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Microsoft says Zune HD is real, will get multi-touch - Page 3

post #81 of 181
5/27/09 at 2:35am
If you've never seen a modern OLED screen in action, you won't know what the fuss is about.

I didn't until a couple of days ago when a friend showed me his new Samsung phone with a 3.7" OLED screen. I thought the display on my iPod touch was pretty good but the difference was staggering. The colours looked so much more vivid and lifelike on the OLED screen. My iPod touch's screen is incredibly pixelated and washed out in comparison.

Do consumers care about acronyms? No. Do they care about picture quality? Yes! I certainly do. I fully expect the new iPhone (and hopefully iPod touch) will have an OLED screen.
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post #82 of 181
5/27/09 at 3:03am
Cool. Finally a device with Mobile Internet Explorer on board to replace my Touch. I need a good laugh every now and then to help me through the day.
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post #83 of 181
5/27/09 at 3:15am
Oh Noes! The chicklets all fell off!

So much for that argument...

Another reason this device will fail - no floppy drive.
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post #84 of 181
5/27/09 at 3:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

100% agree. But what if, just a small, what if, and msft is preparing the way for something bigger? We all know millions of iPhone contracts expire soon, windows is known to have touch in version 7, it runs much, much faster than vista, we all know I.T. Departmnents are going to upgrade, the palm pre looks pretty good, msft has finally found advertising that works and could be the table setting for a really bug campaign, winows mobile 6.5 looks really really good, leaps beyond present mobile and msft one time went after Google. Not sure about you but all that msft needs us one good company ( ala google/yahoo), a phone with mobile 6.5 and open source apps and they could be off and running and while I do have a National Marketing and Promotional background, its hard to see Microsoft doing something right, it has to be all that red tape that someone spoke about earlier - as they mentioned there are a few with blogs that work at Redmond and they state it's nearly impossible to see anything come to fruition. A shame really.

Personally, I think someone should run with Project Looking Glass
Bottom Left, start the streaming and about a few minutes in, when they talk to a live audience, you will see things that we now see on Leopard, very cool Operating System.
http://www.sun.com/software/looking_glass/


Peace.


Project Looking Glass had some nice stuff going on but it looks like Sun abandoned it sometime back in 2006. I ran it for a day years ago and as nice as it was I ended up just back in the normal XP gui.

I think Sun should revisit this project along with a SFF optimised build of Solaris and push it out to ASUS and ACER etc for an alternative OS on their netbooks. This would be pretty good on the gigabyte touch screen netbook.
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post #85 of 181
5/27/09 at 3:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_steve View Post

When Windows 1.0 was introduced in 1985 Microsoft had ZERO SHARE in the market for GUI-based operating systems. Obviously their persistence and aggressive marketing has paid off well over the past few decades.

In view of this history it's really silly to claim that Microsoft should just drop out of the music player market because their current market share is low. History can repeat itself.

Steve have you used MS all these yrs since 1985. Does MS run fine for you ?

I remember, MS from 1995 onwards . And it always had major problems . Lost data. Crashing. Days on the phone with tech support.
I wonder why you are so proud of a company with such a mediocre record. People who know apple system get upset because so many people have had a bad time with MS.

Millions upon millions of people are fully averse to computers because of MS . Having an unfair monopoly and killing of any innovation that threatens your monopoly sucks .

I wish zune the best . But thank god apple did the ipod . If MSFT did the ipod it surely would be shitty .

Steve has a nice day .
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #86 of 181
5/27/09 at 3:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase R View Post

I think you missed my point. Apple has seen the reward from Multi-Touch and they will continue to do so even if other companies start incorporating it. Patenting Multi-Touch is like patenting FM radio or whatever. Apple did come up with the idea but it's not like MS is using Apple's code... It's just another feature MS (and others) are significantly late on.

dude .let it go .you lost your point . . multi touch is owned by apple .they have patents proving this . multi touch is worth billions. apple did all the heavy lifting. move on .
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #87 of 181
5/27/09 at 4:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jb85 View Post

The fact that it can't play HD movies and tv shows on the actual device is deffinitely a turn off for me. I have purchased a lot of HD content from itunes for my iPhone and there is a significant difference between SD and HD. I think my iPhone picture looks amazing. What's the point of calling it a Zune HD if it can't even play HD content on the device itself?

It can, it just doesn't have a HD display - and neither does Apple's offerings.

I expect that it will be using an NVIDIA Tegra processor.

It will be interesting to see what display output options the new iPhone and iPod touch have in June/July - surely it is time for a 720p output? I hope that the dock connector can accomodate these.

I think the new Apple devices will also use an OLED screen, so that isn't a unique selling point.

And digital radio - is that DAB? Otherwise there's a collective yawn from Europe, where this device will be marketed for the first time ever.
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post #88 of 181
5/27/09 at 4:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palalune View Post

Cool. Finally a device with Mobile Internet Explorer on board to replace my Touch. I need a good laugh every now and then to help me through the day.

Internet Explorer Mobile will be updated (sic) to IE6 engine, it no longer uses IE4 engine.

iPod nano 5th Gen 8GB Orange, iPad 3rd Gen WiFi 32GB White
MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.66GHz 8GB RAM 120GB Intel 320M
Mac mini Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz 8GB RAM, iPhone 5 32GB Black

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iPod nano 5th Gen 8GB Orange, iPad 3rd Gen WiFi 32GB White
MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.66GHz 8GB RAM 120GB Intel 320M
Mac mini Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz 8GB RAM, iPhone 5 32GB Black

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post #89 of 181
5/27/09 at 4:17am
I don't see myself dropping my iPod touch for this (instead, I'll be upgrading to one of the new iPhones once they are announced).

However, what I DON'T understand is why everyone keeps discounting the OLED screen and the HD radio. OLED screens look dramatically better than regular LED-backlit or traditional LCD screens. The colors are much more vibrant and "pop out" at you and they have lower power consumption.

Second of all, HD radio. Free, high quality tunes over the air without the need for an cellular/WiFi connection. Ain't nothing wrong with that
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post #90 of 181
5/27/09 at 4:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Just how many times does Microsoft think they can keep pulling off this stunt?
DR DOS starts gaining a foothold and Microsoft 'announces' their vaporware that will be 'so much better' and kills off DR DOS with FUD.
So they somehow think they can pull the same BS against the industry leader?
Pathetic.

Actually they didnt use FUd to kill of dr doss, they made a windows update that checked to see if you were using dr dos, and if so, it wouldnt boot windows(this came out in their antitrust trial and they then got sued and lost in a seperate trial after that)
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post #91 of 181
5/27/09 at 4:30am
Great! Another new Microsoft product in the offing! Time to visit the garden shed and get the astro-lawn mower out!
Believe nothing, no matter where you heard it, not even if I have said it, if it does not agree with your own reason and your own common sense.
Buddha
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Believe nothing, no matter where you heard it, not even if I have said it, if it does not agree with your own reason and your own common sense.
Buddha
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post #92 of 181
5/27/09 at 4:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Finally they make something beautiful and then screw it up with 4 screws on the back.

<shaking head>

The screws mean user-replaceable battery and possibly solid state hard drive, without the back popping off too easily. In my opinion, that's a plus, not a minus - I've now gone through 3 iPods whose batteries have all given up the ghost... In my opinion the non-replaceable battery issue is the biggest problem with iPods across the board, followed by the non-replaceable hard drives.

I also have to say that the flat back on the new zune looks pretty nice, and should sit on a table/airplane tray/etc, much better than the curved iPod touch....
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post #93 of 181
5/27/09 at 4:53am
Another iPod copy. This time in HD. I give you MDN's recent take on the matter.

According to CNET, Zune HD "is based on Windows CE and will use a version of Internet Explorer customized for its touch screen." Quick, somebody dial 911, we just heard a train wreck!

Now, Zune HD is not the first portable media player that combines anything, since it is vapor. You do not get to claim "first" with a press release and a photo of something that looks so 1990s Sony, that Sony ought to sue. If it actually does ship "in the U.S. this fall," it'll be the first player to combine a specific bunch of elements into an overly-bevelled package under a severely damaged brand name which will continue failing to sell in meaningful numbers. In any other company's hands on this (or any other) planet, Zune would have been discontinued long ago, if it'd ever been given the go ahead for development and launch in the first place.

Do not discount the possibility that this is yet another attempt, however weak it may be, by Microsoft to "freeze the market" ahead of Apple's expected announcements regarding iPhone, iPod touch, and as-yet-unannounced products. Regardless, Microsoft is morbidly delusional either way.

"Any product that is essentially a copy of something else... there's something inherently less interesting about them. Because the companies that make them don't lead, they follow." - Paul Thurrott, March 19, 2009
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post #94 of 181
5/27/09 at 5:17am
It's very pretty for sure but I can't really see what it does that the iPhone/iPod Touch doesn't do, outside of the radio.

That said, if they add a subscription all you can watch video store I could be tempted. Apple really need to wake up to the benefits of subscription services.
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post #95 of 181
5/27/09 at 5:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyapple View Post

Anyone else notice how on the display in the picture "more" is cut off on the bottom?

Can't imagine something as sloppy as that showing up on an Apple product, especially on a publicity photo.

Just another example of MicroSoft's fine inattention to detail.

Not only that, but the word "Marketplace" is cut off. How can they not even fit their own text on the screen???
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post #96 of 181
5/27/09 at 5:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jz1492 View Post


Is MS counting on OLED to fool customers into believing the Zune is actually HD?

great point. The folks who created HD radio used that same gimmick. The HD in HD Radio doesn't stand for High Definition, it's actually just two pretty little letters used to fool people. What they're actually getting is more of the same crappy radio stations nobody like anyway. That was their answer to satellite radio. Microsoft is doing the same thing.
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post #97 of 181
5/27/09 at 5:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

great point. The folks who created HD radio used that same gimmick. The HD in HD Radio doesn't stand for High Definition, it's actually just two pretty little letters used to fool people. What they're actually getting is more of the same crappy radio stations nobody like anyway. That was their answer to satellite radio. Microsoft is doing the same thing.

The most important advantages of OLEDs are:

- High brightness together with strong contrast
- Brightness: 100,000 cd/m² brightness at 30 lm/W
- No viewing angle dependency: Viewing angle is 160°
- Suitability for video
- Wider temperature range
- Full colour screens and flexible screens possible
- Low weight
- Compact, extremely slim constructions
- low voltage -3 to 10 V


As far as the screen resolution I think people are confusing the ability to play a file which is encoded at 720p vs being a display with 1280 x 720 or 921,600 pixels. Sounds like the ZuneHD will be capable of playing a 720p file like if you connect it via a dock connector to your main tv. This function would be useful for bringing a copy of a movie to a friends house or on vacation or whatever. I would expect the next Itouch to also support this functionality and also include a OLED screen
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post #98 of 181
5/27/09 at 5:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pats View Post

The most important advantages of OLEDs are:

- High brightness together with strong contrast
- Brightness: 100,000 cd/m² brightness at 30 lm/W
- No viewing angle dependency: Viewing angle is 160°
- Suitability for video
- Wider temperature range
- Full colour screens and flexible screens possible
- Low weight
- Compact, extremely slim constructions
- low voltage -3 to 10 V

...

That's great - and for how long do you think this will be a differentiating feature missing on the iphone-ipod touch? If it's as great as everyone says it is, Apple will integrate it when the tech is properly matured. I'm not gonna drop my iPhone /iPod Touch and go running to get a ZuneHD just for the 6-12 months before Apple does it too. I don't see Apple having OLEDs in this year's upgrade pipeline. Probably next year though.
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post #99 of 181
5/27/09 at 5:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

That's great - and for how long do you think this will be a differentiating feature missing on the iphone-ipod touch? If it's as great as everyone says it is, Apple will integrate it when the tech is properly matured. I'm not gonna drop my iPhone /iPod Touch and go running to get a ZuneHD just for the 6-12 months before Apple does it too. I don't see Apple having OLEDs in this year's upgrade pipeline. Probably next year though.

This.

Apple, as usual, will remain a few stes ahead of the game anyway. Redmond usually can't see beyond the current fiscal quarter.
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post #100 of 181
5/27/09 at 6:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palalune View Post

Cool. Finally a device with Mobile Internet Explorer on board to replace my Touch. I need a good laugh every now and then to help me through the day.

You know, you may have hit on an idea for a great game for iPhone here ... "Windoze Emulation" where you have to try to download an update before the worm or virus attacks and navigate mindless and incorrect messages although some are critical to survive. Balance between firewalls from The Master and those from 3rd party apps and try to get the elusive mail message before it goes into a spam filter you can't locate ... all the while you have to dismiss fast appearing pop ups, Active Z and restart messages before the small window closes and you lose. The game has to re purchased every so often as it gets slower and slower the more you play and it costs more to repair than replace ... This could sell in the billions!
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #101 of 181
5/27/09 at 6:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

This.

Apple, as usual, will remain a few stes ahead of the game anyway. Redmond usually can't see beyond the current fiscal quarter.

OLED is expensive and unproven. While Apple leads in ways such as dropping SCSI and floopy drives before anyone else, they also tend to shy away from "bags of hurt" as we all know. I don't think OLED is a bag of hurt, but I think it falls in the same "wait and see" category.
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post #102 of 181
5/27/09 at 6:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman View Post

While it's not fugly like the original Zune, it does have visible screws where the iPod/iPod Touch never had.

It's totally lacking the iPod/iPod Touch scratches as well.
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post #103 of 181
5/27/09 at 6:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

OLED is expensive and unproven. While Apple leads in ways such as dropping SCSI and floopy drives before anyone else, they also tend to shy away from "bags of hurt" as we all know. I don't think OLED is a bag of hurt, but I think it falls in the same "wait and see" category.


Did you miss out on the 500M investment Apple made with LG? You don't need that kind of upfront commitment to produce LCD panels which Apple can buy from about anyone. Apple paid 500M upfront to get first in line for OLED from LG. The only question is what size panels and in which devices do they put them in. June 8 we will know if they are going into this years Iphone/Itouch.
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post #104 of 181
5/27/09 at 6:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

OLED is expensive and unproven. While Apple leads in ways such as dropping SCSI and floopy drives before anyone else, they also tend to shy away from "bags of hurt" as we all know. I don't think OLED is a bag of hurt, but I think it falls in the same "wait and see" category.

Is non- scratchable and un-crackable plastic "wait and see" also?
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post #105 of 181
5/27/09 at 6:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

That's great - and for how long do you think this will be a differentiating feature missing on the iphone-ipod touch? If it's as great as everyone says it is, Apple will integrate it when the tech is properly matured. I'm not gonna drop my iPhone /iPod Touch and go running to get a ZuneHD just for the 6-12 months before Apple does it too. I don't see Apple having OLEDs in this year's upgrade pipeline. Probably next year though.

Where's the LED on the iMac?
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post #106 of 181
5/27/09 at 6:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Um... you are aware there are likely more MS users that would never swap their miserable Windows experience for all-encompassing Mac experience, than all Mac users together.

Yeah, but the point is whether they all have the cash to savor the "experience."
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post #107 of 181
5/27/09 at 6:26am
Just another classic example of trying to keep people from buying your competitors products before you can get yours out the door.

Kind of like saying "Hey look at me and what I might do years from now, do not look at that guy who will have the product next week"

This is a poor attempt to keep people from making a purchase in hopes that M$ might have something slightly better.

Everyone knows how apple works they do not allow sneak peeks or early product announcements unless it is for a really good reason and knows it will not hurt current sales of current products. M$ knows this and is trying to use it against Apple.

If OLED is ready for prime time you know Apple will use it if it affords them the ability to get better performance and better end user experience.

It use to be said that no one can take on M$, however, Apple is forcing them to compete with me on their terms... an interesting time we live in.
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post #108 of 181
5/27/09 at 6:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pats View Post

Did you miss out on the 500M investment Apple made with LG? You don't need that kind of upfront commitment to produce LCD panels which Apple can buy from about anyone. Apple paid 500M upfront to get first in line for OLED from LG. The only question is what size panels and in which devices do they put them in. June 8 we will know if they are going into this years Iphone/Itouch.

As i've said, i fully expect the iPhone and iPod Touch to sport OLED - I just don't know when. Could it be this year? Of course. You're right, we'll just have to wait and see.
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post #109 of 181
5/27/09 at 6:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

If OLED is ready for prime time you know Apple will use it if it affords them the ability to get better performance and better end user experience.

Exactly. That's all i'm saying. I don't expect apple to rush OLED into their products just to catch up with MS. Apple doesn't play the "me too" game - we all know that's microsoft's business model, not apple's. If they have it this year, great. If not, they have their reasons. It's not like Apple is unaware of OLED's potential and somehow microsoft is beating them to the punch.
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post #110 of 181
5/27/09 at 7:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Is non- scratchable and un-crackable plastic "wait and see" also?

It's a simple matter of taking care of your stuff, Teckstud.

It's pretty easy to keep all your devices looking as good as the day you bought them.
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post #111 of 181
5/27/09 at 7:24am
Even if this is a bust, I've seen a few decent people here make the point I've ALWAYS tried to convey to the majority of people here: COMPETITION DRIVES INNOVATION. Why do you think technology gets such a big boost from wars!?

Before everyone goes ape sh*t over the fact that hd videos don't play in hd on the device, keep in mind, a device this small won't display hd anyways. The fact that it can even support 1080p playback with it's video output is something MANY people will enjoy.

It really is disheartening to hear everyone bash things that aren't even out yet and that pose any kind of threat to Apple in any way (like the Pre.) Most of you people are boring as f**k for this reason.

I will say though, I'm glad to see at least a handful of people here actually have enough sense in their head to know things like this will only motivate Apple to make even better products.
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post #112 of 181
5/27/09 at 7:24am
There's no need to rush. The Zune HD is out in Septmember. The new iPhone will be out in July.

OLED is already proven tech. It's already used in phones with bigger and higher resolution screens than the iPhone. I'd wager that the new iPhone will have an OLED screen. Apple doesn't have much to lose against the Zune but they sure have a lot to lose against the other cell phone manufacturers.
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post #113 of 181
5/27/09 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

There's no need to rush. The Zune HD is out in Septmember. The new iPhone will be out in July.

OLED is already proven tech. It's already used in phones with bigger and higher resolution screens than the iPhone. I'd wager that the new iPhone will have an OLED screen. Apple doesn't have much to lose against the Zune but they sure have a lot to lose against the other cell phone manufacturers.

How come not one of you singing OLED's praises here has pointed out cost implications? How much more will it cost per Touch/handset?

If you are not sure, please move along.....
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post #114 of 181
5/27/09 at 7:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

You know, you may have hit on an idea for a great game for iPhone here ... "Windoze Emulation" where you have to try to download an update before the worm or virus attacks and navigate mindless and incorrect messages although some are critical to survive. Balance between firewalls from The Master and those from 3rd party apps and try to get the elusive mail message before it goes into a spam filter you can't locate ... all the while you have to dismiss fast appearing pop ups, Active Z and restart messages before the small window closes and you lose. The game has to re purchased every so often as it gets slower and slower the more you play and it costs more to repair than replace ... This could sell in the billions!

Hehe, brilliant :-)
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post #115 of 181
5/27/09 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palalune View Post

Hehe, brilliant :-)

Heck I better patent it quickly!
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post #116 of 181
5/27/09 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

How come not one of you singing OLED's praises here has pointed out cost implications? How much more will it cost per Touch/handset?

If you are not sure, please move along.....

Someone mentioned earlier that one of Sony's new mp3 players uses oled and it didn't effect prices too much. I couldn't find any info on this though.

edit:
here we go: http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921644636396 they hid the information on their homepage (LOL)

399 for 32gb, 299 for 16gb. I dunno. Seems a bit expensive.
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post #117 of 181
5/27/09 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palalune View Post

Hehe, brilliant :-)

actually he just sounds like a brainwashed fanboy who's watched too many apple tv ads.
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post #118 of 181
5/27/09 at 8:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

It's a simple matter of taking care of your stuff, Teckstud.

It's pretty easy to keep all your devices looking as good as the day you bought them.

Not when merely touching it scratches it- especially the hi-polished metal back. It's actually a simple matter of using cheap scratchable plastics- part of a planned obsolesence for the device I would presume. Actually quite brilliant on Apple's part.
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post #119 of 181
5/27/09 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

How come not one of you singing OLED's praises here has pointed out cost implications? How much more will it cost per Touch/handset?

If you are not sure, please move along.....

The price difference isn't significant. The Samsung i8910 8GB with 3.7" capacitive OLED screen is cheaper than the current iPhone 3G 8GB (£70 on a £30pm/18 month contract vs £100 on a £30pm/18 month contract).
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post #120 of 181
5/27/09 at 8:38am
I would hang myself if I worked for this pathetic company.

Daddy, what do you do at microsoft?
I work on the zune.
What's that?
It's like the ipod.
Never heard of it.
I know.

Steve Ballmer, man of vision and dynamic leader. What a loudmouth blustering buffoon.
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