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Amazon unveils 9.7-inch Kindle DX with focus on education - Page 6

post #201 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Except that the connectivity is just for buying something. You're getting free access to what is basically a shopping network.

That excites you?

What if Apple said that you were getting free 3G service, but it would only go to their iTunes service, and a couple of other sites with something to buy?

Would you have been just as happy about that?

I doubt it.

And the price of the service is being added to the price of the books. Don't doubt that. It's one reason why they cost so much more than paperbacks.

this could possibly open the door to free internet. if companies like Amazon decide to provide their own service for their websites. then more companies will follow suit. then advertising takes over and buys band width as well. could be very good and very bad at the same time.
post #202 of 248
i'm probably beating a dead horse, but the article has nothing remotely to do with apple. yeah i hate to be that guy sometimes.
post #203 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

One need for a book reader is that it accompany you when you go somewhere where you will have time on your hands. My friend began taking his Kindle with him, but over time took it less and less, until he mostly stopped taking it at all.

Just too inconvenient. If it's a computer, and you may need it for that, you take it, but unless you're the type of person to carry a pack around with you all the time, as most people aren't, there's no easy to bring this. You aren't going to carry it all the time. There's not going to be a belt holster for something this size.

The other problem is price. This is simply too expensive for most people. It's like people here saying that a Mac is too expensive. $400 or $500 for a book reader is outrageous. When you couple that to the $10 price for books, its too much. I can buy, and did today buy several books from Barnes & Nobel where each book costs significantly less. I bought 4 pocket novels. The most expensive was $8.09, and the least $6.29. That's with my member discount.

This is why I think it will ultimately fail. While there will be a few people, as we see here, who will have one, most people won't find a need, or use for it.

It's got to do something else that people need, and need enough so that they will bring it with them everywhere they go (well, almost everywhere).

Right now, that's a smartphone. A book reader is just one more program.

Or a computer of some sort if a bigger screen is wanted.

you are right about the price. this this should cost $50 or less. Then people would feel so weird about taking it with them if it were easily replaceable. although i disagree with you about size and convenience. i think Amazon has it right about content. this device should geared towards the big institutions, not the consumer market. I think that's why everyone is so negative about this device.

it's really starting to bother me that everyone on this forum is so negative about something that is going to revolutionize institutions and significantly change how kids learn. I don't think it's Amazon's intent to compete with Apple or smart phones or netbooks. I think it's quite obvious that Amazon is turning it's nose up at things like the iphone. Although, i do think they're crazy if they think students and low-income school kids will be able to afford this without a subsidy. especially if the publishing companies are going to take advantage of the non-used books they can sell for this device.
post #204 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

They could have opened it up, I agree, but Amazon seems to be taking a leaf out of Apple's book to create their preferred total ecosystem - (device, shop, channel, etc.) hence proprietary DRM and a proprietary device for the early adopters. The others don't have access to the whispernet and so break the Amazon "always on" model. If you are hardcore, you probably ditched your Sony for a Kindle anyway.

I know folks that haven't ditched their Sony or iRex for a Kindle. Also Apple's model provided for one leg of the ecosystem to offer decent value ($0.99 songs and no need to buy the whole album).

Amazon wants to make money on both device and content. That's fine but not nearly as likely to catch on.

Quote:
Laptops are heavy, have crap batteries, are awkward to use other than on a desk/table or sitting upright, don't have automated backup ootb, are disruptive to reading (email/chat etc.) and you look like a tool if you try to read one by the pool (and it's even worse if you drop it in there). Laptops are a piss-poor substitute to many major reading situations.

http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/03/02...chable-screen/

For $399 I can live with Linux. I can always look for Reed somewhere.

I'd pay a lot more for OSX (Touch or Mac).
post #205 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

it's really starting to bother me that everyone on this forum is so negative about something that is going to revolutionize institutions and significantly change how kids learn.

Not at $500 a copy. And frankly they are a latecomer to eBooks who's primary problems are price and that eInk is still just "okay" in comparison to paper. Neither of which the Kindle addresses and the sales volumes are still too low for massive investment into eInk technology to improve quickly.
post #206 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireEmblemPride View Post

I can't read a book on a laptop or netbook while I'm on the Tokyo Metro the way I can on the Kindle. I can't lie down on my bed and read from a netbook like I can with a Kindle.

You can with a slate or a convertible. even ignoring the other netbook (not out yet and ARM) there's the Gigabyte m912. A tad pricey but certainly shows that a netbook can be designed to do what you want on the Metro.
post #207 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The problem with the Kindle, and devices like them, it that they are specialized devices in a time when specialized devices are going away.


Amazon is hoping that this high profile device family, I guess we can now call it, will make people think about digital media for reading.

But in a couple of years, the ATOM and ARM will be powerful enough, and need little enough power, for a computer to fit this space, and obsolete a reader.


I just don't think that, long term, a reader as a device, will survive.


computer technology is getting much better, lighter, using less battery power, and that better batteries are coming out to force a dedicated device out of the market.

Uh, what makes you think that? The success of the iPhone and iPod Touch?

The Kindle may not be the best choice today, because of price and lack of content, but there will probably be more and more specialised devices in the future when they have access to more content and are much more affordable. Then we will have less use for general-purpose computers.
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post #208 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by diskimage View Post

Why the 3.3GB, why not 3GB or 4GB?

It's 4 GB, 700 MB is system. :-)
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Marquiz d' Gabber von Gabberaarde

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post #209 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's nice that you criticized my knowledge, but what do you know?

Among other things you don't know that it's more than likely that a large segment of the Kindle buyers aren't much at reading, but rather are much at getting what they think is the hottest, and coolest device around. A device that almost no one has. A device that not too many will be getting.

Sorry you are pissed. I apologize for the tone of my response. However, this is pure supposition on your part - no basis in truth - just your bias about a device you see no need for.

Quote:
If you were paying attention, you would also know that I've been saying that Amazon isn't interested in selling Kindles, but selling books, magazine and newspaper subscriptions etc.

Nice to know we agree - I don't forensically review past posts, I just happened to disagree with your points in this thread. Sorry.

Quote:
Amazing that you know so many people who own one that you can refer to them as "everyone". You must have the biggest concentration of kindle owners outside of Amazon R&D. I notice that with all the rhetoric, you haven't said that YOU own one. Don't bother to do so now, because it won't be believable.

I know a few people with one - I meant "of the people I know, every one who has one loves it" I'm sure you knew that or were just too pissed to consider that meaning. I don't have one since am not much of a book reader.

Quote:
Ah yeah. Nothing new in what you just said, other than some confusion in that you contradict yourself in the same paragraph.
Again, what's the point to all this? I already have been saying that, without the scifi references.

Great - just not in the posts I read. You are pissy aren't you?

Quote:
You really are confused, and confusing. I can't easily figure out what you're trying to say. first you say that they will converge, by evolving, as I've been saying. Then you say they WON'T converge. Then you say they will.

Which is it?

It's pretty obvious. I don't think it will converge with iPhones as you seemed to suggest, and it will eventually with laptops etc. but not in any timeframe which would invalidate the Kindle hardware today.

Quote:
You've said nothing new. In fact, though you don't seem to know it, where you can be understood at least, you haven't said anything I haven't.

I know when you get criticized it is easy to slip into pedantry to try to get back. I was mostly calling BS on your idea that the iPhone was a comparable/replacement platform for the Kindle and hence it wasn't necessary. On the rest, I'm glad we agree. CTFD dude.
post #210 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I think I've said that Amazon might be thinking about moving the Kindle up when the possibility is here.

To me, it doesn't matter who does it. Amazon can do it. I'm not so sure people will want a Linux based model as they seem to be rejecting Linux based netbooks.

But it will be done by someone, perhaps Apple. Maybe the two companies will have a convergence device together. That's legal.

If it's a convergence device, it doesn't have to be 5 ounces. People will accept more. As long as it's under a pound, it will be ok. The less the better of course.

I've not bet against Bezos. I had Amazon stock when they were saying that Amazon couldn't make a profit.

I just see this device as an intermediary between what we've had, and what we will have. I don't know why some people are so upset about that.

we are of a mind here.

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post #211 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabberattack View Post

It's 4 GB, 700 MB is system. :-)


Hehe very nice
post #212 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

my only concern about this would be that to do what kindle is doing in color would be difficult. I have an iPhone and i can't stare at the screen for more than 20 minutes before my eyes start to get all strained. it would be tough to market this as a device for schools and universities on a LCD back-lit screen. It would have to be some kind of colorized version of the "e-Ink" display with no back light.

You must have eye problems, or you can't use your computer for more than a short while either.

Millions of people are apparently reading books on the iPhone/itouch, as Apple has sold a lot more books for them than Amazon and Sony together have sold books for their products.

I get tired about hearing the nonsense. It's no worse reading a book on an iPhone than on a Kindle. In the brightest light the Kindle is much better, in dimmer light, or no light, the iPhone is much better, or the only way to do it.

If you can't figure out how to adjust the background, typeface, and typeface size to suit you on the iPhone, I suggest that you learn.

When the two are put side by side, I can adjust my iPhone, on most reading programs, to look almost EXACTLY the same as the Kindle's screen.

Forget this silliness about backlighting vs front reflection. We can't tell the difference. The eye doesn't know where the light is coming from. It all has to do with the brightness and contrast. The fact that the iPhone screen can be made much brighter and contrastier than the Kindle screen is the difference. If you want a grey background, just set it to that. If you want a tan one, do that.

I really doubt that some people here who say how bad it is to read on an iPhone have actually done so, or have done so without bothering to figure out how to adjust the screen, which is easy to do.
post #213 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

Sorry you are pissed. I apologize for the tone of my response. However, this is pure supposition on your part - no basis in truth - just your bias about a device you see no need for.

You're wrong about that. I see that you have tour bias here, and that it's pretty strong.

I understand that after one spends a lot of money on a device they have some feeling that they have to defend that purchase, exp. if it's something so limited in aspect. But you don't understand my position apparently.

Quote:
Nice to know we agree - I don't forensically review past posts, I just happened to disagree with your points in this thread. Sorry.

Without making some effort to read past posts in the same thread, something that too few people do, you will argue a point that you shouldn't have to respond to at all.

Quote:
I know a few people with one - I meant "of the people I know, every one who has one loves it" I'm sure you knew that or were just too pissed to consider that meaning. I don't have one since am not much of a book reader.

No, I'm not "pissed", just confused at your post. When you explicitly say that "everyone" I know who has one, you are telling us that there are a number of people you know who have one. don't leave it up to us to interpret your meaning, write what you mean.

If you don't have one, then how much have you used one that one of your friends does have. Otherwise, you're just working from hearsay.

Quote:
Great - just not in the posts I read. You are pissy aren't you?

Only at people who write poorly thought out posts, and are too lazy to read further back to see what's being said before responding.

Quote:
It's pretty obvious. I don't think it will converge with iPhones as you seemed to suggest, and it will eventually with laptops etc. but not in any timeframe which would invalidate the Kindle hardware today.

This again goes back to reading previous posts. I never once said that the Kindle, or other book reader would converge with the iPhone, though the iPhone is a good reading device now.

All along, I've been saying that book readers would converge with portable computers, possibly netbooks, or other lighter models which we'll see in the next year or two. I've also said that Amazon might evolve the Kindle to become a portable computer when technology allows it.

See why you think I'm being pissy? You get much of what I say wrong, because you're just making unfounded assumptions about it instead of reading it.

Quote:
I know when you get criticized it is easy to slip into pedantry to try to get back. I was mostly calling BS on your idea that the iPhone was a comparable/replacement platform for the Kindle and hence it wasn't necessary. On the rest, I'm glad we agree. CTFD dude.

I'm stating the facts as they are. You're writing poorly. When you don't do that, then it will be better, dude.
post #214 of 248
Finally!

I think this is the Kindle that does it for me.
The price is right, too.

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post #215 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Who cares? The publishers care. If they find that their textbooks aren't selling, or that newspaper subscriptions aren't selling, or magazines, they will stop doing it.

When you consider that Apple has, by now, sold about 40 million iPhones/itouch's, many of which are still in use, and Amazon, possibly half a million Kindles, well, thats a pretty big gap. If only 10% of Apple's customers are reading books on the devices, that's almost 4 million. It's about ten times the size of the Kindles audience.

Apple's selling devices much faster than Amazon ever will, so the lead just piles up.

We've read reports that book sales from the app store are much larger than all the books sold on either Amazon or Sony's platforms put together. And that's despite Apple having a small fraction of the books either of the others have. What happens as Apple's book "supply" increases significantly?

What happens when Apple's got 50 million devices out there? 80 million? 100 million?

What happens if Amazon releases its program for more devices including netbooks?

I think that the Kindle is dead meat. It may take a year or two until we see that happening.

melgross: if you're going to come out as the all-knowledgeable guru of everything kindle/amazon/publishing companies/market analysis you'd better stop calling the iPod Touch the iTouch. It's obvious you have a huge ego and i think most of this forum would like you to keep that in check.
post #216 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

melgross: if you're going to come out as the all-knowledgeable guru of everything kindle/amazon/publishing companies/market analysis you'd better stop calling the iPod Touch the iTouch. It's obvious you have a huge ego and i think most of this forum would like you to keep that in check.

It's a short hand, nothing more. Calling it a Touch would work, too, but iTouch is unmistakable. He could refer to it as a Touch but that is getting most obscure as their product named as such and the oft wished for item on these forums is the Mac Touch tablet. We also refer to the family of iPods and iPhones as iDevices for brevity sake.
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post #217 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You must have eye problems, or you can't use your computer for more than a short while either.

Millions of people are apparently reading books on the iPhone/itouch, as Apple has sold a lot more books for them than Amazon and Sony together have sold books for their products.

I get tired about hearing the nonsense. It's no worse reading a book on an iPhone than on a Kindle. In the brightest light the Kindle is much better, in dimmer light, or no light, the iPhone is much better, or the only way to do it.

If you can't figure out how to adjust the background, typeface, and typeface size to suit you on the iPhone, I suggest that you learn.

When the two are put side by side, I can adjust my iPhone, on most reading programs, to look almost EXACTLY the same as the Kindle's screen.


I really doubt that some people here who say how bad it is to read on an iPhone have actually done so, or have done so without bothering to figure out how to adjust the screen, which is easy to do.

your attitude on this forum is nonsense...
There is a huge difference from reading something on e-Ink compared to LCD. I just proves to me that you haven't tried it yourself. And, reading an ebook on a LCD 3.5" display vs. a 6" E-Ink very different, I've used both.

Sure you can change the font size and contrast ratio on the iPhone, but there's more to it than that IMHO. Sure that may be my opinion but i don't like my opinion being called "nonsense" this is America in an open forum for crying out loud.
post #218 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

melgross: if you're going to come out as the all-knowledgeable guru of everything kindle/amazon/publishing companies/market analysis you'd better stop calling the iPod Touch the iTouch. It's obvious you have a huge ego and i think most of this forum would like you to keep that in check.

Don't get smarmy. We all call it the iTouch. Some even just call it the Touch. Sometimes we even just say the iT. It's not as though we don't all know what it is. It's just saving some typing. Of course, now that I've had to type all this, I guess it didn't.

I hate to have to tell you, but most people here have big egos. Including you.

If you think that what I say is incorrect, then show some proof of that. That's not hard, is it?

There was nothing in that post that brought up your ire that wasn't either true, or a fair guess about what will happen.

Earlier, you were agreeing with me. Is it just when you don't that you think I have a big ego?

Why don't you just provide your own numbers to contradict my post instead?

That would have been the better route.
post #219 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's nice that you criticized my knowledge, but what do you know?

Among other things you don't know that it's more than likely that a large segment of the Kindle buyers aren't much at reading, but rather are much at getting what they think is the hottest, and coolest device around. A device that almost no one has. A device that not too many will be getting.

If you were paying attention, you would also know that I've been saying that Amazon isn't interested in selling Kindles, but selling books, magazine and newspaper subscriptions etc.

Amazing that you know so many people who own one that you can refer to them as "everyone". You must have the biggest concentration of kindle owners outside of Amazon R&D. I notice that with all the rhetoric, you haven't said that YOU own one. Don't bother to do so now, because it won't be believable.



Ah yeah. Nothing new in what you just said, other than some confusion in that you contradict youself in the same paragraph.



Again, what's the point to all this? I already have been saying that, without the scifi references.



You really are confused, and confusing. I can't easily figure out what you're trying to say. first you say that they will converge, by evolving, as I've been saying. Then you say they WON'T converge. Then you say they will.

Which is it?

You've said nothing new. In fact, though you don't seem to know it, where you can be understood at least, you haven't said anything I haven't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Don't get smarmy. We all call it the iTouch. Some even just call it the Touch. Sometimes we even just say the iT. It's not as though we don't all know what it is. It's just saving some typing. Of course, now that I've had to type all this, I guess it didn't.

I hate to have to tell you, but most people here have big egos. Including you.

If you think that what I say is incorrect, then show some proof of that. That's not hard, is it?

There was nothing in that post that brought up your ire that wasn't either true, or a fair guess about what will happen.

Earlier, you were agreeing with me. Is it just when you don't that you think I have a big ego?

Why don't you just provide your own numbers to contradict my post instead?

That would have been the better route.

I agreed with you on one point maybe others. This isn't about who's right and who's wrong. I take your numbers at face value if you don't sight the source. And it's not even about that either. Just because people have opinions doesn't meant that they're not any more right or wrong than you are. The debate is about treating people ideas with respect and not calling them nonsense, or dismissing other's thoughts because you seem to think you were the first to make any given statement.
post #220 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

your attitude on this forum is nonsense...
There is a huge difference from reading something on e-Ink compared to LCD. I just proves to me that you haven't tried it yourself. And, reading an ebook on a LCD 3.5" display vs. a 6" E-Ink very different, I've used both.

Sure you can change the font size and contrast ratio on the iPhone, but there's more to it than that IMHO. Sure that may be my opinion but i don't like my opinion being called "nonsense" this is America in an open forum for crying out loud.

Oh please. I have used it as I've said, but I doubt that you have used the iPhone much. If you can't figure out how to do it right, then that's your problem.

If YOU like the I-ink that's fine. I don't want to dissuade you, but you're simply wrong about it being better for everyone else. It's not. The developers of the product have been under massive criticism over the lack of contrast, slow speed, and low grey level support. They try to convince that the shortcomings are actually good.

It's not. It's only better in very bright light. I'm not the only one here to have stated that.

Yes, it is an open forum, and we can say whatever we think is correct, just as you are doing.

But there were a number of studies in past years that showed the so called advantage of reflected light to be incorrect. If I can find one online, I'll post a link later. In fact, in very bright light, paper magazines and books with really white pages are hard to read, though they are much better in dimmer light.

So, IYHO, what are those other factors that you wee alluding to?
post #221 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

I agreed with you on one point maybe others. This isn't about who's right and who's wrong. I take your numbers at face value if you don't sight the source. And it's not even about that either. Just because people have opinions doesn't meant that they're not any more right or wrong than you are. The debate is about treating people ideas with respect and not calling them nonsense, or dismissing other's thoughts because you seem to think you were the first to make any given statement.

Not everything is an opinion. There are facts as well. Simply because not everyone knows those facts, or doesn't want to know them if they contradict what they want to think, doesn't make them any less true.

I'm not calling PEOPLE nonsense. But I'm tired of hearing the same old wives tales over and again. Calling something nonsence is very mild. Pehaps you're not here for long, but if you were, you would read far worse things than that.

And you were being pretty petty about the iTouch. Possibly you noticed that?

It's also common courtesy to read back a bit before posting something that strongly contradicts something that's been said. When the poster writes a rambling post that confusing, it doesn't make it any better. When that post also happens to be saying some of the same things, but is still contradicting, then it should be criticized.
post #222 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

I agreed with you on one point maybe others. This isn't about who's right and who's wrong. I take your numbers at face value if you don't sight the source. And it's not even about that either. Just because people have opinions doesn't meant that they're not any more right or wrong than you are. The debate is about treating people ideas with respect and not calling them nonsense, or dismissing other's thoughts because you seem to think you were the first to make any given statement.

"And iPhone is the obvious future of e-book publishing because it has attained the kind of critical mass; the installed base, needed to produce significant sales. There are over 15 million iPhones and ten percent of them already have e-book readers on them. Compare that to the putative numbers for the Kindle and the Sony Reader. Then compare the price and the additional functionality and you see that the market advantage of IPhone will continue to dominate this new market."

One Author's Prospective
post #223 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

"And iPhone is the obvious future of e-book publishing because it has attained the kind of critical mass; the installed base, needed to produce significant sales. There are over 15 million iPhones and ten percent of them already have e-book readers on them. Compare that to the putative numbers for the Kindle and the Sony Reader. Then compare the price and the additional functionality and you see that the market advantage of IPhone will continue to dominate this new market."

One Author's Prospective

Yeah, I'm a member of Jerry's site.
post #224 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Except that the 3G is devoted to your buying from Amazon. If Apple did that with the 3G on the iPhone, people would have screamed.

This isn't a real 3G service. It's just a buying service. Let's get this right. You're paying for it when you buy books, and other content from them. It's part of the price of that content. It ain't free!

Yeahso? The same is true with my iPhone but I don't complain there. In fact it's more true with the iPhone because the service is MUCH more expensive then the cost of books over 2 years. You don't get anything tangible with the iPhone except airtime. At least with the Kindle the cost of the service + book yields something tangible.

Quote:
Nonsense! The iPhone has about the same rez as the Kindle. It's 160 ppi. Don't tell us that you can see the difference between 160 and 167 ppi.

I never said it was just about rez. For one the iPhone has a smaller-make that MUCH smaller-screen. Anybody with a brain can see thathave you ever even seen the Kindle in person?

Quote:
Nobody pinches or squeezes when reading books on the iPhone. You scroll or turn a page, and it happens much faster than the sluggish Kindle.

You HAVE to pinch and squeeze if you need to see something that has a poorly chosen typeface (like half the Web sites out there). A paperback is around 5-6 inches, about the same size as the Kindle. You'll spend a LOT more time pinching and squeezing and scrolling on the iPhone then the Kindle. Yes its a little slow but not that slow, but that's a lot better the scrolling every 10 seconds.

Quote:
I don't think you have an iPhone at all from your description of it.

What a dumbass comment. I don't really care what you think, especially since you seem to just want to deride anybody that doesn't agree, based on your other posts here.


Quote:
The battery life is the only teur thing you've said here.

But I can read a book for several hours without an problem. You really haven't used the iPhone for this. I've read for as long as 4 hours a day on the phone, and it was still working fine.[/QUOTE]
You cannot read a book for several hours on my iPhone. Mine is already dying, and I know several other people whose batteries have noticeably started to die more quickly. I took it to the Apple store, and they admitted this will happen over time. Last time I watched a movie on my phone for 2 hours, it was at 50% when the movie finished (not to mention my eyes felt like they were going to explode). If I leave my iPhone unplugged overnight, which happens when I'm on the road and don't want to carry around my cable, its battery is at 60% or so. And like I said it's not that it will die after reading a book for 4 hours, I just don't want it to die in the middle of an important phone conversationsome of us actually use our iPhone as a phone so when you drain 40-50% of the battery just "reading" on it, that limits the amount of time you can spend on the phone.
post #225 of 248
Yikes! Amazon wants 70% from newspapers.

http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419...terms-onerous/
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post #226 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by skittlebrau79 View Post

Yeah…so? The same is true with my iPhone but I don't complain there. In fact it's more true with the iPhone because the service is MUCH more expensive then the cost of books over 2 years. You don't get anything tangible with the iPhone except airtime. At least with the Kindle the cost of the service + book yields something tangible.

"Yeah...so?" What kind of response is that?

the AT&T 3G srvice is like all other high speed data services. It doesn't limit you to anything. The Kindle's isn't even a real service. It's just a store link. It seems nice that you are getting it, but it's minimal at best.

Don't make that comparison, it doesn't exist.

If you add the cost of the "tangible" service you're getting, books, then it costs far more for what you are getting, because that's all you are getting. Once you finish reading the book, then what? You can't lend it to someone without lending the entire device. You can't sell it, because you're not allowed to. You can't even give it away without giving the entire Kindle away with it. So what great value is that? I can buy the same books at Barnes & Noble for much less.

By the way, an electronic book isn't tangible property because you don't own it.

Quote:
I never said it was just about rez. For one the iPhone has a smaller-make that MUCH smaller-screen. Anybody with a brain can see that—have you ever even seen the Kindle in person?

Another person who doesn't bother to read posts.

Quote:
You HAVE to pinch and squeeze if you need to see something that has a poorly chosen typeface (like half the Web sites out there). A paperback is around 5-6 inches, about the same size as the Kindle. You'll spend a LOT more time pinching and squeezing and scrolling on the iPhone then the Kindle. Yes its a little slow but not that slow, but that's a lot better the scrolling every 10 seconds.

You were talking about reading books, not surfing the web, which you can't do with the Kindle anyway.

The Kindle is much slower when reading books, which, again, is what you were talking about, and so was I.

Quote:
What a dumbass comment. I don't really care what you think, especially since you seem to just want to deride anybody that doesn't agree, based on your other posts here.

You're talking about being a dumbass?

Some of you Kindle people think you've found the perfect device, and that you're special because of it. Get over it.


Quote:
But I can read a book for several hours without an problem. You really haven't used the iPhone for this. I've read for as long as 4 hours a day on the phone, and it was still working fine.

You cannot read a book for several hours on my iPhone. Mine is already dying, and I know several other people whose batteries have noticeably started to die more quickly. I took it to the Apple store, and they admitted this will happen over time. Last time I watched a movie on my phone for 2 hours, it was at 50% when the movie finished (not to mention my eyes felt like they were going to explode). If I leave my iPhone unplugged overnight, which happens when I'm on the road and don't want to carry around my cable, its battery is at 60% or so. And like I said it's not that it will die after reading a book for 4 hours, I just don't want it to die in the middle of an important phone conversation…some of us actually use our iPhone as a phone so when you drain 40-50% of the battery just "reading" on it, that limits the amount of time you can spend on the phone.[/QUOTE]



You see wiseguy, now you're telling me what I haven't done. not so different, is it?

I've read several dozen books on my iPhone, and I've read for several hours at a time. But I don't read for five hours straight. The longest has been four hours, and yes, it works very well for that amount of time. I just turn WiFi off since it isn't being used anyway, and the screen isn't at the highest brightness. It's just fine.

I always plug all my electronic devices in every night. It's no big deal. It only takes about 90 minutes to recharge.

We all use our devices differently. I don't spend several hours talking on the phone every day. Nor do I read from it for several hours each day. I still buy books. I just bought four a couple of days ago. This is just another method to do what I've been doing since I was a kid.

Someday, when all books, magazines, etc are available on digital devices, that will change. But now, most books are not, esp. new ones.
post #227 of 248
melgross,

Just a personal observation, take it for what it's worth (which is practically nothing).

I've been following this thread out of personal amusement just to see the logic used in the debate. Sometimes it seems like Spock vs. Spongebob Squarepants. I would surmise that most people here (including myself) don't really care as much about the topic at hand as they do the debate itself. Who really cares that deeply about any gadget? Whether we admit it or not, most of these lengthy threads exist because we enjoy the challenge of mental sparring—a verbal chess game.

So far, I personally see nothing you've said to be logically incorrect (my opinion). The frustration level of those you've been "arguing" with has steadily risen. The debate between two opinionated people (everyone here including myself is opinionated by nature—that's why we bother to post) in which one party bases their case on fact and reason, and the other on fact and emotion, will continue possibly until either party's fingers begin to bleed.

I think it's human nature for people who base their decision making on emotion to have more of themselves invested in their opinion then people who base their decision making process in the absence of emotion. I can only guess this is because the former is internalizing the debate, while the latter is concentrating on the external. By the way, there is nothing wrong with buying something based on emotion (unless the purchase is somehow harmful). It's no sin to buy something you can afford with the reason you want it simply being "you feel like it."

In short, it's difficult to have a rational debate based on emotion vs. reason—I doubt this is news to you (you seem to be in the "reason" category).

Save your breath (or more accurately your fingers), it's a fools errand. Unless of course, you simply enjoy the challenge.
post #228 of 248
as long as kindle has been out i have never seen anyone using it, never, people read books or from their iphone
can you imagine trying to use this thing on the beach?
people want a convergence device, now if kindle could be used as a phone but
this is a solution looking for a problem

so what are the demographics of this thing, what problem is it really solving, making better, define its market target
how is it to improve the experience of reading
and for that price why not a cheapo netbook, or just carry a paperback

now, if several newspapers subsidized this and auto loaded todays newspaper then maybe i could see a sliver of light for this thing
for me its like those preloaded memory cards with music oh yea "slotradio",
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post #229 of 248
This thing seems to big to be even practical

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iPhone, iPod
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post #230 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Yikes! Amazon wants 70% from newspapers.

http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419...terms-onerous/

If it's 70% then Hearst will never buy in and will be a competitor. Geez, talk about overreaching BEFORE you have a lock on the market.

"I get 30 percent and they get the right to license my content to any portable device—not just ones made by Amazon? That, to me, is not a model. Maybe what Plastic Logic comes up with or what Hearst comes up with, might provide a good model but today Kindles are less than 1 percent penetration in the U.S. market."

Way to open the door for Apple who makes money selling devices and not content so would be happy to go 70-30 in the newpaper's favor.
post #231 of 248
University of Missouri is implementing a soft requirement for students to get either an iPhone or iPod Touch. I wonder when universities will require students to get Kindles.
http://www.macworld.com/article/1405...?lsrc=rss_main
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #232 of 248
University of Missouri is implementing a soft requirement for students to get either an iPhone or iPod Touch. I wonder when universities will require students to get Kindles.
http://www.macworld.com/article/1405...?lsrc=rss_main
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #233 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhomerun View Post

i'm probably beating a dead horse, but the article has nothing remotely to do with apple. yeah i hate to be that guy sometimes.

Actually it does have a lot to do about Apple.

Everybody knows that the Apple tablet is coming and it is interesting to try to speculate what it might be like based on the kindle dx and the effects that devices like these will have on other things such as network technology and media sources.
As well as, what the Apple product will be like based on the hardware specs of the kindle and how an Apple device will most likely trounce the kindle with superior specs.

Plus a whole bunch of stuff that we haven't even considered yet.
post #234 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

melgross,

Just a personal observation, take it for what it's worth (which is practically nothing).

I've been following this thread out of personal amusement just to see the logic used in the debate. Sometimes it seems like Spock vs. Spongebob Squarepants. I would surmise that most people here (including myself) don't really care as much about the topic at hand as they do the debate itself. Who really cares that deeply about any gadget? Whether we admit it or not, most of these lengthy threads exist because we enjoy the challenge of mental sparringa verbal chess game.

So far, I personally see nothing you've said to be logically incorrect (my opinion). The frustration level of those you've been "arguing" with has steadily risen. The debate between two opinionated people (everyone here including myself is opinionated by naturethat's why we bother to post) in which one party bases their case on fact and reason, and the other on fact and emotion, will continue possibly until either party's fingers begin to bleed.

I think it's human nature for people who base their decision making on emotion to have more of themselves invested in their opinion then people who base their decision making process in the absence of emotion. I can only guess this is because the former is internalizing the debate, while the latter is concentrating on the external. By the way, there is nothing wrong with buying something based on emotion (unless the purchase is somehow harmful). It's no sin to buy something you can afford with the reason you want it simply being "you feel like it."

In short, it's difficult to have a rational debate based on emotion vs. reasonI doubt this is news to you (you seem to be in the "reason" category).

Save your breath (or more accurately your fingers), it's a fools errand. Unless of course, you simply enjoy the challenge.

I agree with that. All of us base opinions on emotion as well as logic. The degree to which the balance is weighted is where we differ often.

As I've said, I have nothing against the kindle as it stands now.
post #235 of 248
i thought of a unique use of this large kindle
music during a concert, have a BT button to change music sheets easier than paper and the conductor can BT it to each member
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post #236 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

i thought of a unique use of this large kindle
music during a concert, have a BT button to change music sheets easier than paper and the conductor can BT it to each member

It would have to be bigger than that. This is only 9.7" diagonal. An 8/5 x 11 sheet of paper is almost 14" diagonal.


It might not be bright enough for many venues.
post #237 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by f00fighters View Post

I don't get it. Who buys these? What's the demographic? The technology isn't bad; I get it, but really... $489/$359? to read on a e-ink, or whatever it is in black & white. If it were a $100, I'd consider getting one for my dad.

I am old enough to remember the very same question that f00fighters has asked when computers were first introduced. Now we find it very difficult to be without them. Computer monitors were once b&w and we paid $$$$. I suspect for college people to really buy them, the Kindle would have to go to a color format. On the other hand, thinking how difficult it was to haul around my college text books all over campus, I might gladly trade that experience for a gadget that weighs very little comparatively. Also, textbooks cost around $150-200 these days. Take 3 courses and we are talking $600. If one can pay around $50-75 for the books and buy the Kindle. It would easily pay for itself for the rest of one's college curriculum. I think the college demographic will be the best market for this gadget if the book price is reasonable.

One of the reasons for the high price is that you can connect to download books at any time, much like an aircard that costs around $65-70 per month for a laptop to be versatile. I thank amazon for not offering, yet another electronic gadget, we have to pay a monthly fee for data!

I am a 48 y/o female. Yes, I will be buying one. I'm an avid reader and also buy many self-help books. It would be nice to have them all in one place that could be easily referred to with a few clicks and where I could annotate and highlight. I really have a hard time writing and highlighting in my bound books.
post #238 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by annie003 View Post

I am old enough to remember the very same question that f00fighters has asked when computers were first introduced. Now we find it very difficult to be without them. Computer monitors were once b&w and we paid $$$$. I suspect for college people to really buy them, the Kindle would have to go to a color format. On the other hand, thinking how difficult it was to haul around my college text books all over campus, I might gladly trade that experience for a gadget that weighs very little comparatively. Also, textbooks cost around $150-200 these days. Take 3 courses and we are talking $600. If one can pay around $50-75 for the books and buy the Kindle. It would easily pay for itself for the rest of one's college curriculum. I think the college demographic will be the best market for this gadget if the book price is reasonable.

One of the reasons for the high price is that you can connect to download books at any time, much like an aircard that costs around $65-70 per month for a laptop to be versatile. I thank amazon for not offering, yet another electronic gadget, we have to pay a monthly fee for data!

I am a 48 y/o female. Yes, I will be buying one. I'm an avid reader and also buy many self-help books. It would be nice to have them all in one place that could be easily referred to with a few clicks and where I could annotate and highlight. I really have a hard time writing and highlighting in my bound books.

I've been seeing, not just in your post, but everywhere, a lot of ifs involved with this being useful.

There is too much we don't yet know on the textbook front. While most of the main textbook companies have supposedly signed on, just a relatively few of their books will be available. not enough for the broad student population thought to be targets for this device. We also don't know the pricing of most textbooks. The companies have pointedly avoided answering that question so far.

What happens to any notes taken on this? Are they lost if the device is broken or lost (stolen)?

As far as the "free" 3g service, well, it's just a conduit to their store. not much of a service at all. And don't think you're not paying for it. You are. It's subsumed in the price of their offerings.
post #239 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

i thought of a unique use of this large kindle
music during a concert, have a BT button to change music sheets easier than paper and the conductor can BT it to each member

Wow, that would be great. Plus, you could get rid of all those big clunky music stands and have ones with a smaller footprint. On the other hand, what if there was a technical problem?
post #240 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I've been seeing, not just in your post, but everywhere, a lot of ifs involved with this being useful.

There is too much we don't yet know on the textbook front. While most of the main textbook companies have supposedly signed on, just a relatively few of their books will be available. not enough for the broad student population thought to be targets for this device. We also don't know the pricing of most textbooks. The companies have pointedly avoided answering that question so far.

What happens to any notes taken on this? Are they lost if the device is broken or lost (stolen)?

As far as the "free" 3g service, well, it's just a conduit to their store. not much of a service at all. And don't think you're not paying for it. You are. It's subsumed in the price of their offerings.

There were a lot of "ifs" with the first computers too. The first ones just blinked at you. It wasn't until software companies wrote useful code for the non-programmers that the computer became useful. The rest, as they say, is history. New technology always has the unknown factor. In reading historical accounts of the landline telephone, it was not embraced either. Adults could not understand why they needed a telephone, same with computers, same with insert any new technology. However, like any new technological device, the teenage generation always finds a use for it.

Of course, you are paying for the 3G service in other ways. However, if you don't buy you don't pay, which was really my point about thanking amazon for not having a subscription based platform. If it only goes to amazon, that's okay by me, that is where the books can be bought. No different than Microsoft cornering the market by making PC makers put their software on their machines.

As far as the textbook companies, the companies that have signed on have 60% of the market share. I was looking at a few of my textbooks on my bookshelf and all 5 of them would have been offered. You are correct, no one has mentioned the price. I can assure you if it's not reasonable, students won't buy. It would be in the best interest, however, for publishers to play nice. As it stands now, the hierarchy of purchasing textbooks is that students buy 1st edition books for $$$. Then the book goes down the line for many semesters without any more money going to authors, publishers, etc. With the Kindle, one would have to purchase the book every time.

Let's say a textbook is used for 4 years including summer courses-theoretically, 16 semesters. Currently, the price for a hardbound book is $200 with the authors and publishers only getting their cut one time, we'll say 5%, $10. By offering it through Kindle at a price of $40 and receiving 5% for 16 semesters, their share would be $32. The publishers could even make a deal with the colleges such as, if 60% of your books are from us, we will underwrite the costs of a Kindle for each student. So you see, the possibilities are endless with education.

As for annotations, I'm guessing you would lose them. Perhaps that would be something for the Kindle developers to address in Kindle 3 along with a color monitor!
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