. The rest of the ads seems to work in the way they are meant to, except that I think the audience that seem to be targeting would have already decided on the budget computer, thus making it pointless. They need to convince people that the budget machine is worth the money, but i have no idea how they could do that.



Let them have their cheap machines. Macs aren't for everyone. And if they did get one and liked it they would be stuck with Macs forever, like when you get an HDTV and HD cable and can't stand to watch SD anymore.

Microsoft´s add campaigns seem to be targeted to the "Sarah Palins" of the world, whereas Mac adds are addressed to the other "cool" guy who won the elections.

Just a little political humor...
post #48 of 358
Has anyone posted the new laptop hunter ad yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbJSuduTrPs
post #49 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galapagos View Post

Microsoft´s add campaigns seem to be targeted to the "Sarah Palins" of the world, whereas Mac adds are addressed to the other "cool" guy who won the elections.

Just a little political humor...

Welcome to the message board, Galapagos, total posts two. After a few more posts you will realize that only half of the world laughs at any political joke, while the other half gets pissed. Posting such an incredibly witty political joke will tend to cause a thread to go to the crapper, please refrain in the future.
post #50 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Has anyone posted the new laptop hunter ad yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbJSuduTrPs

Hehe, yes, it's been making the rounds on AI, Macrumors, and even Neowin.

It's very clever.
post #51 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

This guy Hesseldahl sounds like a true fanboy. Widows people don't make PC's , electronics companies do.
Notice again how it's always HP and the other bottom of the barell Dell and Gateway- never Sony or Lenovo.

If this weren't from someone with nearly 2500 posts over 18 months, I'd swear it was a troll.
post #52 of 358
I could never understand the Argument between Apple and Windows. I mean, Apple makes Hardware AND Software, Windows just (for the most part) makes Software/OS. If Apple actually allowed their OS to run on an HP or an IBM ThinkPad or something, I bet it would run just as bad as Windows Does. Windows on a Mac runs very well, albeit not as well as OS X does, but still. Apple makes the BEST Hardware, and this is why it is more expensive. If people actually complained about HP, Toshiba, IBM, Sony, Dell, Gateway, Acer, and all the other HARDWARE makers, maybe THEN something would be done to aleviate people's problems with Windows. They would still have to deal with Viruses and everything else, but it would at least be a step in the right direct.

Don't get me wrong, I love Macs, but I support Windows on a day to day basis and some of the PCs are slower than molasses.
post #53 of 358
snap!
post #54 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by columbus View Post

Actually:

- Apple's kernel is open source (NT isn't).
- Apple uses many open source components such as OpenGL, OpenCL, ZFS and D-Trace (Microsoft would rather sue and issue patent threats and use their own proprietary solutions like Direct X and NTFS).
- Apple Webkit is open source (Microsoft uses their own proprietary Trident engine, Webkit canes it in every benchmark ever done).
- launchd is open source
- Bonjour is open source
- Quicktime streaming sever is open source.
- Darwin calendar server is open source
- Apple funds other open source projects such as CUPS, Clang
- Apple favours open solutions on the client side for web development, like HTML 5, Javascript (and the Sproutcore framework) and CSS 3 (Microsoft prefers their own proprietary Silverlight).
- Apple favours open solutions on the server side for web development, like Apache, Ruby on Rails and Python (Microsofts prefers ASP.NET and Windows Server, all propriety).
- Apple favours standards for digital audio (AAC) (Microsoft wanted everyone to use Windows Media)
- Apple favours stanards for digital video (H.264) (as above)
- Apple favours OpenDirectory and OpenLDAP (Microsoft favours proprietary solutions like Active Directory)
Mac OS X is UNIX and Fully POSIX-compliant (NT isn't)

I don't need to tell you Apple will favour in standards and interoperability, because the companies actions bare this out.

So how is Apple too proprietary compared to Microsoft?

The cool thing about open source is that you don't have to open-source the result of gluing this lot together into a coherent whole. It doesn't stop you licensing the software in such a way that it can't be installed on specific hardware, either.

On the whole, I found the Apple reps' statements persuasive. I take issue with the anti-virus point, though. I don't run any antivirus on my home PC. I've yet to receive a virus.
post #55 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logical View Post

"They do need to own up that it sucks for business."

Dude, I'm in banking and I use a Mac. I'm a project manager who also does copy and publication work. Quickview alone makes my Mac better than any PC. I get my work done well over twice as fast as folks in other departments because of the reliability and streamlined ease of use of the OS. And, I've NEVER once called IT for any type of support.

Best first post ever.
Emailing video from iPhone to Apple TV , sort of..
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Emailing video from iPhone to Apple TV , sort of..
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post #56 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by iReality85 View Post

I find his responses to be rather snarky and trite, IMO. Most people realize what they're buying into these days when choosing a computer. And the anti-virus issue? So what, big deal. Most of the companies out there allow multiple usages per software key for their security suites. I'm 24 years old, and I install Zone Alarm (which is an excellent antivirus/spyware program) for my PC, which is paid for annually by my father, and I get any/all upgrades free throughout the year. For $50 a year, its well worth it, especially when I don't even have to pay for it. I am willing to extrapolate this further and say that many PC users do this, and sharing product keys among relatives is common practice anyway. And even college undergrads get antivirus/spyware software for free by their institutions. So the issue that Macs come with built in security is a moot point, IMO.

You're joking, right? I never heard such convoluted logic!
post #57 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

Best first post ever.

From Microsoft’s ‘I’m a PC’ Campaign Keeps Getting Stranger (With Videos)
Quote:
In reality, they’re the ones who have been stereotyping, calling Macs ‘not ready for business,’ despite the fact the Microsoft Excel first appeared on the Macintosh and that Apple pursued a decade long lead in graphical computing ahead of Windows, and that Apple helped pioneer mobile business computing, and laser printing, and trackpads, and easy to use networking, and wireless networking, and Gigabit Ethernet with auto-configuration, and plenty of other features that businesses now take for granted.

Still waiting for a reply on this:
Quote:
Hypothetically speaking, I need to use Macnification and Checkout.

Find me the free PC equivalents... go, go, go!

And this:
Quote:
So how is Apple too proprietary compared to Microsoft?
post #58 of 358
I'll try to paraphrase a quote made by a famous super-salesman. It may been Zig Ziglar but I don't know. Anyway...

"There will always exist a man who makes a product more cheaply, of less quality, and for a lower price. Those who consider price alone are the just prey of such men."

Not the exact words but close.

In my life experience I have found that you do generally get what you pay for. Quality and real value cost more, whether it's cars, food, or computers. A lot of people don't understand that. These are the "I got one just as good as (insert brand name product) for half the price" crowd. No they didn't.
post #59 of 358
Seriously anyone who remotely consider themselves as a geek and still recommends Sony computers needs to get their head checked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_So...ection_scandal
post #60 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple has responded to the new Microsoft ads promoting low-cost generic PCs as a cheaper alternative to the Mac, stating "A PC is no bargain when it doesn't do what you want."

And if your Mac doesn't do what you want?


Quote:
The comment, from Apple spokesman Bill Evans, appeared in a BusinessWeek article by Erik Hesseldahl, which examined the differences between the $699 HP notebook Microsoft recommended to its TV audience over Apple's 17" MacBook Pro, a system in a considerably higher quality and price range.

"The one thing that both Apple and Microsoft can agree on is that everyone thinks the Mac is cool," Evans added. "With its great designs and advanced software, nothing matches it at any price."

Which is great if you have unlimited budget. Nobody is arguing that that Macbook Pro isn't a much better machine, they're just arguing that not everybody would do well with a 17" screen needs that much notebook and Apple doesn't make a 17" whitebook.


Quote:
The analysis also points out that PC users who run into inevitable problems will face a $129 fee from Geek Squad just to diagnose the problem, while pointing out that Apple offers free help from its retail stores' Genius Bar.

The fuel and the day you have to take off of work to drive a couple of hours to the nearest Apple isn't free. It would be a better point if Apple stores were located outside the super-metros. I don't think an Apple store exists in an area smaller than half a million people.

What you get

Quote:
Hesseldahl also outlined the difference in what users get in terms of usability with iLife's iMovie, iDVD, GarageBand, and other software. He noted that the PC ships with some third party movie editing tools that usually cost $184, but figures that collecting a few other software titles to match what ships on the Mac would easily cost another $340. Never mind that all those PC programs don't offer much in terms of tight integration like the Mac's iLife titles.

Valid point for Apple, however are these worth tripling your budget for the highest echelon of portable.

Quote:
All that missing software and the extra fees can easily double the cost of the cheap PC hardware. And as the report describes, the bargain basement HP hardware isn't very compelling, with a wimpy battery rated for 2.5 hours compared to the MacBook Pro's eight, an extra 1.2 pounds of weight in a thicker case, and a far lower quality display with much lower resolution, 1440x900 compared to the MacBook Pro's 1920x1200.

The article also notes that Consumer Reports ranked the Mac first among a half dozen notebooks with 17" to 18" screens, while the HP came in fourth. Hesseldahl also cited a Forrester Research study that ranked Apple first in "usefulness, usability, and enjoyability" ahead of HP, Dell and Gateway, which is now part of Acer.

"PC makers in the Windows camp have done everything possible to make their products progressively worse by cutting corners to save pennies per unit and boost sales volume," he wrote. "There's good reason Apple is seeing healthy profits while grabbing market share. It refuses to budge on quality and so charges a higher price. Rather than running ads that seem clever at first but really aren't, the Windows guys ought to take the hint and just build better computers."

Apple is trying to argue quality when the issue is choice. You cannot buy a quality entry level 17 from Apple because they don't make one. If Apple is so black and white what they don't see the difference in segment beyond screen size, we might have some problems in the not too distant future. They're trying to push a Bimmer-7 to the Camry crowd and thinking they're similar markets.
post #61 of 358
I think what most are missing here is the fact that Apple is simply saying. If you are going to compare Apple to Apples then do so! Its that simple. Microsoft on the other hand is trying to confuse people with selecting low cost and low quality computers and comparing them to the cost of a premium computer from Apple.

When you compare Apple and most of the Macs with the same quality as in Sony, HP, Lenovo, and Dell. You will get a better ideal of what you are buying. What Microsoft did here was compared Yugo with a BMW. Of course the BMW is going to look more expensive. But once you take in the consideration of total ownership and the quality of the Yugo vs. the BMW. You will see that a BMW has the overall better value.

The problem here is fact. Those who use Windows on their PC are always crying that us Mac owners/user are snobs. Yet, they are the ones that always talking down about the Mac. When I worked for IBM I had to deal with a Pro-Windows/PC Owner/User who loved to bash the Mac. Yet when I would bring my Mac in to work he couldn't take his hands off of it. But he would never own one.

What I have always dealt with over the years I have worked in the computer industry is the same ole line of BS. The person who bashes the Mac and the owner/user either has never taken the time to use a Mac. Only remember using a Mac back when the 512K Mac was around or just really has no clue.

Every friend I have met along the way has either owned a PC with Windows or Linux or some other OS on it. When I have shown them why I love my Mac it never fails I get the same old line of BS again. Yet when they have the money the first thing they is go look at and end up buying a Mac.

Mac's are not perfect but they are very close to perfection when it comes to computers. Another point missed is the fact that a computer should be a help to your every day life. It should not require you to figure our what the hell is going on. For my Geek friends I will not argue over the fact you like to take your computer apart to see what makes it tick. There are computers out there for you and you like what you have chosen. However, for those of us who prefer to turn on our computers use it and then shut it down or put it to sleep till we want to use it again are not looking to have to waste time in what the hell they just downloaded and what kind of effect it has their computer and or if their information is safe.

Apple has pretty much kept quiet about Microsoft and its misleading ads. I myself feel Apple should have went after Microsoft years ago. Microsoft does not make the computer... They do not design the computer... Microsoft is a company that buys other peoples hard work and slaps their name on the product. They have being doing this since at least DOS.

A Macintosh is just not a Mac because of one thing. Its from the whole, The computer, The OS and other software that is integrated and works. Too many people like to claim there is more software on the Windows side. When I used to work for CompUSA as Macintosh specialist I took the time to walk with my customer down the software. Of course they were amazed at the software selection. But, when I explained to them that the software they are looking at is 9 times out of 10 just a different version of the same software taking up aisle space and pointing the quality titles vs. the Mac quality titles they learned real quick the Mac was in fact on Par with The PC with software.

In the end people who really do they're shopping and really take time to think about their investment will make the best choice. Those who think a piece of blue plastic makes for a great computer will be the one calling foul when they can't get beyond turning the computer on.

A lot of people when they look at products make the mistake of buying on impulse. They see this shinny neat looking computer and buy it because the price saved them $400.00 that day. Then when they get it home they take time with it and learn to regret their purchase.

I looked at those neat little netbooks because I do want one that small. However, because I am used to buy Macs I took my time and looked over the who netbook I then saw the cheapness of them. Sure $300. for a netbook right on, Right? If it would have been a quality Mac I would have said lets do it. So, let those who think cheap up front is a bargin. In the end while they are frustrated with the crap they bough I am sipping my tea in Starbucks and writting this response.


Whew! - sorry I can get lost in this If you read this far you are better man then I LOL
post #62 of 358
We all know computers are just a fad anyways.
post #63 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

I'll try to paraphrase a quote made by a famous super-salesman. It may been Zig Ziglar but I don't know. Anyway...

"There will always exist a man who makes a product more cheaply, of less quality, and for a lower price. Those who consider price alone are the just prey of such men."

Not the exact words but close.

Exactly! Don't get me wrong, America is the greatest country in the world (after Thailand) But which company is the largest beverage company in the world, Coke, and what do they make? Crap! Which company is the largest restaurant chain in the world? McDonald's, and what do they make? Crap! Which company is the largest Car manufacturer in the world? GM, and what do they make? Crap! Which company is the largest SW manufacturer in the world? MicroSoft, and what do they make? Crap! Which company is the largest PC manufacturer in the world? HP, and what do they make? Crap!
post #64 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionJaxon View Post

This made me second-guess myself but it's actually a (still formidable) 1920x1200 on the 17in MacBook Pro \

I like this response from Apple, it's a professional and factual response - unlike alot of Microsoft's Ballmer-influenced, childish, misleading remarks and ad campaigns.... bravo Apple.

I think both sides have some good arguments and a lot of bull*hit in their approach.

Apple's response is dignified, but not completely valid.

It is very easy to find free AV. There are, what? 3-4 decent and well known free AV solutions, and with popularity of Windows platforms, it is really hard not to know anyone who can recommend AV for you. And you have 60 days to find solution from friends or user forums. True, some people will purchase Norton, but stating that as a general rule is false. Number of Norton home users I have seen recently - here in NZ at least - is very low. I would say AVG is more common among home users than Norton at present.

Same applies to other statement; true there is value in additional software Macs are coming with. But... how many people really require, say, Garage Band kind of software? Is everyone going to create a web site..?

If one is user who actually needs all (or most) features of iLife, than there is absolutely huge value in Mac for such user. But for people who don't need iLife - or do need much more powerful software - such argument is not holding water. For some of them, transferring value (and price) of iLife into more horsepowers (Quad Cores, stronger graphics...), or getting what they need for less money, will be much more reasonable; thus Microsoft arguments might prove more reasonable for them.
post #65 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly View Post

On the whole, I found the Apple reps' statements persuasive. I take issue with the anti-virus point, though. I don't run any antivirus on my home PC. I've yet to receive a virus.

How do you know? What if there is a virus in your PC sending out spam or collecting your keystrokes? Not running A/V means you'd never know it, right?
post #66 of 358
It is nothing like going into a wine store. Most people really can't tell the difference between a $10 and $50 bottle of wine. That is because there really is little difference in most cases. I used to work at a high end Country Club, very few people really know anything about wine. So, in that case why spend $50 if you have tasted the $10 and it tastes just as good to you.

The problem is most Windows users have not really tried a Mac. The reverse is true of Mac users. They have tried Windows. I have met some WIndows folks who think Macs run Windows.

Microsoft is right about one thing. You have a limited choice on Apple machines. However, this is because Apple doesn't want to offer junk computers. When you compare a Windows machine with Mac machine on features, Apple often wins on price or is very competitive.

Moreover, Macs tightly integrate software and hardware, where PCs can't do this because the hardware makers don't create the software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe in miami View Post

I tell my PC friends the same thing about cheap components and price of software and resolution, but they are happy with their cheap shit.

It's like trying to get someone to go into a wine shop and select a $50 bottle of wine, when they are just as happy with a $10 bottle from the grocery store. It's just not worth the effort.
post #67 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

You're joking, right? I never heard such convoluted logic!

You make yourself sound like a blowhard. Actually, what I said is grounded in reality. It may not apply to those who have immersed themselves inside the Apple ecosystem, but as for those in the PC world? Yes.
post #68 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

It's really actually pathetic- to think an Apple spokesman actually needs to respond and say these things. SJ's leadership is sorely missed.
It's as if Mercedes or BMW responding to a Toyota add or something else as absurd.

Unless Toyota ad claims they are actually better than Mercedes/BMW
post #69 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

It is nothing like going into a wine store. Most people really can't tell the difference between a $10 and $50 bottle of wine. That is because there really is little difference in most cases. I used to work at a high end Country Club, very few people really know anything about wine. So, in that case why spend $50 if you have tasted the $10 and it tastes just as good to you.

The problem is most Windows users have not really tried a Mac. The reverse is true of Mac users. They have tried Windows. I have met some WIndows folks who think Macs run Windows.

Microsoft is right about one thing. You have a limited choice on Apple machines. However, this is because Apple doesn't want to offer junk computers. When you compare a Windows machine with Mac machine on features, Apple often wins on price or is very competitive.

Moreover, Macs tightly integrate software and hardware, where PCs can't do this because the hardware makers don't create the software.

I agree with TBell. Here in California, I find $10 wine too expensive. We've got something called "Two Buck Chuck" made right here in Napa Valley. It's great wine at a low price which makes it a great buy. By the same token, Macs running OS X are great computers at fair prices, which make them great buys. People with too much money who are seriously into appearances buy $50 bottles of wine. People who don't understand computing buy Windows machines.
post #70 of 358
Well, I'd like to be able to upgrade my 3000 dollar Mac Pro to play games. That's something I'd like my Mac to do...
post #71 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by iReality85 View Post

I find his responses to be rather snarky and trite, IMO. Most people realize what they're buying into these days when choosing a computer.

You can only use 3 of the 4 GBs of ram in the HP laptop featured in the commercial, did you realize that? Why would HP include ram that windows cant even use? Why does microsoft want you to buy it?

I think once you answer the above question honestly, you'll realize how snarky you ended up.

IMO, of course. Heh.


p.s. The Windows security and PC repair industries are a multi-billion dollar a year segments. 'buy a cheap pc, steal software from dad' argument = not so good.
post #72 of 358
Of course Macs are "ready for business."

The problem is, IT departments aren't ready for Macs. With Macs in the enterprise there wouldn't be any IT departments.

Broken Windows keeps the entire IT industry in business. A whole industry has grown up around Windows' lousy code.
post #73 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logical View Post

"They do need to own up that it sucks for business."

Dude, I'm in banking and I use a Mac. I'm a project manager who also does copy and publication work. Quickview alone makes my Mac better than any PC. I get my work done well over twice as fast as folks in other departments because of the reliability and streamlined ease of use of the OS. And, I've NEVER once called IT for any type of support.

OMG you have got to be kidding. Are you a PM for Apple?

You are a PM... So I guess Sharepoint is inferior to "Mobile Me"

Curious what type of group do you manage? You mentioned copy and publication work. If you read my post you would have read that I mentioned a category for you called creative/design, but perhaps we can just leave you in a hybrid of "creative" and "idiot". haha Not too serious there bud.

Seriously I would love to know what you do and what you use without virtualization. Any major company does not run on any mac based platforms. However they do use them on 24 and the Apprentice. Great product placement. Perhaps they photoshop Donald's hair with the mac or use Photo Booth to undistort Joan Rivers.

WTF the point is dude that no one uses Macs in business, (Finance, Operations, Quants) and small businesses that I consult are pissed with their macs because they don't integrate with the rest of the business world.

But if you sell cupcakes online you should be OK.

And as far as Quick View... "Dude" please... Only good for pictures, like I said Macs are preferred for creative. However if you have a large volume of biz docs, dbs, logs, etc... Windows has a superior search that has just been released than spotlight.
post #74 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly View Post

The cool thing about open source is that you don't have to open-source the result of gluing this lot together into a coherent whole. It doesn't stop you licensing the software in such a way that it can't be installed on specific hardware, either.

On the whole, I found the Apple reps' statements persuasive. I take issue with the anti-virus point, though. I don't run any antivirus on my home PC. I've yet to receive a virus.

Lots of malware floating around out there is very insidious. The user often doesn't even know they're infected. Sometimes there are no outward signs at all.

You could be part of a massive bot-net and not even know it.

Windows is bad enough even with antivirus installed. But without it, is about as good as a pair of thermal underwear in Death Valley at high noon.

Windows is, by the nature of its coding, a perpetually broken OS. This is due to MS' negligence. It's good code written on top of bad code, written on top of good code, written on top of bad code, etc.

There is absolutely no way whatsoever to truly "fix" it unless MS starts from scratch. A completely new OS. Along the lines of the OS 9 to OS X transition.

The problem is, that MS is still essentially the exact same company, with the exact same philosophy, exact same attitude toward the user, with the exact same understanding of design it had 15 years ago. That's the problem. It's still churning out products that are either bloated, confusing, broken, or all three.

Maybe things will be different with Windows 7. It won't be, because MS still doesn't run a closed system. Or at least, doesn't manage the one they have very well.

But we need MS, and there is a whole IT industry that needs Windows to be broken.

Moreover, without all those hardcore Windows gamers driving hardware demand, Apple wouldn't have nice Nvidia tech to put into their Macs.

So let's thank our lucky stars for Steve Ballmer. Every awkward, confusing MS keynote he does, ensures that Macs will not only look that much better in comparison, but will have wonderful 3D tech on the inside. And IT managers can sleep soundly, secure in the knowledge that the next day will bring even more Windows issues to earn them their pay.
post #75 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyKrz View Post

Great analogy. They'll both give you a buzz. They're both the same color and you drink them from the same glass, but that $50 bottle is probably going to taste a whole lot better (and probably give you a much cleaner buzz). On the other hand, some $50 bottles of wine suck worse than the $10 grocery store bottle. Also, it is really just a matter of opinion when it comes down to it even though you and I may know the real difference which makes our opinion more educated, but still an opinion. I could go on forever with this. For the sake of the analogy, we all know that the $10 bottle in this case is horse piss and the $50 bottle is the most advanced (and yet easiest to use) operating system and hardware that any amount of money can buy.

Part you didn't mention but I think will work with this analogy - $50 bottle is that much more expensive not only for the wine itself, but for fancy wooden hand-made box, certificate and luxury history of wine region, famous people who enjoyed that specific wine etc.

And there is beautiful wine glass in the box as well.

But wine itself, while different, is not necessarily better; it boils down to matter of taste.
post #76 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by linapple_xp View Post


WTF the point is dude that no one uses Macs in business, (Finance, Operations, Quants) and small businesses that I consult are pissed with their macs because they don't integrate with the rest of the business world.

The "rest of the business world" (I assume you're leaving out the Creative/Design industry out entirely, LOL), runs on a broken paradigm. IT departments are fueled by Windows being and remaining broken.

The "rest of the business world" is unfortunately, wrong and in error. The very existence and robustness of the IT industry proves this. But as soon as a platform is pervasive enough due to cost and licensing, even if its is essentially broken and inefficient, it will still be used.
post #77 of 358
Good for you bud... You are a developer... Are just someone with too much time on your hands... That iBeer is something else.

Bud I am a fan of Mac... I have recommend them to everyone. I track there business moves. There are two sides to it all. I use everything. Web and server based dev, I use *nix. M$ is evil there for the little guy. And they make a shitload of mistakes.

I know about BSD and neXt and the Genius of Steve Jobs. And it is very developer friendly. From your point of view it is not what I was talking about.

Here is my point and it is a marketing/business commentary.

I was looking forward to more cross platform when they went with Intel... (they don't handle virtual load well)
They control distribution channels too much. Pricing, retailers, etc...
iPhone is restricted to one carrier. Apps have to be approved.
They missed the media boat with time capsule, and apple tv. All suck and are overpriced.
The monitors have sucked.
They push $300 applecare and expensive annual rates for mobile me.
They have the only high end tower that is tremendously limited for mod's because of hardware limitations (again a big disappointment with expectations from Intel)

The whole point is this... You are a total fanboy if you can't see some of the bad. I think they are great, they just need to improve. The problem is the company is full of blinded fanboys like you and it needs a critical but honest review.

I bet some assholes on here will argue that a mouse with one button is good and that their monitors are a great deal.
post #78 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by linapple_xp View Post

OMG you have got to be kidding. Are you a PM for Apple?

You are a PM... So I guess Sharepoint is inferior to "Mobile Me"

Curious what type of group do you manage? You mentioned copy and publication work. If you read my post you would have read that I mentioned a category for you called creative/design, but perhaps we can just leave you in a hybrid of "creative" and "idiot". haha Not too serious there bud.

Seriously I would love to know what you do and what you use without virtualization. Any major company does not run on any mac based platforms. However they do use them on 24 and the Apprentice. Great product placement. Perhaps they photoshop Donald's hair with the mac or use Photo Booth to undistort Joan Rivers.

WTF the point is dude that no one uses Macs in business, (Finance, Operations, Quants) and small businesses that I consult are pissed with their macs because they don't integrate with the rest of the business world.

But if you sell cupcakes online you should be OK.

And as far as Quick View... "Dude" please... Only good for pictures, like I said Macs are preferred for creative. However if you have a large volume of biz docs, dbs, logs, etc... Windows has a superior search that has just been released than spotlight.

Dude, please tell us who exactly do you consult? And I guess when you check their "macs" you would say: "Dude OMGWTFBBQ dont open itunes on you mac dude use a PeeCee!!11!!one"
post #79 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

And if your Mac doesn't do what you want?




Which is great if you have unlimited budget. Nobody is arguing that that Macbook Pro isn't a much better machine, they're just arguing that not everybody would do well with a 17" screen needs that much notebook and Apple doesn't make a 17" whitebook.




The fuel and the day you have to take off of work to drive a couple of hours to the nearest Apple isn't free. It would be a better point if Apple stores were located outside the super-metros. I don't think an Apple store exists in an area smaller than half a million people.

What you get



Valid point for Apple, however are these worth tripling your budget for the highest echelon of portable.



Apple is trying to argue quality when the issue is choice. You cannot buy a quality entry level 17 from Apple because they don't make one. If Apple is so black and white what they don't see the difference in segment beyond screen size, we might have some problems in the not too distant future. They're trying to push a Bimmer-7 to the Camry crowd and thinking they're similar markets.

Finally some one who is not biased... And I am sure you are not a "creative" or a mac developer. You are a merchant are you not?
post #80 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeasar View Post

Dude, please tell us who exactly do you consult? And I guess when you check their "macs" you would say: "Dude OMGWTFBBQ dont open itunes on you mac dude use a PeeCee!!11!!one"

Put the Xbox down, say goodnight to mum and go to your bed in your parent's basement. Facts over Flames fanboy.
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