or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Amazon unveils 9.7-inch Kindle DX with focus on education
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Amazon unveils 9.7-inch Kindle DX with focus on education - Page 4

post #121 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Bravo for you. I don't waste my time carrying a device to read a print newspaper. There is a reason the LA Times is leaking money badly and > 26% drop in readership.
Enjoy that overpriced paperweight when the bulk of it's appeal [Newspapers] fall one by one to HTML5 enabled versions fully subsidized by online advertising I can read for free in my Web Browser on OS X.

Thank you. I'll still be reading my Kindle and enjoying it and you'll still be rude.

Geez, you try to share some information with people...
post #122 of 248
I can't understand all the harping!

***It's expensive:***
1) Apple is expensive but better that's why we chose it - Amazon is going the same route - the attention to detail is amazing. The Kindle packaging is as good if not better than apple's

2) if you consider you have this for 3 years and the wireless service on any other platform would be worth at least $10/month - the normal Kindle is free and this one is a $100 - big deal. I LOVE that it doesn't have monthly service charges - it is the best wireless revenue model period!

***It's not color***
1) It's a book that's easy to read for hours and gives no more eye strain than a book
2) It just came out - I'm sure in 5 years we will have color

***It's not a laptop***
1) It's a BOOK - great so you concentrate on READING - not being interrupted every 5 secs by an email, im, game, etc
2) The battery lasts for MONTHS - try that one your iphone or laptop

I have a Kindle 2 and use it on business trips and at home - it almost perfect for what it's mission is

This is a great initiative device that is the best hope for books and subscriptions to be current in this new paperless age. Everyone should be applauding Amazon not criticizing them.
post #123 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isomorphic View Post

For $490 I can buy a pretty nice laptop, with a full-color screen. They really need to get the pricing down on these things.

Lots of people don't want laptops. They don't want clamshells. They don't want a computer!!!

I wouldn't expect geeks on a computer company forum to agree, but I do expect thinking people to think outside their box once in a while.

The iPhone/iPod works because they are not computers to most people. They don't act like one or usually breakdown like one.

Reading is fundamental and just like your $500 laptop hasn't put books out of business, it won't compete with the Kindles. Sure the price needs to drop to the $200 for many folks, but I think half of my family would just as soon read from a Kindle than lug around a laptop or squint from an iPhone ... and iPhones are pretty good!
The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
Reply
The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
Reply
post #124 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

And that's exactly why they took this name. Kindle is the fire starter.

But it also gets burned up at the very beginning.

I believe that will happen to these devices as well, and I think that Amazon knows it too.

Yup. Amazon isn't in business to manufacture sell e-book readers, they are in business to sell Books. They will be perfectly happy to get others to build and even sell readers*, just so long as they tie back into Amazon's store. But first, Amazon needs to show that it is a worthwhile business to be in.

* By "readers" I don't mean Kindle-clones, but a successful device will need many of those attributes. I don't believe the current laptop or phone platforms will compete.

Imagine a super-light notebook with a large color-e-ink display on the outside of the lid, and extreme low-power mode when closed, but enough for e-books, email, calendar and other basic apps, but a full-function computer when open.

Or a two-sided tablet!
post #125 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Who cares? The publishers care. If they find that their textbooks aren't selling, or that newspaper subscriptions aren't selling, or magazines, they will stop doing it.

When you consider that Apple has, by now, sold about 40 million iPhones/itouch's, many of which are still in use, and Amazon, possibly half a million Kindles, well, thats a pretty big gap. If only 10% of Apple's customers are reading books on the devices, that's almost 4 million. It's about ten times the size of the Kindles audience.

Apple's selling devices much faster than Amazon ever will, so the lead just piles up.

We've read reports that book sales from the app store are much larger than all the books sold on either Amazon or Sony's platforms put together. And that's despite Apple having a small fraction of the books either of the others have. What happens as Apple's book "supply" increases significantly?

What happens when Apple's got 50 million devices out there? 80 million? 100 million?

What happens if Amazon releases its program for more devices including netbooks?

I think that the Kindle is dead meat. It may take a year or two until we see that happening.

Your grasp of markets and segmentation is rudimentary at best. It is the aim of most companies to get a firm grip of the 10-20% of their market that drive most of the revenue. Amazon doesn't want to sell Kindles, it wants to sell eBooks. No matter how many iPhones or iTouches are sold, it will still be a sucky device for reading and drive only casual book purchasing/usage. Kindle buyers are obviously hardcore readers (or they wouldn't have spent so much on it) and so their average spend on eBooks is probably many multiples greater than that of an iPhone user. Everyone I know who has one swears by it - it is a self selecting crowd.

Amazon/publishers have already learned that control of the content/delivery ecosystem is key - iTunes owns US music and was the last nail in the coffin of standalone physical music retail. Since Apple don't care about margins the only guys who can sell CDs are Target/WalMart/Best Buy etc. as "loss leaders" or Amazon at low margins/high volumes. Amazon/publishers want to get control of the written content market in the iTunes way and the Kindle is the first salvo to hook the hardcore, high revenue fish. Amazon (and publishers) needed to create a focused killer device to prove the eBook concept to the world with an ecosystem that makes them all money (not Apple). It is not a perfect device, but it is pretty damn cool for its purpose. Plus any purchases on iPhone kindle app are still high-margin revenue to Amazon/publishers.

The Kindle may not ever become a ubiquitous device but that won't matter as long as whatever devices follow - Apple netpad, tricorders, holo-glasses, etc. purchase their written content from Amazon/publishers.

Your point about device convergence is also a red herring - existing electronic devices converge when they do not conflict in purpose/function with each other and can be miniaturized enough to all fit in an acceptable form factor. Phone, MP3, internet, gaming, etc. are fine - they can utilize similar feature sets - reading a book or newspaper can't - needs a bigger screen, longer battery life etc. Laptops/Kindles will converge eventually but only after some major screen/battery/cost/software improvements which will all take a while to come.
post #126 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmcavoy View Post

Imagine a super-light notebook with a large color-e-ink display on the outside of the lid, and extreme low-power mode when closed, but enough for e-books, email, calendar and other basic apps, but a full-function computer when open.

I imagined a similar product like that recently, but with a swivel lid so the eBook Reader could become a tablet PC. The whole thing would require a protective cover but that could easy be a simple, thin hard cover that would latch via a small magnet, like the lid latches to the base, and could be folded over and latched so you can hold it in your hand as an eBook or tablet PC. It would be expensive and it couldn't be nearly as thin or lightweight as an dedicated eBook Reader, but with the needed battery size for a tablet/notebook it would have an amazingly long battery life as an eBook Reader. However, such a product seems so "nichey" and complex that I would very surprised to see such a thing every pop into existence.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #127 of 248
This has failure (written in e-ink) all over it.

Its way overpriced....for what its supposed to do.

My 2 Pennies

One thought he was invincible... the other thought he could fly.

They were both wrong.

Reply

One thought he was invincible... the other thought he could fly.

They were both wrong.

Reply
post #128 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by iCarbon View Post

Having just been involved in choosing a texkbook for the organic chemistry course for next semester, we looked at several options that were well over $300/student for the course (I work at a major public university), the price for the Kindle isn't too absurd, particularly given some of the advantages of an e-reader. What I would like to see is the ability to write notes in the margins of things. It would be incredibly useful for me in keeping and filing papers for research if I could.

For $500 I'd want the thing to have a digitizer and the ability to write notes on it (ie create my own PDF even if it's just strokes and no handwriting recognition). Even if it cost $100 more for the digitizer it would have made this far more useful for a student.
post #129 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by 21yr_mac_user View Post

I can't understand all the harping!

***It's expensive:***
1) Apple is expensive but better that's why we chose it - Amazon is going the same route - the attention to detail is amazing. The Kindle packaging is as good if not better than apple's

***It's not color***
1) It's a book that's easy to read for hours and gives no more eye strain than a book
2) It just came out - I'm sure in 5 years we will have color

Sorry, for what it is and does, it's very expensive. I have 2 friends who've broken their Kindles; they are not all that sturdy.

The lack of color is a huge problem if one of the main intended uses is for textbooks. I can't think of a single text I assign (I'm a professor) that would work in B&W, even with 16 shades. It might work for my colleagues in English, but most of us in the sciences or the arts use lots and lots of color in our work.
post #130 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

Your grasp of markets and segmentation is rudimentary at best. It is the aim of most companies to get a firm grip of the 10-20% of their market that drive most of the revenue. Amazon doesn't want to sell Kindles, it wants to sell eBooks.

Then it bloody well should have sold Kindles cheaper and not locked out every OTHER ebook on the market with a completely new DRM that they don't seem to want to release to say...Sony or iRex.

Quote:
Your point about device convergence is also a red herring - existing electronic devices converge when they do not conflict in purpose/function with each other and can be miniaturized enough to all fit in an acceptable form factor. Phone, MP3, internet, gaming, etc. are fine - they can utilize similar feature sets - reading a book or newspaper can't - needs a bigger screen, longer battery life etc. Laptops/Kindles will converge eventually but only after some major screen/battery/cost/software improvements which will all take a while to come.

How does reading on a computer (which you're doing right now) conflict with reading on a kindle? The only difference is LCD vs eInk. Screen size is about the same for a laptop and eBook.

It doesn't. eBooks are a subset functionality of existing laptops, phones, PDAs and ipods.
post #131 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

NyTime is not MAYBE interested they helped launch it. It's maybe going to save the newspapers as we know it. I'm sorry for getting personal but you really have thing against this device. The iPod was a one thing device at one point - remember - music? And boy wasn't it expensive?

But people really want to carry music wherever they go in a SMALL device

If you could put the Kindle in your pocket, it would be different.

Don't you think if the Kindle had sold a million units already they would be shouting it from the rooftops?

I'm not thrilled with the device in its PRESENT incarnation.

I could say the same about you. You seem to totally ignore that computer technology is getting much better, lighter, using less battery power, and that better batteries are coming out to force a dedicated device out of the market.

That's how I see it.

Why is my strong opinion any less important than your being against what I've said?

It isn't. Many times large companies have backed a product category that later failed. The fact that some companies are backing (and we don't yet know what that means here) this doesn't mean it will succeed either.

Have you bought one yet?
post #132 of 248
I like it. And I don't see why it cant be used in the classroom for many topics. Other than the sciences and math (and art?), do graphics really matter that much for textbooks? I was a history major, then an English lit major. Color pictures were hardly necessary.

<Cue in postings with 500 subjects that need color graphics in 5 . . . 4 . . . 3 . . .>

It's too expensive. But print media is dead, and they need to have a digital device to possibly give them a distribution model to the 50% of people out there who don't care about laptops but do want to have a highly portable device to read with. I'm sure the hope is that it will become an ubiquitous technology that will eventually be subsidized for free by the media companies.

No one is mentioning the stellar battery life this thing has. With a 10" color touch screen, you'd be lucky to get 5 hours. Kindle measures their life in days - weeks if you turn EVDO off.

I'm not buying one until it's <$200 though.
post #133 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by 21yr_mac_user View Post

I can't understand all the harping!
[...]

***It's not color***
1) It's a book that's easy to read for hours and gives no more eye strain than a book
2) It just came out - I'm sure in 5 years we will have color

I had color and a bigger display on my Mac in 1988. Why can't I buy e-books now from Amazon for my Mac? Is it more difficult for Amazon to develop a Mac app than to develop an entirely new hardware+software platform? I don't think so. Amazon has a free iPhone app, so what's the big deal with going full Mac? I don't need/want another device in my life. Let's not get so wrapped up in our creations; Start thinking green, Amazon.
post #134 of 248
Here's one additional problem I have with Kindle (old and new)-

I seriously toyed with getting a Kindle 2, and played with one owned by a friend. I travel a great deal and enjoy reading novels while I travel. Some of these trips are weeks long, so I often carry multiple books with me. The Kindle 2 seemed a good solution. I could pack dozens of novels into the Kindle.

The problem came when I went in search of content. I started with a list of 10 novels I wanted to read. Only 2 of the 10 were available for the Kindle. I developed another list of 10 novels. Four of them were available. So, if I wanted to read books I wanted to read, as opposed to only those Kindle had available, I was going to have to carry some books along with the device, thus completely negating the value of the Kindle for me. All the current bestsellers were available, but they're not what I tend to read. So content availability will be a problem for Kindle, and I suspect it will be a problem for some time to come.
post #135 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Then it bloody well should have sold Kindles cheaper and not locked out every OTHER ebook on the market with a completely new DRM that they don't seem to want to release to say...Sony or iRex.



How does reading on a computer (which you're doing right now) conflict with reading on a kindle? The only difference is LCD vs eInk. Screen size is about the same for a laptop and eBook.

It doesn't. eBooks are a subset functionality of existing laptops, phones, PDAs and ipods.

They could have opened it up, I agree, but Amazon seems to be taking a leaf out of Apple's book to create their preferred total ecosystem - (device, shop, channel, etc.) hence proprietary DRM and a proprietary device for the early adopters. The others don't have access to the whispernet and so break the Amazon "always on" model. If you are hardcore, you probably ditched your Sony for a Kindle anyway.

Laptops are heavy, have crap batteries, are awkward to use other than on a desk/table or sitting upright, don't have automated backup ootb, are disruptive to reading (email/chat etc.) and you look like a tool if you try to read one by the pool (and it's even worse if you drop it in there). Laptops are a piss-poor substitute to many major reading situations.
post #136 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwana_Dik View Post

Here's one additional problem I have with Kindle (old and new)-

I seriously toyed with getting a Kindle 2, and played with one owned by a friend. I travel a great deal and enjoy reading novels while I travel. Some of these trips are weeks long, so I often carry multiple books with me. The Kindle 2 seemed a good solution. I could pack dozens of novels into the Kindle.

The problem came when I went in search of content. I started with a list of 10 novels I wanted to read. Only 2 of the 10 were available for the Kindle. I developed another list of 10 novels. Four of them were available. So, if I wanted to read books I wanted to read, as opposed to only those Kindle had available, I was going to have to carry some books along with the device, thus completely negating the value of the Kindle for me. All the current bestsellers were available, but they're not what I tend to read. So content availability will be a problem for Kindle, and I suspect it will be a problem for some time to come.

That's still six you don't have to carry, (net 5 including the device) and this is early days - the more people get into it, the more publishers will develop/submit e-content. I seem to remember the early days of iTunes people said the same thing - but it developed on the back of mainstream tastes and now has the majority of independent content too.
post #137 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

The price$ are already half for a book and have been. Go to Amazon and check it out.

I did check it out. I compared several printed books to three kindle books. Paper won...the best price was for used books.

Your Heart Belongs to Me. Dean Koontz
Kindle: 9.99
Used in Print: 1.85

Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim
Kindle: 9.75
Used in Print 1.13
New in Print 9.74

Moby Dick
Kindle: 9.99
Herman Melville: Moby-Dick (Paperback): 21.50 used from 1.93
post #138 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The thing about Amazon unlike the Apple store, you can't just go check it out in person. I'm interested in the text to speech part for a blind friend. I'm curious if the mobile Acrobat Reader includes all the accessibility functions and that the Kindle can tab around the page to read the tags and annotations properly.

Here is how you do it, step by step. Judge for yourself. On the right-hand margin of the device is the little joystick, snuggled into a button, making it U-shaped. The top half of the button is "Menu" and the bottom half is "Back".

Press "Menu". You get a menu along the right side of the screen, with various things like "Turn Wireless Off", "Shop in Kindle Store", "Cover", "Table of Contents", etc. When I just did this, my cursor started out at "Table of Contents". At the bottom of the menu is "Start Text-to-Speech".

With the little joystick, move the cursor to the bottom menu item. There is no audio feedback as the cursor moves from item to item. So if you're completely blind, there would be a danger of stopping before you get to the bottom. But you won't over-shoot, so that's good.

Press the joystick to start the text-to-speech. Speech takes a moment to start. I usually end up pushing the joystick a couple of times, figuring it hasn't registered the first click, but I think it just takes a moment.

Kindle starts reading. The voice is quite good, though not as good as Alex, I think. Better than the pre-Alex voices though. One drawback: the voice doesn't pause after reading a section-header or title. Since there's no period, it reads straight to the next line without a break, which will bother you. Also it doesn't seem to pause for a paragraph.

To stop Kindle reading: press the Menu button. The menu appears with the cursor already on "Stop Speaking". Press the joystick.

It's very serviceable. With a few improvements in appropriate pauses (and maybe a little noise feedback when the cursor moves down the menu so you can hear when you're at the bottom), it would be outstanding.
post #139 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoshop59 View Post

I did check it out. I compared several printed books to three kindle books. Paper won...the best price was for used books.

Moby Dick
Kindle: 9.99
Herman Melville: Moby-Dick (Paperback): 21.50 used from 1.93

You're either not being observant, or you're not being honest.
Moby Dick: $0.80 in kindle format.
post #140 of 248
Highlighting, clipping, and note taking desperately needs a stylus (why type in notes when you can scribble them far faster? It's the perfect size to be a digital notepad as well). The fact that those features seem at least a year off is terribly disappointing (and if it bugs me, I can't imagine how a student might feel). There's a niche market for full-sized e-readers, and I hope Amazon finds it profitable.
post #141 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

That's still six you don't have to carry, (net 5 including the device) ...

I think you completely missed the point of that post.

It doesn't matter how many books they "don't have to carry" as long as it's below the critical threshold that encourages a user to buy the device.

The problem is that the publishers don't have the "digital rights" to all the titles, but they need to stop artificially separating the rights before this will change.

It's 20C thinking to pretend that there is a "real" version, and that purchasers of digital copies are buying some "extra" or "sub" version. If a book is published at publisher X, that publisher should have the rights to the text in all forms.

A related problem with digital books (or digital anything really), is that at the same time publishers diss digital copies as extras or not the real thing, they insist that money-wise, we should be paying roughly the same price. No-one but an idiot would buy a digital version of a book that's been in print for literally hundreds of years for the same twenty dollar sticker price as the latest rip off printed version.

Same goes for iTunes movies, TV shows etc. If the market prices were allowed to fluctuate in such areas by removing the media monopolies, I doubt whether the average movie would be worth more than a couple of bucks and the average book less than that. Media producers and especially publishers are used to decades of charging 50 or a 100 bucks for the latest best seller in hardback when it's really only a hundred pages in rather large type and costs pennies to produce.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
Reply
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
Reply
post #142 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

I can't wait for the Apple device that will probably run on Verizon.

Color, OS programs, email, just hope we are not raped by a contract.

Should work well with iPhone, Mobile Me. It's happening.

The color option will be too expensive right now. Fujitsu just produced the first color E-ink device and it is slow and around $1000.00. In one or two years....I am excited. I don't want a color LED, I want the color E-ink.
post #143 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

No matter how many iPhones or iTouches are sold, it will still be a sucky device for reading and drive only casual book purchasing/usage. Kindle buyers are obviously hardcore readers (or they wouldn't have spent so much on it) and so their average spend on eBooks is probably many multiples greater than that of an iPhone user. Everyone I know who has one swears by it - it is a self selecting crowd.

Yeah, I completely agree. If you don't think the Kindle is for you, its not.
post #144 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by f00fighters View Post

I don't get it. Who buys these? What's the demographic? The technology isn't bad; I get it, but really... $489/$359? to read on a e-ink, or whatever it is in black & white. If it were a $100, I'd consider getting one for my dad.

I have 6 more years of undergrad and grad school left. I would LOVE to have all of my textbooks, PDFs, and other notes on this device. There are millions of students who would love to carry around something that light versus 20+ pounds of books each day.
post #145 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

There is NO way that a "little child" will be carrying these expensive devices to school and back every day. If they don't break them, they will get lost or stolen. As a parent, I would have had to think very carefully about letting my child take the chance that someone wouldn't try to take it away, and that during that incident, my child wouldn't get hurt.

Isn't that what people said about kids carrying laptops to school and yet Jr. High students use apple laptops every day.
post #146 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

Paraphrasing what SJ said for BR, it's a damn bag of hurt. The Kindle, in any of its variants, is an unremarkable piece of expensive CRAP, despite Amazon's "good" intentions.

Almost 500 dollars for a monochromatic, bulky and extremely limited device? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

And no, comparisons with similar comments for the iPod when it was first launched are not appropriate. The versatility of Apple's media players has been, from day one, WAY higher than that of the Kindle. A nice effort by Amazon, but that's all...no relevant markets are gonna replace their paper matter en masse, and few students will adopt it as the de facto substitute for textbooks.

The Kindle is just a nice device, whose potential will surely be better explored in much better iterations by companies like Apple. The KINDLE IS DEAD.


What is with the hate? ALL tech starts expensive and drops in price. SOMEONE has to bring it to market. Remember DVD players running 1000+ dollars. Now they are 35 bucks. Give it a couple of years and we will have cheaper devices with color and the ability to write on them and highlight as well (Sony's can do some highlighting right now).


I seem to remember SJ bringing that cute and colorful iMac to the table and people saying it was going to fail. Hmmmm.
post #147 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

Just so I know we are all on the same planet.....

You guys do realize that the Apple mystery tablet is going totally annihilate the kindle dx out of existence to the point where the destruction might cause a tear to form in the space time continuum.......right?

Unless this mystery tablet is using E-ink...and color E-ink technology, then the purported Apple tablet and the DX are totally different machines.

Example. The kindle doesn't use power to display an e-ink page, only to turn the page. If you are not using the whisper-net or a backlight (does it have a backlight?) then your battery will not discharge in 4 - 6 hours.

BIG DIFFERENCE!
post #148 of 248
If the average paperback is $7, you can buy almost 70 paperbacks for the cost of the kindle. Most major newspapers are now free online. In two years, as an electronic device in the beginning stages of it's evolution, the current Kindle will surely be outdated and ready for replacement in two years.

Even veracious readers probably could get 2 years worth of reading out of 70 books. I like to read but I'm lucky if I have the time to read a book a month. As readers go I realize that's probably a low number but I'm guessing it's closer to the average than 17.5 books per month.

The internet connection is a nice plus, but I have a computer because I need one, and so I'll use what I already have for internet browsing. The bookmarking, dictionary, and convenience of not breaking the spine of a thick book to keep from struggling to hold it open while reading is really attractive, but at $489, I can't say it's a feature that makes me feel I need one. Part of the fun of picking a book is browsing the physical shelves in book store. I can order a paperback from Amazon and have it shipped to my door (and give it away to someone when I'm done with it).

The point is, the Kindle is a very attractive device, but it is just way too expensive considering it has such a concentrated application with virtually no multipurpose use. I just bought a beautiful 26" LCD TV for a small 2nd bedroom for a bit more than what the kindle costs. For hundred bucks more you can get a mac mini which offers a huge number of ways and purposes to use it. Yes, those are completely different devices. However, comparing the amount of use you get out of each device, the Kindle's cost puts it in the range of an extremely costly luxury for average readers with the very deepest of pockets or people for whom reading far ousts TV, home computing, and gaming combined as the way they spend their free time.

If the latest Kindle were half the cost, I would be tempted. As it is, not so much. You can get an iTouch iPod for much less and download an ebook ap that gives you comparable ebook functions, music, a ton of other aps, internet browsing, video and more availability from different suppliers of ebooks than just Amazon. I'd love to have a Kindle right now, but not at that price.
post #149 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

Your grasp of markets and segmentation is rudimentary at best. It is the aim of most companies to get a firm grip of the 10-20% of their market that drive most of the revenue. Amazon doesn't want to sell Kindles, it wants to sell eBooks. No matter how many iPhones or iTouches are sold, it will still be a sucky device for reading and drive only casual book purchasing/usage. Kindle buyers are obviously hardcore readers (or they wouldn't have spent so much on it) and so their average spend on eBooks is probably many multiples greater than that of an iPhone user. Everyone I know who has one swears by it - it is a self selecting crowd.

It's nice that you criticized my knowledge, but what do you know?

Among other things you don't know that it's more than likely that a large segment of the Kindle buyers aren't much at reading, but rather are much at getting what they think is the hottest, and coolest device around. A device that almost no one has. A device that not too many will be getting.

If you were paying attention, you would also know that I've been saying that Amazon isn't interested in selling Kindles, but selling books, magazine and newspaper subscriptions etc.

Amazing that you know so many people who own one that you can refer to them as "everyone". You must have the biggest concentration of kindle owners outside of Amazon R&D. I notice that with all the rhetoric, you haven't said that YOU own one. Don't bother to do so now, because it won't be believable.

Quote:
Amazon/publishers have already learned that control of the content/delivery ecosystem is key - iTunes owns US music and was the last nail in the coffin of standalone physical music retail. Since Apple don't care about margins the only guys who can sell CDs are Target/WalMart/Best Buy etc. as "loss leaders" or Amazon at low margins/high volumes. Amazon/publishers want to get control of the written content market in the iTunes way and the Kindle is the first salvo to hook the hardcore, high revenue fish. Amazon (and publishers) needed to create a focused killer device to prove the eBook concept to the world with an ecosystem that makes them all money (not Apple). It is not a perfect device, but it is pretty damn cool for its purpose. Plus any purchases on iPhone kindle app are still high-margin revenue to Amazon/publishers.

Ah yeah. Nothing new in what you just said, other than some confusion in that you contradict youself in the same paragraph.

Quote:
The Kindle may not ever become a ubiquitous device but that won't matter as long as whatever devices follow - Apple netpad, tricorders, holo-glasses, etc. purchase their written content from Amazon/publishers.

Again, what's the point to all this? I already have been saying that, without the scifi references.

Quote:
Your point about device convergence is also a red herring - existing electronic devices converge when they do not conflict in purpose/function with each other and can be miniaturized enough to all fit in an acceptable form factor. Phone, MP3, internet, gaming, etc. are fine - they can utilize similar feature sets - reading a book or newspaper can't - needs a bigger screen, longer battery life etc. Laptops/Kindles will converge eventually but only after some major screen/battery/cost/software improvements which will all take a while to come.

You really are confused, and confusing. I can't easily figure out what you're trying to say. first you say that they will converge, by evolving, as I've been saying. Then you say they WON'T converge. Then you say they will.

Which is it?

You've said nothing new. In fact, though you don't seem to know it, where you can be understood at least, you haven't said anything I haven't.
post #150 of 248
People keep making this comparison, and I wish they wouldn't. It's accurate in only a very limited fashion. First, with the iPod, I never had to buy from the iTMS to feed my iPod. If I already had a bunch of CDs, I can put the music on the iPod with almost no effort. And if I had something from iTMS and wanted to listen to it on my car CD player (before I had a car with a connector), I could easy burn a CD. So the music data was incredibly mobile. In the early days of the iTMS, selection was woefully incomplete, but no one really cared too much, because if you couldn't get your songs there, it was easy to fall back on the CD store. Anything you wanted on your iPod, you could put on your iPod.

The Kindle is different in this regard, and the lock-in is much more real. I can't grab a book and rip it to my Kindle without a scanner and a ridiculous amount of time proofing. I can't buy a book from the Kindle store and move the book to another data format, so that I can read it on my Mac (or if I had a different e-ink reader I liked better, to that). There are some books in certain non-Kindle filetypes which I can put on my Kindle, and that's easy, but it's not the same a ripping.

And if there's a book I want on my Kindle, and it's not available, UNLIKE the days of the old iTMS, my only real option is to click a button on Amazon saying "Please tell the publisher I'd like this on Kindle".

Problem: The Beatles don't have their music on iTMS.
Question: How many people have the Beatles on their iPod?
Answer: Everyone who actually wants to.

Problem: Richard Feynman's "QED" isn't available for Kindle.
Question: How can I read QED on my Kindle?
Answer: I can choose something else to read, hoping QED will someday become available, or I could learn Spanish (because that version IS available), or I could put my Kindle aside and read the actual paperback. It's not old enough to be at Project Gutenberg.

I like my Kindle. But I feel much more lock-in with it than I ever did with my iPod.
post #151 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by emoney35 View Post

As nice as that would be, you're dreaming on the price! You just described a "Tablet Macbook Pro" (See inclusion of FW). How you think that would make it cheaper than a plastic Macbook, I have no clue? The price would be more like $1299, at the cheapest.

aahhhaaa!!! yes but with a large verzion and nytimes discounts for signing something we can bring down the price to much less /
whats in a name ? 
beatles
Reply
whats in a name ? 
beatles
Reply
post #152 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

aahhhaaa!!! yes but with a large verzion and nytimes discounts for signing something we can bring down the price to much less /

and i may add i wonder when we start to bootlegg the books for free . ?
whats in a name ? 
beatles
Reply
whats in a name ? 
beatles
Reply
post #153 of 248
I completely understand why Kindle 1 & 2 are successes, but I don't get why anyone would buy this DX. $500 is a lot for a big gray-scale monitor. How is this going to compete with or help publishers? Newspapers are offering subsidies with long-term subscriptions, but for newspapers on a Kindle - how do you get coupons, what about the Sunday edition in full color? Magazines - who wants to read a gray-scale version of a magazine??

Books - yes; newspapers - maybe; Sunday editions newspapers & magazines - no!

But even for books, whats if they have color photos - now you have to look at b/w versions of them?

If this was a full-color monitor (and $500 is a bit much to me) it would be great, but it's not.
post #154 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

They could have opened it up, I agree, but Amazon seems to be taking a leaf out of Apple's book to create their preferred total ecosystem - (device, shop, channel, etc.) hence proprietary DRM and a proprietary device for the early adopters. The others don't have access to the whispernet and so break the Amazon "always on" model. If you are hardcore, you probably ditched your Sony for a Kindle anyway.

Not really. They rapidly came out with a program for the iTouch/iPhone that can get all the content the Kindle can.

They don't care about the Kindle. It's just there to give some publicity to their digital sales.

They'll be just as happy with selling these services to anyone.

If they come out with a program for other devices, we'll see that happen, as it should.
post #155 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I think you completely missed the point of that post.

It doesn't matter how many books they "don't have to carry" as long as it's below the critical threshold that encourages a user to buy the device.

The problem is that the publishers don't have the "digital rights" to all the titles, but they need to stop artificially separating the rights before this will change.

It's 20C thinking to pretend that there is a "real" version, and that purchasers of digital copies are buying some "extra" or "sub" version. If a book is published at publisher X, that publisher should have the rights to the text in all forms.

A related problem with digital books (or digital anything really), is that at the same time publishers diss digital copies as extras or not the real thing, they insist that money-wise, we should be paying roughly the same price. No-one but an idiot would buy a digital version of a book that's been in print for literally hundreds of years for the same twenty dollar sticker price as the latest rip off printed version.

Same goes for iTunes movies, TV shows etc. If the market prices were allowed to fluctuate in such areas by removing the media monopolies, I doubt whether the average movie would be worth more than a couple of bucks and the average book less than that. Media producers and especially publishers are used to decades of charging 50 or a 100 bucks for the latest best seller in hardback when it's really only a hundred pages in rather large type and costs pennies to produce.

The problem is that publishers have learned the wrong lesson from iTunes. The lesson they've learned is that prices that are low and controlled by someone else, may stay low.

What they haven't learned is that those low prices sell far more content than does high prices.

The problem is also that they're locked into royalty costs that make it difficult to sell many books at really low prices. They're also threatened by booksellers such as Barnes & Nobel who don't want to see book prices lower than they sell them at.

As bookstores likely sell over 99% of books at this point, the publishers are still at their mercy.

I think digital books should sell for a much lower price than physical media. If that happened, more people would buy one as an impulse buy instead of having to think about it, the way they buy magazines at the checkout counter.
post #156 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

The color option will be too expensive right now. Fujitsu just produced the first color E-ink device and it is slow and around $1000.00. In one or two years....I am excited. I don't want a color LED, I want the color E-ink.

This is a MUCH more sophisticated device. I already gave the link.

http://www.dailytech.com/Japan+Gets+...ticle14610.htm
post #157 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Isn't that what people said about kids carrying laptops to school and yet Jr. High students use apple laptops every day.

Yes. And they're having problems with these programs too.

But at least a laptop is a device that does much more than a book reader. It might be worth the shot. I don't think that parents will want their kids to be carrying a $500 device that just has their books. My daughter didn't mind carrying all that around.
post #158 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

and i may add i wonder when we start to bootlegg the books for free . ?

This is already being done in the .alt newsgroups area.

It's part of the digital revolution I'm sad to say.

People are actually going to the effort of taking a book apart page by page, scanning them, and cleaning them up with OCR. They then put them in the newsgroups.
post #159 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Among other things you don't know that it's more than likely that a large segment of the Kindle buyers aren't much at reading, but rather are much at getting what they think is the hottest, and coolest device around. A device that almost no one has. A device that not too many will be getting.

All I can say is that you're wrong as far as my sample of one and a half, so far as the motivation.

I have one. I got it to read by the pool. It's bright light, so an LED screen is out. Whenever I try and read a book outdoors, the wind is always fiddling with my pages, and it gets annoying. The Kindle is a very nice solution to that. Put it in a Ziploc and you can even read in the tub

Some people (my mom, for instance) would be attracted to a Kindle because they accumulate such big piles of books over time, and a Kindle is seen as reducing clutter. (My mom is most definitely not a technophile and is currently on the fence about me buying her one, because the screen isn't quite white enough.)

So there you have it: convenience of reading in a specific setting, and the avoidance of accumulating piles of books. The motivations of one person who has one, and one person considering one.

I'm curious if you have one or if you know people with one. Did they buy it for the reasons you state? The Kindle frankly doesn't seem to be a gadget-lust kind of purchase to me, mainly because it's so specific to its one function. I definitely think you're off base with "it's more than likely that a large segment of the Kindle buyers aren't much at reading". Since you state it's a device that almost no-one has, it doesn't sound like you actually know too many people with one either. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say maybe you do know a couple of especially shallow people who dropped $350 for a device they weren't planning to use. Feel free to cast whatever judgement you wish on them, but I'd ask you not to be too hasty in extending that judgement to the other Kindle buyers, without some data. My own suspicion, entirely unsubstantiated, is that most of the people who actually BUY a Kindle USE it (or if they don't, they still spend a lot of time reading).
post #160 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Isn't that what people said about kids carrying laptops to school and yet Jr. High students use apple laptops every day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Yes. And they're having problems with these programs too.

But at least a laptop is a device that does much more than a book reader. It might be worth the shot. I don't think that parents will want their kids to be carrying a $500 device that just has their books. My daughter didn't mind carrying all that around.

Agreed. And I suspect they're selecting some pretty sturdy laptops. My Kindle 2 is amazingly thin. I don't know how well it would stand up to rough handling. The Kindle DX looks just as thin and bigger. I KNOW how well THAT will stand up to rough handling.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Mac Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Amazon unveils 9.7-inch Kindle DX with focus on education