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iPhone rival Palm Pre to sell for $199 after rebate on June 6th - Page 9

post #321 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I for one prefer multi apps because theiPod touch could use it as well whereas the Touch has no camera (yet)- so no video. I don't like to constantly relaunch the remote APP and have to search for my AppleTV with the remote AP. It kind of ruins its benefits. This applies to others Apps as well.

You can set Remote to stay connected to your iTunes Library with a warning that it may reduce battery life. Sorry to introduce facts to the discussion.
post #322 of 430
Before Palm or Windows Mobile even existed there was the Newton, the iPhone had it's roots many years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Palm phones - and Treo phones before them, much as I recall, were always touch screen. They started appearing back in 2002. Also some Windows mobile devices, I think. Touch screen PDAs are around from 1998, if not longer.

Of course they were not as advanced as iPhone's touch screen, but they were around way before...
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post #323 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Yes- 6 months supposedly after its release,it goes to Verizon. Did Palm make a CDMA version as well?

I don't know if someone answered you, but Sprint and Verizon are CDMA. Should be a snap for Palm to make a version for Verizon...probably silver like the Verizon 8800 series BlackBerry.


Bell Canada is also getting the Pre and they are CDMA (for now until the HSPA network goes live this fall)
post #324 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel0418 View Post

This is multitasking to you? On the pre you can listen to your iPod while looking up directions and browsing on the web and flipping through apps to see if I got the email you were waiting for. On the iPhone of u get an address in an email and you look up directions then go back to mail app to double check it has to load again, then u go back to the maps app and u miss your turn because that has to load again. iPhone sucks

Actually, iPhone caches the current state of the app so you don't have to reload an e-mail or map to resume use. Have you ever actually used one?
post #325 of 430
to live in the world of inductively charged devices. Neither my daughter is.

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People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #326 of 430
Wow, just wow at this thread.

Some of you must some serious self-esteem issues if you need to defend the box of wires you bought (or are planning to buy) with so much rage. Calm down.
post #327 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Sprint seems to be going in another direction entirely, which isn't a good thing for them. If they continue on that path, they will be shut out of most phones that they would want and need.

If Sprint's cut of wimax pans out fruit you might see them going with VOIP phones and not spending the $$$ on a 4G build out. I call it only a 1 in 10 shot though.
post #328 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

If Sprint's cut of wimax pans out fruit you might see them going with VOIP phones and not spending the $$$ on a 4G build out. I call it only a 1 in 10 shot though.

I had a heavy investment in that with Clearwire for a while. I almost lost a LOT on that, but just about broke even.

We read so much about wimax, both good and bad. I'm not so sure if Sprint waited too long. You might remember that they cut their investment in Clearwire, and announced that they were dropping the technology. Then almost a year later, they decided to jump back in. But they took baby steps. I'm also not sure if Intel has maintained their investment, as I've stopped following the whole mess.
post #329 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by markb View Post

...for the 5 minutes before the battery goes dead. Until there is some massive breakthrough in battery life or power consumption, push notification is a better model.

Palm claim the OS is lighter weight and so will use less battery.

It certainly sounds like an interesting device and could be the first real iPhone beater.
post #330 of 430
This whole arguement is so worthless. They compare iPhone 3g to the palm pre. Really?? Pre is better. Honestly I never liked either company but I got and iPhone and love it. That said. The pre is all in all better hardware wise. But. The iPhone 3g is 2 years old. Congrats palm. Only took 2 damn years. I also think apple has slowed that too much. I hope the have a few BA phones coming out. But the pre is new. The iPhone is 2 years old. The 3g was just added. Gps too but all of it was around before. We need the new iPhone and the pre to come out. Then we can argue. I think it's so stupid to compare the two. They are differnt. I like the keyboard but sees too big so I'm out on that one. The wireless charging. If I could be like 5ft away and be using it. It'd be awesome. Great concept but it's too early. I think that it only has 8gb is retarded. I'd like to see the battery life. I think the pre only makes palm look the same as all the other phones. The rebate?? Someone said they'd rather get 100 from palm than 0 from apple. What kind of arguement is that?????? I hate rebates. Useless trouble time and money. Taxes. I love my iPhone but I think it's worthless it took apple so long to get landscape keyboard all over.
Anyone know if iPhone 3.0 will send pictures via Bluetooth??
post #331 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I had a heavy investment in that with Clearwire for a while. I almost lost a LOT on that, but just about broke even.

BTW, thanks for that </sarcasm>


Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Palm claim the OS is lighter weight and so will use less battery.

It certainly sounds like an interesting device and could be the first real iPhone beater.

Based on all the info Ive read on WebOS it will be lighter, but will also be more limited in functionality because of the nature of the OS. The question is, will it satisfy the needs of enough users to be a win for Sprint and Palm?
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post #332 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Based on all the info Ive read on WebOS it will be lighter, but will also be more limited in functionality because of the nature of the OS. The question is, will it satisfy the needs of enough users to be a win for Sprint and Palm?


We can't imagine how lightweight the operating system should be to noticeably change the power consumption.
(don't get furious, no offence)

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post #333 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post


We can't imagine how lightweight the operating system should be to noticeably change the power consumption.
(don't get furious, no offence)

Sure we can. Put your iPhone on a scale and weigh it. The OS is very heavy. Palm in .2 ounces lighter, that is because of the lightweight OS.
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post #334 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Sure we can. Put your iPhone on a scale and weigh it. The OS is very heavy. Palm in .2 ounces lighter, that is because of the lightweight OS.

Indeed.

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People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #335 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

BTW, thanks for that </sarcasm>

If Sprint hadn't unexpectedly withdrawn its investment and support after having played it up so much, we would have been fine. After all, we can't go by unexpected developments. Then they had second thoughts, and came back in. Who expected that either? Clearwire's stock had been moving up very nicely, and after the big drop was creeping back to the levels we had bought it at. If you didn't sell too quickly, you would have been at about the place you started in.

You can only go on what you know, and by what seems likely. What Sprint did wasn't likely, and proving that, they had those second thoughts. Now, it seems, they're basing their entire strategy on it.

But now it also seems to be too late. Sprint went from a growing company when they were first involved with this, to a company that's in danger of going under and having the parts sold off.

Quote:
Based on all the info I’ve read on WebOS it will be lighter, but will also be more limited in functionality because of the nature of the OS. The question is, will it satisfy the needs of enough users to be a win for Sprint and Palm?

like with all other smartphones, this will be compared to what the iPhone can do. If this came out before the 3G, and OS 2, it would be the new standard that the iPhone would have had to match and better.

But it's the other way around. If iPhone apps can do things these can't, then that's a big problem. If iPhone apps can be bigger, and more complex, such as with games, then that's a big problem.

Owners of the Pre will be looking at what comes out for it, and whether it matches what is coming out on the iPhone.

They also have a lot of catching up to do. I don't think the emulation is going to be quite as good as some are assuming it will be. Older apps have a lot of reliance on the hardware. I assume, from what we're learning about the Pre and WebOS, that much of that will be abstracted. It's like Apple's emulators. Something has to give.
post #336 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Sure we can. Put your iPhone on a scale and weigh it. The OS is very heavy. Palm in .2 ounces lighter, that is because of the lightweight OS.

Heh! I was thinking the same thing.
post #337 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

If Sprint's cut of wimax pans out fruit you might see them going with VOIP phones and not spending the $$$ on a 4G build out. I call it only a 1 in 10 shot though.

WiMax?! *chuckle*

Stick a fork in it.

Maury
post #338 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

It certainly sounds like an interesting device and could be the first real iPhone beater.

Wow, never heard that before... oh wait, I did, for every single new phone since the iPhone was released.

I'm not some fanboi, competition is good and Apple is a fierce competitor - a real iPhone killer would just make the iPhone that much better. But so far we've seen the same parade of hopes and failures as the iPod before.

Maury
post #339 of 430
With all the iPhone beaters out there, this stat is useful to see.

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/we...omments/21174/
post #340 of 430
the only - and I mean the only - company, which never claimed they're making "iPhone killer" was RIM.
Why so childish whim to kill?

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post #341 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

If Sprint hadn't unexpectedly withdrawn its investment and support after having played it up so much, we would have been fine.

Balogna. WiMax is dead, and it has been since LTE came down the pipe. This is the dead cat bounce.

LTE offers higher speed, faster inter-tower switching, was designed for cells from the start, and has a long string of backward compatibility all the way down to the original GSM. WiMax is slower, was originally designed for static last-mile hauling to fixed in-house points, and has zero backward compatibility. Everyone in the world is already well along their LTE rollout plans, exactly one carrier in the world is rolling out WiMax.


This means that, as a cell network, LTE is going to be supported by every handset in the world, and WiMax by... anyone at all? Really, you'd have to be a moron to invest in this tech. Which says, to me, a whole lot about Sprint's desperation.

Maury
post #342 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

the only - and I mean the only - company, which never claimed they're making "iPhone killer" was RIM.
Why so childish whim to kill?

At various times, both the Bold and the Storm were being vetted as iPhone "killers". Neither has gotten the sales to come close to that though. We're going to see a Storm 2 shortly.
post #343 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

Balogna. WiMax is dead, and it has been since LTE came down the pipe. This is the dead cat bounce.

It's not quite dead yet. But if it had been pushed more several years ago, before LTE started to be seen as a new way to go, it would have had a chance with Sprint.

Quote:
LTE offers higher speed, faster inter-tower switching, was designed for cells from the start, and has a long string of backward compatibility all the way down to the original GSM. WiMax is slower, was originally designed for static last-mile hauling to fixed in-house points, and has zero backward compatibility. Everyone in the world is already well along their LTE rollout plans, exactly one carrier in the world is rolling out WiMax.


This means that, as a cell network, LTE is going to be supported by every handset in the world, and WiMax by... anyone at all? Really, you'd have to be a moron to invest in this tech. Which says, to me, a whole lot about Sprint's desperation.

Maury

I'm not arguing this at all.

But times change. Often, whomever gets there first has an advantage. Sprint could have been there first, but they chickened out. Now, I feel it's too late.
post #344 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

At various times, both the Bold and the Storm were being vetted as iPhone "killers". Neither has gotten the sales to come close to that though. We're going to see a Storm 2 shortly.

Then they do, too? It's already annoying, all their chirps "killer, killer" coming from every last bird hole...

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post #345 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Then they do, too? It's already annoying, all their chirps "killer, killer" coming from every last bird hole...

Also, don't forget that, except for that idiot from Palm, none of the other manufacturers expressly came out and said that their phone was an iPhone "killer", or used another phrase like that.

It's been the blogisphere and the press that's been using those kinds of words.

Imagine what would happen if a company came out and claimed that their new phone was an iPhone "killer", and it failed to gain significant traction? They would be dragged down pretty quickly, and would be highly embarrassed.

That's why Palm took down their own leader when he made those dumb remarks about the iPhone. Their lawyers had to issue a retraction of what he had said.
post #346 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Also, don't forget that, except for that idiot from Palm, none of the other manufacturers expressly came out and said that their phone was an iPhone "killer", or used another phrase like that.

It's been the blogisphere and the press that's been using those kinds of words.

Imagine what would happen if a company came out and claimed that their new phone was an iPhone "killer", and it failed to gain significant traction? They would be dragged down pretty quickly, and would be highly embarrassed.

That's why Palm took down their own leader when he made those dumb remarks about the iPhone. Their lawyers had to issue a retraction of what he had said.

Ah, this was exactly what I meant from the beginning. It was company's official, who spoke that crap out. And I had impression, various LG/Samsung & Co also did.
I believe - OK, I am afraid - Palm will get exactly what you said above. They must not launch this product, while everyone's awaiting iPhone 3. And they actually have no choice.

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People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #347 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Ah, this was exactly what I meant from the beginning. It was company's official, who spoke that crap out. And I had impression, various LG/Samsung & Co also did.
I believe - OK, I am afraid - Palm will get exactly what you said above. They must not launch this product, while everyone's awaiting iPhone 3. And they actually have no choice.

I just read an article, where the author is enthusiastic about the Pre, but also states that Palm and Sprint may have been forced into releasing it when they are, because of the iPhone 3 launch.

He hopes it won't have the firmware defects the Storm had for so long after release, because it's coming out too early.
post #348 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Dude, it's even easier to not deal with rebates in the first place!

Why should I have to pay higher sakes taxes and let a company float on my money for a month or more?

Because they know a certain percentage of people won't follow through on the rebate, that's why! They aren't doing it as a favor to you.

Dude!

So why you are here pitching it as if it's some positive, fun activity is beyond me. Rebates suck, and are basically a gimmick. Palm/Sprint can't hang and they are having to resort to a sales gimmick - one that will rightly turn off a great many people.

Really? That's what you got from my posts? Can you read my other posts on it before assuming I'm "pitching it as a positive and fun activity" ??

Obviously it's far more easier not to deal with rebates. Obviously not everyone will follow through. And Obviously it's not a fun and positive experience. When did I say anything to contradict any of those previous statements?

Rebates offer companies a way to use all that money for a period of time to gain interest and make money at no cost to the customer. Rebates give companies reliable market research. Rebates are normal and you can find them in plenty of things, including Apple products.

I'm not saying I like the idea of a rebate. I'm not saying it's a good thing for anyone other than Palm. What I AM saying is that the rebate process is not as complicated as people here want to make it seem, and so people should not be afraid of it.
post #349 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

Really? That's what you got from my posts? Can you read my other posts on it before assuming I'm "pitching it as a positive and fun activity" ??

Obviously it's far more easier not to deal with rebates. Obviously not everyone will follow through. And Obviously it's not a fun and positive experience. When did I say anything to contradict any of those previous statements?

Rebates offer companies a way to use all that money for a period of time to gain interest and make money at no cost to the customer. Rebates give companies reliable market research. Rebates are normal and you can find them in plenty of things, including Apple products.

I'm not saying I like the idea of a rebate. I'm not saying it's a good thing for anyone other than Palm. What I AM saying is that the rebate process is not as complicated as people here want to make it seem, and so people should not be afraid of it.

As has been pointed out before, there is a cost to the consumer. The requirement, and this is by law in most places, is that the consumer must pay the taxes on the full price. It may not be much, but it is still a price. For a $100 rebate in NYC that's $8.65, and about to go up.
post #350 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I just read an article, where the author is enthusiastic about the Pre, but also states that Palm and Sprint may have been forced into releasing it when they are, because of the iPhone 3 launch.

He hopes it won't have the firmware defects the Storm had for so long after release, because it's coming out too early.

Obvious. The launch before iPhone 3 announcement? The half the market is waiting for iPhone 3, whence no big sales at the beginning. The launch after that? iPhone 3 will beat them. Bugs? The game's over this very moment.
N97 is in the same position.
I even think, Apple, if they wanted it badly, could delay the iPhone 3 presentation and would crush Palm's and Nokia's sales without lifting a finger.

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post #351 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macintosh_Next View Post

snip

However, am I the only one who is excited about the Pre being at Wally?

snip

yes!
post #352 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Obvious. The launch before iPhone 3 announcement? The half the market is waiting for iPhone 3, whence no big sales at the beginning. The launch after that? iPhone 3 will beat them. Bugs? The game's over this very moment.
N97 is in the same position.
I even think, Apple, if they wanted it badly, could delay the iPhone 3 presentation and would crush Palm's and Nokia's sales without lifting a finger.

Yeah, it's always a bad time to be releasing something right before Apple releases the same kind of product. The best time would have been in January. Late enough for the iPhone hype to have worn off from the summer release, and sales will have slowed down from to the holiday peak. Much earlier than the new iPhone hype to have really gotten into gear.

Of course, it's negative that it's also the slowest selling time of the year, but at least that would be taken into account in the press reporting of its sales.

Right now, even the slightest problem with the phone, or service, will be magnified.
post #353 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

As has been pointed out before, there is a cost to the consumer. The requirement, and this is by law in most places, is that the consumer must pay the taxes on the full price. It may not be much, but it is still a price. For a $100 rebate in NYC that's $8.65, and about to go up.

Good point, but I should have clarified what I meant. When all that money is sitting in Palm's bank account waiting to be sent back, Palm is making interest off it. This interest comes at no cost to anyone, so Palm is making money at no cost to the customer in this regard.

Paying taxes on the full purchase price is a major flaw in any rebate program. Appliances or expensive electronics all could have rebates, but given the price is so high, often the sales tax cuts into the rebate by a significant amount.

So after sales tax for Virginia, lets say the final price is more like 320. The money they get back will actually only be 80 bucks when taking sales tax out of the equation.


I've never said the rebate was a good thing. I've simply tried to explain from a business perspective why companies do it (including Apple, lets not forget) and that it's not as complicated of a process as people think, especially with Sprint phones. I think it will hurt Pre sales to an extent, but not as bad as people think. If someone wants a Pre, they'll put up with it.
post #354 of 430
In addition, Apple will be prancing out both software and hardware developers with new products that only the new ver. 3 OS will support. Products that no other phone can possibly have.

People will look at this and drool.

All Apple needs to show is some plug-in game controller that the phone and Touch sits in, and the "game" is over.

Also, when pictures of the two phones side by side come out, showing the noticeably smaller screen, people will start to go; "Hmmm!".

Those thinking the iPhone screen is a bit too small for easy reading will easily see the Pre's screen is obviously smaller still.

And unless they've fixed the problem of the top row of keys being too close to the bottom of the overlying front part, typing will be a problem, as a couple of those using it for a short time noticed.
post #355 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

Good point, but I should have clarified what I meant. When all that money is sitting in Palm's bank account waiting to be sent back, Palm is making interest off it. This interest comes at no cost to anyone, so Palm is making money at no cost to the customer in this regard.

Paying taxes on the full purchase price is a major flaw in any rebate program. Appliances or expensive electronics all could have rebates, but given the price is so high, often the sales tax cuts into the rebate by a significant amount.

So after sales tax for Virginia, lets say the final price is more like 320. The money they get back will actually only be 80 bucks when taking sales tax out of the equation.


I've never said the rebate was a good thing. I've simply tried to explain from a business perspective why companies do it (including Apple, lets not forget) and that it's not as complicated of a process as people think, especially with Sprint phones. I think it will hurt Pre sales to an extent, but not as bad as people think. If someone wants a Pre, they'll put up with it.

If someone wants something badly enough, they will put up with almost everything in order to get it. I'm sure that there will be people who don't care, or don't even understand the tax situation even as they are paying for it.

But it's just another thing to have to do.
post #356 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

All Apple needs to show is some plug-in game controller that the phone and Touch sits in, and the "game" is over.

Oh, that's particularly true!
Anecdotically, SFR (the french carrier) launched iPhone recently. They made many marketing mistakes, their audience is rather "proletariat". Youngsters cursed them and called them names around each corner. That was nearly a catastrophe. They negotiated urgently the deal with MTV to have it directly via their TV application.
The storm's calmed down instantly. "Super! Impec!" (great!)

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post #357 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

the Palm Pre is hot.

HOT HOT HOT.

its the only other phone that I want... Can't wait till it comes to Canada.

I will switch from the iPhone....

FWIW, this poll in NY Daily news shows Palm being desired almost 2 to 1 over next gen iPhone and 3G iphone combined...

http://www.nydailynews.com/tech_guid..._palm_pre.html

Even I was surprised... I mean it's NY Daily, not some rural mid US town, or like some local newspaper advertising a movie, 5 STARS THRILLER, says Star News Nebraska. LOL, no offense if you live in Nebraska, but if you notice, when a movie does well, the overvoice says, CRITICS FORM TIME, LA TIMES, THE BOSTON GLOBE, ROLLING STONE, say.... and when it bombs, they says, CRITICS SAY and then show clips from local newspapers you never heard of, well, this is a big newspaper so it's a big deal and it's in one of the busiest towns in America, NYC.



post #358 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel0418 View Post

This is multitasking to you? On the pre you can listen to your iPod while looking up directions and browsing on the web and flipping through apps to see if I got the email you were waiting for. On the iPhone of u get an address in an email and you look up directions then go back to mail app to double check it has to load again, then u go back to the maps app and u miss your turn because that has to load again. iPhone sucks

the pre comes with an ipod? sweet deal!
post #359 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

FWIW, this poll in NY Daily news shows Palm being desired almost 2 to 1 over next gen iPhone and 3G iphone combined...

http://www.nydailynews.com/tech_guid..._palm_pre.html

Even I was surprised... I mean it's NY Daily, not some rural mid US town, or like some local newspaper advertising a movie, 5 STARS THRILLER, says Star News Nebraska. LOL, no offense if you live in Nebraska, but if you notice, when a movie does well, the overvoice says, CRITICS FORM TIME, LA TIMES, THE BOSTON GLOBE, ROLLING STONE, say.... and when it bombs, they says, CRITICS SAY and then show clips from local newspapers you never heard of, well, this is a big newspaper so it's a big deal and it's in one of the busiest towns in America, NYC.




People who don't know much about these phones, and read this article will come away with the impression that everything he said is true. Actually, he glossed over much of his praise by not explaining exactly how these features work, or exactly what they are.

If, for example, he explained that the apps won't be much more than overblown widgets that are more limited than "real" programs, and likely won't equal the iPhone apps, how would people have voted then?

If he explained that the screen is noticeable smaller, how would people have voted?

If he mentioned that there were complaints that your fingers constantly hit the top part of the phone when you typed using the top row of keys, and it isn't known if they fixed that, how would people have voted?

I don't take that "poll" as being useful.
post #360 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

the pre comes with an ipod? sweet deal!

LOL Isnt it funny how the term "mp3 player" is synonymous with ipod these days?
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