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North Carolina greets Apple and $1 billion server farm project

post #1 of 21
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Just one day after North Carolina lawmakers approved changes to the state’s corporate tax laws designed to lure Apple and a $1 billion server farm project to one of their rural communities, the state's Governor signed Senate Bill 575 into law and announced that the iPhone maker is coming to town.

“North Carolina continues to be a prime location for growing and expanding global technology companies," said Governor Beverly Perdue. "We welcome Apple to North Carolina and look forward to working with the company as it begins providing a significant economic boost to local communities and the state."

Senate Bill 575 was structured to give a single company -- identified last month as Apple -- a tax break of up to $46 million over the next 10 years, assuming that company reaches its $1 billion investment target within nine years of beginning the project, provides health insurance for its local employees, meets a wage standard, and foregoes other state grants or tax breaks.

Should Apple's server farm remain active for three decades, corporate tax breaks could exceed $300 million, according to estimates outlined by North Carolina's legislature. At least 50 full-time employees will staff the facility. Over time, the investment of $1 billion would create more than 3,000 jobs in the local area, as estimated by the North Carolina Department of Commerce. This type of facility would require local services, such as building and HVAC maintenance, landscaping, and other services, leading to an expansion of the local economy.

Though the exact location of the planned server farm has not yet been announced, the legislation dictates that it must be located in a Tier 1 or Tier 2 economically-distressed area. Apple has reportedly been considering two sites in western North Carolina to house the server farm, which is expected to support the staggering growth of its iTunes and App Store digital download services: Catawba and Cleveland counties, both of which have unemployment rates north of 15 percent.

Catawba County officials have reportedly been touting several sites off Route 321 for their fiber and power infrastructure in an effort to market those locations as viable data center lots. One site is a 183-acre tract in Maiden known as Catawba Data Park, which may suit Apple’s reported desire for a multi-facility campus setting.

“During these tough economic times, it’s important to make the investments that create jobs in areas that need them the most,” said Governor Perdue.
post #2 of 21
Very nice for NC. And especially in this eocnomy.
post #3 of 21
ok doesn't anybody watch the movies?? At first seems like good idea for putting computers all together. But eventually the robots get "powerhungry" and start making other angry robots. Then its a struggle, MAN VERSUS MACHINES!! robots will not stop until we are all just working for them, giving them oil like that one in wizard of oz (he seemed an ok guy but secretly wanted ultimate power)


On the other hand, if we are to be slaves to a race of robot overlords, I hope they will be based on Snow Leopard and include features like OpenCL and Grand Central.
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post #4 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by - J B 7 2 - View Post

ok doesn't anybody watch the movies?? At first seems like good idea for putting computers all together. But eventually the robots get "powerhungry" and start making other angry robots. Then its a struggle, MAN VERSUS MACHINES!! robots will not stop until we are all just working for them, giving them oil like that one in wizard of oz (he seemed an ok guy but secretly wanted ultimate power)


On the other hand, if we are to be slaves to a race of robot overlords, I hope they will be based on Snow Leopard and include features like OpenCL and Grand Central.



the software on the site (the software!) just demanded my post be at least five characters. that's ironic in context, no???

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post #5 of 21
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Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Very nice for NC. And especially in this eocnomy.

Most definitely. I just hope that out-of-state/county businesses aren't going to trump the local businesses who will benefit from this.
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post #6 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Most definitely. I just hope that out-of-state/county businesses aren't going to trump the local businesses who will benefit from this.

That's kind of the drawback for this kind of incentive. These incentives help the companies big enough to make a significant impact, but leave out the numerous smaller ones whose combined economic impact may well add up to several times that of Google.
post #7 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That's kind of the drawback for this kind of incentive. These incentives help the companies big enough to make a significant impact, but leave out the numerous smaller ones whose combined economic impact may well add up to several times that of Google.

I just want to say that it's kind of sick that children have inadequate resources to have basic necessities (in effect, their taxes are too high) and local poor families, same. Meanwhile a huge wealthy firm like apple gets to engage in tax competition so they don't have to pay taxes like everyone else. Apple isn't the first company to do it. But tax competition is an elitist activity that gives megafirms a structural advantage they don't even need. There is
Something wrong about that. If an NC entrepreneur wanted the same tax treatment, I doubt they would get it.
post #8 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

I just want to say that it's kind of sick that children have inadequate resources to have basic necessities (in effect, their taxes are too high) and local poor families, same. Meanwhile a huge wealthy firm like apple gets to engage in tax competition so they don't have to pay taxes like everyone else. Apple isn't the first company to do it. But tax competition is an elitist activity that gives megafirms a structural advantage they don't even need. There is
Something wrong about that. If an NC entrepreneur wanted the same tax treatment, I doubt they would get it.

Use Protection. Stop popping out kids beyond your means.
post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Use Protection. Stop popping out kids beyond your means.

So, poor people shouldn't have children? Sterilization is a cost-effective form of protection. Would you be a proponent of that, too?
post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muncie View Post

So, poor people shouldn't have children?

People who can’t afford to have children should not have children. I find it amazing that it’s difficult to adopt a child or get a building permit, but anyone can pop out kids or get inseminated at their leisure. I find the octo-mom’s, as well as her doctor, to be criminals.
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post #11 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Use Protection. Stop popping out kids beyond your means.

That doesn't address anything else in the argument.
post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

I just want to say that it's kind of sick that children have inadequate resources to have basic necessities (in effect, their taxes are too high) and local poor families, same. Meanwhile a huge wealthy firm like apple gets to engage in tax competition so they don't have to pay taxes like everyone else. Apple isn't the first company to do it. But tax competition is an elitist activity that gives megafirms a structural advantage they don't even need. There is
Something wrong about that. If an NC entrepreneur wanted the same tax treatment, I doubt they would get it.


don't worrty dude
apple will give back 10 times more that they get.
apple will also build more farms down south .

i am happy for SC

and apple


9
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post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That's kind of the drawback for this kind of incentive. These incentives help the companies big enough to make a significant impact, but leave out the numerous smaller ones whose combined economic impact may well add up to several times that of Google.

I don't think there are really any mom and pop server farms, right?

As long as Apple uses local contractors, workers, etc. and the Apple employees frequent local businesses, I don't think you can argue that this particular deal is a bad thing for anyone.
post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by meelash View Post

I don't think there are really any mom and pop server farms, right?

Just server farms? Why look at it in such a narrow manner?

Quote:
As long as Apple uses local contractors, workers, etc. and the Apple employees frequent local businesses, I don't think you can argue that this particular deal is a bad thing for anyone.

The issue is special treatment given to the very largest businesses, not that the investment is a bad one.
post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

The issue is special treatment given to the very largest businesses...

Kinda like if you walk into Mercedes dealership driving a Hyundai and they don't let you take a test drive on your own. But, if you walk into a Maserati dealership driving a Mercedes, they hand you the keys and tell you to enjoy?

Money and power always carries weight, always has, always will. Everybody from Solomon to Stalin knew that.
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post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

People who cant afford to have children should not have children. I find it amazing that its difficult to adopt a child or get a building permit, but anyone can pop out kids or get inseminated at their leisure. I find the octo-moms, as well as her doctor, to be criminals.

Agreed. Want to save the world? STOP F*KING INCREASING THE HUMAN POPULATION. 1 LESS HUMAN = A HECK OF A LOT LESS CARBON EMISSIONS CAUSED. Plant a tree = good. Change your lightbulb to energy saving = good. NOT HAVING KIDS = much better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muncie View Post

So, poor people shouldn't have children? Sterilization is a cost-effective form of protection. Would you be a proponent of that, too?

As much as I would like to support widespread sterilization, the right to bear a child remains in my mind a fundamental human right. I just wish a lot less people would exercise this right.
post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Just server farms? Why look at it in such a narrow manner?



The issue is special treatment given to the very largest businesses, not that the investment is a bad one.

I would agree that tax incentives normally do no good . Except for apple . Apple will be a great friend to SC.

When the summer is in and the bass are jumping >>>apple and SC will do some flyfishing together..

Lemonade anyone ?
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post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzDots View Post

Kinda like if you walk into Mercedes dealership driving a Hyundai and they don't let you take a test drive on your own. But, if you walk into a Maserati dealership driving a Mercedes, they hand you the keys and tell you to enjoy?

Money and power always carries weight, always has, always will. Everybody from Solomon to Stalin knew that.

Money does carry weight, but I don't see where your example of private party behavior justifies giving special tax breaks from a government.
post #19 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Money does carry weight, but I don't see where your example of private party behavior justifies giving special tax breaks from a government.

I agree with you, in the most perfect of worlds all people/entities would be dealt with on a level playing field. This has never been the case, and I would bet never will - especially on the "grand scale" of government.

Elected officials ALWAYS have an agenda, so government is "what we make it"

In this particular case maybe another, better example is - when the kid who owns the ball goes home...
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post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

I just want to say that it's kind of sick that children have inadequate resources to have basic necessities (in effect, their taxes are too high) and local poor families, same. Meanwhile a huge wealthy firm like apple gets to engage in tax competition so they don't have to pay taxes like everyone else. Apple isn't the first company to do it. But tax competition is an elitist activity that gives megafirms a structural advantage they don't even need. There is
Something wrong about that. If an NC entrepreneur wanted the same tax treatment, I doubt they would get it.

Based on recent research, our rural area of South Dakota & Minnesota is shrinking at 1% per year and has been for over a decade. Jobs are leaving and with them our population. Jobs are leaving with larger farm machinery, more computer control of our small industry functions and more reliable vehicles, etc.

We would welcome a reliable employer to our area and gladly pay the taxes with the wages we earn. A 100% of nothing is still nothing. Our population needs work or they will leave. We need people who know how to create and manage businesses. If we had them now we would be a growing rather than shrinking population. We lack those skills now. Send us your wealthy, people tend to do what they have done before. The wealthy will continue to work if they can get more wealth and when they do they will create industry which brings cash to our area. A rising tide floats all ships.

We would like to have 50% more wealthy people in rural America. If your in an area that wants to raise the taxes on the wealthy, save your energy, send us your wealthy and you can keep the poverty stricken we have too many now.

Jim
post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Agreed. Want to save the world? STOP F*KING INCREASING THE HUMAN POPULATION. 1 LESS HUMAN = A HECK OF A LOT LESS CARBON EMISSIONS CAUSED. Plant a tree = good. Change your lightbulb to energy saving = good. NOT HAVING KIDS = much better.

You anti-human humanists need to update your cause and whines du jour: The world is now facing a long-term demographic IMPLOSION which will have far-reaching economic, political and other consequences - and hardly all positive.

Italy and France, among other countries are PAYING couples to have children. And it's not just the developed world, but also developing countries like Thailand, Estonia and Armenia have dropped far below the stable replacement rate of two plus children per family (more than two since not everyone does - or can - reproduce).

Demographers estimate that when the rate drops to 1.3 (as it's done/is doing in MANY countries) the implosion is irreversible for at least four generations. The only true exception in the developed world is the US, but that's not because our multi-generational Americans are having kids, rather because of immigration and high birth rates among new immigrants.

http://www.newamerica.net/publicatio...8203;implosion
www.csmonitor.com/2004/1007/​p16s02-cogn.html

Quote:
it's kind of sick that children have inadequate resources to have basic necessities (in effect, their taxes are too high) and local poor families, same. Meanwhile a huge wealthy firm like apple gets to engage in tax competition so they don't have to pay taxes like everyone else.

As for bemoaning Apple getting "unfair tax breaks" for a project which will bring (state income, sales and property tax paying) jobs to an underdeveloped area, first, it's NOT only giant corps who get these if you look around the country, as this happens all the time for projects of various sizes.

Second, Apple will be pumping money into many area businesses, e.g., utilities for one that will increase general local prosperity and state tax collections. And the break is not permanent.

Third, these "breaks" are more properly considered "incentives" in a free market in a free country. Whereas your mentality considers all property and wealth to be "ours" (i.e., the government's), with high-minded commissars generously allowing us to keep a little.

There are reasons why Apple isn't building this in a similarly rural area in upstate NY where taxes have just been raised to record highs to support a bloated, top-heavy, unsustainable state gov't structure - because until you fairness freaks totally get your way, they still have the options to choose what will for best for them as a free agent run by free people.

And NC - just as NY - is still (in theory, as it's firmly in the grip of statists) free to decide how friendly they want to be to businesses. NY has (short-sightedly) chosen to be confiscatory and hostile, while NC has (wisely) chosen to be welcoming and friendly, and after the project's and Apple's established, to collect their full freight.

Third, the argument in the quote above is not only fallacious, but wrong. Over 40% of US citizens pay ZERO income tax these days, and even under the "evil Bush tax rates" the top 5% of earners pay over 40% of all taxes collected. Plus, ahem, small, unemployed children do NOT pay taxes (a tax incentive for Apple, which "costs" NC nothing, while stimulating, first, increased wealth for local contractors and builders among others and then for the permanent new jobs created, is NOT a tax, imputed or otherwise) on local residents.

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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