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Amazon unveils 9.7-inch Kindle DX with focus on education - Page 2

post #41 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurp13 View Post

I have owned a Kindle (1stG) since July 2008. I love it. I take it everywhere. I subscribe to the LA Times on it.

My experience is that the people that think the Kindle is stupid are largely people that haven't used it. I absolutely love reading books and the newspaper on it.

First, books... It's lighter than most paperbacks and easier to hold. Lying down, I can hold it with one hand easily for an hour or longer. Without the cover it's even lighter! Sitting at a table, I can eat and read no problem. I no longer have to prop the book open with some heavy object. And, I turn the page with a pinky finger if I like.

I can carry multiple books with me and read them any time. Personally, I'm usually reading at least two books at a given time. One for fun and one for professional development. So, it's awesome to be able to carry those, plus the newspaper in one small package.

I will admit that a lot of times I see a newspaper story that I read on Digg or Newsvine already. But, usually, the Times goes into more depth. There are lots of stories in the Times that I don't find on the web. I have noticed that I read the paper differently than I read the web. I like getting the paper on my Kindle. Personally, I have always read the newspaper in a linear fashion so the formatting on the Kindle doesn't bother. The only thing I wish was that there was a two or three sentence summary of the article in the article view. That way I could easily skip over stories I'm not interested in.

I love that I don't have to feel guilty about tossing the newspaper in the trash/recycling when I'm done with it. Kindles don't kill trees!

I would suggest that people who don't think the Kindle is a really great device might not understand what it's used for and it's advantages because the haven't used on. Kindles are not really for everyone. They are for people that like to read. If you don't like reading books and newspapers and magazines, you will likely not want to spend your money on a Kindle. I'm so happy I have one and I will likely upgrade on the color screens. I like the large format one for textbooks. Anyone that doesn't realize how amazing that is has probably not been to college. If you carry your laptop to class, you are probably taking notes on it. Do you really want to be tabbing back and forth between a pdf and your word processor? Please. Imagine having your textbook open in front of you in a small form factor that doesn't have physical pages you either have to hold down or turn (just button presses!).

Oh, and you can highlight and make notes on the Kindle. The notes are bookmarked and stored. I don't do that, but I know you can.

One really overlooked feature... the dictionary on the Kindle. You can look up a word right in the middle of reading. It's way better than it sounds. People gloss over that all the time and I'm not sure why. I was always too lazy to look up words, I just would guess from context. No more guessing! And, you learn more.

Battery life: because of the eInk, the battery last a really long time. Turn off the whispernet and it will last days without a charge. Laptops last a few hours at best.

I can do all of that and so much more on my iphone. Only difference is battery life.
post #42 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't see how this is going to help. Papers will sell this at a lower cost to those who are willing to pay for a long term subscription. What does that mean? Three years? Five years?

We subscribe the the NY Times and the WSJ, but for one year at a time. I subscribe to magazines for three years at a time, but magazine subscriptions are so very much cheaper.

The WSJ subscription costs us $300 a year, and the NY Times, which we pay in two installments, costs $500 for a year, including the Sunday Times edition.

That's a lot of money.

I think the electronic versions are (or will be) much less expensive. The publishing costs
are much lower with no paper, no newsstands, many fewer union employees, etc.
post #43 of 248
My wife has the Kindle 2 and it is very nice. Amazon has taken some cues from Apple and have a hit on their hands. They went from book store to wireless delivery system that is easy to use and read. Apple went from iPod to iTunes to deliver content to their users. I want a DX. For Apple to compete, iTunes would have to add books and periodicals to their offerings. Amazon has a substantial lead. And, wispersync is so much better then that crappy AT&T 3G. I agree with others that it is a shame that Apple did not make a deal with Sprint or Verizon. I love my iPhone but hate AT&T. Before Apple looks into a e-reader, I want them to look into either improving AT&T service or getting another provider.
post #44 of 248
You're right.

Sorry had to finally register to say that.

Sorry for my bad english and the typos, i'm not native english speaking.

But here are my thoughts:

The future will be color, handy device, very thin, maybe about 10", maybe aluminum/carbon-fibre, OLED, and all the functionality of the iPhone / iPod-Touch.

My guess is that Apple's R&D hasn't been sleeping all these years. It was very obvious that something like this would be important.

Maybe we'll have to wait for one or two years.

But there will be definitely something better than the Kindle.

what do you think?
post #45 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

I can do all of that and so much more on my iphone. Only difference is battery life.

Screen size is another big difference. Not everyone wants a robust A/V media player or access to 40k apps or any of the other things that the iPhone/Touch, or even a notebook, offers. Amazon seems to be targeting heavy print readers who don't care about being tied to the internet with emails and forums and websites all the time. This device doesn't fit my needs and the market seems way too small for Apple to care about, but I do think the device the device works for its intended market. I bought my 10yo nephew the Sony PRS-700BC Reader Digital Book for Christmas. He's a heavy reader so anything to encourage that is worth the expense, IMO. He didn't take to it immediately but now he plans ahead and stores countless books on them. He'll be gone all summer so this will come in very handy. It's good that we different products for different needs.
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post #46 of 248
I am 70 years old but have used computers as a pharmacist since the mid 70'. I think the larger Kindle DX is a great idea; however, it is too expensive for me. Like most electronic items they start out expensive and drop in price with acceptance. I was burned by buying a Sony Betamax in 1978.
post #47 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

I can do all of that and so much more on my iphone. Only difference is battery life.

That is so obnoxious.
How do you view a 9.7" image without scolling or expanding your fingers on your iPhone?
post #48 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by umijin View Post

For texts in my fields (Biology & Chemistry), color illustrations and diagrams are critical to understanding the material. Grayscale isn't going to cut it.

And yes, I don't care that the technology isn't there yet for color e-paper. This kindle isn't very useful for my purposes and others without color.

That was my very first thought when seeing this! Color in this day and age is critical for photos, diagrams charts, illustrations, etc.

Having said that, I do applaud Amazon and Apple....anything we can do to get the costs down of textbooks and save trees is welcome!

I know I will prefer Apple's interpretation (when it comes) over Amazon's current iteration even though it will undoubtably be more expensive.
post #49 of 248
More junk for the government agencies to purchase with taxpayer dollars. Wait and watch a public school near you will be asking for 1.5 million for Kindles. How about some paperback textbooks, but then Houghton Mifflin would have a cardiac.
post #50 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoshop59 View Post

More junk for the government agencies to purchase with taxpayer dollars. Wait and watch a public school near you will be asking for 1.5 million for Kindles. How about some paperback textbooks, but then Houghton Mifflin would have a cardiac.

Junk? And when they bought white MacBooks and eMacs that was different- right?
post #51 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Junk? And when they bought white MacBooks and eMacs that was different- right?

Well, I don't think that there was an alternative method of getting online and becoming computer literate. But we do have a lot of books already in print, recyclable and they DON'T REQUIRE electricity to run.

Show me the cost savings, show me the energy savings... but PLEASE we don't need it because it's DIFFERENT.
post #52 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

I can do all of that and so much more on my iphone. Only difference is battery life.

No you can't. I know you, and most other people here like to diss almost all non-Apple gear, but really, the Kindle is nothing like anything Apple has and in my opinion, in its own right, the Kindle is awesome. The Kindle DX is even better and when / if it gets color it will be even more amazing. If you read only on the bus or train on your way to work, or whatever, there is no need for a Kindle, the iPhone / Touch will do. But if you are a voracious reader, and there are many of them about - the kindle is superior by a large margin. Primarily because of the screen, but also because of the ability to access Amazon, read reviews, preview chapters, quick downloads, etc etc. Combine that with the ability to read newspapers, and when color arrives, surf the net and you have a really cool device. Now if we only could get the damn thing in Canada, there would be at least one in my house.
post #53 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't think people who read newspapers are such a small group. The problems newspapers are having are related more to the drop in advertising, than dropping readership, though that has declined.

You're right in that I probably overstated that a tad, but I was careful to say "get their news from" newspapers, not "read newspapers" even though I definitely implied "readership." Also, these kinds of things would clearly vary from area to area, and country to country as well so your mileage may vary as they say.

I would argue that while lots of people may still read newspapers, that in most cases it's neither the main source, nor the first source for news in that group. What I see in my area is that almost everyone has switched to the "free" newspapers, which are now handed out at every bus, train, and transit station. You actually have to dodge around these idiots handing out the papers and perhaps throw a few karate chops just to make it to the bus most days.

If the readers had to pay for the paper, only something like one in a hundred would do so IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

... We subscribe the the NY Times and the WSJ, but for one year at a time. I subscribe to magazines for three years at a time, but magazine subscriptions are so very much cheaper. ...

It certainly makes a difference where you live in that if I lived in New York I might be tempted to buy the paper simply because it's a better paper. The two main "pay for" papers in my town are horrible rags that are almost the same format and mostly the same information as the free papers.

I would still argue that you are in a minority in spending so much money per year for newspapers and magazine subscriptions. Other than a single obscure and very unique magazine that I get from the UK (because it's the only source of that information), I haven't bought or read a magazine in at least 15 years, and I'm a huge reader with a vast book collection etc. so it's not like I fill up my time by watching TV or something.

I think the newspapers did this to themselves to a degree in that the only real reason to pay for a paper over getting the news for free on the internet, is the analysis, not the news itself. The news The NY Times and the WSJ are some of the best traditional news sources for that reason.

What I see is that the majority of TV and newspaper news outlets have been moving more and more into the entertainment realm over the last couple of decades and backing away from any kind of editorial positions or analysis of the news. Now that this same news can be had on the net for free, they are up against the wall because (WSJ and NYT excluded) they don't really offer anything that the consumer can't get for free on the internet.
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post #54 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoshop59 View Post

Well, I don't think that there was an alternative method of getting online and becoming computer literate. But we do have a lot of books already in print, recyclable and they DON'T REQUIRE electricity to run.

Show me the cost savings, show me the energy savings... but PLEASE we don't need it because it's DIFFERENT.

You are kidding right? You honestly can't see how this would save paper? Cost the cost of producttion in printing costs, etc?
post #55 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Actually, the larger Kindle's profile in that image of it on that ladies palm in the AI post kind of looks like the bottom half of the MacBook Air just a different color.

Google started their copiers!

You mean Amazon, right?
post #56 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

You are kidding right? You honestly can't see how this would save paper? Cost the cost of producttion in printing costs, etc?

Move from Wood to Hemp. Hemp grows rapidly, is a highly dense per acre product, longer lasting and a fraction of the cost to harvest and move to pulp for textiles and the print industry.

If the US Government would get out of the way on this issue the clothing and print industry would save massive amounts of money and Trees would be focused more for construction and not for our work and leisure print media.
post #57 of 248
Damn you Amazon, stick a GSM Chipset in that thing and get it over here to United Kingdom already! I want one!

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post #58 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

..doesn't mean Kindle will follow the same arc, but I'm watching the pioneers take the arrows with interest.....

Pioneer, yes. Perfect world-changing solution, no.

The very name "Kindle" to me describes Amazon's vision. This isn't the fire, it's not the fuel, it's just the little bit to get the fire started!

My biggest gripe is that the publishers see this as a way to make massively more money. eBooks have massively less manufacturing and distribution costs, cannot be resold (or, it seems, transferred from one device to another?), and have inherently less value. The price for the consumer should be far less than a paper copy.

Fix the business model, and mature the readers (bigger, faster, cheaper, color screens), and it just might catch on!
post #59 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

No you can't. I know you, and most other people here like to diss almost all non-Apple gear, but really, the Kindle is nothing like anything Apple has and in my opinion, in its own right, the Kindle is awesome. The Kindle DX is even better and when / if it gets color it will be even more amazing. If you read only on the bus or train on your way to work, or whatever, there is no need for a Kindle, the iPhone / Touch will do. But if you are a voracious reader, and there are many of them about - the kindle is superior by a large margin. Primarily because of the screen, but also because of the ability to access Amazon, read reviews, preview chapters, quick downloads, etc etc. Combine that with the ability to read newspapers, and when color arrives, surf the net and you have a really cool device. Now if we only could get the damn thing in Canada, there would be at least one in my house.

The price of color would have shot this up $200-$400 more or they would have put it in. The 4 hours to charge is a joke. Obviously, Apple R&D on battery design will be particularly useful, as well their Chip designers, Industrial Designers and much more when coming out with an actual Tablet that does more than read books, journals and newspapers at 150ppi on 16 bit Grayscale.
post #60 of 248
Everyone knocking the display seems to ignore the 2 huge advantages of e-ink over a back-lit screen:
1. Eye-fatigue
2. Ability to read in bright sunlight.

No doubt it sucks these things are only in B&W, but who cares if it's in color if you can't see the damn thing or you don't want to look at it any longer because it hurts to do so. I don't know how any new tablet device from Apple will overcome that problem.

Would I pay that much for it? Probably not, not without a stylus to mark up the docs (assuming this would be another limitation of the e-ink technology). But as a law student, I drool at the idea of ditching my textbooks for something like this.
post #61 of 248
Just thought I'd throw two links in about Kindle demographics...

In a nutshell, Kindle seems to have about a 50 yr. old median age, and 70% are above 40 yrs. old.
The second link has interesting comments and feedback.
Based on the target of education, it seems Amazon is aiming to shift their demographic, but I still say it won't find traction until it addresses 3 things: lower price, color, and multi-function (calendar, email, to-do/organizer, and possibly Office document editing).
I guess the real proof will be if they can develop the Kindle, while selling enough to keep this moving forward.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/gadgetreviews/?p=3845

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10170028-1.html
post #62 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

You are kidding right? You honestly can't see how this would save paper? Cost the cost of producttion in printing costs, etc?

Yes it would save paper, and most surely reduce the costs of distribution over printed matter, but the cost of purchasing the 'books' would most likely not be lowered since publishers control those prices.

But there are however the unique costs of production (plastic, glass) of operation (electricity or batteries), and the -huge- cost of ownership, and recovery if lost or damaged. One has to factor all of that in with the cost making and distributing low tech paper products. E-books can be distributed on all of those laptop PC's that are already out there - so we're talking a marginal improvement for each child at 500.00 a child for the reader, plus administration, insurance, theft, recharging, recycling, etc hassles.

I'm still considering this whole matter, as I do not own a Kindle so can not speak for it's advantages in actual use. If I want an e-book, I buy it and listen on my iPod (no reading required and entirely portable).

Currently it seems that I can actually find all of the books I want, new or at least used, for less than copyright protected Kindle books. Another SIGNIFICANT DISADVANTAGE to the Kindle user....

I doubt that one would be able to lend his Kindle book to a friend! No wonder the publishers like them.
post #63 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by diskimage View Post

Why the 3.3GB, why not 3GB or 4GB?

One good guess would be OS and other user files taking up space.

The real question in my mind is why not 8 or 16 GB in a device this expensive? I know that in my case some of the periodicals I get I keep forever. It would take long to fill the device up. It's a big issue in my mind and is one element that leads to a no buy.

Frankly if this thing is to be a portable library it ought to have the capacity to be just that.


Dave
post #64 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasein View Post

Two very good points. It makes sense for textbooks, probably paying for itself the first few years. Writing in the margins is a habit of mine as well that I would miss.

Physically printed stuff is designed as a large-as-possible-cast net to appeal to all (Sunday's newspaper). "News" needs to be rethought from the bottom up, starting with editor's picks (I'd like that job for myself...seriously) and original documents. I can switch channels easy...can't do that with a newspaper. Clearing houses are closer to originals. NYTimes et al., are just middle men...packaging people if you will. I shouldn't need them. What I would like to go with hardware like this is a selection process tailored to me, not imposed on me by some editor at a large newspaper. RSS type subscriptions seem headed in the right direction. I guess we'll find out in 5-10 years.

Do you know anything about newspapers?

The NY Times, WSJ, and most other major papers are not clearinghouses. They have dozens of their own reporters on their payrolls, as well as dozens more who are stringers. Then they have editors managing editors etc. Where do you get this idea from?
post #65 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

One good guess would be OS and other user files taking up space.

The real question in my mind is why not 8 or 16 GB in a device this expensive? I know that in my case some of the periodicals I get I keep forever. It would take long to fill the device up. It's a big issue in my mind and is one element that leads to a no buy.

Frankly if this thing is to be a portable library it ought to have the capacity to be just that.


Dave

Aren't all your purchases kept on Amazon's server? Therefore no need for xtralarge hard drives?
post #66 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Kindle offers many more buttons per dollar than the iPhone/touch, the colorblind are no longer disadvantaged, horizontal view doesn't confusingly rotate the keyboard and controls, and PDF support brings the user into the 20th century. The Grey Lady returns with a vengeance--at a high-class price! I don't see any room for Apple here.

So you see all of the disadvantage as advantages?

Or are you just kidding?
post #67 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoshop59 View Post

Yes it would save paper, and most surely reduce the costs of distribution over printed matter, but the cost of purchasing the 'books' would most likely not be lowered since publishers control those prices.

The price$ are already half for a book and have been. Go to Amazon and check it out.
post #68 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

So you see all of the disadvantage as advantages?

Or are you just kidding?

He's Fooing you .
post #69 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by randythot View Post

Just thought I'd throw two links in about Kindle demographics...

In a nutshell, Kindle seems to have about a 50 yr. old median age, and 70% are above 40 yrs. old.
The second link has interesting comments and feedback.
Based on the target of education, it seems Amazon is aiming to shift their demographic, but I still say it won't find traction until it addresses 3 things: lower price, color, and multi-function (calendar, email, to-do/organizer, and possibly Office document editing).
I guess the real proof will be if they can develop the Kindle, while selling enough to keep this moving forward.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/gadgetreviews/?p=3845

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10170028-1.html

Well look at the advances from 1st gen to 2nd. It seems to me to be developing at a rather fast pace.
post #70 of 248
Sure it's expensive, but for those who can afford 1st gen tech it's a nice product. I guarantee they'll sell a lot of them.

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post #71 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Amazon unveils 9.7-inch Kindle DX

That's a little graphic for a tech site, don't you think?
post #72 of 248
Just so I know we are all on the same planet.....

You guys do realize that the Apple mystery tablet is going totally annihilate the kindle dx out of existence to the point where the destruction might cause a tear to form in the space time continuum.......right?
post #73 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

The real question in my mind is why not 8 or 16 GB in a device this expensive?

The amount seems more than sufficient to me at this point. Just like the iPod, it shouldn't be the only place you store your content. The more NAND the more power it needs, too. Plus, incrementing the capacity with each update will help with sales. Apple seems well versed in this tactic.
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post #74 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

Just so I know we are all on the same planet.....

You guys do realize that the Apple mystery tablet is going totally annihilate the kindle dx out of existence to the point where the destruction might cause a tear to form in the space time continuum.......right?

Yeah but like when- St Crispin's Day 2011?
post #75 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

The first few revs of a little computer called "Macintosh" were disparaged and even ridiculed for being B&W - and lots of people who liked it otherwise didn't buy.

Still, last I heard, it hung in and got past that.....

..doesn't mean Kindle will follow the same arc, but I'm watching the pioneers take the arrows with interest.....

The problem with the Kindle, and devices like them, it that they are specialized devices in a time when specialized devices are going away.

I find it hard to believe that people who frequent computer sites, and are thereby assumed to be "up" on technology, and where it's going, can't seem to see that this is just a short term solution. Amazon has no interest in selling Kindles, because they know that few people will get them. That's one reason why they have the program for the iTouch/iPhone.

Amazon wants to sell books, magazines etc. This is the razor, and the content is the blade.

Amazon is hoping that this high profile device family, I guess we can now call it, will make people think about digital media for reading.

But in a couple of years, the ATOM and ARM will be powerful enough, and need little enough power, for a computer to fit this space, and obsolete a reader.

I hope that by that time, a good screen develops, because this one is marginal at best, and yes, I've used one.
post #76 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

This is the razor, and the content is the blade.

Most... expensive... razor... EVER!

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post #77 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

This one looks much better than the previous one.

Apple don't need to make ebook reader, they only need a touch tablet. The reader can be a software by Amazon.

I agree , a nice touch tablet .
wifi
internet
osx
all the app's from iphone store < kndle app is free >
colour
usb
firewire
dvd player
multi touch
all glass top
unibody bottom
camera
video
250 g hd
NVIDIA graphics
The GeForce 9600M GT
2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x1GB


help what else can 1 add ???

all this for 899 $
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #78 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Really? I bought the lecture notes, edited the engineering sets and if a friend needed them but couldn't afford them, at the moment, we'd photocopied a set for them to use.

Most often everyone paid for the lecture notes made well by the lecture taker which involved schematics you wouldn't do without a pencil, eraser, straight edge and more. This isn't a useful note taker in Engineering fields with application schematics.

Just think: You've gotten an entire years worth of annotated lectures and textbooks on your device, and you lose it. Now, the books can be downloaded again, and you can get the lectures again, but what about all of those valuable notes?

Is there a way to back all of that up (assuming that people will do so, as we know people don't back important info up)?

I'd rather lose one annotated textbook and lecture than all at once.
post #79 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

One good guess would be OS and other user files taking up space.

The real question in my mind is why not 8 or 16 GB in a device this expensive? I know that in my case some of the periodicals I get I keep forever. It would take long to fill the device up. It's a big issue in my mind and is one element that leads to a no buy.

Frankly if this thing is to be a portable library it ought to have the capacity to be just that.


Dave

a 5MB song lasts 3 minutes or so. a 5MB book file is hundreds of pages and will take you a long time to read. no reason for enough storage to last you 20 years of reading since you will buy a better model several times by then
post #80 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

There are a select few on here that will bash everything and anything that's not Apple.
Amazon has done an amazing job with this device. ANd- they are already on their 2nd gen.

It's not that they haven't done an amazing job with the hardware. The question is whether this entire category is viable.

You really have to remember that we have no idea how many Kindle's have been sold. Amazon refuses to answer that question. Estimates have been all over the place, from 250,000 to 750,000.

While Apple doesn't break out numbers for each model in their lines, they at least do tell us how many of a line have been sold, to a certain extent. So we know how many desktops, portables, iPhones, iPods etc.

Amazon has had ONE device. The fact that they have constantly refused to give out sales figures seems a bit suspicious.
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