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Apple fires its return salvo as Microsoft issues misleading 5th ad - Page 4

post #121 of 321
I love to play the devil's advocate so let me start by bringing everyone down to earth by stating the Mac ads are just as disingenuous as the PC ads.

Most of the ads feature vague and non-descriptive reasons by PC's are worse. They use "viruses" and "issues" but tell me that you haven't had one 'issue' on a Mac ever? I had Time Machine stop working and killed a backup, 10.5.6 broke the connection between my Mac Pro and my HDMI LCD and a few updates ago my Mail.app stopped working and my 2007 iMac would get into random reboot loops that had to be fixed with an update. (Plus you do remember 10.1 - 10.3 right?)

I love my Mac but I've had just as many 'issues' since OS 9 -> Leopard as I have since Windows 98 -> Vista and both companies are just spreading bunk PR garbage to get you to buy their stuff. It's called 'advertising.' =)
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post #122 of 321
I've got an idea of how to address the latest MS ad campaign of "You find it, You keep it".

But this time have two separate shoppers who are looking for a laptop.

This time however don't just talk about screen size and speed but also talk about what to do with it; word processing, spreadsheets, edit photos, edit video, create a web page etc.

(In 1979 the program "VisaCalc" is released as a spreadsheet for the Apple computers. This drives the the Apple computer beyond the 1 million mark in sales. VisaCalc (or Visible Calculator) was created by: Dan Bricklin with some help of his friend Dan Fylstra. The software program alone is responsible for more computer sales than can be guessed at. For the first time, software drives the computer industry, and the term "Killer App" is coined.)

The one shopper goes online schedules a personal shopper at a Apple Store and takes straight to the MacBook Pro and gets quick personal service and schedules training while she's there.

The other shopper searches and find the PC to find comparable hardware and then starts shopping for the software.

(I'll assume the price is going to be close.)

Finally leaving the PC buyer stops and says, "Oh shoot, I forget virus protection software" and returns back into the store.

It might also be great if you could then show a "next day or days later" when the PC shopper at home installing the software on their own and looking through the manual to learn how to use it with some sense of frustration. Then go the Mac buyer at a training session at the Apple Store having a great time learning all the features and ease of use.

You could use a tag with the narrator saying something like, "CHEAPER ISN'T ALWAYS BETTER AND APPLE/MAC PROVES IT".

PLUS - If you wanted to keep along your I'm a Mac theme you could have the actors playing those rolls at the beginning with the two shoppers in the White Screen set then as a break from the norm going along with them on the shopping spree observing.

I don't know that you could do it in a 30/60 second spot but it sure would be cool.
post #123 of 321
Apple has a problem with a limited product line.

Glossy Screens are simply bad, especially for Pro's/long use.

Apple should innovate, make any computer easily switch from

glossy or matte by Apple Store techie before purchase.


Will NOT buy a glossy Mac, Apple needs to fix that fast for all models.


Now PC we have a choice, but then no OS X.

I like my 15" matte Macbook Pro with Fusion, Vista, XP and Ubuntu.

But I need new one, with no gloss.

COME ON APPLE!!
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #124 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by imapcandmac View Post

Really, I thought I was the first ever. Thank you for correcting me!

A lot of Mac users aren't cognizant, just read the forums.

New Macs do come with iLife but you must purchase every year to stay current. I wouldn't say this is absolutely free. iPhoto sucks as it is not a real photo editor and forces a directory structure on the user. Picasa is much better and free as an organizer and PhotoShop Elements is a great cheap editor. Too bad the Mac version is always a year behind. Windows Photo Gallery that comes with Vista is better than iPhoto IMO. iMovie is a joke anymore and not much better than Movie Maker. I would recommend buying a better video editor. iDVD is very limited and there are free alternatives for the PC. Likewise, there are several free Web creators for the PC with more capability. I personally have not used GarageBand much (nor do I know many that have) so I cannot comment.

Oh they're cognizant they're just having fun at Windows expense. This is an Apple centric forum. Yes new Mac come with iLife which of course is free of charge their their plight is no different than the PC user who purchases the Adobe product knowing there will be future upgrades to better product. Picasa is horrible it was a good looking interface for managing photos like 4 years ago and Google pretty much added features bet let the UI languish. The Picasa fans talk about stuff that doesn't matter to people like "I want to be able to manage my file structure" Puhleeze. Picasa was left in the dust the minute Apple went Events and the new version is so much better than Picasa I downloaded the dmg for Picasa and then deleted it. No value whatsoever. Also keep in mind the photos in your iPhoto library show up in any application that supports the media browser. That's a cool feature.

Oh please tell me what's a joke about iMovie 09. This should be fun....tell me what I'm missing out on so much. I have realtime effects and transitions. I have the ability to edit easily with a good degree of accuracy and fine control. If you need a timeline and plugins and the like you're better off with Final Cut Express or some other third party app. Someone give me a cogent argument as to why iMovie 09 isn't the "right" application to get the new video editor into the game? The people bitchin' about iMovie are the ones that should be using Final Cut Express Vegas or something. Champagne tastes on a beer budget.

iDVD is dead. Apple doesn't care about optical formats anymore and that includes Blu-ray. Why would take the CPU time to to 2-pass DVD encoding when I can just export my video creation to a quicktime format and play on an Apple TV or put up on my website. DVD is passe but it's nice to be able to burn the DVD disc every now and then.

You keep tossing out the FREE mantra ....you have a Mac but you don't even understand the benefits. Every cheap app you think you're gaining with you're losing if it doesn't have the type of integration Mac users expect. I expect my media to be available in other apps and thus if it's free but my files don't show up in Media Browsers in other apps it's a non starter.

PC are great if you look at a computer as just another tool laying around. Macs are great when you see the touches that OS X to integrate apps via the services menu or media browsers or system wide calendar and address book along with data detectors.

Keep digging....you have a Mac...but you don't understand it yet.



Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness View Post

I can build my own PC, even throwing in an OEM copy of Windows, or free ISO of Ubuntu, and build it with better specs than just about any OEM PC, and and Apple (easily). DDR3, quad-core, Lian Li/Cooler Master case, etc.

When I got my Mac (C2D Mini) about a year and a half ago, I was all geeked about iLife 08 too, but then I came to the conclusion, I don't make web pages, don't make music, and don't have a camcorder, and then I was basically left with only iPhoto, but I don't like that either.


They work, I don't worry about it.

Macs have always appealed to creative types. I love music and films and thus I fall right into their historically core market. If a person just does basic document creation and web stuff I don't think a Mac is going to appeal all that much to them


I'll tell you my mother's ran her law practice on XP and now Vista and she's ready to be done. She's had to pay hundreds to fix problems here and she got bitten by the 64-bit Vista driver issue which caused her Scansnap to fail to work. Windows 7 could be her savior but right now a Mac and a few months and I think she's a convert. I gotta think she's not the only one. Should she know more about maintenance of her PC? Perhaps but she's got a huge case load and no IT staff...I don't think a PC is the ideal platform for her. All she needs is Office for compatibility and a few PC programs that she likes that would easily run in Parallels or Fusion.
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post #125 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Security is about technical measures......etc etc etc

If you are going to quote people, Quad, then at least provide an attribution.
post #126 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Apple has a problem with a limited product line.

Glossy Screens are simply bad, especially for Pro's/long use.

COME ON APPLE!!


Consumers have by and large chosen glossy screens. I really don't buy the whole Pros don't use glossy screens because I've sold Pro monitors before and hey always come with hoods to block out relections and many come with calibration hardware.

CRTs always had a bit of gloss and reflections because they weren't a flat surface.
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post #127 of 321
Paying a little more for a Mac only stings for the first day... then it's 5 years of pure joy.

Going the Windows route, you may pay less but the aggravation stays with you forever.
post #128 of 321
Would you like some kook aid with that statement??


A few years ago you could by a g5 then save thousands upgrading your own memory. Apple saw an end to that. Bufoon. Are mac pros servers? Of course not. Could a mac pro been built with different CPU and regular memory? Of course it can but they didn't and this kept the price high, artificially too as a macpro with standar memory and i7 would be much cheaper but they didn't so now they are over priced server parts. Try comparing a mac pro to a pc workstation that's not server parts. The reason it high is due to server parts. Pass the Kool aid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MFago View Post

Sorry, it's not so simple.

Try to price out a Dell similar to a top-of-the line Mac Pro with 8x 2.93 GHz Xeon 5570, 12 GB Memory:

Apple: $6300
Dell: $9000

The only way to get a PC with specs similar to the Apple is to buy from lesser-known brands (i.e. AVADirect) or build it yourself. The only limitation of the Apple is 8 memory slots versus 12.

Macs certainly can be more expensive because there are fewer models available so Apple cannot (and does not want to) hit every price point. Apple tries not to make crap. There are plenty of crappy PCs available, such as the ones Microsoft points to in their ads. Apple's prices are usually pretty comparable at the high-end. It's the low-end that needs some help.
post #129 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Consumers have by and large chosen glossy screens. I really don't buy the whole Pros don't use glossy screens because I've sold Pro monitors before and hey always come with hoods to block out relections and many come with calibration hardware.

CRTs always had a bit of gloss and reflections because they weren't a flat surface.

Here is my response to such a comment on another forum (copy and pasted so excuse the dialog):

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick9191 View Post

So do that then. The big difference between the two panels is that glossy reflects light back whilst matte disperses the light over it's surface. So if your working in a lit room, it is negatively effecting your work in some way or another, however little. The difference, again as the article states, is that most people can "look through" reflections, no one can "look through" a washed out display.

Incorrect. Again, please reread my explanation(s). The glossy display OVER-SATURATES images, making it much more difficult to photoshop or image edit. They may certainly look pretty and bright, but the Apple GLOSSY LED LCD is "pumping up" the image to above normal levels. Therefore, when other displays view the image it is nothing similar to what the Apple glossy display outputs. Secondly, prints from the Apple high gloss LED LCD displays will almost certainly be much darker than what the glossy LED LCD outputs. NO ONE, and I mean, NO SERIOUS photography or graphics PROFESSIONAL EVER uses a high gloss screen. Not if they want to keep their clients happy and producing quality work. The article is merely speaking in terms of consumer use and does not address actual professional quality usage. As such, in order to be certain that the display does not have a reflection, adjusting the brightness of the screen to the brightness of the room is essential. In doing so, actual image quality, consistency and brightness is sacrificed. (calibrating does not take this into effect, especially for image/photoshop editing)

Quote:
Why at night? Thats like saying look at a glossy display when it's off, you don't look at it when it's off, you look at it when it's on. Try looking out your window in the middle of the day, and turning your light on and off, no difference.

Again,
"... in order to be certain that the display does not have a reflection, adjusting the brightness of the screen to the brightness of the room is essential. In doing so, actual image quality, consistency and brightness is sacrificed." My example of turning the lights on and off was to demonstrate what happens when interior light ambience does not match the brightness/light of the glossy LED LCD. In order to be certain that no reflection is shown on the glossy screen, the high gloss screen and room have to have the same brightness level (basic physics). In doing so, actual image brightness and quality is NOT taken into account, and as such quality of image is sacrificed.

If you need to understand how that matters than there really isn't any way I can explain it better for you. Either you are a professional graphic designer/editor/photographer or you're not, either way, the new Apple LED LCD's are NOT PRO-sumer grade hardware.

Quote:
There are many photographers and graphics designers on here that use glossy displays. The 24" LED costs $899, meaning that professionals are buying it, consumers don't pay $899 for a display.

Ok, so by this logic if it IS expensive than it must certainly be PRO quality??? No. As such, a true graphics professional (and by this I am referring to the Liebovitz's, Ive's, etc of the world) buy EIZO or higher grade displays that start out at $1500 and go from there.

(NOTE: It is important to realize that the Apple LED LCD's are not simply "glossy" but rather "high gloss" displays)
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post #130 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

These Microsoft Ads are really hurting Mac for them to revolt.

lol

There is no evidence to suggest this. Apple has posted a record non-holiday quater recently . . . in a recession! Apple is virtually recession-proof (so far.)

I don't know why you'd assume MS' ads are "hurting" Apple. Apple sells on margin, not volume. The bulk of MS' market has nothing to do with Apple beyond the iPod.

MS seems to be the one forced to eat losses and lay employees off. MS stock has been sliding for a few years now. They've gone from 96%+ market share to 88.9% over the span of 2-3 years, which is substantial. And IE's share has been in a steady nosedive for a while now.

These Mac ads are simply part of the ebb and flow of the yearly Mac ads. There have been many, with many different themes. If one of the most recent ones is an answer to MS ads, it's purely because Apple has an opportunity to do so. But the message has been the same since 2006, and it's been quite successful. This new ad is really no different.
post #131 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by imapcandmac View Post

It is funny to see Apple feel the need to respond to the Microsoft ads. I would think Apple would be above this if they were not worried about the ads.

If Apple does not respond, then only one side of an arguement is shown. :-)

Quote:
I use own a PC and a Macbook Pro and run Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux regularly. I love my Macbook Pro but I have had Mac OS X lock up and have had to do 'Forced Quits' more on the Mac than the PC (running Vista and Windows 7). I have found the the Mac vs. PC ads filled with lies and half truths for a long time. It is funny that as soon as Microsoft plays this deception game that the Apple cult following gets their panties in a bunch.
,,,

My MacBook locks up too occasionally, usually when running Windows Word.... :-( And by the way, Force Quit allows me to dump MS Word and yet keep everything else running. I cannot do that in windows where a crash is a total crash. PERIOD.. Just a thought. :-)

Trolling for hits here??? The Mac vs PC ads actually say very little. They have only made true claims backed by fact. Or funny comments. ie PC hiding in a pizza box trying to capture a college student.. LOL Windows pays someone to buy a computer and yet the keep getting the cheap version. You know, cheap crap is always best. :-)

Just a thought,
en
post #132 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I don't know why you'd assume MS' ads are "hurting" Apple. Apple sells on margin, not volume.

He always postes anti-Apple stuff. Never any attempt at a balanced post. If anything, these MS adds have helped Apple find more material for their long running "Get A Mac" ads.

I predict we'll see an uptick in Windows sales (even excluding netbooks) and an increase in Windows marketshare and s light slowing of IE's drop in marketshare after Windows 7 hits the shelves.
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post #133 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidfcp View Post

Seriously I don't know what planet some of you are on.

Vista us not cheap. Yes it's a dud but windows 7 won't be .....Really some if you have fan boy glasses that are way to thick.

XP is on more computers than anything else and have you see mobile 6.5?? It's a huge advacemen........, stop calling windows cheap, they are not,yes, some hardware is but not all, eg Sony.

One big sale and windows owns any hardware they want but then all the whiners cry foul so grow up. Microsoft can do almost anything and ... Really. Some if the posts in here are so juvinile and misinformed. Unbelievable.

Speaking of growing up.... I think Avidfcp needs to get out of his mothers basement once in a while. :-)

And he makes a great case.... Just look at all the great things M$ is ...... going..... to ...... have.....:
Windows mobile 6.5
Windows mobile 7.0
Windows 7

And behave or M$ will buy you... They are so powerful, they can own the world and be its ruler.... if they wanted to. :-(

PS. I think Steve Ballmer talked to this guy directly. And made many many promises. LOL

Just a thought.
en
post #134 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

For someone calling others out about "lies and half truths" this statement is pretty hilarious.

You're either telling some half truths and lies yourself, or you don't know what you're doing.

Man, you fanboys are sensitive! I never said OS X had 'forced quits' a lot, just more than Windows in more recent experience. Seriously, since I have been running Vista, I cannot recall one lock up. Under OS X, I get one about every two weeks or a month, mostly in Safari or Firefox.

It is also funny how people are saying I must not know what I am doing. It is pretty easy to run an app that came on the computer. When someone says their PC locked up, it is obviously MSFT's problem. However, when a Mac locks up, it is because the person is an idiot or bad third party software. You guys are too funny!

For the record, I love my Macbook Pro because I can run OS X, Windows, and Linux on one box. I also like Windows and have had very good luck running many applications for years. There are good parts of both. I am just tired of Mac users and Apple claiming that Windows sucks, locks up all the time, and you get viruses within 30 seconds of turning your computer on. It is simply not true.

The fact is that many people are very satisfied with a cheaper computer that runs the basics just fine. What is wrong with that?
post #135 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldernorm View Post

My MacBook locks up too occasionally, usually when running Windows Word.... :-( And by the way, Force Quit allows me to dump MS Word and yet keep everything else running. I cannot do that in windows where a crash is a total crash. PERIOD.. Just a thought. :-)

You ever hear of task manager?
post #136 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by imapcandmac View Post

You ever hear of task manager?

He did say, total crash. If he is running XP, like most people are still using then an app crash can bring down the whole system. I know Vista and Win7 have it and I think XP included something like it, but I don't think it was true protected memory.
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post #137 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

He did say, total crash. If he is running XP, like most people are still using then an app crash can bring down the whole system. I know Vista and Win7 have it and I think XP included something like it, but I don't think it was true protected memory.

I used XP for years and an app crash hardly ever caused a total crash. Have you ever used Windows?
post #138 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

These MS ads are getting better each time. They aren't as enjoyable as the Mac ads but I think MS is effective in conveying its point. I love healthy rivalry!


PS: Thank you AI for using an iPhone compatible codec for the video.

If it makes Apple lower their price points then I'm all for the ads.

Keep them coming MS. I need another Mac!

If anyone can direct me to a better PC app than iMovie then I might be tempted to get a PC. Nah, not really.
post #139 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by imapcandmac View Post

I used XP for years and an app crash hardly ever caused a total crash. Have you ever used Windows?

Your "Have you ever..." comments are wearing thin. Your anecdotal experience has nothing to do with various versions of Windows being to prevent a systemwide crash.

Have you ever heard of Blue Screen of Death? Do you have any idea why it was named as such and how it often was not caused by a Windows app or directly by the OS but by a 3rd-party app being able to take down the entire machine and why protected memory was needed to begin with?
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post #140 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

If anyone can direct me to a better PC app than iMovie then I might be tempted to get a PC. Nah, not really.

Here are couple:

Avid Xpress Pro

http://www.avid.com/products/Xpress-Pro/index.asp
Sony Vegas Pro 9 http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegaspro There is always Final Cut Pro for Mac and the Mac version of Avid, which are better than iMovie, but for the consumer, iMovie should more than fit their needs.

But if you really a sweet setup for Windows I'd go with this one.
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post #141 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If he is running XP, like most people are still using then an app crash can bring down the whole system.

Not true. It is not possible in XP for an application crash to affect the entire system. User space and kernel space are cleanly separated just the same as in OS X.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Have you ever heard of Blue Screen of Death? Do you have any idea why it was named as such and how it often was not caused by a Windows app or directly by the OS but by a 3rd-party app being able to take down the entire machine and why protected memory was needed to begin with?

That may have been the case with Windows 9x systems, but a BSoD in NT (including 2000, XP, Vista, etc.) is no different than a kernel panic in Unix (including Mac OS X): a crash that happens in kernel space, rather than user space. And that brings us right back on topic: if you do follow Microsoft's advice and "save" money by buying some cheapo laptop based purely on specs, chances are the manufacturer skimped on driver quality. So when a driver has a bug, it can cause a crash, and since drivers tend to be in kernel space, there's your BSoD.
post #142 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Your "Have you ever..." comments are wearing thin. Your anecdotal experience has nothing to do with various versions of Windows being to prevent a systemwide crash.

Have you ever heard of Blue Screen of Death? Do you have any idea why it was named as such and how it often was not caused by a Windows app or directly by the OS but by a 3rd-party app being able to take down the entire machine and why protected memory was needed to begin with?

I think that was my first 'have you ever' comment. Have you ever learned to count?

Please enlighten me, exactly how often was the BSOD caused by a 3rd party app taking down the entire machine. Do you have real numbers or anecdotal evidence?

If you don't like my posts, don't read them!
post #143 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by sesnir View Post

Going the Windows route, you may pay less but the aggravation stays with you forever.

Nicely put
post #144 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by imapcandmac View Post

I think that was my first 'have you ever' comment. Have you ever learned to count?

"Have you ever..." and "You ever hear..." fall into the same category. Now you're up to 3 of them.
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post #145 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker View Post

Not true. It is not possible in XP for an application crash to affect the entire system. User space and kernel space are cleanly separated just the same as in OS X.

Wikpedia states that Windows has had protected memory since Win2000, but I've seen many BSODs that would only happen with certain apps running or trying to perform certain tasks. I didn't think it was until SP2 that they got true protected memory, but that does appear to be incorrect. Since my experiences were not conjured and there obviously are ways for a poorly coded app to bring down WinXP, it must have happened another way. Perhaps it was a storage violation.
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post #146 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by imapcandmac View Post

Man, you fanboys are sensitive! I never said OS X had 'forced quits' a lot, just more than Windows in more recent experience. Seriously, since I have been running Vista, I cannot recall one lock up. Under OS X, I get one about every two weeks or a month, mostly in Safari or Firefox.

Well, I usually don't answer anyone who is lame enough to use the "fanboy" statement because it's like wearing one of those "I'm a Moran" T-shirts.

If you actually believe there is such a thing as "fanbois" you're ideas are pretty much intellectually bankrupt to begin with. Also, this thread is overflowing with astroturfers as it always is when the issue at hand is a Microsoft advertisement.

Having already made the exception though ... yeah, I can pretty much state with great authority that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

For starters you're either not clear yourself, or purposely trying to confuse the difference between, "my app locked up," "my app is not responding," "the computer froze" and "I had to restart." These are all different things on windows and/or on a Mac so already, you seem to be just pushing a lot of generalised crap about nothing and trying to sound knowledgeable based on bullsh*tting your way through these issues.

You don't talk like anyone who knows anything about computers. Your arguments are littered with little things that make me believe that your experience is limited to the last couple of years using Windows and a single, abortive, and very recent attempt to get to know OS-X.

Since you might even be an astroturfer yourself, I don't think I'm going to bother to go through your stuff and point out all the errors as I intended. It's a sunny day where I am and I have a hangover so I think sitting outside in the yard is preferable to having an argument with the likes of you.

However, I will tell you that it's pretty obvious (and has been for years), which system is more crash-prone when you are comparing UNIX (Mac) to almost anything else (Windows). So arguing that Macs "crash more" or that Windows is "more stable" or anything like that is again, kind of like putting on that "I'm a Moran" T-Shirt.

Arguing after the fact that you are right about this when multiple knowledgeable individuals tell you otherwise just makes you look even more foolish.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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post #147 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Wikpedia states that Windows has had protected memory since Win2000, but I've seen many BSODs that would only happen with certain apps running or trying to perform certain tasks. I didn't think it was until SP2 that they got true protected memory, but does appear incorrect. Since my experiences were not conjured their obviously was other ways for a poorly coded app to bring down WinXP. Perhaps a storage violation.

Before Service Pack 3, XP was garbage. What a dog that OS was. Once 2005 came to a close I got rid of that cap faster than a bad habit and switched to OS X.

Of course, YMMV, but that's really saying something when so far may users think XP was still the best of the bunch. Yikes!
post #148 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

The Macintosh was never created as the computer for everyone. It was more like the computer for everyone who was willing to pay a premium.

Frankly I like that Macs come with a premium though it cuts both ways and sometimes even I get frustrated but the reality is I like a lot of things that Apple does.


I like that they don't succomb to putting 50 different logos on their computers. I think I can find out that an Apple TV has a HDMI port without having the sticker on the front.

I like that Apple doesn't install much nagware ..in fact I've never had my mac say "your trial period is up ...give us money if you wish to continue" Desktops for sale suck. Even with iPhoto photobooks or printing supplies its there as an options but you aren't harassed about it.

I like that Apple has the balls to move forward.

Getting rid of floppies
Moving to USB
Moving to Displayport
Supporting digital display output (DVI)


How long did it take PC vendors to get rid of parallel ports for chrissake?

Sorry. Apple doesn't ship 17" laptops with GMA graphics. They don't ship 4 pin non-powered Firewire. They don't add card readers to their computers so that you can save $15 on that cheapo Wal Mart reader.

What they do is make elegant computers that are highly functional to the skilled computer user. They made Unix accessible and attractive.

So I don't give damn if a PC user doesn't understand their lineup or doesn't recognize the beautiful and sturdy unibody casing or understand Apple's philosophy. Chances are you're simply not a Apple customer and more better suited to a PC anyways.

Thank you!
post #149 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

These MS ads are getting better each time. They aren't as enjoyable as the Mac ads but I think MS is effective in conveying its point.

i'm sorry but i disagree. they focus on only 1 point, price, and we all know that you get what you pay for
post #150 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFago View Post

Sorry, it's not so simple.

Try to price out a Dell similar to a top-of-the line Mac Pro with 8x 2.93 GHz Xeon 5570, 12 GB Memory:

Apple: $6300
Dell: $9000

The only way to get a PC with specs similar to the Apple is to buy from lesser-known brands (i.e. AVADirect) or build it yourself. The only limitation of the Apple is 8 memory slots versus 12.

Even less simple: Dell uses registered DIMMs in configurations higher than 4GB. Apple uses cheaper unbuffered ECC memory in all configurations.

Quote:
Macs certainly can be more expensive because there are fewer models available so Apple cannot (and does not want to) hit every price point. Apple tries not to make crap. There are plenty of crappy PCs available, such as the ones Microsoft points to in their ads. Apple's prices are usually pretty comparable at the high-end. It's the low-end that needs some help.

Honestly, they don't need that much help just a little break from the black and white thinking that only series a generic consumer with one set of tasks and a generic professional with another. Reality is nowhere near that neat and tidy. The grey area in between is vast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sesnir View Post

Paying a little more for a Mac only stings for the first day... then it's 5 years of pure joy.

Going the Windows route, you may pay less but the aggravation stays with you forever.

Its real easy to get stuck with a Mac that doesn't suit your needs these days and believe me that's just short of windows level frustration.
post #151 of 321
I just watched all three new ads. First, Apple doesn't "directly reference" the Microsoft ads at all. That would require Apple to mention the Microsoft ads in it's own ads, which Apple doesn't do. Perhaps, you mean Apple addresses the underlying false premises put forth in Microsoft's ads without referencing Microsoft or it's ads at all.

Second, Apple arguably isn't doing anything it hasn't done in the past. Namely, harp on perceived Microsoft weaknesses like poor security and support.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

After appearing to remain aloof to Microsoft's jabs that Macs don't give enough choice, Apple has responded with ads which insist that poor Windows PC choices are no choices at all.

Two of the three new TV spots debuting this week directly reference Microsoft's "Laptop Hunters" ads, which since their debut in March have insisted that Windows PCs offer more choice for less money.
post #152 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxy View Post

i'm sorry but i disagree. they focus on only 1 point, price, and we all know that you get what you pay for

They're also focusing on configurations which is where Apple comes up short. You can't get a consumer 15" or 17". If you want those screen sizes, you have to get the absolute top of the line.
post #153 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

Don't know about others but to me, her voice is so annoying it might as well be a broken record.

Ah, with a name like 'satchmo' I can understand why the quality of voice is important.......
post #154 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

If you are going to quote people, Quad, then at least provide an attribution.

Should have provided a link . .

http://threatpost.com/blogs/snow-leo...y-all-relative

I only really subscribe to a specific part of what he says (follow the link on the site for the whole article.)
post #155 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

They're also focusing on configurations which is where Apple comes up short. You can't get a consumer 15" or 17". If you want those screen sizes, you have to get the absolute top of the line.

And MS is fighting back how precisely? By harping on cheap hardware. Let me spell out the absurdity of that: they don't sell hardware! This is the truly bizarre aspect of these ads. If MS wants to fight back, let them put OSX and Vista side by side (on a Mac using Parallels? Now that would be poetic!) and compare feature by feature.
post #156 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post

One thing - After 3.5 years how much would you be able to sell your home brew PC for? I traded my iMac G5 for $500.00 to the local dealer in town for a brand new iMac.

My Mom is still using my 2003 iBook for basic computing.

I'd probably still be using it (like I am with my current PC), or part it out, since I can still do that with some PC parts, usually the same usually can't be said for a Mac. I don't think I've thought about selling it, just give it to relatives, or part it out. I wouldn't want to buy someone else's old computer, personally.

It's nice that you can sell such an old computer, but I don't care, and there is a finite use I can get out of a computer, before I need to upgrade, but with how SW isn't catching up with the HW, I still haven't found a need too.

Current PC BTW:
Athlon X2 64 3800= (o/c to 2.4 GHz), Socket 939
2 GB DDR400
2x120 GB (EIDE), 1x320 GB (SATA) HD
8x DVD burner (EIDE)
ATI HD 2600 Pro (AGP)
SB Live! 24-bit sound card
Vista Business SP1 (32-bit)
Some generic 450W PSU
About a dozen USB 2.0 ports, 3x FW400. eSATA
Cooler Master G690 case

Before the dual core X2, I had a single-core version and a different mobo, that ran XP for about 3 years, and I had maybe 3-4 BSODs, mainly because of the Nvidia card I had at the time.

I think the most expensive part was the case, at about $100. the video card was only $25. The video card isn't the greatest, but it's the same one that Apple included in their mid-level iMac before the last refresh. Works well enough for older games on my 1080p Sony Bravia though.

I could get a new PC with all the bells and whisles, but I'm waiting on Win7, and even then I might just stick with Ubuntu x64. With Apple, it doesn't matter, because I can only get a couple different variations, but I'm not sure if I care anymore, as I got a Mac, but I've become disappointed in Apple, as they've become so consumer-centric.
post #157 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxy View Post

And MS is fighting back how precisely? By harping on cheap hardware. Let me spell out the absurdity of that: they don't sell hardware! This is the truly bizarre aspect of these ads. If MS wants to fight back, let them put OSX and Vista side by side (on a Mac using Parallels? Now that would be poetic!) and compare feature by feature.

They are fighting back in the only ways that really makes sense in a 30 second spot, by comparing the tangibles of HW configs. They are comparing price and by association the configurations of those prices. Apple is just one PC company with a setup like boutique shop. There limited model line is a valid concern for many who would consider a Mac if they could get cheaper HW setups. I don't think their commercials are meant to pull in new customers, but are designed to maintain current customers, especially those on the fence on whether they should a Mac a try despite the higher initial cost for most models. I find that to be a very valid.

Apple hasn't really focused much on the OS side of things with their ads, though they have on their included software and the concerns people have had over Windows "issues". Both are playing the cards they have well.

As for your idea that MS should compete with comparing OS X to Windows I have to assume you are kidding. There is nothing MS could gain and plenty they could lose if they did that. A 60 second commercial could use the first 2 seconds to show you how to take a snapshot of the display and find the image on your desktop, the other 58 seconds would be how to do the same thing in Windows... if you are very fast.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #158 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

It will never happen- Apple has us in a Catch 22. If you want the OS you have to get the Hardware - no matter how over priced or cheaply made. If the OS was available all over the spectrum, Apple would tank. People would opt for other manufacturer's hardware - hand's down. They (Apple) are afraid to license out the OS. So many of us have to wait between generations of inadequate hardware until Apple comes up to speed.
Now where is that iPad?

hey your zune is showing
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beatles
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post #159 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

Let's face reality. Macs have a 4% world market share because they are way too expensive.

Why are Macs so expensive? Because Apple's senior management destroyed the company by raising the prices of Macs way beyond anything reasonable so that they could line their pockets with billions of dollars of illegal, backdated stock option bonuses.

That's why Macs are way too expensive for Apple to grow beyond a 4% world market share. Shame on those individuals who placed their own self interest ahead of the company's interest.




By the way, what's keeping them from lowering prices RIGHT NOW?

bullshit

mac in there class are way higher than 4 percent

first off delete from the list all p.c. under 1000 $$
then delete all the cloud clone company sales

then factor in that macs last much longer than most p/cs
\\mac owners love there p/c and take great care of them

also mac are priced for what is inside
Mac's always include the doors and the tire's and the steering wheel
mac os is great
vista sucks
window 7 is vista
and all that is inside like iphoto imovie iweb itunes an on and on all sync together
And all that media 100-gig's to over 2 tb;s worth can hang tough in the mac and out side hard drives . Yet your access to all this media data is the same. And fast too . Open imovie and its all there .

So that movie I am making looks great with cool photo's added and sound good to w/some live pink floyd thrown in . And since I know shit about all this computer stuff I'm happy mac makes is simple and safe to use .

Mac's don't crash
mac users don't spend days on the phone to India
Mac users go to a store and get things fixed on the spot for free .


mac users feel sorry for you guys
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post #160 of 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJD2112 View Post

A few commentators mentioned their surprise to Apple's response to the Microsoft advertisements, in that they are surprised Apple is acknowledging the Microsoft ads at all. My first thought is that it seems Apple is focusing more on the general consumer and less on the PROsumer, evidenced by many of Apple's recent hardware and marketing decisions.

For example, as a graphic/web designer, I was extremely shocked in Apple's decision in releasing high glossy LED LCD displays. Apple's Cinema Display's were a top choice for many photographers and professionals who needed an IPS panel with excellent screen to print capabilities. The high glossy displays in the PRO line (MacBook Pro and 24" LED LCD Cinema Display) are baffling to those who utilize displays as a primary tool in their profession. The Cinema Display's were a good alternative to the high price Eizo display's and were also a good choice for those who are moderate professionals (meaning the non-Annie Leibovitz's of the world). They offered an excellent anti-glare IPS LCD screen with 178 degree viewing. The new LED LCD display's are TERRIBLE for editing as they unnaturally increase display contrast, producing prints that are much darker than on the screen (forget about Photoshopping images on a high gloss LED LCD, I dual mirrored an LED LCD alongside a previous generation 23" Aluminum display and attempted to Photoshop images on the 24" LED LCD, the 23" display showed true output and it was extremely off - both displays were calibrated). As well, the only way to eliminate glare is to increase the display brightness to unrealistic levels, and then balancing the light in the room so that the screen and ambient room lighting are equal. Producing a glossy display in the Pro lineup forces many professionals who depended on Apple's displays to shop elsewhere (MacBook PRO's are now off limits to professionals who rely on their display to convey accurate images). Currently my five year old Aluminum Display needs replacing as the brightness and overall panel consistency are going (it's been used almost daily for 8-10 hours at a time, so it was worth the investment). With the (long overdue) release of a new Cinema Display, I was hoping I could replace my dual display setup with the same setup, two 24" LED LCD displays, and pocket the difference (admittedly the $899 price for a 24" LED LCD with a USB hub, 2.1 speaker system and built-in web cam is a good bargain, especially when compared to other LED LCD display's in the market - which currently there are very few). It appears as though I will have to fork over more than $3,000 USD for two EIZO displays to equal the same quality of my current 23" IPS Apple Aluminum Display's.

My point in this comment is that it seems Apple is becoming more concerned with the general consumer and less concerned with the pro-sumer. This is perhaps the reason Apple is interested in fighting in the general consumer market. In the past Apple has stated that Microsoft competes in the world of "beige boxes", which isn't their market. Yet increasingly each year it seems Apple is expanding into this very market, at the sacrifice of their past pro-sumer market. The introduction of the 24" LED LCD display was initially marketed for their portable lineup (until recently with the release of DisplayPort Mac Mini's and Mac Pro's, but Mac Pro owners have to deal with the extremely short chords of the LED display's as well as the limited choice of high glossy/exuberantly bright displays). Myself as well as a dozen or so other professionals who are in the market for new displays are forking over more cash for EIZO (or even NEC) displays. Even design firms that invested in previous generation white non-glossy iMac's that are looking to upgrade are at a loss with the new high glossy systems. MANY, and I mean MANY, design firms began investing in Intel Mac's as they are able to run Windows and Mac OS X. Offices opted for this as less long term costs were paid out to IT office managers/assistants, as well as other third party applications.

In short, it seems Apple is more concerned with the "dumbing down" of its product lines in order to sell more systems to the general consumer. Instead of low volume/high costs sales for professionals, Apple is more concerned with high volume/lower cost of sales (and by lower cost that is in comparison to the higher cost of Apple's Pro lineup). Producing hardware that limits the con/pro-sumer with regards to available options, and investing more research and development into consumer grade products seems to clash with Apple's previous market history.

i hope you feel better now after your long tirade . need a hug ??, anyway the glossy looks great .

and apple invests a ton of money for research .

and dude you got lucky getting away with using a cheap graphic screen for a while . you guys make a ton of money so go buy the correct top o line screen you need
glossy rocks

peace
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beatles
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