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When is the GOP going to recover?? - Page 2

Poll Results: When will the GOP find a new direction and recover some power?

 
  • 37% (6)
    10 years from now
  • 0% (0)
    15 years from now
  • 6% (1)
    25 years from now
  • 0% (0)
    half a century from now
  • 56% (9)
    in the 22th century
16 Total Votes  
post #41 of 316
Limbaugh to Powell: 'Become a Democrat'
Yeah, keep on marginalizing themselves for the big comeback.

If Powell apologizes, it is truly over for the Republicans.
post #42 of 316
I remember SDW starting a thread just like this after the last Bush victory, and the lefties on the board could barely contain their rage and disgust.

Funny how both sides act exactly the same, and pretend that they're nothing alike.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #43 of 316
When the GOP stops making Dijon Mustard the focus of it's political philosophy then they might actually have a chance of speaking to the American people.

And speaking of mustard....

"Grey Poupon is owned and manufactured by Kraft Foods. It is the processed cheese of mustards. It is the fucking Velveeta of faux-French products. Can we all shut the fuck up?"

--The Awl, "People Are Idiots And Yet I Am Responding To This Idiocy," May 7, 2009.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #44 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I remember SDW starting a thread just like this after the last Bush victory, and the lefties on the board could barely contain their rage and disgust.

Funny how both sides act exactly the same, and pretend that they're nothing alike.

You mean like unfettered and unconditional support for the president of the United States during a time of national crisis? Anything other than that is seditionist and anti-American? I mean, SDW did, in fact, write an impassioned defense of this attitude a few years ago.

Do you mean to imply that Republicans were less the genuine about this position?
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #45 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Do you mean to imply that Republicans were less the genuine about this position?

No, I meant to point out how the Democrats can't take the same stuff they are trying to dish out.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #46 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

No, I meant to point out how the Democrats can't take the same stuff they are trying to dish out.

The question you should really be asking yourself is that after 8 years of Bush why should they have to?
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #47 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

No, I meant to point out how the Democrats can't take the same stuff they are trying to dish out.

Oh, but see. There is actually a HUGE difference.

See, Republicans were actually pissed off and thoroughly annoyed by liberal dissent during Iraq.

Democrats, on the other hand, are laughing their asses off at Republican's sudden discovery of principle, dissent and protest.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #48 of 316
My, how the tables have turned.

Where is the liberal outrage over the war now that a Democrat is in office and Democrats control Congress?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #49 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

My, how the tables have turned.

Where is the liberal outrage over the war now that a Democrat is in office and Democrats control Congress?

It's obvious you don't read liberal blogs. LOL!
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #50 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

My, how the tables have turned.

Where is the liberal outrage over the war now that a Democrat is in office and Democrats control Congress?

Don't worrry - there is still plenty of outrage that the Bush administration lied to get us into this war, and dumped it on Obama's doorstep for him to clean up.
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post #51 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerLurker View Post

Don't worrry - there is still plenty of outrage that the Bush administration lied to get us into this war, and dumped it on Obama's doorstep for him to clean up.

I don't support the war, BTW. It was and is unconstitutional. Obama has no intention of bringing our troops home, however.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #52 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerLurker View Post

Don't worrry - there is still plenty of outrage that the Bush administration lied to get us into this war, and dumped it on Obama's doorstep for him to clean up.

Yes, and we're all stunned at the speed with which he's trying to clean off his door step.



Let's be totally honest here, Democrats never met a war they didn't love. Nothing's changed here.
post #53 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I don't support the war, BTW. It was and is unconstitutional. Obama has no intention of bringing our troops home, however.

Well of course he can't just bring the troops home instantly. Bush's War is so fucked up he has no choice but to mop the whole thing up.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #54 of 316
The problem is that the republican party has been hijacked by hard core religious wing of the party, not just social conservatives, I am talking the kind of psudo puritans that want anything remotely fun to be banned and would require the attendance of a church service each week...If you think that homosexuality is not a sin punishable by banishment from society, you cant be a republican, if you don't want to ban or at least restrict all kinds of content like video games, you cant be a republican,

And the party has abandoned the whole limited government thing,so there is no point in being a republican unless you want to be a member of the Christian equivalent of the Taliban.

For the record: I was a registered republican untill 2007, I was young dumb and full of idealism...
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #55 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

The problem is that the republican party has been hijacked by hard core religious wing of the party, not just social conservatives, I am talking the kind of psudo puritans that want anything remotely fun to be banned and would require the attendance of a church service each week...If you think that homosexuality is not a sin punishable by banishment from society, you cant be a republican, if you don't want to ban or at least restrict all kinds of content like video games, you cant be a republican,

And the party has abandoned the whole limited government thing,so there is no point in being a republican unless you want to be a member of the Christian equivalent of the Taliban.

What absolute garbage. There are plenty of Republicans who aren't religious conservatives.

And just who's in this "hard core religious wing" that is distinct from GOP's social conservative wing?

Methinks you have no idea what you are talking about.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #56 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

What absolute garbage. There are plenty of Republicans who aren't religious conservatives.

And just who's in this "hard core religious wing" that is distinct from GOP's social conservative wing?

Methinks you have no idea what you are talking about.

He's right. This starting showing up during the Reagan era. They're part of the Neocon movement. You know! The people who not only want you to vote for their policies but tell you how to think as well.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #57 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

He's right. This starting showing up during the Reagan era. They're part of the Neocon movement. You know! The people who not only want you to vote for their policies but tell you how to think as well.

People you as well can't seem to name huh?

While there is clearly voter overlap (which is why they both heavily lean Republican) there are key differences between the GOP's Christian Conservative wing and its Neo-Con wing.

Simplistic thinking about the "enemy" is common among liberals, but even casual watchers should know that the Neo-cons aren't particularly religious. Confusing some unexplained "hard core religious wing" with Cheney and his friends is simply ridiculous.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #58 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You know! The people who not only want you to vote for their policies but tell you how to think as well.

Anyone who considers themselves a party member and espouses their political platform pretty much falls in the category of telling others how to think.
post #59 of 316
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Confusing some unexplained "hard core religious wing" with Cheney and his friends is simply ridiculous.

Hard core religious wing are dangerous and delusional. Cheney and friends, however, are criminals.
post #60 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Well of course he can't just bring the troops home instantly. Bush's War is so fucked up he has no choice but to mop the whole thing up.

Bush's War has been wholeheartedly supported by the Democrats in Congress since day one.

They say they're against it, but their actions say something entirely different, don't they?

This is not "Bush's War", it's OUR War. War that was never officially declared by Congress. War that is unconstitutional, unethical, and immoral. It's our mess to clean up, and our representatives in government have no intention of doing so.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #61 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Bush's War has been wholeheartedly supported by the Democrats in Congress since day one.

Somewhere near 85% of the population of the US supported Bush's war on day one. I don't consider a measured and methodical withdrawal inappropriate because to do otherwise would risk personnel and strategic US interests.
post #62 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Hard core religious wing are dangerous and delusional. Cheney and friends, however, are criminals.

So your point is that criminals aren't dangerous or delusional?
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #63 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Hard core religious wing are dangerous and delusional. Cheney and friends, however, are criminals.

Whatever happened to the presumption of innocence? That's been the standard since the code of Hammurabi, close to 4000 years now. What changed?
post #64 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Well of course he can't just bring the troops home instantly. Bush's War is so fucked up he has no choice but to mop the whole thing up.

Afghanistan was both a Democrat & Republican war, Iraq was mostly a Republican war... but those darn Democrats kept the funding flowing.

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post #65 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Afghanistan was both a Democrat & Republican war, Iraq was mostly a Republican war... but those darn Democrats kept the funding flowing.

Gee I wonder why those darn Dems...

Does the term "against the troops" and other anti-isms spring to mind?
post #66 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Gee I wonder why those darn Dems...

Does the term "against the troops" and other anti-isms spring to mind?

I suppose so, but does that make it any more "right" in your mind? Just like speaking out against unfettered spending to support financial institutions and auto companies that should fail instead of go on public assistance? Personally, I'm against all of these things.

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post #67 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Gee I wonder why those darn Dems...

Does the term "against the troops" and other anti-isms spring to mind?

The reasoning here seems to be that even though many Democrats voted for, supported and continued to fund the wars by voting for appropriations bills, they are to be absolved of any guilt or responsibility for this because they didn't have the courage of their supposed anti-war convictions.
post #68 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I suppose so, but does that make it any more "right" in your mind? Just like speaking out against unfettered spending to support financial institutions and auto companies that should fail instead of go on public assistance? Personally, I'm against all of these things.

Never said I thought it was right, but having to rely on the public and their fickleness, they act like politicians, and hopefully fix the problem in due time.

The other stuff, depends on how you view the future if you do nothing.
post #69 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

The reasoning here seems to be that even though many Democrats voted for, supported and continued to fund the wars by voting for appropriations bills, they are to be absolved of any guilt or responsibility for this because they didn't have the courage of their supposed anti-war convictions.

I suppose many believed the rhetoric leading up to the Iraq war and when the excuses ended up to be so much crap, changed their mind.

You may call that flip-flopping, I call it changing your mind when facts don't support the reasoning.

Those that still believe Cheney, and the war is a good war etc. are the ones that should be feeling guilt because of the cheerleading they are still doing.

Long live the Dixie Chicks and fuck those fucking cheerleaders that tried to mess with them.
post #70 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Never said I thought it was right, but having to rely on the public and their fickleness, they act like politicians, and hopefully fix the problem in due time.

The other stuff, depends on how you view the future if you do nothing.

The fundamental mistake here is assigning individual beliefs to the interests of very large, and very diverse individuals and groups. The appearance of indecision, lack of focus, etc. emerges from this mixed environment. Take a look at the book "Human Action".

Regarding 'the future'... well, I've never learned to trust the opinions of politicians with no skin in the game. What ails the economy can be treated by stopping the printing of dollars, putting an end to propping up businesses that are a sinkhole ... I guess I just plain disagree with the R's and D's.

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post #71 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Regarding 'the future'... well, I've never learned to trust the opinions of politicians with no skin in the game. What ails the economy can be treated by stopping the printing of dollars, putting an end to propping up businesses that are a sinkhole ... I guess I just plain disagree with the R's and D's.

I suppose it depends on how big the "sinkholes" are and how it affects the non sinkholes that had nothing to do with the "sinkholes" that are affected.

eg. the auto parts industry.

The US economy, if it goes down will drag every other economy with it, and this is why keeping it afloat by allowing the printing of money to keep the world on a somewhat even keel until the recovery, which will happen.

Just my opinion.
post #72 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

I suppose it depends on how big the "sinkholes" are and how it affects the non sinkholes that had nothing to do with the "sinkholes" that are affected.

eg. the auto parts industry.

The US economy, if it goes down will drag every other economy with it, and this is why keeping it afloat by allowing the printing of money to keep the world on a somewhat even keel until the recovery, which will happen.

Just my opinion.

The problem is that it's exactly this propping up or keeping afloat that caused the problem in the first place! This recession (as will previous ones) is not a failure of capitalism, as many suppose, but a feature! It's the market adjusting to the malinvestment and misallocation of capital that was created as a result of the Fed-created bubbles (most recently the dot com and housing). So applying more of the same cure isn't going to fix it. The best thing they could have done (starting back in September) was nothing. For example, let the banks that were going down to fail. Let the car companies go bankrupt (they obviously are doing so anyway, but it's now 5 months and $35 billion later!) They have made things worse by these two major bailout/stimulus bills (not to mention the various other smaller things they've done)!
post #73 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

The problem is that it's exactly this propping up or keeping afloat that caused the problem in the first place! This recession (as will previous ones) is not a failure of capitalism, as many suppose, but a feature! It's the market adjusting to the malinvestment and misallocation of capital that was created as a result of the Fed-created bubbles (most recently the dot com and housing).

I don't think so, greed caused the "bubble" and capitalism fed it.
Greed is capitalism after all.
post #74 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

I don't think so, greed caused the "bubble" and capitalism fed it.

Your thinking it doesn't make it true. The bubble was created by the Fed monetary and credit expansion. Essentially trying to create wealth out of thin air. It failed. This latest attempt will fail too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Greed is capitalism after all.

Wrong.
post #75 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

Your thinking it doesn't make it true. The bubble was created by the Fed monetary and credit expansion. Essentially trying to create wealth out of thin air. It failed. This latest attempt will fail too.
Wrong.

The bubble was created by the greed of capitalists selling properties to people they knew couldn't afford the jump in interest rates to make money in the short term.

Now they buy up the same properties at fire-sale prices with the money they made.

Tin foil hat time, but not to far off if you look at who's making money off of foreclosures.

Greed? Yeah.
post #76 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

The bubble was created by the greed of capitalists selling properties to people they knew couldn't afford the jump in interest rates to make money in the short term.
Greed? Yeah.

Let's not forget to mention the greedy wall street capitalists who created mortgage-backed securities and credit default swaps, and then proceeded to sell the living shit out of them.
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post #77 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

People you as well can't seem to name huh?

While there is clearly voter overlap (which is why they both heavily lean Republican) there are key differences between the GOP's Christian Conservative wing and its Neo-Con wing.

Simplistic thinking about the "enemy" is common among liberals, but even casual watchers should know that the Neo-cons aren't particularly religious. Confusing some unexplained "hard core religious wing" with Cheney and his friends is simply ridiculous.

Listen. When they start saying things like " I'm on a misson for god " http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=923136n , start mucking about with the seperation of church and state, prayer in the schools, mucking around with Roe vs. Wade, and want to tell you with whom and how you spend your private time in the bedroom that's quite enough!


http://mdn.org/2000/STORIES/CHENEY.HTM

And yes I know they aren't really religous. They just use that angle.
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post #78 of 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Listen. When they start saying things like " I'm on a misson for god " http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=923136n , start mucking about with the seperation of church and state, prayer in the schools, mucking around with Roe vs. Wade, and want to tell you with whom and how you spend your private time in the bedroom that's quite enough!


http://mdn.org/2000/STORIES/CHENEY.HTM

And yes I know they aren't really religous. They just use that angle.

That's weak, by anybody's standards.

Bush's appeal to faith is absolutely no different from that of Barack "Instrument of God" Obama.
Not in the slightest.

Nobody credibly believes that Cheney is a religious conservative. And all the issues you go on to mention are those raised in standard faith-political interface discussions.

So I'll ask again: Name some of these "hard core religious wing" extremists in the GOP who you and greer say exist (distinct from the social conservative wing) and are America's equivalent of the Taliban.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #79 of 316
Well in tune with the original subject :http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30745624//

Quote:
Yes, it's that bad for the GOP
Debates inside the party highlight the real problem: What is their vision?

How timely!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #80 of 316
The "D" beside their names must mean doofus, dope or dump. Democrats being misled all over the place. First it was the Iraq war. Then it was torture:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090514/...pelosi_torture

Now:

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_12373595

Democrats seem to be making being misled into part of their platform. It fits well with the "that wasn't me" mantra of the party leader.

Additionally, I bet the people who thought they were voting for change are starting to wonder when they'll actually get some:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/05/...nal/index.html
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