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Cap and Trade - Don't buy the lie, it is a tax.

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
WSJ.com

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HumanEvents.com

Quote:
Politicians love cap and trade because they can claim to be taxing "polluters," not workers. Hardly. Once the government creates a scarce new commodity -- in this case the right to emit carbon -- and then mandates that businesses buy it, the costs would inevitably be passed on to all consumers in the form of higher prices. Stating the obvious, Peter Orszag -- now Mr. Obama's budget director -- told Congress last year that "Those price increases are essential to the success of a cap-and-trade program."

Hit hardest would be the "95% of working families" Mr. Obama keeps mentioning, usually omitting that his no-new-taxes pledge comes with the caveat "unless you use energy." Putting a price on carbon is regressive by definition because poor and middle-income households spend more of their paychecks on things like gas to drive to work, groceries or home heating.

Quote:
1) What this is, of course, is a de facto business tax that will get passed along to workers and consumers. (Not to mention the impact on economic growth.) And not a small tax, at that. Over that same period, the White House expects regular corporate taxes to bring in some $3.8 trillion dollars. So the cap-and-trade auction impose an additional 20 percent tax or cost above that level. And remember that we already have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world.

2) Of that $80 billion, $15 billion would go toward "clean" energy investment. The rest would pay for his Making Work Pay tax credits. So what we have is, in essence, an enormous wealth transfer from job creators to consumers.

Quote:
First, as Al Gore confessed to the Financial Times, going through the front door of a direct energy tax is too risky. Hence the cap-and-trade rationing scheme; its a tax but a non-transparent one, also making it vastly less efficient (more expensive) according to economists at, for example, the Congressional Budget Office. The message to lawmakers is to worry about one job: yours. Hide the tax. The part about also doubling the tax seems to be all Obamas idea.

Second, cap-and-trade shows that business has also learned how to sell its support in return for additional schemes to further pick your pocket, siphoning of some of the cost to themselves. Cap-and-trade provides them billions of your dollars in return for playing along

Cap and trade, it is the good intention lie that ends up being a very large tax increase on the 95% that were being told they weren't going to have their taxes raised. It raises the cost of energy and thus unless you can prove you don't use energy, it is a tax on you.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #2 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

WSJ.com

USNews

HumanEvents.com







Cap and trade, it is the good intention lie that ends up being a very large tax increase on the 95% that were being told they weren't going to have their taxes raised. It raises the cost of energy and thus unless you can prove you don't use energy, it is a tax on you.

I haven't looked into this area much yet, so I can't really comment on it. But, if you look at how much stuff is on the back seats of all the suv's driving back home from the mall, you'll notice that it could quite easily fit into the glove-box, instead. If it helps get those ego maniacs out of their pretty, pretty suv's it might not be a bad idea. But I don't know yet whether it affects that at all. Will research....
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #3 of 9
Nick, that's the point.

We either directly tax environmentally damaging actions or we do cap and trade which is effectively a tax.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #4 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

If it helps get those ego maniacs out of their pretty, pretty suv's it might not be a bad idea.

A big gas guzzling car is like a Peacock tail - it is a evolutionary marker that shows perspective mates that you are rich. The harder it is to get, the more people will want it.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #5 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

A big gas guzzling car is like a Peacock tail - it is a evolutionary marker that shows perspective mates that you are rich. The harder it is to get, the more people will want it.

Yup, here's something to back that up.

I had a friend in the US for a while that liked to drink and on a date whilst drunk with her boyfriend ran off the road and ended up, upside down in his Navigator and promptly made out with the guy in it, both drunk and upside down!
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #6 of 9
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Nick, that's the point.

We either directly tax environmentally damaging actions or we do cap and trade which is effectively a tax.

The point is that when people protest this, you don't tell them their eyes and ears have seen and heard wrong because they are getting a "tax cut" and thus should shut up since they have been bought off.

People aren't stupid. As you note, that is the point, they see the tax, know it will fall on them and are pushing back. The people reporting on the tax won't call it a tax and the people protesting the tax are being portrayed in a bad light being told that they are deluded and that they aren't going to be taxed.

If people go about this honestly, endorse it and it goes to work, that is all fine. What bugs me is when people see the reality of it, state their opinion and are told they are deluded.

Hardee, you were honest. You said of course it is a tax. That is the purpose of the thread.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #7 of 9
There's really no other way to explain it, is there? A tax by any other name...

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #8 of 9
Thread Starter 

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #9 of 9
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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