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Global Warming

Poll Results: Are humans the primary cause of global warming?

 
  • 67% (25)
    Yes
  • 24% (9)
    No
  • 8% (3)
    Other (Please Elaborate)
37 Total Votes  
post #1 of 291
Thread Starter 
Is it happening?

Is it man-made?

Is it stoppable?

Does it need to be stopped?

Discuss.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #2 of 291
Thread Starter 
Sorry. My bad. Didn't use the search feature.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=93403

But I'll keep this one up because it has a poll.

As I stated in another thread, I do not believe global warming is caused by humans. Also, I do not believe that global warming is a catastrophic danger to the earth.

http://www.petitionproject.org/

Update: More Than 700 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims

The Great Global Warming Swindle

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #3 of 291
i agree for many reasons
also the sun is "quiet" perhaps we need to think of beginning of an ice age
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I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #4 of 291
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8008473.stm
Quote:
Quote:
Prof Lockwood was one of the first researchers to show that the Sun's activity has been gradually decreasing since 1985, yet overall global temperatures have continued to rise.
"If you look carefully at the observations, it's pretty clear that the underlying level of the Sun peaked at about 1985 and what we are seeing is a continuation of a downward trend (in solar activity) that's been going on for a couple of decades.
"If the Sun's dimming were to have a cooling effect, we'd have seen it by now."

I'd suggest reading the whole article.
post #5 of 291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8008473.stm

I'd suggest reading the whole article.

Aren't the effects of the sun on the earth's climate delayed by several years? I suggest looking into those links I posted.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #6 of 291
Of course it's man-made.

Even the relatively small amount of CO2 in the atmosphere makes the earths surface about 59℉ warmer, which is all natural and fine and good. But pump CO2 into the atmosphere and before long the whole planet's going to get warmer!! Add 6 billion tons of heat trapping CO2 annually, globally and the effects mount up. Whether it's through oil, gas coal or deforestation etc, the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere right now, is at a 420,000 year high, according to scientists. Just 20 years ago the level was 280 parts per million, now it's over 370.9 parts per million within a few more decades it's thought it could well be around 500 parts per million.

By the way jazzguru that films junk!
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post #7 of 291
post #8 of 291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

By the way jazzguru that films junk!

Didn't agree with it?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

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post #9 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Didn't agree with it?

Put it this way, it fits neatly into the Ron Paul junk your fond of.

You guys really need to stop simplifying everything to make yourselves feel better. Good luck in another ten years trying to explain away more problems caused by CO2.
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post #10 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

By the way jazzguru that films junk!

It's a joke is what it is. It's been discussed, dissected and ridiculed (as it should've been) here in AO before. Cheap propaganda.

This place is like groundhog day sometimes.
post #11 of 291
We humans really need to put a stop to all these volcanic eruptions and under-sea vents !

These things pump more CO2 into the air per day than human industry does in a year... I'm just not CONVINCED that humans have any effect on the GLOBAL temperature.
Nobody knows if the "warming" of late is caused by humans or just part of a natural cycle that would occur without us. Really. "They" don't know!!
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #12 of 291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Put it this way, it fits neatly into the Ron Paul junk your fond of.

You guys really need to stop simplifying everything to make yourselves feel better. Good luck in another ten years trying to explain away more problems caused by CO2.

Did you watch the film in its entirety?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #13 of 291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilsch View Post

It's a joke is what it is. It's been discussed, dissected and ridiculed (as it should've been) here in AO before. Cheap propaganda.

This place is like groundhog day sometimes.

No comment on my other links, then?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #14 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Did you watch the film in its entirety?

Yes I did. And it's as misleading as some of the other things, in a similar vein I have seen, read and heard. That's not to say it's all wrong, but like so many documentaries it omits evidence and distorts things.

I don't have a good grasp of this area yet and my opinions regarding it are still forming, however the misrepresentation is fundamentally off the scales.

The fact is, that CO2 levels are rising through man's activities, putting huge amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere. Whilst it's true (and necessary) to have CO2 naturally in the atmosphere through oceans etc, that level is in a natural balance with other forces in nature. Until recently! Now we are adding CO2 and other trace elements at a massive pace to that approximately 600th of the atmosphere. At CO2 natural levels it accounts for a warming of the planet of 59℉, by adding CO2 the temperature has increased in accordance with the impact of adding that CO2 by on average 0.6℃ ( nothing, let me repeat nothing to do with the sun- of course the sun effects temperature and the CO2 levels in history have been effected by natural cycles-but this is NOT RELATED to the 0.6 temperature change!!!!!!) and in some areas the temperature changes are more prominent than others due to graphical location. Further heights in temperature will cause major problems. Estimates of sea level rises are about 1 metre by the end of this century, which will have catastrophic impacts on huge numbers of people and on and on.....
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post #15 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Yes I did. And it's as misleading as some of the other things, in a similar vein I have seen, read and heard. That's not to say it's all wrong, but like so many documentaries it omits evidence and distorts things...

Unlike "An Inconvenient Truth" which distorted or omitted nothing.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #16 of 291
The fact is that if you push up the CO2 level in the atmosphere it creates warming. The relationship between CO2's rise in the atmosphere is directly related to what man is adding, other factors of course exist, but get this part clear.http://zfacts.com/p/194.html as the graph shows. This is what global warming is all about. There are obviously going to discussions and disagreements between scientists as to how the planets relationship between natures forces have shaped the planet over thousands and millions of years. But there is no disputing this recent man-made raise in CO2 and global warming despite all the other forces which effect it.

If you and others wish to carry on believing it's nothing more than a farce, you are being mislead and will help to make the extremely serious problems worse.
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post #17 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

Unlike "An Inconvenient Truth" which distorted or omitted nothing.

I agree with you, look at the problem from different perspectives. The one true thing though, is that CO2 levels are currently rising in relation to what man's activities is putting in. This man- made impact is causing a small temperature rise which is undeniably related to the CO2 in the atmosphere and that that small rise is having a dramatic effect. If you want to believe otherwise go ahead, but remember you will be effected, and already are by climate change.
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post #18 of 291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

But there is no disputing this recent man-made raise in CO2 and global warming despite all the other forces which effect it.

The dispute is with the bogus notion that man-made CO2 is causing "catastrophic" global warming. Furthermore, many dispute the fact that global warming is harmful at all, regardless of what is causing it.

http://www.petitionproject.org/

http://www.petitionproject.org/review_article.php <----Read the entire PDF linked on this page.

You can't just summarilly dismiss or ignore 31,000+ scientists (9,000+ of them with PhDs).

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #19 of 291
The argument that emissions cause global warming is irrelevant - it's in our best interests to pollute less. Clean up after yourself and if you don't then someone will make a law requireing you to. I'm OK with laws mandating levels of emissions and such.

I'm totally against the trade of "carbon credits" though.
post #20 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

The dispute is with the bogus notion that man-made CO2 is causing "catastrophic" global warming. Furthermore, many dispute the fact that global warming is harmful at all, regardless of what is causing it.

http://www.petitionproject.org/

http://www.petitionproject.org/review_article.php <----Read the entire PDF linked on this page.

You can't just summarilly dismiss or ignore 31,000+ scientists (9,000+ of them with PhDs).

Jazzguru I'm not dismissing all the scientific evidence you present, like I thought I had made clear. I will re-post when I have some time soon as I'm busy now.

Just skimmed through that pdf. It's good for a laugh, beyond that it's worthless. I truly feel sorry for you guys, but I'm sure the coal industry loves you.
Next you'll be saying oil spills are good for the birds!

Here's part of the conclusion in your pdf-

"The CO2 produced does, however, accelerate the growth rates of plants and also permits plants to grow in drier regions. Animal life, which depends upon plants, also flourishes, and the diversity of plant and animal life is increased." and "We are living in an increasingly lush environment of plants and animals as a result of this CO2 increase."

Not conventional thinking that's for sure. Maybe we should just burn more and more coal, no need for renewables, so we can have a global Eden. Funny you guys think it does so much, but that it doesn't cause any warming how convenient!
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post #21 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

The dispute is with the bogus notion that man-made CO2 is causing "catastrophic" global warming. Furthermore, many dispute the fact that global warming is harmful at all, regardless of what is causing it.

http://www.petitionproject.org/

http://www.petitionproject.org/review_article.php <----Read the entire PDF linked on this page.

You can't just summarilly dismiss or ignore 31,000+ scientists (9,000+ of them with PhDs).

This "petition" has had problems with it's methods, qualifications, etc. since it's inception.
Skeptics
Quote:
He even seems to think that persons with Bachelors degrees in mathematics and engineering are relevant and qualified experts on the issue. This seems to make about as much sense as considering electricians to be experts on plumbing because they have certificates from trade school just as plumbers do

.
His reasoning for including the unqualified,
Quote:
Robinson said In fact, climate science is a very simple discipline. The data is [are] very limited and very easily understoodas is illustrated in our review article7 I wonder what percentage of climatologists or Earth scientists would agree with Robinson about this. Robinson doesnt seem to have much respect for their area of specialization.
post #22 of 291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

This "petition" has had problems with it's methods, qualifications, etc. since it's inception.



Again with the "try to discredit the source to avoid addressing the issues raised by the source" angle?

Geez. Well, I don't blame you. It seems to be the MO for politicians and journalists alike these days.

Did you read that 12 page PDF? That eSkeptic opinion piece mentions it in passing, but only focuses on trying to discredit the petition process itself, carefully avoiding trying to refute anything in the PDF itself.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #23 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post



Again with the "try to discredit the source to avoid addressing the issues raised by the source" angle?

Geez. Well, I don't blame you. It seems to be the MO for politicians and journalists alike these days.

Did you read that 12 page PDF? That eSkeptic opinion piece mentions it in passing, but only focuses on trying to discredit the petition process itself, carefully avoiding trying to refute anything in the PDF itself.

So?
Inflating a cause by dubious methods is never a good idea, no matter who does it.
Makes you wonder why.

The PDF. has had it's skeptics as well and was probably discussed here as well.

Try a search here with Global Warming in the criteria.

I'm on dial up, fucking pain.


Okay, I did a search, Threads started by an old favorite here,

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...Global+Warming

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...Global+Warming

Don't have time to reread these now, but I'm sure they're entertaining.
post #24 of 291
I feel that the 3 choices presented by this poll do a disservice to the topic at hand. The discussion would be more productive if not framed in such a manner.

What really matters is if changes in human behavior will avert the negative consequences of climate change. It matters less, what percentage humans may or may not have contributed to the trend.

Certainly it would be useful for understanding the subject fully. But even if it were concluded that humans contributed only a small percentage, it would still be possible that action now could lead to a drastically different outcome. The two are related, but when the topic is approached from "are humans primarily responsible?", that concept tends to be conflated with whether or not we can do anything about it.


Also, the subject is muddied when it is tied to whether or not global warming is real. In my mind, the two should always debated separately. First, whether or not the global climate change is real. And second whether humans should modify their behavior to prevent adverse climate change.
post #25 of 291
I agree with the first sentence dfiler.

The rest I'm open to.
post #26 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

... The one true thing though, is that CO2 levels are currently rising in relation to what man's activities is putting in. This man- made impact is causing a small temperature rise which is undeniably related to the CO2 in the atmosphere and that that small rise is having a dramatic effect...

1... It has NOT been proven that the rise is in any way connected to humans and our industry... it is speculated... but we simply have not been taking measurements for nearly long enough to determine if we are having ANY effect geologically. Maybe we are, but it is NOT A PROVEN FACT.

2... What, exactly, is the "dramatic effect" that this small rise is having ??? There have been several theories of certain FUTURE "dramatic events" that MIGHT happen... but, again, no real evidence that anything IS HAPPENING.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #27 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

1... It has NOT been proven that the rise is in any way connected to humans and our industry... it is speculated... but we simply have not been taking measurements for nearly long enough to determine if we are having ANY effect geologically. Maybe we are, but it is NOT A PROVEN FACT.

2... What, exactly, is the "dramatic effect" that this small rise is having ??? There have been several theories of certain FUTURE "dramatic events" that MIGHT happen... but, again, no real evidence that anything IS HAPPENING.

It's beyond me how you can say that. Have you researched it at all?

Antarctica contains 70% of the worlds fresh water which has been locked up in the form of ice for hundreds of thousands of years. Those ice sheets, often more than 3 miles high covering four to five million square miles, which is larger than the size of China and India combined are melting, cracking and breaking away. The British Atlantic Survey and the University of Colorado reported back in 1999, that global warming has lengthened the annual Melting season there by 3 weeks. The average temperature in Antarctica has been almost constant since the beginning of man. Since though, 1950 the temperature there has risen by 4.5℉, which has pushed summer temperatures there well above the critical freezing point of 32℉. If that doesn't concern you, nothing will.
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post #28 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

It's beyond me how you can say that. Have you researched it at all?

Antarctica contains 70% of the worlds fresh water which has been locked up in the form of ice for hundreds of thousands of years. Those ice sheets, often more than 3 miles high covering four to five million square miles, which is larger than the size of China and India combined are melting, cracking and breaking away. The British Atlantic Survey and the University of Colorado reported back in 1999, that global warming has lengthened the annual Melting season there by 3 weeks. The average temperature in Antarctica has been almost constant since the beginning of man. Since though, 1950 the temperature there has risen by 4.5℉, which has pushed summer temperatures there well above the critical freezing point of 32℉. If that doesn't concern you, nothing will.

This was mostly covered in the threads I posted links to a couple of posts above.

Why we keep on posting the same stuff over and over again, even though it's easy to keep a thread going is beyond me.
post #29 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

It's beyond me how you can say that. Have you researched it at all?....

My point is, NONE of that has been proven to be tied to human industry.

You do realize that there have been global warming and coolingcycles fro ages, right?... these cycles have been going on long before humans even existed ... much less had any significant industrial base.

So yes... Ice caps may be receding ... but no-one has provided any evidence (much less proof) that it is caused by me. It's quite possible that we couldn't stop it, slow it, or even accelerate it even if we wanted to. Having seen the polar ice cap with my own eyes, I'm not too worried yet.

Yes, I recycle... yes, I try to limit the amount of pollution I make (my boat is wind-powered ), but I have no desire to go back to an agrarian society... I like things made of plastic, electricity, the ability to travel all over the world...


If the "powers that be" were really concerned about the fate of the earth, they would realize that there's not much we feeble humans can do about it. Perhaps they should quit spending all their money playing a global version of "my god's better than your god" and put that money into establishing a human presence OFF the earth ... I'll not hold my breath.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #30 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

This was mostly covered in the threads I posted links to a couple of posts above.

Why we keep on posting the same stuff over and over again, even though it's easy to keep a thread going is beyond me.

Do you really expect someone called KingOfSomewhereHot, would be against global warming, hence learn the facts!?
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post #31 of 291
Thread Starter 
By using an incandescent light bulb, am I destroying the planet?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

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post #32 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Do you really expect someone called KingOfSomewhereHot, would be against global warming, hence learn the facts!?

No.
I don't.
post #33 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

My point is, NONE of that has been proven to be tied to human industry.

You do realize that there have been global warming and coolingcycles fro ages, right?... these cycles have been going on long before humans even existed ... much less had any significant industrial base.

So yes... Ice caps may be receding ... but no-one has provided any evidence (much less proof) that it is caused by me. It's quite possible that we couldn't stop it, slow it, or even accelerate it even if we wanted to. Having seen the polar ice cap with my own eyes, I'm not too worried yet.

Yes, I recycle... yes, I try to limit the amount of pollution I make (my boat is wind-powered ), but I have no desire to go back to an agrarian society... I like things made of plastic, electricity, the ability to travel all over the world...


If the "powers that be" were really concerned about the fate of the earth, they would realize that there's not much we feeble humans can do about it. Perhaps they should quit spending all their money playing a global version of "my god's better than your god" and put that money into establishing a human presence OFF the earth ... I'll not hold my breath.

I did know that about changing climactic conditions. The thing is there used as a denial response to global warming, as if the sun is creating this current rise when it isn't. I'm sure scientists are going to come up with whacky ways of solving it, but sucking all the methane out of the oceans? Ludicrous! I look forward to seeing how they get the paste back in the tube. Good luck to them, they'll need it.

I agree about the religious wars, though I don't think religion is solely to blame, more greed and power.

I'm sorry you didn't witness anything unusual in Antarctica, others have and apparently it's quite stunning.

Planting good old fashioned trees would help combat GW, so cut back on meat and plant baby plant.
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post #34 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

By using an incandescent light bulb, am I destroying the planet?

Huh?
Did I miss something?
post #35 of 291
If manmade, then manmade measures taken to halt global warming are essential. It is prudent to assume the worst, and try to deal with the worst case scenario. It's not as if we have a back-up planet we can all jump to should Earth "fail" and becomes uninhabitable.

If the principle causes are not manmade, then we have nothing to lose, apart from rendering a lot of 19th Century techmology obsolete. Pursuing "green" technology is win win all the way.

The real reason why some people are "doubting" the manmade hypotheses is that solutions require international regulations with enforcement, and this doesn't go down well with so called 'free' market/laissez faire/Friedmanesque ideologies which have become de rigeur throughout much of the world during the last few decades. Their arguments are "politics bracketed by science".
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #36 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

If manmade, then manmade measures taken to halt global warming are essential. It is prudent to assume the worst, and try to deal with the worst case scenario. It's not as if we have a back-up planet we can all jump to should Earth "fail" and becomes uninhabitable.

If the principle causes are not manmade, then we have nothing to lose, apart from rendering a lot of 19th Century techmology obsolete. Pursuing "green" technology is win win all the way.

The real reason why some people are "doubting" the manmade hypotheses is that solutions require international regulations with enforcement, and this doesn't go down well with so called 'free' market/laissez faire/Friedmanesque ideologies which have become de rigeur throughout much of the world during the last few decades. Their arguments are "politics bracketed by science".

These Ron Paul types etc will do anything to defend their bull, including selling the world down the tubes. So be it, but they share the blame for inaction and it will forever stain their own legacy, indeed ruining it as this global disaster unfolds.

I'm skeptical of the scientists trying to fix this problem. It's a bit like trusting the current politicians to get us out of the financial mess, they over time have caused. I can see disasters in the making as man tries to meddle with nature, yet again not knowing what the long term consequences will be. That said if push comes to shove some things may have to be tried. Certainly renewable energies is the right path though, but there not currently as green as is supposed. Take solar cells. There made from several rare minerals that require hundreds of tons of mining. All the equipment is made and powered through the use of oil.

Hydrogen takes a huge amount of energy to produce (more than is obtained from it) as there are no underground reservoirs of hydrogen.

It currently takes about 1,000 gallons of fossil fuel to produce one acre of corn. One acre of corn yields about 328 gallons of ethanol. There is other data suggesting the ratio is much better than that however (up to 1.34 rather than 0.59 which relates to BTU's to output of energy), but still it's estimated that it would take nearly the whole area of the US to be covered with a corn crop to run it's vehicles alone.

Obviously these alternative energies are advancing and are needed, but getting off oil is still a long way off.
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post #37 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

1... It has NOT been proven that the rise is in any way connected to humans and our industry... it is speculated... but we simply have not been taking measurements for nearly long enough to determine if we are having ANY effect geologically. Maybe we are, but it is NOT A PROVEN FACT.

2... What, exactly, is the "dramatic effect" that this small rise is having ??? There have been several theories of certain FUTURE "dramatic events" that MIGHT happen... but, again, no real evidence that anything IS HAPPENING.

You can't "prove" AGW with 100% certainty. But you can make probabilistic statements.

The 2007 IPCC reports stated that, it in very likely (p > 0.9) that humankind is causing the majority (p > 0.5) of the global temperature increase seen to date.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #38 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

1... It has NOT been proven that the rise is in any way connected to humans and our industry... it is speculated... but we simply have not been taking measurements for nearly long enough to determine if we are having ANY effect geologically. Maybe we are, but it is NOT A PROVEN FACT.

About global warming, perhaps not since the system is certainly more complex than a bread box filled with steam, but we have plenty of evidence that humans affect climate geologically now and well at least since agriculture, which is to say it is naive to suggest that humans cannot have an effect.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #39 of 291
Industry Ignored Its Scientists on Climate
Quote:
But a document filed in a federal lawsuit demonstrates that even as the coalition worked to sway opinion, its own scientific and technical experts were advising that the science backing the role of greenhouse gases in global warming could not be refuted.

“The scientific basis for the Greenhouse Effect and the potential impact of human emissions of greenhouse gases such as CO2 on climate is well established and cannot be denied,” the experts wrote in an internal report compiled for the coalition in 1995.

Quote:
According to the minutes of an advisory committee meeting that are among the disclosed documents, the primer was approved by the coalition’s operating committee early in 1996. But the approval came only after the operating committee had asked the advisers to omit the section that rebutted the contrarian arguments.

“This idea was accepted,” the minutes said, “and that portion of the paper will be dropped.”

The primer itself was never publicly distributed.

Mr. O’Keefe, who was then chairman of the Global Climate Coalition and a senior official of the American Petroleum Institute, the lobby for oil companies, said in the phone interview that he recalled seeing parts of the primer.

But he said he was not aware of the dropped sections when a copy of the approved final draft was sent to him. He said a change of that kind would have been made by the staff before the document was brought to the board for final consideration.

It's always someone else's fault.
post #40 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

By using an incandescent light bulb, am I destroying the planet?

I'm looking forward to reading your posts, in a few years, how a bunch of global elites caused global warming to 'bring down America.'

This is near your part of the universehttp://scrippsnews.uscd.edu/Releases/?releaseID=876 So go ahead, leave all your lights on and call global warming a farce, designed solely to deprive you of your constitutional rights. Remember that waters needed to grow crops too, about 60 gallons for a pound of wheat as opposed to 13,250 gallons for a pound of beef. Looks you might become a vegan, if your not already.
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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