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What Windows Features Do You Want In OS X? - Page 4

post #121 of 169
On a slightly differant note (not file management and the like), I like being able to browse through a folder of images as thumbnails, or watching a movie without a seperate viewer app (quicktime OS integration maybe). I know that's what iPhoto is for, at least for images, but I'd like to be able to browse any folder of images as thumbnails, such as for web sites I'm working on.

As for right-clickable menus, yes. Absolutely. Especially for things like the bookmark menu where you can delete a bookmark directly from the menu.
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post #122 of 169
more windows features I'd like to see on the mac?

1) macromedia software optimised for the os

2) up to date drivers being easily available for 3rd party peripherals - even old ones

3) my bank and isp being totally aware of my OS natively

4) 95% of the world's market

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post #123 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by noleli:
<strong>On a slightly differant note (not file management and the like), I like being able to browse through a folder of images as thumbnails, or watching a movie without a seperate viewer app (quicktime OS integration maybe).</strong><hr></blockquote>

You know both these things can be done in the Finder, right? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

Use the view settings (Command-J) to turn on image thumbnails and enable columnview browsing (Command-3) to view QT-movies.
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post #124 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
<strong>Yes, and if you use the cut command on a file, it should just make it invisible but keep it where it originally was. When you press paste, it moves the file. If you accidentally copy or cut something else, pushing the original out, it should return it to its original spot.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And that's exactly how it works in Windows...
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post #125 of 169
But completely, utterly and absolutely *UNLIKE* how cut/copy/paste works in *every other part* of MacOS X!

This is *precisely* why Windows is obtuse... it insists on subtly changing behaviour without telling you.

If you want to call it 'Prep Move', 'Prep Copy' and 'Finish Move/Copy' then fine, but don't call it Cut/Copy/Paste if it does something different.
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post #126 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:
<strong>But completely, utterly and absolutely *UNLIKE* how cut/copy/paste works in *every other part* of MacOS X!</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, a bit unlike how cut works in every other part of OS X. Copy/Paste still works the same.

[quote]<strong>This is *precisely* why Windows is obtuse... it insists on subtly changing behaviour without telling you.</strong><hr></blockquote>

hear hear, agree with you on that one.

[quote]<strong>If you want to call it 'Prep Move', 'Prep Copy' and 'Finish Move/Copy' then fine, but don't call it Cut/Copy/Paste if it does something different.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Would those commands be put in a different menu also? With different keyboard shortcuts that people'd have to learn? All because of a metaphorical inconsistency?

The big problem here is not how the feature works, it's the general knowledge of how it works. Ppl are afraid to use it because of its possible destructive behaviour, or don't want to use it because they're not exactly sure what'll happen when they do (since it is a bit different from regular copypaste).

Asuggestion'd be that the first time a user cuts a file, throw up a info-dialogue (think Internet Explorer "you are entering a secure page") explaining how cut works, and a checkbox to not show it in the future.

Another'd be to create a "pasteboard well" where the cut files'd be moved to while waiting to be pasted.

The truth of the matter is, it IS a useful feature that a lot of people use and that I miss sometimes in OS X. So I think it needs to be implemented. In some form.
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post #127 of 169
How about click 'n' drag scroll wheel behavior. It's really nice for going through really long web pages.
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post #128 of 169
keyboard navigation
alt key modifiers

windoze beats os x handily in the above two areas
i use win2k very heavily & can zip around using
only the keyboard...os x doesnt do as well


explorer ....
file navigation is way better under windows
esp with the treeview
os x's finder has numerous issues including
one incredibly annoying one where you click a file
& it goes into name edit mode
the other annoyance is when you make a new folder
& the focus dosent stay on it
the current finder reminds me of win3.1 filemanager...apple needs to rethink this or atleast work on fixing the bugs.
post #129 of 169
Well, for one I have to disagree with the opinion about the tree view. It would seem good at first, and once you get it, it's OK, but I have given up trying to teach about half a dozen of my family and firends on how to use it. Column view is exactly what they are looking for, and they get it right off the bat. I do agree with the general notion that the Finder is something of a mixed bag with some unsettled behavior.

What do you mean by alt-key modifiers, madmax? I hope you don't mean stuff like alt-5049 for the ? symbol (that's trademark in case safari messes this up [edit: fixed in OW 4.2b]) because it's far too complex for anyone to make real use of. The option characters and character palette beat Windows for special text character.

As for keyboard access, OS X's full keyboard access seems OK to me anyway. It might not be as good as Windows though, for as much as I use Windows, I haven't explored this very much beyond whatever alert is in front of me.


PS: OmniWeb 4.2b's forms editor is too cool!

[silly typo : too, not to]

[ 02-03-2003: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</p>
post #130 of 169
alt key modifier is when you hold down the alt key
& hit the letter thats underlined
eg &Ok &Cancel would have the O & C underlined
on osx when a dialog box popup eg a license agreement you can tab around if you full keyboard
access enabled, but hitting the enter/return key
doesnt do anything forcing you to use the mouse

right now osx is a mixed bag & apple shouldnt hesitate to take the best features from other os's if it will make osx better.

i disagree on the explorer, but then again ive been using/coding windoze since ver1 so the treeview metaphor works well for me...perhaps it could be added on as a view option in finder...
post #131 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by madmax559:
<strong>alt key modifier is when you hold down the alt key
& hit the letter thats underlined
eg &Ok &Cancel would have the O & C underlined
on osx when a dialog box popup eg a license agreement you can tab around if you full keyboard
access enabled, but hitting the enter/return key
doesnt do anything forcing you to use the mouse</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's because it was developed at a time when you couldn't count on there *being* a mouse hooked to the machine.

[quote]<strong>i disagree on the explorer, but then again ive been using/coding windoze since ver1 so the treeview metaphor works well for me...perhaps it could be added on as a view option in finder...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Urk. Used Windows nearly as long as the Mac, and I have *never* liked tree-view. Column view works much better for me.
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post #132 of 169
tree view is dire, it gets wider with every time thus you get a horizontal scrollbar (worst kind of bar ) col view is really lovely I prefer classic style just icons view though
post #133 of 169
I find tree view useful for very small systems where you have only about 10 folders at a level and the only go about 3-4 deep. On my system where my data files are routinely 9-10 levels deeps and I want to move them from one folder that deep to another, I find it absolutely useless. Same goes for Photoshop's or Graphic Converter's file browsers.
post #134 of 169
Unfortunately, Cmd-~ to move through different windows of an individual app isn't standard. Some apps assign each window a different number (Cmd-1 to get to one window, Cmd-2 to get to the second).

Also, I like the dock a lot better since I got multiple monitors and put it in the far left. Still, it would be better as the "Dock and Shelf," as it gets easily cluttered by too many apps. Maybe a separate section for currently running programs and one for shortcuts?

I dunno, OS X certainly has a ways to go before it'll match OS 9's interface.
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post #135 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by Gizzmonic:
<strong>Unfortunately, Cmd-~ to move through different windows of an individual app isn't standard. Some apps assign each window a different number (Cmd-1 to get to one window, Cmd-2 to get to the second).</strong><hr></blockquote>Assigning key commands to individual windows is okay, but there should *still* be a window cycling key bound to command-~. Apple's current HI Guidelines states:
[quote] Starting with Mac OS X version 10.2, users can cycle forward or backward through active document windows using Command-~ (tilde) or Shift-Command-~. Cocoa applications automatically inherit this behavior; Carbon developers must handle appropriate menu commands. <hr></blockquote>If an app you use doesn't follow this behavior, the developer isn't following the proper guidelines. Write to your developers! Tell them that you value consistency with Apple guidelines! Without standards like this, all of Mac OS X's interface would be a haphazard mess like Windows or Linux.
post #136 of 169
Oh, another request.

Can we PLEASE get more informative error messages when I can't mount a network drive?

Getting an error like "Can't mount drive: (-36)" or something like that is what I expect from the old MS-DOS days.

Does Apple actually expect people to know off the top of their head what error -36 means?
post #137 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by Brian Paulsen:
<strong>Oh, another request.

Can we PLEASE get more informative error messages when I can't mount a network drive?

Getting an error like "Can't mount drive: (-36)" or something like that is what I expect from the old MS-DOS days.

Does Apple actually expect people to know off the top of their head what error -36 means?</strong><hr></blockquote>


Are Windows dialogs any better?
post #138 of 169
That error means the checksum failed doesn't it? Many errors in X could be more helpfully worded.
post #139 of 169
I don't see games being mentioned at all (maybe I missed it) I'd like to see something like DirectX being implemented for gaming!

From what I see, a lot of games for the Mac are "homemade" ports (look at Quake for example)

How is OSX supposed to become a player in the games industry?! <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
post #140 of 169
Things I have gotten used to in Windows:

XP: Built-in image viewing with next image button. The "icon preview" in OS X is way too much of a hassle to get to. I now have "Icon Preview" on on the desktop, but can get confusing as usually files with previews usually means there is a fat resource fork on it which I must kill before sending via email.

General: Right-click drag files and get options. For example right click drag a file to a folder gives option to move, copy, etc. I know, we have option.

General: Networking on a windows network. SLOW and UNRELIABLE. 99% of any kernel panics I have gotten are SMB and network related. Not just on one network, but direct connections, my corporate lan, etc. Its a fvcking mess.

XP: simultaneos login would be nice, but not necessary overly much.

thats all that blatently comes to mind
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post #141 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by MightyMo:
<strong>I don't see games being mentioned at all (maybe I missed it) I'd like to see something like DirectX being implemented for gaming!

From what I see, a lot of games for the Mac are "homemade" ports (look at Quake for example)

How is OSX supposed to become a player in the games industry?! <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

There are guides for game producers on how to port DirectX calls to OpenGL calls.

In general, aside from Half Life, the Mac scene for gaming is pretty good.

DirectX is proprietary MS goodness.
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post #142 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by ZO:
<strong>Things I have gotten used to in Windows:

General: Right-click drag files and get options. For example right click drag a file to a folder gives option to move, copy, etc. I know, we have option.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You mean Control.

If you have a two-button mouse, right-click works just like it does on Windows. (No drivers needed, even.)
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post #143 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:
<strong>

You mean Control.

If you have a two-button mouse, right-click works just like it does on Windows. (No drivers needed, even.)</strong><hr></blockquote>

You don't understand. In Windows, if you right-click and drag a file, when you release the click button a context menu will show up with options (copy here, move here, create shortcut here)

Pretty nifty.
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post #144 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by Whyatt Thrash:
<strong>

You don't understand. In Windows, if you right-click and drag a file, when you release the click button a context menu will show up with options (copy here, move here, create shortcut here)

Pretty nifty.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And a load of other 'options' that don't exist unless you know about this behavior, Right click drag WTF. 'Hidden' features like this are the main argument against Apple shiping multi button mice as standard.
Right click menus should only be used as a convenient way to get to features and options available by other methods.

I have used XP every working day for over 12 months (it's like Chinese water torture), and I didn't know about this, real intuative.
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post #145 of 169
Nevermind. Cut/copy/paste has been taken care of on this page...

[ 02-14-2003: Message edited by: NoahJ ]</p>
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post #146 of 169
Ok I am sure I saw this earlier in the thread but I just thought I would mention it a little more in depth.

One huge thing that bugs me about OS X (there isn't much that does) is not being able to select files in Save dialog boxes. I work for a visual effects company in Hollywood and we often have really long file names that have to be somewhat descriptive. Now replacing or referencing long file names just doesn't work in OS X, just because of the fact that you have to retype stuff out. Here is a example of situation that I encounter quite often.

-Open up After Effects
-File-&gt;Import
-Select my image sequence (ie, EnterpriseLuminence_v1_[####].tga)
-Do my tweaks in After Effects
-Go to render out the new version

This is where my big snag comes up. Instead of me being able to select the original version and just change v1 to v2, I have to retype the whole thing.

Now this is a huge issue because I deal with this a looooot. Come onf fellas...give me a little love over here.

Oh there is also one other smaller issue. I wish when I browsed through folders it would use the same view that I started with. If I started browsing in Icon View...stay that way. I know this is most likely a issue with the ds.store file but I just wish it would remember.


PS..I'm sure these might have been brought up before, but couldn't remember everthing that was posted in this thread.
post #147 of 169
doublepost..

[ 02-15-2003: Message edited by: Whyatt Thrash ]</p>
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post #148 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by Mediaman:
<strong>

And a load of other 'options' that don't exist unless you know about this behavior, Right click drag WTF. 'Hidden' features like this are the main argument against Apple shiping multi button mice as standard.
Right click menus should only be used as a convenient way to get to features and options available by other methods.

I have used XP every working day for over 12 months (it's like Chinese water torture), and I didn't know about this, real intuative.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, did you know about command-dragging a window to keep it in the background until you tried it? ,Option-dragging a file to copy, command-option dragging a file to make a shortcut? Option-close to close all, option-minimize to minimize all?

Just because the feature's "hidden" doesn't make it unintuitive or bad behaviour.

I also like the "right-click to cancel drag" feature in Windows... Just noticed you can use the escape key for that in X. cool, guess we don't need that now...
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post #149 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by ZO:
<strong>XP: Built-in image viewing with next image button. The "icon preview" in OS X is way too much of a hassle to get to. I now have "Icon Preview" on on the desktop, but can get confusing as usually files with previews usually means there is a fat resource fork on it which I must kill before sending via email.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Icon preview in Mac OS X does not add to the file size - it doesn't touch the file at all.
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post #150 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by Whyatt Thrash:
<strong>

You don't understand. In Windows, if you right-click and drag a file, when you release the click button a context menu will show up with options (copy here, move here, create shortcut here)

Pretty nifty.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What's wrong about dragging the normal way and using modifier keys to choose copy, move, alias?

It's the same function, but in Mac OS X you use modifier keys which are also used in almost every app available.

Consistency!
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post #151 of 169
What I want on the Mac is a feature that windows users take for granted: being able to close a docked window withou maximizing it. Another, less important thing would be able to ctrl-click on an app in the dock, see the windows of that app, and be able to choose a close window option off a submenu, so you could, for example, in a web browser close pop-unders without bringing the annoying little window to front over the main browser windo to close it.
post #152 of 169
The pre-release builds of Jaguar had this close menu for minimized windows. But they pulled the version of the Dock with that and other features at the last minute.

[I always seem to leave otu one critical point...]

I suspect we'll see that feature in the next major release of the OS. As far as closing windows accessed through the app's Dock icon, I think a selection using a key modifier -- probably the option key -- would be a good solution for this.

[ 02-15-2003: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</p>
post #153 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by foad:
<strong>Ok I am sure I saw this earlier in the thread but I just thought I would mention it a little more in depth.

One huge thing that bugs me about OS X (there isn't much that does) is not being able to select files in Save dialog boxes. I work for a visual effects company in Hollywood and we often have really long file names that have to be somewhat descriptive. Now replacing or referencing long file names just doesn't work in OS X, just because of the fact that you have to retype stuff out. Here is a example of situation that I encounter quite often.

-Open up After Effects
-File-&gt;Import
-Select my image sequence (ie, EnterpriseLuminence_v1_[####].tga)
-Do my tweaks in After Effects
-Go to render out the new version

This is where my big snag comes up. Instead of me being able to select the original version and just change v1 to v2, I have to retype the whole thing.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I deal with this issue a lot as well. I often take dozens of digital images on a microscope. Each files needs to be saved with the date, sample, magnification, color, etc. Retyping all of 2003-02-15-Sample-100x-Green-01.tif just to change the image # or color is a PITA.

Windows handles this much better. You click on the previous file and the name is right there in the save box.
post #154 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by JLL:
<strong>

What's wrong about dragging the normal way and using modifier keys to choose copy, move, alias?

It's the same function, but in Mac OS X you use modifier keys which are also used in almost every app available.

Consistency!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Maybe you missed that the point of having a two-button mouse is not having to use modifier keys.
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post #155 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by os10geek:
<strong>What I want on the Mac is a feature that windows users take for granted: being able to close a docked window withou maximizing it. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes! Yes dammit! Why they omitted this feature out of 10.2 is beyond me...
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post #156 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by foamy:
<strong>I deal with this issue a lot as well. I often take dozens of digital images on a microscope. Each files needs to be saved with the date, sample, magnification, color, etc. Retyping all of 2003-02-15-Sample-100x-Green-01.tif just to change the image # or color is a PITA.

Windows handles this much better. You click on the previous file and the name is right there in the save box.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sounds like your company needs to learn what folders are for

Seriously, I hope 10.3's open/save dialog will feature auto-completion.
post #157 of 169
Well I'm not sure if this qualifies as a feature, but faster and smooth scrolling would be must appreciated. As I understand it this would require 2d acceleration, which is not possible in Quartz. Page loading is almost equal between Safari and WinIE, but scrolling is still very choppy and slow making the browsing experience less pleasant.
post #158 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by Whyatt Thrash:
<strong>
Maybe you missed that the point of having a two-button mouse is not having to use modifier keys.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And right clicking the File menu in the Finder should show 'Always Open With', 'Close All', 'Show Inspector' and so on?
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post #159 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by JLL:
<strong>

And right clicking the File menu in the Finder should show 'Always Open With', 'Close All', 'Show Inspector' and so on?</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, but middle-clicking with my 3-button mouse that has the middle-button set to option-click does.

I think you've gotten the different key-modifiers confused here...

The feature IS consisent since rightclicking in windows always brings up the copy/cut/paste options, which I also sorely miss in OS X. I should be able to eat a pear with one hand and quickly be able to select and copy/paste text and files with the mouse only.

This is a power-user feature. mac noobs haven't even got multi-button mice! Why should "power user" mean "harder to get at" on a mac?
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post #160 of 169
[quote]Originally posted by Whyatt Thrash:
<strong>

No, but middle-clicking with my 3-button mouse that has the middle-button set to option-click does. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Woah, let's bring in a THIRD way to do things!
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