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Microsoft launches assault on Apple's "iPod tax" - Page 2

post #41 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by skottichan View Post

*sighs* Apparently you can't read. I'm saying, if you for any reason stop the subscription, either because you can't afford it, or MS pulls the plug (Like Plays-For-Sure), you will have spent on average $1.50 pr track you've gotten to keep.

That's precisely what I said. By your logic (which is to simply ignore the value of the subscription service), sure, the cost per song is $1.50. As I said, that's a premium per song of $.51/track over purchasing the songs from iTunes (or, the Zune Marketplace, for that matter). However, my point was that you've actually simply paid for access to a large library of songs, and gotten use of it.

Your logic is like saying that every dollar spent on leasing a car is wasted simply because you don't actually have possession of the car afterward. There are, of course, reasons to purchase vs. lease, and vice versa. However, the point of leasing or purchasing a car is to have USE of it. And my point is that for that extra $5/month for the Zune Pass, I get to enjoy the use of many more songs than I could ever afford to buy.

Again, to keep it simple: $5/month for access to a nice library of songs (because, as I alluded to, I would buy at least 10 songs in any event). Less than half the cost of a single movie ticket. For me, that's a small price to pay.
post #42 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If you want 10 DRMed WMA @192Kbps for $15/month along with the unlimited exploding media, then go for it.

I'm pretty sure that the 10 songs you get from the Zune Pass subscription are MP3s (i.e. no DRM).
post #43 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You misunderstand. It's not that this wouldn't appeal to a select number of users, but that it doesn't appeal to enough users to viable AND the commercial's poor rational is laughable. The 10 free tracks are only being done now because the model is failing miserably. It will fail like all the other subscription models and you'll be left paying $15 for 10 songs a month. Not exactly a good deal to me.

If you want 10 DRMed WMA @192Kbps for $15/month along with the unlimited exploding media, then go for it. I want to own my music, I don't want it DRMed and I don't want to invest in a subscription model that will fail like the rest. I buy music when I want to buy it, not because I'm told I get x-many tracks to choose within a set timeframe. I'm not a bargain shopper. If Apple did it, it would be welcomed IF AND ONLY IF they still maintained their current store, but most wouldn't consider it even though it would be more popular than the Zune Pass since iPods are common and iTunes Store business model isn't in jeopardy of failing.


You seem to be confused as to the model.

The 10 included songs are not DRMed WMAs. They're standard MP3s. Download them and own them, just as if you'd paid $.99 for them on iTunes. Play them on any device you want. Cancel the subscription, those songs are yours to keep. The only songs that stop working are songs you haven't purchased, either using the credits or by paying the standard purchase price.

So, again, you're paying $14.95/month for 10 songs to keep (MP3s) and unlimited access to the subscription service. Meaning, the subscription service is essentially $5/month.

Hope that clarifies things for you.
post #44 of 116
Quote:
The company has stated it plans to introduce new players this year and may center the spotlight on the rumored Zune HD, its first touchscreen player and a response that may come two years after the iPod touch.

The iPod Touch has been HD for 2 years???
post #45 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

Any lossless music on iTunes?

No, the files would be too large and the quality benefit would be too low if coming from CDs.

Quote:
The only music I collect is encoded in a lossless format.

You can convert any iTunes music into lossless. Making it lossless doesn't make it high quality, it only means that it was encoded without losing data from the source. But CDs are from high quality as they are.

Quote:
And I'm not sure that anyone will enjoy their iTunes lossy music collection in 10 years from now because of its low quality.

I will enjoy my 256kbps AAC audio from iTS in 10 years, just as I enjoy my ALAC audio from CDs in 10 years. The difference between the two is slim. Compared to CD audio it is far from being "low quality", though it is certainly not as high in quality.

At the end of the day, convenience wins people over. If it didn't CD's would never fallen in favour of the 128kbps audio Apple used to sell.

PS: Apple could offer ALAC files from high-quality originals (not CD quality!) at an increased rate. The files would be considerably larger but that would be fine with high quality audio. Since the ALAC only works with Apple products and even with the new iPod Shuffle, it may be such a bad idea, but only from a real source.
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post #46 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by DancesWithLysol View Post

I'm pretty sure that the 10 songs you get from the Zune Pass subscription are MP3s (i.e. no DRM).

Quote:
Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post

You seem to be confused as to the model.

The 10 included songs are not DRMed WMAs. They're standard MP3s.

Cool, I thought they gave you the protected files with that model.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post

So, again, you're paying $14.95/month for 10 songs to keep (MP3s) and unlimited access to the subscription service. Meaning, the subscription service is essentially $5/month.

Hope that clarifies things for you.

That is a waste for $5 for me. Again, that is fine for those that want it, but renting music has never been popular and I don't see how it will ever be popular, especially when the ecosystem hasn't shown that it's here to stay.


RIP August 2007 — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URGE
RIP September 2008 — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo!_Music_Unlimited
Still kicking but sickly — http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2009/...s-jump-25.html
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post #47 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by The General View Post

Of course, will microsoft put in their ad, that if you use their music rental system, you lose all the files you put on your Zune when they close the system. they have already kaboshed a few online stores already.... anyone remember Plays for Sure(but now doesnt)

Just to be clear, you only lose the songs that you haven't purchased or used the 10 credits a month for. So, if after a year of subscribing and using your 10 credits each month, you decided to cancel the subscription, you would still have on your Zune and fully playable:

1. The 120 songs from the credits (10 X 12 months) in MP3 format
2. The songs you purchased (many/most of which can be MP3)
3. The songs you ripped from CDs and got from wherever

You would have paid $60 (the extra $5/month) for that year for access to however many songs you wanted to download and not purchase. For myself, that would be something more than 10,000 songs that I would have enjoyed access to for the year. It's a personal preference, of course, but I don't mind paying $60 for a year's worth of music.

Say what you will, folks, but that's not a bad deal. Certainly, it can't possibly be so bad as to evoke such passionate responses against Microsoft for offering it.
post #48 of 116
I've wondered why Apple hasn't taken this issue head-on ages go, to get rid of it with barely any cost.

Simply offer an iTunes rental option as well, and let the marketplace decide.

It's not like they make a whole heck of a lot of margins from iTunes anyway.......
post #49 of 116
Oh look, it's new non-people with their new non-opinions posting professionally in the forum. How nice.

The "passion" may have been inflamed by the pejorative "Apple Tax" slogan... delivered by the most powerful monopolist in the industry. Maybe.


True, Apple pursues monopoly too, but only by giving people what they want, piece by piece and without commitment. This is the polar opposite of Microsoft's subscription-based, lock-in culture. They are not really competitors. Microsoft just wants to insult Apple's market base out of frustration.

What confuses me is, how are Microsoft's shareholders allowing these adventures into a market that makes no money, and provides no real value added to Microsoft. It seems like the demented Ballmer is just a hobbyist in this market. Makes me wonder why he doesn't pursue his hobbies with his own money instead of wasting shareholder resources. It is as if Microsoft were making chicken sandwiches to feed the ravenous Ballmer. It would go perfectly with all the baby's blood he drinks.
post #50 of 116
Not such a bad ad, I still get all of my music for free anywho, but I could see the zune pass as a nice thingie, especially if it workes not with zune. If it is locked to zune, then I would rather buy my .99 cent tracks from amazon without copy protection or download them online.
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post #51 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post

Just to be clear, you only lose the songs that you haven't purchased or used the 10 credits a month for. So, if after a year of subscribing and using your 10 credits each month, you decided to cancel the subscription, you would still have on your Zune and fully playable:

1. The 120 songs from the credits (10 X 12 months) in MP3 format
2. The songs you purchased (many/most of which can be MP3)
3. The songs you ripped from CDs and got from wherever

You would have paid $60 (the extra $5/month) for that year for access to however many songs you wanted to download and not purchase. For myself, that would be something more than 10,000 songs that I would have enjoyed access to for the year. It's a personal preference, of course, but I don't mind paying $60 for a year's worth of music.

Say what you will, folks, but that's not a bad deal. Certainly, it can't possibly be so bad as to evoke such passionate responses against Microsoft for offering it.

Well color me slightly impressed that you have the option of mp3 from MS. Of course that doesn't change anything and I'd rather have AAC than mp3 anyway.

I know its likely that you're getting paid to astroturf here but you're points aren't really helping this little advertising thing MS is trying.

1. What is this "on your Zune" stuff you're starting now? This is a Mac site we can't use the POS Zune on our Mac nor can we use the Zune Marketplace.

Also please stop pretending like anyone in the world already owns a Zune since nobody does.

2. You would have just as many if not more songs by buying the songs you wanted from iTunes and in better quality AAC.

3. In addition, you could save $60 a year by using any of the streaming services I listed to get all the free music you wanted instead of throwing your money away to MS.

The Zune and Zune Marketplace are both worthless and needless, there are already superior alternatives on the market.
post #52 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

Who the heck plans to fill up an ipod with only music?!!

Oh yeah, Microsoft does not consider pictures, personal files, videos, podcasts, audiobooks, audio recordings, and games as things that might be used on an ipod...

besides, when buying a storage device we expect at least 2 to 5 gigs of free space as a safety net.

I didn't "plan" on filling my 5th gen 60GB iPod with only music, but that's what ended up happening (until a few days ago when the hard drive flaked out on me). It started with a collection of music, videos and podcasts but when push came to shove the videos slowly disappeared until at the end all that was left was music.

Now I have to try to purchase an iPod Classic soon just in case Apple decides to discontinue them and move completely to a lower-capacity, higher cost, flash memory only iPod lineup. But at least I might have the space to put videos on it again.

And I'll probably be called a MS fanboy or get some rude comment that I should go buy a Zune, but the Zune Pass sounds like a pretty good deal. You get 10 songs to keep per month, and access to 3 million songs to choose from to fill your player with. So the price really breaks down to a $4.99 monthly fee. And I have the freedom to check out music I would otherwise ignore. Sounds like a win to me.

People claim that the music rental model has failed, but it has never really been offered in the mainstream. Zune has always been a niche product, so whether its subscription service is failing doesn't really reflect on the potential market for rental music. I think it would do pretty well if iTunes replicated the Zune Pass model.
post #53 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post

Say what you will, folks, but that's not a bad deal. Certainly, it can't possibly be so bad as to evoke such passionate responses against Microsoft for offering it.

if you should read the article again and check the url of the site you're on, you might figure out why deceptive half truths and twisted logic from microsoft invokes passionate responses from an apple focused website. just a thought....

odd also that you allow for 'stuff you purchase' and 'rip from cd' on your zune, when according to the ad us poor apple lemmings have to buy tens of thousands of dollars from the itunes store to fill up our ipods.

just out of curiosity: do you have to buy the ten tracks during the month you pay the 15 bucks for, or do they roll over?
post #54 of 116
I don't need to download 350 tracks and listen to them all weekend to decide if I like a band or not - I can use the preview function on iTunes and sample a few tracks and pretty much decide whether to investigate that band any further.

I think that all these ads do is make anyone using the MS product already have some sense of reassurance that they made a good choice - make anyone already using an Apple product examine what they have and conclude MS is smoking something - and not sure about those on the fence, maybe just reinforces whatever position they already had.

I once heard that many car commercials were not aimed at attracting new customers - but in reassuring recent new customers that they made a good decision.

I guess its a pretty fine line when "truth in advertising" is on the line. Hard to refute the fact that it *could* cost *up to* $30k to fill the (highest capacity* iPod with the lowest quality music only tracks - assuming you do not already have a single track of your own. Nevermind that they do not say what it would cost to fill the equivalent Zune to capacity with tracks you own.

While I have not used other MP3 players - I have have a number of folks try to cheap out and get something other than an iPod and end up disappointed and in some cases returning the device.
post #55 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If it didn't CD's would never fallen in favour of the 128kbps audio Apple used to sell.

Could you refresh my memory to the date that they stopped producing CD's? I seem to have forgotten it.

Or maybe you could remind me of the date that online downloads took 25% of the music market? I seem to forgotten that date as well.
post #56 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Could you refresh my memory to the date that they stopped producing CD's? I seem to have forgotten it.

Or maybe you could remind me of the date that online downloads took 25% of the music market? I seem to forgotten that date as well.

You read fallen and think that it means that CDs are no longer being produced? Interesting.

CD sales have fallen. Their marketshare is plummeting. iTS is the #1 music retailer in the US. As of March of this year NPD states that paid digital downloads account for 33% of music. No telling how much more is from stolen audio. This is all pretty common knowledge, but if you need to dig up a link or two I will.
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post #57 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

snip

People claim that the music rental model has failed, but it has never really been offered in the mainstream. Zune has always been a niche product, so whether its subscription service is failing doesn't really reflect on the potential market for rental music. I think it would do pretty well if iTunes replicated the Zune Pass model.

i don't think anybody here would call you a MS fanboy for saying that the 'iPod Killer' from Microsoft 'has always been a niche product'.

this is also the first time that i've ever read 'Microsoft' and 'not mainstream' in the same post. does that imply that only if apple decides to give it a go it becomes feasible? i can only imagine the outcry over the drm that is likely going to follow.... including the 'walled garden' talking point of the assorted shills.
post #58 of 116
The good thing about sh*t is that it is usually cheaper than its alternative.
OMG here we go again...
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post #59 of 116
yes this whole debate is ridiculous, but what i REALLY love is how Wes Moss explains the most inexpensive way to consume music... because that's what i like to do with my music... consume it.

apple gets musicians to pitch it's music players, microsoft gets a financial talk show radio host.
post #60 of 116
and the zune market place only has 3 million songs. well i like my odds of finding something new with itunes given they have 20 million + songs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITunes
and zunes are pieces of crap. i bought one to check it out, it felt so cheap. i took it to the gym one day and i decided it was garbage and just left it on the bench in the locker room. i didn't even care. in fact i pity the person that found it.
post #61 of 116
Nothing wrong with the choice of a subscription service, and I wish Apple offered one too. More choice is always better.

The Zune ad leaves out something, though (if someone hasn't pointed this out already):

Say an iPod owner and Zune owner each go a month without downloading new music. They're busy listening to the thousands of songs they already have (including all those from CD collections and other non-online-store sources). They're also busy with movies and countless podcasts and other media. It just isn't a new music kind of month, and both products' online music stores go untouched.

What's the bill for the month?

iPod + iTunes store user: $0.

Zune + Zune Pass user: $15. Despite no new music.

I guess you can't say the Zune Pass user is paying for nothing, as he's paying to listen to *previous* months' downloads. And, of course, many Zune Pass users *will* download lots of new music, every month, getting their money's worth.

Still, it's worth reminding folks that a subscription service is by no means as universally superior as a commercial claims! (Which everyone here already knows, of course.)
post #62 of 116
IIRC, Microsoft had a subscription-based service in the past... which they dropped, leaving people who depended on their subscriptions without their tune libraries. Paying a rental fee doesn't guarantee you that you'll have access to the music you're renting a month from now, let alone five years from now. The subscription plan is great if you like downloading and listening to large amounts of musicalthough for that, there's internet radio, Last.fm, and other free sources that I, at least, prefer; for songs you cherish, buying DRM-free music is better.

But it doesn't really matter what we think: what matters is if this succeeds well-enough to keep MS in the music business. Given that this model has been tried by half-a-dozen companies (including MS) and failed every single time, I can't imagine it will succeed now. Especially since it's tied to a player with poor market share. If MS were smarter about this, they would ditch Zune altogether and make a portable Xbox. They have a robust, successful download marketplace for the Xbox they could easily adapt to sell music with, keeping subscription-based service as an option.

Since Office destroyed the competition, Xbox is the only non-enterprise product line they've achieved significant success with. Rather than trying to beat Apple at a game they've consistently failed in, they should make a lateral move and leverage the team that knows how to compete.
post #63 of 116
To most of you, thanks for your help in validating my opinion of so many Apple fans. And incidentally, I only posted because the positions taken in the comment section here are so rabidly irrational. I'm certainly not getting paid to post here, or anywhere--but Microsoft, if you're reading, I'll take some cash if you're so inclined.
post #64 of 116
I don't know in which countries the Zune subscription is available but I am sure that even it is available worldwide a subscription model is a no go. Most of the phone users around the world use pre-payed cards for their mobile phones. $15 per month for music !? They will laugh at that. But they still buy iPods.

Honestly, I would be ashamed to own a Zune. And Zune sales were so pathetic that MS should be ashamed to even mention it as well. 1 million shipped to the channel during the first year? And how much now? Give me a break!

Call me paranoic but I have a feeling that MS is spending some of those $300 million budget paying trolls to post on dozens of boards like this to give the impression that someone actually cares about Zune. Really. I travel to Russia and Ukraine once in a couple of years and I know a lot of people who find the iPod too expensive and opt for Creative or no-name players but Zune? Even Windows fans there discard it as an option. Never bothered to think why. May be it is a branding issue. Would you buy Coca Cola branded sausages?
post #65 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

Who the heck plans to fill up an ipod with only music?!!

Oh yeah, Microsoft does not consider pictures, personal files, videos, podcasts, audiobooks, audio recordings, and games as things that might be used on an ipod...

besides, when buying a storage device we expect at least 2 to 5 gigs of free space as a safety net.

No doubt, this is an ad they did not clearly think through. People just wanting to listen to a few musical tracks aren't buying an iPod classic or a Zune, they get the higher end devices for movies on the go or to have the ability to store their entire music library & not just a few select songs.

As far as services go, I have no interrest. I rarely listen to the radio & much prefer listening to music in my collection. Truth be told though I'd rather have an iPod Touch than Classic (note Microsoft didn't even touch that one.) You can't play games, check e-mail, or surf the web on a Zune. Why does Microsoft even try, they are making the "Get a Mac" commercial about spending money on advertising instead of using it to fix Vista more & more true every day.

I personally want to see the windows desktop code sell off to someone else & let Microsoft just focus on server solutions, that's the one area I gotta say they are kicking Apple's tail right now (though we haven't seen snow leopard server yet).
post #66 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post

To most of you, thanks for your help in validating my opinion of so many Apple fans. And incidentally, I only posted because the positions taken in the comment section here are so rabidly irrational. I'm certainly not getting paid to post here, or anywhere--but Microsoft, if you're reading, I'll take some cash if you're so inclined.

What is so irrational about pointing out that subscription music model only appeals to a very small selection of people? What is irrational is to expect everyone to think it's a good model because you do despite evidence of it actually thriving.
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post #67 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post

To most of you, thanks for your help in validating my opinion of so many Apple fans. And incidentally, I only posted because the positions taken in the comment section here are so rabidly irrational. I'm certainly not getting paid to post here, or anywhere--but Microsoft, if you're reading, I'll take some cash if you're so inclined.

Please, the bashing that takes place here is absolutely light weight compared to the way Microsoft fannies talk about Mac in your little tech forums & blogs! Half of those forums can't even account for a single intelligent comment they are so blindly hate filled!

Last person who should be giving any Apple fan boy a lecture is a Microsoft fan boy. Hypocrites.
post #68 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

if you should read the article again and check the url of the site you're on, you might figure out why deceptive half truths and twisted logic from microsoft invokes passionate responses from an apple focused website. just a thought....

We should read the article again and check the url of the site we are on, we might figure out why deceptive half truths and twisted logic from apple invokes passionate responses from an apple focused website. just a thought....
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post #69 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post

You folks crack me up. If Apple had come out with a subscription service, you'd all be calling it the next best thing since sliced bread.

Let's look at the math here... For $14.95 a month, I get 10 songs to keep. So, I'm effectively paying roughly $5/month for unlimited access to the entire Zune Marketplace. That's $60 a year. The only way that math doesn't make sense is if I wouldn't be inclined to purchase at least 10 songs in any event. And even then, $14.95 for unlimited access would be a relative bargain.

What does this mean for me? Well, here's an example. The other day, a friend of mine mentioned a few artists that he's been listening to. I've never heard of them before, but I trust his opinion. And so, I opened the Zune software, searched for the bands, and clicked on the "Download" button for each and every one of their albums. In short order, I'd downloaded all of their songs, a total of about 350. I put them all into a playlist called "Tom's Recs."

Then, while I was walking my dog for the next few days, I selected that playlist and turn on shuffle. For those few hours, I enjoyed a nice selection of songs from three bands I'd never heard before. And the cost? $5.

Since I do that pretty much on a weekly basis, I typically download and enjoy access to over a thousand tunes a month. In a year, that's, well, about 12,000 tunes. Again, for $60. To enjoy the same experience with iTunes would cost me well over $10,000. Would I spend that much money on iTunes? Of course not. I'd simply enjoy access to a much more limited selection of music.

And sure, if I cancel the subscription, those songs disappear, but so what? I've enjoyed the use of them, and for a pittance. Complaining about losing them is like complaining about losing the use of a car when the lease runs out. And, I've had a very good opportunity to try out various kinds of music by various artists, and therefore can make much better informed purchasing decisions.

And, of course, nothing stopped me from ripping my own CDs to my Zune. They're all there, right next to their subscription buddies. And they'll still be there should I decide to cancel my subscription. All of that, on a player with a great UI, nice sound, and for a very reasonable price. It's great for video, podcasts, and audiobooks as well, with a handy auto-bookmarking feature and easy categorized access.

I can see someone finding fault with Microsoft's numbers. They're probably a bit inflated, but then again, that's marketing--something Apple's quite familiar with. But, the comments here are ridiculous in the extreme. If you want to pirate your music, fine, but that does nothing to position Apple in a better place than Microsoft. And the anti-Microsoft posts that do nothing to answer the reality of the ad are just sad.

Again, if Apple had originated a subscription service, you'd all be attacking everyone else for being so stupid as to "buy" their music. "Gosh," you'd say, "you idiots pay $.99 for EVERY song? Look at me, I download thousands of songs for only $49.99 a month." Because, of course, Apple wouldn't charge only $14.95 a month, and they wouldn't give you 10 songs to keep in the bargain.

You know what your problem is? In order for you to play your music you are stuck with a Zune. You have banked all your money on a company that will back out if the Zune won't be a success. The device will be just like windows be always out of date. With little innovation and creativity. Every two years or so ms just copies Apple. If they bring any other 'extra' functionality it will be implemented very poorly. You are even forced to combine to sit behind a dull pc and will always combine creativity with dullness. Pretty sad if you ask me. I don't know how long ms will hold it out for but I sure ain't betting my horses on it with a monthly subscription. We will see but as for now the consumer has spoken and ms is too late with too little.
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post #70 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by beg View Post

Zune Pass - $15 per month to keep 10 songs and listen to unlimited songs.

iTunes (assuming iPhone or iPod Touch) - $10 - $13 per month to keep 10 songs and listen to unlimited songs via AOL Radio, Last.fm, Pandora etc.

Also pretty sure MS's DRM locked files won't work on an iPod, so what exactly is MS"s point? It's really expensive if you're stupid to fill your iPod so use Zune Pass instead, oh but since Zune Pass doesn't work on iPod (or Mac) buy a POS Zune and throw away your iPod?

It'll take you 250 years and $45,000 to fill 120GB with ZunePass

Plus anyone with a 120GB already has plenty of music beforehand. That's why I have a 16GB iPhone and it is only 6GB filled with music. I don't have that much, I'm into J-Pop and I'm sure I wont find much of it on Zune Marketplace, just like it is with iTunes Store.

Plus history shows us that Microsoft can never be trusted.
Just look at PlaysForSure and MSN Music store.
http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006844.html

What if Microsoft discontinues the Zune?

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post #71 of 116
btw, are we having some lost sheep in this forum? Praising ms on something like the zune and its rental system isn't going to do you any good. If you were going praise them about their office suite the hey you might get a confirmation. But Zune is such a looser product that even aside from the so-called 'fanboy' respones you are able to beat your own ms logic. As already pointed out. Only a few people are willing to pay a subscription fee.
Posted by the door post at the post office the post man posted his last post-millennial post card with a Penny Black postage stamp via the Royal Post.
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Posted by the door post at the post office the post man posted his last post-millennial post card with a Penny Black postage stamp via the Royal Post.
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post #72 of 116
I use mac and pc, but i am an Amiga.

It´s pretty funny to see that Mac fans are just as dumb as PC fans. Knee jerk reactions, for every postive word there has to be 3 negative words. You could just as well be a PC, well you are of course, but a Microsoft powered PC
post #73 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I've wondered why Apple hasn't taken this issue head-on ages go, to get rid of it with barely any cost.

Simply offer an iTunes rental option as well, and let the marketplace decide.

It's not like they make a whole heck of a lot of margins from iTunes anyway.......

I seem to remember that Microsoft made a deal with record labels to give them a cut
of each Zune sale. This may have been required for the unlimited use of the libraries.
I doubt Apple would ever agree to such an arrangement. If I am remembering incorrectly,
a distinct possibility, then never mind.
post #74 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by K242 View Post

I use mac and pc, but i am an Amiga.

It´s pretty funny to see that Mac fans are just as dumb as PC fans. Knee jerk reactions, for every postive word there has to be 3 negative words. You could just as well be a PC, well you are of course, but a Microsoft powered PC

Hey,

If we were discussing NTFS vs HFS+, I would admit that NTFS is better than HFS+, mostly. As mentioned above, if you praised Office many would agree. But Zune... Give me a break.

Everybody has moments in his or her life one would prefer not to talk about because he or she is not proud of them and would prefer that never happened. In MS life, Zune is such a moment. They would better never mention it. There is no hope to resurrect it. Never. The iPod Classic, as the name suggests, is a scaled-up version of the old-generation device targeted to a limited audience which knows why they need it. Those audience needs a lot of space, presumably because these are the guys who have lot's of content to fit in already. But the add is not targeted towards those people. It just tries to misinform and spread FUD among the rest of the people. This time around the lie is so blunt it will make more damage IMO.
post #75 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post

The only way that math doesn't make sense is if I wouldn't be inclined to purchase at least 10 songs in any event.
...

And, I've had a very good opportunity to try out various kinds of music by various artists, and therefore can make much better informed purchasing decisions.

...

Again, if Apple had originated a subscription service, you'd all be attacking everyone else for being so stupid as to "buy" their music.

Your missing the point, only when you buy more than 15 songs a month this subscription service would begin to make sense. And the music fans I know of can't find that many new songs a month on average. Simply because a good new song is very rare. A bad or average song on the other hand is only a hindrance on a iPod for someone with music taste.
So more is less, I would say.
...

Trying out music is one of the strong points of the iTunes music store. It is fast and easy.
So sampling music is no problem at all. Also (internet) radio is an excellent way to hear new songs.
Downloading gigs to your media player isn't a smart move. The time alone is not worth the effort.

...

If Apple release a product or service that doesn't make sense, I am the first to say so.
So speak for yourself.

J.
post #76 of 116
There is name/phrase for the reasoning put forth by MS

M B F M

a polite way of saying
Male Bovine Fecal Matter
post #77 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post

You seem to be confused as to the model.

The 10 included songs are not DRMed WMAs. They're standard MP3s. Download them and own them, just as if you'd paid $.99 for them on iTunes. Play them on any device you want. Cancel the subscription, those songs are yours to keep. The only songs that stop working are songs you haven't purchased, either using the credits or by paying the standard purchase price.

So, again, you're paying $14.95/month for 10 songs to keep (MP3s) and unlimited access to the subscription service. Meaning, the subscription service is essentially $5/month.

Hope that clarifies things for you.


Why are you here? the Zune software doesn't run on a Mac and this is a Mac forum...... who are you going to convince?

wouldn't you be better off in a win/m$ dev forum whining about how it would expand the zune brand if the zune software ran on a Mac?

I would imagine VERY few here would go to the extra expense of buying a PC (or can they rent one?) just to then have to buy a Zune just to then have to pay the subscription in order to "benefit" when they already own a Mac and most likely if they are reading this thread, an iPod. this misses the whole hassle of actually having to deal with windows.

who says the $15 will remain at that price? we all know it will drift up once enough greed has registered in the record cartels eyeballs -- er i mean once enough people are suckered into a subscription model.
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
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post #78 of 116
I already have $30,000 of music, why would I want to trash it and pay $14.99 month for the rest of my life?
post #79 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow View Post

Hey,

If we were discussing NTFS vs HFS+, I would admit that NTFS is better than HFS+, mostly. As mentioned above, if you praised Office many would agree. But Zune... Give me a break.

Everybody has moments in his or her life one would prefer not to talk about because he or she is not proud of them and would prefer that never happened. In MS life, Zune is such a moment. They would better never mention it. There is no hope to resurrect it. Never. The iPod Classic, as the name suggests, is a scaled-up version of the old-generation device targeted to a limited audience which knows why they need it. Those audience needs a lot of space, presumably because these are the guys who have lot's of content to fit in already. But the add is not targeted towards those people. It just tries to misinform and spread FUD among the rest of the people. This time around the lie is so blunt it will make more damage IMO.

I have a 10GB 2nd gen(?) iPod, in many ways (except size and battery ) the best iPOD i have ever used. I am using a iPOD touch now, imho the worst music player Apple Brought to market. The Zune, well i only have limited experience since i don´t own one, but my friend at my office has one, and it´s not in anyway as bad as it´s made up to be, i even like the Zune application on the PC :-) One of my first reasons not to buy a Zune would be that i in many ways i will do anything not to hand Microsoft money, it would not be because the product as such is bad, because it is not.

My comment about knee jerk reactions was aimed at those that just dimiss this because it comes from Microsoft, if this was introduced by Apple it would be iJesus for music.
post #80 of 116
People are commenting that rental music has always failed in the past and aren't analysing why the model has failed. Is that because people don't want to rent music or because the rented music won't play on the leading (70% market share) music player?

There's a lot of talk from people here that kids don't want rental services and don't have a credit card neccessary to use such a service. Perhaps these people should look at the success of World of Warcraft. WoW is a monthly subscription service primarily aimed at kids that makes its publisher $1 billion a year in revenue. Yes, I do mean $1,000,000,000.

If Apple came out with a similar scheme I gaurantee that it would succeed. They could easily offer quarterly or annual gift cards in stores to allow kids and teens to use the service. If you're young, you don't already have a music collection like we do. Why wouldn't they want access to millions of tracks?
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