or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Torture - Page 2

post #41 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

See that little ! in the lower left hand corner. Go ahead, make my day.

Done.

Have a good day.
post #42 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Done.

Have a good day.

Another thin skinner.

Like they say, "man up" and quit whining.
post #43 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Another thin skinner.

Like they say, "man up" and quit whining.

He literally asked for it. I obliged. What part of my behavior would you characterize as "whining"?

How do you think things will ever become civil when folks attack the poster instead of the position outlined in the post?

I do assume that civility is something folks want, if I'm wrong about that please correct me.
post #44 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Another thin skinner.

Like they say, "man up" and quit whining.

Except when it comes to whining about a certain "thought experiment", right?

Just thought I'd clarify.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #45 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

He literally asked for it. I obliged. What part of my behavior would you characterize as "whining"?

Uh, you said you did it?

Ignoring it and carrying on would be the non whining move.

My opinion of course.
post #46 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

He literally asked for it. I obliged. What part of my behavior would you characterize as "whining"?

How do you think things will ever become civil when folks attack the poster instead of the position outlined in the post?

I do assume that civility is something folks want, if I'm wrong about that please correct me.

The mod has the final say.

I don't think what I posted was a direct ad hominem.

However, the mod has the final say.

But whatever happens, meh. Water of a duck's back. 100% skin deep.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #47 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Except when it comes to whining about a certain "thought experiment", right?

Just thought I'd clarify.


Different action, I don't report anyone for anything.

Commenting on another's action in an open forum is completely different than complaining to the teacher.

See the difference?
post #48 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

He literally asked for it. I obliged. What part of my behavior would you characterize as "whining"?

How do you think things will ever become civil when folks attack the poster instead of the position outlined in the post?

I do assume that civility is something folks want, if I'm wrong about that please correct me.

But I thought this was an anonymous, not reality based internet kind of non reality thing to you.

I mean if it's okay to misrepresent ones self without penalty, how is it wrong to not be civil?

No reality no foul kind of thing.
post #49 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Different action, I don't report anyone for anything.

Commenting on another's action in an open forum is completely different than complaining to the teacher.

See the difference?

I was referring to your "man up" comment.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #50 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I was referring to your "man up" comment.

So what was wrong with the comment?
post #51 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

But I thought this was an anonymous, not reality based internet kind of non reality thing to you.

I mean if it's okay to misrepresent ones self without penalty, how is it wrong to not be civil?

No reality no foul kind of thing.

I didn't say it was wrong, I said I thought folks wanted civility. In my opinion, the attacks against the poster instead of attempts to have civil discourse is childish and foolish. The "reality" of it is inherent in the medium - it's the ONLY thing that exists, virtual though it may be. That said, none here are obliged to meet my expectations, nor am I obliged to meet the expectations of others.

Again, I think it needs to be mentioned that he specifically asked to be reported. Doing so seemed quite proper, so I obliged. From my limited experience here, the site administrators haven't felt it necessary to discipline because of past examples of that kind of behavior so I don't believe anything will come from it. I would appreciate the irony if they did decide to intercede, but that's just me. I mean, come on! He ASKED for it! It would be classic if the shoe dropped.

The bottom line for me personally - however you want to look at it, my posts are an example. Same goes for all that post here. One way or the other, it's what I'll be known for, and I refuse to allow foolish and childish behavior change how I post.

Perhaps you, or others, can't appreciate civil discourse. That's doesn't give me an excuse to abandon my attempts to have such. Before that time comes, I'll leave.
post #52 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

So what was wrong with the comment?

Nevermind. Not important.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #53 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

I didn't say it was wrong, I said I thought folks wanted civility. In my opinion, the attacks against the poster instead of attempts to have civil discourse is childish and foolish. The "reality" of it is inherent in the medium - it's the ONLY thing that exists, virtual though it may be. That said, none here are obliged to meet my expectations, nor am I obliged to meet the expectations of others.

Again, I think it needs to be mentioned that he specifically asked to be reported. Doing so seemed quite proper, so I obliged. From my limited experience here, the site administrators haven't felt it necessary to discipline because of past examples of that kind of behavior so I don't believe anything will come from it. I would appreciate the irony if they did decide to intercede, but that's just me. I mean, come on! He ASKED for it! It would be classic if the shoe dropped.

The bottom line for me personally - however you want to look at it, my posts are an example. Same goes for all that post here. One way or the other, it's what I'll be known for, and I refuse to allow foolish and childish behavior change how I post.

Perhaps you, or others, can't appreciate civil discourse. That's doesn't give me an excuse to abandon my attempts to have such.

But, according to you, it's not real, You aren't real to me, franks not real to you, Who cares about civil discourse.

Apparently you, who decided an unreal entity dissed you by making it about you, not real to frank, instead of the unreal, real argument.

Is that a paradox or am I being unreal.

I'm confused, I think, maybe I'm dreaming, maybe not.
post #54 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Nevermind. Not important.

There ya go.
post #55 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

But, according to you, it's not real, You aren't real to me, franks not real to you, Who cares about civil discourse.

Apparently you, who decided an unreal entity dissed you by making it about you, not real to frank, instead of the unreal, real argument.

Is that a paradox or am I being unreal.

I'm confused, I think, maybe I'm dreaming, maybe not.

You're not "real", if you were I'd be forced to modify my written reaction to your posts, just as you'd be forced to modify yours to mine. The name calling, the personal attacks, perhaps that is allowed in social environments where you live, but I assure you, such behavior would not be tolerated in the places I frequent.

I didn't decide that I was dissed, I pointed out the fact that an attempt to discredit my position was made without addressing the position itself. Logically, that's a fallacy. Popularly, it's considered an attack.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...d-hominem.html
post #56 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

You're not "real", if you were I'd be forced to modify my written reaction to your posts, just as you'd be forced to modify yours to mine. The name calling, the personal attacks, perhaps that is allowed in social environments where you live, but I assure you, such behavior would not be tolerated in the places I frequent.

I didn't decide that I was dissed, I pointed out the fact that an attempt to discredit my position was made without addressing the position itself. Logically, that's a fallacy. Popularly, it's considered an attack.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...d-hominem.html

Blah blah blah.
post #57 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

You're not "real", if you were I'd be forced to modify my written reaction to your posts, just as you'd be forced to modify yours to mine. The name calling, the personal attacks, perhaps that is allowed in social environments where you live, but I assure you, such behavior would not be tolerated in the places I frequent.

I didn't decide that I was dissed, I pointed out the fact that an attempt to discredit my position was made without addressing the position itself. Logically, that's a fallacy. Popularly, it's considered an attack.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...d-hominem.html

Here's the really funny part.

That's my real name Frank Sargent. In my CP I use to have my real city and state. I've mentioned many a time exactly where I have worked in said city and state. Call it pride or call it narcissistic, meh, I don't care. Water off a duck's back. 100% skin deep. Absolutely fearless. I fear no one. Stalkers? I say bring it. The door is usually unlocked and ofttimes left open. I say bring it.

Being a native of Vermont, the land of Dean, the land of Leahy, the land of Sanders, the land of Jeffords, we don't take kindly to flatlanders, we are blunt and direct.

So I tell you what, I'll come to your general region of the country and behave as I have always behaved my entire life. That being blunt, direct, and sardonic.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #58 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Actually that would be true if the only agreement we had between Mexico and the U.S. was the GC but we have a number of agreements in place beyond that agreement.

Bullshit. I used Mexico as an example. Let's say North Korea. I murder a North Korean in international waters. Is that not prosecutable under US Law?
post #59 of 121
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2009/2/2/171349/5294

Commendably Obama has closed the black sites but nonetheless what happened in CIA torture facilities stays in CIA torture facilities http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture...s20090209.html

ACLU- "Under the Bush administration, the U.S. government used false claims of national security to dodge judicial scrutiny of extraordinary rendition, even as other countries were attempting to examine the unlawful program. This case presents the first test of the Obama administration's dedication to transparency and willingness to move beyond rhetoric in its condemnation of torture. The administration should unequivocally reject the Bush administration's positions and permit these important cases in both the U.S. and the U.K. to go forward. Victims of extraordinary rendition deserve their day in court."
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #60 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Clinton got impeached for lying about a BJ.

Wrong.

lying under oath.

AND obstructing justice by urging Ms. Lewinsky "... to to file an affidavit that the President knew would be false"

Or do you support lying under oath?
The object of his testimony is irrelevant. The only relevant FACT is , that he Lied AND asked others to Lie as well.
post #61 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Clinton got impeached for lying about a BJ.

I wonder what would have happened to Bush, Cheney, et. al., if these memos had been "discovered" during their term of office?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Bullshit. I used Mexico as an example. Let's say North Korea. I murder a North Korean in international waters. Is that not prosecutable under US Law?

No it is not. (most) Murder is a State offense. No State has jurisdiction.
post #62 of 121
To get back OT, has this been mentioned yet?

Quote:
NEW YORK The debate over torture is getting personal for two of cable TV's prime-time hosts.

After Fox News Channel's Sean Hannity made a seemingly impromptu offer last week to undergo waterboarding as a benefit for charity, MSNBC's Keith Olbermann leapt at it. He offered $1,000 to the families of U.S. troops for every second Hannity withstood the technique.

Olbermann repeated the offer on Monday's show and said in an interview Tuesday that he's heard no response. He said he'll continue to pursue it.

"I don't think he has the courage to even respond to this let alone do it," Olbermann said.

Fox News Channel representatives did not respond to requests for comment.

The two men are on opposite poles of a debate that has preoccupied the worlds of talk TV and radio. Hannity says waterboarding is a fair and necessary interrogation technique for suspected terrorists; Olbermann calls it torture, says it's ineffective and should not be done by Americans.

Charles Grodin was challenging Hannity on the issue on Fox last week, and asked whether he would consent to be waterboarded.

"Sure," Hannity said. "I'll do it for charity ... I'll do it for the troops' families."

It wasn't exactly clear how serious the conversation was, since Grodin joked, "Are you busy on Sunday?" and Hannity laughed.

"I'll let you do it," Hannity said.

"I wouldn't do it," Grodin said. "I'll hand you a towel when you come out of the shower."

Olbermann's offer was quick. Besides the $1,000 per second, Olbermann said he'd double it if Hannity acknowledges he feared for his life and admits that waterboarding is torture.

Olbermann's offer was quick. Besides the $1,000 per second, Olbermann said he'd double it if Hannity acknowledges he feared for his life and admits that waterboarding is torture.

"The idea of putting somebody in a position they have volunteered for, for charity, to respond to their own unsupportable claims, is in many ways priceless," Olbermann said.

Olbermann, who hasn't missed any chance to criticize his ideological enemies at Fox, concedes TV competition plays a part in his offer. But he said it was sincere, because he believes Hannity has had a damaging role in the debate.

"If you expose people to reality, even with someone who is denying reality, that can have a powerful and important impact," he said.
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
Reply
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
Reply
post #63 of 121
Thread Starter 
Condi Rice got put on the spot by students at Stanford, and, well:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-u..._b_193379.html

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #64 of 121
And well... with a lot of twisting and contorting and dust tossing, we think we might have something to fume over for a while.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #65 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

And well... with a lot of twisting and contorting and dust tossing, we think we might have something to fume over for a while.

What do you mean? Should we just accept our government allows people to be brutally tortured to death? That's what at stake here.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #66 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

What do you mean? Should we just accept our government allows people to be brutally tortured to death? That's what at stake here.

I've not seen a credible source that has claimed we have tortured people to death. Released memos and opposition has stated we have engaged in torture that consists of methods like water boarding, and other similar methods.

What constitutes allowing? Endorsing, not enough oversight? Not prosecuting someone? Fill in the particulars.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #67 of 121
It'll be more fun watching the twisting and contorting that we'll witness when it's pointed out how a late night, 4 day a week comedy show uses humor to distort this.
post #68 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I've not seen a credible source that has claimed we have tortured people to death. Released memos and opposition has stated we have engaged in torture that consists of methods like water boarding, and other similar methods.

What constitutes allowing? Endorsing, not enough oversight? Not prosecuting someone? Fill in the particulars.

You'll find links to that in my earlier post in this thread that I titled Obama loves torture, do you? There's no doubt that Bush actively tortured, it's enough to make most people vomit.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #69 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

You'll find links to that in my earlier post in this thread that I titled Obama loves torture, do you? There's no doubt that Bush actively tortured, it's enough to make most people vomit.

Bush performed the torture himself, no doubt.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #70 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

You'll find links to that in my earlier post in this thread that I titled Obama loves torture, do you? There's no doubt that Bush actively tortured, it's enough to make most people vomit.

How is actively tortured the same as torturing someone to death?

Saying "that is what is at stake" is also called a strawman argument.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #71 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Bush performed the torture himself, no doubt.

Felt like torture listening to him talk.
post #72 of 121
Report probes US custody deaths
Quote:
The report defines the 34 cases classified as homicides as "caused by intentional or reckless behaviour".

It says another 11 cases have been deemed suspicious and that between eight and 12 prisoners were tortured to death.
post #73 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

How is actively tortured the same as torturing someone to death?

Saying "that is what is at stake" is also called a strawman argument.

Wow, I didn't think you'd deny that. You do know people are routinely tortued to death around the world. I suggest you read the links. Bush did torture people to death, I just hope Obama doesn't make the mistake, as at the moment there's that possibility.

Let's send 'em to....Jordan http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=17043

This is worth reading http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/as...0052006en.html Secret rendition is just a way to escape blame, sadly Obama is using it too. Pathetic.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #74 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Felt like torture listening to him talk.

I admit, I cringed every time he said the word "nuclear".

Palin can't say it correctly, either.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #75 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic View Post

no it is not. (most) murder is a state offense. No state has jurisdiction.

wtf?
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #76 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post

Wrong.

lying under oath.

AND obstructing justice by urging Ms. Lewinsky "... to to file an affidavit that the President knew would be false"

Or do you support lying under oath?
The object of his testimony is irrelevant. The only relevant FACT is , that he Lied AND asked others to Lie as well.

I really could give a rat's ass!

Clinton was not removed from office, so there.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #77 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Report probes US custody deaths

I didn't realize that custody and torture to death were synonyms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Wow, I didn't think you'd deny that. You do know people are routinely tortued to death around the world. I suggest you read the links. Bush did torture people to death, I just hope Obama doesn't make the mistake, as at the moment there's that possibility.

Let's send 'em to....Jordan http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=17043

This is worth reading http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/as...0052006en.html Secret rendition is just a way to escape blame, sadly Obama is using it too. Pathetic.

I got through the first link. Not to be rude but I wouldn't have time for several months to get through the second link.

Well as I have explained, I don't think it is possible to do war without getting dirty. The only way to avoid getting dirty is to get out of the war business or stop being the cop for the world. You weren't here yet but I've had probably a dozen posts saying we need to stop Pax Americana and that Obama would be no different from Bush in that regard.


Here is an interesting tidbit featuring Cliff May and John Stewart.


Quote:
It comes at about the 5:50 mark. Cliff May asks Stewart whether Truman's use of the atomic bomb was a war crime, Stewart ruminates and then responds with an unequivocal "yes." He's certainly not the only American who would take that view, but it's a useful reminder that the most vocal and popular criticism of the Bush administration's war on terror policies comes from people who, if they were being as honest as Stewart, would also judge Lincoln (suspension of habeas), FDR (internment), and Truman (use of nuclear weapons) as war criminals or tyrants or worse.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #78 of 121
Quote:
The report defines the 34 cases classified as homicides as "caused by intentional or reckless behaviour".

It says another 11 cases have been deemed suspicious and that between eight and 12 prisoners were tortured to death.

Ask for a credible source and then get all grammatical.

And you wonder why I...
post #79 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Ask for a credible source and then get all grammatical.

And you wonder why I...

I couldn't work out trumptman's response to that either.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #80 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I couldn't work out trumptman's response to that either.

Yeah, so if it's not about the facts but what the fuck your'e talking about, then what the fuck is it about.

The thought process, which is about who?

Hint, rhymes with who.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider