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Global Warming - Page 3

Poll Results: Are humans the primary cause of global warming?

 
  • 67% (25)
    Yes
  • 24% (9)
    No
  • 8% (3)
    Other (Please Elaborate)
37 Total Votes  
post #81 of 291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

A Project by CFACT.
Who are these people and who funds them?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committ...ctive_Tomorrow

I mean, seriously.

I know it's second nature for you guys to try to discredit anything that appears on its face to contradict what you believe in, but for goodness sake--did you read any of the articles linked on that website?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #82 of 291
I haven't red the thread, but this poll is a bit disingenuous. Whether or not humans are the primary cause of global warming is moot. The fact remains that humans are one cause of global warming. There is much we can do to remove our footprint, regardless of whether ours is the largest.
post #83 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I haven't red the thread, but this poll is a bit disingenuous. Whether or not humans are the primary cause of global warming is moot. The fact remains that humans are one cause of global warming. There is much we can do to remove our footprint, regardless of whether ours is the largest.

Exactly! If it keeps going in this direction in the end the results will be the same.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #84 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Did you read ANY of the other articles on that website? Or are you busy trying to discredit the ones you don't agree with, as well?

What do I read, you ask?

I read extensively from the well respected peer reviewed climate science literature.

I've read literally thousands of such articles over my 30 years as a Research Hydraulic Engineer.

The aforementioned individuals discredit themselves, simply by opening their completely ignorant mouths.

Nuff said.

If you can't speak to the science, then you can just shut the ...

The blog-o-smear? Seriously. You could get even a semblance of a clue. Make it so.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #85 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I know it's second nature for you guys to try to discredit anything that appears on its face to contradict what you believe in, but for goodness sake--did you read any of the articles linked on that website?

Yeah I read a couple, was especially intrigued by the Bait and Switch article by Paul Driessen who claimed therein that 32,000 scientists signed the Oregon Petition also known as the Petition Project.

We know that the vast majority weren't scientists but educated people with an opinion, which makes one wonder why he would say this.

Follow the money, pay someone to push your agenda and ignore what doesn't fit.

I already linked to an example previously,
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/sc...agewanted=1&hp
which you ignored and now you link to a site funded by the same industries with the added joke that Richard Mellon Scaife funds them as well.
post #86 of 291
Soylent Green (1973 aka 2022!!) I've seen it before, as I'm sure others here have. It's downloadable for iPod on Google Video, for long bus trips, enjoy the popcorn! here http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...=Soylent+Green
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #87 of 291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

What do I read, you ask?

I read extensively from the well respected peer reviewed climate science literature.

I've read literally thousands of such articles over my 30 years as a Research Hydraulic Engineer.

The aforementioned individuals discredit themselves, simply by opening their completely ignorant mouths.

Nuff said.

If you can't speak to the science, then you can just shut the ...

The blog-o-smear? Seriously. You could get even a semblance of a clue. Make it so.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #88 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post


That's the best you can do?

---

Maybe we could go visit some Eskimos to hear their take on things... Oh, they had to move.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/sci...mos/index.html

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #89 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

That's the best you can do?

---

Maybe we could go visit some Eskimos to hear their take on things... Oh, they had to move.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/sci...mos/index.html

Great link Bergie.

Perhaps the two most vexing problems facing climate science today.

An accurate predictive model for sea level rise and an accurate predictive model for fresh water runoff.

Both of these rely on accurate modeling of the loss of glacial ice pack.

The best that can be done today is a semi-empirical approach due to the complexity of the ice melt processes involved.

Needless to say, the current theoretical models for sea level rise all under predict the actual current sea level rise by ~50% (e. g. two thirds).

Also of some serious (long term) consideration is the potential short circuiting of the oceanic currents due to excessive glacial melt (e. g. Greenland), and lastly potential for catastrophic failure(s) of sections of the Greenland (and Antarctic) ice sheets, causing potential tsunami-like events (instead of massive volcanic related landslides into the oceans, think of it as massive ice slides into the oceans, causing very rapid rises in sea level).
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #90 of 291
If the town in question had been a suburb of New York or Los Angeles, I'm pretty sure a few more people would be raising their voices about needing rapid action.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #91 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

If the town in question had been a suburb of New York or Los Angeles, I'm pretty sure a few more people would be raising their voices about needing rapid action.

America has pissed off the rest of the world, indeed made matters far worse, regarding these issue for long enough, thanks primarily to the republicans and the largely ignorant and selfish American populace. Fortunately, that's beginning to change. But Americans in general have a long way still to go and most will ignore the issue, deny it's real or come up with ways to prevent action, so long as they think it doesn't effect them.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #92 of 291
Al Gore is a Lier, the proof is the fact that he was a politian . Oh, and this...
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/mo...oreerrors.html
post #93 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post

Al Gore is a Liar, the proof is the fact that he was a politician. Oh, and this...
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/mo...oreerrors.html


tftfy

Oh and BTW, your "beloved" Count Chocula has already been discussed and summarily dismissed.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #94 of 291
I don't understand how people can take what Republicans or the religious right have to say about climate change seriously. These are the same people who want to replace modern science with fairy tales ("creationism"). They ignore the obvious signs all around us and make up their own version of "science" based on their religious and ideological beliefs.

Meanwhile, these same people in government turn a blind eye to companies who pollute our air, water and land which has had genocidal results on life all over the globe. It's because they have no respect for any other life than human, and even that is debatable. They think the Earth is disposable because some imaginary dude that lives in the sky will take care of everything, so they absolve themselves of all responsibility.

Unless we as a society start to reject such nonsense, the make-believers will continue their crusade against science, reason and enlightenment.
post #95 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Wow, 10 years this company pumped mercury laced, and who knows what else as raw sewage into the drinking, fishing waters without concern.

I remember a thread here where sslarson, posts since hidden, posted the thoughts of some guy, an economist, that he revered.

Can't remember his name, suffice it say, crackpot but who has many followers in certain camps.

He wasn't shilling for anyone as far as I can remember but this was in one of his books on economics.

Knordkap was arguing points in that thread as well but under a different screen name that I forgot.

This guy denied that dioxin and other toxic substances that were under fire at the time, were toxic and regulating them was costing business to much and thus harming the economy.

His kind of thinking is what too many in power turn to or except as truth and the public that is being affected or forced to fight.
It's always about money first and if no one bitches, they won.

Seeing as sslarson is a libertarian, maybe someone here knows who I'm talking about.

Found the thread,
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=91236

The guys name is Julian Lincoln Simon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Lincoln_Simon
Quote:
Simon also listed numerous claims about severe environmental damage and health dangers from pollution as "definitely disproved". These included claims about lead pollution & IQ, DDT, PCBs, malathion, Agent Orange, asbestos, and the chemical contamination at Love Canal.

The thread was interesting.
post #96 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

tftfy

Oh and BTW, your "beloved" Count Chocula has already been discussed and summarily dismissed.

As has your rectum god Al Gore
post #97 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post

As has your rectum god Al Gore

Great comeback! For me to poop on!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #98 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post

As has your rectum god Al Gore

Callipygian
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #99 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

tftfy

Oh and BTW, your "beloved" Count Chocula has already been discussed and summarily dismissed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post

As has your rectum god Al Gore

Well I think both have just shown that dismiss and disprove are not the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Callipygian

Ass-plosion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Found the thread,
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=91236

The guys name is Julian Lincoln Simon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Lincoln_Simon

The thread was interesting.

Some of us can read current threads made by current posters. Is there really a good reason why we should tell people currently posting that old threads/old posters/whatever addressed this and thus you want to go back to that or not address it again? It is the internet equivalent of telling them to get off your lawn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

I don't understand how people can take what Republicans or the religious right have to say about climate change seriously. These are the same people who want to replace modern science with fairy tales ("creationism"). They ignore the obvious signs all around us and make up their own version of "science" based on their religious and ideological beliefs.

Meanwhile, these same people in government turn a blind eye to companies who pollute our air, water and land which has had genocidal results on life all over the globe. It's because they have no respect for any other life than human, and even that is debatable. They think the Earth is disposable because some imaginary dude that lives in the sky will take care of everything, so they absolve themselves of all responsibility.

Unless we as a society start to reject such nonsense, the make-believers will continue their crusade against science, reason and enlightenment.

I think you overestimate or exclude certain people from this category. A study of history will show that men blaming the actions of other men for the weather and the ability or lack of ability to control it is perhaps the world's oldest wedge issue. Gore is no different that someone telling us we have to throw a virgin into a volcano or slaughter a goat on a stone alter to bring rain.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #100 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Well I think both have just shown that dismiss and disprove are not the same thing.



Ass-plosion!



Some of us can read current threads made by current posters. Is there really a good reason why we should tell people currently posting that old threads/old posters/whatever addressed this and thus you want to go back to that or not address it again? It is the internet equivalent of telling them to get off your lawn.



I think you overestimate or exclude certain people from this category. A study of history will show that men blaming the actions of other men for the weather and the ability or lack of ability to control it is perhaps the world's oldest wedge issue.
Quote:
Gore is no different that someone telling us we have to throw a virgin into a volcano or slaughter a goat on a stone alter to bring rain.

I thought praying for rain or indeed praying for a better economy was a good thing http://bsalert.com/news/2422/Christi...r_Economy.html

OMG-Maybe we should follow this man who is a member of the House Energy and Air Quality committee http://bsalert.com/news/2494/IL_Cong...l_Warming.html
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #101 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I thought praying for rain or indeed praying for a better economy was a good thing http://bsalert.com/news/2422/Christi...r_Economy.html

Naw, I'll trust my hands and brains over a gold bull, calf, or pretty much anything else.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #102 of 291
Sure, lets post the same old stuff from the beginning and address the same points over again.

Why a new thread is created instead of posting new facts in the relevant thread is tiresome for those that need to repeat themselves.

Nothing wrong in pointing out the topic was discussed before and providing a link to it.

Can't understand why anyone would have a problem with it.
post #103 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

I don't understand how people can take what Republicans or the religious right have to say about climate change seriously. These are the same people who want to replace modern science with fairy tales ("creationism"). They ignore the obvious signs all around us and make up their own version of "science" based on their religious and ideological beliefs.

Meanwhile, these same people in government turn a blind eye to companies who pollute our air, water and land which has had genocidal results on life all over the globe. It's because they have no respect for any other life than human, and even that is debatable. They think the Earth is disposable because some imaginary dude that lives in the sky will take care of everything, so they absolve themselves of all responsibility.

Unless we as a society start to reject such nonsense, the make-believers will continue their crusade against science, reason and enlightenment.

Thank you!
I second that.

If we can not overcome religion of all kind we are indeed out of luck. Idiotic christians somehow believe that the bible has ever had any other purpose than to keep the Roman Empire in power without weaponry other that the "word." Mr. Constantine remains the most brilliantly evil politician of all time. Rome still receives taxes from all over the world. Wow, and they thought it was about some guy who died on a cross sporting a death erection.
post #104 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Naw, I'll trust my hands and brains over a gold bull, calf, or pretty much anything else.

Except money.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #105 of 291
post #106 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Except money.

Actually given what I have posted about our government and their currency manipulation it is pretty clear I don't have much trust in currency or money either.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #107 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Well I think both have just shown that dismiss and disprove are not the same thing.

The links I provided in a previous post disproves Count Chocula convincingly.

Just like the NIPCC has been thoroughly debunked using all the same well respected established peer reviewed climate science answers that existed prior to this rehashing of the same old and tired (and quite frankly at this point boring) contrarian falsehoods.

Quote:
Gore is no different that someone telling us we have to throw a virgin into a volcano or slaughter a goat on a stone alter to bring rain.

Yes, and your personal opinion of the man hasn't changed one iota either.

So what's new under the sun? For me to poop on!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #108 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Actually given what I have posted about our government and their currency manipulation it is pretty clear I don't have much trust in currency or money either.

Except when lots of it is in your hands...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #109 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

The links I provided in a previous post disproves Count Chocula convincingly.

Apparently not.

Quote:
Just like the NIPCC has been thoroughly debunked using all the same well respected established peer reviewed climate science answers that existed prior to this rehashing of the same old and tired (and quite frankly at this point boring) contrarian falsehoods.

It's them darn contrarian falsehoods that keep ruining the day.

Quote:
Yes, and your personal opinion of the man hasn't changed one iota either. So what's new under the sun? For me to poop on!

Well why would it? If anything it has gotten worse because the new moral crusaders have told us that good leaders never have children who do things wrong thus reflecting bad up bringing. Gore is still making plenty of money and using it to buy bigger houses, cars and boats all while lobbying everyone to give him even more money in his start-ups.

As for what is new, there is this Prince/Shania Twain sandwich bit that could use some poop as a condiment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Except when lots of it is in your hands...

Naw, I would take it and quickly put it into something of real value. Even my dividend income is in a DRIP. Liquidity is bad for us inflationistas out here.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #110 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Naw, I would take it and quickly put it into something of real value. Even my dividend income is in a DRIP.

Me too... but isn't that the most obvious thing to do?
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #111 of 291
Kind of ironic that GM is headed into bankruptcy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYb3n...layer_embedded The US networks refused to show this ad.

Maybe they should just stick with the truth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWnVh...9BBD77&index=3
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #112 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

That's the best you can do?
---
Maybe we could go visit some Eskimos to hear their take on things... Oh, they had to move.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/sci...mos/index.html

A bit of reading there would make one a skeptic. I know it has done that for me. This NY Times article notes part of the problem is COST.

Some villages plan to hunker down behind sea walls built or planned by the Army Corps of Engineers, at least for now. Others, like Newtok, have no choice but to abandon their patch of tundra. The corps has estimated that to move Newtok could cost $130 million because of its remoteness, climate and topography. That comes to almost $413,000 for each of the 315 residents.

I'd sure love to hear how many of them would move from their huts and honeybuckets to pretty much anywhere else for half a million each and if they wouldn't they let them endure their delusion.

One of the main issues with matters like this are that these Native Americans want to live modern life in areas that do not allow it. When reading on this I discovered they've only inhabited their current site since 1950. They abandoned the site they were using before that due to... wait for it.... flooding. (Must have been the evil global warming back then too.) The reason this issue wasn't discovered before that... they only stayed in this area part of the year due to being nomadic people who built temporary housing. They live in an area where the structure are now permanent, gaining more and more stuff and amazingly enough are now sinking. (Is that really so hard to imagine when you live on the very edge of a delta that you are in a flood zone?)

I wonder if the estimate was half a billion dollars to move nine miles up the road in 1950?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

If the town in question had been a suburb of New York or Los Angeles, I'm pretty sure a few more people would be raising their voices about needing rapid action.

I'm sure if the government walked up tomorrow and offered me half a million for each of my properties to move nine miles I'd grab it and be gone. I'm pretty sure that most people would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Kind of ironic that GM is headed into bankruptcy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYb3n...layer_embedded The US networks refused to show this ad.

Maybe they should just stick with the truth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWnVh...9BBD77&index=3

GM is heading into bankruptcy due to union contracts. The Japanese companies are making cars in the U.S. without those contracts and do not have the same issues. The difference is the unions and pension and medical plans for retirees. It is simply an earlier version of the boomer problem. Ford and others also make some very nice Euro cars that cannot come to the U.S. because our safety and environmental concerns make it impossible. All those wonderful 40-60 MPG diesel cars wouldn't pass California emissions laws and have lenses and bumpers we don't consider to be safe. They seem to be safe enough for Europe though.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #113 of 291
This is really sad to see people think that god is going to destroy this planet or not because in reality we the humans will. There are more than enough reasons to change our ways. We have been treating this planet like its ours since the beginning of time. We are going to die and we are going to kill ourselves unless there is major change around the world.
post #114 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by liposuctionguide View Post

This is really sad to see people think that god is going to destroy this planet or not because in reality we the humans will. There are more than enough reasons to change our ways. We have been treating this planet like its ours since the beginning of time. We are going to die and we are going to kill ourselves unless there is major change around the world.

Yes, but many cultures have had a spititual awareness and connection with the land that has led them to respect it like one might respect their mother. The last ten thousand years of advancing agricultural advancements and then the industrial revolution have got us to this point of huge populations and the ability to alter our habitat beyond it's life supporting capacity for countless species and eco-systems.

I'm not big on these quotes but, in The Book of Revelation (11:18) "... and I shall destroy them which destroy the earth."
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #115 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Apparently not. . . .
.
.
.

No content. No comment.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #116 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

A bit of reading there would make one a skeptic. I know it has done that for me. This NY Times article notes part of the problem is COST.

Some villages plan to hunker down behind sea walls built or planned by the Army Corps of Engineers, at least for now. Others, like Newtok, have no choice but to abandon their patch of tundra. The corps has estimated that to move Newtok could cost $130 million because of its remoteness, climate and topography. That comes to almost $413,000 for each of the 315 residents.

I'd sure love to hear how many of them would move from their huts and honeybuckets to pretty much anywhere else for half a million each and if they wouldn't they let them endure their delusion.

One of the main issues with matters like this are that these Native Americans want to live modern life in areas that do not allow it. When reading on this I discovered they've only inhabited their current site since 1950. They abandoned the site they were using before that due to... wait for it.... flooding. (Must have been the evil global warming back then too.) The reason this issue wasn't discovered before that... they only stayed in this area part of the year due to being nomadic people who built temporary housing. They live in an area where the structure are now permanent, gaining more and more stuff and amazingly enough are now sinking. (Is that really so hard to imagine when you live on the very edge of a delta that you are in a flood zone?)

I wonder if the estimate was half a billion dollars to move nine miles up the road in 1950?

You've just walked yourself into a quagmire.

Taking things out of context again, I see.

I guess I should go to the USACE ERDC Technical Library or ask some SME's at ERDC for the real truth of the matter. Or maybe I should just ask ERDC's current Technical Director, or the ASCE's most recent past president.

Let's see, I'm a Research Hydraulic Engineer who worked at the ERDC's Coastal and Hydraulics Laboratory (or CHL) for ~24 years.

However, I am not, nor have I ever been a Sand Engineer, I don't advocate building in the coastal zone, not at taxpayers expense. Breakwaters and jetties for navigation purposes being the only exception (no new builds just maintenance and deepening of existing navigation entrance channels).

Quote:
The earth beneath much of Alaska is not what it used to be. The permanently frozen subsoil, known as permafrost, upon which Newtok and so many other Native Alaskan villages rest, is melting, yielding to warming air temperatures and a warming ocean. Sea ice that would normally protect coastal villages is forming later in the year, allowing fall storms to pound away at the shoreline.

Thus the mechanism for the sinking is well known. It is clearly and plainly due to AGW, plain and simple. Regardless of your mostly uneducated technical opinion, and lack of expertise in even a basic understanding of coastal processes and sea level rise.

You are not a SME, as you have neither the requisite training or work experience, regardless of your ability to read the NYT.

Quote:
Newtok’s leaders say the corps’ relocation estimates are inflated, that they intend to move piecemeal rather than in one collective migration, which they say will save money

I know the costs are inflated, and I know why. Do you?

Quote:
“They grossly overestimate it, and that’s why federal and state agencies are afraid to step in,” said Stanley Tom, the current tribal administrator and the brother of Nick Tom Jr. “They don’t want to spend that much money.”

Nope. Wrong answer. It's inflated so that the C/B analysis shows it to not be of benefit to the federal government, therefore, the federal government won't pay for it.

D'oh!

Quote:
The corps is drafting a plan to build initial roads and an emergency center that would serve as a base of operations during construction. But the plan, for which the corps has not yet released a budget, needs financing from Congress.

Oh, lookie there, the COE doesn't build anything without the approval of Congress. Funny that?

Quote:
Senator Ted Stevens, the lion of Alaska politics, is now the ranking minority member on the Senate’s new Disaster Recovery subcommittee.

His aides say that, while he has yet to push for money to move specific villages, he was instrumental in passing legislation in 2005 that gave the corps broader authority to help. Despite the state’s past success at winning federal money, they say Alaska lawmakers are hemmed in by new scrutiny of so-called earmarks for special projects, Mr. Stevens’s status in the minority of the new Congress, public detachment from issues facing rural Alaska and needs in other places, like New Orleans.

And village relocation in Alaska is not a priority at the White House. The president’s proposed budget includes $1 million that could go to that purpose, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said Saturday.

As an aside, I wonder what happened to old Ted?
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #117 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by liposuctionguide View Post

This is really sad to see people think that god is going to destroy this planet or not because in reality we the humans will. There are more than enough reasons to change our ways. We have been treating this planet like its ours since the beginning of time. We are going to die and we are going to kill ourselves unless there is major change around the world.

Well, I respect your opinion, but you need to recognize that there's no evidence to support your assertion. Since you yourself introduced "We have been treating this planet like its ours since the beginning of time", then you'd actually have to show some significant mechanism with which we'll "destroy this planet". After all, there's no historical precedent "since the beginning of time" to draw any parallels from.

To put things in perspective, the energy that the Mount Saint Helens eruption generated was equal to 27,000 Hiroshima-sized nuclear weapons - and just a thousand or so miles away I didn't even know it was happening except for news reports.

It would take quite a bit to destroy the planet.
post #118 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

You've just walked yourself into a quagmire.

I'm sorry but not, quite the opposite. I'll be happy to show you that actually the reverse is true.

Quote:
Taking things out of context again, I see.

Nope.

Quote:
I guess I should go to the USACE ERDC Technical Library or ask some SME's at ERDC for the real truth of the matter. Or maybe I should just ask ERDC's current Technical Director, or the ASCE's most recent past president.

Let's see, I'm a Research Hydraulic Engineer who worked at the ERDC's Coastal and Hydraulics Laboratory (or CHL) for ~24 years.

However, I am not, nor have I ever been a Sand Engineer, I don't advocate building in the coastal zone, not at taxpayers expense. Breakwaters and jetties for navigation purposes being the only exception (no new builds just maintenance and deepening of existing navigation entrance channels).

Thanks for sharing your background. Let me ask you and your expertise one final question now that you have tossed those credentials out there. What level of education do you think is required to realize that building on sand probably isn't the greatest idea?

Quote:
Thus the mechanism for the sinking is well known. It is clearly and plainly due to AGW, plain and simple. Regardless of your mostly uneducated technical opinion, and lack of expertise in even a basic understanding of coastal processes and sea level rise.

You are not a SME, as you have neither the requisite training or work experience, regardless of your ability to read the NYT.

It appears that being part of the process corrupts in this instance rather than credentials a person. You provide the data for this in your own post.

Quote:
I know the costs are inflated, and I know why. Do you?

This is an admission that data and costs are not truthful. This is an admission that you understand this process.

Quote:
Nope. Wrong answer. It's inflated so that the C/B analysis shows it to not be of benefit to the federal government, therefore, the federal government won't pay for it.

This is an admission that the government manipulates data to obtain the outcomes it wants in a process.

Quote:
D'oh!
Oh, lookie there, the COE doesn't build anything without the approval of Congress. Funny that?

As an aside, I wonder what happened to old Ted?

Old Ted was found innocent after it was discovered that the prosecuters engaged in a little governmental manipulation as well.

Here is the reaosning presented in this thread.

I work for the government and have engineering expertise. I can go grab government data for you to show this is about global warming. At the same time I will share with you that the government intentionally distorts data to determine an outcome that they want to have happen. In this case they have distorted cost by inflating it. I know this because again, I work for the government.

Not to be rude, but that sounds like a reason to recuse yourself, not the opposite. Why would anyone trust sources that manipulates data to obtain an outcome?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #119 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I'm sorry but not, quite the opposite. I'll be happy to show you that actually the reverse is true.

You don't have a clue. Sorry, sad, but true.

Quote:
Nope.

Yup. No content. No comment.

Quote:
Thanks for sharing your background. Let me ask you and your expertise one final question now that you have tossed those credentials out there. What level of education do you think is required to realize that building on sand probably isn't the greatest idea?

My personal professional opinion or the facts of the matter?

I am not, nor have I ever been, a flatlander (a unique Vermont idiom).

The fact of the matter, is that all along our barrier island system (Atlantic and Gulf coasts) there are literally millions of homes and commercial buildings. That all of these are eligible for national flood insurance. That all of them are built on sand.

Funny that?

Quote:
It appears that being part of the process corrupts in this instance rather than credentials a person. You provide the data for this in your own post.

No content. No comment.

Quote:
This is an admission that data and costs are not truthful. This is an admission that you understand this process.

Again, being a SME, I can state categorically, that you don't have an effin clue. \

Quote:
This is an admission that the government manipulates data to obtain the outcomes it wants in a process.

See previous comment.

The rest of your rant is total gibberish. No comment.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #120 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Well, I respect your opinion, but you need to recognize that there's no evidence to support your assertion. Since you yourself introduced "We have been treating this planet like its ours since the beginning of time", then you'd actually have to show some significant mechanism with which we'll "destroy this planet". After all, there's no historical precedent "since the beginning of time" to draw any parallels from.

To put things in perspective, the energy that the Mount Saint Helens eruption generated was equal to 27,000 Hiroshima-sized nuclear weapons - and just a thousand or so miles away I didn't even know it was happening except for news reports.

It would take quite a bit to destroy the planet.

Humans will not destroy the planet, we'll destroy the environment and ecosystem that allows us to live on this rock. The planet will still be here long after we are gone.
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