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Apple to introduce more affordable Macs, sources say - Page 3

post #81 of 293
It's amazing to me to see how many of you think this isn't good news.

Anyone who thinks this is bad news is only worried that owning a mac will no longer represent whatever kind of status symbol you cling to.

Seriously, the article didn't say they were bringing cheaper parts to the higher end computers so get over it. There's absolutely no reason to get worried over Apple trying to become affordable to more people.
post #82 of 293
Steve moola pic at http://www.reevoo.com/decidewhattobu...pple_money.jpg
post #83 of 293
Apple's consumer-level hardware (i.e., excluding the Mac Pro) compares unfavorably to that of other manufacturers, especially when price is considered. The only justification for calling a Mac a "premium" product is OS X, and despite that it is getting harder to make a case for the whole package. When Windows 7 comes out, Apple will find much stiffer competition from the Windows world.
post #84 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasper View Post

It's about marginal yet noticeably more affordable Macs on par with the company's current standards. It could be as simple as taking the current models and lopping $100 - $150 off in a few months.

This is so tricky for Apple. You say they are not going to make cheap PCs, just more affordable ones. So that could mean a cheaper model of the MacBook, or waiting until parts drop to lower the prices.

If it's the latter they run the risk of future profit loses as these known drops in component and manufacturing pricing are factored in. It's easy to drop a price but not so easy to increase it when you revision the model.

If it's the former, a cheaper MacBook would go for to increasing or at least helping to maintain marketshare but profits could drop, even if the profit margin is the same for the more expensive model.

Then again, losing sales in a fearful economy isn't good either. Such a tricky decision for any company to make.
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post #85 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

Seriously, the article didn't say they were bringing cheaper parts to the higher end computers so get over it. There's absolutely no reason to get worried over Apple trying to become affordable to more people.

As a stockholder I always worry about companies making less net profit per unit.
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post #86 of 293
Why not offer a 4 or 5 payment option like several of the 'home networks' do? Personally, I would pay 3 or 4 hundred a month for 4 or 5 months to have an updated Mac. Bet a bunch of them would be sold this way!

Think about it - might work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
post #87 of 293
I agree, although Windows 7 isnt as good as OSX it's still very solid and a step in the right direction for MS. Apple wont have alot of ammo to fire off on the Windows OS front but will probably still say "Hey our stuff looks prettier at least".
post #88 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

As a stockholder I always worry about companies making less net profit per unit.

good point
post #89 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxy View Post

I agree, although Windows 7 isnt as good as OSX it's still very solid and a step in the right direction for MS. Apple wont have alot of ammo to fire off on the Windows OS front but will probably still say "Hey our stuff looks prettier at least".

What about it isn't as good?
post #90 of 293
Small companies around me are switching from Apple to netbooks and cloudcomputing. There is a change and Apple is about to loose some important customers.

Yes, we want one or three models priced from $500 to $800, but NOT if Apple only want to give us some crappy devices.

I have been a major Mac-customer since 1986, I have lost one time before when my company trown out 150 Macs due to a much cheaper PC on the market (1990's).

I am about to do it again!

Wake up Apple!
post #91 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

What about it isn't as good?

They are going to recover with Windows 7. Even the hardware makers are waiting for it.

What I mea isn that OSX looks better when you come from Vista. it is a little less attractive when you have tried Windows 7.
post #92 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

What about it isn't as good?

There are many UI aspects, included software, and all around convenience that makes Mac OS X "better" than Windows 7 in many ways. Of course, that is an opinion, but I think it's pretty fair.

Kinda like iTunes audio isn't nearly as good as a CD and didn't have the case notes, etc., but it was convenient and "good enough" for the average user. I think Windows 7 is a solid step over XP and Vista and more importantly it is "good enough" for the average user and convenient as people are familiar with Windows and can buy a much cheaper machine than Apple will sell, which supports the majoroty of PC users. MS did right by this version. I wouldn't trade it for my Mac but it's worth telling people to not stay with XP anymore.
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post #93 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorf View Post

Small companies around me are switching from Apple to netbooks and cloudcomputing. There is a change and Apple is about to loose some important customers.

post #94 of 293
I have been there for a while man, so you got it wrong there
post #95 of 293
Quote:

I'm amazed at how the mind works. You remembered that 2 second part of a Simpsons episode. I remember it, too, but only when I saw the pic.
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post #96 of 293
This is most likely the result of stronger dollar. As Kasper said, expect discount between $100 and $150, which is not new since Apples educational discount are between $100 and $200.
I've known some people who ordered their Macs from Apple.com and claimed to be student while they're not. They still got the educational discount without anyone asking.
post #97 of 293
Duplicate post!!
post #98 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

I'd like to echo other's sentiments here and state that cheaper does not mean lower quality. What I feel Apple should do is mainly focus on their Macbook line.

Lower the price of the Unibody MacBook 13" to $999.

Introduce a 15" MacBook with NVIDIA integrated graphics, 2.26GHz CPU for $1499

Introduce a 17" MacBook with NVIDIA integrated graphics, 2.4GHz CPU and 1680x1050 LCD for $1999


And a midrange desktop.

integrated graphics is a joke at $1500 and a super rip off at $2000.

even more so then you can get laptops with 17" mate 2.56 and ati 4850 512 + 4gb system ram for $1600
post #99 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

It does seem a little strange that Apple refuses to sell lower performing hardware at lower prices.

yes but does Microsoft sell their wares by having trained sales staff, training staff, tech support. can you walk into an Windows store and spend an hour asking questions and then walk out without buying a thing and no grief. do you get to deal with staff that doesn't pull tricks like suddenly being out of stock on the item you want after you refuse to buy the extended warranty.

some folks find these kinds of things worth that 'apple tax'

Quote:
Apple consistently sells premium priced computers with entry level graphics.

for entry level graphics, looks pretty good. certainly good enough for many folks outside of the tech geeks that hang out on forums like this talking like what they want is what the other 99.9% of the world wants or needs

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #100 of 293
Uh-oh.

When Apple has tried this in the past, they've always done it without compromising their ultra high margins... if they were to make a $500 machine, it would be made from recycled dog poo in order to keep the margin untouched. Given how they cut corners on the high-end machines, I dread to think what a cheap Mac would feature. Celeron? Atom? Refurbished screens from 5 year old Dells? Whatever it is, there will be a major catch.
post #101 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

By refusing to let anyone else build chipsets for Intel Nehalem processors, Intel is trying to hold back their competitors long enough to get graphics embedded into all their processors. If they succeed with that strategy Intel will own both the chipset and entry level graphics market. nVidia and ATI will be left with only the mid-high end graphics market that they already own.

.

AMD / ATI will still have the amd cpu low end video market and there is no way that the us gov will let amd die and intel have 100% of the market.
post #102 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxy View Post

Uh-oh.

When Apple has tried this in the past, they've always done it without compromising their ultra high margins...

You do realize that Apple's gross margins are lower than RiM and MS, and I would suspect lower than Dell and HP's comparable machines where they try to make a solid buck. It's only the cheap machines that the vendors have razor thin margins that require pre-installed crapware to be added so they can make a buck. I don't see or want Apple getting into that game as both a stockholder and as a customer.
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post #103 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

me and a few others here thought that the loss last month might do it combined with the new MSFT ads, however, remember that Apple is painted into a corner by themselves. Many know the apple profit margin can be from 80% to 400% (at least what I have read online) with the Mac Pro actually being the fairest of them all price wise, however, also note that it uses PREMIUM EEC RAM as well as higher end CPU's, Apple could have used CHEAPER MEMORY and CHEAPER CPU and had a machine that is faster, then it's present offerings, again, this is by Apple design.

The mac pro is about $1000+ over priced with system at $1000-$1200 with x2 the ram and much better video.
post #104 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon View Post

The mac pro is about $1000+ over priced with system at $1000-$1200 with x2 the ram and much better video.

You must be on crack.

We've already gone throught this. Lenovo and Dell announced Xeon systems and much to even my surprise they were anything close to be a grand cheaper. Try again.
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post #105 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

As a stockholder I always worry about companies making less net profit per unit.

Not unless the company sells more units.

50% marketshare, no less.
post #106 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You do realize that Apple's gross margins are lower than RiM and MS

MS makes software, not hardware. Of course MS has higher margins.
Quote:
and I would suspect lower than Dell and HP's comparable machines where they try to make a solid buck.

In 2005, Dell's gross margin was 18% and Apple's was 36%. Dells net profit was 6%, Apple's was 9% (I don't know what Apple did with the 27% that disappeared along the way but for starters, developing OS X isn't free).

If you look at a high-end professional line Dell like the Precision, a Mac with identical specs costs much more. Plus, the Dell Precision includes 3Y CompleteCare with on-site repairs. Apple charges extra for 3Y AppleCare and it still doesn't include on-site repairs. So they're clearly hoarding money in an anachronistic manner, and at some point they're gonna grow tired of their 3.32% worldwide marketshare and do something drastic to make it grow. If the stockholders don't like it, too bad.
post #107 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by CU10 View Post

Not unless the company sells more units.

50% marketshare, no less.

More units is only viable if your net profits are greater. Then you have to look at sustainably, if you lower prices for a stronger dollar and weak economy, you can get yourself in trouble when those reverse. It's a tricky balance, but one that Apple has exceeded at over the last decade.
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post #108 of 293
Apple has always been conservative

Which is why you won't see them make a big push into gaming nor have they
invested heavily into Enterprise. Both areas are notoriously hard to make a buck.
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post #109 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

More units is only viable if your net profits are greater. Then you have to look at sustainably, if you lower prices for a stronger dollar and weak economy, you can get yourself in trouble when those reverse. It's a tricky balance, but one that Apple has exceeded at over the last decade.

Perhaps CU10 was thinking of the time-tested phrase, "That's OK, they'll make it up in volume!"
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post #110 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

More units is only viable if your net profits are greater. Then you have to look at sustainably, if you lower prices for a stronger dollar and weak economy, you can get yourself in trouble when those reverse. It's a tricky balance, but one that Apple has exceeded at over the last decade.

They could lose money on every sale, but make it up in volume.

EDIT: Echo... echo... echo!
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post #111 of 293
Good. The base white Macbook should start around $699, not $999. If that means it gets a 1.6GHz processor instead of 2GHz and only a gig of RAM, so be it.
post #112 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

I disagree with the cell phone comment. Most people that I know who have the iPhone love the "iPod Touch" portion of the device. As a phone, they say its a horrible device. Most of it is to blame on carriers. All of them have faults, big glaring faults.

"The iPhone is an amazing phone, given you don't need a phone!" (Common joke at work)

Okay, most people I know love the iPhone as a phone too. I'm not blaming Apple for what AT&T's network does. AT&T has been great me for and all my friends that have it. That's not saying service wherever you may be (I'm in San Francisco) is horrible.

I agree with you they all have their faults and advantages. But I have friends on other networks (Sprint, Verizon) that think their service sucks too.

Either way, both of us are right. No one is wrong here.
post #113 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Perhaps CU10 was thinking of the time-tested phrase, "That's OK, they'll make it up in volume!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

They could lose money on every sale, but make it up in volume.

EDIT: Echo... echo... echo!

That does seem to be the business rationale of so many.
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post #114 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

Good. The base white Macbook should start around $699, not $999. If that means it gets a 1.6GHz processor instead of 2GHz and only a gig of RAM, so be it.

It'd have to have old graphics too. Something like Intel X3100 graphics. I think the $599-699 range is perfect for developing a Tablet MID. The difficult part is the software. It has to be more functional than a phone OS but not quite as involved as a desktop/laptop OS
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post #115 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That does seem to be the business rationale of so many.

Then they can try it for themselves and see how it works -- just don't expect anyone else to adopt the theory.

Really, I keep hearing all these armchair CEOs telling us how "Apple could make so much more money if only..." Get back to me when you've got $30 billion in the bank. A few flying pigs might enhance believability.
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post #116 of 293
Just an example related to the price of PC vs Mac based on me just getting a new PC in my job:

I just got a HP Elitebook 2530, my background is that over the past 20 years I have had 13 Macs and this is my 10th PC based on total of myself, household and job. Some PCs I have had have been cheap crap, other have been a quality product like the Elitebook appears to be (ask me in a year and i will now), but how does it compare to the Macbook (3 of them of different model in my household)

Macbook/Elitebook: 2.0/1.6 GHz processor, 160/80 GB HD, 2/2 GB RAM

Dimesions: Mac: 325 x 227 x 25 mm, HP: 282 X 237 x 35 mm, Weight: Mac: 2276 g, HP: 2126 g

Explanation: These are my measurements, it appears that HP forgot to include the 6 cell battery in the dimensions (6 and 3 cell are identical at their website as far as dimensions and weigh are concerned) and neither included the mains unit, where the Mac unit scores better in dimensions and weight. As far as thickness is concerned the HP is tapered (max 35 mm, min 29 with pads) so I used the average (it is specified to around 25 mm !)

LCD: The Mac display is SUPERIOR, the HP display simply does not belong to a premium PC.

Of course the HP has a 10 inch screen, and have a selling point of being a small light notebook, but the limitation in my briefcase is basically volume not weight (within reason, and this is) and having a 13 inch is always an advantage, and the volume of the Mac (not counting the smaller power) is about 80% of the PC!

Then to the point: List MSRP: Mac: USD 1 299, HP: USD 1 749

Well, this is only a small example, but it illustrates that there is no simple solution to wether there is a Mac tax or not, and I sincerely hope that we will not see anything resembling a CHEAP Mac like the 600 USD HP in the Microsoft commercial on TV. Still I would not mind seeing Apple keep on developing good products and still survive at a slightly lower margin.
post #117 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Get back to me when you've got $30 billion in the bank. A few flying pigs might enhance believability.

Swine flu is airborne*. Does that count?


* It can be spread by droplet contact from coughing and sneezing, but it can't remain active in the air for long periods.
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post #118 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Swine flu is airborne*. Does that count?

No, but I won't squeal on you.
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post #119 of 293
Just give me a Headless Mac. I don't want the iMac to get "cheaper" in quality.

I'll buy my own Display while not destroying the margin for Apple selling a headless Mid-tower.
post #120 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

You must be on crack.

We've already gone throught this. Lenovo and Dell announced Xeon systems and much to even my surprise they were anything close to be a grand cheaper. Try again.

As everyone who knows me knows, I think Apple is overpriced, that said I get most of my Macs from Apple friends and get around 25=35% off, depending on unit, refresh or end of life (normally the best deal, EOL (end of life)), however, I have done enough research to show that a PC built close to a MAC PRO comes out to the same if not more. This doesn't mean it's NOT overpriced as the PC manufacture and Apple have decent margins on them.

My point was Apple could have easily built a 4 and 8 core i7 system with great DDR (non ECC) and you would have a machine that if you built retail would cost $800 (i7 Machine), so actual manufacturing cost would be about $450, instead, Apple chooses higher end so they can have a higher profit margin. In other words, they could have built an i7 machine at $450 (our cost would be $800 to build, retail), and sell it for $1200.

With the Macbook (about $250 to make) and AIR (I can't and won't go there), these machines are somewhat overpriced, thing is, I don't know how they will release something cheaper (which on paper is very easy to do and still be of good quality, remember, Macbook not that expensive to make, especially with Unibody), but because of these two items, I don't know how they come out with a cheaper machine unless they add newer 4 core CPU's to the MACBOOK and MACBOOK pro and start pricing laptops based on cores.

In the end, the consumer wins and Apple has not paid attention to the PC user for a long time, it's all been iPhone, iPhone, iPhone.
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