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Microsoft's ads doing damage to Apple: study - Page 4

post #121 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I not saying your points don't apply. I'm saying only that the average consumer could care less about them when they buy anything- period. That's why Apple has to invade WalMArt now - to go after those that don't follow any of your points.

Hey now, WalMart has low prices, which means stupid poor people must shop there, which means it would lower Apple's "brand integrity" if they sold to these morons. Lets be realistic here. Stupid white trash that shop at WalMart have no place in the Apple community!

</sarcasm> (For those who don't understand it on the internet :P)
post #122 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Sorry, but I'm calling BS on this. The only way your statements are true is if you are the most incompetent computer user in the world and then insisted on running Windows on a failing hard drive (which would also make you incompetent).

Or maybe you shouldn't have picked up your copy of XP from a Torrent site.

After switching to Mac, I'm still incompetent - but my machine isn't.

And that, my friend, is no BS.
post #123 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post

The PC trackpads are still too small, even if it's possible to enable multi-touch on them. The lack of physical buttons allows Apple to make theirs bigger, which gives me twice as much scroll space on one swipe of my finger.

Yeah, I see how that would feel more comfortable. It's what you've become accustomed to though, and the same can be said by people in the opposite situation. They might dislike the absent buttons. As far as scroll space goes, if you increase the mouse speed all the way like I did on my moms, it becomes much less of an issue.

If you're ever forced to use a pc laptop's track pad, just increase sensitivity and scroll speed to max and you'll be as comfortable as you can get on a pc (which unfortunately might still not be as comfortable as a macbook ;P)
post #124 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Congratulations for sounding like you're part of that 90% you mentioned even if you are a Mac user.

It's arrogant, dumb a** comments like this make me never want to mention the fact that I own a Mac to people. I certainly don't want to be associated with pricks like you, but unfortunately your kind seems to be nearly half of the Apple using population.

I like u
post #125 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by xwiredtva View Post

As a user of 7, it's not bad but it doesn't come with anything in fact it comes with LESS than Vista or XP.

Maybe because its a beta.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xwiredtva View Post

As for the poll... I ran a poll with 5000 people and everyone sad MS sucked and they were never gonna use their stuff again... I ran it outside an office in Cupertino, does that matter?

My magic 8 ball says yes.
post #126 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

Hey now, WalMart has low prices, which means stupid poor people must shop there, which means it would lower Apple's "brand integrity" if they sold to these morons. Lets be realistic here. Stupid white trash that shop at WalMart have no place in the Apple community!

</sarcasm> (For those who don't understand it on the internet :P)

Next you'll be saying that fat people have no place owning thin computers.
post #127 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

Probably...

Just like Apple is trying very hard to get over the 10% marketshare in computers... Its taken how long? L>O>N>G!

You can't bring down the GIANT.

Now Microsoft will try with Windows 7. They listened to the customers and now the efforts are paying off.


Mac will have to be that much better iMO to remain at or above 8%

What is it that you think is so great about Windows 7? It's still Vista, it just has a closer-to-Mac coating of paint. Is that what you are implying that the customers have been asking for? People on XP will still have the same issues moving to 7 as if they moved to Vista now. I've used 7 and I'm not really that impressed, at all. I was thinking about upgrading Vista right away but after using their "dockbar" (taskbar/dock monstrosity), seeing their poor implementation of the Finder's sidebar, and seeing what little there is to offer, I can't really find a reason to do so anymore, unless it is steeply discounted, which I doubt will happen.

At least with Snow Leo there will be some serious under-the-hood changes (Grand Central, Open CL, fully 64 bit, etc.)
post #128 of 179
Apple basically brought this on themselves. Yes M$ has it's share of problems but Apple is just as guilty of spreading disinformation as M$ is, now it's coming back to them. Yes Vista was a horrible piece of crap in the beginning but it's stable now and was even before their ad campaigns began. M$ is just paying them back.
BTW not a M$ fanboy, posting this using my MBP, but I do run XP in Parallels.
post #129 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnash View Post

Apple basically brought this on themselves. Yes M$ has it's share of problems but Apple is just as guilty of spreading disinformation as M$ is, now it's coming back to them. Yes Vista was a horrible piece of crap in the beginning but it's stable now and was even before their ad campaigns began. M$ is just paying them back.
BTW not a M$ fanboy, posting this using my MBP, but I do run XP in Parallels.

Lot's of truth in that. You play the game, you gonna pay the price.
I can only imagine what's next- we'll see the Dell Dude (hair now dyed black, dressed like Justin Long) airheading about MAcs while the MIT grad & Corporate Banker show him that they prefer Windows. You'll see- payback is a BITCH.
post #130 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

Hey now, WalMart has low prices, which means stupid poor people must shop there, which means it would lower Apple's "brand integrity" if they sold to these morons. Lets be realistic here. Stupid white trash that shop at WalMart have no place in the Apple community!

</sarcasm> (For those who don't understand it on the internet :P)

Don't kid yourself, there are actually people who think like that...

Case in point:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy01 View Post

You really have to be an ignorant low class idiot to be a Windows user/deliberate PC buyer. There is no other way to put it. MS bet that 90% of the world population are imbeciles. Turns out they were right. Apple doesn't have to rule the world. We don't want that trash anyhow...MS can KEEP IT.
post #131 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

No. Because they haven't had an interesting, remotely compelling idea since Clippy.

That's hilarious.

And all too true.

But sadly the Borg lives on and on, having captured the mindset of IT departments worldwide decades ago, who continue to bow to Redmond whether they like it or not.

You see, always having something that constantly needs fixing and/or monitoring is what corporate IT is all about.

It's called job security....
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
Reply
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
Reply
post #132 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by jawporta View Post

Instead of spending millions on those dumb I'm a Mac ads. just make the computers cheaper. There's no way that white MacBook should cost $999, it should be $600 tops. The top case cracks and the hard drive is crap.

The MacBook Air. $500. It's slow, has no ports and less parts than the MacBook.

You're forgetting to mention the crap screen...
post #133 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

By the way,

The Dell XPS in the Microsoft ads has a serious 'screen open blocks heat vent' issue that severely overheats the machine so much that it burns your legs.

It also has a drastically shortened battery life (because of the heat issue perhaps)


What sort of savings is that if the dam thing is going to fail sooner than expected? It actually costs more in premature replacement.

You're bashing Dell because of heat issues? Isn't that the number one issue with Apple laptops?
post #134 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnash View Post

Apple basically brought this on themselves. Yes M$ has it's share of problems but Apple is just as guilty of spreading disinformation as M$ is, now it's coming back to them. Yes Vista was a horrible piece of crap in the beginning but it's stable now and was even before their ad campaigns began. M$ is just paying them back.
BTW not a M$ fanboy, posting this using my MBP, but I do run XP in Parallels.

So let me get this straight. You're not a real M$ fanboy.... you just play one on the internet?
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
Reply
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
Reply
post #135 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

So let me get this straight. You're not a real M$ fanboy.... you just play one on the internet?

I know your comment was lighthearted but it actually sheds light on something that I find disturbing; For whatever reason, people choose to believe someone has to be either for or against a company like Microsoft or Apple. If I ever defend Apple in pc forums, I get called an Apple fanboy troll. If I defend Microsoft or speak out against Apple in anyway here, I get called a Microsoft fanboy troll.

johnnash is just speaking truth. Apple's ads are misleading when it comes to "informing" potential customers about their competition. It's misinformation. But in response to that, all I can say is, IT'S AN ADVERTISEMENT lol. How many axe commercials do you see before you're convinced you'll get your brains f***ed out after applying their scent to your armpits?

I've said this before and I'll say it again: Listening to an Apple or Microsoft ad does not make someone an informed consumer. No matter how frustrating a Microsoft ad is to anyone here, they should take a look at Apple's ads and try to understand they are no better.

sry for the rant
post #136 of 179
Yeah, right!
post #137 of 179
I did not read every post, so I am not sure if someone said this....

Look at the graph, you can not draw any conclusion let alone correlation between what Apple maybe doing or what MS may be doing.

The graph starts at the beginning of the year and both were relatively the same and they both tanked as the economy tanked , then they both started to come back as the world was looking for any bright starts, then Apple tanked again as speculation about what Apple was going to do next and if Jobs was coming back and so on.

So does this measure people's value opinion of both companies or how they been feeling overall about the economy.

Again we have a group of MBA's doing some sort of data analysis and trying to show correlation where none may exist.

It is all FUD and I believe another attempt to manipulate the stock price
post #138 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

I know your comment was lighthearted but it actually sheds light on something that I find disturbing; For whatever reason, people choose to believe someone has to be either for or against a company like Microsoft or Apple. If I ever defend Apple in pc forums, I get called an Apple fanboy troll. If I defend Microsoft or speak out against Apple in anyway here, I get called a Microsoft fanboy troll.

johnnash is just speaking truth. Apple's ads are misleading when it comes to "informing" potential customers about their competition. It's misinformation. But in response to that, all I can say is, IT'S AN ADVERTISEMENT lol. How many axe commercials do you see before you're convinced you'll get your brains f***ed out after applying their scent to your armpits?

I've said this before and I'll say it again: Listening to an Apple or Microsoft ad does not make someone an informed consumer. No matter how frustrating a Microsoft ad is to anyone here, they should take a look at Apple's ads and try to understand they are no better.

sry for the rant

Two words: w00t w00t!
post #139 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

I almost didn't know if I should respond to this. This comment is so disgustingly ignorant it probably doesn't doesn't deserve attention from anybody. You say Apple is better off without stupid people, and yet here you are, saying things like this.

Well the world is better off without mediocrity and yet that's what MS offers, and essentially what you are defending, what 90% of the world accepts, ( through manipulation - remember once a lot of very intelligent people thought smoking was good too!), and therefore contributing to the general stagnation of the planet.

Why not push inefficient V8 engines from fat American motor companies as well while your at it ?

Where's the future we were promised 30 years ago when man landed on the moon ? Never arrived did it because 90% of the world accept whatever shit get's wrapped in cellophane and called 'the greatest' by the most economically powerful...the only reason MS are even trying a litter harder is because of Apple....

Microsoft is the ruling hegemony - that's all it exists to perpetuate - NOTHING ELSE.

Time to Wake up and understand the world you actually live in, rather than the one the TV is telling you you live in...

There's a reason MS used the 'flat earth theory' in their ad's and that was because sooner or later people were going to realise they were the force keeping the world in the dark ages.

Don't get me wrong, I know Apple's not perfect - heck a long way from it, but they at least hold aspirations towards this elusive thing called quality...at least they have a 'dream' I can believe in and act accordingly...


P.S - the only thing I'm sorry about is that my post may read a little elitist, because I don't condone that...and it seems to exist because of the the one terrible thing about Apple : their high prices. I do hope one day they become the best and the cheapest because then the less financially fortunate can enjoy them too, however in a capitalist labour economy that's VERY hard to accomplish. And I'd like to clarify that I'm not suggesting 90% of the word is an idiot. just those swayed by those stupid MS adverts reffered to in this survey...

BUT 90% of the world HAS been conned....
post #140 of 179
Advertising is usually misleading.

There is usually a little hyperbole.

But these Microsoft ads have been nothing but PURE BULLSHIT.

The HP v. MacBook type stuff, where they both have the same processor but the MacBook has 2GB of RAM and the HP 4GB of RAM, and the HP costs less.

As if that were all there was in the world!

1066MHz FSB (MacBook) v. 800MHz FSB (most HPs... STILL)
DDR3-1066 RAM (MacBook) v. DDR2-800 RAM (most HPs.... STILL)

What use is having the same processor if you cripple it?

Oh, and let us not forget that Vista is a freaking memory hog.

Never mind that all of these ads are focused on initial cost of the hardware and not cost over time, or additional software. Forget that Microsoft Office 2007 Home and Student will set you back $99, $129 or $149 depending on where you buy it from while iWork would set you back $40 with a new Mac. Home and Student includes Word, Excel and Powerpoint. iWork includes Pages, Numbers and Keynote. I may prefer Office '08 for Mac, but the average user doesn't need anything more than iWork provides.

Side thought: Why the heck does it cost the same to get the Mac version of Home and Student when it includes more? You see the Windows version again only has Word, Excel and Powerpoint but the Mac version has Word, Excel, Powerpoint and Entourage.

What about the cost of service?
The ease of service?
The cost of virus software?
Media software? Nero and Photoshop Elements together is the closest to replicating iLife, that's $49 for Nero and and $85.99 for Photoshop Elements off Newegg.

That's just a few examples.

My God in heaven, do people not think?
post #141 of 179
It is always nice to see evidence that the herd instinct is alive and well in America. Unfortunately, it comes at a cost...less critical thinking.
post #142 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by surferfromuk View Post

Well the world is better off without mediocrity and yet that's what MS offers, and essentially what you are defending, what 90% of the world accepts and therefore contributing to the general stagnation of the planet.

Why not push inefficient V8 engines from fat American motor companies as well while your at it ?

Where's the future we were promised 30 years ago when man landed on the moon ? Never arrived did it because 90% of the world accept whatever shit get's wrapped in cellophane and called 'the greatest' by the most economically powerful...the only reason MS are even trying a litter harder is because of Apple....

Microsoft is the ruling hegemony - that's all it exists to perpetuate - NOTHING ELSE.

Time to Wake up and understand the world you actually live in, rather than the one the TV is telling you you live in...

There's a reason MS used the 'flat earth theory' in their ad's and that was because sooner or later people were going to realise they were the force keeping the world in the dark ages.

Don't get me wrong, I know Apple's not perfect - heck a long way from it, but they at least hold aspirations towards this elusive thing called quality...at least they have a 'dream' I can believe in and act accordingly...

Your thoughts are all over the place. I understand what you're trying to say, but the ironic thing is you're telling people to understand the world they live in when it's clear you don't quite understand it. Saying that stupid people shouldn't buy Apple's products because it will make Apple look bad isn't exactly a good way to get your point across lol.

The past 20 years of computing have been something the world has never really seen before. The "information age" or computing age is as pivotal and influential as the industrial age was over 150 years ago, if not more. We're still basically starting out, and how thing transform is anyone's guess. What we have today is an emerging of smaller companies in fields that were once dominated. Take VIA for example. This small company bought their x86 license, and they have started down the path of becoming an influential cpu maker. Their Nano chip can be found in Samsung's N20 and has been received with great reviews. Dell even announced a VIA server running like 12 nano's or something, all required a quarter of the power as a comparable AMD server. In the operating system side, Google's android should be picking up speed here in the next 5 years or so, and there's even rumors that Palm's WebOS can be turned into a full fledged computer OS, not to mention the widely applauded ubuntu OS. Nvidia seems to be getting backed into a corner with their ion platform when trying to compete against Intel, and the idea that in retaliation they could create their own CPU that isn't based on x86 instruction set architecture is being bounced around a bit. Right now Intel is selling their Atom processors to OEMs for $45 while they sell the Atom+945chipset for $25 dollars. This is making OEM's want to turn away from Nvidia's ion chipset which like the 945 chipset also relies on Intel's Atom cpu.

Anyways, the argument you're making is that the big bad Microsoft corporation has been running a cut throat operation for years and so we should all stop buying their product, but they kind of have a lot of people by the balls right now. Mark my words, 10 years from now, companies like Intel and Microsoft will be hurting as they desperately try to compete against companies they pissed off in the past. These companies will take a hold of the market on their own accord. Change will come, but it will come slow. Right now your hero Apple is not the solution for MANY people. For instance, they aren't offering any solution to system builders for a choice in OS.

Do you slightly better understand the world you live in now?
post #143 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by surferfromuk View Post

BUT 90% of the world HAS been conned....

Microsoft didn't start this. Case in point: Religion.
post #144 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy01 View Post

You really have to be an ignorant low class idiot to be a Windows user/deliberate PC buyer. There is no other way to put it. MS bet that 90% of the world population are imbeciles. Turns out they were right. Apple doesn't have to rule the world. We don't want that trash anyhow...MS can KEEP IT.

I agree with you, but your numbers are off. The reality appears to be more like 98%.
post #145 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoder54 View Post

I agree with you, but your numbers are off. The reality appears to be more like 98%.

7 posts since February of 2008, two of them I can confirm are completely ill-thought trollish comments. Guess who takes a spot next to Jimmy01 on my ignore list? It doesn't matter too much I suppose since you don't post very often anyways, but it's always good to weed out people like you from a discussion.
post #146 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Could you at least try to be a good troll? Apple isn't directly competing with Microsoft. They are competing with the likes of HP, Dell, Acer, etc and they all happen to use Windows (not due to its superiority, but due to a lack of other options as Apple doesn't license its OS out). Given the limited number of computer models Apple produces, they do quite well compared to HP or anyone else. Individual mac computers are always at or near the top in total #'s sold on a model by model basis.

Apple could increase market share by producing more computer models (for example, a traditional desktop) but the more models they produce, the less time they can spend on each model and build quality and the overall level of system wide integration would diminish. Personally, I am quite happy to pay more for a better computer (there is more to a computer than processor speed, ram and hard drive size), and if their market share stays low because they focus on making a few good PC's instead of a bunch of crap ones, I'm fine with that.


Correct - Always consider the quality and availability of technical support when considering a Mac or a PC (Dell, HP, Acer, etc). I will pay more for more reliable hardware and for better customer service. I just hope that Apple does not get lazy.
post #147 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourgoises Pig View Post

Correct - Always consider the quality and availability of technical support when considering a Mac or a PC (Dell, HP, Acer, etc). I will pay more for more reliable hardware and for better customer service. I just hope that Apple does not get lazy.

I guess I take this for granted. I'm not saying I'm the grand know it all of all things computer, but I can honestly say I've never once used customer service to address issues I had with any computer. Come to think of it, good search is my customer service lol :P
post #148 of 179
The ads are targeting a soft spot for every consumer, their wallet. How often do I read comments from self-proclaimed Apple fanbois suggesting that Apple reduce prices? Everyone wants to get more and pay less, it's simple human nature.

To the general public computers are complex so they look for simple ways to compare them: now that PC makers have stopped advertising processor speeds they essentially have 3 numbers to look at: price, RAM and HD. Everything else requires more thought and so is generally ignored.

For the most part Macs cost more, come with less RAM and smaller HD. To the uninformed that situation simply doesn't make sense and so the Mac is rejected without giving it a chance. Others reject the Mac on price alone. It's been possible to buy a PC system for under $1000 for most of the last decade so anything with a 4 digit price is simply too expensive to consider, regardless of how much better it may be.

I'm surprised that M$ is lying in the laptop hunter commercials. It would be easy for them to tell the same story and get the same results with more fair comparisons. We all know Macs cost more, but those of us who frequent sites like this one know you usually get what you pay for.

Personally I think the most effective ads of all are the ones with the little kids using Windows apps to edit and email photos, create slide shows with music and other such things. Those directly and very effectively target Apple's perceived ease of use. They show Windows in a positive light and do not undermine the message by mentioning any competitor.
post #149 of 179
I heard two people on the train today, the girl said "hey look at how cool my new laptop is!" the lad said "is it a macbook air they're cool?" she said "no i dont know how to use them" and produced a purple dell.

the problem is, people whove switched may like the mac better but most people are too ignorant to even try something 'unfamilair" apple ought to put far more effort/money into promoting OS X rather than specific computers
post #150 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post

Your thoughts are all over the place. I understand what you're trying to say, but the ironic thing is you're telling people to understand the world they live in when it's clear you don't quite understand it. Saying that stupid people shouldn't buy Apple's products because it will make Apple look bad isn't exactly a good way to get your point across lol.

The past 20 years of computing have been something the world has never really seen before. The "information age" or computing age is as pivotal and influential as the industrial age was over 150 years ago, if not more. We're still basically starting out, and how thing transform is anyone's guess. What we have today is an emerging of smaller companies in fields that were once dominated. Take VIA for example. This small company bought their x86 license, and they have started down the path of becoming an influential cpu maker. Their Nano chip can be found in Samsung's N20 and has been received with great reviews. Dell even announced a VIA server running like 12 nano's or something, all required a quarter of the power as a comparable AMD server. In the operating system side, Google's android should be picking up speed here in the next 5 years or so, and there's even rumors that Palm's WebOS can be turned into a full fledged computer OS, not to mention the widely applauded ubuntu OS. Nvidia seems to be getting backed into a corner with their ion platform when trying to compete against Intel, and the idea that in retaliation they could create their own CPU that isn't based on x86 instruction set architecture is being bounced around a bit. Right now Intel is selling their Atom processors to OEMs for $45 while they sell the Atom+945chipset for $25 dollars. This is making OEM's want to turn away from Nvidia's ion chipset which like the 945 chipset also relies on Intel's Atom cpu.

Anyways, the argument you're making is that the big bad Microsoft corporation has been running a cut throat operation for years and so we should all stop buying their product, but they kind of have a lot of people by the balls right now. Mark my words, 10 years from now, companies like Intel and Microsoft will be hurting as they desperately try to compete against companies they pissed off in the past. These companies will take a hold of the market on their own accord. Change will come, but it will come slow. Right now your hero Apple is not the solution for MANY people. For instance, they aren't offering any solution to system builders for a choice in OS.

Do you slightly better understand the world you live in now?

No, I don't, but I see where your coming from.

Mainly, I don't understand why competition in a capitalist context leads to the market dominator creating cheaper and invariably inferior products- this cheaper downward cycle often sucks in the competition in order to survive. Don't get me wrong, I understand HOW that happens, but not why we allow it ( not that communism or socialism has historically delivered any significant advance in this scenario).

I do admit I put my faith that a company like Apple represents a place where gifted idealistic people who want to CHOOSE to work and in some way improve the world can exist. I like the things Apple says it stands for and that people would choose to apply their talent that way. I do understand in this sense that the rich have easier access to this superior technology, even if MS want to convince the world that they really don't. I also understand why Apple don't dwell on market share the way we might.

If Bill Gates' Microsoft was ever a visionary company of equal idealistic intent then it certainly lost it's way during the 90's when it became determined to win at all costs...in fact, didn't it's origins involve cloak and dagger? Nothing MS does today suggest to me that any of that ruthlessness has been replaced by idealism...

You see this is one of the endearing things about Apple - they don't want to win the world - they just want to be the best, and that is really a very different thing to Microsoft and that's why I react to their lies so much because I know they are compelling and convincing to most people who really don't care too much about the details, and that there products really are just about 'good enough' and so when people choose then they lose, and in doing so we all lose a little...

Imagine a world where Apple was 90% and some other company HAD to be better than Apple to be the 10%....I'd be rooting for that 10% company again, wouldn't you?
post #151 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by manfrommars View Post

I'm not a PC fan but I'm thrilled that Microsoft is keeping Apple on its toes.

Competition is good for Apple and it forces them to constantly strive to protect their market share by impressing their consumer base with better hardware and better software.

In short, Apple has to work harder for us. That's not bad.

Bingo! You get it!

I'm of the opinion that if this forces Apple to lower their prices the one who wins is us.

That being said my main computer is a mac and I love my little Linpus Acer Net Book SSD.
post #152 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by surferfromuk View Post

Imagine a world where Apple was 90% and some other company HAD to be better than Apple to be the 10%....I'd be rooting for that 10% company again, wouldn't you?

I'll always root for the company with 10% share in a situation like that, even if I'm completely content with what the holder of the 90% offers. I'm that way because I know competition drives innovation. That's why technology always gets a good boost from wars.

The fact remains, associating buying anything from Microsoft with low intelligence is silly. Take a netbook for example. I'm going to buy an 8.9" asus netbook for general F'ing around while camping or on the road. It runs XP, and I'm perfectly fine with that. To me, Windows is just a familiar, and sometimes necessary utility that allows me to get the most functionality from a non-Apple computer.

When you look at global warming, it's easy to call everyone stupid for driving vehicles that emit pollution proven to have adverse effects, all in a time where the earth is heating up, right? Our kid's grand kids might look back and group everyone into a moronic general group, blaming whatever issues the earth is having on our era. They could say things like "Those morons all saw that oil companies were greedy crooks who didn't care about the planet and they still bought gas guzzling vehicles." It's kind of the same thing here with Windows (without such adverse effects lol.)
post #153 of 179
check the return rate --but they won't tell you that
my nephew returned 3 laptops to bestbuy for non function (he's a moderate gamer)

that will then show them that cheap isn't the only decision issue

gee all this and vista too!!!
buyers remorse
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #154 of 179
Why is there so much MS hate?

And why do I always find myself defending Windows?

I prefer OS X, obviously, but I admit I live in a dual OS household. Windows has better gaming. Period. I'm not a hardcore gamer, but do play GTA IV, I use the ChaosLauncher for StarCraft and use BWChart to analyze my play, and I often use Hamachi to play friends over VPN, which has shoddy performance on OS X.

That being said, while I don't enjoy having my time split amongst two OSes, I can't say that I *hate* Windows. I mean, let's take a look at the facts. Windows XP is very stable, very fast, and can do just about anything you'd want it to. It takes a true moron to contract a virus under XP, despite its reputation. In all my years of using XP, I'd estimate I've had three virii serious enough to warrant a clean wipe and they were all my fault. Compare that with OS X's zero virii and of course we have a clear winner, but would I say that XP is painful and inconvenient to use? Not at all.

While I'm not as forgiving about Vista, I'll agree with the consensus that most of the serious issues have been ironed out. Those who've been using Windows for the past 10 years will recall the travesty of Windows ME, a product that was over-hyped, succumbed to feature-creep, launched late, and bombed. Sound familiar?

But ME was followed by XP (really just a ME mark 2) and was a considerable success. Windows 7, likewise, is Vista mark 2 and I have confidence that it, too, will be a considerable success as compared to its immediate predecessor.

While I'm not going to sit here and be a MS apologist, I seriously question the zealous hatred of everything they produce as most on these forums do. The overall superiority of OS X is obvious, especially to us Mac users, but to regard Windows 7 as an auto-fail is just plain stupid, wrong, and naive, frankly.

-Clive
My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
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My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
Reply
post #155 of 179
MS hate???
what i hate is all the time and effort i had to "invest" in fixing their problems, when apple does my family right, its my choice
MS to me has been a huge productivity sink hole, where for hours i can't get anything done
oh yea tired of losing data and rebooting, when you lose major presentations and files because it "works good enough" you fight the tyranny and apple fits that bill till it doesn't
power to the individual
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #156 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by surferfromuk View Post

Don't get me wrong, I know Apple's not perfect - heck a long way from it, but they at least hold aspirations towards this elusive thing called quality...at least they have a 'dream' I can believe in and act accordingly...

Apple's dream is the same as any other corporation's dream - make a lot of money for board and stockholders.

And Apple believes the best way is to fulfil that dream is through building strong image, centralized control, vertical integration, perceived quality (and accordingly high margins).

nothing wrong with that business method, but your post sounds as if Apple's target is creating better world; no it's not. Except for their owners
post #157 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Why is there so much MS hate?

And why do I always find myself defending Windows?

I prefer OS X, obviously, but I admit I live in a dual OS household. Windows has better gaming. Period. I'm not a hardcore gamer, but do play GTA IV, I use the ChaosLauncher for StarCraft and use BWChart to analyze my play, and I often use Hamachi to play friends over VPN, which has shoddy performance on OS X.

That being said, while I don't enjoy having my time split amongst two OSes, I can't say that I *hate* Windows. I mean, let's take a look at the facts. Windows XP is very stable, very fast, and can do just about anything you'd want it to. It takes a true moron to contract a virus under XP, despite its reputation. In all my years of using XP, I'd estimate I've had three virii serious enough to warrant a clean wipe and they were all my fault. Compare that with OS X's zero virii and of course we have a clear winner, but would I say that XP is painful and inconvenient to use? Not at all.

While I'm not as forgiving about Vista, I'll agree with the consensus that most of the serious issues have been ironed out. Those who've been using Windows for the past 10 years will recall the travesty of Windows ME, a product that was over-hyped, succumbed to feature-creep, launched late, and bombed. Sound familiar?

But ME was followed by XP (really just a ME mark 2) and was a considerable success. Windows 7, likewise, is Vista mark 2 and I have confidence that it, too, will be a considerable success as compared to its immediate predecessor.

While I'm not going to sit here and be a MS apologist, I seriously question the zealous hatred of everything they produce as most on these forums do. The overall superiority of OS X is obvious, especially to us Mac users, but to regard Windows 7 as an auto-fail is just plain stupid, wrong, and naive, frankly.

-Clive

Great post. Bravo!

Only thing I don't agree with is, XP is more like Windows 2000 mark 2. True it was designed for home users too (while 2000 was primarily targeting businesses) so in a way you can link it to Me, but technically - much as I remember - XP was built on Windows 2000 (not unlike 7 based on Vista) with improved compatibility, multimedia features and more modern GUI.

Which is pretty much what is being promised (among the other things) for Windows 7, compared to Vista - better compatibility, better GUI.
post #158 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourgoises Pig View Post

Correct - Always consider the quality and availability of technical support when considering a Mac or a PC (Dell, HP, Acer, etc). I will pay more for more reliable hardware and for better customer service. I just hope that Apple does not get lazy.

Last numbers I've seen here on AI were showing that Macs are breaking down as often as any other brand, on average.
post #159 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Apple's dream is the same as any other corporation's dream - make a lot of money for board and stockholders.

And Apple believes the best way is to fulfil that dream is through building strong image, centralized control, vertical integration, perceived quality (and accordingly high margins).

nothing wrong with that business method, but your post sounds as if Apple's target is creating better world; no it's not. Except for their owners

True, but you gotta start somewhere...not that it's make any difference.

but that said...there does appear to be a massive rise over the last year in the amount of bloggers and forum posters who seem intent on convincing me ( apple fanboy I admit) that MS are not the bad guys, that 'windows 7 really is good' and that Apple aren't as peachy as I would like to think they are (which narcs me no end cos I have a great Apple experience)

It just get's seriously tedious cos really I don't give a shit about MS or their products but I find people endlessly stuffing this crap down APPLE forums. I mean I have NEVER once EVER been on a MS forum and wacked off about how great Apple is...but for some reason MS sympathizers feel the need to litter every Apple forum with pro-MS 'contra' point of view...I really don't need it...In many ways I'd prefer Apple sites not to list these Microsoft articles..but I guess they are good for ratings...

Again, it just seems to me that a bad smell follows anything MS related - where-ever it goes - and that's even in Apple forums...
post #160 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by surferfromuk View Post

True, but you gotta start somewhere...not that it's make any difference.

but that said...there does appear to be a massive rise over the last year in the amount of bloggers and forum posters who seem intent on convincing me ( apple fanboy I admit) that MS are not the bad guys, that 'windows 7 really is good' and that Apple aren't as peachy as I would like to think they are (which narcs me no end cos I have a great Apple experience)

just like the massive rise in blogs about Apple products proclaiming their perfection, which narcs me no end becuase I have had bad (and good) experiences with apple...


Quote:
It just get's seriously tedious cos really I don't give a shit about MS or their products but I find people endlessly stuffing this crap down APPLE forums. I mean I have NEVER once EVER been on a MS forum and wacked off about how great Apple is...but for some reason MS sympathizers feel the need to litter every Apple forum with pro-MS 'contra' point of view...I really don't need it...In many ways I'd prefer Apple sites not to list these Microsoft articles..but I guess they are good for ratings...

Becuase appleinsider 1) likes the post count to increase their advertising 2) feels the need
to 'defend' apple against the horrible horrible MSrs, or 3) both

Quote:
Again, it just seems to me that a bad smell follows anything MS related - where-ever it goes - and that's even in Apple forums...

Like the pungent smell of excrement that lingers after a "get a mac" commercial
Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
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Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
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