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iPhone rival Palm Pre to sell for $199 after rebate on June 6th - Page 8

post #281 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

A while back I linked to a discussion at Ars wherein an iPhone developer (of the very well received "Now Playing" app) discusses why he, as a developer, wouldn't want Apple to allow third party multi-tasking at current hardware levels, and how that very issue has proven to be a pain in the ass when developing for Android.

His argument boils down to this: a phone is a hideously constrained development environment, where memory and CPU cycles are at an intense premium. If "background apps" can steal cycles/ram, it means his app, when open, is going to take a performance hit, and he doesn't have any control over that. But the user only knows that the app is dog slow, or decides that there's something wrong with the phone.

He describes his experience with developing for Android, where this very thing happens.

So when it comes to "multitasking", a hardware manufacturer has several choices: they can open it up so that anyone who want to write an app that runs in the background can do so, and leave it up to the user to figure out what's gone wrong when an app misbehaves-- as indicated by terrible battery life, shitty performance, or both.

Or, they can allow "some" multitasking, by either severely vetting candidate apps, or limiting how many apps can run in the background or both. Apple will likely take this route at some point.

Or you can do what Palm has done, which is to use a lightweight OS that puts fewer demands on the processor/battery/ram, but at the expense of limiting the depth of apps that can be run.

Even then, we don't know yet what the battery life for the Pre will be like, or what mechanisms are in place to insure that a misbehaving app doesn't completely kill performance/battery life, or how a user would go about identifying/killing such an app.

A lot of the "multitasking" discussion is rolling forward from the state of things a few years ago, when it was considered perfectly acceptable to subject the user to a "task manager" and expect him/her to figure out were the trouble lay and kill off processes accordingly.

That kind of thing is why, until the iPhone, "smartphones" lived in their little geek ghetto.

Plenty of enthusiasts posting on the internet think it would be great to have granular control over their phones processes, and don't see it a drawback if they are in fact obliged to utilize such control, or have their phone not work very well.

But in the iPhone era this is no longer good enough. The average user (and yes, I mean average, not stupid or trendy or sheep like or toy loving, just normal folks) want their phone to work for them, not the other way around, not matter how much that offends the Gizmodo commentariat.

So to answer the "what about video, huh" thing: I get to chose when I record video, and I can make a pretty reliable calculation as to how that is going to effect battery life. With background processes, unless I spend a lot of time monitoring my phone's innards and manually managing tasks, things can happen without my permission or knowledge that are simply going to seem to me as if the app/phone is broken.

Apple will never allow that to happen.

Right!
post #282 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Air has nothing to do with it. This works by electromagnetic induction. It would work in a vacuum.

Fine - magnetism isn't as efficient as copper. Inefficiency is often expressed as heat. Transformers are large inductors - feel an active wall-wart - it gets quite warm when you are pulling a load from it.

Now instead of one inductor, you are going to have two. Not a very green solution - no doubt Greenpeace will be all over Palm just like they have been with Apple.
post #283 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

And what feature is this Pre bringing that haven't been out in phones for years, name one feature?

A gesture area as well as a multitouch screen. A system wide search that also searches within the cloud. A 900 MHz processor which will allow using the cards multi app multitAsking feature a pleasant experience. Don't listen to all the BS about battery life. iPhone spent implement multitasking because the phone lags while using the SMS app... The phone would explode if they tried to have more then 1 app open at once. I tried the jailbreak app 'backrounder' to allow multitasking and it just lags so much it's rediculous. And even if it does affect battery life why does apple get to choose how much battery life I get to use?!? I am getting a Pre I really can't wait to toss this crap iPhone 3g
post #284 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macintosh_Next View Post

However, since I can't get the iPhone with my Sprint, and you will be able to get a Web OS/Palm Pre with your AT&T, what will you say then?

Nothing, I live in Canada.

But I still don't understand your point. AT&T has the better network, generally speaking, so why would I possibly want to change to a new phone so that I can use an inferior network?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macintosh_Next View Post

If rumors are true, AT&T is getting a Pal Eos that has the WebOS (although it seems to be a Centero replacement, not a powerhouse) but still, thats the reason the Pre has a chance.

Big deal. If there was any reason to, Apple could unlock the iPhone or make a CDMA version as well. The fact that they haven't done so speaks volumes about the reality of this "problem". If this really was the problem you're claiming it is, why isn't the G1 the best selling phone in the world?

Maury
post #285 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel0418 View Post

The phone would explode if they tried to have more then 1 app open at once.

So if I'm listening to a song with the iPod app, then switch over and start surfing with Safari is Safari now playing my song, or is the iPod app running in the background?
post #286 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Fine - magnetism isn't as efficient as copper. Inefficiency is often expressed as heat. Transformers are large inductors - feel an active wall-wart - it gets quite warm when you are pulling a load from it.

Now instead of one inductor, you are going to have two. Not a very green solution - no doubt Greenpeace will be all over Palm just like they have been with Apple.

It's not that simple either. It's not that magnetism isn't as efficient as copper, that statement makes no sense. You're talking about two different things. Copper is a conductor, and electromagnetism is a force.

Efficiency is determined by coupling. I don't want to give a course on basic electricity here. Do I have to?
post #287 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

All phones and rechargers get hot. I don't see why this would get any hotter. It's all about the rate of charge.

Prior technologies for inductive charging have used lower frequencies and older drive technologies, and generally charge slowly and generate heat for most portable electronics,[citation needed] though the technology is used in some electric toothbrushes and wet/dry electric shavers, partly for the advantage that the battery contacts can be completely sealed to prevent exposure to water.

Newer approaches with ultra thin coils, higher frequencies and optimized drive electronics provide chargers and receivers that are compact, efficient[citation needed] and can be integrated into mobile devices or batteries with minimal change. These technologies provide charging time that are the same as wired approaches and are finding their way into mobile devices rapidly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inducti..._disadvantages So we were right about the way it used to be and you are correct about the new inductive charging. That answers my questions about that for the time being. Still would like to see the comparisons when the Pre arrives.
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post #288 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

Nothing, I live in Canada.

Best line in the entire thread
post #289 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Given the hyper-competitive environment that the Pre is launching into, and the necessity of doing well out of the gate, I'd have to assume that Palm didn't think they could actually make enough money simply selling the Pre for $199

Oh, I'm pretty sure Palm had nothing to do with this. After all, Sprint is the ones with the rebate plan, and they're the ones paying for the phones in the first place.

From Sprint's perspective, there's no downside - if people don't apply for the rebate then hey, free money. From Palm's perspective there's a lot of downside. If people are upset about Sprint's dealings, this will rub off on the Pre. One more reason not to have selected Sprint as their launch partner, IMHO.

Maury
post #290 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Best line in the entire thread

Hehe
post #291 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

Speaking of charging, how well does everyone think the "wireless charger" that supposedly comes with the pre will work?

I do, but a better question is "why"? Seriously, if this was a mat on the tabletop that's one thing, but in fact the Pre has to be carefully aligned with the charger to work at all - and that's just for charging, it doesn't do data or anything else. So you replace a small multi-function cable with a much larger single-function cable. Why-tech at its finest. Looks cool though, I'll give it that.
post #292 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

From Sprint's perspective, there's no downside - if people don't apply for the rebate then hey, free money. From Palm's perspective there's a lot of downside. If people are upset about Sprint's dealings, this will rub off on the Pre. One more reason not to have selected Sprint as their launch partner, IMHO.

Sprint has a downside, too. There is a 50% higher out-of-pocket expense at the time you buy the device compared to most other smartphones. I think they will be dropping the rebate plan in favour of a $199 Pre before the next iPhone arrives.
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post #293 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post



Newer approaches with ultra thin coils, higher frequencies and optimized drive electronics provide chargers and receivers that are compact, efficient[citation needed] and can be integrated into mobile devices or batteries with minimal change. These technologies provide charging time that are the same as wired approaches and are finding their way into mobile devices rapidly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inducti..._disadvantages

Yes, that's what I'm saying. There's nothing inherent in inductive charging that's inefficient. As I've tried to explain to DocNo42, it's a matter of coupling. Everything being equal, how close can they get the concerned parts of the recharger and device being charged? The closer, the more effective it will be. It's why transformer coils are wound together, and have very thin insulation.
post #294 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

NIf I'm happily chatting away on Palringo, and I get an email, I have to shut Palringo down completely, logging me off, to go and read that email.

As I noted earlier, this problem could be eliminated by having Palringo be a plug-in in the Phone app. It would give you 100% of the functionality you ask for here, without having to have the full Palringo app running in the background. The library would be loaded if, and when, it needed to be, and not eat a single cycle otherwise.

Maury
post #295 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

I do, but a better question is "why"? Seriously, if this was a mat on the tabletop that's one thing, but in fact the Pre has to be carefully aligned with the charger to work at all - and that's just for charging, it doesn't do data or anything else. So you replace a small multi-function cable with a much larger single-function cable. Why-tech at its finest. Looks cool though, I'll give it that.

Since this is just for recharging, I don't see a problem. The stand will be made to fit the phone properly, so that it sits to its best advantage.

You ask for a good reason? Well, how about the fact that no plug and socket will be needed? Meaning that there isn't anything to break when a recharge only is needed?
post #296 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Sprint has a downside, too. There is a 50% higher out-of-pocket expense at the time you buy the device compared to most other smartphones. I think they will be dropping the rebate plan in favour of a $199 Pre before the next iPhone arrives.

True, true.
post #297 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Since this is just for recharging, I don't see a problem. The stand will be made to fit the phone properly, so that it sits to its best advantage.

No, that's exactly my point. The cable I use to charge my iPhone is not just a charger, it's also the data cable. When I plug in, I automatically sync all my mail, apps, music, everything.

But on the Pre, I have to drag all my music to a data card and then put that into the phone? Yuk! I get all the cable-attachness badness with none of the data syncing goodess. Sign me up!

Now a brick with a built in low-power WiFi point that USB's from there to computer and sync software that auto-detected when you plugged in and set up a secure, randomized channel? Now THAT would actually be useful.

Quote:
You ask for a good reason? Well, how about the fact that no plug and socket will be needed? Meaning that there isn't anything to break when a recharge only is needed?

Nothing to break... like the brick itself? No really, I'm all ears, how is this thing plugged into the wall any different than the cable plugged into the wall? If you clip the cable the phone is still going to end up crashing to the floor. This isn't like the MagSafe, from what I've seen it's attached quite strongly to the charger.

Maury
post #298 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

No, that's exactly my point. The cable I use to charge my iPhone is not just a charger, it's also the data cable. When I plug in, I automatically sync all my mail, apps, music, everything.

But on the Pre, I have to drag all my music to a data card and then put that into the phone? Yuk! I get all the cable-attachness badness with none of the data syncing goodess. Sign me up!

Now a brick with a built in low-power WiFi point that USB's from there to computer and sync software that auto-detected when you plugged in and set up a secure, randomized channel? Now THAT would actually be useful.

I think we're talking about two different things here. I'm addressing the inductive recharger, not their normal method of moving data around.


Quote:
Nothing to break... like the brick itself? No really, I'm all ears, how is this thing plugged into the wall any different than the cable plugged into the wall? If you clip the cable the phone is still going to end up crashing to the floor. This isn't like the MagSafe, from what I've seen it's attached quite strongly to the charger.

Maury

How about breaking Apple's cable, the socket on the phone, and yes, their little wall recharger?

Let's keep to one thing at a time. every time I recharge Apple's phone from their little wall recharger, I have to plug the cable into TWO sockets. One in the recharger, and one in the phone. That's four connectors that can break.

With an inductive recharger, there NO connectors or cables to break.

Yes, the recharger can break, just as Apple's can.
post #299 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

So if I'm listening to a song with the iPod app, then switch over and start surfing with Safari is Safari now playing my song, or is the iPod app running in the background?

This is multitasking to you? On the pre you can listen to your iPod while looking up directions and browsing on the web and flipping through apps to see if I got the email you were waiting for. On the iPhone of u get an address in an email and you look up directions then go back to mail app to double check it has to load again, then u go back to the maps app and u miss your turn because that has to load again. iPhone sucks
post #300 of 430
Rebates are no fun thats for sure, but I have to wonder if Sprint is going to go the way of a prepaid debit card vs an actual check. How many people are going to be upset when they charged $299.00 plus tax on their credit card only to find out that they might get a prepaid debit card instead. Not easy to make a credit card payment with a debit card. Guess we will find out soon enough.
post #301 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Numbers released by industry publications give those numbers. I've even seen numbers up to 70% unredeemed.

fair enough, i stand corrected. I had no idea that many people were so happy to leave money on the table, lol. That said, i'm happy to purchase my mobile phones from Apple, who does not require mail-in rebates (for their phones, at least....as for their printers, they made the rebate process extremely easy - online redemption and the check is in your mailbox in under a week).
post #302 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

I'm sorry - you have a Pre already? ****

EDIT

Language

Nope, but plan on getting one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

Nothing, I live in Canada.

But I still don't understand your point. AT&T has the better network, generally speaking, so why would I possibly want to change to a new phone so that I can use an inferior network?

The point is far from that. I was saying that with your AT&T, you can still get the Palm Pre. In fact, some people might want to wait to see if it really is better then the iPhone -- and if you think so a year from now, good, buy it on your AT&T and forget Sprint.

Quote:
Big deal. If there was any reason to, Apple could unlock the iPhone or make a CDMA version as well. The fact that they haven't done so speaks volumes about the reality of this "problem". If this really was the problem you're claiming it is, why isn't the G1 the best selling phone in the world?

Maury

AT&T and Apple wanted an exclusive contract. However, have you not read the articles on THIS web site that point to the fact that the iPhone might have reached a growth climax and wont be able to expand and sell many more units because of being on one network? You can only sell how many units that your carrier has customers, and expanding to Verizon will give you more customers to sell to, which fixes your growth rate problem.

However, where it took two maybe three years for Apple to be able to fix this problem, due to Apple signing the long contact, Palm will only have this problem for a year (which is what the exclusive contract with the Pre ends, at least our best guess because thats what usually happens).

Oh, the G1 as far as I know is only on T-Mobile, unless you unlock it yourself, and from what I heard, it sucks. And look at the thing -- it looks like it sucks. I hate how HTC always makes an ugly product at first, then makes a sexy one. They always do that.

So hate Sprint. Whats your reason for not getting Pre when it comes to your home? We shall find out.
post #303 of 430
The current and soon to be discontinued iPhone 3G still looks great compared to the Palm Pre that still has yet to be released.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/05/pre-vs-iphone/
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post #304 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macintosh_Next View Post

AT&T and Apple wanted an exclusive contract. However, have you not read the articles on THIS web site that point to the fact that the iPhone might have reached a growth climax and wont be able to expand and sell many more units because of being on one network? You can only sell how many units that your carrier has customers, and expanding to Verizon will give you more customers to sell to, which fixes your growth rate problem.

However, where it took two maybe three years for Apple to be able to fix this problem, due to Apple signing the long contact, Palm will only have this problem for a year (which is what the exclusive contract with the Pre ends, at least our best guess because thats what usually happens).

You refer to these exclusivity contracts as a problem yet handset vendors keep creating this problem. If the goal is merely to sell more units then why not sell it to all carriers in all countries right out of the gate?
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post #305 of 430
I'm reading all this crap about the pre and multitasking apps but I thought (based on previews etc of the Pre) that the apps were not actual full blown applications (like on the iPhone) but merely HTML5 web apps. Also Palm have, so far, only given one company access to the actual hardware for app creation.

This means that its pretty unlikely to see anything that runs full opengl games etc with any degree of speed until Palm let companies code to the hardware. Until then its multitasking glorified web apps.
post #306 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

there are already rumors that Palm is going to have a model for Verizon later this year

As a former AT&T and former Sprint customer, I have appreciated the improved service, more reliable billing (don't get me started about Sprint billing), and wide availability of no-drop signals on Verizon.

My wish list calls for the iPhone to land on Verizon this year. But if the Pre makes it and iPhone remains an AT&T property, that would make a difference to me.

Otherwise, I'll choose the best phone available on Verizon this year and take a fresh look at my iPhone options when the 2-yr agreement is over.

For the moment, I'm waitin' and watchin'. I don't feel the same passion about the phone as many do; bottom line, phones are tools - even though some of those tools are more desireable than others..
post #307 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

the Palm Pre is hot.

HOT HOT HOT.

its the only other phone that I want... Can't wait till it comes to Canada.

I will switch from the iPhone....


No App store, No iTunes, No SDK......patent infringement on multi-touch. This thing is dead in the water and it has not even been released...... If this phone does not sell, its the end of the road for Palm. Good Luck
post #308 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post

No App store, No iTunes, No SDK......patent infringement on multi-touch. This thing is dead in the water and it has not even been released...... If this phone does not sell, its the end of the road for Palm. Good Luck

We only have a simple comment from Apple stating they will defend their patents but they never mentioned Palm and we dont have any evidence that they are infringing on Apples multi-touch patents or anyone elses.
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post #309 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

I do, but a better question is "why"? Seriously, if this was a mat on the tabletop that's one thing, but in fact the Pre has to be carefully aligned with the charger to work at all - and that's just for charging, it doesn't do data or anything else. So you replace a small multi-function cable with a much larger single-function cable. Why-tech at its finest. Looks cool though, I'll give it that.

Powermat (http://powermatusa.com/index.html) is just such a mat which will be able to charge multiple devices. Initially with a required adapter (receiver) strapped to the phone or mp3 player or what have you, but the goal is to have the manufacturers eventually build them in. It looks like a promising technology. The charging mat identifies and then appropriately charges the device dropped on it. Magnetic media is not affected by the charger.

BTW, the Toutchstone uses magnets to properly align the Pre. The phone is also switched to speaker mode when in place.
post #310 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

We only have a simple comment from Apple stating they will defend their patents but they never mentioned Palm and we dont have any evidence that they are infringing on Apples multi-touch patents or anyone elses.

You are correct; however, the timing of Apple's statement was important. Palm's CEO had just overstated the capabilities of the Palm with respect to the iPhone which caused the Palm lawyers to retract many of the over-enthusiatic wordings of the CEO. Apple rarely makes comments regarding IP protection. I'm certainly no genius, but I do notice the obvious.

I'm excited about the intense competition in the mobile market...we all benefit in the end; however, until Apple's mobile competitors create an excellent SDK with rich benefits for developers s well as a store to support the marketing of the apps, they will always be playing "catch-up". A friend of mine is making $1200 per week on his 99 cent calculator. He said 90% of the programmers in his CS classes are jumping to the iPhone platform to develop apps.

Any mobile competitor who does not have a rich SDK should not compare their phone to the iPhone. Palm should compare the Pre to the Storm. 40,000 apps, 1 billion downloads and millionare home-based developers WOW! I believe Pre should be promoting an incredible SDK to encourage iPhone developers to port their money-making apps to the Pre.
post #311 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You refer to these exclusivity contracts as a problem yet handset vendors keep creating this problem. If the goal is merely to sell more units then why not sell it to all carriers in all countries right out of the gate?

First off, carriers and handset manufactures (such as Palm and Apple) are two different companies with two different goals. Sprint's goal with the Palm Pre is to get more people. It wont happen if there isn't some sort of exclusiveness. So, Palm does so, and Sprint helps with marketing, they discount the price with rebates, and so on, to help sell the device. In some cases, the carrier (such as AT&T and Apple) work together to make a better experience (such as creating the visual voicemail feature everyone loves) and other times, they only help out with money.

However, look at the Blackberry. You see that one one carrier? How about that Palm, you see that on one carrier? How about that Samsung Instinct, is that still only on Sprint (Sorta is, but Samsung has created "different names" for pretty much the same device. My friend has one of them, the Delve for US Cellular. Good phone. Same thing {pretty much} as the Instinct)?

What about that iPhone, you see that on one carrier -- oh, wait, you do. And you know what Apple gets for this exclusiveness? Number two, just like AT&T is. What is number one? The Blackberry Curve. Know what is number three? Another Blackberry. Number four? Another Blackberry. All-in-all, the Blackberry (Q1 09) has 50% of the market, with Palm way in the back (mainly because lately, their phones suck butt compared to iPhone/Backberry/HTC), but still. Is that bad that Apple is number two? No, but they actually lost 10% of the market. Lost. And now someone else is making a new OS with a new phone(s) that will be on multiple carriers.

It's business man. Every company looks out for itself. Sprint needs phones that are cool, and Palm and Sprint have been bud's for a while. So they work together to bring a great product, and then they can go their own way. AT&T and Apple will probably always have a good relationship for the same reason, and any "new device" they make, will more then likely come to AT&T first. But, at some point, Apple will move the iPhone to another carrier. Why? Not because they want to help another carrier, but because they know what I say is true. They have known this.

(Source: http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...ve-in-q109.ars)

So there you go. There might be a lot of stuff that I left out, the business world is a big place with many answers to one question, but pretty much, thats the way I see it. It's the same in any market. Software for Windows/Mac, games for Wii/ps3/x360, app's for phones -- you always ask those questions. When you go to a carrier, you ask "What phones does it have?" Sure, thats not the only question, but you ask. If Sprint was the best carrier, and you were a die hard fan of the iPhone, I bet you would stay with your iPhone and not leave AT&T. Why? Because Sprint doesn't have the phone you want. However, if you were a Blackberry fan, you could make that switch. And there is the point -- more phones you have on different carriers, and the more phones you make (such as the Palm Pre, the Palm Treo, the Palm Eos -- all for different ppl), the more market share you can get. Companies like Palm could easily keep the Pre exclusive forever -- and just make another phone with WebOS and it would essentially be the same phone. Then Sprint still goes strong, and Palm is able to grow and get more money. Apple could do that with the iPhone (they wont) but they could. Blackberry has 50% of the market not because of one phone, but because of many phones across different carriers (although, really, all made for business people -- for the most part). See the point? good.
post #312 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

I've been waiting for someone to point out a single killer feature on this phone for weeks now. Here we are, approaching launch, and I still haven't seen one. Let's see: it's fat and heavy, it's linked to Sprint who is widely derided as the worst US carrier, it has no apps (yet) and the company is short on cash.

Now we learn it doesn't even compete on price, until after a mail-in rebate? Mail in rebate? Are you joking?!

Dead.

Wait, here's something: "You can move back and forth between text messaging and e-mail, or search the web while you listen to music," the company said. "You can rearrange items simply by dragging them, and when you are done with something, just throw it away by flicking it off the top of the screen.

Wow! All the things I already do on my iPhone. No seriously, I can do every single one of those things right now. SMS comes up in a pop-up when you're in other apps, and the iPod plays under everything else.

Dead.

Maury

You obviously didn't see complete presentation on Palm's site - I think it was from Vegas, and had 10 or so video clips - each maybe 5 minutes long.

Clips did very good job on showing philosophy of Pre's software. I like how iPhone works - a colleague sitting next to me has one so I did spend significant time playing with it - but much as I can say from video clips, Pre's software might be even more streamlined for mobile usage. Synergy looks brilliant.

Cards are cute way to organize desktop, but Pre has much more underneath than fancy card-dealing interface.
post #313 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel0418 View Post

This is multitasking to you?

If it's not multiasking, what is it then?

Quote:
On the pre you can...

Really, you have one?

Or wait, you linked to an independent review that we have missed?

Or your talking out your butt about an un-released product that no one other then a Palm employee has been able to touch?

I vote C but am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt....
post #314 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

You obviously didn't see complete presentation on Palm's site - I think it was from Vegas, and had 10 or so video clips - each maybe 5 minutes long.

That's fine as long as it still works that way when they ship. There was a time when vendors were ridiculed for "demos" that were given from VCR tapes, yet Palm gets a pass?

Why aren't there demo units out to the press for review if they are this close to release? Somethings fishy....
post #315 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Day Breakfast View Post

I suspect that Pre will be an interesting phone but solidly in the tradition that iPhone invented. Hard to know on a practical level how it will function until there's hands' on experience. It may make a small dent in prospective iPhone buyers but more likely it will only help grow the smart phone market and the big 3 in this space all gain (RIMM, Apple, Android). iPhone sales certainly won't be going down anytime soon. Competition is good for Apple though unlike other companies it doesn't rest on its laurals. Palm is in trouble however on their financials. I read an analysis that said Palm would need to sell 8 million Pre in year 1 just to stay in business. Would Msoft be interested in buying this company? Gruber thinks their getting ready to buy RIM but I think palm. Msoft have nothing to compete with in this space and seemingly incapable of engineering one.

On an aesthetic note I think it (Pre) looks a bit stodgy.

Yeah, I'm not sure about that pebble look either... but thicker device with smaller surface might actually fit nicely in one's hand and be really handy for single hand use. I'll need to have one of them in my hand to make final judgement.

I also tend to like mechanical keyboards - they don't take half of the screen off when engaged. Question remains how good that keyboard is.
post #316 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

Indeed; it's not surprising that there were zero touch-screen phones on the market before Apple, and now 8 of the top 10 sellers are touch-screen. Apple created this market.

Palm phones - and Treo phones before them, much as I recall, were always touch screen. They started appearing back in 2002. Also some Windows mobile devices, I think. Touch screen PDAs are around from 1998, if not longer.

Of course they were not as advanced as iPhone's touch screen, but they were around way before...
post #317 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Palm phones - and Treo phones before them, much as I recall, were always touch screen. They started appearing back in 2002. Also some Windows mobile devices, I think. Touch screen PDAs are around from 1998, if not longer.

Of course they were not as advanced as iPhone's touch screen, but they were around way before...

Not touch screen-- stylus. Huge difference, with a completely different style of interaction.

Apple basically invented the touch/tap/flick/pinch/gesture/flow style of UI that everyone wants to copy.
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post #318 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macintosh_Next View Post

AT&T and Apple wanted an exclusive contract. However, have you not read the articles on THIS web site that point to the fact that the iPhone might have reached a growth climax and wont be able to expand and sell many more units because of being on one network? You can only sell how many units that your carrier has customers, and expanding to Verizon will give you more customers to sell to, which fixes your growth rate problem.

However, where it took two maybe three years for Apple to be able to fix this problem, due to Apple signing the long contact, Palm will only have this problem for a year (which is what the exclusive contract with the Pre ends, at least our best guess because thats what usually happens).

You're missing a point about Apple's exclusive contract with AT&T.

Apple needed an exclusive contract with a company that was willing to allow Apple to do what they thought they needed to do. AT&T was willing to allow that. But in return AT&T needed the exclusivity. If Apple wouldn't give them that, why would they have bothered to build out their network, re-work their software for Apple's Visual E-mail, and give them the right to build an app store that they got nothing out of, as well as allow them to sell music and ringtones, again, without getting anything for it?

No other network anywhere around the world had allowed all this to any other manufacturer. Some of it, no one else had even thought of doing!

Apple broke the unwritten contract between cell phone manufacturers and cell network providers. They revolutionized the industry. And that's not overestimating what happened.

AT&T needed a several year deal for them to make back the enormous amount of money they had to spend in order to make this work, plus a good enough amount of profit.

But all deals end. This isn't a 20 year contract, a 10 year contract, and likely not a 5 year contract. Maybe just a 3 year contract, which seems reasonable.

Possibly now, AT&T wishes it was a 5 year, or longer contract.

But in 2010, though more likely 2011 to 2012, when LTE is established across the country, we'll see Verizon withthe iPhone as well.

Sprint seems to be going in another direction entirely, which isn't a good thing for them. If they continue on that path, they will be shut out of most phones that they would want and need.

The truth is that with both AT&T and Verizon using LTE, it will put both Sprint and T-Mobile in a corner.

It will do irreparable damage to both their businesses.

Palm, on the other hand, has a (short?) exclusive contract with a company that bleeding customers. Not the best of all possible worlds. You can bet that they wish it was otherwise, but likely, they had no choice.

As I said earlier, if the Pre doesn't sell enough within the time it's exclusive to Sprint, what will happen to a deal with Verizon? If sales blister, Verizon will want it, but if they blow, they might not. They might take it anyway, but at what cost to Palm?
post #319 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Palm phones - and Treo phones before them, much as I recall, were always touch screen. They started appearing back in 2002. Also some Windows mobile devices, I think. Touch screen PDAs are around from 1998, if not longer.

Of course they were not as advanced as iPhone's touch screen, but they were around way before...

I think he means capacitive touch screens that use a finger tip without having the smack the screen as I had to do with my Samsung and Treo's resistive non-touch screens.

The beauty of a capacitive screen is that you just need the finest whisper of a touch for it to work.

With the other screens, I sometimes found that I had to rap the screen before it registered a hit.
post #320 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

At 4.76 ounces each, that amounts to 6723 phones. I agree that sales will be poor,
but I think your estimate is a bit low.

haha awesome
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