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post #201 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You're right of course, it's both. I just meant that it's where the problem started.

I used to be a Republican. I voted for Nixon twice (the first time I was old enough to vote!). I voted for Carter, because I wanted to get us away from the problems. But I then voted for Reagan twice. Not because I agreed with his conservative views on everything, but because he was the man for the times. I voted for Bush senior, because he was a moderate to left leaning individual (his campaign coined "Voodoo Economics".

But he badly disappointed me by moving to the right of Reagan on a number of issues. I voted for Clinton twice, though I wasn't too sure of him when he first ran. I voted for Gore, and then Kerry. Both of whom should have won, so that was disappointing to say the least!

I last voted for Obama.

So it can be seen where my beliefs have moved over the years.

But really, it's not me that has changed that much, though I've moved some. It's the parties that have changed more.

The Republicans used to be known as the Rockefeller party. That is, center all the way. The democrats were still the Roosevelt party, left of center.

That's changed.

Now Conservatives rule the Republican party with an iron fist along with the Religious Right. At the same time, Democrats have moved to center. A lot of democrats are what we would have called the Rockefeller Republicans 40 years ago, and Rockeller Republicans are now considered to be leftists by Conservatives.

Even Obama isn't much off center, though Conservatives attempt to paint him as a Leftist.

If Obama is leftist, then Eisenhower was also.

I'm amazed at how some people don't understand what's going on around them, but make pronouncements as though they do.

Perhaps living through all those times, and being politically and socially active helps to allow us to see things more clearly.

I'm a pragmatist, I don't hew to any ideology. I'm much more interested in what works.

The reason why I regaled you with all that was simply to show that unlike what one or two here think, I've got no axe to grind overall. Also because I've seen this unfold over the years, rather than just thinking I know what happened.

It all started with Reagan. His line about regulation was to let the agencies in his words "wither away". He felt that business people knew how to make money and run large enterprises, so what would make more sense that to let them run government as well?

He started the deregulation of the banking industry which led to the biggest banking scandals and collapse since the Depression. He closed down the research into alternative energy and oil shale that Carter had put into place after the oil embargo.

Bush didn't do too much.

Clinton was hampered by the vicious publicity over the attempt to get national healthcare pushed through, something that now, even Conservatives are working for, and lost his majorities in Congress shortly after. He was working crippled for that last 6 years in office.

Nevertheless, both he, and Congress managed to get us out of the major deficits that Reagan got us into with his failed "trickle down" policies.

Of course, Bush just let everything go to pot (and not in a good way.).

He almost destroyed the various agencies with political appointments that were intended to bring them down. He cut spending in regulatory areas significantly. He ignored warnings about banking, mortgages, health issues, global warming, and just about everything that didn't meet his quasi-religious/conservitive agenda.

Phil Gramm, back in 2001, or so, pushed through a bill to prevent the regulation of derivatives. His wife Wendy, pushed another one through that prevented regulating Hedge funds. Two of the major causes of the present problems.

It's a good thing McCain wasn't elected, because his main economic advisor was PHd in Economics Phil (Americans are just a bunch of whiners) Gramm (one shining example of why I think so little of economists in general).

None of this would have happened in the earlier days.

Agreed to all of the above.
post #202 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You're right of course, it's both. I just meant that it's where the problem started.

I used to be a Republican. I voted for Nixon twice (the first time I was old enough to vote!). I voted for Carter, because I wanted to get us away from the problems. But I then voted for Reagan twice. Not because I agreed with his conservative views on everything, but because he was the man for the times. I voted for Bush senior, because he was a moderate to left leaning individual (his campaign coined "Voodoo Economics".

But he badly disappointed me by moving to the right of Reagan on a number of issues. I voted for Clinton twice, though I wasn't too sure of him when he first ran. I voted for Gore, and then Kerry. Both of whom should have won, so that was disappointing to say the least!

I last voted for Obama.

So it can be seen where my beliefs have moved over the years.

But really, it's not me that has changed that much, though I've moved some. It's the parties that have changed more.

The Republicans used to be known as the Rockefeller party. That is, center all the way. The democrats were still the Roosevelt party, left of center.

That's changed.

Now Conservatives rule the Republican party with an iron fist along with the Religious Right. At the same time, Democrats have moved to center. A lot of democrats are what we would have called the Rockefeller Republicans 40 years ago, and Rockeller Republicans are now considered to be leftists by Conservatives.

Even Obama isn't much off center, though Conservatives attempt to paint him as a Leftist.

If Obama is leftist, then Eisenhower was also.

I'm amazed at how some people don't understand what's going on around them, but make pronouncements as though they do.

Perhaps living through all those times, and being politically and socially active helps to allow us to see things more clearly.

I'm a pragmatist, I don't hew to any ideology. I'm much more interested in what works.

The reason why I regaled you with all that was simply to show that unlike what one or two here think, I've got no axe to grind overall. Also because I've seen this unfold over the years, rather than just thinking I know what happened.

It all started with Reagan. His line about regulation was to let the agencies in his words "wither away". He felt that business people knew how to make money and run large enterprises, so what would make more sense that to let them run government as well?

He started the deregulation of the banking industry which led to the biggest banking scandals and collapse since the Depression. He closed down the research into alternative energy and oil shale that Carter had put into place after the oil embargo.

Bush didn't do too much.

Clinton was hampered by the vicious publicity over the attempt to get national healthcare pushed through, something that now, even Conservatives are working for, and lost his majorities in Congress shortly after. He was working crippled for that last 6 years in office.

Nevertheless, both he, and Congress managed to get us out of the major deficits that Reagan got us into with his failed "trickle down" policies.

Of course, Bush just let everything go to pot (and not in a good way.).

He almost destroyed the various agencies with political appointments that were intended to bring them down. He cut spending in regulatory areas significantly. He ignored warnings about banking, mortgages, health issues, global warming, and just about everything that didn't meet his quasi-religious/conservitive agenda.

Phil Gramm, back in 2001, or so, pushed through a bill to prevent the regulation of derivatives. His wife Wendy, pushed another one through that prevented regulating Hedge funds. Two of the major causes of the present problems.

It's a good thing McCain wasn't elected, because his main economic advisor was PHd in Economics Phil (Americans are just a bunch of whiners) Gramm (one shining example of why I think so little of economists in general).

None of this would have happened in the earlier days.

bwahahahaha, obama's not a leftist? you voted for gore AND kerry?! i'm no fan of republicans these days either but, man, you need some professional help. i hate to break it to you but the government screws up everything it touches. they're all in the pockets of special interests. why anyone would vote to give them more power is beyond me. btw it was the democrats, in the pockets of the financial institutions, that guaranteed the 'sub-prime' loans, which gave them the incentive to give out loans to anything with a pulse.
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