Apple responds to Microsoft ads: "a PC is no bargain" - Page 2

When times are tough is the time to not take risks on junk. You need a sure bet, something that's going to keep its value for the most part.

My experience, from friends and family, is that you buy the cheap PC and it gradually grinds to a halt over a period of about a year. They don't know from virus protection, beyond running (a few times early on) whatever the sales guy talked them into a , or taking it in to the Best Buy for "repair", whereupon they're informed that it would be cheaper to just get a new PC, which, of course, is "much better." Which the do. The average home PC is disposable.

The real cost of a PC, as far as I can tell, should take into account the several iterations the average PC user will go through for every one the average Mac user does.

Have to say, gotta love the PC centric notion that not being adept at keeping an insecure system running properly is proof that Mac users are stupid. Judging from the people chiming in on this board, the average PC user is a bullying asshole that deserves to be kicked in the teeth a few times to shut them the fuck up.

I find it so very interesting how Apple has become a label, and almost a religion these days.
That and the age of internet and animosity make it so people can say and do some very hurtful things... all over a company and its products.

That said, I do wish the other companies would focus more on leaving Apple alone. No need to emulate them. Do your own thing, don't chase. That's how you will stand out. Apple's products (though over priced) stand out because they have something different about them. MS, Dell, HP, Toshiba, etc... figure out your own ways to stand out from the pack. Apple will be back to its 90's presence soon enough anyhow. MS, your days are numbered too if you continue down your path.

"They do need to own up that it sucks for business."

Dude, I'm in banking and I use a Mac. I'm a project manager who also does copy and publication work. Quickview alone makes my Mac better than any PC. I get my work done well over twice as fast as folks in other departments because of the reliability and streamlined ease of use of the OS. And, I've NEVER once called IT for any type of support.

Guys, for every Apple user's sake, please drop the wine analogy. For crying out loud, nothing could promote the snob stereotype more. You're basically just calling the customer a tasteless idiot... Not a great sales strategy.

A far better analogy would compare a product that is demonstrably more efficient and easier to use and maintain to the ostensibly cheaper counterpart -- e.g., a Toyota vs. a GM.

The wine thing doesn't work because the drinker will be completely satisfied with his $10 bottle. He'll get his buzz, save his $40, and never have to screw with viruses, part replacements, freezes, crappy apps, or miserable resale value 2 years after the fact.

Actually:

- Apple's kernel is open source (NT isn't).
- Apple uses many open source components such as OpenGL, OpenCL, ZFS and D-Trace (Microsoft would rather sue and issue patent threats and use their own proprietary solutions like Direct X and NTFS).
- Apple Webkit is open source (Microsoft uses their own proprietary Trident engine, Webkit canes it in every benchmark ever done).
- launchd is open source
- Bonjour is open source
- Quicktime streaming sever is open source.
- Darwin calendar server is open source
- Apple funds other open source projects such as CUPS, Clang
- Apple favours open solutions on the client side for web development, like HTML 5, Javascript (and the Sproutcore framework) and CSS 3 (Microsoft prefers their own proprietary Silverlight).
- Apple favours open solutions on the server side for web development, like Apache, Ruby on Rails and Python (Microsofts prefers ASP.NET and Windows Server, all propriety).
- Apple favours standards for digital audio (AAC) (Microsoft wanted everyone to use Windows Media)
- Apple favours stanards for digital video (H.264) (as above)
- Apple favours OpenDirectory and OpenLDAP (Microsoft favours proprietary solutions like Active Directory)
Mac OS X is UNIX and Fully POSIX-compliant (NT isn't)

I don't need to tell you Apple will favour in standards and interoperability, because the company's actions bare this out.

So how is Apple too proprietary compared to Microsoft?

Microsoft´s add campaigns seem to be targeted to the "Sarah Palins" of the world, whereas Mac adds are addressed to the other "cool" guy who won the elections.

Just a little political humor...

Has anyone posted the new laptop hunter ad yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbJSuduTrPs

Welcome to the message board, Galapagos, total posts two. After a few more posts you will realize that only half of the world laughs at any political joke, while the other half gets pissed. Posting such an incredibly witty political joke will tend to cause a thread to go to the crapper, please refrain in the future.

Hehe, yes, it's been making the rounds on AI, Macrumors, and even Neowin.

It's very clever.

If this weren't from someone with nearly 2500 posts over 18 months, I'd swear it was a troll.

I could never understand the Argument between Apple and Windows. I mean, Apple makes Hardware AND Software, Windows just (for the most part) makes Software/OS. If Apple actually allowed their OS to run on an HP or an IBM ThinkPad or something, I bet it would run just as bad as Windows Does. Windows on a Mac runs very well, albeit not as well as OS X does, but still. Apple makes the BEST Hardware, and this is why it is more expensive. If people actually complained about HP, Toshiba, IBM, Sony, Dell, Gateway, Acer, and all the other HARDWARE makers, maybe THEN something would be done to aleviate people's problems with Windows. They would still have to deal with Viruses and everything else, but it would at least be a step in the right direct.

Don't get me wrong, I love Macs, but I support Windows on a day to day basis and some of the PCs are slower than molasses.

snap!

The cool thing about open source is that you don't have to open-source the result of gluing this lot together into a coherent whole. It doesn't stop you licensing the software in such a way that it can't be installed on specific hardware, either.

On the whole, I found the Apple reps' statements persuasive. I take issue with the anti-virus point, though. I don't run any antivirus on my home PC. I've yet to receive a virus.

Best first post ever.

You're joking, right? I never heard such convoluted logic!

From Microsoft’s ‘I’m a PC’ Campaign Keeps Getting Stranger (With Videos)

Still waiting for a reply on this:

And this:

I'll try to paraphrase a quote made by a famous super-salesman. It may been Zig Ziglar but I don't know. Anyway...

"There will always exist a man who makes a product more cheaply, of less quality, and for a lower price. Those who consider price alone are the just prey of such men."

Not the exact words but close.

In my life experience I have found that you do generally get what you pay for. Quality and real value cost more, whether it's cars, food, or computers. A lot of people don't understand that. These are the "I got one just as good as (insert brand name product) for half the price" crowd. No they didn't.

Seriously anyone who remotely consider themselves as a geek and still recommends Sony computers needs to get their head checked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_So...ection_scandal

And if your Mac doesn't do what you want?



Which is great if you have unlimited budget. Nobody is arguing that that Macbook Pro isn't a much better machine, they're just arguing that not everybody would do well with a 17" screen needs that much notebook and Apple doesn't make a 17" whitebook.



The fuel and the day you have to take off of work to drive a couple of hours to the nearest Apple isn't free. It would be a better point if Apple stores were located outside the super-metros. I don't think an Apple store exists in an area smaller than half a million people.

What you get


Valid point for Apple, however are these worth tripling your budget for the highest echelon of portable.


Apple is trying to argue quality when the issue is choice. You cannot buy a quality entry level 17 from Apple because they don't make one. If Apple is so black and white what they don't see the difference in segment beyond screen size, we might have some problems in the not too distant future. They're trying to push a Bimmer-7 to the Camry crowd and thinking they're similar markets.

I think what most are missing here is the fact that Apple is simply saying. If you are going to compare Apple to Apples then do so! Its that simple. Microsoft on the other hand is trying to confuse people with selecting low cost and low quality computers and comparing them to the cost of a premium computer from Apple.

When you compare Apple and most of the Macs with the same quality as in Sony, HP, Lenovo, and Dell. You will get a better ideal of what you are buying. What Microsoft did here was compared Yugo with a BMW. Of course the BMW is going to look more expensive. But once you take in the consideration of total ownership and the quality of the Yugo vs. the BMW. You will see that a BMW has the overall better value.

The problem here is fact. Those who use Windows on their PC are always crying that us Mac owners/user are snobs. Yet, they are the ones that always talking down about the Mac. When I worked for IBM I had to deal with a Pro-Windows/PC Owner/User who loved to bash the Mac. Yet when I would bring my Mac in to work he couldn't take his hands off of it. But he would never own one.

What I have always dealt with over the years I have worked in the computer industry is the same ole line of BS. The person who bashes the Mac and the owner/user either has never taken the time to use a Mac. Only remember using a Mac back when the 512K Mac was around or just really has no clue.

Every friend I have met along the way has either owned a PC with Windows or Linux or some other OS on it. When I have shown them why I love my Mac it never fails I get the same old line of BS again. Yet when they have the money the first thing they is go look at and end up buying a Mac.

Mac's are not perfect but they are very close to perfection when it comes to computers. Another point missed is the fact that a computer should be a help to your every day life. It should not require you to figure our what the hell is going on. For my Geek friends I will not argue over the fact you like to take your computer apart to see what makes it tick. There are computers out there for you and you like what you have chosen. However, for those of us who prefer to turn on our computers use it and then shut it down or put it to sleep till we want to use it again are not looking to have to waste time in what the hell they just downloaded and what kind of effect it has their computer and or if their information is safe.

Apple has pretty much kept quiet about Microsoft and its misleading ads. I myself feel Apple should have went after Microsoft years ago. Microsoft does not make the computer... They do not design the computer... Microsoft is a company that buys other peoples hard work and slaps their name on the product. They have being doing this since at least DOS.

A Macintosh is just not a Mac because of one thing. Its from the whole, The computer, The OS and other software that is integrated and works. Too many people like to claim there is more software on the Windows side. When I used to work for CompUSA as Macintosh specialist I took the time to walk with my customer down the software. Of course they were amazed at the software selection. But, when I explained to them that the software they are looking at is 9 times out of 10 just a different version of the same software taking up aisle space and pointing the quality titles vs. the Mac quality titles they learned real quick the Mac was in fact on Par with The PC with software.

In the end people who really do they're shopping and really take time to think about their investment will make the best choice. Those who think a piece of blue plastic makes for a great computer will be the one calling foul when they can't get beyond turning the computer on.

A lot of people when they look at products make the mistake of buying on impulse. They see this shinny neat looking computer and buy it because the price saved them $400.00 that day. Then when they get it home they take time with it and learn to regret their purchase.

I looked at those neat little netbooks because I do want one that small. However, because I am used to buy Macs I took my time and looked over the who netbook I then saw the cheapness of them. Sure $300. for a netbook right on, Right? If it would have been a quality Mac I would have said lets do it. So, let those who think cheap up front is a bargin. In the end while they are frustrated with the crap they bough I am sipping my tea in Starbucks and writting this response.


Whew! - sorry I can get lost in this If you read this far you are better man then I LOL

We all know computers are just a fad anyways.

Exactly! Don't get me wrong, America is the greatest country in the world (after Thailand) But which company is the largest beverage company in the world, Coke, and what do they make? Crap! Which company is the largest restaurant chain in the world? McDonald's, and what do they make? Crap! Which company is the largest Car manufacturer in the world? GM, and what do they make? Crap! Which company is the largest SW manufacturer in the world? MicroSoft, and what do they make? Crap! Which company is the largest PC manufacturer in the world? HP, and what do they make? Crap!

I think both sides have some good arguments and a lot of bull*hit in their approach.

Apple's response is dignified, but not completely valid.

It is very easy to find free AV. There are, what? 3-4 decent and well known free AV solutions, and with popularity of Windows platforms, it is really hard not to know anyone who can recommend AV for you. And you have 60 days to find solution from friends or user forums. True, some people will purchase Norton, but stating that as a general rule is false. Number of Norton home users I have seen recently - here in NZ at least - is very low. I would say AVG is more common among home users than Norton at present.

Same applies to other statement; true there is value in additional software Macs are coming with. But... how many people really require, say, Garage Band kind of software? Is everyone going to create a web site..?

If one is user who actually needs all (or most) features of iLife, than there is absolutely huge value in Mac for such user. But for people who don't need iLife - or do need much more powerful software - such argument is not holding water. For some of them, transferring value (and price) of iLife into more horsepowers (Quad Cores, stronger graphics...), or getting what they need for less money, will be much more reasonable; thus Microsoft arguments might prove more reasonable for them.

How do you know? What if there is a virus in your PC sending out spam or collecting your keystrokes? Not running A/V means you'd never know it, right?

It is nothing like going into a wine store. Most people really can't tell the difference between a $10 and $50 bottle of wine. That is because there really is little difference in most cases. I used to work at a high end Country Club, very few people really know anything about wine. So, in that case why spend $50 if you have tasted the $10 and it tastes just as good to you.

The problem is most Windows users have not really tried a Mac. The reverse is true of Mac users. They have tried Windows. I have met some WIndows folks who think Macs run Windows.

Microsoft is right about one thing. You have a limited choice on Apple machines. However, this is because Apple doesn't want to offer junk computers. When you compare a Windows machine with Mac machine on features, Apple often wins on price or is very competitive.

Moreover, Macs tightly integrate software and hardware, where PCs can't do this because the hardware makers don't create the software.

You make yourself sound like a blowhard. Actually, what I said is grounded in reality. It may not apply to those who have immersed themselves inside the Apple ecosystem, but as for those in the PC world? Yes.

Unless Toyota ad claims they are actually better than Mercedes/BMW

I agree with TBell. Here in California, I find $10 wine too expensive. We've got something called "Two Buck Chuck" made right here in Napa Valley. It's great wine at a low price which makes it a great buy. By the same token, Macs running OS X are great computers at fair prices, which make them great buys. People with too much money who are seriously into appearances buy $50 bottles of wine. People who don't understand computing buy Windows machines.

Well, I'd like to be able to upgrade my 3000 dollar Mac Pro to play games. That's something I'd like my Mac to do...

You can only use 3 of the 4 GBs of ram in the HP laptop featured in the commercial, did you realize that? Why would HP include ram that windows cant even use? Why does microsoft want you to buy it?

I think once you answer the above question honestly, you'll realize how snarky you ended up.

IMO, of course. Heh.


p.s. The Windows security and PC repair industries are a multi-billion dollar a year segments. 'buy a cheap pc, steal software from dad' argument = not so good.

Of course Macs are "ready for business."

The problem is, IT departments aren't ready for Macs. With Macs in the enterprise there wouldn't be any IT departments.

Broken Windows keeps the entire IT industry in business. A whole industry has grown up around Windows' lousy code.

OMG you have got to be kidding. Are you a PM for Apple?

You are a PM... So I guess Sharepoint is inferior to "Mobile Me"

Curious what type of group do you manage? You mentioned copy and publication work. If you read my post you would have read that I mentioned a category for you called creative/design, but perhaps we can just leave you in a hybrid of "creative" and "idiot". haha Not too serious there bud.

Seriously I would love to know what you do and what you use without virtualization. Any major company does not run on any mac based platforms. However they do use them on 24 and the Apprentice. Great product placement. Perhaps they photoshop Donald's hair with the mac or use Photo Booth to undistort Joan Rivers.

WTF the point is dude that no one uses Macs in business, (Finance, Operations, Quants) and small businesses that I consult are pissed with their macs because they don't integrate with the rest of the business world.

But if you sell cupcakes online you should be OK.

And as far as Quick View... "Dude" please... Only good for pictures, like I said Macs are preferred for creative. However if you have a large volume of biz docs, dbs, logs, etc... Windows has a superior search that has just been released than spotlight.

Lots of malware floating around out there is very insidious. The user often doesn't even know they're infected. Sometimes there are no outward signs at all.

You could be part of a massive bot-net and not even know it.

Windows is bad enough even with antivirus installed. But without it, is about as good as a pair of thermal underwear in Death Valley at high noon.

Windows is, by the nature of its coding, a perpetually broken OS. This is due to MS' negligence. It's good code written on top of bad code, written on top of good code, written on top of bad code, etc.

There is absolutely no way whatsoever to truly "fix" it unless MS starts from scratch. A completely new OS. Along the lines of the OS 9 to OS X transition.

The problem is, that MS is still essentially the exact same company, with the exact same philosophy, exact same attitude toward the user, with the exact same understanding of design it had 15 years ago. That's the problem. It's still churning out products that are either bloated, confusing, broken, or all three.

Maybe things will be different with Windows 7. It won't be, because MS still doesn't run a closed system. Or at least, doesn't manage the one they have very well.

But we need MS, and there is a whole IT industry that needs Windows to be broken.

Moreover, without all those hardcore Windows gamers driving hardware demand, Apple wouldn't have nice Nvidia tech to put into their Macs.

So let's thank our lucky stars for Steve Ballmer. Every awkward, confusing MS keynote he does, ensures that Macs will not only look that much better in comparison, but will have wonderful 3D tech on the inside. And IT managers can sleep soundly, secure in the knowledge that the next day will bring even more Windows issues to earn them their pay.

Part you didn't mention but I think will work with this analogy - $50 bottle is that much more expensive not only for the wine itself, but for fancy wooden hand-made box, certificate and luxury history of wine region, famous people who enjoyed that specific wine etc.

And there is beautiful wine glass in the box as well.

But wine itself, while different, is not necessarily better; it boils down to matter of taste.

The "rest of the business world" (I assume you're leaving out the Creative/Design industry out entirely, LOL), runs on a broken paradigm. IT departments are fueled by Windows being and remaining broken.

The "rest of the business world" is unfortunately, wrong and in error. The very existence and robustness of the IT industry proves this. But as soon as a platform is pervasive enough due to cost and licensing, even if its is essentially broken and inefficient, it will still be used.

Good for you bud... You are a developer... Are just someone with too much time on your hands... That iBeer is something else.

Bud I am a fan of Mac... I have recommend them to everyone. I track there business moves. There are two sides to it all. I use everything. Web and server based dev, I use *nix. M$ is evil there for the little guy. And they make a shitload of mistakes.

I know about BSD and neXt and the Genius of Steve Jobs. And it is very developer friendly. From your point of view it is not what I was talking about.

Here is my point and it is a marketing/business commentary.

I was looking forward to more cross platform when they went with Intel... (they don't handle virtual load well)
They control distribution channels too much. Pricing, retailers, etc...
iPhone is restricted to one carrier. Apps have to be approved.
They missed the media boat with time capsule, and apple tv. All suck and are overpriced.
The monitors have sucked.
They push $300 applecare and expensive annual rates for mobile me.
They have the only high end tower that is tremendously limited for mod's because of hardware limitations (again a big disappointment with expectations from Intel)

The whole point is this... You are a total fanboy if you can't see some of the bad. I think they are great, they just need to improve. The problem is the company is full of blinded fanboys like you and it needs a critical but honest review.

I bet some assholes on here will argue that a mouse with one button is good and that their monitors are a great deal.

Dude, please tell us who exactly do you consult? And I guess when you check their "macs" you would say: "Dude OMGWTFBBQ dont open itunes on you mac dude use a PeeCee!!11!!one"

Finally some one who is not biased... And I am sure you are not a "creative" or a mac developer. You are a merchant are you not?

Put the Xbox down, say goodnight to mum and go to your bed in your parent's basement. Facts over Flames fanboy.