Microsoft ups cash limit, takes aim at MacBook Pros in new ad - Page 9

That is not true in the least bit. You can shave a lot of startup time off many a system and keep the processes and RAM use low by cleaning out unneeded apps from HKEY_*\\SOFTWARE\\Microsoft\\Windows\\CurrentVersi on\\Run*. Who really needs Adobe and Quicktime running in the background at startup?

Hey, it happens. Don't forget that Asus manufactured the iBooks.

Apple also swapped out 2 of my plastic MacBooks due to build quality failures before switching me to the unibody MacBook.


Apple controls the prices of Macs. You're extremely unlikely to find a current generation Mac being sold for more than $50 less than MSRP.


Better quality? Yeah, thats why the plastic MacBooks were known for build quality failures. The previous generation MBPs were known for denting, scratching, and warping due to heat.

Better support? Hmm. If something goes wrong with my Mac at this very moment I'm typing this, I can't call Apple. AppleCare is closed! I have to wait until Monday to set up a shipment. But before they do that, since I'm passed the 90 day support period, I have to provide a credit card which they'll auto-charge $60 and then refund if my problem is determined to be hardware.

OS X? Thats a down point for me. Leopard is not as good as Windows.


Interesting how you missed the part of my post where I said I like Vista over Leopard and Tiger.

Oh and about 10x as many people are using Vista as there are Mac users total


Would you like a picture? How about a scan of the receipt?


I hate touch pads. All of them. Multi-touch is a gimmick. Ooooh I can zoom in and out in Preview and flip pictures in iPhoto. I don't use Safari and I alt-tab/command-tab through windows because its faster than Expose, so its basically useless to me. Oh and Windows setup of zooming in and out of pictures in the preview app is better. Use the scroll wheel/bar/whatever to zoom in and out. Much faster than pinching or unpinching and doesn't require multiple attempts to get what you want.


Actually, you'd have to buy the mini DisplayPort to HDMI adapter and then the HDMI cable. So you'd still need 2 cables. Plus the mini DisplayPort on Macs isn't capable of passing audio, so you'd still need an audio cable. On top of that, if you're running blu-ray (not possible in OS X but is in Windows), since you're stuck with optical audio, you can't pass the higher quality higher resolution formats, like Dolby TrueHD, DTS Master HD, or 8 channel uncompressed LPCM.

And who uses HDMI? Everyone. Starting in 2006, HDMI started to become a standard. By the end of 2007, it was difficult to find a notebook without HDMI out. Now its near impossible unless you look at Netbooks.

Every respectable LCD display out there has had HDMI for several years now. GPU manufacturers have been dropping DVI to HDMI adapters in boxes for just as long, plus many GPUs ship with HDMI as standard, as well as the ability to pass the higher resolution audio formats and 8 channel uncompressed LPCM.


Because you know what I said is true. Show me a Mac with HDMI, card readers built-in, quad-core CPUs in notebooks, better than low mid-range GPUs, blu-ray, etc.


They don't? Hmm. My UniBody MacBook has an LG screen, LG optical drive, Intel processor, nvidia chipset and GPU, some "Apple" branded RAM that is usually Samsung RAM rebranded, and a Hitachi HDD. My friend's MacBook Pro has an Intel processor, LG screen, LG optical drive, Intel chipset, nvidia GPU, Samsung RAM, you get the idea. My HP has an LG optical drive, LG screen, Intel processor, Intel chipset, nvidia GPU, Hitachi HDD, you get the idea The Dell Studio XPS 13 ships with an Intel processor, nvidia chipset + GPU, RAM from Samsung or other manufacturers, LG screens (or those from the same manufacturers Apple chooses), Hitachi, Seagate, etc HDDs, etc. You get the idea.

Apple's components are EXACTLY the same as PCs. The only difference is the casing, which is aluminum or a very low quality plastic.


Again, would you like to see my receipt? How about the receipt on the system in a picture?

I could have gotten the MacBook Pro the day I made the original purchase. Even though I was a blind Apple fanboy at that point, I wasn't that stupid.


Are you serious? Do some googling. Despite the bad economy, Blu-ray's market share is DOUBLE what DVDs market share was at the same point in its life. When DVD was 2.5 years old, it had 4% market share. Blu-ray is currently at 8%. Blu-ray's market share doubled in 2008. The format IS taking off.

Blu-rays quality can't be seen on smaller screens? That too, is an outrageous statement that couldn't be any more wrong. To put it simply, even 720p screen is still pushing nearly 1,000,000 pixels. Standard definition DVD has a resolution 345,600. So even at 720p, blu-ray is pushing 2.6x the resolution of DVD. You also have to consider the fact that H.264 and VC-1 blu-ray discs are running at bitrate of anywhere from 20Mbps to 45Mbps. DVDs tend to run around 4.5Mbps encoded using MPEG-2. Even the old blu-ray MPEG-2 discs have a bitrate of around 20Mbps.

So, you're just flat out wrong in this case. Even on the small 720p screens, blu-ray will push that display to its full potential while DVD has to be upscaled over 2.5 times to reach native resolution.

And video on demand? Nah. Cable and satellite video services do reasonably well. But theres far too many problems with downloadable movies for them to ever challenge blu-ray.

One being is that the standard definition movies aren't even DVD quality. Sure they have the same resolution, but theres no hardware upscaling for the video codecs they use. So on high def displays, the video gets stretched and pixelized. Very few of them offer 5.1 surround sound as well. And those few that do have a lower bitrate Dolby Digital track than the DVD. Then theres the 720p "HD" version that Apple/iTunes and others try to pass off as HD. Those are all encoded at about 4.5Mbps. Excuse me? 4.5Mbps for 720p video? iTunes HD videos have so much compression artifacting that they don't even beat a good upscaled DVD. Sure they have more native pixels, but the compression artifacts are worse than cable. And, again, the issue of hardware upscaling. There is none. So on a 1080p display, you have to double the resolution in software which results in the image just being blown up and those compression artifacts being exaggerated. Not to mention the fact that iTunes HD movie purchases cost just as much as or sometimes more than the blu-ray disc.

And whats this about convenience? iTunes "HD" movies come in at around 4.5GB on average. I have a 10Mbps connection. Most people have less than half of that. If I want to download an iTunes HD movie, its going to take me more than an hour, assuming their servers feed me the movie at full speed. I can drive to the video store and get the blu-ray disc and be back before the movies even 10% downloaded. That leads me to the next problem with "On Demand" services like iTunes.

The DRM. If I buy an HD movie from iTunes, I can ONLY watch it on my computer or on an Apple TV. The SD version it comes with will play on my iPod and iPhone. If I want to play the HD movie on a display other than the built-in display on my MacBook, I need an entirely new cable set up to be HDCP compliant, since the MDP to HDMI cable didn't exist when I got my adapter and I didn't want to spend $50 on a MDP to DVI adapter plus DVI to HDMI setup.

WIth blu-ray and a PC, all it takes is one cable, no adapters and you're all set and compliant.

And what if I rent the SD version? It'll play on my Mac, PC, iPhone, or an Apple TV is I had one. Oh but guess what? It won't play on my 80GB 5.5G iPod that is newer than blu-ray and cost nearly twice as much as my Profile 2.0 blu-ray player did. Why won't it play movie rentals? Because that would be a "new feature" and Apple claims that SOX tells them they can't add "new features" without charging, which is complete and utter BS.

So again, the DRM. I have to have specific adapters and cables to play the HD movies, spend hours downloading, and spend MORE money renting or buying them than I would on blu-ray discs. On top of that, SD movies aren't guaranteed to play on all of my hardware, despite the fact that one of my pieces of hardware is not even 2 years old and cost more than my blu-ray player did.

Let's look at what else Apple did as far as DRM goes. Starting in 2007 with the iPhone, iPod classic, iPod nano 3G, and iPod touch, Apple locked out all 3rd party video accessories that don't include an Apple authentication chip. So on top of all of the other nonsense I mentioned, your movies aren't guaranteed to always be playable because Apple might decide to switch standards again and lock out everything you own forcing you to either give up everything or buy all new hardware again.


No, they don't. Apple uses the same nvidia chipset that Dell, HP, and others use. It's also the same chipset found in many desktop motherboards and upcoming "Ion" based netbooks. Theres absolutely NOTHING special about a Mac motherboard.

Before the 9400M, Apple used Intel Santa Rosa and Napa chipsets, the same exact chipsets you'd find in every other Intel based notebook PC.

Chipset ≠ Motherboard

Apple uses parts from other OEMs, like GPU and CPU and then assembles a custom board to fit their specific needs. Other PC vendors do this too, but not to the extreme that Apple does with all their PCs. Also, Apple never actually used Santa Rosa because they used their own wireless modules, not Intel's.

Based on consumer reports and reviews, Macs are built to higher standards, have the better HW/SW integration, uses higher quality aluminum enclosure, and Apple provide the best customer support in the computer industry. This is not what I think, this is what many reviews said. Furthermore, MacBook and MacBook Pros are rated at number 1 by Consumers Report.


You are kidding right?! Plastic better that Aluminum?! Maybe they should start making airplanes out of plastic then.

Currently, Apple have only one plastic enclosure notebook (the $999 MB) and Mac Mini for desktop. Everything else is Aluminum.

Anyway, it is true that Apple uses same parts for some internal components. But you and me know that it is more about how these components are integrated with the OS and each other.

Who do you think build BMW and Benz electrical components, sound systems, and other "features" hardware? Just like computers, car makers contracts third party to manufacture many of their car parts.


Throwing in features just to make the spec sheet longer is not alway good idea. Personally, I prefer Apple approach when it comes to the video ports (one port and you choose your adapter). I really don't want to have 3 video ports on my notebook just to use one them. I prefer to pay $200 for dedicated BR player instead of paying $400+ for a BRD.

On performance note, two years back PC World tested MBP and rated it as the fastest Windows Vista notebook!!


You are contradicting yourself by admitting that there are premium brands for cars but refuse to acknowledge that there are also premium brands in computers because they all use the same internal components, which is not 100% true. Apple is a premium computer brand. They do offer quality software, excellent HW integration, and excellent service. If this is not the definition of higher standard then I really would like you to tell us what is!

Hey Snookie... ya beat me to it, and I agree with your comment completely, other than mcnairmedia(.com) being a troll. He seriously believes he's a "pro". I have to deal with these types of "pros" daily in the design biz.

Actually good design has nothing to do with the platform (tools) of choice... I also used a Win system in the late 90's. However, the Apple-aesthetic and design-style does seem to permeate into a designer's projects, and to be at a much higher quality-level than the majority of those that go the "Sheila" route.

I know that sounds snobbish... but... what can I say? The truth is all over the net. Look at a "Made for Mac" site, and then a PC site. Even when I was using a PC, I always kept up to date on the Mac side, just to be aware of pleasing design and future trends. OK. Adobe is multi-platform, and is pretty much on the ball design-wise too. But still.... Anybody with me on this?

PS: to mcnairmedia: please... do something about that Gawd-awful website for your own sake. Maybe then someone might request a demo-reel, and you'll have something to do other than making yourself look foolish on a Mac forum. I don't even want to imagine what that "pro" demo-DVD looks like. (where's the "shudder & gag" emoticon?)

just for clarity..are you saying that McDonalds could start serving michelin star food..?

am i a fan boy ??? huh ?
well maybe yes
lol
i love apple
but i am not stupid
there machines do break or do fail
my hd went on my 13 in black MB
that exact day samsung came out w/ the 500 g drive that fits into MB 13IN
how cool is that
i now have a 500 g drive
yet some how i felt a twinge of guilt about doing it myself . and not getting a 120 g from apple
yet i do pine for a alum mac w/ there new grapic card

dunno maybe sometimes when you look at the fucked window world . and then you compare it to the apple world you become a zealot maybe
maybe i have become too over board
i have gottan so much good from apple like the ipod or itunes or iphoto ......

hey cam 27 i wish i could build a great gaming machine .hmmm
peace

Why is it so difficult to understand that it is not about simplistic counting of this sort and quite frankly if it only costs me $700 extra never to have to use windows or a pc again then I call that a small price to pay. They may use the same internals but it is how they are put together that matters. Grow up there is more to buying a computer than the price.

Problem is, every time a new version of Windows is launched, someone says finally, this is the version of Windows that's better than the Mac. I remember people saying this about Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Vista ... it loses credibility after a while.

Apple charges extra for one thing. Integrated hardware and software design. Any other benefits are a bonus (the user interface advantages have been whittled away not so much by MS catching up but by Apple not being as good as they used to be at human interface design). Buy a Windows box or install Linux, and you are rely much more than a Mac user on luck that all the parts will work together.

Yeah, see, if you just wait for the "next" version of Windows, Microsoft will finally get it right. What's that? You just finished waiting 6+ years for the chrome-plated turd they call "Vista?" And, they promised you the same things with Windows 98, Me, XP, etc., too? No, really, this time they mean it: just wait for the "next" version of Windows, and Microsoft will finally get it right. It'll be amazing, we're sure. Don't be so impatient. Sheesh, you act like your time is so damn important. Relax.

The justification is quality development, the macs are worth the price. A computer may be cheap to build if you mass-produce it on a scale big enough. But the development cannot be stressed and "mass-produced" and still keep quality. MS is the perfect example of this.

So what do you think is in the bag? some kind of Anti-Virus ? Spyware protection? Whatever it is, I'm sure it boosted the price above $2,000

ugh these ads just make me sick with how misinforming they are, i feel like there's a lot microsoft could legitimately say about apple's value that actually makes sense, but instead they choose to just make the stupidest points. i feel like i'd get a more authentic ad watching a ShamWoW commercial.

like the ad with the mom and the kid where the only thing the kid says about the mac is that it's "too small" and they want something bigger. um HELLO, it's a notebook computer you WANT it to be small!!

and not buying a computer for not having enough RAM is a rookie mistake. you can upgrade that yourself with no real computer knowledge for under $50.

Adobe CS4 Prod Prem retails for $1700 Mac or PC

Finalcut Studio+Photoshop CS3 Extended + Illustrator is $1300 +$700 + $600 = $2600**

**I assume that Motion is a suitable substitute for After Effects, I am not a video guy so I havn't any idea, and I didnt want to seem to be inflating the Apple price unnecessarily.

And as much flack as Dell gets, They do a much better job on extended warenties and service agreements than APPLE...With a $300 addon to most laptops, they cover everything, even accidental, for 3-4 years, they send a tech to you within 1 business day, so the PC never leaves your posession and you have less down time, there is no option at any price to have onsite service with Apple (don't) Care

Who cares.

It's still a Dell . . . that runs Windows.

After many years of struggling with Windows systems I made the switch to my "over priced iMac" and I must say that I could NOT be more happy with my decision. I absolutely HATE the NTFS file system and they crappy way that installed programs seem to store their files in seemingly hundreds of directories all over the HDD. OS X may not be perfect but at least when I am tired of a program and delete it I feel confident that it's actually deleted and doesn't leave unnecessary files all over the place.

As for the hardware such as card readers and such, I don't need that crap. If want to transfer my pics from the camera to computer I simply plug it in via USB, it just works..... On a PC you could do that too after fighting with the OS to install drivers. Plug-n-pray, gotta love it. Good work M$

I'm anxiously waiting for Snow Leopard and I have no reservations about plunking down my hard earned cash for it. I expect Snow Leopard will be in the $130 price range which is less than half what M$ will ask for it's top version of Windows 7. One version of Snow Leopard for everyone gets you ALL features. I've lost count of the expected number of versions that M$ will have when "lucky #7" version of Windows is available. I think it's just plain tacky to suck people in with a cheap version of windows and then hold them hostage for more money to get features that you really want in the OS.

What you are buying is an insurance policy which I think is administered by a 3rd party company, not Dell. It's like buying insurance on your cell phone. If you shop around you can find the same insurance for an Apple MacBook too

Oh yeah and lets not forget about that incredible phone support you get from someone in india who can't speak english and calls himself "Robert" just so you can pronounce his name. I prefer to have someone on the line who speaks english, understands how to diagnose a problem WITHOUT reading from a script. Dell lost me many years ago with their foolish outsourced phone support.

Apple has Indian tech support, too, for their Macs. Though I am pretty sure that their iPhone support is in the US. I don't recall needing to call for their other products.

Well the last few times I called them I got someone who speaks english with NO accent. Read this Business week article on the subject. You may get support from another country but it wont be India.... http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...5/b3989058.htm

I do know that she had an Indian accent, but perhaps she was an American with an Indian accent.

the couple of times I called Apple tech support it was North American - either Canada or US.

I recently saw a interview of BIll Gates on youtube i think it was a BBC interview
Gates said windows has 10 times more software than on any other platform. But when go on to apple.com/downloads i find myself just going through pages of apps looking for ones to try, i like it i keep it i don't i delete it. and i only download the free ones, and still i have enough selection for hours of application fun. Now idk can i do this on my windows machine without restarting it hundreds of times after each install and than i have to remove these apps if i don't like them, its just not the same windows will slow down if i do this monthly ritual on it. And truthfully idk if i will find any apps that i want to use.

Here this film maker is looking to purchase a machine, we are thinking for film editing and production.
Now i do not know about the software on windows that can suffice her needs as a film editor,
but being a observant person I can say this, I have been through the american school system and the Macs where always used for the creative productions such as film and sound and other editing,
same now I am in a engineering school ( NYU Poly) and this school is hardcore windows, but my department is Digital Media and the only machines we have are Macs, all the software we have in the sound studio, to the film editing studio and the other rooms are on macs, our professors sometimes simply say, this application is only on the mac or the versions of it i will demonstrate is on the mac and the windows versions is limited or something like that, and the students without macs are left there bitting their nails,

This ad is truly barking at the wrong tree, if there is one thing that Apple is the standard than film editing is it. and if there is one thing that apple is rich in applications its this. Film editing is a profession you are buying a platform for your tools, the specifications and so on of the machine are only there for the tools to work properly. and if the tools are on a Apple than thats what you buy.

In this case its not about the machine its about the tools and the machines ability to run them.

I'm sure there is more SW for Windows than any other platform. For starters, they've been using the Windows name for every consumer, server and mobile software since 1995. But the problem is how do you quantify that. You could add up the size of every Windows OS and every Windows app to get a number. Or you could just take differencing code. Or you could add up just the app sizes or the number of apps total. Without any qualifiers it's just an empty statement that can be proven neither true nor false.

Anecdotally speaking, I find that Mac OS X has more built-in apps that I use than that Windows does. They tend to be easier to use due to a better I and more modern code. I also find that I find more quality free apps for Mac OS X, with many from ports from Linux or Unix, than I do for Windows.

Regardless if Windows has more apps, even 100x more by any measure, the issue that a Mac user or potential Mac user has to concern themselves with is, "are the apps that I need available for Mac OS X, offered at a price-point that I find acceptable and of high-enough quality to warrant my use." I find this more so with Mac OS X than with Windows so I don't mind if a Windows geek wins a pointless pissing contest about the number of apps they have available.

i am confused are you saying i am the windows geek, or is gates the windows geek?

I guess it would be Gates, but I wasn't thinking of anyone in particular when I made that comment. Certainly not you as you were just relaying what you heard. It was just a general comment about pointless claims.

Apple does use outsourced support, but, I believe it is for their consumer products only, like iPods and Apple TV. Their computer and software support is done in the U.S.

Good for Sheila, she bought what she needs. Which isn't much! Now if Fry's has a roll of bathroom tissue aka toilet paper she can have it gift wrapped.

So now, they are not just 'not cool enough' but too intelligent? How can anybody be too intelligent? Having said that, I'm not a PC and I'm not a Mac. I'm not a computer at all.

You also question:


I don't know what you are talking about, but it sounds excessively large and hideous-looking.


And as you said it, that is the truth. Windows Vista is the best. Have you got it running and downgraded yet?


I don't need either. Blu-Ray is just a bag of hurt; I have MiniDisplay Port vs. MiniDV, it does the job pretty well; I have a 5$ card reader that I only used twice and I am sorry, but I have no fingers. I am writing this on my unibody MacBook with voice recognition.

All right, I can reveal... I AM a computer... But I am your father!

Just a final point... horse manure is popular with flies, but that doesn't make it good.

Perhaps this was overlooked because, unless you've got your retirement invested in M$FT, that's hard to believe. Only a masochist truly likes Windows. And I say that as someone who endures the additional pain of Linux just to avoid paying real money for the utter trash that is Windows. I'm not sure why you mention the 3+ year old Tiger, unless you've never really used Leopard.


Why do you detract from your other arguments by supplementing them with completely ridiculous statements? That's neither true in the U.S.A. nor true world-wide. In the U.S.A., Vista users number a little more than all Mac users combined. The Vista stats get a little murky because of all the people who were coerced to buy Vista and chose to downgrade to XP or upgrade to Linux. You might also note that you can't buy XP anymore at major retailers. That's not because Vista is any good, but because M$FT keeps such tight control over the sales.

Windows 7. Mac OS X. We're still 3 better.

Who needs imovie? Doesn't vista come with windows movie maker? she can use that. rofl

seems if you want industry standard video editing...for the lowest price

get a mac

the guy who made the MS ad has TWO macs on his desk...
twice as good
LOL



http://www.ihaveanidea.org/articles/...tMeO12180B.JPG

Usually between 3.1 to 3.5GB. Much as I've heard.

But I believe most (if not all) notebooks preconfigured with 4GB of RAM or more will come with Vista 64 nowadays.

RAM speed wise, difference between DDR2 and DDR3 is very small for Core 2 Duo and AMD dual and quad cores - even latest Phenom II. Particularly lowest speed DDR3, which Apple is using in their systems (to my knowledge).

Intel i7 architecture seem to be the only one so far that makes sense of utilizing DDR3.

Well... if she needs anything stronger than home-use grade software (which I believe iMovie is?), shel'll have to purchase Final Cut, Premiere... whatever... for any of those 2 systems.

It's about 750MB used by the system but if you have a GPU, say 1024MB, then the memory addressing from that needs to be taken off as well. They might be using 64-bit now, but I know it wasn't too long ago that they were putting 4GB into systems with a 32-bit OS as default.

Power consumption seems to be a better reason for going DDR3 over DDR2. I'll take any savings I can get with my notebook.

Pinnacle Studio 12, depending on flavour, should be between $50 (basic version) and $120 (Ultimate version) for retail boxes - if you had any previous Studio, upgrades are cheaper.

You can get more basic, cheaper solutions, as well as more expensive ones. Heck, some DVD burners used to come bundled with Ulead Studio or whatever Cyberlink had in SOHO video editing.

I've never been using iMovies, so no idea how they compare; they are all in the same category, though.

So I asked my grandma and her senior friends what they think of Apple, and some of them said they like red ones, some were more into green ones, but some decided they'd definitely go for oranges.

Which tells nothing. Just like your post.

While PC is missing iMovie, you can still get:

CyberLink PowerDirector
Corel VideoStudio
Adobe Premiere Elements
Sony Vegas Movie Studio
Pinnacle Studio
...

On higher end, you have:

Adobe Premiere Pro
Avid
Sony Vegas Pro
...

And that is much I can pull out of my head - though I'm not much into video editing and am not following that market segment much.

Well... if you consider market shares, it seems a lot of people actually end up buying a PC