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Review roundup: Palm's Pre and its fledgeling WebOS

post #1 of 273
Thread Starter 
The embargo on Palms new Pre smartphone has lifted and multiple reviews are now online describing the highly-anticipated iPhone competitor, which goes on sale this Saturday, June 6 at Sprint, Best Buy, and Radio Shack stores across the U.S where it will fetch $199 after rebates and a two-year service commitment.

Concerns about the keyboard and battery life are common threads in many of the reviews, though most compliment the Pre's multi-tasking ability and subtle notification system. Additionally, it's evident that very few 3rd-party applications will be available at its launch.

The Wall Street Journal's Walt Mossberg
The Pre is "potentially the strongest iPhone rival to date, provided it attracts lots of third-party apps, which it sorely lacks at launch."
Its keyboard is the Pres "biggest advantage over the iPhone."
The Pre comes with an over-the-air back-up service that backs up all of your data without requiring any input from the user.
Video and music synchronization is done through iTunes. Palm "figured how to make iTunes think a Pre is an iPhone or iPod, and the software acts accordingly" which "worked perfectly."
At launch, the Pres answer to Apples App Store the App Catalog only contains about 12 apps and is the Pres "biggest disadvantage." During Mossbergs testing, downloading an app made his Pre "crash disastrously" causing all of his data to be erased and the Pre was not able to connect to any wireless network.
Mossberg talks about the expected iPhone and the upcoming 3.0 firmware in his review, noting, "the new iPhone to be unveiled next week will have a lot of added features," and "I expect to see an iPhone with up to 32 gigabytes of memory, video recording, a higher-resolution camera, a compass, and a great operating speed."
The least expensive voice and data plan for the Pre matches the cost of the iPhones on AT&T at $70 per month, but Sprint includes unlimited text messaging, whereas this is an extra cost with AT&T.
New York Times' David Pogue
The Pre is "exactly the right size. Its smaller than the iPhone... and therefore more comfortable as a phone."
The unlimited voice, data, and messaging plan from Sprint costs "$240 a year less than AT&T."
Despite having tiny keys, Pogue found it "faster and less frustrating than typing on glass."
The Pres new WebOS operating system is "attractive, fluid and exciting." Compared to the iPhone, multitasking is possible.
Though the Pre has a user-replaceable battery unlike the iPhone its battery life is "the Pres heartbreaker." The battery in Pogues Pre usually died in the late afternoon or evening.
While Pogue feels that the Pre is a "spectacular achievement," he also notes that the iPhone isnt going away" and that "Apples lead of 20 million phones will only grow when the new iPhone 3.0 software (and, presumably, a third iPhone model) come out shortly."
Pogue doesnt feel the Pre is perfect, describing that "opening certain programs can be very slow," and that "theres no progress bar or hourglass to let you know that its still working." Additionally, its not possible to expand the Pres internal storage, no visual voicemail to match the iPhone, and the universal search function "wont look through your e-mail or calendars."
USA Today's Ed Baig
Baig found the Pre "easy on the eyes," and "cant think of a more comfortable cell phone" in his hand.
Baig notes the touchscreen gesture similarities between the Pre and iPhone, but describes that "what sets the Pre apart is the way it lets you keep multiple live applications open at once..."
The Pre was not without faults, and Baig "encountered occasional sluggishness and bugs." He experienced problems with the clock and icons "dancing around." Despite the Pres more subtle notifications method, Baig still wished for visual voicemail, as did David Pogue.
Baig notes that theres no on-screen virtual keyboard to supplement the physical slide-out one, and that "at times, I would have liked the option..."
Though its possible to sync media via iTunes, buying music from iTunes on the Pre is not possible. However, the Pre is "integrated with the Amazon MP3 store, so you can sample and purchase songs on the fly." Similar to behavior in earlier iPhone firmware versions, the Pre must be on a Wi-Fi network to download music, though it can be previewed while on Sprints cellular network.
At launch, the Pre doesnt have a leg up on the iPhone in one area: "The browser doesnt support the Adobe Flash video standard. Palm and Adobe hope to deliver the capability in the future."
Overall, Baig feels that "Palm has delivered a device that will keep it in the game and give it a chance to star in it."

The Associated Press' Peter Svensson
The AP review of the Palm Pre is replete for praise for the device, claiming it is a "remarkable achievement" and that it "makes the iPhone look clunky."
The Synergy concept that pulls your PIM data from sources such as Google and Facebook is described as "very cool." Hardware-wise, the Pre is "well put together, but not exceptional."
Battery life was seen as an issue, prompting dismay after the battery died with "less than 24 hours of light use out of it." One cause is a "bug that drains the battery if your Google instant-messaging account is connected to your AOL Instant Messenger account." Palm is planning a fix for this bug.
The Pres keyboard "isnt the best" but is "much easier to use than the iPhones onscreen keyboard."
Amazingly, the AP preferred the Pres 3-megapixel camera "over the 8-megapixel one in the Sony Ericsson C905" since the Pres has "very little shutter lag."
CNet's Bonnie Cha
Overall, CNet was "impressed with the Palm WebOS" but found that there were "some hardware and performance issues" as well as "a few missing features."
Most notably missing are video recording and voice dialing, though "Palm has said that these features can be added later through an over-the-air update."
The Pres multi-tasking ability with its cards concept and its unique notification system are "what makes it special and they are areas where the Pre beats the iPhone or any smartphone on the market right now."
Like David Pogue, Cha found the battery life to be poor, which, combined with the Pres sluggishness, causes her to think its not "the best device for business users or road warriors."
Cha praised the Pres screen, claiming that its "one of the main highlights of the phone." Though its slightly smaller than the iPhones at 3.1 inches measured diagonally, Cha says its "on par with, if not just slightly crisper looking than, the iPhones screen."
Though its user interface is "very sleek and fresh," the Pre "isnt the most intuitive device to use, at least at first."
Like other reviewers, Cha found the Pres keyboard to be small and "clearly not as easy to use as a Blackberry or some of Samsungs and Nokias QWERTY devices..."
Users who want to sync PIM data from a Mac or PC desktop client will need to take a few additional steps to first sync their data to a Google account, which will then need to be linked to the Pre. Current Treo or other Palm phone users can take advantage of a free download from Palm, the Data Transfer Assistant, that will do a one-time transfer of data from your desktop PIM application.
Other reviews

For those interested, Gizmodo, Engadget and PCWorld have also weighed in on the Pre with their own reviews.
post #2 of 273
Can't wait to get one in the palm of my hand. Muuuuuooooaaaaaahhh!
post #3 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Can't wait to get one in the palm of my hand. Muuuuuooooaaaaaahhh!

haha... I knew all the clamoring about video capture was a stunt.
post #4 of 273
I've quoted this article here before:

http://247wallst.com/2009/04/15/twel...ill-disappear/

so let's see who will be laughing at the end of the year.
post #5 of 273
i've read they are still having a lot of problems with the SDK that accesses the hardware for things like games. supposedly it crashes the phone to the point where you have to restore your phone.

Apple has it's problems, but it's pretty close to Blizzard in that they don't put out beta products most of the time. or they don't hype features they don't plan to fully implement for another year or so
post #6 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

haha... I knew all the clamoring about video capture was a stunt.

No video capture, no Adobe Flash. If a 600GHz device with 256MB RAM from a company with a long history of smartphone and PDA knowledge cant do it, it makes you wonder how Steve Jobs was able to keep that from appearing in the Pre. He must have since weve been informed for 2 years by certain people here that its super easy to do. That must be why he took a 6 month hiatus, he was on a secret mission to sabotage the Pres super easy video recording and Abode Flash plugin.
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post #7 of 273
Well it's good to know that Palm have stopped totally messing up.

Also Mac users should feel comfortable with the rounded corners on the UI

As a new system the software will have flaws, as did/does the iPhone. Sadly all that matters is right now, and in a month or two that will put webOS some way behind. Not as behind as the awful WinMob based devices, but Android and Symbian will be kicking around.

Palm ought to license webOS for money, it might create a bigger market, and thus more software would be written, more people would buy, etc, etc.
post #8 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roos24 View Post

I've quoted this article here before:

http://247wallst.com/2009/04/15/twel...ill-disappear/

so let's see who will be laughing at the end of the year.

Ouch! You didn't have to kick them, everybody already knows they're down. Maybe I have a thing for underdogs, but I'd like to see the Pre at least keep Palm alive. They have made some good products in the (distant) past, after all.
post #9 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

No video capture, no Adobe Flash. If a 600GHz device with 256MB RAM from a company with a long history of smartphone and PDA knowledge cant do it, it makes you wonder how Steve Jobs was able to keep that from appearing in the Pre. He must have since weve been informed for 2 years by certain people here that its super easy to do. That must be why he took a 6 month hiatus, he was on a secret mission to sabotage the Pres super easy video recording and Abode Flash plugin.

lol, nice!
post #10 of 273
Engadget by far had the best review of them all. It was VERY thorough.

The operating system/interface appears top notch and the multi-tasking is the big seller for me. Too bad the build quality/materials aren't up to snuff.
post #11 of 273
Pre also comes free with Sprint Navigation (Telenav Maps) which provides turn-by-turn GPS navigation. Sprint TV is also included, though the channel selection is rather basic.

I wonder whether AT&T would provide its Telenav turn-by-turn GPS for free, seeing as we are paying more than Sprint customers will be paying. Unfortunately, I doubt AT&T would make such a move as it would kill the market for alternative turn-by-turn apps.
post #12 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

No video capture, no Adobe Flash. If a 600GHz device with 256MB RAM from a company with a long history of smartphone and PDA knowledge can’t do it, it makes you wonder how Steve Jobs was able to keep that from appearing in the Pre. He must have since we’ve been informed for 2 years by certain people here that it’s super easy to do. That must be why he took a 6 month hiatus, he was on a secret mission to sabotage the Pre’s super easy video recording and Abode Flash plugin.

I will give you my guess.

Video encoding and Flash playback requires heavy CPU usage, which Pre can handle, but will drain the battery in 40 minutes.

So, the only elegant solution is to do it in hardware. I will bet the new iPhone will have a MPEG-4 encoding chip in it.

Steve won't allow iPhone to do Flash for that reason. No other phone will do Flash (no matter how people moan and complain) for the same reason.

Pre costs more than iPhone to make. Apple gets the volume discount, and hardware keyboard costs extra. Palm/Sprint set the price at $199 (AR) at the last minute and hope some people won't send in the rebate forms. I will also bet there is no video encoding chip in Pre, and thus no video recording.
post #13 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

haha... I knew all the clamoring about video capture was a stunt.

Funny- right? No I just want to see it . Seems like it's decent for a first gen- you must agree. We can certainly give it a 2 year slack for video like the iPhone can't we?
post #14 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Engadget by far had the best review of them all. It was VERY thorough.

The operating system/interface appears top notch and the multi-tasking is the big seller for me. Too bad the build quality/materials aren't up to snuff.

I agree, the Engadget review was fantastic. Very much enjoyed that read, as it was extremely well written.

Honestly, all things considered, this looks like a fantastic device. I love my iPhone, but am objective enough to realize that the Pre does have it beat in many areas (just as the Pre is inferior in other areas). We'll see how the next iPhone changes the equation.

But for now, I salute Palm for coming out with such a device. It makes a mockery of both WinMo and RIMs OS.
post #15 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

No video capture, no Adobe Flash. If a 600GHz device with 256MB RAM from a company with a long history of smartphone and PDA knowledge cant do it, it makes you wonder how Steve Jobs was able to keep that from appearing in the Pre. He must have since weve been informed for 2 years by certain people here that its super easy to do. That must be why he took a 6 month hiatus, he was on a secret mission to sabotage the Pres super easy video recording and Abode Flash plugin.

Apple the company that invented Quicktime - is that their excuse why they haven't had it?
post #16 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by iWork View Post

Pre also comes free with Sprint Navigation (Telenav Maps) which provides turn-by-turn GPS navigation. Sprint TV is also included, though the channel selection is rather basic.

I wonder whether AT&T would provide its Telenav turn-by-turn GPS for free, seeing as we are paying more than Sprint customers will be paying. Unfortunately, I doubt AT&T would make such a move as it would kill the market for alternative turn-by-turn apps.

I doubt it for TbT GPS, but U-Verse seems likely at some point, though for a fee. AT&T and Verizon dont have to offer the same low-cost deals that T-Mobile and Sprint are doing just to stay afloat. With T-Mobile being so big outside the US, its really just Sprint that is in trouble here.
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post #17 of 273
How many Smart Phone OS do we have now? iPhone, Blackberry, Windows Mobile, WebOS, Android, Symbian.....

Six major brands. It will get down to two or three in 5 years. All markets go through this consolidation.

Which three will survive? Blackberry and iPhone will, and the rest will fight for the last spot.

My prediction. Google will buy Palm and integrate the WebOS layer to Android, Both of them hare Linux based. Developers will have two ways to write apps for it - either through Google's Java SDK, or through WebOS's HTML/CSS/Javascript. The OS UI will use WebOS (since it looks much better than current Android).

If that happens, Android/WebOS will have a very good chance. If not, separately, neither of them will survive.
post #18 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Funny- right? No I just want to see it . Seems like it's decent for a first gen- you must agree. We can certainly give it a 2 year slack for video like the iPhone can't we?

Nice logic. Give the new guy on the block hell for not having video. Give the guy who has been in the game for ages a pass.
post #19 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

How many Smart Phone OS do we have now? iPhone, Blackberry, Windows Mobile, WebOS, Android, Symbian.....

Six major brands. It will get down to two or three in 5 years. All markets go through this consolidation.

Which three will survive? Blackberry and iPhone will, and the rest will fight for the last spot.

My prediction. Google will buy Palm and integrate the WebOS layer to Android, Both of them hare Linux based. Developers will have two ways to write apps for it - either through Google's Java SDK, or through WebOS's HTML/CSS/Javascript. The OS UI will use WebOS (since it looks much better than current Android).

If that happens, Android/WebOS will have a very good chance. If not, separately, neither of them will survive.

I like your prediction about Google buying WebOS and integrating it as an option part of the Android platform. Though I think that WinMo will live on simply because MS has the means to push it regardless of sales and that Nokia will either keep Symbian or move to a new OS that they create in-house. Nokia isnt out of this by a long shot and I respect their CEO for admitting that the iPhone took them by surprise and that they need to focus on a better OS and UI. I think that lack of hubris is a good omen for Nokias future.
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post #20 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Nice logic. Give the new guy on the block hell for not having video. Give the guy who has been in the game for ages a pass.

Apple invented Quicktime for god's sake! What the hell has Palm ever had to do with video?
post #21 of 273
So, the Pre's battery life sucks. What a surprise! Didn't Apple say all along that they could do multitasking on the iPhone, but battery life would be severely impacted, and that was a compromise that they didn't want to make? As Mr. Spock once said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." In this case, Apple is betting that "the many" represents basic phone use over the course of a day or two, and "the few" would be the few times that the ability to multitask would be handy. I think that's a reasonable bet. Also, the iPhone CAN multitask to a certain degree - how else can you listen to music in the background while playing a game or surfing the web.

Having said all of that, I'd like to see Palm succeed and stay in the game. More choice is always good for the consumer.
post #22 of 273
"The AP review of the Palm Pre is replete for praise for the device, claiming it is a "remarkable achievement" and that it "makes the iPhone look clunky."

Um no. The hardware and UI/OS of the iPhone is far from clunky. If he's talking about the OS, the OS is intuitive enough that a new user doesn't even need to pick up or read a manual to use it. If its hardware, this guy is nuts.
post #23 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeetime View Post

So, the Pre's battery life sucks. What a surprise! Didn't Apple say all along that they could do multitasking on the iPhone, but battery life would be severely impacted, and that was a compromise that they didn't want to make? As Mr. Spock once said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." In this case, Apple is betting that "the many" represents basic phone use over the course of a day or two, and "the few" would be the few times that the ability to multitask would be handy. I think that's a reasonable bet. Also, the iPhone CAN multitask to a certain degree - how else can you listen to music in the background while playing a game or surfing the web.

Having said all of that, I'd like to see Palm succeed and stay in the game. More choice is always good for the consumer.

Can you swap the Pre's battery? End of story.
post #24 of 273
The fuckups found in the OS were far fewer than I thought. I was actually surprised it did so well in the reviews.

Engadget says they got theirs to freeze up and restart a few times, but Mossberg's ability to have it crash completely, erasing all data, and fail at connecting to a network was unbelievable. In fact, I kind of don't believe it (being that it's coming from Mossberg.) Did he take photos to prove it? And for fucks sakes man, WHAT APP CAUSED IT? Mossberg says he downloaded "an app" that had his phone crash. You'd think he'd warn people what app that was.

All in all, I don't see this as a reason for iPhone users to switch, and I definitely don't see this phone as a reason for anyone to pay an ETF at their current provider to pickup with Sprint. The Pre should do well with current Sprint users and people who's contracts are up. I have a feeling though that most iphone contracts will be renewed lol.
post #25 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

How many Smart Phone OS do we have now? iPhone, Blackberry, Windows Mobile, WebOS, Android, Symbian.....

Six major brands. It will get down to two or three in 5 years. All markets go through this consolidation.

Which three will survive? Blackberry and iPhone will, and the rest will fight for the last spot.

My prediction. Google will buy Palm and integrate the WebOS layer to Android, Both of them hare Linux based. Developers will have two ways to write apps for it - either through Google's Java SDK, or through WebOS's HTML/CSS/Javascript. The OS UI will use WebOS (since it looks much better than current Android).

If that happens, Android/WebOS will have a very good chance. If not, separately, neither of them will survive.

I really like windows mobile, and many others do too. I don't think it's going to see it's end anytime soon.
post #26 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

The fuckups found in the OS were far fewer than I thought. I was actually surprised it did so well in the reviews.

Engadget says they got theirs to freeze up and restart a few times, but Mossberg's ability to have it crash completely, erasing all data, and fail at connecting to a network was unbelievable. In fact, I kind of don't believe it (being that it's coming from Mossberg.) Did he take photos to prove it? And for fucks sakes man, WHAT APP CAUSED IT? Mossberg says he downloaded "an app" that had his phone crash. You'd think he'd warn people what app that was.

All in all, I don't see this as a reason for iPhone users to switch, and I definitely don't see this phone as a reason for anyone to pay an ETF at their current provider to pickup with Sprint. The Pre should do well with current Sprint users and people who's contracts are up. I have a feeling though that most iphone contracts will be renewed lol.

Mossberg is an known iPhone fanboy, what would you expect?
post #27 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Can you swap the Pre's battery? End of story.

I don't miss lugging 2 batteries all over the place with me when I had Treos. Despite all the BS on the net, the iPhone battery last all day long at work. I've watched 3 movies on this to see how much the battery drains. Plenty of juice left after 3 movies. So no thanks to lugging around batteries. From my experiences with Palm from 650 to 700 series, their batteries are crap also. They don't even last a year.
post #28 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Mossberg is an iPhone fanboy, what do you expect?

LOL well I don't expect him to completely lie. He does go on to praise the backup system by saying "The good news is that the Pre's impressive backup system allowed me to quickly and easily get back almost all my data and to restore the phone's connectivity." So perhaps there isn't any deceit here.
post #29 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

I will give you my guess.

Video encoding and Flash playback requires heavy CPU usage, which Pre can handle, but will drain the battery in 40 minutes.

So, the only elegant solution is to do it in hardware. I will bet the new iPhone will have a MPEG-4 encoding chip in it.

The Cortex A8 has a SIMD unit - NEON, and the Pre uses an A8. Also many ARM SoCs include a DSP that can be programmed for these tasks.

I think the issue is that there are only so many things they can wrote software for at the same time, and this is a specialised task so understandable that it's not been done yet.

Whereas maybe the next iPhone will have a DSP/NEON/OpenCL Graphics/dedicated video hardware, and it will have had these units utilised for video encoding/decoding tasks.
post #30 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

The fuckups found in the OS were far fewer than I thought. I was actually surprised it did so well in the reviews.

Engadget says they got theirs to freeze up and restart a few times, but Mossberg's ability to have it crash completely, erasing all data, and fail at connecting to a network was unbelievable. In fact, I kind of don't believe it (being that it's coming from Mossberg.) Did he take photos to prove it? And for fucks sakes man, WHAT APP CAUSED IT? Mossberg says he downloaded "an app" that had his phone crash. You'd think he'd warn people what app that was.

All in all, I don't see this as a reason for iPhone users to switch, and I definitely don't see this phone as a reason for anyone to pay an ETF at their current provider to pickup with Sprint. The Pre should do well with current Sprint users and people who's contracts are up. I have a feeling though that most iphone contracts will be renewed lol.

See the iPhone can crash, but you will never lose all your data. It's well protected purposely. Palm is playing with fire on this. It's like the old Treo days, where the thing just crashes and I don't know why. Upon rebooting all data is gone. I hot sync twice a day just in case. Speaking of HotSync, that POS was never properly coded for the Mac. Palm pretty much treated Mac users 3rd class citizens with it.
post #31 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Mossberg is an iPhone fanboy, what do you expect?

Before you slam Mossberg, who are you to criticize him? Are you credentials as exemplary as Mossberg? No. Your just a troll scurrying out of a rock when you have an opportunity, then scurry back in your hole after you make a mess.
post #32 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

"The AP review of the Palm Pre is replete for praise for the device, claiming it is a "remarkable achievement" and that it "makes the iPhone look clunky."

Um no. The hardware and UI/OS of the iPhone is far from clunky. If he's talking about the OS, the OS is intuitive enough that a new user doesn't even need to pick up or read a manual to use it. If its hardware, this guy is nuts.

Compared to the Pre’s 50% faster ARM CPU with a newer architecture, double the RAM and the fact that it’s using beefed-up webcode (HTML, CSS, JS), not a scaled down desktop OS, the iPhone could very well appear slow and clunky in comparison. I’m sure we’ll get plenty of side-by-side videos and reviews comparing the two before the weekend is out.
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post #33 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Can you swap the Pre's battery? End of story.

No. not the end of the story. You then have to ask the question do you want to go messing about swapping batteries? How many do you have to keep around?

I've had mobile phones for nearly 10 years now and I've never kept a spare battery, I expect enough life from the one already in there to get me through.
post #34 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

See the iPhone can crash, but you will never lose all your data. It's well protected purposely. Palm is playing with fire on this. It's like the old Treo days, where the thing just crashes and I don't know why. Upon rebooting all data is gone. I hot sync twice a day just in case. Speaking of HotSync, that POS was never properly coded for the Mac. Palm pretty much treated Mac users 3rd class citizens with it.

Palm got smart (or rational) and made a backup system lol
post #35 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

How many Smart Phone OS do we have now? iPhone, Blackberry, Windows Mobile, WebOS, Android, Symbian.....

Six major brands. It will get down to two or three in 5 years. All markets go through this consolidation.

Which three will survive? Blackberry and iPhone will, and the rest will fight for the last spot.

My prediction. Google will buy Palm and integrate the WebOS layer to Android, Both of them hare Linux based. Developers will have two ways to write apps for it - either through Google's Java SDK, or through WebOS's HTML/CSS/Javascript. The OS UI will use WebOS (since it looks much better than current Android).

If that happens, Android/WebOS will have a very good chance. If not, separately, neither of them will survive.

I would say that iPhone will survive, with Blackberry to a much lesser degree as the years go on. Then I have been thinking, what if Apple waits for the Pre to not do as well as expected, then they buy up the remaining assets of Palm?

It seems there are some cool UI elements that Palm has come up with, as well as the rest of their "intellectual property" that Apple could put to good use in future iPhones and other devices.
post #36 of 273
Looks pretty good from the Engadget review. It's a shame that it won't be out until Christmas in the UK (and even then only available on the horrifically expensive O2 network).

The other downside for me would be the 8GB limit. Makes sycning with iTunes a bit pointless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

Steve won't allow iPhone to do Flash for that reason. No other phone will do Flash (no matter how people moan and complain) for the same reason.

Plenty of phones already include Flash. Either native Flash Lite 3 (aka full-fat Flash 8) or by using server technology to bring the latest version of Flash to the phone (i.e. Skyfire).
post #37 of 273
"$240 a year less than AT&T."

It's silly that AT&T can't (yet?) grasp the concept that a smartphone is now for CONSUMERS. Who expect some text messages in their plan.

However, I don't use texting, and when my friends text me I call them back instead (which is easier anyway). The situations in which you NEED texting (as opposed to voice and email) are rare enough that my monthly SMS bill from AT&T averages $1.

Which would put the Pre's plan at $12 a year less, not $240

$240 would be for AT&T's unlimited SMS plan--which is fair to compare, but is actually needed by almost nobody. They have two levels of SMS below the unlimited plan. They cost less and let you do MASS amounts of texting.
post #38 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Users who want to sync PIM data from a Mac or PC desktop client will need to take a few additional steps to first sync their data to a Google account, which will then need to be linked to the Pre.

So, for the Pre to be actually useful you have to hand over all your data to google? I consider that a very black mark against it. Yes, yes, I know google says their motto is "do no evil", but does anyone really believe that? Apparently a lot of people do, but I don't believe them for a second.
post #39 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITFinanceGuy View Post

I would say that iPhone will survive, with Blackberry to a much lesser degree as the years go on. Then I have been thinking, what if Apple waits for the Pre to not do as well as expected, then they buy up the remaining assets of Palm?

It seems there are some cool UI elements that Palm has come up with, as well as the rest of their "intellectual property" that Apple could put to good use in future iPhones and other devices.

iPhone OS will survive as long as Apple survives, so it should be around in some form for many years to come.

Windows Mobile does have Microsoft behind it, but it's dire because it's built on an outdated UI design that tweaking can't fix. However if they were to fix it, they'd do it in-house, and they probably will for WinMob7 or 8 - the new launcher application for 6.5 doesn't count, it needs to be available throughout the entire system.

BlackBerry - well it is popular now, and because of business entrenchment could stay popular for a while. I don't know enough to say whether or not it will fall behind as the touch systems take over. This is one company that could buy out webOS from Palm's skeleton, just to port their BB applications across.

Android - has Google behind it. Will have a lot of third party phones using it this year. Major threat to WinMob and Symbian/Nokia.

Symbian - at least it has Nokia behind it, and a new QT based UI coming soon. Nokia is a bit confusing here because they're also moving Linux/Maemo to other devices as well.
post #40 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

Before you slam Mossberg, who are you to criticize him? Are you credentials as exemplary as Mossberg? No. Your just a troll scurrying out of a rock when you have an opportunity, then scurry back in your hole after you make a mess.

Ouch! If you don't know Mossberg is the quintessential Apple fanboy than that's your ignorance not mine. Go back to your barn - and take your friends with you.
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