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Apple execs disclose options for boosting iPhone market share

post #1 of 95
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Apple executives said this week they believe the iPhone remains in its infancy and went on to -- somewhat uncharacteristically -- reveal a series of strategic measures they may employ in the near term to help grow the handset's share of the booming smartphone market.

The comments came during a meeting between senior company officials and analysts for Oppenheimer, who stopped at the iPhone maker's Cupertino-based campus Thursday as part of a bus tour that also swung by the headquarters of Synaptics, Trimble Navigation, Zoran, and Cypress Semiconductor.

In a report on the meetings issued to clients Friday, analyst Yair Reiner said Apple sidestepped his questions on new products but remained upbeat about the potential for "considerable" growth through share gains in two of its three core business segments: the Mac and iPhone.

On the Mac side, Apple indicated that some of its strongest prospects for share gains exist internationally, where growth has recently outpaced that of the U.S. For example, the company said last month that unit sales and revenue grew 5 percent and 18 percent, respectively, on a year-over-year basis in Europe compared to an 8 percent unit decline and 8 percent revenue increase in the Americas.

Meanwhile, Reiner wrote that the "iPhone is still in its early days and could gain share by: providing more functionality; lowering prices; growing geographically; or segmenting the market with different models."

Uncertain whether these assertions where those of the analyst or derived from specific comments by Apple, AppleInsider contacted Reiner for clarification. Surprisingly, the remarks came from management. "[T]hey are not saying they will necessarily do all of these," the analyst said. "This is basically the menu of options."

Still, the revelation is noteworthy given that it's the first time members of the company's leadership have expressed openly that they may be interested in catering to a broader demographic by fragmenting the iPhone line into a family of phones with materially distinct features and price points.

These comments may support the discovery of references to multiple new iPhone models in the company's pre-release builds of iPhone Software 3.0. The remarks on lower pricing are similarly interesting, though they've been made previously during earlier sit-downs with other analysts.

For his part, Reiner says he expects "some combination of all these" options to materialize over the next six months. In speaking to AppleInsider, he added that when it comes to segmentation of models, "Apple said that one thing would be a constant: iPhone will remain a software centric device."

Oppenheimer's visit to Apple's campus was the second in as many weeks by an equity research firm that provides ongoing coverage of the company. Last week, Kaufman Bros. analyst Shaw Wu made the trip in conjunction with a pack of investors that tagged along for the ride down from San Francisco..

In his write-up of the face-to-face encounter with Apple chief financial officer Peter Oppenheimer and Tom Boger, a senior manager in the company's Mac division, Wu similarly noted that no new product information was shed. However, he said he walked away from the sit-down with higher conviction in his "Buy" thesis on the company and a belief that Apple shares can support a higher trading multiple going forward.

"Apple seemed particularly excited about the China market but wouldn't comment on timing," he said, referring to the iPhone maker's prospects for capitalizing on the world's largest cell phone market, and suggesting a move into the region could come as early as this summer alongside new iPhones.

Government statistics indicate that there are more than 600 million wireless subscribers spread across the country, with market research firm iSuppli estimating that another 90 million are likely to sign up with a wireless provider this year. So the stakes are high and share ripe for the picking.

Both China Mobile, the world's largest wireless provider, and China Unicom, its smaller rival ranking second in the country, have both confirmed ongoing negotiations with Apple. However, recent reports indicate that momentum may have recently shifted in China Unicom's direction after talks between Apple and China Mobile, believed to be its first choice of partner with 415 million subscribers, reportedly broke down.

At the root of the issue were reported demands on the part of China Mobile that it be able to control the local version of the App Store. The carrier was also at one point said to be asking that Apple ship it iPhones with both Wi-Fi and 3G technology disabled for competitive reasons. And while there's no concrete information to suggest Apple would agree to make such concessions, references to "ChinaBrick" discovered in betas of iPhone Software 3.0 leave room for debate.

Apple could also approach China with a multi-carrier strategy, which turned out to be a healthy move in the land of Oz given that it led to increased competition, and ultimately more options for consumers, company officials told Wu during their meeting.

"In regards to new carriers beyond AT&T in the U.S., management commented that it remains happy with AT&T but that competition has been good and cited Australia as an example where there are three carriers carrying iPhone," Wu wrote.
post #2 of 95
It's not just the iPhone in particular that is in its infancy but the entire iPhone/Apps ecosystem. Apple really changed the ballgame and has all the other smartphone makers playing catch-up.

Apple started a new way of doing mobile computing. Thinking about it more now as I write this, perhaps it's the iPhone halo-effect that is in its infancy and the entire industry as a whole will have to re-think its strategies to compete on a new level.

I think the next 12-18 months will provide exciting opportunities in the industry as a whole.
post #3 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... "Apple said that one thing would be a constant: iPhone will remain a software centric device." ...

And yet no matter how many times this is said, there will probably still be someone (maybe on this very thread!), who will say that the announcement about segmenting the market with multiple models means that Apple is going to make one with a physical keyboard.
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post #4 of 95
What do you think...

If Apple stresses that the iPhone will be software centric as reported in AI's article, do you think that the iPhone can have one hardware but several iPhone OS's, like iPhone OS lite, iPhone OS, iPhone OS Pro? Of course that sounds too Microsoftish and their versions of their OS Vista... Basic, Home, Business, Premium, Extreme you get the point.

OR

Will Apple just have the one iPhone OS and have two or three physical handsets with different sizes, shapes, form factors, different chipsets, RAM, Memory, Price Points, etc.

EDIT: add a physical keyboard : )

It seems the option of multiple US carriers is out for the next year or so. What does anyone else think?

And

Does anyone think some of the above, either option, will be implemented this year?

I'd be interested to hear what others forecast what they think will happen in the next few months to the iPhone.

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post #5 of 95
Not only will their NOT be multiple iPhone OS's Apple are trying hard to unify the Mac and iPhone OS's as much as possible.

Apple likes its business goals to be nice and simple. Will they segment mobile products? Of course. Will they widen price points? Of course (they go together). Will they increase territories? Of course. Will they spread to multiple carriers? Of course. It ain't rocket science. The timing of all those things is much harder to predict however and will depend on developments that may be outside of Apple's control.

Its not the what its the when... that's the hard part.
post #6 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

What do you think...

If Apple stresses that the iPhone will be software centric as reported in AI's article, do you think that the iPhone can have one hardware but several iPhone OS's, like iPhone OS lite, iPhone OS, iPhone OS Pro? Of course that sounds too Microsoftish and their versions of their OS Vista... Basic, Home, Business, Premium, Extreme you get the point.

OR

Will Apple just have the one iPhone OS and have two or three physical handsets with different sizes, shapes, form factors, different chipsets, RAM, Memory, Price Points, etc.

EDIT: add a physical keyboard : )

It seems the option of multiple US carriers is out for the next year or so. What does anyone else think?

And

Does anyone think some of the above, either option, will be implemented this year?

I'd be interested to hear what others forecast what they think will happen in the next few months to the iPhone. ...

I think that it's obvious that there will be multiple devices in that there are already two right now (iPod touch and iPhone).

By saying it's "software centric" they imply that most or all of it's main features would be implemented in software, so that means variations between hardware models are likely to be size only or at least limited to the occasional extra sensor/button etc.

So there might be smaller ones (nano) and there might be larger ones (tablet), they will generally all be the same device. One would also expect that, they will all, (like the iPods) get smaller and thinner over time.

This means quite a huge range of possibilities and devices, but still rules out things like physical keyboards, sliders, spinners, flippers, etc.

All my opinion, YMMV.
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post #7 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I think that it's obvious that there will be multiple devices in that there are already two right now (iPod touch and iPhone).

By saying it's "software centric" they imply that most or all of it's main features would be implemented in software, so that means variations between hardware models are likely to be size only or at least limited to the occasional extra sensor/button etc.

So there might be smaller ones (nano) and there might be larger ones (tablet), they will generally all be the same device. One would also expect that, they will all, (like the iPods) get smaller and thinner over time.

This means quite a huge range of possibilities and devices, but still rules out things like physical keyboards, sliders, spinners, flippers, etc.

All my opinion, YMMV.

++

I think that's it exactly. I also think that Apple intends to use software to differentiate its mobile products in the larger market, which is why the endless hardware fetishism that surrounds each new "iPhone killer" so misses the point.

As far as is possible with current technology, the iPhone is nothing but software, that is, just enough hardware to support a screen where the UI and apps happen. Notice that Apples ads only ever show apps happening, whereas everyone else's ads almost never do, but choose to concentrate instead on glamor shots of the device itself, or sexy people brandishing same.

While I'm sure the iPhone will get things like higher res screens or higher res cameras or faster processors or more ram over time, Apple clearly intends their mobile platform to be a very simple thing: a screen with enough hardware to support the UI and apps. Everything else is secondary. Anything that compromises that is out, which is why I suspect that Apple will never make a smaller iPhone, having already determined that the current size is the smallest possible form factor that allows the UI to work the way they want.
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post #8 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

... Anything that compromises that is out, which is why I suspect that Apple will never make a smaller iPhone, having already determined that the current size is the smallest possible form factor that allows the UI to work the way they want.

I think that you're probably right about that but I hold out a tiny possibility that they might make a nano-ish version. When I was talking about smaller I was mostly referring to the fact that over time they will all of course shrink down to be as close to a simple screen as possible. You only have to handle the 2.0 iPod touch to all of a sudden realise how bulky the current iPhone 3G is and imagine it as an even smaller more svelte device.

I continue to hope that they come out with a 6x9 tablet soon. The keyboard on the iPhone is fantastic, but if it were just a little bit bigger it would really fly.
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post #9 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I think that you're probably right about that but I hold out a tiny possibility that they might make a nano-ish version. When I was talking about smaller I was mostly referring to the fact that over time they will all of course shrink down to be as close to a simple screen as possible. You only have to handle the 2.0 iPod touch to all of a sudden realise how bulky the current iPhone 3G is and imagine it as an even smaller more svelte device.

I continue to hope that they come out with a 6x9 tablet soon. The keyboard on the iPhone is fantastic, but if it were just a little bit bigger it would really fly.

True. I could see the top and bottom margins shrinking, as well.

However, I think there's some idea that an iPhone "nano" would be a cheaper alternative, and I don't think that's how it will go. If anything, the current version will become the "cheap" one, and newer, premium models will be slenderized/shortened.

Just my random theory, of course.
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post #10 of 95
How does the iPhone grow from infancy if it eventually stalls at some point unless it is made available to mutiple carriers in the USA?
post #11 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

How does the iPhone grow from infancy if it eventually stalls at some point unless it is made available to mutiple carriers in the USA?

That's purely hypothetical.
post #12 of 95
Quote:
"Apple said that one thing would be a constant: iPhone will remain a software centric device."

That makes perfect sense, because it's especially the software/OS where Apple excels. Anyone can make an iPhone-like device, but, few can come close to matching Apple's software and interface.
post #13 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

How does the iPhone grow from infancy if it eventually stalls at some point unless it is made available to mutiple carriers in the USA?

What part of the following: "....iPhone is still in its early days and could gain share by: providing more functionality; lowering prices; growing geographically; or segmenting the market with different models......" is difficult to follow?
post #14 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

That makes perfect sense, because it's especially the software/OS where Apple excels. Anyone can make an iPhone-like device, but, few can come close to matching Apple's software and interface.

Right, and it's exactly there that so many would be "iPhone killers" have fallen down. Phone manufacturers seemed to be convinced that if they just pile on enough hardware "features", then slap on any kind of a touch interface, they've got the iPhone beat.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, sweats the little details of user friendly interaction like Apple does. Of course, that in and of itself is not enough to insure the ongoing success of the iPhone platform, but I think they've already gone a fair ways towards establishing the idea that, if you want a smart phone that's easy and fun to use, the iPhone is it.
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post #15 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Oppenheimer's visit to Apple's campus was the second in as many weeks by an equity research firm that provides ongoing coverage of the company. Last week, Kaufman Bros. analyst Shaw Wu made the trip in conjunction with a pack of investors that tagged alone for the ride down from San Francisco..

Minor point: It should be "along."

Major point: Shaw Wu hosted by Apple management!? Nice.
post #16 of 95
The article is all pretty obvious stuff that most companies would follow. What isn't obvious is the best way to acheive this controlled and continued growth.

Multple carriers are out of the question at this point, where it can be, due to the ecosystem controll that Apple needs. I'd think that a second phone type would come about bi-annually to the main iPhone, to help spark new sales after the initial sale frenzy dies. Perhaps in January. Though I would think thus device would either have to be just a basic phone with iPod or have the same size display as the current iPhone with just all specs being low enough to be useful yet cheap enough to be a viable alternative. However, both of these have their own issues that Apple typically doesn't like.

Regardless, I think we have to get to a saturation point first. This next iPhone should give us some clues towards that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

What part of the following: "....iPhone is still in its early days and could gain share by: providing more functionality; lowering prices; growing geographically; or segmenting the market with different models......" is difficult to follow?

I'd wager it's the parts with words.
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post #17 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

What part of the following: "....iPhone is still in its early days and could gain share by: providing more functionality; lowering prices; growing geographically; or segmenting the market with different models......" is difficult to follow?

None- but where is MULTIPLE CARRIER IN THE US mentioned in all your ""s?
post #18 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

That's purely hypothetical.

True- we will just wait and see. Hopefully it expands into the US market further via other carriers. It's not impossible and highly desired by anyone who's satisfied with their current carrier and refuses to go to AT&T, whatever their present carrier is.
post #19 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Minor point: It should be "along."

Major point: Shaw Wu hosted by Apple management!? Nice.

It's not good enough just to post good financial results. You must also ensure that those results get noticed and people write about your company.

Letting Shaw Wu, who is world renowned for making wildly inaccurate predictions about Apple and then quietly revising them at the last minute so he can claim to have made accurate ones, on campus is just good PR.

As Oscar Wilde said, the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.
post #20 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The article is all pretty obvious stuff that most companies would follow. What isn't obvious is the best way to acheive this controlled and continued growth.

Multple carriers are out of the question at this point, where it can be, due to the ecosystem controll that Apple needs. I'd think that a second phone type would come about bi-annually to the main iPhone, to help spark new sales after the initial sale frenzy dies. Perhaps in January. Though I would think thus device would either have to be just a basic phone with iPod or have the same size display as the current iPhone with just all specs being low enough to be useful yet cheap enough to be a viable alternative. However, both of these have their own issues that Apple typically doesn't like.

Apple's tendency with this is to introduce new models that do more at the old price points, so that last year's midrange becomes this year's base model.

However, they do occasionally create a new price floor, and that's what I would guess will happen with the iPhone, with a $99 model that looks a lot like the current 8GB.

Of course, that doesn't address the real cost of ownership, which is the cell plan, so to really make "cheap enough to drive big increases in uptake" to work, they'll have to negotiate a reduced cost/bandwidth plan with AT&T.

With AT&T hot to extend their exclusive relationship, I would guess that Apple has some real leverage here.
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post #21 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Right, and it's exactly there that so many would be "iPhone killers" have fallen down. Phone manufacturers seemed to be convinced that if they just pile on enough hardware "features", then slap on any kind of a touch interface, they've got the iPhone beat.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, sweats the little details of user friendly interaction like Apple does. Of course, that in and of itself is not enough to insure the ongoing success of the iPhone platform, but I think they've already gone a fair ways towards establishing the idea that, if you want a smart phone that's easy and fun to use, the iPhone is it.

Completely agree. I'm old enough to remember the very first mobile phones, and I've owned many cellphones over the years. The Razr was one of my favorites, but, the interface and software was just horrible. When I got an iPhone and started using it, I knew I had a revolutionary device in the palm of my hands. Two years later and it's become "ho-hum" for some, but, I still marvel at the iPhone. It's the first cellphone that didn't require studying a manual for two days before I could use it.
post #22 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

True- we will just wait and see. Hopefully it expands into the US market further via other carriers. It's not impossible and highly desired by anyone who's satisfied with their current carrier and refuses to go to AT&T, whatever their present carrier is.

There have been some rumors about Verizon carrying the iPhone, if that happens, it will really start to make inroads. But I agree, the iPhone needs to move beyond AT&T to get the kind of market penetration that will make it a serious contender. AT&T has had 2 years to profit from the iPhone, it's time for Apple to spread the wealth to some other carriers which will increase adoption of the iPhone.
post #23 of 95
No quotes attributed directly to Apple even after the phone call?
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post #24 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

How does the iPhone grow from infancy if it eventually stalls at some point unless it is made available to mutiple carriers in the USA?

This was explained to you in another recent thread by at least two or three people. It's also referenced in this very article.

The size of the addressable market for the 3G iPhone *outside* of the USA, is orders of magnitude larger than the size of the market they are missing out on *inside* the USA by not having a CDMA phone.

The iPhone can continue growing (as the article above explicitly states), by expanding into international markets which so far have only been scratched on the surface. They could forget about the Verizon part of the market for years and years and it would have no impact on their sales or sales growth.

It would be nice for those customers if Apple made a CDMA phone, but they certainly don't have to do it to maintain their business or the rapid growth of same.
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post #25 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

It's not good enough just to post good financial results. You must also ensure that those results get noticed and people write about your company.

Agreed. But Apple is in no remote danger of not being written about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

Letting Shaw Wu, who is world renowned for making wildly inaccurate predictions about Apple and then quietly revising them at the last minute so he can claim to have made accurate ones, on campus is just good PR.

Disagree. I am not sure that someone (quote) ....renowned for...wildly inaccurate predictions...then quiety revising them..... (unquote) is a good PR ally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

As Oscar Wilde said, the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.

Oscar Wilde rocks. But see my first point above.
post #26 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

How does the iPhone grow from infancy if it eventually stalls at some point unless it is made available to mutiple carriers in the USA?

That may be the one thing they can't discuss so openly, all the other options seemed like relatively obvious ones, the uncharacteristic part of it is that they said that these may be under consideration.

They do get multiple carriers in some other countries. Apple doesn't seem to want to do a CDMA device, which is practically what is needed to get iPhone on a good competing carrier in the US, GSM in the US is pretty much AT&T, 2nd place is some carrier that barely offers 3G, and there's an asterisk behind that.

I don't think CDMA is really a hardware issue, I think Apple would easily be able to sell millions of CDMA iPhones, but they might lose the exclusivity kickback they get from AT&T.
post #27 of 95
Oppenheimer was one of that small cabal of hedge funds that held out on the bailout plan for Chrysler. Everyone else in the game agreed to take a hit and sell off their debt at a loss, but they wanted to hold out for a profit? (stuff snipped) Shame on Apple for sucking up to them. They should have let the Oppenheimer bus roll right on by on their tour.
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post #28 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

It's not good enough just to post good financial results. You must also ensure that those results get noticed and people write about your company.

Letting Shaw Wu, who is world renowned for making wildly inaccurate predictions about Apple and then quietly revising them at the last minute so he can claim to have made accurate ones, on campus is just good PR.

As Oscar Wilde said, the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.

Man, it must be nice to hide behind anonymity.

According to sites that measure such things, i.e., Analyst Performances, Shaw Wu has quite a history* for his accuracy, in particular re Apple. Otherwise Apple would not welcome his presence, or for that matter be on their preferred list of invitees to their financial conference calls.

* http://biz.yahoo.com/a/6/61497.html
post #29 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Oppenheimer was one of that small cabal of hedge funds that held out on the bailout plan for Chrysler. Everyone else in the game agreed to take a hit and sell off their debt at a loss, but they wanted to hold out for a profit? (stuff snipped) Shame on Apple for sucking up to them. They should have let the Oppenheimer bus roll right on by on their tour.

It is interesting you think people that put money in a company deserve nothing back and the union deserves everything . Sure glad you don't make the decisions for Apple. The union is getting what they have sown. Not going to be a good harvest and taxpayers are going to have to pay and pay . Our congress and senate made the rules and yet you call the investors , pigs. Guess you like socialism better than capitalism . Go to europe. They got plenty . Yuck.
post #30 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by drjjones View Post

It is interesting you think people that put money in a company deserve nothing back and the union deserves everything . Sure glad you don't make the decisions for Apple. The union is getting what they have sown. Not going to be a good harvest and taxpayers are going to have to pay and pay .

Unions sometimes are partially to blame, but in this case the UAW made significant concessions and management acknowledged it. But I guess you know more about Chrysler than their management does. The issue is not as black and white as you present it. Union pension funds are major investors so they have two dogs in the fight. Have a nice weekend--brought to you by the labor movement.
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post #31 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

There have been some rumors about Verizon carrying the iPhone, if that happens, it will really start to make inroads. But I agree, the iPhone needs to move beyond AT&T to get the kind of market penetration that will make it a serious contender. AT&T has had 2 years to profit from the iPhone, it's time for Apple to spread the wealth to some other carriers which will increase adoption of the iPhone.

2 years does not equal 5 years, the length of the contract between Apple and AT&T. When that contract expires, they'll sit down and talk about the future between them. In fact, all signs point to AT&T trying to extend that contract, if it hasn't happened already.

AT&T's not stupid. They know that they're in a symbiotic relationship with Apple. No way their recent gains would have been made without Apple, and vice versa. Before you go on to say that Verizon has a better network, etc., etc., understand that Verizon had first crack at the iPhone but with conditions, which would have severely hampered the iPhone. That should be your first indicaton that the deal with Verizon will suck unless they get out of their own way and let Apple do it their way, which is what AT&T had the vision for. It probably wouldn't have been the success that it has been to date had they gone with Verizon.

By all counts, Apple's happy with the "market penetration" thus far. Remember, their goal isn't to be ubiquitous, but to be the BMW of the computer/consumer electronic world. Fewer phones at a higher cost = more money than a ton of phones being given away.
post #32 of 95
In the land of Oz?

An editor actually let that out of the gate?
post #33 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porchland View Post

In the land of Oz?

An editor actually let that out of the gate?

Are you saying that slang for Australia is too fanciful for a business article? Just asking.
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post #34 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

2 years does not equal 5 years, the length of the contract between Apple and AT&T. When that contract expires, they'll sit down and talk about the future between them. In fact, all signs point to AT&T trying to extend that contract, if it hasn't happened already.

AT&T's not stupid. They know that they're in a symbiotic relationship with Apple. No way their recent gains would have been made without Apple, and vice versa. Before you go on to say that Verizon has a better network, etc., etc., understand that Verizon had first crack at the iPhone but with conditions, which would have severely hampered the iPhone. That should be your first indicaton that the deal with Verizon will suck unless they get out of their own way and let Apple do it their way, which is what AT&T had the vision for. It probably wouldn't have been the success that it has been to date had they gone with Verizon.

By all counts, Apple's happy with the "market penetration" thus far. Remember, their goal isn't to be ubiquitous, but to be the BMW of the computer/consumer electronic world. Fewer phones at a higher cost = more money than a ton of phones being given away.

The 5 year deal info came from Verizon, stating that that is what Apple offered, along with a bunch of stuff that Verizon would have never agreed to. It does seem more likely that AT&T and Apple originally inked a 2 year deal (with a one year addition for dropping profit sharing), but even that is speculative.

To go with a CDMA-based iPhone Apple has to create and test a new device. Sure, most of the HW is the same, but the part they have no experience in is new: cellular radios. I think the idea of Apple going with Verizon is not likely. If they aren't willing to go with multiple carriers in every country they can get away with it legally, despite the iPhone having already proved itself in the US market and the few EU countries it was in, why would we expect them to do in the US. Especially when doing so would ruin a big part of the ecosystem that it needs to work in the long run: The control over the carrier. I doubt they'd want to give that up. If it was just about handset sales they would have sold to multiple carriers in all those other all-GSM countries after the iPhone proved itself, but they didn't.

If Verizon were to make an CDMA iPhone for the US market I think Sprint would be the better candidate for them, not Verizon. Sprint is losing customers fast (they lost 17 Trillion just last week, no lie) and should be willing to spend more money and offer more control than Verizon would sine they are the largest network by subs, with the best overall coverage and well known for wanting control. There is just no reason to think Verizon would give Apple what they want at this point.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #35 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

To go with a CDMA-based iPhone Apple has to create and test a new device. Sure, most of the HW is the same, but the part they have no experience in is new: cellular radios.

?

How did they manage to get the current iPhone out without getting experience in cellular radios? They started from somewhere, I don't see how that's suddenly a problem with a different standard.
post #36 of 95
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Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

How did they manage to get the current iPhone out without getting experience in cellular radios? They started from somewhere, I don't see how that's suddenly a problem with a different standard.

It's an issue they have to deal with. They didn't exactly do a bang up job with the first two iPhone radios. There is definite improvement but they still aren't at the level of their competition. CDMA will offer many of the same initial issues as the first iPhone while some aspects will carry over from what they've learned so far.

Regardless, if they still choose not to sell their handset to all GSM-based carriers in a given country (where laws don't require them to) why should we expect them to make a 2nd handset type for the US?

edit: "no experience" was not the best choice of words. How about limited or recent experience, instead?
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post #37 of 95
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Originally Posted by drjjones View Post

It is interesting you think people that put money in a company deserve nothing back and the union deserves everything . Sure glad you don't make the decisions for Apple. The union is getting what they have sown. Not going to be a good harvest and taxpayers are going to have to pay and pay . Our congress and senate made the rules and yet you call the investors , pigs. Guess you like socialism better than capitalism . Go to europe. They got plenty . Yuck.

Here Here!

"TRAVEL is Fatal to Prejudice,Bigotry,Narrowmindedness"mt

TRY IT!

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"TRAVEL is Fatal to Prejudice,Bigotry,Narrowmindedness"mt

TRY IT!

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post #38 of 95
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Originally Posted by P L View Post

Here Here!

DrJJones edited his original post rather than respond directly. If you think Europe is pure socialism and the U.S. is pure capitalism you're incredibly naive. Both have some of each. Most Americans are very happy having "socialist" institutions like social security, medicare, police, fire departments, public schools and colleges, and the military. Yes, we could privatize them all, but most Americans would resist that with great vigor. There are limits to what profit motive can deliver. I like capitalism in my business sector--its the best system. But unregulated or under-regulated capitalism, including the "piggish" greed that led to the mortgage meltdown, are the result. No system is the perfect answer for everything. It takes a balance. Telling people to who don't see it your way to leave the country is un-American. It reminds me of those who were hawks during the Vietnam war putting bumper stickers on their cars saying "America: Love It Or Leave It." The right may not have a monopoly on "Knownothing-ism" but they sure have their fair share of it. I am a Vietnam vet--did two tours of duty in the war zone so don't play the I'm more patriotic than you card.
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post #39 of 95
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Originally Posted by drjjones View Post

Our congress and senate made the rules and yet you call the investors , pigs.

Not the investors, those who run that particular hedge fund. Hell, I'm an investor. I also think it's piggish behavior to lend money to those who can't possibly pay it back, because the "rules" allow you to make huge profits by packaging those bad investments and passing them off to others. Not all capitalists are saints. AIG anyone?
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post #40 of 95
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Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Not all capitalists are saints.

Understatement of the year!
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