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Microsoft ups cash limit, takes aim at MacBook Pros in new ad - Page 12

post #441 of 506
Very naiice. Are you in Malaysia? That image has the watermark "PC Modding Malaysia". Ironically I am in Malaysia and looking for a decent PC case last month I didn't see that Silverstone anywhere. Only ugly Cooler Masters. Gigabyte has a few nice ones but nothing I was willing to spend on.

I do have a Silverstone PSU now though. Holding up alright.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

I love the case I chose for my build:

Isn't that sexy?
post #442 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Sheila ultimately settles on a version of HP's 16-inch HP HDX 16t, which includes 4GB of slower DDR2 memory, a 2.13GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, a NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT with 512MB of video memory, and a display with a maximum resolution of 1366x768, compared to the MacBook Pro's 1440x900 max resolution.


settles is right.

for the price she could have had better resolution, a faster processor, TWO video cards etc. and preinstalled video editing software. with a DVD mapping program as well.

5 will get you ten that any comparable video/dvd software for the HP will put the total cost at the same thing she'd have paid if she walked into an Apple store and got the 15" with a fresh out of the box RAM upgrade to 4gb of ddr3 (which is like $150)

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #443 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosx View Post

Actually, you'd have to buy the mini DisplayPort to HDMI adapter and then the HDMI cable. So you'd still need 2 cables. Plus the mini DisplayPort on Macs isn't capable of passing audio, so you'd still need an audio cable. On top of that, if you're running blu-ray (not possible in OS X but is in Windows), since you're stuck with optical audio, you can't pass the higher quality higher resolution formats, like Dolby TrueHD, DTS Master HD, or 8 channel uncompressed LPCM.

And who uses HDMI? Everyone. Starting in 2006, HDMI started to become a standard. By the end of 2007, it was difficult to find a notebook without HDMI out. Now its near impossible unless you look at Netbooks.

Every respectable LCD display out there has had HDMI for several years now. GPU manufacturers have been dropping DVI to HDMI adapters in boxes for just as long, plus many GPUs ship with HDMI as standard, as well as the ability to pass the higher resolution audio formats and 8 channel uncompressed LPCM.

Because you know what I said is true. Show me a Mac with HDMI, card readers built-in, quad-core CPUs in notebooks, better than low mid-range GPUs, blu-ray, etc.



They don't? Hmm. My UniBody MacBook has an LG screen, LG optical drive, Intel processor, nvidia chipset and GPU, some "Apple" branded RAM that is usually Samsung RAM rebranded, and a Hitachi HDD. My friend's MacBook Pro has an Intel processor, LG screen, LG optical drive, Intel chipset, nvidia GPU, Samsung RAM, you get the idea. My HP has an LG optical drive, LG screen, Intel processor, Intel chipset, nvidia GPU, Hitachi HDD, you get the idea The Dell Studio XPS 13 ships with an Intel processor, nvidia chipset + GPU, RAM from Samsung or other manufacturers, LG screens (or those from the same manufacturers Apple chooses), Hitachi, Seagate, etc HDDs, etc. You get the idea.

Apple's components are EXACTLY the same as PCs. The only difference is the casing, which is aluminum or a very low quality plastic.

Are you serious? Do some googling. Despite the bad economy, Blu-ray's market share is DOUBLE what DVDs market share was at the same point in its life. When DVD was 2.5 years old, it had 4% market share. Blu-ray is currently at 8%. Blu-ray's market share doubled in 2008. The format IS taking off.

Blu-rays quality can't be seen on smaller screens? That too, is an outrageous statement that couldn't be any more wrong. To put it simply, even 720p screen is still pushing nearly 1,000,000 pixels. Standard definition DVD has a resolution 345,600. So even at 720p, blu-ray is pushing 2.6x the resolution of DVD. You also have to consider the fact that H.264 and VC-1 blu-ray discs are running at bitrate of anywhere from 20Mbps to 45Mbps. DVDs tend to run around 4.5Mbps encoded using MPEG-2. Even the old blu-ray MPEG-2 discs have a bitrate of around 20Mbps.

So, you're just flat out wrong in this case. Even on the small 720p screens, blu-ray will push that display to its full potential while DVD has to be upscaled over 2.5 times to reach native resolution.

And video on demand? Nah. Cable and satellite video services do reasonably well. But theres far too many problems with downloadable movies for them to ever challenge blu-ray.

One being is that the standard definition movies aren't even DVD quality. Sure they have the same resolution, but theres no hardware upscaling for the video codecs they use. So on high def displays, the video gets stretched and pixelized. Very few of them offer 5.1 surround sound as well. And those few that do have a lower bitrate Dolby Digital track than the DVD. Then theres the 720p "HD" version that Apple/iTunes and others try to pass off as HD. Those are all encoded at about 4.5Mbps. Excuse me? 4.5Mbps for 720p video? iTunes HD videos have so much compression artifacting that they don't even beat a good upscaled DVD. Sure they have more native pixels, but the compression artifacts are worse than cable. And, again, the issue of hardware upscaling. There is none. So on a 1080p display, you have to double the resolution in software which results in the image just being blown up and those compression artifacts being exaggerated. Not to mention the fact that iTunes HD movie purchases cost just as much as or sometimes more than the blu-ray disc.

And whats this about convenience? iTunes "HD" movies come in at around 4.5GB on average. I have a 10Mbps connection. Most people have less than half of that. If I want to download an iTunes HD movie, its going to take me more than an hour, assuming their servers feed me the movie at full speed. I can drive to the video store and get the blu-ray disc and be back before the movies even 10% downloaded. That leads me to the next problem with "On Demand" services like iTunes.

The DRM. If I buy an HD movie from iTunes, I can ONLY watch it on my computer or on an Apple TV. The SD version it comes with will play on my iPod and iPhone. If I want to play the HD movie on a display other than the built-in display on my MacBook, I need an entirely new cable set up to be HDCP compliant, since the MDP to HDMI cable didn't exist when I got my adapter and I didn't want to spend $50 on a MDP to DVI adapter plus DVI to HDMI setup.

WIth blu-ray and a PC, all it takes is one cable, no adapters and you're all set and compliant.

And what if I rent the SD version? It'll play on my Mac, PC, iPhone, or an Apple TV is I had one. Oh but guess what? It won't play on my 80GB 5.5G iPod that is newer than blu-ray and cost nearly twice as much as my Profile 2.0 blu-ray player did. Why won't it play movie rentals? Because that would be a "new feature" and Apple claims that SOX tells them they can't add "new features" without charging, which is complete and utter BS.

So again, the DRM. I have to have specific adapters and cables to play the HD movies, spend hours downloading, and spend MORE money renting or buying them than I would on blu-ray discs. On top of that, SD movies aren't guaranteed to play on all of my hardware, despite the fact that one of my pieces of hardware is not even 2 years old and cost more than my blu-ray player did.

Let's look at what else Apple did as far as DRM goes. Starting in 2007 with the iPhone, iPod classic, iPod nano 3G, and iPod touch, Apple locked out all 3rd party video accessories that don't include an Apple authentication chip. So on top of all of the other nonsense I mentioned, your movies aren't guaranteed to always be playable because Apple might decide to switch standards again and lock out everything you own forcing you to either give up everything or buy all new hardware again.



No, they don't. Apple uses the same nvidia chipset that Dell, HP, and others use. It's also the same chipset found in many desktop motherboards and upcoming "Ion" based netbooks. Theres absolutely NOTHING special about a Mac motherboard.

Before the 9400M, Apple used Intel Santa Rosa and Napa chipsets, the same exact chipsets you'd find in every other Intel based notebook PC.

One. Of. The. BEST. Posts. Ever.
post #444 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Who cares.

It's still a Dell . . . that runs Windows.

Everyone who choose to use Windows.

Which is, like... 90% of computer users..?
post #445 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It's about 750MB used by the system but if you have a GPU, say 1024MB, then the memory addressing from that needs to be taken off as well. They might be using 64-bit now, but I know it wasn't too long ago that they were putting 4GB into systems with a 32-bit OS as default.

Power consumption seems to be a better reason for going DDR3 over DDR2. I'll take any savings I can get with my notebook.

I agree with you power is important on notebook - specially if you are using it a lot on the go. But:





If that HP is using DDR2-800, it has a bit better idle consumption and a bit worst load consumption. I'd say it doesn't make much difference at the end of the day.

RAM or not, Apple did sorted out their power savings features a bit better than MS. I'm wondering if 7 will be better than Vista; I can't see any other reason to upgrade my notebook's OS...

Graphs are taken from http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mem...play/ddr3.html, by the way. Conclusion of the whole article is not surprising, though it seems some people will refuse to accept it until the judgement day come: True, on the one hand DDR3 SDRAM cannot take the system performance to another level. The tests showed that the newest DDR2 SDRAM can provide the same level of performance as the currently available DDR3 SDRAM. In fact, the results of our benchmarks indicate an approximate parity between systems equipped with DDR2-1066 SDRAM and DDR3-1333 SDRAM etc etc.
post #446 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

RAM or not, Apple did sorted out their power savings features a bit better than MS. I'm wondering if 7 will be better than Vista; I can't see any other reason to upgrade my notebook's OS...

I hope so, I knew Mac OS X was better at power management, but AnandTech's tests of the MacBook Air running OS X and Vista show an excessive lead for Apple's OS. I wished they had tested XP to see how that compares with the others.
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3435&p=13
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #447 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

Obama has a federal broadband intiative. Blue ray looks awesome. The only reason apple doesn't have it is due to apple tv looking very subpar in comparison.

I really hope for you guys in USA that Obama will deliver on his promises.

Here in NZ, uber-speed uncapped unbundled you-name-it Internet is being promised before each elections for the last 8+ years, and nothing significant happened in the mean time. Oh, wait - it did! Local provider, Xtra, gave me last year 40 instead of 30GB a month, and opened my DL speed to full ADSL specs (theoretical 8Mbits/s). Upload is still bellow 1Mbit.

But I always put red mark on calendar for every day I have actually seen DL speeds close to 8Mbits.

What do you think, how many red markers do I have..?
post #448 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaostheory7 View Post

At the end of the commercial she has a Laptop in the box and a carrier bag. What's in the carrier bag? My guess would be:
  • The Virus Software she needs for the PC
  • The £800 video editing software she'll need
  • A manual of Windows Error codes
  • And a large stick to beat some Sanity back into her

And you came up with that all by yourself? Amazing!

(But I'm sure iMovie helped a bit )
post #449 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaostheory7 View Post

That's why we are Mac Users you moron! We've seen how the other side of things works and don't like what we see. I switched 12 years ago and since then have never had to reinstall a system, deal with virus, sort out corrupt drivers or wait 5 minutes before my computer boots up and is ready to use. My wife on the other hand is still a PC user and in the 7 years we have been together we have had 3 PC's all of which have fallen over at least 3 times are year!

The funniest thing about your post is you choose to right an anti-mac comment on a Mac website? What were you doing here in the first place?

Now go back to Scandisking, Defragging and Virus Checking your beloved PC you retard!

Breed. Slowly. Take it in. Let it out.

(I can tell you are already feeling better)

So you switched from Windows 95 SE.


(You do know there were some other versions of Windows in the meantime, don't you? Just checking)


What you are saying, in the nutshell, is that you were not capable to learn how to use your system, and now whole world is guilty for your decision to waste money on imbecile-proof OS.

Pathetic...

(But keep breeding. Slowly...)


When you calm down and recover some manners, maybe we can talk as human beings. Up to you.
post #450 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

every year, switchers and hack builders come to mac, if you mean 100% brain washed, jobs can do no wrong, you are correct, otherwise the mac pro user who in the studio had pcs for prgrams like Higa studio in multi million dollar studios and aforementioned swithchers, you are wrong, they all know about FSB, bios, oveclock, gigabertz whichnmatters again as a2.2 is slower than a 2.8 duo core, psu, and much more. The mac users and I know mac genius ( who are nothing other than procedure dudes that run a cd program to see if there's abproblem and wouldn't know an oso scopenif it hit them in the eye, to the more common and slowly dying, "oh I don't know that, I just use it, followed by sweety and beings guy, well yeah, they are clueless. Andbyour a dying bread. Today new user is a mac pro MacBook air macbook pro user that loves the is and software, the eye candy, hates vista but loves windows 7, but thinks apple is over prices and gets some macs for free, one studio I know received 5 free mac pros and fcp suites, today new users are the ones complaining. The other .01.5 percent non pro, consumer, iPod must have everything jobs is ckuess. Yeah you're right. In fact, google how to overclock a mac and see all the returns you get, all of them will be since intel transition and not rromthe over hyper lied by jobs g4 is faster than athlon crowd.

Of course, there are people who know their stuff. There are people here who know their stuff. I'm here to read what those people have to say... but every now and then, it is so hard to resist an urge to answer one of those other "smart" posts

Because, at the end of a day, there is nothing to reply to reasonable people and their down to earth, balanced posts. I don't have problem with people prefering Mac experience. I don't have a problem with people choosing to pay premium price. I might have a problem, though, with people repeating nonsense in order to justify their personal decision, while thinking they have became smart and knowledgeable because they own one platform or another.

Heck, what can you say to a post that says "Macs are built of noble silicon (and everyone knows that)?
post #451 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

BULLSHIT, everybody uses comoddedy x86 and x64 chips, MS does just as muich tuning on their consumer OS kernal to the INTEL chips as apple does, hell, MS and intel work closly together to make sure that Windows can take advantage of new chip features (like ht back in the day and multithreading across Xeon/Pentium/Core chips starting with Windows XP and expanded with the codebase of Server 2003 whuich was the vista foundation.)

MS has been working with Intel on multithreading and maximising CPU usage since Apple was playing with those dinky G4 peices of shit (I speak as a former G4 owner, they sucked compared to the Intel boxes of the day, which is why Apple switched.)

Its all about the abstraction layers, Apple has Core* and windows has Direct X and Windows Foundation and .net, they tweak their code to work with the HAL, and the GPU drivers for both Mac and Windows are written by the people who designed the chips, at nvidia and AMD, so I would assume that they can tightly integrate the drivers to the hardware, hell they CREATED the hardware.

WHAT???

Linux / mac os x / other unices have a much longer trackrecord of multitreading even before the time of multiprocessor hardware (consumer hw). Im not shore about how much of the libraries have been rewriten for multitreading since XP but it takes a lot of work.... Go look since when have windows taken use of multiple prosessors in reality (real multitreading in applications) its not that many years... When did bsds (incl. os x) and linux? That will give you a hint!

This problem would be even worse if intel had not brought multicore prosessors to us. The problem was minimised down to that one applications/libraries can only use one core but if you use several applications then they use different cores. This is a bit simplified for forum purposes but you get the picture... A lot of applications use windows libraries and it would be intresting to know how much of this is really multitreaded and since when.. Even if the impact isnt that big nowdays with multicore prosessors if you use several applications... Anyways not many applications could really use two prosessors on a windows rig in the biginning of the millenium... but this was only a windows problem...
post #452 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

mac has problems also . i never said they did not.
dude
nothing lasts
but my freind there is a world of difference between alot of the junk made out there .
apple has a very high level of production
higher end dells and others also keep a keen eye .
having stated this .

i will say that many >not all< BUT many p/c compaines work on razor thin margins . there is zippo unique amoung the herd so price becomes almost everything .
the worklers they use are treated like farm field pickers .
the internal parts they use are off the shelf and never ever current parts . re furb parts are also widely used accross the board.

its the lowest common denominator
just like vista windows world panders to the lowest common denominator .

many many mac are still in use today .. they tend to last longer
the apple owners also take better care of there machines . i own 5 mac right now down from 9 .

do you own a mac ??

No I don't.

I was considering white Macbook 6 months ago for my notebook, but choose not to since at the time I didn't know much about Mac and OSX to feel comfortable with purchase. That being said, white Macbook had approximately same price as 13" HP and Toshibas, albeit with a bit smaller HDD and less RAM on average... but still very tempting.

So... I started checking on AI at the time, and continued after I gave up on purchasing Mac. A bit out of habit, a bit out of curiosity. There is always next notebook around the corner, anyway. I'll probably virtualize OSX in the meantime and give it a go; unfortunately I know no one with Mac, and playing with them in a shop simply isn't enough.

I have no problem believing Macs can last, because my experience with PCs is the same (which works well with my beliefs they are built with same parts). Out of 8 functional computers in my house, oldest one is almost 9 years old P3 Toshiba notebook. With 15GB HDD. My wife managed to crack plastic corner of the screen cover by dropping notebook from bed to hard floor, some 5 years ago. It still works with no problems. In all that time, it was re-imaged once - when my wife moved from that machine to her new notebook, 2 and a half years ago. I didn't really have to reinstall it, but wanted to remove all her files and info and re-imaging was easier than search & destroy.

Some other computers are also 4+ years old - Celeron desktop, first-gen AMD 64 desktop, one P4 system.

Would you believe that, in last 9 years of personal computing, I had to replace 1 motherboard (old Transcend Athlon board with VIA chipset) and one no-name power supply. All other bits and pieces (and whole systems) were used much as I wanted to use them, later given to friends with lower computing needs. To my knowledge, I don't know if anything died before new users decided to retire that equipment (or give it someone else and I lost trace). Some really old stuff is thrown away - SD RAM modules, GF 2 MX card... some other stuff that no one would use nowadays.

So you see - it pisses me of a bit (and amuses me a lot) when some greenhorn rushes in and starts delivering all-mighty wisdom about PCs being pile of junk that doesn't work at all, and is only capable of freezing, crashing, dying and loosing their respective owners' important data.

Utter bullshit.

I'm sure everyone can find more PC than Mac users having hardware-related problems, but not many people seem to consider there are at least 10 PC users on every single Mac user. Even with exactly same built quality, simple statistic will give 10x more problems in PC world in general. But per user? I don't think so.
post #453 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraithofwonder View Post

Nothing like this.

Apple deals in a little hyperbole, Microsoft is all bullshit here

Ah, yes. I always remember ad about digital cameras.

Might be hyperbole for you, but for average Joe who believes everything he sees on TV), it is clear message that his new digital camera will not work with PC.

Which is as nonsense-full as nonsenses go

Apple was trying to hide it's bullshit behind (occasionaly successful) humour.

MS has selected their approach as "We're not trying to be smart - we are just telling you the way it is". But they are not always telling everything, now, are they?

Apple was lying unconditionally on many occasions. MS is carefully selecting to present part of truth they consider as their advantage, while being very quiet about parts that don't work for them. But at least, they are not negating those parts - just skipping them.

Additionally, MS is not trying to make fun of Apple - like Apple did with their PC stereotype (and with very little success - PC guy is way more likeable than Mac guy). Believe me, there are stereotypes Mac users could be easily fitted in.

While both approaches are under the belt, I feel Apple's one goes a bit lower.

Just my personal opinion. \
post #454 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraithofwonder View Post

Core 2 Duo is a 64-bit processor. The emphasis is on needing the 64-bit version of Windows over the 32-bit and unlike the beliefs of some on these forums, it is in fact quite common for a machine with 4GB of RAM to be shipped using only a 32-bit version of Windows. (Thus .5GB is not used; leaving the user with 3.5GB that is used by a RAM hungry/inefficient Vista - this is of course assuming the address space isn't used up and the user isn't left with 3GB, or even less)

It isn't just the RAM either, while the HDX 16t does use a 1066FSB, a lot of the others out there don't - in fact, the vast majority don't. They're on slower 800FSBs or less.

*ALL* new MacBooks use 1066FSB or higher, even the white MacBook. Although there is one weakness, the white MacBook still uses DDR2-667 RAM, but *ALL* others use DDR3-1066.

Since we're talking about the "average user", where's mention of iWork and Office? Let's face it - I'm a fan of Office over iWork (blasphemy, I know), but...

The average user doesn't need all of those extras, iWork can use and create Word, Excel and Powerpoint files quite effectively and do all the average user ever needs to do. iWork is an extra $40 with purchase of a new Mac ($79 retail), Office 2007 Home and Student (Word/Excel/Powerpoint) is $149 retail, $119 last I saw added with an HP. No one includes it free. Where's that in these comparisons?

* Side note: Microsoft's "Home and Student" edition of Office 2008 (Mac) has Word, Excel, Powerpoint and Entourage. Microsoft's "Home and Student" edition of Office 2007 (Windows) has Word, Excel and Powerpoint. Anyone find it funny that you get "more" with the Mac version?

Check graphs (and link) I've posted in another post - I think it is somewhere at page 11.

In short, for non i7 platforms, DDR2-800 performs almost exactly the same as DDR3-1066. Which, I believe, is common DDR3 in Macs. It has a bit lower idle power consumption and a bit higher load consumption, but differences are marginal.

Regarding Office for students... I'd lucky guess MS wants Mac people to use their email client over Apple's mail (or whatever the name is), thus Entourage is included. People who get used to Entourage will resist less to work with Outlook - or, even if they have Mac at work, will still go for Entourage out of developed habit/experience/what-ever.

On the other hand, PC users without Outlook will use, well, likely Outlook Express. Nothing to gain there by giving Outlook for the same money - from MS's point of view.

Does that make any sense..? \
post #455 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That ruined my Sunday. I really hate you now!

That is a MBP, but from MS' standpoint they get a lot more money from a retail purchase of Windows for a MBP than an OEM copy pre-installed on other vendor's machines.

Infiltrate.

Resistance is futile.

Yeah, that is one dorky ad...

But MS is software company, and money from Apple users is green as.
post #456 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You keep trying to spin some yarn but you never make a point. Are you saying that Macs were completely different internals when they were PPC? Well, they weren't. The reason Windows didn't install on PPC was because MS choose not to support it. It was a different architecture but all computers use the same basic components: ROM, RAM, CPU, I/O and a mainboard to tie them together. Saying that these are somehow vastly different in what they accomplish is foolish. Linux can run on PPC, x86, ARM and others just fine so by your logic every computer is the same.

Grabbing a few components that are the same or similar to claim that every other part must then be the same is equally as false. You also find the cheapest comparison you can find while ignoring more expensive comparisons as they easily shatter your already weak argument. Why you think that Apple can't make a computer in a way that satisfies certain users' needs and wants is beyond me. Perhaps you need to figure out what is wrong with you for not wanting one company within a free market to be free.

What does PPC has to do with whole topic? I never ever mentioned PPC Macs.

All I'm trying to do is fight myth that nVidia, Intel... HDD manufacturers... have special production lines for components used in Macs. Which is the way I see common opinion here that "Macs are built from higher quality bits and pieces".

My belief is simple. If Mac parts are of higher quality - say, being exposed to burn-in tests, hanpicked from production lines, whatever - I'm sure we will all hear about that from a source. Not because Apple think their buyers require that kind of info, but because that kind of info is great way to justify price tag. "Hey, we use solid capacitors on our notebook motherboards, and we are the only notebook manufacturer who does that. It costs, but benefits are...". Or, say, "Hey, our motherboard had 10 layers for improved data transfer and better heat distribution. Ground layer has 3 ounces of solid copper, which helps distribute heat from hot spots. That cost, but benefits are...". And so on.

I've never seen that. All Apple is saying is about outside. Aluminium case. LED displays. Backlit keyboard.

That is all cool, but they never-ever mention anything about internals. It is even hard to find official info on basic things, like chipsets and so on. Yet I learn here that Macbook motherboard is made of uber-quality noble silicon, because, well - everyone knows that.

I don't think that I have anything to prove because I didn't start anything. I'm just responding to something others have started, and my response is simple - please provide me any details on Mac internals that will prove build superiority theory. I don't have problem accepting that - with some factual details.

And all I keep getting boils down to "everyone knows". Well I don't know. As well as any other non Apple user.

What is your personal opinion on that matter, anyway? I see you like one of more reasonable people around here. Do you think that, say, Mac motherboard build by Foxcon, is really any different from HP motherboard build by Foxcon, with same chipset, same GPU, for same CPU..? And if you do - what do you base your belief on?
post #457 of 506
Why do most if not all PC manufacturers continue to use the antiquated BIOS. At least Apple uses a much newer and dare I say superior EFI. http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Hom...39FBD2A4F.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

What does PPC has to do with whole topic? I never ever mentioned PPC Macs.

All I'm trying to do is fight myth that nVidia, Intel... HDD manufacturers... have special production lines for components used in Macs. Which is the way I see common opinion here that "Macs are built from higher quality bits and pieces".

My belief is simple. If Mac parts are of higher quality - say, being exposed to burn-in tests, hanpicked from production lines, whatever - I'm sure we will all hear about that from a source. Not because Apple think their buyers require that kind of info, but because that kind of info is great way to justify price tag. "Hey, we use solid capacitors on our notebook motherboards, and we are the only notebook manufacturer who does that. It costs, but benefits are...". Or, say, "Hey, our motherboard had 10 layers for improved data transfer and better heat distribution. Ground layer has 3 ounces of solid copper, which helps distribute heat from hot spots. That cost, but benefits are...". And so on.

I've never seen that. All Apple is saying is about outside. Aluminium case. LED displays. Backlit keyboard.

That is all cool, but they never-ever mention anything about internals. It is even hard to find official info on basic things, like chipsets and so on. Yet I learn here that Macbook motherboard is made of uber-quality noble silicon, because, well - everyone knows that.

I don't think that I have anything to prove because I didn't start anything. I'm just responding to something others have started, and my response is simple - please provide me any details on Mac internals that will prove build superiority theory. I don't have problem accepting that - with some factual details.

And all I keep getting boils down to "everyone knows". Well I don't know. As well as any other non Apple user.

What is your personal opinion on that matter, anyway? I see you like one of more reasonable people around here. Do you think that, say, Mac motherboard build by Foxcon, is really any different from HP motherboard build by Foxcon, with same chipset, same GPU, for same CPU..? And if you do - what do you base your belief on?
post #458 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Really? "Much Better" is in the eye of the beholder, and so far consumers are voting with their wallets - and BR isn't exactly on fire.

If you read this biased article:

http://bluray-depot.com/blueray/blu-...occhio-release

and spin the last sentence around, Dark Night is being outsold two to one by regular, plain-ole DVD.

That's something to be proud of for such an obviously superior technology?

I like the promise of BR, and own a BR player. But I despise the implementation and the very real Bag of Hurt that SJ commented on.

Mate.

How many DVD players are out there already, considering technology is out, what? - 10 years? - and how many BR players..? New standard doesn't take over in a blink of an eye.

I am surprised DVDs didn't sell 5-1, or even 10-1.

There was a nice post in this tread - look for it - with info on adoption rate of BR and DVD at the same age. According to that, BR is being adopted twice as fast as DVD was when introduced.

When DVD standard was released, number of VHS tapes - rented and sold - was much bigger than DVDs... until DVD caught up. What does it prove..?
post #459 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

More like 97% worldwide, though HP only has about 25% of that despite their low cost systems.

Well, it is still more than Apples share, right?

Ah, that wasn't even serious post of mine, sol - don't bother. Sometimes I just indulge in answering funny posts. Kind of stress relieve. Or maybe boredom; can't decide
post #460 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I hope so, I knew Mac OS X was better at power management, but AnandTech's tests of the MacBook Air running OS X and Vista show an excessive lead for Apple's OS. I wished they had tested XP to see how that compares with the others.
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3435&p=13

If I recall correctly, Vista actually does better than XP. You can only expect that much from 8 years old OS.

But true, Vista could have - should have got - much more polish than it has. Sometimes, I wonder if MS is not doing things like that on purpose. Give people something to dislike, then come out with "saviour". In the process, people get used to idea of inevitable change.

MS did that with 2000 and XP. First to spearhead NT technology into mainstream, second to make it mainstream. And now, Vista to shift attention from XP (even in a bad way). Then W7 to save people from dreaded Vista.

Still, it is unfair to address Vista as failure - outside of commercial terms. It is better OS than XP. It does require more resources, but not much more - and not considering that XP was written for Pentium 3 generations of hardware. It is fast as on any recent hardware, and much more stable and secure. Drivers have matured nicely. Interface is improved.

But not enough, not after 8 years. It is not that Vista is bad - because it isn't. It is that Vista is not as good as it could have been.

Was MS lazy, or did they expect problems with Vista acceptance and simply didn't bother - or even did that on purpose?

(And are aliens involved..?)
post #461 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

MS has selected their approach as "We're not trying to be smart - we are just telling you the way it is".
But they are not always telling everything, now, are they?

No they are not. And in their latest ad campaign the part that they are not telling you about is, ironically, the only part of a computer that they make... the OS.

Even "the Wow Starts Now" was at least about a Microsoft product.
post #462 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

How many DVD players are out there already, considering technology is out, what? - 10 years? - and how many BR players..? New standard doesn't take over in a blink of an eye.

And it may never.

Quote:
I am surprised DVDs didn't sell 5-1, or even 10-1.

I'm not - now that I have netflix and this thing called the Internet I hardly ever buy DVDs or BR.

Quote:
There was a nice post in this tread - look for it - with info on adoption rate of BR and DVD at the same age. According to that, BR is being adopted twice as fast as DVD was when introduced.

VHS to DVD was a quantum leap. Totally different format (what, you can't record?!?!) and mindset. It took years just to overcome that, but it's happened. BR is just a fancier DVD - and that's how many people view it. If anything, you would think it's adoption rate would be faster.

I think BR has a much tougher fight ahead of it, esp. with things like Hulu, Netflix and heck even Redbox (who doesn't like free movie rentals - Redbox codes are all over the Internet). That and it's inane pricing. Some, all - take your picks which factors are slowing it's adoption, but it's hardly a run away success when if you look at it, it should be since it's concepts are very familiar.

Quote:
When DVD standard was released, number of VHS tapes - rented and sold - was much bigger than DVDs... until DVD caught up. What does it prove..?

There wasn't the Internet nor downloading or streaming video in the VHS to DVD switch.

There is now.

Don't get me wrong, I have a BR player. But if Netflix had upped their charge for BR disks before I bought, I wouldn't bother now. I still may drop BR support from Netflix and I sure as heck am not going to be buying movies at $40 or even $30 a pop.

Sony and the studios are (still) their own worst enemy.
post #463 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

...Sometimes, I wonder if MS is not doing things like that on purpose. Give people something to dislike, then come out with "saviour". In the process, people get used to idea of inevitable change.
....
Was MS lazy, or did they expect problems with Vista acceptance and simply didn't bother - or even did that on purpose?

No need for conspiracy theories - writing good code is hard.

Also, I do applaud MS for "stuffing the genie back in the bottle" with regard to drivers. In the NT 4 time frame they moved allot of stuff from userspace into the Kernel for speed reasons, and ended up seriously compromising the integrity of their OS. The fixed quite a bit of that with Vista, but basically invalidated all their existing drivers in the process. Then they ran behind and didn't exactly give hardware manufacturers the time they were used to for writing new drivers.

Couple that with a new OS with low adoption and high resistance and as a HW manufacturer, how much priority are you going to put on getting that new driver out and then tweaking it once it's released?

So they had quite a bit of momentum to overcome. But they have, Vista in it's current form is actually quite useable but the damage to perception has been done (fair or not). So hence the re-branding to Windows 7 - ditch the vista name, slap on some new UI elements and poof - all better now.

One of the prices they pay for their open architecture. The fact that so many Windows users are oblivious to it for the negative that it is still amuses me. It's not a fatal negative, and Microsoft and the hardware manufactures eventually over came it, but watching people fuss about it is just silly - it is what it is. It was eventually fixed. Just plan accordingly!
post #464 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

No I don't.

I was considering white Macbook 6 months ago for my notebook, but choose not to since at the time I didn't know much about Mac and OSX to feel comfortable with purchase. That being said, white Macbook had approximately same price as 13" HP and Toshibas, albeit with a bit smaller HDD and less RAM on average... but still very tempting.

So... I started checking on AI at the time, and continued after I gave up on purchasing Mac. A bit out of habit, a bit out of curiosity. There is always next notebook around the corner, anyway. I'll probably virtualize OSX in the meantime and give it a go; unfortunately I know no one with Mac, and playing with them in a shop simply isn't enough.

I have no problem believing Macs can last, because my experience with PCs is the same (which works well with my beliefs they are built with same parts). Out of 8 functional computers in my house, oldest one is almost 9 years old P3 Toshiba notebook. With 15GB HDD. My wife managed to crack plastic corner of the screen cover by dropping notebook from bed to hard floor, some 5 years ago. It still works with no problems. In all that time, it was re-imaged once - when my wife moved from that machine to her new notebook, 2 and a half years ago. I didn't really have to reinstall it, but wanted to remove all her files and info and re-imaging was easier than search & destroy.

Some other computers are also 4+ years old - Celeron desktop, first-gen AMD 64 desktop, one P4 system.

Would you believe that, in last 9 years of personal computing, I had to replace 1 motherboard (old Transcend Athlon board with VIA chipset) and one no-name power supply. All other bits and pieces (and whole systems) were used much as I wanted to use them, later given to friends with lower computing needs. To my knowledge, I don't know if anything died before new users decided to retire that equipment (or give it someone else and I lost trace). Some really old stuff is thrown away - SD RAM modules, GF 2 MX card... some other stuff that no one would use nowadays.

So you see - it pisses me of a bit (and amuses me a lot) when some greenhorn rushes in and starts delivering all-mighty wisdom about PCs being pile of junk that doesn't work at all, and is only capable of freezing, crashing, dying and loosing their respective owners' important data.

Utter bullshit.

I'm sure everyone can find more PC than Mac users having hardware-related problems, but not many people seem to consider there are at least 10 PC users on every single Mac user. Even with exactly same built quality, simple statistic will give 10x more problems in PC world in general. But per user? I don't think so.

So you don't own a Mac yet you know all the "problems" of owning one?

Oh brother. What a waste of time you are.
post #465 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

I really hope for you guys in USA that Obama will deliver on his promises.

Here in NZ, uber-speed uncapped unbundled you-name-it Internet is being promised before each elections for the last 8+ years, and nothing significant happened in the mean time. Oh, wait - it did! Local provider, Xtra, gave me last year 40 instead of 30GB a month, and opened my DL speed to full ADSL specs (theoretical 8Mbits/s). Upload is still bellow 1Mbit.

But I always put red mark on calendar for every day I have actually seen DL speeds close to 8Mbits.

What do you think, how many red markers do I have..?

What is New Zeland?
post #466 of 506
Blu Ray is going to lose the format war versus encoded movie. Why bother with discs if you can stuff 100 HD movies in a $100 drive and stream it anywhere in your house with a push of a button?

Never bother with mail-in rentals or going to blockbusters?

Screw blu ray, it will be over soon.
post #467 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Blu Ray is going to lose the format war versus encoded movie. Why bother with discs if you can stuff 100 HD movies in a $100 drive and stream it anywhere in your house with a push of a button?

Never bother with mail-in rentals or going to blockbusters?

Screw blu ray, it will be over soon.



You wouldn't be so bitter and angry if you weren't dumb enough to buy into the dead end HD-DVD format.
post #468 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAPacket View Post



You wouldn't be so bitter and angry if you weren't dumb enough to buy into the dead end HD-DVD format.

I never bought an HDDVD or bluray. Unlike you who wasted $500 to buy a bluray.

I watch HD movies for free on my $300 ATV which BTW also does music, podcasts, pictures, etc, with a push of a button.
post #469 of 506
So...it's just a coincidence you sound like this clown:

Tauron @ Dec 30th 2006 10:44PM
"HD DVD will win the format war. I already pre-ordered an HD-XA2 because I'm that positive about this particular format. I've seen a Blu-ray demonstrated at a local electronics store, and the criticism is accurate. Blu-ray doesn't look much better than an upconverted DVD. An HD broadcast via satellite looks better. I have not seen an HD DVD, but, the vast majority of the consumers are behind it, and they all confer that HD DVD looks better than a Blu-ray. Sorry SONY, but history repeats. (remember Beta?) The only thing is, $999.99 for this player won't help Toshiba. Another reason HD DVD will win this war is Toshiba's prices. All prior models are available for about $500 if you know where to look. But, eventually this model's price will drop too. Just like standard DVD players when they first came out."

post #470 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

So you don't own a Mac yet you know all the "problems" of owning one?

Oh brother. What a waste of time you are.

And yet, there you are replying to me.

Nothing more interesting to do on your Mac..?

But since you've already decided to waste your time, read some of my post(s) again. I'm not writing about problems of owning Mac. I'm writing about problems of purchasing Mac.

Additionaly, I'm writing about "problems" of owning PC, only because I happen to own some, so I think I just might be a bit more knowledgeable about them than an average Mac user - who, for some reason, enjoy discussing Windows on a Mac dedicated site.

Figure that out.
post #471 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

What is New Zeland?

Don't worry about that - I wouldn't expect you to know anyway
post #472 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

No they are not. And in their latest ad campaign the part that they are not telling you about is, ironically, the only part of a computer that they make... the OS.

Even "the Wow Starts Now" was at least about a Microsoft product.

As someone already mentioned, Apple was putting sole emphasis on OS in their ads, completely ignoring hardware (which they are making and selling as well).

It is a nature of every ad campaign to focus on positive points. You don't waste millions of dollars to inform your buyers that your product is not as good as competitor's one.
post #473 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

And it may never.



I'm not - now that I have netflix and this thing called the Internet I hardly ever buy DVDs or BR.



VHS to DVD was a quantum leap. Totally different format (what, you can't record?!?!) and mindset. It took years just to overcome that, but it's happened. BR is just a fancier DVD - and that's how many people view it. If anything, you would think it's adoption rate would be faster.

I think BR has a much tougher fight ahead of it, esp. with things like Hulu, Netflix and heck even Redbox (who doesn't like free movie rentals - Redbox codes are all over the Internet). That and it's inane pricing. Some, all - take your picks which factors are slowing it's adoption, but it's hardly a run away success when if you look at it, it should be since it's concepts are very familiar.



There wasn't the Internet nor downloading or streaming video in the VHS to DVD switch.

There is now.

Don't get me wrong, I have a BR player. But if Netflix had upped their charge for BR disks before I bought, I wouldn't bother now. I still may drop BR support from Netflix and I sure as heck am not going to be buying movies at $40 or even $30 a pop.

Sony and the studios are (still) their own worst enemy.

Yes, there is Internet - but it still is not up there for majority. I don't think it will be there while BR lasts, anyway.

It might be that BR will be the last HD delivery standard before Internet takes over, but I doubt that. People still like to own movies. Collect them. Give them as a present. Get them as a present.
post #474 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

What is New Zeland?

Are you serious or making fun of our sheep-infested-country friend?
post #475 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

As someone already mentioned, Apple was putting sole emphasis on OS in their ads, completely ignoring hardware (which they are making and selling as well).

Actually "Apple's Get a Mac" campaign did not just focus on OS X. There were plenty of ads that covered hardware, applications, services, stores etc.

The fact is that Apple's ads were advertising Apple products and the benefits of Apple products. My point, which you managed to miss, is that Microsoft appears to be advertising other people's products without even mentioning their own.
post #476 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

Actually "Apple's Get a Mac" campaign did not just focus on OS X. There were plenty of ads that covered hardware, applications, services, stores etc.

The fact is that Apple's ads were advertising Apple products and the benefits of Apple products. My point, which you managed to miss, is that Microsoft appears to be advertising other people's products without even mentioning their own.

Can't recall too many hardware related ads - aside those related to peripherals (camera, printer...). But I probably didn't see them all anyway. Will check on Youtube.

Microsoft some 25+ years ago decided to have hardware partners. Apple decided to be their own hardware partner. As I mentioned before, MS realises direct OS compare would not do them much good, so they decided to promote hardware that runs their software.

No, I didn't miss your point; I'm just not finding it strange. As I mentioned, both companies decided to advertise stronger points of their platforms, while ignoring weak points; in MS case, it is variety - and pricing - of hardware that runs their solutions. Other message they are delivering - intentionally or not - might be something in line of "We are not just one company; we are whole front of allies united behind same standards".

I don't see much wrong in that...
post #477 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Can't recall too many hardware related ads - aside those related to peripherals (camera, printer...). But I probably didn't see them all anyway. Will check on Youtube.

Even those ads about the peripherals are really about how the OS can connect to them automatically.

Edit: From 2006, "Out of the Box" is about the simplified HW and SW when you setup and start up for the first time and "Accident" is about the MagSafe connector. Those are the only two I saw from a quick run through of the thumbnails from: http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #478 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Breed. Slowly. Take it in. Let it out.

(I can tell you are already feeling better)

So you switched from Windows 95 SE.


(You do know there were some other versions of Windows in the meantime, don't you? Just checking)


What you are saying, in the nutshell, is that you were not capable to learn how to use your system, and now whole world is guilty for your decision to waste money on imbecile-proof OS.

Pathetic...

(But keep breeding. Slowly...)


When you calm down and recover some manners, maybe we can talk as human beings. Up to you.


@nikon133

Thank you for the reality check. I would love to discuss this as intelligent human beings - unfortunately intelligence seems to be something you are lacking!

I was actually perfectly calm when I wrote that thanks. What's the point of posting 299 on site about Macs when you clearly just like to stir things up.

To answer your questions - yes I am aware of other versions of Windoze (did you actually read my post? Namely my wife uses a PC) I have had the misfortune of using 3.11, 95, 98, 2000, XP and Vista and none of them even compare to OS8 on the Mac!

I am more than capable of learning how to use a computer system along with other thing like how to spell (it's "breathe" not breed - just a heads up! What's the matter Vista not come with a spell checker?) Fingers crossed you never "Breed"! That's all the world needs - spawn of Nikon

Waste Money on the operating system? Last time I checked Leopard (which is a full version of the operating system) was still cheaper than the Home Basic version of Vista? (And at least my operating system works!)

iMovie is a video editing piece of software - so how would it help me compile the list of faults with the advert - typical PC user always looking for a difficult solution to an easy problem! Did you need to edit your registry to get Internet Explorer to work so you could post your messages?

I think you may be on the wrong site my friend - this is Appleinsider.com not ohmygodiamsojadedbyhowcackmywindowscomputerissoine edtorantaboutittomakemyselffeelbetter.com

You were stung as child weren't you or do you just get off on negative attention?

Did Mummy force feed you apples and now every time someone of something is apple related it sets off one of spasms?
post #479 of 506
They should attack this from the piracy angle - say by not including the cost of the software they're tantamount to admitting that the driving force behind PC sales is freely available pirated software.

Remember the Ballmer comment that 90% of content on all iPods was stolen?

touche!
post #480 of 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAPacket View Post

So...it's just a coincidence you sound like this clown:

Tauron @ Dec 30th 2006 10:44PM
"HD DVD will win the format war. I already pre-ordered an HD-XA2 because I'm that positive about this particular format. I've seen a Blu-ray demonstrated at a local electronics store, and the criticism is accurate. Blu-ray doesn't look much better than an upconverted DVD. An HD broadcast via satellite looks better. I have not seen an HD DVD, but, the vast majority of the consumers are behind it, and they all confer that HD DVD looks better than a Blu-ray. Sorry SONY, but history repeats. (remember Beta?) The only thing is, $999.99 for this player won't help Toshiba. Another reason HD DVD will win this war is Toshiba's prices. All prior models are available for about $500 if you know where to look. But, eventually this model's price will drop too. Just like standard DVD players when they first came out."


I never said that.

Link the post where I say that in this thread or shutup and admit you are a lying rat.
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