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Early glimpse at Zune HD: "better" than iPod touch - Page 2

post #41 of 269
All fun and games for MS . . . until the next iPod Touch refresh, and it'll be a bloodbath all over again. Hell, the iPhone's already pushing most non-phone media players into obsolescence.
post #42 of 269
I don't think it is better than the iPod, but do like the idea of a radio tuner built in. HD is too new for a lot of people to benefit, plus no AM. AM HD could be sweet. I hope Apple gets with the program and includes radio in future iPods, and I don't mean just the touch.
post #43 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

Me too. I wonder what good all of Apple's multi-touch gestures did them as MS seems to have stolen all of them.

The UI actually looks kind of clunky, but usable. The physical device is ok enough for people to not really care about so much. It's really not a better looking product but they don't have to necessarily be better. In other words, cheaper goes a long way.

Don't forget that MS will use its cash-on-hand to subsidize this as a loss-leader long enough to gain traction, as it did with the XBox.
This announcement is obviously pre-AppleOS 3 FUD. MS doesn't have any other tricks (like quality, originality or taste) up its sleeve.
post #44 of 269
Well, even if the product is a sales failure like all previous Zune models, you really have to admit that they are catching up. MS can afford to fail forever on this thing, and in about 2 years time, it will start to surpass the iPod Touch. I expected it to be longer than 2 years, but it doesn't seem like it. MS really learned quick from Apple and MS has the money to fund the failures for as long as it takes.
post #45 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenTigerpaw View Post

This should make for some good competition for Apple. Which they haven't really had after Microsoft's Vista failed.

Still a little annoyed over that Mojave campaign.



Hmm, I wonder why.

Unrelated to this topic, but since you mentioned Vista...

http://www.dailytech.com/US+Army+Say...ticle15217.htm

I'm wondering if Army's acceptance of Vista will not push Vista into more businesses as well; Anyhow, I think it is still early to say Vista has failed.
post #46 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashmanBurgess View Post

WORD! Was going to say the same thing. It's as HD as the iPhone screen only smaller.

But it is OLED, and it might end up looking much better regardless resolution. Perceived improvement can easily be higher than older technology-more pixels screen.
post #47 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post

I don't think it is better than the iPod, but do like the idea of a radio tuner built in. HD is too new for a lot of people to benefit, plus no AM. AM HD could be sweet. I hope Apple gets with the program and includes radio in future iPods, and I don't mean just the touch.

I don't know of any media player period that offers AM. (Tell me one if I'm missing it.)
But Apple won't include radio any more than it would include a buggy whip.
Radio (as I grew up with it) is dead... corporate, homogenized garbage. PBS is great but I podcast that.
post #48 of 269
The video was a bit blurry. The response to the accelerometer looks better than on an iPhone, but there were a few times the screen just didn't respond to input.

I think the hardware looks good - I don't mind the screws, they fit the design nicely and give it a cool, industrial edge.
post #49 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.J. Adequate View Post

Yeah, cause all those subscription sites have really taken off. Amazon has taken a bigger share away from iTunes than all the subscription music-rental services combined.

And one of those useless apps, Simplify, allows me to stream music over WiFi and 3G from my main computer. So they are not all fart apps.

Say what you will about music subscription sites, but their subscriber numbers are still in the millions. The only reason they really haven't "taken off" is because none of them worked with the iPod.

But the Zune Marketplace is fast catching up, especially now that you get to keep 10 DRM free songs per month, effectively making the subscription $5 per month.

The best thing about the non-Apple and Amazon music sites is that, when they upgraded beyond 128kbps (years before Apple did), they upgraded their users files free of charge. None of this 30c per song BS that Apple is trying to push. I'd stopped buying music from Apple years ago because I finally realized I was paying just as much for music as I would if I had bought the CD, but even now at 256Kbps, the quality is nowhere near what you get with a CD.

At least a music subscription allows you access to all of the ad-free music you could want, and at a higher bitrate than Pandora and other streaming radio.

I've also tried Simplify on my iPhone. First of all, I don't see a reason to leave any of my computers running when I'm out of the house. Second, the iPhone's headphone out quality is easily the worst of all of Apple's portable media devices and is nowhere near the quality of output of my 80GB 5.5G iPod. So its essentially useless both because of poor audio quality and the fact that the App itself and the entire process is so uintuitive its more of a pain in the ass than "simple".
post #50 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

..., I think it is still early to say Vista has failed.

Actually, it's a bit late to be talking about Vista at all.

Windows 7 (Vista 1.5) will be out in a matter of months and Microsoft has already said they will discontinue Vista sales when Windows 7 hits the shelves.

Those few that prefer Vista over Windows 7 will be offered a free downgrade, just as Vista buyers today are offered a free downgrade to Windows XP.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
Reply
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
Reply
post #51 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Also, it's deemed unlikely that Microsoft will ever have the app support Apple can claim for its iPod.

Unlikely...yes. However, if somehow this thing turns out to be a hit, anything is possible. After all, MS is pretty much the biggest company out there when it comes to computers. I'm not going to quote any kind of market share, but I'm willing to bet that MS/Windows has the vast majority of the worldwide PC market covered.
post #52 of 269
Quote:
I think it is still early to say Vista has failed.

Considering that windows 7 is already on torrents I'd say Vista is essentially dead.
post #53 of 269
Should be good to see this hooked up to the Fusion Hybrid with SYNC that Ford just gave Ballmer



That being said, can't wait to see the OLED screen in person!
post #54 of 269
i really like the transition to radio... wish all of the others were like that. [and why aren't they consistent] not so impressed with the gaussian blurr/hard crop on the item at the top. pretty smoooth...

ohh, BTW, neither this nor the pre use multi touch. there is no infringement. it's all touch and swipe one finger gestures. no pinch, twist, etc. apple couldn't patent everything. [that's a good thing btw].
post #55 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post

I don't think it is better than the iPod, but do like the idea of a radio tuner built in. HD is too new for a lot of people to benefit, plus no AM. AM HD could be sweet. I hope Apple gets with the program and includes radio in future iPods, and I don't mean just the touch.

You're kidding right? I've sided w steve on this one. If you're serious enough about your music to get a devise to take it with you then when/why would you listen to the same 20 songs and ads and idiot dj's on the radio? if I need news/weather/sports/traffic .... there's an app for that too!
post #56 of 269
I'd go as far to say, more people might be using the Win7 Beta/RC right now than Vista.

As for the Zune, it looks like a decent device, I think how well it does is really going to depend on price. Its more a pure PMP than the Jack of all trades iPod touch, so Microsoft is going undercut Apple on price. Ironically enough, Apple also has the one up on the gaming situation.
post #57 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

Well, even if the product is a sales failure like all previous Zune models, you really have to admit that they are catching up. MS can afford to fail forever on this thing, and in about 2 years time, it will start to surpass the iPod Touch. I expected it to be longer than 2 years, but it doesn't seem like it. MS really learned quick from Apple and MS has the money to fund the failures for as long as it takes.

Where do you get your data for those numbers? That's a pretty ridiculous statement. Sure... MS will surpass the iPOD Touch in 2 years... if Apple stops creating products and starts selling livestock. In two years, the iPOD Touch will be insignificant compared to the next product that is around (whether it is an Apple product or somebody else). Microsoft has been dumping money into the Zune for years and they still can't sell the thing. This new ZUNE HD will cost as much as an iPOD Touch but will have less storage, less features, no apps, no e-mail, no web browser. It's just going to be another crappy mp3 player with a radio built in.

You sound like a guy that told me Apple would be gone in 10 years back in 1998. I'm sorry but great companies evolve and tweak their business plan. Microsoft can't fart without a committee of people approving it first. By the time they get around to making a decision, they have missed the boat.

You can't blame Microsoft for sucking, it's just part of being a big company.
post #58 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosx View Post

Say what you will about music subscription sites, but their subscriber numbers are still in the millions. The only reason they really haven't "taken off" is because none of them worked with the iPod.

I disagree. I think they haven't taken off because no one really wants them other than music industry executives. Millions hasn't been enough to make any of them profitable. But we shall see. (However, as a longtime music collector, I will never use one. My personal favorite service is eMusic, since it caters to my obscure tastes. Even then, I often buy a physical copy of those albums I really like.)

I do notice for someone that claims to have a MacBook and and iPhone, all 10 of your posts are pro-Microsoft rants. So I have a feeling any arguments I made would fall on deaf ears. I wonder why you haven't just bought a Dell.
post #59 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Actually, it's a bit late to be talking about Vista at all.

Windows 7 (Vista 1.5) will be out in a matter of months and Microsoft has already said they will discontinue Vista sales when Windows 7 hits the shelves.

Those few that prefer Vista over Windows 7 will be offered a free downgrade, just as Vista buyers today are offered a free downgrade to Windows XP.

I missed to see any info on MS plans to discontinue Vista so quickly. It does make sense having only one new OS to support, though... but MS has a history about announcing discontinuation and prolonging product's life afterwards.

7 will do great with home/multimedia requirements, but businesses still might decide to go Vista instead of 7 for their next upgrade. Having US Army choosing Vista is helping Vista's image a bit, IMHO, and with SP2 released, Vista in many eyes does finally look mature and reliable.

At the end, I wouldn't be surprised to see Vista stacking up to Windows 7 in a same way 2000 did to XP. I don't know what was it like in US, but in New Zealand, Windows 2000 was common in businesses for years after XP was introduced, and common opinion was that 2000, while less flashy and less multimedia oriented, is more suitable for office, with better stability and no-nonsense approach. Eventually, of course, XP outlived 2000 by a margin.
post #60 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Actually, it's a bit late to be talking about Vista at all.

Yep, the quick turn around on Windows 7and dropping the Vista nametells you all you need to know about how Microsoft feels about it. Like Bob or ME, this version of Windows will not go down in history as one of MS's better moves.
post #61 of 269
Uhhhhh!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!! What a great achievement MS. That's magnifico!! Thank you for giving us a product that is so revolutionary and unique. Completely new concept. I like it.
post #62 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.J. Adequate View Post

I disagree. I think they haven't taken off because no one really wants them other than music industry executives. Millions hasn't been enough to make any of them profitable. But we shall see. (However, as a longtime music collector, I will never use one. My personal favorite service is eMusic, since it caters to my obscure tastes. Even then, I often buy a physical copy of those albums I really like.)

I do notice for someone that claims to have a MacBook and and iPhone, all 10 of your posts are pro-Microsoft rants. So I have a feeling any arguments I made would fall on deaf ears. I wonder why you haven't just bought a Dell.

I think many who don't "get subscriptions" perhaps aren't looking at things in the right way. I use rhapsody to EXPLORE music, build new playlists, and then from there (if I really like an album/group/artist(s)) I buy the song/album/whatever.

There's a lot music that I may find interest in, but don't necessarily want to buy. This is where (imho) subscriptions work very well for me. Yes, I'm paying a monthly fee, but considering I have over 4 million tracks at my fingertips, which btw I don't necessarily want to buy RIGHT NOW, I can still listen, create playlists, and do what I want with them (except for transferring them to my iPhone/iPod).

I'm not saying that subscriptions work for everyone, but they do work for a lot of consumers. Yes, millions. If Apple added this to iTunes (which I still haven't seen a good reason why not, if you don't want to subscribe, then BUY IT), they would completely and totally own the market and block off any competitors.

w00master
post #63 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by donlphi View Post

Where do you get your data for those numbers? That's a pretty ridiculous statement. Sure... MS will surpass the iPOD Touch in 2 years... if Apple stops creating products and starts selling livestock. In two years, the iPOD Touch will be insignificant compared to the next product that is around (whether it is an Apple product or somebody else). Microsoft has been dumping money into the Zune for years and they still can't sell the thing. This new ZUNE HD will cost as much as an iPOD Touch but will have less storage, less features, no apps, no e-mail, no web browser. It's just going to be another crappy mp3 player with a radio built in.

You sound like a guy that told me Apple would be gone in 10 years back in 1998. I'm sorry but great companies evolve and tweak their business plan. Microsoft can't fart without a committee of people approving it first. By the time they get around to making a decision, they have missed the boat.

You can't blame Microsoft for sucking, it's just part of being a big company.

This player has a browser. It will ship with email and the app store is already in progress. Look at this thing carefully, it really has caught up and in some cases surpassed the iPod Touch.
post #64 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosx View Post


Honestly, who cares? All but a couple dozen apps in the App Store are junk anyway. The last thing the Zune, iPod touch, or iPhone needs is a million fart apps, 99c games that are good for nothing other than saying "okay thats amusing", and all of the other useless junk currently in the App Store.

Isn't that subjective?

There's almost a page of apps that have been helpful to me for work alone. Mileage trackers, expense trackers, task management...

I can't/won't leave my iphone if only because it would change my whole routine and I wouldn't have all that information on hand.

Calling it junk is just an opinion, and one that isn't widely held.
post #65 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Screws on the back? Maybe the memory is held in place by nails.

But remember, it's physically beautiful. Some people will want to sleep with it.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #66 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

Well, even if the product is a sales failure like all previous Zune models, you really have to admit that they are catching up. MS can afford to fail forever on this thing, and in about 2 years time, it will start to surpass the iPod Touch. I expected it to be longer than 2 years, but it doesn't seem like it. MS really learned quick from Apple and MS has the money to fund the failures for as long as it takes.

LOL, you keep thinking that.

Right, TWO MORE YEARS for MS. And two more. And two more, and two more . . .
post #67 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfyearsun View Post

Isn't that subjective?

There's almost a page of apps that have been helpful to me for work alone. Mileage trackers, expense trackers, task management...

I can't/won't leave my iphone if only because it would change my whole routine and I wouldn't have all that information on hand.

Calling it junk is just an opinion, and one that isn't widely held.

I've got to agree. I've got four pages of apps on my iPod touch that I use DAILY -- most of them were free, but I pay for the ones that I deem worthy of my $$$. In fact, one of my favorite apps is Road Trip Lite. It's almost like a game to me to see if I can beat my the MPG I got on the previous fill-up -- and yesterday, I won

post #68 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.J. Adequate View Post

Yep, the quick turn around on Windows 7and dropping the Vista nametells you all you need to know about how Microsoft feels about it. Like Bob or ME, this version of Windows will not go down in history as one of MS's better moves.

It is all well known, yet, US Army decided to put Vista on almost 750,000 desktops by the end of this year. And I don't think Army will do another upgrade any time soon... so Vista is there to stay.

Strange, isn't it? Maybe Army actually wants an OS that is obscure in public. It might end up like having an exclusive OS only for them...
post #69 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by w00master View Post

I think many who don't "get subscriptions" perhaps aren't looking at things in the right way...

I'm not saying that subscriptions work for everyone, but they do work for a lot of consumers. Yes, millions. If Apple added this to iTunes (which I still haven't seen a good reason why not, if you don't want to subscribe, then BUY IT), they would completely and totally own the market and block off any competitors.

w00master

Not a bad take. This makes the subscription services less a competitor to iTunes and Amazon, and more a competitor to Satellite Radio.

But it shares another distinction with Satellite Radio, both are struggling to make a profit on their business model. They drop prices low to attract customers, but not enough have come in yet.

Apple's in a good place, right now. They could do subscriptions now, but it would muddy their message and add to their costs. But if condition changes, and the big labels agree, it wouldn't be too hard to create a sister service.

In the end, as always, the market will decide. But it's fun to try to guess.
post #70 of 269
I'm curious to know how long this device was in development as compared to what we are to expect as Apple's follow-up (answer) with the Touch at the WWDC. Hmmm, I kinda liked what I saw, but the video was horrible.
post #71 of 269
I always felt the delay with screen rotation on the iPhone/iPod Touch was intentional in case you only turned the device momentarily and didn't actually want the screen to turn... but I do find it to be unreliable at times and the delay does give the impression that it's "slow to respond."
post #72 of 269
I am waiting for MS to lead, not follow. The UI currently in the iPhone/Zune HD should have been done by MS years ago, given their wallet.

With their R&D budget about as big as Apple rakes in in revenues, I expect them to make UIs that presage your intent and blow things other than your socks off.

I don't know why everyone is excited about something that's already been done magnificently by Apple 2 years ago.

As they say, Redmond has fired up their copiers yet again.
post #73 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

I don't know of any media player period that offers AM. (Tell me one if I'm missing it.)
But Apple won't include radio any more than it would include a buggy whip.
Radio (as I grew up with it) is dead... corporate, homogenized garbage. PBS is great but I podcast that.

So we grew up at the same time. NPR is great and in even small communities (Southern Oregon) it is live and local and even HD ... AM HD. This is the only radio I know of that includes AM. As an audio only player, it rocks.
http://www.ccrane.com/radios/am-fm-r...c-witness.aspx

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimerl View Post

You're kidding right? I've sided w steve on this one. If you're serious enough about your music to get a devise to take it with you then when/why would you listen to the same 20 songs and ads and idiot dj's on the radio? if I need news/weather/sports/traffic .... there's an app for that too!

Do they have an app for SF Giants baseball on KNBR? I think not.
post #74 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by WPLJ42 View Post

I don't think it is better than the iPod, but do like the idea of a radio tuner built in. HD is too new for a lot of people to benefit, plus no AM. AM HD could be sweet. I hope Apple gets with the program and includes radio in future iPods, and I don't mean just the touch.

Ok, so it's a bit pricey (this is Apple, after all), and doesn't work with the touch according to Apple's store, but here ya go:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MA...mco=NDcwMzE1Mg
post #75 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

It is all well known, yet, US Army decided to put Vista on almost 750,000 desktops by the end of this year. And I don't think Army will do another upgrade any time soon... so Vista is there to stay.

Strange, isn't it? Maybe Army actually wants an OS that is obscure in public. It might end up like having an exclusive OS only for them...

In 2003 (the last data I could easily find) nearly 450 Million computers were sold in the USA alone. 750,000 thousand is impressive for a single sale, but it's really only a drop in the bucket. Especially if you consider computers in use, not just those sold.

That said, with SP2 things could yet turn around. But I still hold MS knew what they are doing when they chose to bury the Vista name with Windows 7. I'd argue Vista, as a brand, has fizzled; even if the OS ideas behind it really live on.
post #76 of 269
Strangely, the only thing that appealed to me in that video was the FM radio function. Still would prefer Apple to incorporate some radio function for my iPod touch for variety and keeping up to date on the news. It's inconvenient to rely on podcasts for news, especially if there is no nearby WiFi to leech off.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #77 of 269
Fact of the matter is, the music labels want to make as much profit as possible, to do that they must remove Apples stranglehold on the ability to be the main distributor of music. Then make the companies compete on who will take the largest losses an give the labels as much money as possible. As per why many sites were DRM free before iTunes. Also subscription based has its perks, however I prefer things like spotify for that sort of thing.

As for quality wise, Im assuming your music is still on vinyl, for its ability to reproduce frequencies outside of the normal human audible levels, sit in a soundproof room and ensure that you control your breathing? Coming from being a manager of a radio station I have heard many an argument of quality this and frequency that. At the end of the day 99% of people cannot tell the difference, and when asked blind, usually prefer MP3 over CD or vinyl. So from my personal I believe largish experience in that area 256Kbps ACC will suit me well thanks, afterall my iPod plays it and it sounds good over the city noise!
post #78 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayfarer View Post

You better like it! Or chairs will fly.


We can lick um.
post #79 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

This player has a browser. It will ship with email and the app store is already in progress. Look at this thing carefully, it really has caught up and in some cases surpassed the iPod Touch.

Well, according to the info (interview with the product manager) here: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/...-microsoft.ars the browser is IE6 (so, nothing that should be called a browser), there is no email client and they say that they do not want to duplicate work being done for the Windows Mobile platform (the Zune HD runs a multi-touch version of Windows CE and not Windows Mobile - there is not even a SDK for CE with multi-touch), so: no App Store. It also has no PIM functionality (calendars, contacts, tasks), no maps, no YouTube... it is basically a better looking Zune with a bigger and better screen. HD radio does almost not exist internationally, and why somebody owning a Xbox would use the Zune to watch HD content on a TV set slightly escapes me (unless used as a replacement while the Xbox is out for its bi-monthly repair).

I think it was no good idea to announce the device that early. The more time people will have to compare functionality to the touch, the less likely they are to buy it.
post #80 of 269
great concept prototype. Let's hope for the real thing to avoid horrible design flaws and UI design mistakes.
Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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