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iPhone rival Palm Pre to sell for $199 after rebate on June 6th - Page 5

post #161 of 430
Im exciting that some company is finally challenging Apple. First smartphone to excite the public.

But...iPhone still wins. (at least for me) =)
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post #162 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

It's amusing that 3G here in Toronto absolutely rocks. I have to drive a LONG way before I drop to Edge, and I get solid speed throughout.

It's different everywhere. There were a few places in NYC where my Sprint service was better than the one from Verizon. But that's rare.
post #163 of 430
Inductive charging is a cool feature. I understand why electric toothbrushes should have it. They need the closed environment and are used infrequently between charges. Does have a dock with a plug make that big of a difference in convenience since it still has to be docked? It would be really cool if it could just laid on a simple pad that you also your keys and wallet on at night? Is there a time difference in how long it takes to charge the same size battery with direct connection? How much heat is output is there and how much more power does it use to complete the charge?



Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Very funny Sol, I'm sure you're quick enough to understand the comments. Or at least I used to.

I wasnt making a joke or being funny, but I was reading 3 pages of comments quickly to catch up with the thread. Im guessing you were just continuing your thought, but you could be going senile you never know.
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post #164 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

Really? What will the new iphone have that will "change the game"? Please link me to where you can confirm this and it's not hearsay...

We're talking about Apple here. How many people said the same thing before the 3G? Look what happened. Wait until June to find out. I'm quite confident we'll be pleasantly surprised, and there will be something (perhaps several things) that no one knows about yet, despite the new iPhone OS betas.
post #165 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

HOw is that?
What CDMA peple who are happy with their service would want to switch to AT&T's lousy 3G network-Yechh!
The fanboyz have already switched - lightning will be very hard to strike 3 times. Many of the sales will be renewals only.

That's a blanket statement. Sprint/Verizon CDMA in my area is horrendous; both voice and 3G. Yet AT&T has full coverage.

Get what works for you, and be done with it. My only comment is that don't be surprised if the Pre doesn't do well; remember it's coming from a company on the downslide, from a carrier who isn't doing well either...
post #166 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

what R&D costs are you talking about? Paying for iPhone engineers to jump ship to Palm?

Correct. Most of Palm's engineering team are ex-Apple (and some are recent ex-Apple), as well as some of the execs. I posted all the names on Newoin a couple of months ago. There's a lot.

It's not the Palm Pre, it's the iPalm.

Apple's innovative arm stretches beyond Cupertino. Hell, Palm is located in California as well. Convenient, convenient.
post #167 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

)
Doesn't get better than that. So, go stew in it.

Acutally it does- if you had sold it 9 months ago.
post #168 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdmelvin View Post

That's a blanket statement. Sprint/Verizon CDMA in my area is horrendous; both voice and 3G. Yet AT&T has full coverage.

Get what works for you, and be done with it. My only comment is that don't be surprised if the Pre doesn't do well; remember it's coming from a company on the downslide, from a carrier who isn't doing well either...

CDMA is nearly dead. 3G is the way to go, and AT&T has improved its 3G coverage considerably.

And the Pre isn't even released yet, anyway. It has plenty to prove, and plenty of ground to make up. And all the developers are flocking to the iPhone. Nothing has the ecosystem that iPhone has. Not even close. Developers are also leaving the Blackberry to get in on the iPhone action.

Palm could not have released the Pre at a worse time. The party's all but over. In any case, it'll be an interesting release to watch.
post #169 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

Being able to replace the battery is an attractive feature. For example, if you're traveling for an extended period of time, and you've got a fully charged spare battery, it's nice to just pop it in and go after the first battery is drained.

Not a key feature everyone looks for, but not a bad one either.

You're right. But you can also buy an external battery pack for the iPhone that works just as well. I bought one for my bus trips to Chicago. Worked great. Uses 4 AA rechargeable batteries and works for 8+ hours straight without using up any of the internal battery power in the iPhone. Yes, there is a cord that connects the power pack to the iPhone, but if I'm sitting down for all those hours, It's not a big deal.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #170 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

Im exciting that some company is finally challenging Apple. First smartphone to excite the public.

But...iPhone still wins. (at least for me) =)

Where exactly is all this excitement to be found outside the internet forums?

Most people have no idea what a Pre is.
post #171 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdmelvin View Post

My only comment is that don't be surprised if the Pre doesn't do well; remember it's coming from a company on the downslide, from a carrier who isn't doing well either...

Nothing surpises me- especially a comment like that posted on here- bashing a competitor's product before it's even released.
post #172 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjingles View Post

He makes a valid point. Palm can't come to market today with a $600 Pre and expect it to sell. IF they had come out with it two years ago before the iPhone? Maybe.

People wouldn't pay $600 for an iPhone today because they know they don't have to pay that much. Comparing this to two years ago just doesn't make sense because market conditions have changed.

But the original iPhone didnt have a subsidy tied to it. On top of that, Apple had a clear winner here in the states where smartphones were either business or geek focused. There wasnt a single one that was consumer media focused and had a decent web browser. Now, the Pre is fighting in a market that has changed dramatically in two years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

The point is that they can't be "good enough". They have to be way better, on EVERY measure. And they're not. This pricing issue is just the insult to the injury, IMHO. It doesn't make a difference how much it cost to develop, they need to compete with iPhone, not a vacuum. If they're going to lose money at the iPhone price point, well, that's pretty much that.

I think Palm can get away with being good enough in just a couple areas and do very well. I agree that the rebate is a gaffe, which I think will be removed fairly quickly. Probably making it a $199 price, perhaps right before the next iPhone hits stores, but if they can do backgrond apps, which should be efficient and easy to make with their HTML, JS and CSS development platform, that may be enough for many. The apps I use the most on my iPhone can easily be done, and probably more efficiently if they used web based code.
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post #173 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

Oh balogna. Apple spent a decade releasing utter crap and failing to do any serious development work.

Instead of striking out on their own, like they did with the Mac, they simply listened to what the pundits were saying and did that. Pundits said CORBA was the next big thing? Let's do SOM. Email? PowerTalk. 3D? RAVE. Database access? DAL and DAM. Typesetting? QDGX. All of these products sucked, because they (sometimes) didn't really understand them and (more commonly) didn't have the resources to make them complete.

Meanwhile all of this was being built on a single-user single-tasking OS that couldn't hope to do them justice. And every time they chased one of these "next big things" (which promptly disappeared) that was another minute they spent not working on the core OS. So by 1996 the OS is utterly hopeless, and Apple has a whole portfolio of garbage no one wanted in the first place. Geez, X.400 servers?!

What Palm lacked was direction, exactly what Apple was laking. What they still lack is "on their own". Lets face it, every single mention of the Pre has a mention of the iPhone.

I agree with this, maybe it's more advertising for the iphone.
post #174 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I'm very familiar with Sprint's rebate policies, as you can tell from my post.

I don't trust them. They don't have a good history with them.

I don't understand why companies offer rebates to entice a sale and then refuse to honor them. In the long run it's a shoot yourself in the foot policy. Out of convenience I was a regular major appliance shopping at Sears for my apartment building. I didn't get my promised rebate. I complained to the local store and the Chicago office of the CEO. They promised a gift card instead. It didn't come either. Now I get my major appliances from Pacific Sales (Best Buy) and do the "points" thing. So far the rebates have arrived, but would prefer a discounted price.
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post #175 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Nothing surpises me- especially a comment like that posted on here- bashing a competitor's product before it's even released.

Bashing? I didn't say it wasn't good/bad. My comment was based on the current status of both Palm and Sprint as companies. Both are doing poorly, so it wouldn't shock me to see this venture fail...
post #176 of 430
I am I the only one thinking - a OS based on CSS, XHTML, and JavaScript??? Unless im getting the wrong end of the stick but, surely that thing is going to get nailed with viruses etc?? And when was the last time you had a page load correctly in two different browsers? I might just be missing the entire point, and I know I dont know much about the Pre. But seriously, I would be VERy worried if my OS was using the web technologies to operate. Also background apps - big sucker on battery life due to the process threads required to keep them running, and viruses running the background? All sounds scary in my little world, but then thats me.
post #177 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

It's amusing that 3G here in Toronto absolutely rocks. I have to drive a LONG way before I drop to Edge, and I get solid speed throughout.

Same here, are you with Rogers or Fido?
post #178 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by baredd View Post

I am I the only one thinking - a OS based on CSS, XHTML, and JavaScript??? Unless im getting the wrong end of the stick but, surely that thing is going to get nailed with viruses etc?? And when was the last time you had a page load correctly in two different browsers? I might just be missing the entire point, and I know I dont know much about the Pre. But seriously, I would be VERy worried if my OS was using the web technologies to operate. Also background apps - big sucker on battery life due to the process threads required to keep them running, and viruses running the background? All sounds scary in my little world, but then thats me.

Remember, this an OS built on well treaded open standards that are lightweight because they were designed around the internet. The apps that will run on the device are designed to run on WebOS so they will be the same each time. The webpages will render like they do in Safari, its the same WebKit browser after all.

This is a unique position for them to take and its the best one Ive seen to combat the iPhone OS X. They have 3rd-party apps right out of the gate, something Apple had to wait over a year to get on their phone OS. They will be more limited than other mobile OS phone apps, but that may not be an issue if most apps people need can be done quickly with webcode.
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post #179 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I beg to differ. Any review of iPhone or any product for that matter show both pros and cons.
Always - ALWAYS -in the con column is "NO REPLACEABLE BATTERY".

Reviews are based off expectations, not real world use. That is far from an "outcry". If there were a true outcry from consumers who purchased and used iPhones, Apple would respond to it. Instead they went ahead and designed and built a laptop without a user replaceable battery.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #180 of 430
> Im exciting that some company is finally challenging Apple. First smartphone to excite the public.

Ummm, do you mean Google with Android? No? What about RIM with Storm? No? HTC Touch? No, not that either? Ohhhh, you mean Palm with Pre, the phone that's far less interesting or open than Android and a year later. Yes, that's the one that will really knock off the iPhone... "The public", by which you really mean "the blogosphere" has been repeatedly excited by the next phone for ages now.

When the iPod came out we suffered through two years of "iPod killers" where everyone desperately hoped that someone would knock them off their perch. Even when the Zune was coming, years late, they were still beating the drumbeat for the latest iPod killer. And here we see the same thing all over again. Every single "smart"phone that's shipped in the last year has been "the iPhone killer", only to sink without anyone even noticing. And now it's the Pre's turn to be the latest savior of everyone that considers themselves too cool for Apple while listening to the latest "counterculture" band that's come out of the big-label PR machines.

Maury
post #181 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I think Palm can get away with being good enough in just a couple areas and do very well.

Oh yes, indeed, but can they be "good enough in just a couple areas" and be the iPhone killer everyone wants? No.
post #182 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

Same here, are you with Rogers or Fido?

Fido, although there's 100% overlap for the last 6 months or more. At least in all the areas I've been to.
post #183 of 430
I work in the wireless industry and I try to stay as neutral as possible when it comes to mobile phones, but i believe that the palm pre is palms last ditch effort to try and make a profit. I lost a lot of confidence in palm ever since they launched the palm centro which has been nothing but a problem. I have an iphone myself and there has been word that version 3.0 will have the ability to run applications in the background on the iphone. Thats just the word I got. After reading about the pre I have yet to see anything special about it that will compete with the iphone. Look at what happened with the supposed iphone killer (blackberry storm) the storm did not have the effect on the iphone as a lot of people thought it would. I think the pre will sell to hardcore sprint customers, but I dont think that people will go running to sprint to get it, and with the launch of 3.0 coming out with the iphone and a new model coming out, the pre will fall on deaf ears. sorry palm\
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post #184 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

And to everyone who's bringing up the existence of the app store as a reason not to get a pre, just answer me one thing: What if Apple decided that they were going to give up because they had to compete with the popularity of Windows? Apple once was (and still is in some regards) the underdog that fought past the naysayers. Why wouldn't you relate to Palm in the same regard?

Yes, Palm is just as beleaguered today as Apple was in 1996-1998. I bought a G3 PowerMac in 1998 (though using only my soon-to-expire Apple Citicard reward points so it was really free - Citicard was another thing that Jobs killed), so that would be like buying a Pre today. So why did I buy?

Did I mention the reward points? Seriously, I felt OS8 was competitive with Windows (and better in the AV stuff I was doing); and Hypercard was neat. And I had confidence that Jobs could bring Apple back, and bring developers back.

Is Pre competitive with iPhone? It's the best competitive device thus far.
Is there something in the Pre that I'd really want? No; multitasking, physical keyboard, replaceable battery, and Synergy are nice-to-have but nothing incredible. And I'd be giving up some current apps for 3-to-4 months; and the iPhone 3.0 apps/ecosystem is way ahead of where Palm is today.
Do I have more confidence in Palm or Apple to extend its utility (including 3rd parties) in the next 2 years? Palm has shown some innovation with Synergy, but Apple is the "founder" of the small-screen multi-touch paradigm. Palm app development just got started but the developer buzz is muted compared to that for iPhone 3.0 app development. And finally, I have more confidence in an Apple/Jobs/Cook vision, then in one from Apple castoff Rubinstein (who argued that iPod shouldn't become a phone).
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post #185 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

Same here, are you with Rogers or Fido?

Just to add, I live in Mississauga and it's just fine here. Downtown Toronto is great. Outlying areas too.

Interestingly enough, it's also pretty strong in the Huntsville/Port Sydney area up North, and I'm talking way deep in the woods here, on the snowmobile trails.
post #186 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

And what feature is this Pre bringing that haven't been out in phones for years, name one feature?

WebOS. That's a pretty significant thing. Yes it's just an OS, but no one else has used it before.
post #187 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Yes and yes. It's not about carrying one around- where did you get that from? It's about you walking into a store and you replacing it, when and if you need it. And swapping batteries is common place for cameras- we do have them in NYC and sell batteries at JandR. Many of us buy them. Why buy a brick to hook on your iPhone when you could simply travel with a battery?
Have you ever been outside of an Apple store or Teckserve?

20 months... iPhone battery still lasts all day - no need to replace it.

And what's the difference when you're traveling whether you're carrying a "brick" or second battery in your bag?
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #188 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdmelvin View Post

Bashing? I didn't say it wasn't good/bad. My comment was based on the current status of both Palm and Sprint as companies. Both are doing poorly, so it wouldn't shock me to see this venture fail...


You're right - but there is a ton of bashing going on here for something not even released. Amazing -isn't it?
post #189 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

And what's the difference when you're traveling whether you're carrying a "brick" or second battery in your bag?

WEIGHT? SIZE?
post #190 of 430
Why are people comparing Palm to Apple??

Totally different situation, totally different markets (Apple 1996 vs. Palm today), and completely different business phliosophies.

Palm isn't the "underdog." There's nothing heroic about them. They make phones, and are just another company struggling to remain relevant, same as Motorola. Palm devices were nice back in the day, but they were nothing special, and nothing on the level of what Apple was in the early days. Now THAT was heroic. THAT was something worth cheering for. They created the Macintosh and the OS that went along with it, which singlehandedly revolutionized the entire industry. It was an icon, something by which time is measured in the tech world. Nothing less. Microsoft and Bill G wnet absolutely batshit crazy because of it, and that seething, palpable jealousy (beyond just envy) of Apple is not only still characteristic of MS today, but is stronger than ever.

Palm made an iPhone knockoff with the help of ex-Apple engineers, with only a fraction of the potential of the iPhone (for now.) Released (or rather, allegedly to be released in June) two years after Apple shook everything up already.

If they achieve FAR MORE than what the iPhone has, then I'll be impressed. Don't forget that the iPhone almost overnight took the #1 smartphone spot in the US and #3 worldwide, and held it, and then forced everyone else to up their game. Not by accident or Nokia-like cheap sales, either. And most didn't do very well back then and still can't manage to compete. The Pre has to be far and away so much more than the iPhone to really matter. Otherwise, it's just another Blackberry-esque, Storm-type device that didn't live up to the hype. There are plenty of iPhone copycats out there that are far too obvious. Same with the iPod, really, You've got the iPod. Then you've got everything else.

Good luck getting developers, too. With the iPhone around that's an uphill battle as well. You have to have an app store, too. And its implemenation and robustness has to be impressive, to say the least. And let's hope the recession doesn't kill the Pre. Apple has already established a reputation for quality and innovation. Palm's reputation - whatever is might have been, has long since been forgotten and is today synonymous with galactic laziness. Well, for those that even remember Palm or know what Palm is today. They never were much in the branding department.
post #191 of 430
I'm not sure why people are getting so excited about the Pre. It has yet to prove itself in any capacity. We'll have to wait for the real hands-on reviews (from neutral sources), and our own hands-on experience, to know what to make of this product. Being a brand-new product from a failing company, with nowhere near the technical know-how and resources of Apple, I'm not expecting much from it at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

Oh GOD don't even get me started. Sprint has been some of the worst, and best experiences I've had. You know what I tell people thinking of switching to sprint? As long as you never have to deal with customer service, everything will be hunky dory! That's the truth. Dealing with customer service will enrage you beyond anything you've felt. Some people flat out hang up on you. It's painfully obvious Sprint cuts cost by hiring morons for tier 1 and 2 level customer support.

This is true... I was a Sprint customer for more than a decade. It is a fact that their network coverage is inferior to AT&T's and Verizon's, but I was happy enough with the phones I used. And then, after all those decades, I had to sort some problems out with customer service, and I saw a completely different side to Sprint. Never again. Everyone I know who once used Sprint eventually left for the same reason.
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post #192 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

WEIGHT? SIZE?

And really, who the hell wants to carry around batteries or other extra crap? Like you're lugging around ammo and scopes or something. What is this, Viet Nam???

Non-removable batteries is the name of the game. Just make them quickly chargeable and long-lasting. And at worst, replaceable by the manufacturer.

Oh, and third parties have already made plenty of extra batteries (attachable) and power packs for the iPhone. So, it's a non-issue, really. There are iPhone car chargers in abundance, too.
post #193 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Normally I would have a Apple fanboy kneejerk reaction to anything non-Apple.

Normally? You mean with your whole 3 post track record? Mkay.
post #194 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

That's not the problem. Apple was releasing into a vacuum, a market dominated by utterly useless "smart" phones that were difficult to use, had absolutely useless browsers and didn't sync up anything you actually wanted. Don't get me wrong, the BB is a superb business tool (better than the iPhone even today) but there wasn't a single consumer smart phone out there worth buying. Period.

That is no longer true. Apple has wrapped up the majority of the brain-space (forget sales, people talk about everything in relation to the iPhone) and they've set the bar for others to meet. Lets not forget that a year ago everyone was talking about how this new open web-based development environment combined with a real keyboard and better camera was going to kick the iPhone's butt. Pre? No, G1.

The point is that they can't be "good enough". They have to be way better, on EVERY measure. And they're not. This pricing issue is just the insult to the injury, IMHO. It doesn't make a difference how much it cost to develop, they need to compete with iPhone, not a vacuum. If they're going to lose money at the iPhone price point, well, that's pretty much that.

Maury

When iphone came out, it was 600 dollars, but the argument is that's because of the market. Now the pre is coming out, for half as much, and people are saying this is so horrible. Lets take a look at that for a second and compare it to complaints about the iphone's lack of mms and copy and paste. What's the argument there? The argument is that the iphone is still "young" and other phones had these features because they had time to develop them. Well, HELLO? The Pre won't have a 200 dollar price point right out of the gate because it will take time to get there, just as it took TWO YEARS for the iphone to get to the most basic features of a "smart phone."

To say the Pre should start out with all the latest and greatest is to also say the iphone should have as well. To say that Apple's excuse for these artificial limitations is because of it's infancy is to say that the Pre can carry that excuse for the next two years as well.

I know I know, Palm was in the phone business long before Apple, right? Well instead of 2 years, lets see what Palm is capable of accomplishing with the Pre in ONE year.
post #195 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Normally? You mean with your whole 3 post track record? Mkay.

He can't read an article without posting about it? He could have been working with Apple products LONG before you have, but since he has a low post count he's not to be taken seriously? If he posted fart jokes 1000 times in a row, then you would take him seriously?

jeesh
post #196 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

And really, who the hell wants to carry around batteries or other extra crap? Like you're lugging around ammo and scopes or something. What is this, Viet Nam???

Non-removable batteries is the name of the game. Just make them quickly chargeable and long-lasting. And at worst, replaceable by the manufacturer.

Oh, and third parties have already made plenty of extra batteries (attachable) and power packs for the iPhone. So, it's a non-issue, really. There are iPhone car chargers in abundance, too.

And really, who the hell wants to carry around attachable power packs? Wait, what's the difference? Is the power pack disposable? Is it smaller than your average cell phone battery? Does it recharge the battery faster than simply swapping out the battery with a full one?

How dumb is that? You don't want to carry around an extra cell phone battery (in the rare case that you would need to) but you'd rather carry around a charger for a cell phone battery. Good God almighty man.
post #197 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Apple says you don't need it and it's not necessary- stop complaining and defending it!
(I thought I would pre-empt solipism on this one)

I just spent an gninormous amount of time on an airplane (24 friking hours including the layovers).

My iPhone lasted the whole time by being recharged via AA batteries. So I watched several movies, read a book and played a lot of games.

All without being able to replace the battery.
post #198 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

Oh yes, indeed, but can they be "good enough in just a couple areas" and be the iPhone killer everyone wants? No.

Maybe. If streaming porn works flawlessly, you could have the number one selling phone of all time.
post #199 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

How dumb is that? You don't want to carry around an extra cell phone battery (in the rare case that you would need to) but you'd rather carry around a charger for a cell phone battery. Good God almighty man.

I wouldn't.

I'd rather have a charger in the car and in the house (that you don't carry with you) rather than have extra batteries lying around. I don't use power packs, either.
post #200 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

The Pre is hideous looking. Sorry, 2 years on an iPhone and I can't even entertain the idea of such a half-assed "competitor".

June 6th release? Ha are you kidding me? This is called, "Whatever we do, it has to be on sale before WWDC, or we won't sell ANY of them."

At least they'll get a few Pandora suckers to drop $300 + 2 year Sprint contract on it.





Relax. Its hilarious to some people to see people clamoring for "more", and thinking the Palm Pre is it. Its hilarious because it couldn't be more wrong. Everyone knows it, except the people that are constant victims of advertising. And the release date? I'm telling you right now, it was CRITICAL that they launch this product before the announcement of the new iPhone. This was the best they do, logistically. 2 days.

This product will sell about 100,000 units, over 2 days, then yes its DEAD, thanks to iPhone 3.

For the most part they pre's customer base will be current sprint customers that for some reason or another can't switch to att.
all these iphone wannabees will continue to be around while att retain's iphone exclusivity, the day iphone sells to all networks (in one or two years) then palm and blackberry will be screwed.
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