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AT&T deploying HSPA 7.2 mobile service ahead of new iPhones

post #1 of 43
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AT&T has formally announced plans for deploying its 7.2 Mbps mobile data service upgrade this year, which will support faster iPhone models expected to be released this summer.

AT&T said the upgrade to "High Speed Packet Access (HSPA) 7.2 technology," which delivers theoretical peak speeds twice that of the company's current 3G network, will continue through 2011. Next year, the company will also begin trials of LTE (Long Term Evolution), with deployment of that technology to begin in 2011. LTE plans to eventually reach theoretical peak speeds of 20 Mbps.

Both HSPA and LTE are components of the 3rd Generation Partnership Project (3GPP) family of technologies, which include GSM/EDGE and UMTS, the worldwide "3G" service supported by the iPhone 3G.

Because AT&T's network is currently based on 3GPP standards, the company can deliver the upgrade to HSPA 7.2 service immediately to support faster smartphones prior to the buildout of LTE, which isn't expected to become widely available until at least 2011-2012.

The LTE Future

AT&T's largest competitor, Verizon Wireless, is also planning to begin building out LTE but currently maintains a CDMA2000/EVDO network, which is incompatible with GSM/UMTS devices.

Once Verizon and AT&T both begin operating LTE service, it will be much easier for US consumers to buy phones that work on either network. AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson, speaking to Walt Mossberg at All Things Digital, noted that LTE will also support data roaming across providers, saying "Its in all our best interests."

With roaming agreements, the LTE investments made by AT&T and Verizon will both benefit each other's customers. For years, both companies have been dumping billions into networks that can only serve phones related to their own mobile service technology families, which has resulted in massively wasteful competition.

AT&T's upgrade plans and "iPhone 7.2"

AT&T says its current 3G service is available in 350 major US metro areas, with deployment in another 20 planned this year. The company stated that its new HSPA 7.2 technology "will be deployed widely in the network, with the benefits of the network upgrade to be announced on a local basis as the faster speeds are turned up."

AT&T also said it will introduce "multiple HSPA 7.2-compatible laptop cards and smartphones beginning later this year." Next month, Apple is expected to release a new iPhone model that supports HSPA 7.2 service. In addition to having access to a faster network, the new iPhone model is expected to have a significantly faster processor, enabling it to better handle the data it can receive, resulting in faster overall operation.

Asked about whether the emergence of new smartphone platforms, including Google's Android and Palm's WebOS, would be problematic for AT&T, Stephenson answered, "Do I want to see fewer platforms? Yes, its better for my business. Will I see fewer platforms? I dont think so. So we need to take advantage of it and use it as an opportunity."

Speaking of the company's iPhone deal with Apple, Stephenson said Its worked out terrific. We have no complaints. While he noted that the company has "incurred dilution," he also said it has benefited by getting the premiere customer in the space, one with high data usage and low churn. Im very pleased with the deal, Stephenson said.

Covering the All Things Digital conference, John Paczkowski wrote that "its fourth-quarter AT&T added 2.1 million wireless subscribers. 1.9 million of them were iPhone accounts. 40 percent of thoseabout 760,000were new to AT&T."

Other network upgrades for 2009

Along with the upgrade to HSPA 7.2, AT&T also reported plans to build out other network improvements this year as part of a capital investment plan costing $17-18 billion. Elements include:
Near-Doubling Radio Frequency Capacity. In 2008 and 2009 to date, high-quality 850 MHz spectrum has been deployed in more than half of AT&T's 3G network footprint to improve overall coverage and in-building reception, with additional markets planned for later in the year.
More Bandwidth to Cell Sites. AT&T is adding fiber-optic connectivity and additional capacity to thousands of cell sites across the country this year, expanding the critical connections that deliver traffic from a cell site into the global IP backbone network. These upgrades will support the higher mobile broadband speeds enabled by both HSPA 7.2 and LTE.
More Cell Sites. Deployment of about 2,100 new cell sites across the country.
Wi-Fi Integration. Many AT&T smartphones will be able to switch seamlessly between 3G and Wi-Fi connectivity. AT&T customers with qualifying smartphone and 3G LaptopConnect plans have access to the nation's largest Wi-Fi network - more than 20,000 hotspots, including locations in all 50 states - at no additional charge. AT&T's global Wi-Fi footprint covers more than 90,000 hotspots, and AT&T also can create permanent or temporary extended Wi-Fi zones in areas with high 3G network use, like a grouping of hotels or a festival.
MicroCells. Customer trials leading toward general availability of AT&T 3G MicroCell offerings, which utilize femtocells to enhance in-building wireless coverage.
post #2 of 43
What's the point if you can't stream porn on an iphone? Seriously.
post #3 of 43
I wonder if these upgrades are the cause of the AT&T 3G data outages I'm seeing every weekend in the Philly area. It will work all week but as soon as Saturday hits...Boom!...3G service elicits a "could not establish data connection" error from my iPhone.

If I switch off 3G in Settings, (slow) connectivity returns via EDGE. As soon as Monday rolls around, 3G works again.

It's not just one tower--it's all along the Route 202 corridor from Wilmington, DE up through Valley Forge, PA. Usually with 5 bars of service and fully functional voice & text--only data is affected.

I welcome AT&T upgrading their infrastructure, but it bothers me if it comes at the expense of current functionality.
post #4 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

What's the point if you can't stream porn on an iphone? Seriously.

Who says you can't already do that?
post #5 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

What's the point if you can't stream porn on an iphone? Seriously.

It will probably work better in an office setting. Why don't you try it at the next staff meeting and let us know...
post #6 of 43
Whats are they talking about with the 3G and being able to seamlesly switch too wifi?
Just a few questions, they are talking about phone calls over wifi? And if so are they only talking about their special hot spots?

Because wouldn't it just be awsome that when your at home you can use your personal wifi for calling on the phone? Is that possible? Could/would they do that?

This would be awsome cuz the cell sservice at my house comes in and out, that would be perfect!!!

What do you think?
post #7 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tac22 View Post

Because wouldn't it just be awsome that when your at home you can use your personal wifi for calling on the phone? Is that possible? Could/would they do that?

Free app - it works and the delay is minimal.

-Ciao
post #8 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolWendy View Post

Free app - it works and the delay is minimal.

-Ciao

There're even better options. SipPhone, for instance. It's payable, but isn't tied to Skype, supports standard SIP protocol, manages provider's certificates, etc.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #9 of 43
Haha I just found out meanwhile that my iPhone is running on a network capable of 21Mb/s as is...

Gotta love Telstra in Australia (though they charge through the nose!)
post #10 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolWendy View Post

Free app - it works and the delay is minimal.

-Ciao

But what if AT&T implemented it so you wouldn't have to use an app like skype and the costs were already covered by your current plan and it worked like just as if you were on a cellular network calling and recieving calls???
post #11 of 43
I don't believe a word that comes out of AT&T's mouth. I'll believe it when I see it.
post #12 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by galley View Post

who says you can't already do that?

instructions now
post #13 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

instructions now

look up "iPhone Porn Grid" on your iphone browser in google

Ta Ta Voila

Streamed porn

Creamed Corn

et al!
post #14 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

I don't believe a word that comes out of AT&T's mouth. I'll believe it when I see it.

And you probably won't unless you live in L.A., Chicago, or NYC. AT&T will do what they usually do, bring it out in a couple high profile markets just to say they have it and leave everybody else still using edge.
post #15 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

And you probably won't unless you live in L.A., Chicago, or NYC. AT&T will do what they usually do, bring it out in a couple high profile markets just to say they have it and leave everybody else still using edge.

Nonsense. AT&T says it has 3G coverage in 350 markets, and the fact that they've deployed it here in Fort Wayne, IN, not exactly exactly the hub of the known universe, supports their assertion.
post #16 of 43
if they upgrade to 7.2 network, what about our present iphone 3g? the best i ever gotten was 1.4 (eastern freakin ky has 1.4 yo!)
the chip can go to 3.6 so where is my 2.4 left over i'd love to get 3.6 or even 3.0
so do you cut in half the max you'll "really" get so what's the point??

well guess what.....att caps at 1.4 but this sometimes is faster than my cable speed
http://www.mobilemag.com/2008/06/11/...ped-at-14mbps/
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post #17 of 43
Doesn't HSPA+ have a 21 mbps theoretical peak speed downstream?

Isn't LTE's theoretical peak speed downstream well over 100 mbps?
post #18 of 43
I'd be happy with 3G that worked consistently. There are times when I could watch a 10 minute
youtube video with no lag at my cubicle & then there are times when I would wait an hour for a
one minute video to load up. It doesn't seem to matter how many bars I have in 3G either. There
have been times when I've had 1 bar of 3G & could stream a youtube & other times with 5 bars
where nothing loaded at all.
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post #19 of 43
how long YouTube clip takes to buffer doesn't depend on the signal strength at the point of iPhone location. It seems to depend on where - on which server - geographically the video is cached.

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post #20 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

how long YouTube clip takes to buffer doesn't depend on the signal strength at the point of iPhone location. It seems to depend on where - on which server - geographically the video is cached.

What about websites? I'll check the same sites daily & there will be days where the network is fine
& then are days when nothing will load or will load with crazy-long lag. What's worse is that some of
these sites are formatted for the iPhone. They're literally a small logo & text. They should load in a few seconds.

When the network bogs down, I tend to see this message often:

CANNOT OPEN PAGE
Safari Could not open the page because the server stopped responding.
(This just happened a couple minutes ago while I had 3 bars of 3G.)
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post #21 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by mello View Post

What about websites? I'll check the same sites daily & there will be days where the network is fine
& then are days when nothing will load or will load with crazy-long lag. What's worse is that some of
these sites are formatted for the iPhone. They're literally a small logo & text. They should load in a few seconds.

It may depend on the bandwidth of Mr. Site itself, too. And, say, on bad guys, which think it's amusing to launch small DDoS attack against it.

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People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #22 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

if they upgrade to 7.2 network, what about our present iphone 3g? the best i ever gotten was 1.4 (eastern freakin ky has 1.4 yo!)
the chip can go to 3.6 so where is my 2.4 left over i'd love to get 3.6 or even 3.0
so do you cut in half the max you'll "really" get so what's the point??

well guess what.....att caps at 1.4 but this sometimes is faster than my cable speed
http://www.mobilemag.com/2008/06/11/...ped-at-14mbps/

Your present iPhone's hardware only does 3.6, so you will never see 7.2. Or 3.6 for that matter. A little something that is never mentioned in discussions about wireless bandwidth:

THE BANDWIDTH FIGURE STATED (7.2Mb/s or 3.6Mb/s) IS THE AGGREGATE BANDWIDTH AVAILABLE IN THE CELL.

Got that? It means that that's all that's available for everyone using the cell, in total, at any given point in time. You can only reach it if you are alone in the cell and are close to the base station and if you have a device that is capable of reaching that speed.

Can you see why the carriers never mention this? And you gotta love Telstra. Their network is "capable of" 21Mb/s, as long as you don't actually want to use a wireless device to access it, since none exist outside some development lab somewhere.
post #23 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

What's the point if you can't stream porn on an iphone? Seriously.

Im sure there was iPhone optimized porn sites within a week of its launch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

I welcome AT&T upgrading their infrastructure, but it bothers me if it comes at the expense of current functionality.

That does suck, but progress isnt always without obstacles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

I don't believe a word that comes out of AT&T's mouth. I'll believe it when I see it.

Ive noticed significant speed increases this year. I have maxed out at 3Mbps down and 1.4Mbps up, while Id say I now average over 1Mbps up and down.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

if they upgrade to 7.2 network, what about our present iphone 3g? the best i ever gotten was 1.4 (eastern freakin ky has 1.4 yo!)
the chip can go to 3.6 so where is my 2.4 left over i'd love to get 3.6 or even 3.0
so do you cut in half the max you'll "really" get so what's the point??

The current iPhone 3G will still have the same 3.6Mbps HSPDA. The next iPhone is reportedly getting a 7.2Mbps HSUPA, which will allow for up to 2.0Mbps uploads. Of course, youll never get that bandwidth on such slow HW.
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post #24 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by dapple View Post

Doesn't HSPA+ have a 21 mbps theoretical peak speed downstream?

HSPA+ does 21Mbit today, 42Mbit later this year and 58Mbit next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dapple View Post

Isn't LTE's theoretical peak speed downstream well over 100 mbps?

The first LTE chips support 150Mbit down, but the first release of the network standard supports over 320Mbit

LTE-Advanced takes that to over a gigabit.
post #25 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by mello View Post

What about websites? I'll check the same sites daily & there will be days where the network is fine
& then are days when nothing will load or will load with crazy-long lag. What's worse is that some of
these sites are formatted for the iPhone. They're literally a small logo & text. They should load in a few seconds.

When the network bogs down, I tend to see this message often:

CANNOT OPEN PAGE
Safari Could not open the page because the server stopped responding.
(This just happened a couple minutes ago while I had 3 bars of 3G.)

depends on the site

some sites are cached using akamai and similar technologies and there are multiple copies around the internet. youtube is not.
post #26 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by retroneo View Post

HSPA+ does 21Mbit today, 42Mbit later this year and 58Mbit next year.

You mean Today in EU and Asia!
In EU and Asia 7.2 is now Mainstream (in most of the key market)
and upgrade is in progress for 21.
US as usual is well beyond!

HSPA deployment

A lot of the new Equipment that is being deployed is LTE ready
so most of the work in 21mps will prove a good infrastructure for LTE when
will be activated (and spectrum acquired)

from Wiki Article:
The standard includes:
* Peak download rates of 326.4 Mbit/s for 4x4 antennas, 172.8 Mbit/s for 2x2 antennas for every 20 MHz of spectrum.
* Peak upload rates of 86.4 Mbit/s for every 20 MHz of spectrum.

Source: 3GPP LTE: Introducing Single-Carrier FDMA
post #27 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

how long YouTube clip takes to buffer doesn't depend on the signal strength at the point of iPhone location. It seems to depend on where - on which server - geographically the video is cached.

no errr well yes but
it depends on many varibles . the most important is have far is her from the tower or fiber box .

i am in nyc staten island 200 feet from the fios box . the speed is blazingt fast .yet some one one mile away tied to the same box gets on high traffic times 1/2 my speed .
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post #28 of 43
so a 7Mbps network, that means I can expect what, 1.1Mbps as opposed to the 300kbps that i get with the "high speed" 3g?
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post #29 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post

Nonsense. AT&T says it has 3G coverage in 350 markets, and the fact that they've deployed it here in Fort Wayne, IN, not exactly exactly the hub of the known universe, supports their assertion.

3g is in lots of smaller podunks in Indiana that make Ft Wayne look like Mexico City, problem is 3g is worthless if it is nearly the same speed as edge, and WAY WAY WAY slower than VZ EVDO that is in all the same areas.

I live in a heavy population area, lots of apts and stuff so I probably am connected to a loaded base station but I still feel ripped off as my friends pay less for the same preformance with the iphone first gen edge plan.
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post #30 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrnight View Post

look up "iPhone Porn Grid" on your iphone browser in google

Ta Ta Voila

Streamed porn

Creamed Corn

et al!

Yeah but you still have to look at ads and stuff right? Something like the youtube player but for porn would be nice
post #31 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tac22 View Post

Because wouldn't it just be awsome that when your at home you can use your personal wifi for calling on the phone? Is that possible? Could/would they do that?

Search the appstore for Skype, Nimbuzz or Truephone. All three can act as Skype clients on your iPhone (and all three have a lousy sound quality and fail to make the call in 9 out of 10 cases, in my limited testing at least).
post #32 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Your present iPhone's hardware only does 3.6, so you will never see 7.2. Or 3.6 for that matter. A little something that is never mentioned in discussions about wireless bandwidth.

There have been people showing screenshots of their current iPhones of Internet speed test apps that showed rates around 6 Mb/s. Naturally not in the U.S., since AT&T does not support anything faster than 3.6 Mb/s yet. I really do not understand why people keep ignoring such evidence and continue to claim that the current iPhone does not support anything faster than 3.6 Mb/s.
post #33 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

There have been people showing screenshots of their current iPhones of Internet speed test apps that showed rates around 6 Mb/s. Naturally not in the U.S., since AT&T does not support anything faster than 3.6 Mb/s yet. I really do not understand why people keep ignoring such evidence and continue to claim that the current iPhone does not support anything faster than 3.6 Mb/s.

Ive only seen 3Mbps down on AT&Ts network. I think were under the impression that the HSDPA radio in the device is only capable of 3.6Mbps, hence the assertion.

There has been plenty of links stating the 3.6 speed. If you have some stating otherwise, please post them.
http://www.gearlog.com/2008/07/apple...ne_3g_runs.php At the very least, we should be getting 7.2Mbps HSDPA and 2.0Mbps HSUPA in the next model.
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post #34 of 43
Does anyone know of a website that lists or has a map of the locations of the new 850mhz
towers?
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post #35 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I’ve only seen 3Mbps down on AT&T’s network.

Which does not tell you anything in regard to whether the iPhone is limited to 3.6 or 7.2 because we know that no phone can go faster than 3.6 Mbps on AT&T's network.
Quote:
I think we’re under the impression that the HSDPA radio in the device is only capable of 3.6Mbps, hence the assertion.

There has been plenty of links stating the 3.6 speed. If you have some stating otherwise, please post them.

http://www.gearlog.com/2008/07/apple...ne_3g_runs.php

The link you posted only states that the iPhone is capable of the 3.6 standard (or in other words that is maximum speed is higher than 1.8). It does not state that 3.6 is the iPhone's maximum.

Here is the screenshot:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...14#post7316614
And here is the chip the current iPhone is reported to use (which does 7.2):
http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/produ...12ab6ab94205ef
post #36 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

The link you posted only states that the iPhone is capable of the 3.6 standard (or in other words that is maximum speed is higher than 1.8). It does not state that 3.6 is the iPhone's maximum.

Your logic is sound.

Quote:
Here is the screenshot:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...14#post7316614
And here is the chip the current iPhone is reported to use (which does 7.2):
http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/produ...12ab6ab94205ef

I can’t look at that link at this moment as I’m in a rural area and quite lucky to have the EDGE I have, but I do believe you based on the manner in which you made your post.
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post #37 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

What's the point if you can't stream porn on an iphone? Seriously.

Google "iPhone porn" on your phone and pick a site. There are tons. At work, it sure beats taking your laptop into the bathroom.
post #38 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

There have been people showing screenshots of their current iPhones of Internet speed test apps that showed rates around 6 Mb/s. Naturally not in the U.S., since AT&T does not support anything faster than 3.6 Mb/s yet. I really do not understand why people keep ignoring such evidence and continue to claim that the current iPhone does not support anything faster than 3.6 Mb/s.

So we should give more weight to a screenshot, a set of pixels, which are set it in stone, of course, not manipulatable by software or anything, versus the physical impossibility of the hardware doing what you're suggesting.

The other possibility is that compression was being used over the link, but I think the more likely explanation is that it's bullshit.
post #39 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

So we should give more weight to a screenshot, a set of pixels, which are set it in stone, of course, not manipulatable by software or anything, versus the physical impossibility of the hardware doing what you're suggesting.

Words typed by humans suggesting the physical impossibility. There might be people simple making things up and writing forum post declaring the physical impossibility and there might be a second set of people creating fake screenshots.

Show me one claim that cites an authorative source, eg, a chipset specification, a test with two smartphones on the same network with one showing the network is capable of 7.2 Mbps and the other showing that the iPhone is stuck below 3.6 Mbps.
post #40 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

Words typed by humans suggesting the physical impossibility. There might be people simple making things up and writing forum post declaring the physical impossibility and there might be a second set of people creating fake screenshots.

Show me one claim that cites an authorative source, eg, a chipset specification, a test with two smartphones on the same network with one showing the network is capable of 7.2 Mbps and the other showing that the iPhone is stuck below 3.6 Mbps.

You're a fucking idiot. Really. Do you think these things happen by accident? Apple spent time and money building a phone to a secret set of specifications, then lied to the FCC about those specifications and lied to their customers? Actions with huge consequences. For what reason? To make your infantile fantasies come true? So you can live in a world where magic happens? Your phone is suddenly better than it is?

Get a grip.
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