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When is the GOP going to recover??

Poll Results: When will the GOP find a new direction and recover some power?

 
  • 37% (6)
    10 years from now
  • 0% (0)
    15 years from now
  • 6% (1)
    25 years from now
  • 0% (0)
    half a century from now
  • 56% (9)
    in the 22th century
16 Total Votes  
post #1 of 316
5/6/09 at 7:08am
Thread Starter 
The GOP, the party of no ideas and no leadership. When will they at least find a viable new direction and regain some of the power they lost?
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post #2 of 316
5/6/09 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

The GOP, the party of no ideas and no leadership. When will they at least find a viable new direction and regain some of the power they lost?

None of the above.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #3 of 316
5/6/09 at 7:48am
1980
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #4 of 316
5/6/09 at 7:50am
22 is my lucky number too!

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #5 of 316
5/6/09 at 7:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

1980

I'm sure you're just trying to be humorous, but your joke has revealed a warning for those who think that 2 or 4 years aren't options for this recovery.

While I would not consider myself a Republican (at least in the recent formulation of the party), a little bit of history is always interesting.

The Republicans controlled the White house from 1968 - 1976. Wow. What a terrible time and a couple of terrible presidents. A VP that resigns in disgrace (Agnew). A president that was never elected (Ford). A president wrapped deep in a major scandal. Vietnam running in a full force. The economy in shambles. Government wage controls as well as price controls on oil/gasoline creating shortages. Going off the international gold standard. A pardon by the appointed VP (now president) of a corrupt and possibly criminal former president.

All-in-all a disaster.

But all it took was one term of Jimmy Carter before the Republican party "recovered".

The American public has an astonishingly short and superficial memory.
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post #6 of 316
5/6/09 at 8:01am
it's slightly different this time... the republican brand has been self mutilated as opposed to individual politicians screwing their own careers...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #7 of 316
5/6/09 at 8:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

it's slightly different this time... the republican brand has been self mutilated as opposed to individual politicians screwing their own careers...

Whatever. I'd say, for those all concerned about party dominance (I am not), I wouldn't put a lot of faith in "it's different this time". That's usually a sign of blind, wishful thinking. Of course history never repeats itself in exactly the same way.
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post #8 of 316
5/6/09 at 8:13am
2000-2008, it's all downhill from there.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #9 of 316
5/6/09 at 8:18am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

Whatever. I'd say, for those all concerned about party dominance (I am not), I wouldn't put a lot of faith in "it's different this time". That's usually a sign of blind, wishful thinking. Of course history never repeats itself in exactly the same way.

When was the last time the GOP was run by a lunatic radio host? I don't think ever. This time is different and it will take a long time for them to recover I think. Especially because they show no signs of understanding why they lost in the first place. Besides, Obama is a great president and I am optimistic this time will be the charm. Obama will get economic recovery as well as health and environmental reform in his first term. You will see.
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post #10 of 316
5/6/09 at 8:26am
It's not going to recover.


"Conservatism" at best, has an incoherent* philosophy -- at worst it's a mess of unexplored hunches. Liberals have the wealth of the Enlightement to draw on, and draw on consistently. Conservatives have been reduced to nitpicking factfinders.

"Well, don't you think that's a little extreme..." That's not a philosophy, it's a reaction.








*I mean that as "internally inconsistent and contradictory", not as "stupid".

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #11 of 316
5/6/09 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

When was the last time the GOP was run by a lunatic radio host? I don't think ever. This time is different and it will take a long time for them to recover I think. Especially because they show no signs of understanding why they lost in the first place. Besides, Obama is a great president and I am optimistic this time will be the charm. Obama will get economic recovery as well as health and environmental reform in his first term. You will see.

Again...whatever. And while the Republicans may not know why they lost, it seems that the Democrats appear to have been misled into why they won. If they put more weight into the reasoning being their agenda and "plan" for change than the harsh backlash against an incompetent and corrupt administration (only to replaced with another incompetent and likely corrupt...or at least slimy...and probably evil administration) as well as the importance of electing an "historic" figure , then they may well be in for a rude awakening.

Obama is a great president?!?! He's been president for 3 fucking months!!! We will see indeed. But I don't think we'll see what you're expecting.

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post #12 of 316
5/6/09 at 8:31am
Like any turnover of political power, the transition will occur when one party hands the election to the other.

It can happen in the blink of an eye, and folks can miss it if they start believing they're invincible.
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post #13 of 316
5/6/09 at 8:33am
And another thing, what "Conservatives" don't realize, is that they've tacitly/implicitly accepted the real assumptions of Enlightenment philosophy. There's no real difference -- except maybe they don't want the change quite as fast.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #14 of 316
5/6/09 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Like any turnover of political power, the transition will occur when one party hands the election to the other.

It can happen in the blink of an eye, and folks can miss it if they start believing they're invincible.

This is exactly right. I'd also say that there's an argument to be made that the Republicans (as a party) basically "took a dive" in 2008 (and probably in 1996 with Dole too) by nominating McCain. Maybe they knew they'd lose and just "threw it".

When you look beyond the day in a and day out movements to the longer term and broader "chess moves" of history, that certainly isn't unrealistic. I mean Dole for sure. I thought back then that they couldn't seriously have thought he had a chance but they had to put someone out there. Dole agreed to be the sacrificial lamb. Maybe McCain is the same.
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post #15 of 316
5/6/09 at 8:40am
Regardless of what the party calls itself, I'm hoping for a candidate and a party that actually believes in both freedom and the constitution. But I'm not holding my breath.
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post #16 of 316
5/6/09 at 8:45am
They will recover in part when Obama is shown to be mortal with his fence sitting on gay marriage. Don't ask, don't tell has conveniently disappeared but D.C. City Council has just passed a measure that will come up for congressional review. People will start asking why Perez Hilton thinks Ms. California is a "c*nt" and a "b*tch" for not supporting gay marriage but Obama is a once in a generation post-racial, messianic, change agent when he doesn't either.

Then some will note as Warren Buffet has, that inflation is on the way. Inflation is a form of taxation. Then there will be the other forms of taxation, the expiring Bush tax cuts, the attempts at form of cap and trade.

Right now Obama has the claims, but not the costs. Finally at some point unless they want to keep going broke, the media and comedians will need to actually report on Obama instead of just worshiping him. Too many variables there but I would bet it would be before 2012.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #17 of 316
5/6/09 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Inflation is a form of taxation. Then there will be the other forms of taxation, the expiring Bush tax cuts, the attempts at form of cap and trade.

True dat. And don't forget about loophole closing.

They spoke loudly about closing loophole for evil corporations and evil rich people. Expect them to be more surreptitious (I expect a late Thursday/Friday press release one week) about closing loopholes for the middle class too. Closing loopholes is a very clever and sneaky way to raise people's taxes but still be able to stand up and claim you didn't raise their taxes. And we know that Obama LOVES taxes (as much as he loves spending), after all he's already planning to raise taxes on future generations and, as you pointed out, he's stealthily taxing people by printing money.
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post #18 of 316
5/6/09 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

it's slightly different this time... the republican brand has been self mutilated as opposed to individual politicians screwing their own careers...

So you think indebting the future by tripling the deficit, continuing two wars, running on paygo and then abandoning it, an absolute culture of corruption and finally bailoutmania are core Democratic principles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

When was the last time the GOP was run by a lunatic radio host? I don't think ever. This time is different and it will take a long time for them to recover I think. Especially because they show no signs of understanding why they lost in the first place. Besides, Obama is a great president and I am optimistic this time will be the charm. Obama will get economic recovery as well as health and environmental reform in his first term. You will see.

Apparently we need a memory refresher. After the 1994 elections the many freshman Republican Congressmen and indeed the entire Republican Congressional Congress invited Limbaugh to a dinner and presented him with an award of thanks for his role in the Republican Revolution.

Democrats do not have a governing philosophy. This is why bills get larded up so easily and why issues like paygo and earmarks have never been addressed. The Democrats are not a real reform party, they just play one on television.

Republicans need only find some real reforms (not just tax cuts) to get their teeth into and they will have no problems. I expect that since the economy isn't going to recover very quickly people and their short memories might "throw the bums out" with more of the bums being Democrats as well.

Finally one last issue I forgot to target. Obama clearly lied when he claimed that a tax increase on 5% plus efficiency gains from electronic records would allow us to cover the uninsured. The second they go after the insured to cover the uninsured, ie, the second they start touching people's health care, the wheels will come off the cart again.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #19 of 316
5/6/09 at 9:50am
Where oh where is the next Reagan.
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post #20 of 316
5/6/09 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Where oh where is the next Reagan.

Six feet under.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #21 of 316
5/6/09 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Six feet under.

Be fair, I did say the next Reagan, unless you meant the next Reagan is already buried before he, her is chosen.

Yeah, that'll work.
The time has passed.
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post #22 of 316
5/6/09 at 11:00am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

It's not going to recover.


"Conservatism" at best, has an incoherent* philosophy -- at worst it's a mess of unexplored hunches. Liberals have the wealth of the Enlightement to draw on, and draw on consistently. Conservatives have been reduced to nitpicking factfinders.

"Well, don't you think that's a little extreme..." That's not a philosophy, it's a reaction.








*I mean that as "internally inconsistent and contradictory", not as "stupid".

Unexplored hunches like claiming that tax cuts for the rich "trickes down" and that the solution to the economic slowdown is, you guessed it, tax cuts and less spending when every country in the world is doing essentially what the Obama admin is doing: stimulus spending.

The GOP has become the party of the fearful and paranoid. The party that ignores evidence and acts from the 'gut'. And has no principles except to spam the public, pray on fears and incite paranoia to enact nothing.

Well, fuuck them.
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post #23 of 316
5/6/09 at 11:02am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Where oh where is the next Reagan.

Funny you say that. Reagan was:
1. an OK president
2. very different in principles, character and morals than today's GOP scum

Yet, people keep worshiping Reagan. I guess that fits well into their dogmatic frame of mind.
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post #24 of 316
5/6/09 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Funny you say that. Reagan was:
1. an OK president
2. very different in principles, character and morals than today's GOP scum

Yet, people keep worshiping Reagan. I guess that fits well into their dogmatic frame of mind.

True, but he tripled the debt after 8 years and turned the US from a lending nation to a debtor nation.

Posted this numerous times in response to Obama's handling of the economy and tripling debt, deficit and those pushing the wrongheadedness of his policies ignore it.
An example,
Quote:
I've never seen a country or a person borrow its way to prosperity.

Who posted this?
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post #25 of 316
5/6/09 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

...when every country in the world is doing essentially what the Obama admin is doing: stimulus spending.

Ahhh, the infamous reasoning by looking at what everyone else is doing to determine what's right. Oh dear argumentum ad populum where have you been. Alive and well I see.



Like Mom used to say, "If all your friends decided to jump off a bridge, would you too?!"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

The party that ignores evidence and acts from the 'gut'. And has no principles except to spam the public, pray on fears and incite paranoia...

Now which party were you talking about again? because that sure sounds a lot like the Democrats too.
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post #26 of 316
5/6/09 at 11:55am
Or maybe it's that when Democrats and liberals use fear to "persuade" people it's because they are just being realistic and pointing out the fucked up mess that the other guys got us into. And when they ignore facts, evidence and science it's because they are being practical and not bound by ideological constraints.
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post #27 of 316
5/6/09 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

Or maybe it's that when Democrats and liberals use fear to "persuade" people it's because they are just being realistic and pointing out the fucked up mess that the other guys got us into. And when they ignore facts, evidence and science it's because they are being practical and not bound by ideological constraints.

WTF?

And I thought I was high.
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post #28 of 316
5/6/09 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

WTF?

And I thought I was high.

Oh shit! I forgot! Here's the memo:

"Democrats have a monopoly on truth, science, facts, evidence and righteousness. They never lie. They're never corrupt. They're never racist or sexist. They not only always mean well, but do well. They never engage in dubious policy making that has negative long-term effects. They are the nice guys, looking out for other nice guys. Pure as the driven snow. They never engage in slimy partisan political tactics. When they do something that turns out bad its either someone else's fault or for our own good. When they restrict or eliminate our freedom it's not that they don't really believe in freedom, it's that we didn't really need that freedom."
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post #29 of 316
5/6/09 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

Oh shit! I forgot! Here's the memo:

"Democrats have a monopoly on truth, science, facts, evidence and righteousness. They never lie. They're never corrupt. They're never racist or sexist. They not only always mean well, but do well. They never engage in dubious policy making that has negative long-term effects. They are the nice guys, looking out for other nice guys. Pure as the driven snow. They never engage in slimy partisan political tactics. When they do something that turns out bad its either someone else's fault or for our own good. When they restrict or eliminate our freedom it's not that they don't really believe in freedom, it's that we didn't really need that freedom."

WTF?

And I thought I was high.
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post #30 of 316
5/6/09 at 12:37pm
Quote:
I've never seen a country or a person borrow its way to prosperity.

The author has left the house.
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post #31 of 316
5/6/09 at 1:04pm
Isn't it sad that the board doesn't have a quote function?

Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

The author has left the house.

Wait.. how can you know that when you asked this...

Quote:
Who posted this?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #32 of 316
5/6/09 at 1:30pm
Isn't it wonderful that the board has options that aren't required to reply.

Why wouldn't a poster use them?

Nah.
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post #33 of 316
5/6/09 at 2:10pm
Thread Starter 
As always, republicans hijack the tread and turn a civilized discussion into a sh1tstorm.
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post #34 of 316
5/6/09 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

As always, republicans hijack the tread and turn a civilized discussion into a sh1tstorm.

All they got left, show some compassion, then crap on then.
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post #35 of 316
5/6/09 at 2:14pm
Cantor just gave in to Rush by saying the trip they are going on is not a listening tour. The GOP has no chance of being taken seriously as long as they continue bowing to Rush. They made a huffy fuss out of another bow, but this is on hands and knees, kissing the feet.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #36 of 316
5/6/09 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Cantor just gave in to Rush by saying the trip they are going on is not a listening tour. The GOP has no chance of being taken seriously as long as they continue bowing to Rush. They made a huffy fuss out of another bow, but this is on hands and knees, kissing the feet.

New motto,
What state do you live in.
Denial.

Where have I heard that before.
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post #37 of 316
5/6/09 at 3:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

Oh shit! I forgot! Here's the memo:

"Democrats have a monopoly on truth, science, facts, evidence and righteousness. They never lie. They're never corrupt. They're never racist or sexist. They not only always mean well, but do well. .........................etc etc

I think you forgot the crying baby Smilies after that...thing...you posted.
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post #38 of 316
5/6/09 at 5:58pm
About 2016 or 2020.

By then hopefully they will have learned why they fell from favor and what to do about it. Also the memory of what they did in the last years of the 20th and early part of this century will have faded.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #39 of 316
5/7/09 at 4:33am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

All they got left, show some compassion, then crap on then.

The human capacity to stick to a failed philosophy never ceases to amaze me. We shall poop on them.
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post #40 of 316
5/8/09 at 9:10am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

About 2016 or 2020.

By then hopefully they will have learned why they fell from favor and what to do about it. Also the memory of what they did in the last years of the 20th and early part of this century will have faded.


Problem is, if they act rationally and based on factual evidence they will reach the same conclusion as democrats.

They what do you do? Educate the masses? Oh the chaos that would ensue!!
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