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Apple said building $1 billion server farm - Page 2

post #41 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johhny Motel View Post

Doesn't Apple already have a big data centre in CA from 2006. It was an article here on Ai, there were Google earth pixs and stuff. Guess they must have filled that one already!!

i just saw the new MS sever location.17 acres .550 million
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post #42 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by skittlebrau79 View Post

The government isn't running any part of the banks or the car companies. If they were, maybe we would have banks that actually lent money instead of horded it.

The government is buying GM...didn't you get the memo? I guess when you own something you aren't running any part of it...right?
post #43 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptysell View Post




The same Al Gore that flies coast to coast on his private jet? The same Al Gore that has made hundreds of millions of dollars off scaring people? The same Al Gore that has publicly stated he intends to become the first "green billionaire"? Sounds like his intentions are really the environment and not making money off of it.
...
I guess you didn't get the memo but the state of California is bankrupt. California has on of the highest tax burdens in the country. The tax base that has traditionally bear the majority of the tax burden in the state are moving out of the state. ...

You should at least try to disguise your Rush talking points.
No one's leaving California... unfortunately. Its a mess, but that's because of Prop 13 that pretty well gutted public services (as it was intended to do.) Add to that the moronic '3 strikes' laws that keep the prisons overflowing and rolling in $$$, and you have the key to the problem.

BTW, California is about 13th in tax levels. Nice try.

Go back to your right wing AM radio.
post #44 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

why does the server farm cost 1 billion dollars ???

They'll be building them with Xserves and Mac OS X. It would only cost a fraction of that with Dell hardware and Linux.

At least we know where they are putting their savings. Instead of buying up companies here and there, they are buying the whole internet. Google ads will all be links to Apple products, links to Microsoft will all end up with 404 errors.

They could do a number of things with an expensive farm. Given that system spec on the Mac side is typically low, they could offer a service like this:

http://www.onlive.com/

that would stream even the latest high end games to Apple's lower end devices. Assuming they used Mac Pros instead of Xserves with 8GB Ram and 4 x GT 120. That's $3000 to buy but would be much less for Apple - say $2000.

With half of the $1b budget on hardware, that's 250,000 servers with 4 GPUs each with centers in every state to maintain low latency and $10m to build each center. That could mean 1 million simultaneous games of Crysis streaming to Apple TVs and tablets. Only for America though.

No more system requirements for Apple products for games besides a fast enough internet connection. No more waiting for game ports. No more games piracy. Interesting that one of the people who developed the 1 millisecond compression software was a former Quicktime developer:

http://kotaku.com/5181300/onlive-mak...sis-on-your-tv

If Apple are streaming HD movies to their ATVs, they can stream games content too.
post #45 of 202
skittlebrau79 brilliant post! love how it offests the brain drain the forum has had recently THANK YOU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

At least we know where they are putting their savings. Instead of buying up companies here and there, they are buying the whole internet. Google ads will all be links to Apple products, links to Microsoft will all end up with 404 errors.

for a moment there I thought you were saying that like it was a bad thing!


RE all the cries of "where will all the money go?"

the artical states "over ten years" whats the cost of running the building and paying employees for ten years, oh yeah and ONE MORE THING do you think Apple will upgrade the servers at least ONCE during the ten years? how much will THAT cost?


Love the idea of a game server though
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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post #46 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

I'd rather see a state give Apple a $1 Billion tax break to bring its assembly plants back to the US. Then we will put people permanently back to work. The construction to build this thing is only temporary. If you're going to give someone a $1 Billion tax break it better damn well be a permanent thing and not a 6-8 month thing.



Man, I totally agree. It would be nice to have it say 'Apple, California' and also 'Made in the USA' on the same box!
post #47 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

They'll be building them with Xserves and Mac OS X. It would only cost a fraction of that with Dell hardware and Linux.

At least we know where they are putting their savings. Instead of buying up companies here and there, they are buying the whole internet. Google ads will all be links to Apple products, links to Microsoft will all end up with 404 errors.

They could do a number of things with an expensive farm. Given that system spec on the Mac side is typically low, they could offer a service like this:

http://www.onlive.com/

that would stream even the latest high end games to Apple's lower end devices. Assuming they used Mac Pros instead of Xserves with 8GB Ram and 4 x GT 120. That's $3000 to buy but would be much less for Apple - say $2000.

With half of the $1b budget on hardware, that's 250,000 servers with 4 GPUs each with centers in every state to maintain low latency and $10m to build each center. That could mean 1 million simultaneous games of Crysis streaming to Apple TVs and tablets. Only for America though.

No more system requirements for Apple products for games besides a fast enough internet connection. No more waiting for game ports. No more games piracy. Interesting that one of the people who developed the 1 millisecond compression software was a former Quicktime developer:

http://kotaku.com/5181300/onlive-mak...sis-on-your-tv

If Apple are streaming HD movies to their ATVs, they can stream games content too.

wow 100x
Thank you for the cool link .
this is what apple needs to do with its money
mega bandwidth
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post #48 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

If you want to see the areas with double digit UNemployment check this map.

AP Economic Stress Map

And considering the location of Apple's server farm, while it would make sense to build in an area that needs employment it is not the primary concern. Reliable power is very important to server farms. Google built one in Oregon in a somewhat remote location because is had easy access to hydroelectric power which is very reliable compared to most other sources. Of course parts North Carolina are on TVA power which also has many hydro plants. Wonder if that is a consideration with Apple?

Sounds like a good reason WelshDog.
I also wonder the NC location is closer to major backbone of the network.
I've heard a rumor that Apple should go into content service biz.
TV, cable shows, movie streaming and of course MobileMe server hosting which would give it a
boost from current slow-to-death speed.
Hey Steve, hang tough and bring iPhones to Korea this year, pls~
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post #49 of 202
Great site for a Server Farm? "North Carolina has a long and notorious history of destruction by hurricanes. Ever since the first expeditions to Roanoke Island in 1586, hurricanes are ..." http://www.nc-climate.ncsu.edu/climate/hurricane.php
post #50 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

My point is, small businesses around the world are not going to buy the MacPro to run their companies. We, small businesses, are turning to platform independent solutions that require an internet connection and browser. The world of business is changing and maybe Apple is getting ready to have an Apple Doc's type setup like Google does. If they made the right move, we would move our intranet and internal operations like email, calendar, scheduling, document sharing within our domain, etc. to Apple in two heart beats.

Dont forget that Apple still makes most of their money from their HW sales, SW and services are there to sell more HW. Until Apple decided to make a business class machine they will not be able to get into most businesses in a profound way. Even with executives getting company Mac notebooks they are still very low compared to all other notebooks and desktops and servers in a companies budget.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post

No one said anything about a $1B tax break.

Even so, if Apple made an assembly plant in the US it will be fully automated just like NeXT's and will probably only employ 100 people, if not less.

That said, I want Apple to bring back manufacturing to the US, even if only for their highend high margin products like the Mac Pro and XServe.

He did correct that in a later posting, but he should make a correction in his post.

The idea of bringing industry back to the US would be nice. Id pay a premium for it, but I wonder how much more would it be to make the final assembly here in the US once the automation is set up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

wow
really
what does one billion dollars buy
its just a farm .
for servers
and the price of everything has fallen .

this seems like a monster place .i wonder how many servers it takes to run all those billion dollar s of servers and would you need a few more servers to runthose servers ?? or wouild a g3 imac do the job ??

i guess itunes just got powerful
orange

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow what wow wow wow wow wow A wow wow
GREAT site .. I MEAN WOW !!!

WAS that crysis ??? playing on the ad ???

i may ever sleep again
wow wow wow wow

weeeeeeeeee

damn not good
i have a job and house and wife
i would never stop playing games

thank you for the link
and i billion is cheap for what we get
apple should double it two 2.5 billion rght now

You say you are in your 50s and that you are trying to post more intelligently, but none of that seems evidence. Why post wow 2 dozen times and write the word weeeeeeee by itself, not to mention the rest of your posts? Why cant you use capitalization and punctuation? Its impossible to believe that you are the age you said you were in a previous post. You sound more like 9yo, and that is not an exaggerated comment. Do you honestly think that your posts are link the others on this thread? If you have a medical condition that somehow makes you write like youre on a Ritalin withdrawal then me know and Ill back off. If not please try to write like a sane adult.
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post #51 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptysell View Post

Wonder why Apple wouldn't do this project closer to home in California?

Why? One word answer ... "earthquake"

Better to have their systems duplicated/ expanded in a different location just in case.
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #52 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruiteatingbear View Post

Great site for a Server Farm? "North Carolina has a long and notorious history of destruction by hurricanes. Ever since the first expeditions to Roanoke Island in 1586, hurricanes are ..." http://www.nc-climate.ncsu.edu/climate/hurricane.php

True but they will build to be fairly well H proof I expect and these days where isn't a potentially dangerous location? It's better to spread away from one place i.e. CA at least.

This is a good use of some of Apple's $s too. Invest in their own infrastructure ... Yes they can!
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
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post #53 of 202
An Apple Server Farm: Great Idea

If the rumor is correct, it wouldn't be a surprise that such a structure would be needed to accommodate Apple's Push Notification System. Right now, Apple is one company that should be well be to afford it. http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2009...-afford-it.ars

Another possibility for such facilities would be for backing up. Certainly with the recent demise of a number of such companies closing down, and more to come, we need more reliable sources from which to draw.
post #54 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

It is because your NC's economy is based on tourism. I'm next door to you and I know your pain. Let's hope Apple makes the move because I know the volunteer state would.

I lived in NC for 35 years and the only areas relying on tourism $$ are the mountains and beaches. The state, as a whole, has been in a flux for the last 15+ years, as its workforce has changed from manufacturing and tobacco to the service and technology sector. It has been quite painful to watch the transition. This "incentives" mess is a joke though. Read up on what it took to get Dell to NC, and read what happened less than three years after they opened up there (200+ layoffs). It is a complete joke with clown shoes!! The only real solid employment opportunities are in the Raleigh/Research Triangle area. There is a lot of potential there, if and when the economy picks back up.
post #55 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Don’t forget that Apple still makes most of their money from their HW sales, SW and services are there to sell more HW. Until Apple decided to make a business class machine they will not be able to get into most businesses in a profound way. Even with executives getting company Mac notebooks they are still very low compared to all other notebooks and desktops and servers in a companies budget.



He did correct that in a later posting, but he should make a correction in his post.

The idea of bringing industry back to the US would be nice. I’d pay a premium for it, but I wonder how much more would it be to make the final assembly here in the US once the automation is set up.



You say you are in your 50’s and that you are trying to post more intelligently, but none of that seems evidence. Why post ‘wow’ 2 dozen times and write the word ‘weenie’ by itself, not to mention the rest of your posts? Why can’t you use capitalization and punctuation? It’s impossible to believe that you are the age you said you were in a previous post. You sound more like 9yr, and that is not an exaggerated comment. Do you honestly think that your posts are link the others on this thread? If you have a medical condition that somehow makes you write like you’re on a Ritalin withdrawal then me know and I’ll back off. If not please try to write like a sane adult.

My first thought was too slam you bad, But then I thought that is how your kind creates the teckspud kind .I went and fixed my last two offensive posts. Yes, they were poor. It was late, I was sloppy and the new gaming site really rocks . And I do change them because to a point ,I do want to fit in. And I would never want to upset anyone here ,for any reason. Even bill gates would get a hug from me .

My writing is a bit dis-jointed .No matter how much I try to be normal like you. You will have to accept it dude .
As for 9 yr. old crack Hmm I am not the one to post 9 times a day here for 3 yrs. And what is worse is that you have gained no wisdom from your incredible high post count. Have you become bitter ?
I come here to post about apple. I may make a friend. I will not flame or troll with you dude. So last warning. Feel free comment on my posts .Thats your right. But speak to me a nice way. BUT STOP THE NASTY cracks. I should be on your ignore list since you dislike me so much, anyway .

I am writer by the way of sorts. some print and TV ads have used my lines or blurbs, I also in some PF forums write odd kinda of poetry that other members have put to music. maybe i am a little syd barret like in my writing/thinking style .<<not his genius of course >> i say all this above to let you know i am aware of your feelings . and you are not the first to deride me .yet some have found something they like in my <<think different style >>



again be my buddy or put me on your teckspud list

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And since it's ok to go so far off topic here . Apple loses a ton of sales because the top games crash on most mac machines . Even on low settings . To put it all on a cloud as someone here just said . Wow .
To play crysis on my black mac 13 in would rock . To choose between every game ever made on any platform and play those games full force on any device .wow
and it can happen if ....../ apple can light all those thousand of miles of dark fiber optic lines . and have a bunch of billion dollar class of server farms .if they can do all this . then they would have the bandwidth to insure an incredible cloud gaming/other stuff. and if you add google's amount with apple's then cloud would stream endless . i guess hulu would be available planet wide

Apple should build some wind farms geo farms solar farm to power these server farms .

c


Does anyone know how large the gaming community really is ?? And how large could they grow into ?

peace

9
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post #56 of 202
And remember, Steve and company are looking 10 + years out, so think long term?

Is this the first, or second of several server farms, and if so, why?

Is Apple going to get into telecommunications by buying out someone, merging with someone?

Does the long awaited for "New" Apple product have something to do with this?

What DOES Apple / Steve Jobs know about their future that we don't know?

Is Apple laying out the foundation for the new American Mega company?

Apple / Steve Jobs if nothing else, IS a company that has folks thinking and wondering about what they are up to - all the time

Skip
post #57 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Well the building costs money to build too.

Expensive of course, Steve has to put a glass staircase in it doesn't he?
post #58 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Fred 1 View Post

Expensive of course, Steve has to put a glass staircase in it doesn't he?

I now believe the server farm is exclusively intended to provide 3d architectural rendering power for the design of Steve's new house.
post #59 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by skittlebrau79 View Post

Prove it. According to federal sources summed up @ http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08230/904931-109.stm, California has the 6th highest tax burden of any state, when measured as a percentage of GDP.

Most people and companies don't measure their liabilities against a state GDP figure. Additionally, that was for 2008. As of May 1st, taxes went up substantially in certain areas. The May 19th vote would've increased them even further were they not smacked down by the votes 2:1. Just because you're not the worst doesn't mean you're doing good. The other states above California as of 2008 are all in trouble as well. If you read the fine print on the article, it's an 'advanced estimate' amalgam by certain groups. Most of us in California know we've slid into a mess over the years with overtaxing people and businesses. How to get out is now playing out. May 19th was the first genuine volley long in coming. Economics is a cold beast.
post #60 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

I just can't see how giving Apple a $1 Billion tax incentive to hire less than 100 people is helping anything.

But I guess the money Apple would have to invest in this would make up for it.

The way I read the article Apple is only getting 46 million deferred for an investment of a billion. That's just like Carolina saying Apple can invest the billion and get the taxes back on it isn't it? In exchange for the jobs and in cognisance of the fact that this thing can only grow. Sounds fair to me.
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post #61 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie View Post

Man, I totally agree. It would be nice to have it say 'Apple, California' and also 'Made in the USA' on the same box!

I think it's funny how Americans always go on about how things "aren't made in the USA anymore" and what a shame it is, but the only reason it's true is because USA workers don't want to really work and won't accept the same wages that others will accept in other countries.

It's not rocket science. If USA workers actually wanted to work hard for their money or pay a fair price for quality manufactured stuff, everything could be made in the USA. As long as the majority of the population is lazy, overpaid and addicted to cheap asian knockoffs of their own brands, the situation will pretty much continue as it is.
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post #62 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

Regarding Apple's potential tax break in North Carolina: Taxes should be the same in every state and there should be no tax variances/abatements granted to anyone. Those are nothing more than bribery. We have had a lot of those here in Texas and they never bring the jobs and secondary economic boost promised. Just more corporate welfare.

Taxes should be the same in every state!?!?! Gah! What if people in Vermont don't want the same public policies as people in California do?
post #63 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruiteatingbear View Post

Great site for a Server Farm? "North Carolina has a long and notorious history of destruction by hurricanes. ...

Yeah, I don't get why they picked North Carolina at all. I wish someone with some actual knowledge of server farms would comment here as this seems like a very weird deal from what I can find out.

First off, it seems like a billion dollar server farm is absolutely HUGE. Is this their first "home grown" server farm? If so, it's weird for them to start off by building one twice the size of everyone else's.

Secondly, it seems like a billion bucks is about a sixth of what all the top five Internet companies combined spent on capital expenditures last year? That can't be right can it?

Third, everyone else is building server farms in the Pacific Northwest where it's cool, temperate, and there is abundant cheap power (hydroelectric). Why is Apple building something in a hot, stormy area down south? And maybe someone who lives there can say what kind of power they have in North Carolina? I thought it was all coal-fired down there which makes no sense at all.
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post #64 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I thought it was all coal-fired down there which makes no sense at all.

Nuclear or Coal, depending on the county, 7.78c/kWh commercial, which is cheaper than Oregon, way cheaper than California, and slightly more expensive than Washington state.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electri...able5_6_a.html
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post #65 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

I just can't see how giving Apple a $1 Billion tax incentive to hire less than 100 people is helping anything.

But I guess the money Apple would have to invest in this would make up for it.

It's a 45 million tax incentive, over ten years. That's just $4.5 million a year.

The 100 people is just the first step. Once the thing is up to speed, they'll need a lot more people than that.

But don't forget that it will easily take a thousand people to build the place for them. That should count.

In addition, most of the materials will come from in-state. That's a lot of building material, which will support many more jobs during construction.

Then there is the continuing requirements that a plant of any type needs. People will be employed in food services, and other support rolls outside the company. Maintenance services, etc.

Apple may employ 100 people at first, but that's a good several hundred whose services will be needed. Later, all the jobs supported directly by Apple and from outside will number in the thousands.
post #66 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by otayranchdweeb View Post

One billion dollars to build a server farm? Where are they buying these servers, the Apple Store?

It could cost $500 million for the purchase of land, buildings, infrastructure etc.

It costs hundreds of dollars to build a crappy stadium these days. This is a much bigger project.
post #67 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

wow
really
what does one billion dollars buy
its just a farm .
for servers
and the price of everything has fallen .

this seems like a monster place .i wonder how many servers it takes to run all those billion dollar s of servers and would you need a few more servers to runthose servers ?? or wouild a g3 imac do the job ??

i guess itunes just got powerful
orange

Well, Google has several hundred thousand servers.

Akamai isn't enough for Apple anymore, so they are using an additional company. Both of those companies have many tens of thousands of servers.

Since we don't know just what Apple has planned, we can't say what would b enough.

But when we consider that one large supercomputer can cost hundreds of millions, this isn't so surprising.
post #68 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptysell View Post

The government is buying GM...didn't you get the memo? I guess when you own something you aren't running any part of it...right?

No, they're not buying it.

At least know what you're talking about.
post #69 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

As quick FYI: iWork isn't created in California, its actually created Pennsylvania.

Software that can create entire states? Where can I buy that!
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post #70 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I think it's funny how Americans always go on about how things "aren't made in the USA anymore" and what a shame it is, but the only reason it's true is because USA workers don't want to really work and won't accept the same wages that others will accept in other countries.

It's not rocket science. If USA workers actually wanted to work hard for their money or pay a fair price for quality manufactured stuff, everything could be made in the USA. As long as the majority of the population is lazy, overpaid and addicted to cheap asian knockoffs of their own brands, the situation will pretty much continue as it is.

So you're saying that we should accept Chinese wages and benefits?

Europe is having the same problem. Japan is having to drop the "hire for life" proposition as well.

It's all crumbling.

When trading partners have about the same economic level, this works well, but when one very large member is well below the rest, manufacturing naturally moves to the lowest cost provider.

it's the fault of the consumer. They're the ones who want to pay less. Companies have no choice but to locate where they can make that possible.

After a while, costs in China and other areas in Asia will move up the way they did in japan, and have been doing in S Korea and Taiwan.

That will take at least a couple of decades. But when it does, then it won't matter where something is manufactured, and transportation costs will become a bigger part of the equation. We saw it with Japanese auto manufacturers. When it became more expensive to manufacture in Japan AND ship here, they opened plants here.
post #71 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I think it's funny how Americans always go on about how things "aren't made in the USA anymore" and what a shame it is, but the only reason it's true is because USA workers don't want to really work and won't accept the same wages that others will accept in other countries.

It's not rocket science. If USA workers actually wanted to work hard for their money or pay a fair price for quality manufactured stuff, everything could be made in the USA. As long as the majority of the population is lazy, overpaid and addicted to cheap asian knockoffs of their own brands, the situation will pretty much continue as it is.


Hey Virgil I like your past posts, but this one sucked.
American workers have the HIGHEST productivity in the free world.
Except for Mexico which is number one.
In America we produce way more per hour than anyone else .
we also take less days off than anyone else
Europe shuts down for the summer .

And most of the innovation comes from here. For many reasons we have lost a lot of jobs . BUT IT WILL NEVER BE BECAUSE OF LAZY AMERICANS . And any one who says so is a complete asshole .

Our workplace is the model for the rest of the world .

Our gov't and scum bag special interests never protected our industries in the correct manner. In NYS they even subsidize companies to out source NYS jobs to India so fcuk me, my taxes pay for my buddies to lose there jobs.

Korea dumped steel until almost all our shipyards and steel works were killed off .THIS IS WHAT CHINA DID TO OUR TOY INDUSTRY. Across the board this tactic of other gov't and special interests dumping on us until whole industries collapse is why we are so bad off here and not because we are lazy.

There is real pain the Usa right now And the pain is not from our great hard working citizens doing something wrong. Which also makes us very bitter that we were fooled so badly. AND That our elected leaders could be bought off so cheaply. The right and left did this.

Of course the CEO'S are to blame for lost jobs too.

peace

9

YOU have take care of our home fires first.Then we can aid other people .
American .I mean north american industries HAVE ONLY WANTED A LEVEL playing field in which in to compete .
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post #72 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Why post wow 2 dozen times and write the word weeeeeeee by itself, not to mention the rest of your posts?

Perhaps brucep was referring to this site: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/weeee
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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post #73 of 202
I'm thinking of the Apple employees that would work there ...

On the upside: beautiful scenery, hiking & kayaking.
On the downside: speedtraps, baptist-billboards & blue laws.
post #74 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Well, Google has several hundred thousand servers.

Akamai isn't enough for Apple anymore, so they are using an additional company. Both of those companies have many tens of thousands of servers.

Since we don't know just what Apple has planned, we can't say what would b enough.

But when we consider that one large supercomputer can cost hundreds of millions, this isn't so surprising.

I can see now that it's only 300 million the most .Two large farms built at once side by side. So if one blows up There's a backup. Another 300 million for expansion and access to cooling waters . And the electricity should be over 400 million in 10 yrs .I read up all night about these server farms Apple can even build its own larger servers .

they even hook up all these server's together at the factory .and then put them in a container . and then the container's itself gets installed in the large server room . wow

makes it easy to upgrade

So anyway if akamai and google and apple and hp all join together and light all the remaining dark fiber optic. It will be like magic for steaming everything and anything on this planet And they will put the phone companies out of biz .
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #75 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

My first thought was too slam you bad, But then I thought that is how your kind creates the teckspud kind .I went and fixed my last two offensive posts. Yes, they were poor. It was late, I was sloppy and the new gaming site really rocks . And I do change them because to a point ,I do want to fit in. And I would never want to upset anyone here ,for any reason. Even bill gates would get a hug from me .

Much better.

You should know that the crazy disjointed style you usually write in makes it very hard to read and I generally just skip your posts as a result. I may be the only one, but I doubt it. So, if the post you replied to was too negative for your tastes, consider what I'm saying - if you want your posts to be read and replied to, do yourself a favor and write in a style like everyone else. It's for your own good if you want to participate.
post #76 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Perhaps brucep was referring to this site: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/weeee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPhWf...layer_embedded
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #77 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's all crumbling.

When trading partners have about the same economic level, this works well, but when one very large member is well below the rest, manufacturing naturally moves to the lowest cost provider.

it's the fault of the consumer. They're the ones who want to pay less. Companies have no choice but to locate where they can make that possible.

After a while, costs in China and other areas in Asia will move up the way they did in japan, and have been doing in S Korea and Taiwan.

You act like that's a bad thing. When things are made more cheaply, the overall welfare of the world improves. Trading with people who can't do things more cheaply than you makes no sense because you can do the same thing yourself. When rich companies trade with poorer ones, both sides benefit.
post #78 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

I can see now that it's only 300 million the most .Two large farms built at once side by side. So if one blows up There's a backup. Another 300 million for expansion and access to cooling waters . And the electricity should be over 400 million in 10 yrs .I read up all night about these server farms Apple can even build its own larger servers .

they even hook up all these server's together at the factory .and then put them in a container . and then the container's itself gets installed in the large server room . wow

makes it easy to upgrade

So anyway if akamai and google and apple and hp all join together and light all the remaining dark fiber optic. It will be like magic for steaming everything and anything on this planet And they will put the phone companies out of biz .

I'm not so sure there's much, if any dark fiber left. They expanded too fast in the beginning, then left much. But it's been years since that time. internet use has jumped more than a bit as has bandwidth.



When we started our commercial photo lab here in NYC back in about '81, it cost us about $100,000 to get the electricity up and running.

The amount of electrical power and distribution that Apple would need could increase that number by 500x.

The costs for the campus and buildings, and there would be more than one, are extremely high. Air conditioning is in the tens of millions for facilities like this as is back-up power.

Then you need the computing facilities to connect the network of servers together.

I can see that over a period of nine years why this could cost a billion.
post #79 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

You act like that's a bad thing. When things are made more cheaply, the overall welfare of the world improves. Trading with people who can't do things more cheaply than you makes no sense because you can do the same thing yourself. When rich companies trade with poorer ones, both sides benefit.

That's not really true. It's only true for some. The standards of living in these places isn't what you would want to live at.

It's like the old expression, which is true; bad money drives out good money.

Bad products do drive out good ones.

You can't forget that it took 200 years for the industrial countries to get to the levels we're at. There were a great many struggles to get there.

China has stated that they want to get there in a couple more decades. While that seems nice for them, it really isn't.

They are the worlds biggest polluter. Even their own government admitted that about 700,000 people died there last year because of pollution, and other organizations estimate it really could be three to four times as many.

They are displacing tens of millions to make way for dams that even groups in China say are not required, and will cause destruction of vast tracts of farmland. Farmland that China is increasingly in need of, as their policies are resulting in more farmland turning into desert every day, as they direct water to industrial production.

There isn't much good to be had in trying to gain economically too quickly. What I mentioned is just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.
post #80 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by skittlebrau79 View Post

The government isn't running any part of the banks or the car companies. If they were, maybe we would have banks that actually lent money instead of horded it.


These are myths that are perpetuated on the Internet. Yes he did take a private jet sometimes. So does Steve Jobs. But according to http://www.apple.com/hotnews/agreenerapple/, Steve Jobs wants Apple to "be greener". So does it make Steve Jobs a hypocrite for saying he cares about the environment, when he doesn't because he takes a private jet?

And I don't see how he "scares people" to make money. He made a documentary that made a lot of money. He writes books that make a lot of money. The science in them is sound, and in fact is supported by peer-reviewed journals. Note that not a single peer reviewed scientific journal has refuted a single fact in "An Inconvenient Truth". In fact many of them lauded it. So tell me again, how does he "scare people"? If the truth is scary, tough shit.


Since when is good grammar and spelling personal?



Technically they aren't. There have been no bankruptcy proceedings. But anyway, the United States of America would be bankrupt, if it didn't just print more money and issue more bonds whenever it needs it. If California could just issue more bounds it would, but they can't because nobody will buy them. The US Government issues bonds--lots of them in fact--and relies on the fact that China will buy them. When China stopped a couple months ago, the world paniced and Obama accused China of manipulating world economies (which is true).


Prove it. According to federal sources summed up @ http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08230/904931-109.stm, California has the 6th highest tax burden of any state, when measured as a percentage of GDP. Get the facts right.

The budget crisis is largely a result of the stock market crash. Capital gains taxes account for large amounts of tax revenue for California, which is the case for many large states with wealthy populations like New York. Nobody wants to sell stock when prices are low, so all those Apple employees with options below water are just sitting on them. Therefore, California loses out on revenue.

Finally, the recently passed tax increases in California actually LOWER taxes for corporations. It changes the way the revenue basis for tax purposes is calculated in such a way that is favorable to corporations. Basically without going into too much detail it allows companies based in California use the number of employees in California/revenue, instead of purely revenue, to determine taxation. For some companies this will increase taxes, but that means they are making a lot of money with few employees in California yet still claim California is their corporate headquarters--so yeah boo to them. For large companies like Apple and Google, who are all headquartered in the Bay, this will be beneficial.


False. First, California's unemployment isn't the highest in the nation, they are fourth (that's easily googled). Second, California doesn't have the highest taxes in the nation as noted above. Third, MANY states have budget shortfalls. California's is huge, but then again California is the largest state in the nation by far. More than 1/10 of the country lives in that state, and 1/8th of the nation's economy is from California. Put another way, the US deficit from 2007 was almost 500 billion, or $1,428/person. California's $48 billion deficit is approximately $1,333/person.

The inexperienced Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is responsible for California's budget problems. Darrell Issa spent 1.7 million to blame (for the energy crisis) and recall Governor Grey Davis. Cutting the car registration tax resulted a substantial ($21B) short fall.

From a personal Income perspective (they make more), the people in California are taxed less as a percentage then MOST other sates.

A big component in the "cost of during business" is the cost of real estate which is expensive in California (employees need to be paid more to live). That's a market driven component (not based on costs) mostly out of the control of the government.
Cubist
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Cubist
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