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Apple begins bidding for Mac netbook manufacturing contract - Page 3

post #81 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

... I fear that if it is priced reasonably, Apple will restrict the device in silly arbitrary ways...

It will be restricted no doubt ~ think of it as a higher-end iPhone 3G rather than a low-end Mac. No full [Snow]Leopard. That's what I think.

Even worse, possibly, it comes with an AT&T plan because it has 3G built in. Something weird like that to do with the telco because it has 3G built into the netbook.

App Store model to download apps and so-on.

So very likely to be "restricted", this tablet/netbook/MacTouch.

Basically ownership of this tablet/netbook/MacTouch will be "subsidised" by signing on to the telco's 3g-for-this-device plan. In light of the economy, contracts and subsidies are the way to go, while for the Mac Apple will continue its existing revenue/profit model.

In terms of scaling out across the world the device would be expanded from existing iPhone 3G relationships with telcos.

Apple has to position this MacTouch so that iPod, iPhone, Mac lines remain non-cannibalised.

Their App Store model and iPhone OS 3.0+ model is strong enough to handle something like MacTouch OS as a new system for developers. Such as editing word documents, etc. on the MacTouch.
post #82 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyteProsector View Post

through the use of proximity sensors the keyboard will switch back and forth from key board to full sized track pad. Two hands at the device will bring up the keyboard whereas one hand will bring up the trackpad.

I'd say that's suitably evolutionary (unless you only happen to have only one hand!).

But would the keyboard need to be virtual or even to disappear to use it as a trackpad?

Apple's chickets are flat so if you remove the spaces between them to accomodate the smaller screen your fingers could gently gloss over the top of them as one continuous surface. simply press on whatever key you are above to trigger the mouseclick. Keyboard backlighting could fade to indicate the keyboard is in trackpad mode.
post #83 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Ingersol View Post

If they release a netbook-class product running OS X, people will load desktop software on it and complain about performance/battery/ui/etc. It sets up expectations (laptop-class experience) that technology can't (yet) deliver on..

People put desktop apps on netbooks all the time, and are really happy with what they get for the size and price. All the things a basic computer should do, they do quite fine. Some people have even had decent success running more intensive programs like Photoshop. The advantage over a touch/phone interface is they have a real keyboard, a real file system, a removable battery, an SD card reader, and the user has control over what apps, plug-ins, and codecs they want.
post #84 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

People put desktop apps on netbooks all the time, and are really happy with what they get for the size and price. All the things a basic computer should do, they do quite fine. Some people have even had decent success running more intensive programs like Photoshop. The advantage over a touch/phone interface is they have a real keyboard, a real file system, a removable battery, an SD card reader, and the user has control over what apps, plug-ins, and codecs they want.

I can guarantee you Apple won't want you to run iLife, iWork, OfficeMac on the MacTouch. Okay, not guarantee, just my gut instinct.

Hackers will no doubt be able to install [Snow]Leopard on it... But there will be quite a number of hoops to jump through.
post #85 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I can guarantee you Apple won't want you to run iLife, iWork, OfficeMac on the MacTouch. Okay, not guarantee, just my gut instinct.

Hackers will no doubt be able to install [Snow]Leopard on it... But there will be quite a number of hoops to jump through.

So what, they'd prefer we buy an MSI Wind or a Dell Mini9 and install full OS X on that, rather than allowing us to give our money to Apple?
post #86 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

....but how long can I hold out? Methinks I will buy a 15" MacBook Pro- at least it has firewire. Now if only I could get rid of the black keys, black border, and glossy screen. It looks a bit too much like my Victor AntiMicrobial Calculator at work- silver, black keys, black border and glossy display. And it didn't copy Apple- it's 2 years old.

I hear ya with the black keys. Sort of PC ish or old PowerBook.

Having apple friends meant I bought a new MacBook pro every six month. This time I stopped at the last refresh. Bought one of the last 2.4 15" non unibody and plan in keeping it for years, Lord willing.

Not only am I a fan of the old construction but the uni bodys are easier and cheaper to make and IMHO, lack refinement. I do like the glossy screens though. In fact, I just pick up a discountinued HP w2408h with hdmi 1920x1200, looks awesome and just as nice as Apples 24 but mine cost $269. Was $600 back in December. Looks good from angles up, down, side to side.

With new netbook, I hope they are priced to sell and jobs, unlike his iMac quest if getting these in every consumers hands( they didn't, they ended up in music agents, asstants, arts), that the netbook is positioned like the iPhone and sells to the masses with emphasis on .mac and connectivity and grows marketshare. If priced to high, it won't do very well. Problem is, there will probably be a data package that will increase the yearly cost. Not sure how Apple can get around this.
post #87 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

It will be restricted no doubt ~ think of it as a higher-end iPhone 3G rather than a low-end Mac. No full [Snow]Leopard. That's what I think.

Well I'm expecting a iPhone OS based device myself. There are a number of reasons for that and app store is one of them.
Quote:

Even worse, possibly, it comes with an AT&T plan because it has 3G built in. Something weird like that to do with the telco because it has 3G built into the netbook.

So is this really a bad thing? Let's face it if you sell a device with a cellular modem it won't be of much use without a contract. Given that Apple could always take the iPhone/Touch approach and offer a model without the hardware. For many people looking for a small device connectivity is important, it is what gives the iPhone a huge advantage over the Touch.
Quote:

App Store model to download apps and so-on.

Yeah this part is very important in my mind, app store is sort of like a Linux repository for a distribution. In on facility it wraps up convience, choice and security. Actually a app store for the Mac would be nice too.
Quote:

So very likely to be "restricted", this tablet/netbook/MacTouch.

I'm not sure what you mean by restricted. It is an alternative way of doing things. One that benefits the consummer more some want to acknowledge.
Quote:

Basically ownership of this tablet/netbook/MacTouch will be "subsidised" by signing on to the telco's 3g-for-this-device plan. In light of the economy, contracts and subsidies are the way to go, while for the Mac Apple will continue its existing revenue/profit model.

Well you are simply wrong about the economy on a number of fronts. For one it isn't as bad as some make it out to be. Second; contracts are a very bad thing for the consummer and in the case of a real recession or depression a very bad thing for a corporation to be involved in.

The problem with contracts is that in a depression people can't leave themselves exposed fianacially. You just don't buy on credit things you don't need for survival. Especially if that contract significantly inflates the cost of an item which it generally does.
Quote:
In terms of scaling out across the world the device would be expanded from existing iPhone 3G relationships with telcos.

True. But I suspect that Apple will have a Touch variant to go along with the cellular modem variant. Mostly because I'm hoping Apple realize many will not want or need that contract.
Quote:

Apple has to position this MacTouch so that iPod, iPhone, Mac lines remain non-cannibalised.

Don't you know cannibalized is a banned word!

In any event they need to do nothing of the sort, the device would just be another member of the family. It would be an iPod in every sense of the word. Deep down your statement makes no sense as we are taliking a form factor that doesn't even exist in Apples line up. It is like saying Touch cannibalizes the sale of Shuffles.

Quote:
Their App Store model and iPhone OS 3.0+ model is strong enough to handle something like MacTouch OS as a new system for developers. Such as editing word documents, etc. on the MacTouch.

One could edit Word on the iPhone if it had enough memory so I don't know what you are talking about. IPhone OS is already a robust operating system and user space provider. It's only limitation is the hardware it runs on.

Put simply there is no reason to fear a device running iPhone OS. It has just about every feature that serious software requires. The possible exception being dynamic linking to third party libraries. More importantly it is lean and can easily morph to support additional capabilities.



Dave
post #88 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

So what, they'd prefer we buy an MSI Wind or a Dell Mini9 and install full OS X on that, rather than allowing us to give our money to Apple?

Honestly I think Apple sees the current batch of netbook users as a pathetic lot. That is reinforced by my own observations of netbook users.

It is like this netbook users look like they enjoy punishment, at least when using their device. It is an universal reality that these users are always about a foot from the screen just to make out what is on screen. Typeing is always hunt and peck method.

What I'm hoping for is that Apple recognizes the issues and wants to come up with alternative devices that better meet consummer needs. The OS and it's applications tool kit is an important element in meeting user need, the ability to run legacy apps isn't. Plus if the hardware continues to run ARM it throws Mac OS out of the running simply to reduce consummer confusion.

So yeah took around with your bootleg Mac OS install because Apple has recognized the limitations of the current versions of Mac OS on small devices. Apple is going to find a better way to deliver a positive user experience for small devices.



Dave
post #89 of 98
MacTouch won't use a full version of OS/X.


I think they may do a 2 screen model if they don't just do a tablet.

The bottom screen would be a touchscreen aka a highly customizable input device. It will display a keyboard when you need it or the whole thing can be a trackpad or depending on the app it can become a menu-icon-button tray.

Take iPhoto - you don't really need a keyboard much when using that app. The top screen would show your photo while the bottom screen would display thumbnails of other photos in your event and some basic commmands/menu options. Anytime you enter a text box the keyboard pops up.

The touchscreen could recognize the difference between pressing a button on the touchscreen and doing gestures/swipes.

OF course iPhoto on this thing will be a nerfed mobile version.

Same sorta thing with iTunes.

One reason why they won' t use a full version of OS/X is the screen size. Apple has some tiny buttons as it is in their OS. The scroll bar and arrows and minimize/maximize buttons are tiny. Also using Finder would be a pain on the tiny screen. Another reason will be lack of power. A tiny device won't have the power to run OS/X and, unlike the Windows world, Apple has some set of mininum standard here in terms of customer experience that they like to provide. Just slapping OS/X onto an underpowered device isn't their MO.

They also will want to extend battery life.

Last I believe Apple is born to develop digital consumer electronics as we've witnessed starting with the iPod. I can't think of another company that develops top notch software and hardware integrates both on the scale Apple does. They have the design and marketing down as well. This is the big Apple advantage.

Contrast that with MS and Sony who have talents in software and hardware, but neither is known to be experts in both fields.
post #90 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

just the pocari sweat from the vending machines in sony hq, tokyo?

Heh, heh. I've actually had that. A bad English translation of a product name, though.... I much prefer "Coffee Boss".

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post #91 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

Obviously there is a market for a Mac netbook. It's just comes down to price, and I fear that if it is priced reasonably, Apple will restrict the device in silly arbitrary ways.

But if course, they are Apple after all.
Still, if they want to get this device inti the masses, they will have to break away from the typical 400% markup. Google this and you'll see some products are marked up 400%+.

What I think would be cool is a device that lasts long yet you could dock with another device and pick up more CPU GPU power which would make it to all portable devices in time.

Still, if it's a departure from the standard and not to crippled, expect to pay a high premium for the Apple tax design, even though it would be cheap to manufacture. I thought when they went to intel we would see better savings as gpu and CPU prices went down, never happened, in fact, prices went up.

Hope that msft marketing and new palm pre and android takes a chunk of apple as we could use some competition to drive down prices.
post #92 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Heh, heh. I've actually had that. A bad English translation of a product name, though.... I much prefer "Coffee Boss".

I love the stuff, to be honest. After a couple of hours of sport in summer, it's better than gatorade and all the other sports drinks. One of my friends is a Boss Coffee fanatic, esp. in winter in Japan. He buys a couple of hot cans from the vending machine and straight into the coat pockets to keep hands warm! Anyhow, we digress...
"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
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"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
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post #93 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post

...
Existing netbooks, such as the MSI Wind series, do a very decent job with just slightly scaled down conventional keyboards that require very little compromise on the part of the user. I'd rather see something like a MacBook air but with the smaller 10" screen footprint and a more affordable SSD.

I own a netbook (eeePC 1000h) and it sucks. They all suck because no real design-oriented manufacturer like apple has put thought into actual usage patterns of said device.

The keyboard is barely usable, but I can make do.... what really bugs me is the trackpad software is abysmal at detecting clicks and randomly clicks when I type, unless I turn off the touch to click. The 2 macbooks I have owned were the first to get that part right (the AL macbook is amazing in the amount of "intelligence" displayed by the trackpad drivers).

I don't think that's too difficult to do, and that's the reason I don't think Apple will go for it... too low of a barrier to entry for other manu's once Apple has "legitimized" the market and allowed margins to increase.

I wouldn't mind an Apple netbook, but I'd prefer a big brother to the Ipod Touch, as noone has really made a usable tablet that works with fatfinger pointers and multi-touch.
post #94 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

In my opinion, the best netbook is a netbook sized tablet. Get rid of the keyboard and make the thing smaller and lighter. It is "net book" after all and trying to write an essay using that small keyboard is not better than writing it on a touch keyboard. However, it will probably have a learning curve and will increase whining volume on many internet forums. I just hope Apple don't follow MS in including a starters OS.

Hear, hear. For those who need the keyboard, the stylish wireless bluetooth keyboard should suffice.

My only fear with such a device is that it will be nerfed to avoid competing with the existing laptop or desktop lines by limiting the ports available (esp. display port).

A grand vision would be a one of these connected to a large monitor, acting as a giant trackpad, with wireless mouse and keyboard available. That would be a dream tool for any real expressive interface oriented application (3D modeling, paint... real multitouch could drive insane new killer apps).
post #95 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

So what, they'd prefer we buy an MSI Wind or a Dell Mini9 and install full OS X on that, rather than allowing us to give our money to Apple?

Yup, that's what people are doing now with PC netbooks and PCs and Gaming PCs ... not buying iMacs, Macbook Airs, Mac Pros... But Apple is counting that *enough* people *will buy* the Mac Touch, iMac, Macbook Air, Mac Pro, etc.

I bought a self-assembled PC for gaming. No need for hackintosh, 'coz as it is my white Macbook Core Duo still lives... But the iMac GT130 doesn't come anywhere close to the price/performance of my AMD Athlon X2 3GHZ (overclocked) and ATI Radeon 4830 512MB RAM (700mhz overclocked).

Tell you what though, self-assembling/ DIY/ beigebox/ Dell and Vista is no joke, needs research and some luck to have a overall excellent experience. Same with hackintosh, I'd imagine.

Apple is counting on enough people not doing that and just buying Apple and living with it. Buying an iPhone 3G and not jailbreaking it. Buying a Mac Touch and using it as it is. *Enough* people.

That's the way I look at it, I guess.
post #96 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by r00fus View Post

... real multitouch could drive insane new killer apps).

Apple *won't* restrict that. Even if the MacTouch had a custom OS X and App Store model. Imagine the musical instruments! Magic shows! Games! Google Maps/Earth! ... Yup there's gonna be some real insane apps. Minority Report esque stuff, Microsoft's Surface... except on a 10" tablet.

Then the 10" will start to chew into the 13" space ... Maybe in 5 years tablets will really gain some ground... Oh we are such slaves to the screen/keyboard model that goes back so many decades. Will Apple finally free us?
post #97 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

just the pocari sweat from the vending machines in sony hq, tokyo?

well, I do own a Rolly.
post #98 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

I love the stuff, to be honest. After a couple of hours of sport in summer, it's better than gatorade and all the other sports drinks. One of my friends is a Boss Coffee fanatic, esp. in winter in Japan. He buys a couple of hot cans from the vending machine and straight into the coat pockets to keep hands warm! Anyhow, we digress...

Man here in Asia we get limited access to Pokka drinks. I would love to be in Japan and have unfettered, full access to all kinds of drinks Pokka offers...! That milk tea Pokka in that small can... Unexplainedly delightful. They had a good honey lemon green tea or something in 1.5 litre bottles, that's no longer at my local supermarket grocer (which has a lot of other Japanese stuff).
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