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Microsoft ups cash limit, takes aim at MacBook Pros in new ad - Page 8

post #281 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightstriker View Post

why is the Bk Value meal ad on this site?

Because the topic is Windows. It's the same thing.
post #282 of 506
Pic of Pinnacle Studio at http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA280_.jpg
This'll change her mind. Easy folks, actresses need jobs too.
post #283 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

i will miss fire wire .
i hope they keep it . the data just rockets along .

Apple has no plans to get rid of FW. I didn't mean to imply that.

They did get rid of, as predicted, all FW400 on Macs. Apple really did mess up with that standard by not making the port design carry on through the way FW800, 1600 & 3200 as well as USB1.0, 2.0 & 3.0 all use the same port design and are backwards compatible to previous implementations within that port design despite some pin changes.

It seems that are making some corrections and learning from old mistakes. They are now using mini-DisplayPort on all their machines which is great now that there is a single, future-forward setup for all their products. Though in typical Apple tradition it will be awhile before the majority of the industry catches up with the majority of their products.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Because the topic is Windows. It's the same thing.

They both offer products that will suffice but aren't the best experience for what they offer.
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post #284 of 506
Someone should tell "Sheila" that 2GB RAM on OS X feels like 8GB RAM on Windows Vista.
post #285 of 506
Enough of that Mac snobbery!

Having said that...

She looks a bit PC.

And in this particular occasion, I think it takes some ignorance not to realize, what a poor choice the PC is compared to the basic MacBook Pro. Software - Mac wins. RAM - in real-life situation, I am confident that Mac wins. And you can upgrade that with more DDR3.

So, this time, MS got a bit desperate... But hey, aren't those 'I'm a Mac' ads a bit dated too?
post #286 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

About $300.

The dumb average user is always screwed when buying computer and in life. Nothing anyone can do to change that. Given that Winblows Sh1tsta needs 4 GB of RAM just to boot up in a reasonable amount of time that argument alone falls apart pretty fast.

Nevermind all the other factors such as viruses, having to reinstall windows and all your applications every 6 months, etc.

Bullcrap.

Unless iMovie has reached the heights of Final Cut Pro... For Pinnacle Studio 12 Plus, you'll have to waste around $60 - 70; at least that is how much I have paid here in NZ (NZ$140).

Vista works fine with 2GB and I was editing my home videos on above mentioned software and aging AMD X2 platform without any problems.
post #287 of 506
You guys are pussies. It's not MS v. Apple here.

It's all about Sheila. So let's pile on.

I really doubt she's a filmmaker or whatever they're claiming. And I think her choice shows she's maybe half as bright as her goofy smile.

Sheila should be put back on her chain under the porch.
post #288 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

in most cases no
apple uses top of the line stuff
wintel on there high end may match apple
but most others use the cheapest of the shelf junk . they are working on razor thin margins
re fubished components abound in wintel machines .
plus mac has machine tooled alum laptops now >>>> how green is that !!!

there are some good non apple machines out there . its just that they cost more than a mac .
dude ever wonder why us fan boys are so ....

I USED to be a very avid Apple fan. Now that Apple has got an ego too big for itself, I had to move away. They make designer computers, not high quality computers. Evident by my THREE MPBs which all died on their own, and the huge lines for Apple Genius bars (It was so very hard for me to get an appointment because so many people were coming back with broken computers. In the 1 hour I spent there waiting for my last replacement, I saw Apple replace 5 computers. Not good QC in my book) Having opened up an Apple laptop, and looking in, I saw the same chips as a regular PC.

Given, yes, there are companies out there that use refurb stuff... and Apple is not one of them. But I can still build a comparable computer cheaper than a Mac. It won't look a pretty, but it will function the same (if not better due to decent cooling!).

My Quad Core, 4gb, 500gb HD box cost me 500 bucks. Add a 20in screen for 200, add OS X for 150, iLife for 80, keyboard mouse for 30. You come out to $960. That is for a quad core. iMac dual core starts at 1100. And my quad core runs OS X perfectly, never had an issue with it! (I could subtract 100 bucks to bring back down to dual core, but for argument, no)

Was that extra time for a computer I wanted worth saving the 200 bucks, definitely. Am I using refurb equipment, definitely not. It is possible is my point.


I am curious... fan boys like you are so... what? Devout? By your signature, it seems as if Apple is a religion. I actually would like a response to this.
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post #289 of 506
I love these ads. Microsoft needs to do more of them and directly attack Apple's (lack of) features and overall prices more directly.

I'm a MacBook owner. I have a UniBody MacBook. It was a replacement for two plastic MacBooks that failed due to Apple's poor build quality.

I also find the arguments put forth by the Apple apologists to be hilarious.

One of the arguments that fails but is used the most is "total cost of ownership". A Mac user trying to use this argument is just downright stupid.

With a Mac Pro or MacBook Pro, you're spending more than double what you would on an equal PC. With the Mac Pro, you can build something with several times more GPU processing power and about 95% of the CPU power for around $800. With a MacBook Pro you can get a PC with the same processor, bigger HDD, blu-ray, a GPU that is at least twice as fast, and standard features like HDMI and card readers for half the cost. When you compare the iMac to PC desktops, there is no comparison. You can buy a better screen plus use actual DESKTOP components and get much more power for several hundred dollars less. I mean, look at the iMac. It's a laptop on a stand. You have to spend $1799 to get dedicated graphics. A $900 PC tower can have a Core i7 and at least a GeForce 9800 GT. Look at the MacBook. That system I compared to the MacBook Pro a few lines up is priced at $1299, same as the UniBody MacBook. Why even buy a MacBook? If you want a 13.3" screen, Dell's Studio XPS 13 offers dual GPUs running in hybrid SLI, an LED screen, 4GB of RAM, and a 7200RPM 320GB HDD for about the same price as the entry UniBody MacBook. It also has a 2.4GHz processor. Look at the Mac mini. $600 gets me 1GB of RAM and a notebook Core 2 Duo at 2GHz with a GeForce 9400M? $600 in the PC world will get me quad core, 4GB at least, and a good GPU.

There are other aspects to the "total cost of ownership" argument Apple fans like to make. One being anti-virus software. First of all, good AV software is free. Secondly, you have to be pretty stupid to get infected these days. IE and Firefox both guard against malware actively, and will give you multiple warnings and try to stop you from downloading malware at every step. Then Windows itself will attempt to stop you from installing and running it. So that part is bunk.

Then people like to go on to the software aspect. Apple apologists like to point out that Macs come with iLife. Well, I just recently reinstalled OS X to remove all of iLife except iPhoto. iLife is the ultimate in bloatware. By reinstalling OS X without iLife installed I have about 10GB more of free space, even though iLife only requires 6GB to be installed. The iLife suite is useless for most people, and iMovie is only good if you want to do Youtube or Mobile Me clips. It's no longer any good for producing actual movies that would be good enough to burn to DVD, which is still what most people want. Even iMovie's newest and most impressive feature, image stabilization, is a gimmick. All it does is zoom up on the picture. So you have to decide between having a full resolution shaky image or a lower quality still image.

Freeware is almost non-existant on a Mac as well. Aside from VLC, Perian, and Adium, what decent freeware is there? Nearly every piece of software wants you to pony up $5, $10, $15 to fully unlock it. On Windows theres a whole world of freeware thats nearly as or as good as the paid stuff. With Windows, you can get by entirely on freeware.

Another aspect to the "total cost of ownership" argument would be warranty and service. Apple is known for not covering basic build quality issues, just ask the first gen MacBook Air owners about their hinge problems. Apple offers NO damage coverage. With a prebuilt PC, the manufacturer will offer warranties that cost about the same as AppleCare that cover accidental and liquid damage. Apple doesn't do this. AppleCare isn't even available for phone support 24/7. And if you're like me, and they replaced your screen with a defective one, you have to drive 75 miles to your closest Apple Store to prove its defective and get a replacement!

Now that the "total cost of ownership" argument is completely and utterly dead, let's go back to the commercial.

In this commercial she gets an HP HDX system. That means for about half the cost of the MacBook Pro she got a slightly faster GPU, the possibility of blu-ray, a bigger HDD, card readers, HDMI, and all of that good stuff.

Sure, the screen resolution MIGHT be 1366x768. It could be 1920x1080 as well, we don't know what specific model she got. However, 1366x768 is a true 16x9 resolution. Which means even though it is slightly lower than the 1440x900 screen on the MacBook Pro, its not the out an out of proportion 16x10 screen. It's a proper 16x9 screen which is perfect for video. And since it will have standard features like HDMI, she can connect it to any modern display (HDTV, computer monitor) without having to use a mess of expensive adapters and cables.

Some people mention "Windows Movie Maker" as the software Vista comes with. That is true. However, unlike a Mac, you're not stuck with only the pack-in software to choose from. It's extremely likely she already has the software she wants. Or she can buy the software she wants and still come in at saving money compared to buying a MacBook Pro.

The best part of the commercial is the comment about the amount of RAM the MacBook Pro comes with. It's true. Apple's computers tend to come with 1/4 (Mac mini) to 1/2 as much memory as PCs do. Some argue that its because OS X is more efficient. That's just a load of BS that you can smell from a mile away. I've been using OS X for years now, as well as Windows for even longer. Windows runs much better on the same hardware, and Leopard is every bit as "bloated" as Vista is.

In the end, Microsoft needs to keep these ads up. It shows what a ripoff Macs are and how you can get much better for half the money by going with a PC.

And to anyone who says Microsoft is "scared", keep in mind that Apple's worldwide market share is only at about 3.5%, Microsoft's is at about 90%. You think about that
post #290 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrod182 View Post

I'm sorry but there is very little rationale behind spending $34 every time you want to backup your 1TB disk. Just buy another drive and keep differential archives, or mirror your disk even. The use of BD-R for backup is really not the best thing it has going for it. Besides if you want Blu-ray movies buy a player, why the hell would you want to watch a 1080p flick on your 15.4" display. Kinda of a waste.

How many people take DVD's on the road with them and watch on their laptops? Loads is the answer, on planes, in hotels, people even use their laptop to watch DVD's while the wife or kids are watching TV. This is why Apple Laptops play DVD's no? Why else would they have DVD player?

Okay, so now imagine you have upgraded your DVD player to a Blu-Ray player at home and like many people are now starting to do you are now buying all your movies on Blu-Ray instead of DVD. How you gonna watch your movies on your laptop now?

This is what people fail to realise with this silly argument about HD movies being pointless on a laptop screen. The point is that people do not buy Blu-Ray's to watch on a laptop, but people do buy Blu-Ray movies and the ability to watch them on their laptop is important to many people.

Or are you saying that all Mac owners should buy both Blu-Ray and DVD versions of every film they purchase?
post #291 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1974 View Post

If she was really a professional filmmaker:

1) She would not be buying her own PC, her employer/company would
2) Her budget would certainly not be limited to $2000. You cannot make competitive professional work on that budget, not with a PC or even a Mac (not so sure about this last one)
3) She'd know a little better about the differences in hardware between a MBP and her HP

==> She is a filmmaker enthusiast. And that explains her choice...

Sorry but that is just dumb.

People who make films work for companies? Are you sure? no filmmaker works for a company anymore. Independent filmmakers work for themselves, make their own films and try to get distribution deals after the fact. Studio's may finance a project up front but the talent still work for themselves.

Why would her budget be more than $2000 just because she is a filmmaker? Do you actually know any filmmakers? There are some filmmakers out there making whole movies for $20,000, do you really think that being frugal with their hardware choices is not something they would do?

You obviously live in a fantasy world where all filmmakers are Michael Bay. Believe me, the vast majority of filmmakers in the US are independent and broke.
post #292 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphster View Post

How many people take DVD's on the road with them and watch on their laptops? Loads is the answer, on planes, in hotels, people even use their laptop to watch DVD's while the wife or kids are watching TV. This is why Apple Laptops play DVD's no? Why else would they have DVD player?

DVD Player has been there since OS 8 and it will remain there for a long time. You're assumption that "loads" take DVD with them when they travel doesn't actually tell us anything. I'm sure some due, but anyone with any smarts would just have a copy of a movie on their HDD as running the optical drive on a plane is power inefficient. Good luck getting through a two hour movie if it's Blu-ray.

But then there is the age old issue of the drives themselves. Apple has to fund the manufacturing of and charge a $1000 plus for a Blu-ray drive or make their machines considerably thicker. Does either one sound like a viable option for Apple? Unless Apple can ahold of TARDIS technology you are out of luck.

I would like Apple to add OS support for HDCP so an external BRD can be added to all Macs except the Mac Pro which can take an internal drive, but don't expect any Mac notebooks with BRDs any time soon.
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post #293 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosx View Post

I love these ads. Microsoft needs to do more of them and directly attack Apple's (lack of) features and overall prices more directly.

I'm a MacBook owner. I have a UniBody MacBook. It was a replacement for two plastic MacBooks that failed due to Apple's poor build quality.

I also find the arguments put forth by the Apple apologists to be hilarious.

One of the arguments that fails but is used the most is "total cost of ownership". A Mac user trying to use this argument is just downright stupid.

With a Mac Pro or MacBook Pro, you're spending more than double what you would on an equal PC. With the Mac Pro, you can build something with several times more GPU processing power and about 95% of the CPU power for around $800. With a MacBook Pro you can get a PC with the same processor, bigger HDD, blu-ray, a GPU that is at least twice as fast, and standard features like HDMI and card readers for half the cost. When you compare the iMac to PC desktops, there is no comparison. You can buy a better screen plus use actual DESKTOP components and get much more power for several hundred dollars less. I mean, look at the iMac. It's a laptop on a stand. You have to spend $1799 to get dedicated graphics. A $900 PC tower can have a Core i7 and at least a GeForce 9800 GT. Look at the MacBook. That system I compared to the MacBook Pro a few lines up is priced at $1299, same as the UniBody MacBook. Why even buy a MacBook? If you want a 13.3" screen, Dell's Studio XPS 13 offers dual GPUs running in hybrid SLI, an LED screen, 4GB of RAM, and a 7200RPM 320GB HDD for about the same price as the entry UniBody MacBook. It also has a 2.4GHz processor. Look at the Mac mini. $600 gets me 1GB of RAM and a notebook Core 2 Duo at 2GHz with a GeForce 9400M? $600 in the PC world will get me quad core, 4GB at least, and a good GPU.

There are other aspects to the "total cost of ownership" argument Apple fans like to make. One being anti-virus software. First of all, good AV software is free. Secondly, you have to be pretty stupid to get infected these days. IE and Firefox both guard against malware actively, and will give you multiple warnings and try to stop you from downloading malware at every step. Then Windows itself will attempt to stop you from installing and running it. So that part is bunk.

Then people like to go on to the software aspect. Apple apologists like to point out that Macs come with iLife. Well, I just recently reinstalled OS X to remove all of iLife except iPhoto. iLife is the ultimate in bloatware. By reinstalling OS X without iLife installed I have about 10GB more of free space, even though iLife only requires 6GB to be installed. The iLife suite is useless for most people, and iMovie is only good if you want to do Youtube or Mobile Me clips. It's no longer any good for producing actual movies that would be good enough to burn to DVD, which is still what most people want. Even iMovie's newest and most impressive feature, image stabilization, is a gimmick. All it does is zoom up on the picture. So you have to decide between having a full resolution shaky image or a lower quality still image.

Freeware is almost non-existant on a Mac as well. Aside from VLC, Perian, and Adium, what decent freeware is there? Nearly every piece of software wants you to pony up $5, $10, $15 to fully unlock it. On Windows theres a whole world of freeware thats nearly as or as good as the paid stuff. With Windows, you can get by entirely on freeware.

Another aspect to the "total cost of ownership" argument would be warranty and service. Apple is known for not covering basic build quality issues, just ask the first gen MacBook Air owners about their hinge problems. Apple offers NO damage coverage. With a prebuilt PC, the manufacturer will offer warranties that cost about the same as AppleCare that cover accidental and liquid damage. Apple doesn't do this. AppleCare isn't even available for phone support 24/7. And if you're like me, and they replaced your screen with a defective one, you have to drive 75 miles to your closest Apple Store to prove its defective and get a replacement!

Now that the "total cost of ownership" argument is completely and utterly dead, let's go back to the commercial.

In this commercial she gets an HP HDX system. That means for about half the cost of the MacBook Pro she got a slightly faster GPU, the possibility of blu-ray, a bigger HDD, card readers, HDMI, and all of that good stuff.

Sure, the screen resolution MIGHT be 1366x768. It could be 1920x1080 as well, we don't know what specific model she got. However, 1366x768 is a true 16x9 resolution. Which means even though it is slightly lower than the 1440x900 screen on the MacBook Pro, its not the out an out of proportion 16x10 screen. It's a proper 16x9 screen which is perfect for video. And since it will have standard features like HDMI, she can connect it to any modern display (HDTV, computer monitor) without having to use a mess of expensive adapters and cables.

Some people mention "Windows Movie Maker" as the software Vista comes with. That is true. However, unlike a Mac, you're not stuck with only the pack-in software to choose from. It's extremely likely she already has the software she wants. Or she can buy the software she wants and still come in at saving money compared to buying a MacBook Pro.

The best part of the commercial is the comment about the amount of RAM the MacBook Pro comes with. It's true. Apple's computers tend to come with 1/4 (Mac mini) to 1/2 as much memory as PCs do. Some argue that its because OS X is more efficient. That's just a load of BS that you can smell from a mile away. I've been using OS X for years now, as well as Windows for even longer. Windows runs much better on the same hardware, and Leopard is every bit as "bloated" as Vista is.

In the end, Microsoft needs to keep these ads up. It shows what a ripoff Macs are and how you can get much better for half the money by going with a PC.

And to anyone who says Microsoft is "scared", keep in mind that Apple's worldwide market share is only at about 3.5%, Microsoft's is at about 90%. You think about that

Sorry, I've not read your post just caught the last sentence scrolling through it on my iPhone.

You do know that Apple profits are over half that of B$. They make the whole thing...$$$$$$ for Apple.
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post #294 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

No one is saying that it's not technically possible (which you seem to be echoing over and over despite this being well known), just that it's financially viable for Apple to include a $1000+ option for a 9.5mm Blu-ray drive that will satisfy very few and hurt their business model. If you can't see the logic you'll have to go to the corner with Teckstud.

How did you conclude that a 9.5mm blu-ray drive would cost more than four times more than an entire blu-ray set top box? The 9.5mm model is a $560 option on a Levono T500, and that's a burner mind you. Mind you, when Apple first started putting Superdrives in Powermacs the things costed $1,000 if you were to buy one outright. If Apple's laptops were thick enough to accept a 12.5mm blu-ray burner the cost would go down to $299.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Come again? The MacBook and MacBook Pro are the same thickness and yet the MacBook pro has FW800. Also, both machine types have Ethernet which is a taller port than either FW800. Saying that the MacBook doesn't have FW because its too thin makes me think that you haven't even seen a Mac before.

The MacBook lost Firewire when it went to the unibody enclosure and the motherboard moved all to one side (meaning all of the ports had to be as well). I thought that had something to do with the thinness of them, but perhaps it's unrelated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The MS ads do have a point, but they are preaching to their own built in audience, not actually procuring a new audience. There are plenty of PCs that are more than suitable for ones needs. Apple has a very limited selection of PC models to choose from. They are an over-grown boutique shop in many ways. You need to stop thinking that Apple should try to appeal to everyone's needs across the board and realize that they are trying to only appeal to the needs of customers that can make them money. What you are asking for is a lose-lose financial situation for Apple that doesn't benefit the average Mac consumer.

DVD was introduced in the United States in 1997 and by late 1999 Apple had playback support standard in their mid and high iMac series. Blu-Ray was introduced in 2006 and...here we are mid-2009 with no Blu-Ray compatibility on even the most expensive Mac. With the professional video and audio tools being a significant part of Apple's software lineup, and a supposed appreciation for the highest quality possible, I don't see how blu-ray support falls into the category of features Mac consumers don't need.
post #295 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosx View Post

In the end, Microsoft needs to keep these ads up. It shows what a ripoff Macs are and how you can get much better for half the money by going with a PC.
...You think about that

The RAM upgrade on the MB Pro is $100 and you get a far superior machine. In two years' time, it will still be worth a lot and will be working allright. The HP, or whatever Sheila bought will be worth significantly less. And you think about that, money-boy.

Aluminum housing, great trackpad, excellent OS... all these are just a bonus.
post #296 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

How did you conclude that a 9.5mm blu-ray drive would cost more than four times more than an entire blu-ray set top box? The 9.5mm model is a $560 option on a Levono T500, and that's a burner mind you.

Those are 12.7mm drives and they are twice the cost of the large tray loading. IF you go slot loading they cost more. If you shave 3mm off the thickness and size of components they cost more. If you think that 12.7mm Blu-ray drives that are made in large quantites from multiple OEMs are going to be as cheap as a 9.5mm Blu-ray burner that doesn't exist on the market and that Apple would have to fund to get manufactured then you are sadly mistaken.

BTW, The previous MB had all it's ports on one side and it has a FW400. To think that it's too thin when thicker ports exist and FW exists on MBPs that are just as thin proves that you are posting just to argue and really just trolling. I wish you luck with your future posts.
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post #297 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosx View Post

In the end, Microsoft needs to keep these ads up. It shows what a ripoff Macs are and how you can get much better for half the money by going with a PC.

Then why are you here? If you love PCs so much, go to a PC forum and buy more PCs. All you do is bitch and moan about Apple in every single comment you make. Boring!
post #298 of 506
Here are the facts-

"Apple reported $7.9 billion in revenues and $1.14 billion in net profit, but those numbers don't include most of its iPhone business, which is hidden away in subscription accounting under GAAP rules. For that reason, Apple also released its real earnings: $11.68 billion in revenue and $2.44 billion in net profits. The company also reported a cash position of $24.5 billion.

Microsoft's quarterly revenues grew by 9%, compared to Apple's non-GAAP revenue increase of 75.1% year over year."
~Appleinsider http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...microsoft.html
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post #299 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosx View Post

In the end, Microsoft needs to keep these ads up. It shows what a ripoff Macs are and how you can get much better for half the money by going with a PC.

Kias in general are more than 50% cheaper than Mercedes Benz and BMW. They are both made of steel and plastic. I bet once you have the money the first thing you will do is buy a BMW or a Benz.

Some people sound like they are the one paying for others Mac purchases!!

Quote:
And to anyone who says Microsoft is "scared", keep in mind that Apple's worldwide market share is only at about 3.5%, Microsoft's is at about 90%. You think about that

What happened to the rest 6.5%?!
post #300 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Kias in general are more than 50% cheaper than Mercedes Benz and BMW. They are both made of steel and plastic. I bet once you have the money the first thing you will do is buy a BMW or a Benz.

Some people sound like they are the one paying for others Mac purchases!!



What happened to the rest 6.5%?!

Yeah...

When your Kia gets into an accident, I bet you will really appreciate your 50% savings then.
Both are made of steel and plastic, but only one will save your life!

I guess that is why Jobs himself drives a Benz (from Newsweek).

My friend was in a huge crash. The cops could not believe he walked away alive. All the cops on the scene ended up buying Mercedes.

If your computer were to crash, which would you prefer, the cheaper PC or the Mac?

It is nice to save money, but when you are in trouble -- you only want the best!
post #301 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSXRikal View Post

I've known the PC are for decades... 25 years of hard work configuring systems to do this, or that... 25 years i've worked on MS-DOS, Windows, Win9x, Win2K, WinME, WinXP etc...

I bought my Macbook Pro 2 years ago. It was a dare for me to prove (mainly myself) that a Mac would fail at even the most basic tasks i had devised for it. Boy was i wrong...

Not only did this little endeavour cost me a new computer but i also got rid of my OLD COMPAQ LAPTOP, a beefy, bulky laptop with tons (supposedly) of power.

Today, i run Macs... nothing but Macs... At the office, everyone around me wonder how i can work with a Mac in this Windows environment. Recently, my director (and friend) asked me howcome i never complained about computer freezing anymore... I said: "I switched to Mac"

You should have looked at his face.

Micro$loth forgets in their ad campain that Useability is worth more than the actual computer. Vista does not come close to OSX for useability...

Yes it's cheaper to buy a PC... but how much time do you spend trying to get it to work compared to a Mac and how much is that time worth?

-----------
GSXRikal


Amen to that!
post #302 of 506
An HP over an Apple?1 You have to be kidding me. Like an OP states they don't ever even get to the dilemma this shopper ill come too when he tries to "cut video" on her shiny under powered laptop. Microsoft is pulling out all the phony stops with their own PC/vs. Mac commercials. But like anything else WINDOWS does they do not give you the whole story and in this case actually lie about how the PC stacks up against the even priced MBP. Slower processor, slower DDR2 memory, and its one huge downfall is that it runs WINDOWS!!! Windows is simply the worst operating system they is available at the moment. With a Mac this young lady "shopper" would've gotten a machine that was not only a faster machine overall but she would've been given the software, the BEST software there is to edit video, music, photos, etc.


STOP LYING IN YOUR ADS MICROSOFT!!! Balmer is an idiot if he thinks anyone is actually thinking this marketing strategy will work. If anything it tells you to buy a Mac for many reasons and on many fronts. Viva La iLife and iWork!!! Let's face it the lack of ANY viruses on a ac is reason itself to buy a Mac. Plus they are beautiful and distinct. AND like all us Apple fans, it just works. It just works!!!
post #303 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Those are 12.7mm drives and they are twice the cost of the large tray loading. IF you go slot loading they cost more. If you shave 3mm off the thickness and size of components they cost more. If you think that 12.7mm Blu-ray drives that are made in large quantites from multiple OEMs are going to be as cheap as a 9.5mm Blu-ray burner that doesn't exist on the market and that Apple would have to fund to get manufactured then you are sadly mistaken.

No, the Levono T400 uses a 9.5mm drive. It's not slot load, but Macs don't need to be slot-load.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

BTW, The previous MB had all it's ports on one side and it has a FW400. To think that it's too thin when thicker ports exist and FW exists on MBPs that are just as thin proves that you are posting just to argue and really just trolling. I wish you luck with your future posts.

Wow, trolling? Really? The ports having to all be on one side and the hard drive being in the upper left corner is why there isn't room for Firewire. I assumed that the unibody Macbook's slimmer design played a role in all of that, but as I said perhaps it does not.

At any rate, the whole thing seems like a chicken and egg scenario to me. 9.5mm Blu-Ray drives are expensive because only one manufacturer seems to be using them (everyone else builds 1.5-2 inch thick "laptops"). If Apple were to use them in their MacBook Pro line the cost of the drive would decrease due to supply and demand (again, superdrives cost $1k when Apple started putting them in Powermacs). Regardless, there's absolutely no excuse for Blu-Ray not being available (if not standard) in their desktop series.
post #304 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by roehlstation View Post

You don't get HD and 5.1 support unless you go Vegas Movie Studio 9 Platinum.

You can get Adobe Premiere Elements and Photoshop Elements for $99. Photoshop Elements is a much better editor than iPhoto and Premiere Elements rocks. You can edit HDV or AVCHD without converting to an Apple format and encode either back to AVCHD to write to a standard DVD or Blu-Ray. You can't do that with iMovie or FCE.
post #305 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

No, the Levono T400 uses a 9.5mm drive. It's not slot load, but Macs don't need to be slot-load.

You are correct. I am wrong. 9.5mm Blu-ray burners are available. They are all listed as being 0.4", or 10mm which is why I didn't see them. They are listed at over $1k on Google Shopping with some used ones on eBay for around $650. That isn't exactly an Apple solution there. Also, when was the last time Apple had tray loading drives in their consumer products, especially their laptops? Don't forget, when Apple released the MBP with a single layer burner and slower speeds when the previous model MBP had a double layer burner and faster speeds. They didn't change the case to accommodate the optical drive, they changed the optical drive to accommodate the case. This will be no different. Apple is not going to add a tray loader just to appease a few people who don't want to use a cheaper external solution.

Quote:
Regardless, there's absolutely no excuse for Blu-Ray not being available (if not standard) in their desktop series.

Sure there is. The basic answer is that they choose not to, but I suspect that it's a two front offensive. They are moving to push the weak tech that is optical media out of their notebooks. It takes up a lot of space, it's slow, it sues a lot of power, write errors are common, and it don't hold much data for the cost. The other reason is to combat Blu-ray movies with their "good enough" digital solution for watching movies on your computer, though they will eventually have to add HDCP.

PS: These drives seem very new. We know Apple needs time to test a product. Were these drives available when the Mac notebooks launched last year? I'm guessing they weren't as I looked for them then. Maybe on a slow week Apple will offer these at BTO, but you know people are going to compare the prices to the large tray loading drives and bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch. So, will Apple have to add the drives now that they are available and in what looks like sufficient quantities or will they power play to get rid of optical media altogether. I vote for the latter.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #306 of 506
I heard she was the "film maker" ILM hired to come up with the concept for Jar Jar Binks. Unfortunately all she had to work with at the time, was a machine running Windows 98. I can't wait to see what's next now that she's running Vista!
Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
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Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
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post #307 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

Alright, lets do a price point comparison.

From Best Buy (and we all know we can find better deals)
HP HDX 16: $1,149.99
Minuses: Screen size, DDR2.
Add: $110 for Sony Vegas/ACID for iLife like compatibility. Use Picassa and other free tools to replace iPhoto, iWeb. You can find free AV online too to protect yourself. AVG, Comodo, etc...
Total: $1260 (Add 150 for OS X if we wanted a hackintosh: $1410)

From Apple (and we all know that you can't find a better price that doesn't involve rebates)
MacBook Pro Basic: $2000
Pluses: Screen, DDR3, OS X.
Minus: $80 for iLife (to make comparable to Windows PCs with out that software)
Add: $30 for additional 2GB Ram upgrade. $90 for HDD upgrade to 500gb (assuming we do these upgrades ourselves)
Total: $2040

So yeah... I dunno. Remember, Macs and PCs use the exact same internals! Is your Apple really worth 700 dollars more? To me it isn't. $700 for a label and a sexy case. Keep in mind, I won't buy an HP either. If I were to buy a real laptop: Lenovo. Those are some durable machines!

Agreed. Macs win for fit and finish and slim design but in general I agree with you. Apple should simple lower their prices. Take $300 off and they are competitive again. People will pay a premium for OSX and for a quality machine - its just that the differential is too high right now, in my opinion.

I also agree that Windows 7 will offer more parity with OSX than we've seen for a while. Yes, we have heard the same story before but from many sources its evident that MSFT has gotten its house in order. I think its stupid to depend on your competition being pathetic.
post #308 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So, will Apple have to add the drives now that they are available and in what looks like sufficient quantities or will they power play to get rid of optical media altogether. I vote for the latter.

Well that's a whole other conversation, but I do hope they're not that stupid. Unless of course Apple's going to make mobileme free and up the storage capacity to a terabyte, and pay for our $140/mo 50Mbps internet connections.
post #309 of 506
Quote:
The RAM upgrade on the MB Pro is $100

Actually, you can get good DDR3 RAM at newegg for about $60 now.

Quote:
you get a far superior machine

Not really.

Go to newegg. For $1299 you can get a 15.4" system with a higher screen resolution, 4GB of DDR3, 320GB 7200 RPM HDD, GeForce 9800M GS 1GB, and either a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo or 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo depending on whether you want a blu-ray drive at that price.

The $1,999 MacBook Pro gets you 2GB of RAM, less HDD space on a slower drive, 1/4 the video memory on a significantly slower GPU thats only consumer grade (is supposed to be "Pro" after all) and at the low end of the mid-range consumer grade GPUs to top it off! You also don't get standard features like HDMI, card readers, and all of that good stuff. To connect to UniBody MacBook to an external display I have to have a mess of adapters and cables. Yet my PC only requires ONE HDMI cable.

Quote:
In two years' time, it will still be worth a lot and will be working allright. The HP, or whatever Sheila bought will be worth significantly less. And you think about that, money-boy.

Actually, if you look outside of the Apple apologist circles, Macs are dropping in value rapidly. On craigslist and ebay, you see Macs selling for about half of what they would sell for if sold to an Apple apologist.

PC owners are too intelligent for this sort of thing. They know the current $2,499 MacBook Pro only has about $900 worth of power. So no even somewhat intelligent PC owner is going to spend more than $450 on a 2 year old system with those specs.

Quote:
Aluminum housing

UniBody MacBook owner here. The "unibody" piece is strong, but the top portion housing the LCD and bottom cover are extremely weak, weaker than the plastic used on the HP I have thats similar to the ones purchased in these ads.

Quote:
great trackpad

The multi-touch gestures are a gimmick. Why would I use a trackpad over my Logitech MX Revolution mouse?

Quote:
excellent OS

Matter of opinion. I run Leopard, XP, and Vista. I've run Tiger in the past. Vista is better than all of them, and Windows 7 is even better.

Quote:
Kias in general are more than 50% cheaper than Mercedes Benz and BMW. They are both made of steel and plastic. I bet once you have the money the first thing you will do is buy a BMW or a Benz.

The difference is that BMW and Mercedes use higher quality components than Kia. They're also built to higher standards are all around, and are much safer and more "luxurious" to drive. They also have far more features than Kia.

Apple, on the other hand, uses the same Chinese manufacturers as HP, Sony, Acer, Lenovo and others. The only difference really, in build quality, is that Apple uses aluminum and others use various plastics. I can tell you from experience that the plastic consumer notebooks from HP are built better than Apple's aluminum and plastic systems. In fact, Apple's plastic systems are easily the worst built systems on the market. Apple's systems are light years behind HP, Dell, and Lenovo's business notebooks.

Macs also have far fewer features compared to PCs as well. You don't get blu-ray, HDMI, card readers, fingerprint readers, higher screen resolutions on mid-size notebooks, theres no dedicated GPU option for the smaller portable line. Apple's systems also tend to come with half the memory and have the HDD space of similarly priced or spec'ed systems. Apple uses lower quality panels (not the backlights) in their screens as well. Plus Apple only offers anti-glare screens on ONE model and they charge more PLUS the screen is lower spec'ed than the mirror (glossy) screen.

Your own argument kills itself. Apple's systems are far less featured than their PC counterparts, and they're built by the same Chinese manufacturers using the same internal components. Unlike BMW and Mercedes, which ARE built to higher standards and include far more features than their cheaper counterparts. Apple is the only company in the computer industry that currently charges more for less. Even Sony's systems are reasonably priced now.
post #310 of 506
You are a clown and a troll and you don't know what you are talking about. Windows 7 is Vista with a simplified interface but all the same underlying problem. Memory leaks, lousy multi-tasking, weird unexplained stalls and everything else that has become the hallmark of the cruft infested Windows desktop OS. Of course its being welcomed like manna from heaven mostly by teenage boys who are desperate to be rid of Vista on their game boxes but corporations are not impressed which is what counts. I looked at your lame web site. Yeah your some professional. VHS to DVD transfer and wedding videos. What a dope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnairmedia View Post

The Mac used to be unmatched for years... but Windows 7 is really going to give Apple a run for it's money. You Obviously have an extreme bias... the machine she picked up was really a decent machine and doesn't have the cost near to the Mac route (buying Final Cut Pro). I'm a filmmaker and have been using Macs for 8 years... but I've been very disappointed in the current direction of the company as of late. I wouldn't be so cocky about the superiority of macs... those days are gone.
post #311 of 506
Another troll. I guess you forgot to read the comments on the Asus on New Egg where one person after another complains about them being DOA out of the box.

You quote an internet price for the Asus but retail for the Mac. So what if the Mac is more expensive? It's worth it. Better quality, support and OS X. Interesting how so many of the insecure Windows trolls on this thread never utter the word Vista or think that Windows 7 is the second coming.

Your comments on Mac prices on eBay are total BS.

The HP stronger than the unibody Mac? I laughed at loud at that one. Not even worth saying more other than I don't think for a second you have a unibody Mac.

Multi-touch is a gimmick? Another LOL. You must use your "laptop" at a desk only.

HDMI? How many people use that? If I wanted it I would buy a $9 cable from Monoprice. One cable. I really don't need or want all those great PC features like buttons that don't work but light up real nice etc.

Your comments on Macs having fewer features and lesser hardware are just stupid but I lost interest after you said Vista is better than Leopard.

As has been said already macs do not use the same componenets as PC's. if you knew what you were talking about you would know that.

What an ass. if you can't afford a Mac just be happy you settled for Windows instead of taking out your frustrations trolling.




Quote:
Originally Posted by mosx View Post

Actually, you can get good DDR3 RAM at newegg for about $60 now.



Not really.

Go to newegg. For $1299 you can get a 15.4" system with a higher screen resolution, 4GB of DDR3, 320GB 7200 RPM HDD, GeForce 9800M GS 1GB, and either a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo or 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo depending on whether you want a blu-ray drive at that price.

The $1,999 MacBook Pro gets you 2GB of RAM, less HDD space on a slower drive, 1/4 the video memory on a significantly slower GPU thats only consumer grade (is supposed to be "Pro" after all) and at the low end of the mid-range consumer grade GPUs to top it off! You also don't get standard features like HDMI, card readers, and all of that good stuff. To connect to UniBody MacBook to an external display I have to have a mess of adapters and cables. Yet my PC only requires ONE HDMI cable.



Actually, if you look outside of the Apple apologist circles, Macs are dropping in value rapidly. On craigslist and ebay, you see Macs selling for about half of what they would sell for if sold to an Apple apologist.

PC owners are too intelligent for this sort of thing. They know the current $2,499 MacBook Pro only has about $900 worth of power. So no even somewhat intelligent PC owner is going to spend more than $450 on a 2 year old system with those specs.



UniBody MacBook owner here. The "unibody" piece is strong, but the top portion housing the LCD and bottom cover are extremely weak, weaker than the plastic used on the HP I have thats similar to the ones purchased in these ads.



The multi-touch gestures are a gimmick. Why would I use a trackpad over my Logitech MX Revolution mouse?



Matter of opinion. I run Leopard, XP, and Vista. I've run Tiger in the past. Vista is better than all of them, and Windows 7 is even better.



The difference is that BMW and Mercedes use higher quality components than Kia. They're also built to higher standards are all around, and are much safer and more "luxurious" to drive. They also have far more features than Kia.

Apple, on the other hand, uses the same Chinese manufacturers as HP, Sony, Acer, Lenovo and others. The only difference really, in build quality, is that Apple uses aluminum and others use various plastics. I can tell you from experience that the plastic consumer notebooks from HP are built better than Apple's aluminum and plastic systems. In fact, Apple's plastic systems are easily the worst built systems on the market. Apple's systems are light years behind HP, Dell, and Lenovo's business notebooks.

Macs also have far fewer features compared to PCs as well. You don't get blu-ray, HDMI, card readers, fingerprint readers, higher screen resolutions on mid-size notebooks, theres no dedicated GPU option for the smaller portable line. Apple's systems also tend to come with half the memory and have the HDD space of similarly priced or spec'ed systems. Apple uses lower quality panels (not the backlights) in their screens as well. Plus Apple only offers anti-glare screens on ONE model and they charge more PLUS the screen is lower spec'ed than the mirror (glossy) screen.

Your own argument kills itself. Apple's systems are far less featured than their PC counterparts, and they're built by the same Chinese manufacturers using the same internal components. Unlike BMW and Mercedes, which ARE built to higher standards and include far more features than their cheaper counterparts. Apple is the only company in the computer industry that currently charges more for less. Even Sony's systems are reasonably priced now.
post #312 of 506
I would like cheaper everything but given that Apple just had its second biggest quarter ever, in the middle of a recession, and looking at their stock price, no debt etc. they really don't have a reason to change.

Windows 7 is not even close to OS X.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junkie View Post

Agreed. Macs win for fit and finish and slim design but in general I agree with you. Apple should simple lower their prices. Take $300 off and they are competitive again. People will pay a premium for OSX and for a quality machine - its just that the differential is too high right now, in my opinion.

I also agree that Windows 7 will offer more parity with OSX than we've seen for a while. Yes, we have heard the same story before but from many sources its evident that MSFT has gotten its house in order. I think its stupid to depend on your competition being pathetic.
post #313 of 506
You all seem to be missing the point on Blu-ray. It has nothing to do with what is available. Jobs doesn't want to deal with the licensing issues as he has stated publicly multiple times. He also thinks most people will skip Blu-ray for on demand video. He has also stated that publicly. Lots of other people think the same thing. That seems a little far fetched to me but quality has lost the battle for video before over convenience. Blu-ray will not make a difference on lower res screens and it has not exactly taken off in the marketplace even after HD died.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You are correct. I am wrong. 9.5mm Blu-ray burners are available. They are all listed as being 0.4", or 10mm which is why I didn't see them. They are listed at over $1k on Google Shopping with some used ones on eBay for around $650. That isn't exactly an Apple solution there. Also, when was the last time Apple had tray loading drives in their consumer products, especially their laptops? Don't forget, when Apple released the MBP with a single layer burner and slower speeds when the previous model MBP had a double layer burner and faster speeds. They didn't change the case to accommodate the optical drive, they changed the optical drive to accommodate the case. This will be no different. Apple is not going to add a tray loader just to appease a few people who don't want to use a cheaper external solution.


Sure there is. The basic answer is that they choose not to, but I suspect that it's a two front offensive. They are moving to push the weak tech that is optical media out of their notebooks. It takes up a lot of space, it's slow, it sues a lot of power, write errors are common, and it don't hold much data for the cost. The other reason is to combat Blu-ray movies with their "good enough" digital solution for watching movies on your computer, though they will eventually have to add HDCP.

PS: These drives seem very new. We know Apple needs time to test a product. Were these drives available when the Mac notebooks launched last year? I'm guessing they weren't as I looked for them then. Maybe on a slow week Apple will offer these at BTO, but you know people are going to compare the prices to the large tray loading drives and bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch. So, will Apple have to add the drives now that they are available and in what looks like sufficient quantities or will they power play to get rid of optical media altogether. I vote for the latter.
post #314 of 506
You have really low expectations and little computer experience if you think Vista works fine with 2 GB. Pinnacle Studio? Video editing for housewives with not nearly the features of iMovie much less FCE or FCP. Its not even thought of highly in the PC World.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Bullcrap.

Unless iMovie has reached the heights of Final Cut Pro... For Pinnacle Studio 12 Plus, you'll have to waste around $60 - 70; at least that is how much I have paid here in NZ (NZ$140).

Vista works fine with 2GB and I was editing my home videos on above mentioned software and aging AMD X2 platform without any problems.
post #315 of 506
Jobs calls Apple TV a hobby and I would say thats about right. The Mini makes far more sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I made a big mistake not buying a Mini instead of ATV. I hate that I can't delete files directly on ATV like you can on a mini. And I have to keep all my movies file on my Mac permanently because if I delete them - the ATV mimics them and they disappear there as well. What a frustrating device. It really is only good if your ionto renting movies only. Even Hulu today got free ABC TV.
post #316 of 506
I don't think either Apple or Microsoft's commercials are very effective. Microsoft has no idea who their base is which is why their ads are all over the place and why the first two ad campaigns were pulled after spending millions of dollars on them. Microsoft and Apple have very different attitudes on sales. Microsoft wants volume, Apple wants premium customers who value quality and user experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

I'll say it again like I did with the last PC commercial thread : These commercials are effective! Microsoft knows their base. Period, end of discussion. Isn't there anyone who works in the advertising field in here? You guys are missing the point. It's not wether the PC is better equipped than a mac. It's about sales. Come on!
post #317 of 506
Anyone who understands Windows internals will tell you the cleaning the registry makes no difference other than making people feel better. On the other hand defragging does. Windows is one of the few "modern" OS' that does not automatically defrag by putting files in the right place when they are used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavydevelopment View Post

LOL and my Linux machine runs even faster with a smaller footprint. So?

Yes there are plenty of PC smarties out there. But you have to admit that over time, without maintenance, a Windows OS will degrade in performance to the point of painfulness. It is the nature of the beast. You have to clean the registry periodically--which there is software that you can buy (more $$$) to do it--otherwise it is a painstaking and potentially fatal operation. You also have to defrag the hard drive. You can schedule this to run at night, but if something happens while it's defragging (ie power goes out) you potentially could hose your hard drive. There is diskeeper software (which the ms tool that ships with windows is the 'lite' version) that preemptively defrags the system on the fly, but that's $ too ($30 for home to be exact). Of course the best remedy is to periodically 'wipe' the system and start over. How long does that take every 6 mos to a year?

For the record, I'm not so much a Mac Fanboi as I am a Windows Hater. Why? Windows could have been so, so, so much better, but MS decided to paint themselves into a corner following the architecture path they did. Vista is the grand result of following that path. It's 100% bloatware. Now MS is backtracking and figured out how to trim some of the fat off the Vista pig. With Windows 7 the pig may be skinnier and it may have some fine lipstick--but its still a pig.
post #318 of 506
I am quite familiar with HP's corporate support as I have purchased many millions of dollars in HP servers. That is not the same thing at all as their consumer support.

Duh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

They're both really solid companies, both in terms of hardware and customer service.

I've dealt with HP's customer service many times regarding our Indigo at work (HP bought Indigo, and inherited all the pain that comes with them). The service has always been top notch.
post #319 of 506
You are mistaken. Apple boards are designed by Apple in conjunction with Intel. Apple used to design their boards in conjunction with IBM. Foxconn manufacture lots of things for lots of companies but just because the make boards for Apple and others doesn't mean they are the same boards. Is that really so hard to grasp? They do not use all the same chipsets as cheapo PC's. You just don't know what you are talking about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

If I'm not mistaken, Apple has a factory over seas make their boards... the same company that makes PC laptop boards (my original MBP had a Foxconn board). The chipsets are the same, the graphics cards are the same (mind you, there are two in this particular model, though any PC maker could do the same thing) processors are the same. Apple uses the same Hard Drives as other folks, the same RAM, the same Realtek compatible audio cards. Its the same... what more do I need to prove? Open up an Apple, and open up a PC, and take a look at the manufacturers of the chips inside. Tons of similarities. The differences are the EFI, and the OS. That's it. They take parts from other vendors and put them in their boxes, just like other computer companies, and its the same components!

Any one else want to back me up here? iStink, usually you have something to say.
post #320 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by snookie View Post

You all seem to be missing the point on Blu-ray. It has nothing to do with what is available. Jobs doesn't want to deal with the licensing issues as he has stated publicly multiple times.

To say that it has nothing to do with the high component cost is a fat fetched. To say that the simple answer that was given after the "bag of hurt" statement is the only reason for Apple's reluctance is also far fetched. The fact is that the component wasn't available not to long ago for Apple's thin notebooks and it is still very expensive. It also affects Apple's digital DL maneuver. Licensing is an issue, but to say the other two is just bad form. They gave the answer that best points to it being someone else's fault and people bought it. Rarely are things in life so simple as to only having one reason.
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