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Apple may be forced into Verizon iPhone within 2 years - report - Page 2

post #41 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by CU10 View Post

Jailbreakers have won!

What did they win? When did they win it?

You realize this isn't a product announcement, right?
post #42 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by themoonisdown09 View Post

I'm currently on Verizon (and have been for the past 6 years) and am planning on switching to AT&T this summer for the new iPhone. I would love it if they release the iPhone on Verizon this summer, but I know that's too soon (even if it is possible).

It makes me mad because I want to get an iPhone this summer, but I love Verizon and I don't think I could wait another year or two for a Verizon version.

I guess I'll just be switching to AT&T this summer, but I've heard the service isn't as good as Verizon...

I'm in the same boat. I love my touch, and hate it when I don't have a network. With a potentially new iphone this summer, I may collapse and switch and live with ATT until there's something decent on Verizon and switch back...
post #43 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

And, unless I missed something, CDMA phones don't have swappable SIM cards. So how the hell is that going to work?

For how many people is the lack of a SIM really going to be a problem? I know the people that travel a lot might want it, but once a device is on a network, it's kind of moot. When I had CDMA, I never fussed about something that wasn't there, nor do I fuss about it when it is there in my GSM phone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post

How often do you find yourself calling customer service?

I've been on Sprint with my Treo 650 since 2005 and I've had to call customer service zero (0) times. Yes, ZERO.

Their network is incredibly reliable and I've had absolutely no problems with them.

Everyone seems to complain about how bad Sprint's customer service is, but... Seriously, why are you calling customer service so much?

If people don't need to call customer service very often, then it shouldn't cost much to upgrade customer service to something that's workable. Preferably something where the customer can get someone that's in the same local region so the customer and CSR is likely to be acclimated to each other's accents and dialect. Heck, with one CSR, a simple replacement mic piece on the CSR's end might have saved a lot of time and communication problems.
post #44 of 100
2011? Dream on. This just ain't happening, folks...... sounds to me like idle speculation.
post #45 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmafan420 View Post

I do not hear good things about Sprint, but their everything for $80 a month (I think) is a pretty good deal.

I have unlimited everything with Sprint (texts, tethering, internet, TV) and 1500 anytime minutes for $50/month, all in. It's an awesome deal. If I could get an iPhone on that plan then I would. But AT&Ts rates are just crazy expensive.
post #46 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

2011? Dream on. This just ain't happening, folks...... sounds to me like idle speculation.

I wish this speculation were idle. As soon as it dies down another article pops up with more foolish analyst speculation stating, "If Apple sold the iPhone on more carriers they'd sell more iPhones" or "If Apple lowered the price they'd sell more iPhones."
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post #47 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SprintLuvr View Post

I have unlimited everything with Sprint (texts, tethering, internet, TV) and 1500 anytime minutes for $50/month, all in. It's an awesome deal. If I could get an iPhone on that plan then I would. But AT&Ts rates are just crazy expensive.

AT&T is more expensive than Sprint's SERO but on par with the three major carriers normal plans, with Sprint and T-Mobile being the cheapest because they have to, then AT&T and then Verizon in last with their nickel and diming options which they can do since they are top dog in coverage and subscribers right now.

But using SERO as proof of AT&T being overpriced is a poor argument. For starters, SERO is an acronym for Sprint Employee Referral Offer. It is not offered to everyone as standard and so it shouldn't be compared to standard plans. However, in a vain attempt to stop their hemorrhaging subscriber base they have been forced to do some drastic things. It's now pretty easy to get on a SERO plan, but you have to understand why they are doing it.



PS: Note that the original iPhone's unlimited data plan was only $20/month when data plans were $40-$50 across the board on all carriers when it launched.
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post #48 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I wish this speculation were idle. As soon as it dies down another article pops up ......

The conspiracy theorist in me is beginning to think that Verizon is the one throwing it out there......
post #49 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

The conspiracy theorist in me is beginning to think that Verizon is the one throwing it out there......

It would be a good tactic. If I head of such things at Verizon I'd leak such info.
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post #50 of 100
If Sprint had 78 million subscribers (like AT&T) instead of loosing a million subscribers a quarter, their rates would be the identical to AT&T.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SprintLuvr View Post

I have unlimited everything with Sprint (texts, tethering, internet, TV) and 1500 anytime minutes for $50/month, all in. It's an awesome deal. If I could get an iPhone on that plan then I would. But AT&Ts rates are just crazy expensive.
post #51 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

OMG! I've never heard that before. How absolutely nerve racking for that guy. It's like a conversation with Teckstud.

You're just upset because all my dreams are being realized while all your excuses and explanations of why things aren't necessary are being disregarded .
post #52 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by w00master View Post

I'm amazed with some of you. Seriously. First of all, (lets go on this long shot assumption) lets say Apple does decide to go with Verizon Wireless. Why do any of you think that they would then abandon GSM? What kind of logic is that? Second, who cares where this so called study comes from? In the end, it's complete LOGIC that Apple will eventually have to expand to other US carriers. If you HONESTLY believe that this is not necessary and only AT&T is fine, then I seriously would LOVE to smoke what you are smoking. Why? Because at some point, it is literally IMPOSSIBLE for Apple to expand and sell more iPhones. There's an ENORMOUS percentage of Americans that will NEVER leave their wireless networks and yet desire an iPhone. Do you honestly believe that Apple will continue to hold them out? Give me a break.

The only way long term for Apple to double their U.S. sales is to open the device up to other carriers. It is a 100% certainty that this will happen.

Actually. Apple can easily double and triple their iPhone shares by just getting current ATT customers to switch to an iPhone. The iPhone is still a small percentage of ATT customer's phone. This may not be as beneficial to ATT as a new customer. But Apple still makes money and gain market shares with each sale of an iPhone.

Offer a special iPhone package, like they did with the original iPhone, and Apple will benefit greatly just from current ATT customers switching to an iPhone to get the plan.

For now, Apple's growth stops (in the US) when there's no more people willing to switch to ATT AND when all ATT customers (that wants an iPhone) are using an iPhone.
post #53 of 100
Citigroup research?

They couldn't even predict their own company's approach to near bankruptcy.
post #54 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by eodchop View Post

I am getting rid of my iphone until i can get someone besides ATT and their absurb 3g rates. Only two more months left on the contract. I would love to see Sprint, Verizon, Alltel etc be able to distribute the iphone. This vendor lock, corporate bargaining shit needs to end.


I don't see what will change with Verizon as their rates are basically the same. I Really don't see rates for data coming down for any of the carriers any time soon.

Maybe when LTE shows up the government will force vendor locks to end.
post #55 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

The conspiracy theorist in me is beginning to think that Verizon is the one throwing it out there......

that was my first thought. it seems they are pushing one iphone related rumour out every week...
post #56 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

that was my first thought. it seems they are pushing one iphone related rumour out every week...

This is getting ridiculous. Enough with the "Apple needs an iPhone on the Verizon network ".

Here in Canada, Bell and Telus are creating a HSPA network just to bridge the gap to LTE (and also fight Rogers on a level playing field), eventually abandoning their CDMA infrastructure.

Why would Apple create a "CDMA" version when in 2 years, LTE will be prevalent across NA and the world.

In an ironic twist, Apple is already using a CDMA-like chip...UMTS uses WCDMA for it's air interface..so Qualcomm still makes (not as much as a pure CDMA2000 chip) money on the patent.

And BTW Citigroup there are LTE / HSPA / EDGE chips as well.

http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/Jan2009/Two_N..._and_3G_3G.htm


Like alphajack said , no wonder Citigroup is in dire straits.
post #57 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadisonTate View Post

Why on earth would I want to do that? CDMA is a superior technology. GSM vs. CDMA is like VHS vs. BetaMax, or even PC vs. Mac. Popularity (and especially not ubiquity) and superiority seldom go hand-and-hand.

Actually, that's completely untrue. By any measure, GSM is superior to CDMA as a standard.* GSM is less widely deployed (that means fewer towers) in North America due to its youth here, and that's why you're inclined to call it a lesser "technology." Your statement is the logical equivalent of "Driving is a superior means of travel to flying because the airport is further from my house than my garage."

Next time you decide to publish your thoughts, please stick to your usual "ZOMG VERIPHONETOUCH CDMA>GSM LOL BC U DONT EVEN KNO!!!1!" This way, people will be able to identify it as garbage without having to actually read it.



*I'm using the word "standard" for simplicity's sake. I'm aware that CDMA is not itself a "standard." For what it's worth, referring to both terms as "technologies," as seen above, is even more useless. For clarity, I'm referring to networks descended from GSM and CDMA networks,
post #58 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A research note from Citigroup sent out late on Tuesday stresses that the US cellular market is quickly hitting a wall in terms of growth and that even the iPhone can't save AT&T from the same fate.

The Apple employee whose job is to read and summarize this stuff probably got a good chuckle from this note as he/she wrote a summary for Cook/Schiller.

"US market saturated with cellphones? Yes. With smartphones? Not when they see what we're doing next.
Max of 20-25% of ATT customers would get an iPhone? Not when they see what we're doing next.
Few switchers from Verizon/Sprint/Tmobile? Not when they see what we're doing next.

Silly analysts."
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post #59 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHKOsta View Post

Actually, that's completely untrue. By any measure, GSM is superior to CDMA as a standard.* GSM is less widely deployed (that means fewer towers) in North America due to its youth here, and that's why you're inclined to call it a lesser "technology." Your statement is the logical equivalent of "Driving is a superior means of travel to flying because the airport is further from my house than my garage."

To add, Apple probably thought which cell technology has the most penetration WORLDWIDE; there is no question GSM rules the roost. 3 Billion connections in 2008

http://www.gsmworld.com/about-us/history.htm

as I stated above, it's ironic the GSM crew decided to use WCDMA for UMTS/HSPA
post #60 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

The Apple employee whose job is to read and summarize this stuff probably got a good chuckle from this note as he/she wrote a summary for Cook/Schiller.

"US market saturated with cellphones? Yes. With smartphones? Not when they see what we're doing next.
Max of 20-25% of ATT customers would get an iPhone? Not when they see what we're doing next.
Few switchers from Verizon/Sprint/Tmobile? Not when they see what we're doing next.

Silly analysts."

20-25% of AT&T customers using an iPhone seems astronomically high to me. That would be 15-20M of AT&T's current 78M subscriber base, which included all their cheap pay as go customers. That would mean 1 out of 4 or 5 phones sold is an iPhone with a $69/month plan. I think that is also about 8% of all phones in the US, regardless of carrier, being iPhones.
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post #61 of 100
If the iPhone had to be available for sale with every service provider, it's "game over" for all other smartphones.

All of the others only exist because there is a huge number of people who prefer their current provider over AT&T, so they'll settle for inferior devices to stay with the phone company of their choice.

If that barrier is knocked down, then the iPhone will rule!
post #62 of 100
Oh look, my precise argument from last week that a bunch of people were screaming "isn't realistic.. AT&T FTW, Appe doesn't need anyone else, etc".... Let me paste in my old post:
Quote:
1) HALF OF ALL UNIT SALES if the iPhone have occured in the United states, so clearly it has been far more popular here and thus America is far more imporant as a lucrative market than just its total cellphone subscribers would suggest.

2) AT&T has a lot of customers, but Verizon and Sprint combined is over 135 million CDMA subscribers. The rest are either on Tmobile (no nationwide 3G network yet), small regional carriers, or prepaid. The iPhone interest on AT&T is going to saturate eventually and most of the individuals on another carrier that were interested in switching to get the iPhone have already done so considering it's been nearly two years since the iPhone release which means everyones contracts on other carriers should have expired by now. Obviously AT&T will continue to siphon a snakk stream of users from other carriers, but there are surely millions of interested potential iPhone customers who will not switch to AT&T.
Look at AT&T's coverage (or lackthereof) in the west, their spotty 3G coverage, even whole states are left out! Also, Verizon and Sprint together have a HUGE amount of small business and corporate accounts that people are stuck on and are in no position to change.
post #63 of 100
That would be absurd, Verizon carrying the iPhone. Verizon charges you for almost everything. Previously, I had Verizon but abandoned it for AT&T. AT&T has better service and phones.
Which US carrier carries the iPhone? AT&T.
Which carrier has rollover minutes? AT&T.
Which carrier is global? AT&T.
I'm happy with my iPhone 3G on "AT&T". If Apple decides to give Verizon a taste of the iPhone- that would be a disaster. Imagine the monthly bills for those iPhone customers that Verizon would charge for their service. Give me a break, even a 14-yr old like me can figure it out.
post #64 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

All things being equal, CDMA may or may not be a superior technology for voice calls but HSDPA is a far superior technology to EV-DO for cellular data.

That may be true if you've got coverage, but AT&T sure seems to have trouble deploying HSDPA compared to the EV-DO providers. This could just be due to AT&T being lazy/incompetent, but I suspect the real problem is the huge amount of spectrum that UMTS/HSDPA requires. That's gotta make logistics difficult in a lot of places.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHKOsta View Post

Actually, that's completely untrue. By any measure, GSM is superior to CDMA as a standard.* GSM is less widely deployed (that means fewer towers) in North America due to its youth here, and that's why you're inclined to call it a lesser "technology." Your statement is the logical equivalent of "Driving is a superior means of travel to flying because the airport is further from my house than my garage."

Now this really isn't true. CDMA is technically superior to GSM. It doesn't have GSM's 35 km range limitation, and it supports soft handoffs. There's a reason that some of the CDMA carriers manage to cover rural areas well and the GSM carriers never do. CDMA phones also work better in low-signal conditions, and don't drop calls as often. CDMA also supports more users per cell site and has no hard limits on the number of people that can connect to a tower at once. It also doesn't have that irritating tendency to make consumer electronics with speakers in them go "zzt, zzt, zzt" all the time if the phone happens to be in the same room. GSM may be more popular, but it is inferior technologically. It's not the difference between VHS and Betamax. It's the difference between VHS and DVD.

There's a reason that UMTS/HSDPA is based on CDMA, rather than the TDMA that GSM uses. In an ideal world, no one would be using GSM anymore, and they'd all be migrated over to UMTS, but sadly it looks like it probably won't be completely phased out until after LTE hits.
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post #65 of 100
Today GM posted 6 billion in losses. Although I hate GM with a passion and would be happy to see them go, I hate ATT more.

I will only buy an iphone when it has become ATT free.
post #66 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

And, unless I missed something, CDMA phones don't have swappable SIM cards. So how the hell is that going to work?

Two thoughts about that:

1) It is technically feasible for CDMA phones to use swappable subscriber identity cards instead of hard-coded information burned into the phone itself. In fact, such systems have seen limited real-world implementations. However, the technology hasn't gained much traction.

2) Why is it even relevant? The hybrid chipset this article is talking about might only allow a choice between either LTE (4G) or "traditional" CDMA - there might still only be one fallback path per chipset. So if Apple chose to go down this route using such a chipset, they might still end up with 2 different types of 4G iPhones -- one LTE with CDMA fallback, and one LTE with GSM/UTMS fallback.
post #67 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHKOsta View Post

Actually, that's completely untrue. By any measure, GSM is superior to CDMA as a standard.* GSM is less widely deployed (that means fewer towers) in North America due to its youth here, and that's why you're inclined to call it a lesser "technology." Your statement is the logical equivalent of "Driving is a superior means of travel to flying because the airport is further from my house than my garage."

Next time you decide to publish your thoughts, please stick to your usual "ZOMG VERIPHONETOUCH CDMA>GSM LOL BC U DONT EVEN KNO!!!1!" This way, people will be able to identify it as garbage without having to actually read it.



*I'm using the word "standard" for simplicity's sake. I'm aware that CDMA is not itself a "standard." For what it's worth, referring to both terms as "technologies," as seen above, is even more useless. For clarity, I'm referring to networks descended from GSM and CDMA networks,

CDMA is nearly dead.
post #68 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

What did they win?...

I was thinking jailbreakers broke their contract just to have something that every other cellphone user enjoys- choice of a carrier; and now this article explains why multiple carriers are sensible for Apple, and jailbreakers someday may no longer need to break their contracts; I think they won that way. Jailbreakers were protesters in a way. Also because I could post something first.

This also gives me the excuse to post the following:

I hope AI doesn't mind; jailbreak away ladies!
post #69 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

OMG! I've never heard that before. How absolutely nerve racking for that guy. It's like a conversation with Teckstud.

spammish off-topic comment.
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post #70 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by CU10 View Post

I was thinking jailbreakers broke their contract just to have something that every other cellphone user enjoys- choice of a carrier; and now this article explains why multiple carriers are sensible for Apple, and jailbreakers someday may no longer need to break their contracts; I think they won that way. Jailbreakers were protesters in a way. Also because I could post something first.

This also gives me the excuse to post the following:

I hope AI doesn't mind; jailbreak away ladies!

what ?? hey i can't read so well write now . wow .

APPLE will build up 2 yrs of great expectation . about the next phone
AND who will sell it .

in the end apple gets tons of free ads.

apple gets so many wanting this phone and this phone just gets better

look at the app dept !!!

APPLE in the end will sell a ,ton of these phones

and we helped ./
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post #71 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by djzapp View Post

enuf said

You got that part right.
post #72 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by eodchop View Post

I am getting rid of my iphone until i can get someone besides ATT and their absurb 3g rates. Only two more months left on the contract.

If you think you'll get a better smart-phone plan from Verizon, you're dreaming!

*AND* you'll get all the limitations on phone and access control for which Verizon is justly infamous.
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post #73 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SprintLuvr View Post

I have unlimited everything with Sprint (texts, tethering, internet, TV) and 1500 anytime minutes for $50/month, all in. It's an awesome deal. If I could get an iPhone on that plan then I would. But AT&Ts rates are just crazy expensive.

The problem is that you're judging everyone else by the SERO rates and not the regularly advertised rates which are considerably higher. It's great that you can get that, but I don't think just anyone can get.
post #74 of 100
Quote:
The problem is that you're judging everyone else by the SERO rates and not the regularly advertised rates which are considerably higher. It's great that you can get that, but I don't think just anyone can get.

I'm still on the original SERO plan (from 4 years ago), the 500 anytime, N&W at 7pm, and Unlimited Text and Data for 30 dollars a month + tax.

Originally (and I don't know if this is still true or not) you only needed to enter a sprint e-mail address to sign up for the plan. It used to be anyone could do it, I'm not sure if it is still the same way but anyone could do it at the time. I would argue that the other carriers are gouging their customers.
post #75 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by scavanger View Post

I'm still on the original SERO plan (from 4 years ago), the 500 anytime, N&W at 7pm, and Unlimited Text and Data for 30 dollars a month + tax.

Originally (and I don't know if this is still true or not) you only needed to enter a sprint e-mail address to sign up for the plan. It used to be anyone could do it, I'm not sure if it is still the same way but anyone could do it at the time. I would argue that the other carriers are gouging their customers.

I didn't realize it was so easy to get on, I'm surprised that they let it go like that for so long given its stated purpose, because it was apparently so easy to get on without even having to know a Sprint employee.

You're grandfathered in, but if this article is right, the SERO program is gone, replaced with a more expensive employee program and harder to get on.

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/0...to-the-sunset/
post #76 of 100
" The real question is WHEN. Will Apple make a CDMA phone? Maybe not, but it really is not that difficult at all. Will Apple stick with only one model of the iPhone? Highly doubtful. Why? Look at their iPod lines: multiple products for multiple types of consumers. Look at their notebook line; their Mac line. It won't be any different on the iPhone side.

I can somewhat understand (barely) the Apple cult. Heck, some accuse me of being one of them, but AT&T cult? I'm seriously flabbergasted.

w00master[/QUOTE]

"

Yes, the iPod has many versions but they're all mp3 players. Same technology just different form factors. Building a separate phone just to satisfy Verison or any other carrier just isn't cost effective . In the end a losing venture.
post #77 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

20-25% of AT&T customers using an iPhone seems astronomically high to me. That would be 15-20M of AT&T's current 78M subscriber base, which included all their cheap pay as go customers. That would mean 1 out of 4 or 5 phones sold is an iPhone with a $69/month plan. I think that is also about 8% of all phones in the US, regardless of carrier, being iPhones.

Just to be clear: the Citigroup analysts say 12% of ATT customers today have an iPhone, but would max out at 20-25%. So that's an estimated 9.3m ATT iPhone users today; we know 5.9m have signed up since July 2008, according to ATT conference calls/quarterly filings.

That %age might look high right now, but the trend is toward smartphones. Where's the upper limit?

If you go back just 6-7 years, you would've asked the same question about home broadband Internet, and might've concluded 25% would go for $40/mo broadband when $10/mo plans were available. But today, it's way past 50% and still growing. And that's because Internet-based content/communication has become more and more valuable. Same thing will happen with smartphones, though it may saturate around 60% instead of 80-90%. The key is how valuable will Internet access become to a person on-the-move? (Make sure you add in 4G LTE speeds in the future.)

(If wifi networks had taken off (or take off), then I'd lower the iPhone number, and increase the iPod touch number. But nationwide/municipal wifi seems dead, as even Google is no longer rah-rahing about it.)
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post #78 of 100
Since when as a CITI ever been right about anything with apple... This would cut huge into apples Cost to build... Apple does not work like this.. you really dont have a big choice.. if you want a custom computer you have to have them build it .. not walk into the apple store.. I can see the Issues now.. Hum Att, Or Verizon um this has that.. Yeah thats what apple really wants.. You want there product you go with the company they choose.. if not go get a damn Blackberry..

PLus Steve Holds a Gurge..
post #79 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Gotta love these analysts!

Seriously. If the world revolved around analysts, I'd be typing this on a Commodore 64.
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post #80 of 100
While I can't stand SBC (AT&T) support ... the mobile coverage in my area is excellent. I haven't had any problems.

Back on topic: Duh! Of course Apple will have to eventually move to other carriers to expand their current reach.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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