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Review roundup: Palm's Pre and its fledgeling WebOS - Page 5

post #161 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I don't know, wouldn't MMS be more money for AT&T?

That's what i mean - who knows? I just don't know why Apple would intentionally limit a feature that people obviously want.

- could be they were waiting on 3g
- could be they had other priorities
- could be....etc.

The whole, "apple wanted everybody using email" is a possibility, but i'm not sure I buy it. They aren't shy about "telling" consumers what we're going to use (no removable battery....dropping firewire from macbooks, etc, for example) but I don't think that's the case here. MMS is too entrenched in the marketplace - there's gotta be another reason.
post #162 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

In terms of flash, apple cooked their own pig by making the claim (using the UK version)


You never know which part of the internet you'll need. The do you need sun cream part? The what's the quickest way to the airport part? The what about an ocean view room part? Or the can you really afford this part? Which is why all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone


Do Palm make a similar claim?

In terms of the video, the iphone can do it, its just apple does not let you *yet* which is what I assume palm is doing. But it will probably appear once Apples finally comes out of the woodwork and into the general population.

We would have to read all of Palm's copy to know exactly what they've said. Possibly they've learned from the mistakes of others.

As for video recording, we've seen, on jailbroken phones just how poorly it works. It's a good thing Apple didn't enable it.
post #163 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

That's what i mean - who knows? I just don't know why Apple would intentionally limit a feature that people obviously want.

- could be they were waiting on 3g
- could be they had other priorities
- could be....etc.

The whole, "apple wanted everybody using email" is a possibility, but i'm not sure I buy it. They aren't shy about "telling" consumers what we're going to use (no removable battery....dropping firewire from macbooks, etc, for example) but I don't think that's the case here. MMS is too entrenched in the marketplace - there's gotta be another reason.

It wasn't entrenched in the US market two years ago.
post #164 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

i've read they are still having a lot of problems with the SDK that accesses the hardware for things like games. supposedly it crashes the phone to the point where you have to restore your phone.

Apple has it's problems, but it's pretty close to Blizzard in that they don't put out beta products most of the time. or they don't hype features they don't plan to fully implement for another year or so

Okay this is just completely wrong, for 2 major reasons. 1, you made up the whole restore thing about the pre, and 2 did we forget iphone 2.0?!?!?! Don't put out beta software are you kidding me? My iphone was garbage from July-September.

P.S. Blizzard is MUCH better than Apple when it comes to not releasing betas.
post #165 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeetime View Post

So, the Pre's battery life sucks. What a surprise! Didn't Apple say all along that they could do multitasking on the iPhone, but battery life would be severely impacted, and that was a compromise that they didn't want to make? As Mr. Spock once said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." In this case, Apple is betting that "the many" represents basic phone use over the course of a day or two, and "the few" would be the few times that the ability to multitask would be handy. I think that's a reasonable bet. Also, the iPhone CAN multitask to a certain degree - how else can you listen to music in the background while playing a game or surfing the web.

Having said all of that, I'd like to see Palm succeed and stay in the game. More choice is always good for the consumer.

If you read the engadget review, they say even with multi tasking and pretty heavy usage throughout a day it gets the same battery life as the iPhone. Apple says the iPhone can't multitask because of battery but we all know because the iphone LAGS enough without multitasking imagine if it could.
post #166 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I cannot say a noticed a huge difference in iPhone battery life after 2.1. Its possibly somewhat better but certainly not dramatically better.

For me the dramatic increase came with 2.2, from barely two days (9AM day 1 until 9PM day 2), to easily three days.
post #167 of 273
When the new iPhone specs come out, it will be a good to final compare the two devices. Considering they will be out with-in weeks of each other. Not very often do tech time tables line up so well to allow a direct comparison.
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post #168 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It will be, but Palm has been very open about their product and Apple, as usual, hasnt said anything about the next iPhone HW and associated SW features.

Apple has said a lot about SW features, as in OS 3.0 (not everything for sure, but multiple betas of 3.0 have been seeded, so a lot is know already).
post #169 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel0418 View Post

If you read the engadget review, they say even with multi tasking and pretty heavy usage throughout a day it gets the same battery life as the iPhone. Apple says the iPhone can't multitask because of battery but we all know because the iphone LAGS enough without multitasking imagine if it could.

The Pre has significantly less battery life than the iPhone.

from 20 minutes less for talk, to 2 hours less for video playback, all the way to half the time for music playback, 12 hours vs 24 hours. Several testers have said that they only made it to early evening, and often ran out mid afternoon.

That's not so great.
post #170 of 273
One year is huge, as we all know, in a technology's time-line.
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post #171 of 273
The big drawback is Sprint and the network. Sure, you can multitask and use Pandora, but don't expect to get a call while streaming pandora because like EDGE, EVDO is voice OR data. When streaming music or surfing heavily, expect your callers to be dumped directly to voicemail.


Sheldon
post #172 of 273
I am surprised they made the keyboard slide down on the Y axis, I would have made it slide on the X axis. Made for more keyboard space.
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post #173 of 273
Someone brought up visual voice mail. Is that patented by apple?
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post #174 of 273
The only way I can see getting that much battery time is by not using web or process intense apps very often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

For me the dramatic increase came with 2.2, from barely two days (9AM day 1 until 9PM day 2), to easily three days.
post #175 of 273
Nope. Verizon has visual voicemail, charge an extra $2 for it

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionGrey View Post

Someone brought up visual voice mail. Is that patented by apple?
post #176 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionGrey View Post

Someone brought up visual voice mail. Is that patented by apple?

They have something going on there, but I don't know if it rises to the level of a patent.
post #177 of 273
Who cares if the battery only lasts 40 minutes...?? AT LEAST YOU CAN MULTITASK!!!
post #178 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

I don't think he's a troll. He has a different opinion then most and I enjoy reading those posts at times. Teckstud has also helped out the community with a lot of good tricks and tips. ...

I'm thinking you aren't reading this forum much lately. You certainly don't post that much.

I read every thread on this site every day. I also read (almost) every comment on the threads because I comment on about 70% or 80% of them.

teckstud has never to my knowledge said much of anything positive at all, and has certainly NEVER, ever given anyone "good advice" or a "tip" on anything.

His posts are almost always one liners, almost always negative and purposely insulting. He regularly takes the opposite position of whatever others are arguing, even if it goes against what he himself had argued previously. Even when he is being "funny" (he thinks I suppose), his jokes are all cruel and nasty. The boy is a complete waste of space IMO in regards actually having anything to say or contribute to the debate.

There is a line in most forums called "the personal insult" which usually gets you frozen or temp banned the first time and kicked out the next time you do it. Teckstud has personally insulted me several times and I've reported him for doing it to others at least a dozen more, yet he is still here.

I enjoy a good debate and knowing that I've done it myself, it's easy to inadvertently get personal or insult others or even to get mad once in a while, but this is not that. This is a person that is uniformly angry and insulting pretty much 24/7 who periodically *controls* himself just enough not to get caught or banned. Totally different story altogether IMO.
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post #179 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

Apple has said a lot about SW features, as in OS 3.0 (not everything for sure, but multiple betas of 3.0 have been seeded, so a lot is know already).

Those are general v3.0 updates that all iPhones are getting. They didnt show any SW features that will only be available on the next iPhone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionGrey View Post

I am surprised they made the keyboard slide down on the Y axis, I would have made it slide on the X axis. Made for more keyboard space.

That does seem daft and the small keys are one of the drawback, even though the physical keyboard is a plus.
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post #180 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Nope. Verizon has visual voicemail, charge an extra $2 for it

$2 per voicemail or per month? You never know with Verizon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

His posts are almost always one liners, almost always negative and purposely insulting. He regularly takes the opposite position of whatever others are arguing, even if it goes against what he himself had argued previously.

Dont forget that he claims to have never lost an argument on this forum.
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post #181 of 273
OOOhh, we're going to get the Verizon people started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

$2 per voicemail or per month? You never know with Verizon.
post #182 of 273
Several reviewers have mentioned that the Pre is somewhat let down by its hardware, which is variously described as "cheap feeling" or "flimsy." Reviewers have also mentioned the cramped keyboard and inexplicably sharp ridges that surround it.

I have to wonder how that happened-- Palm obviously put a lot of thought into the software, why would they allow their make or break phone go to market with serious ergonomic or durability issues?

I'm not just randomly bashing the Pre, here. Palm obviously made some smart choice in their OS and UI design. But if they tried to cut corners in manufacturing, and the Pre gets a rep as being not durable or awkward, that could be a huge problem. Palm's walking a tightrope, they really have to get this right. If bad word of mouth depresses Sprint sales, Verizon may rethink their deal to carry it.

I also have to wonder about how that slider keyboard is going to work with apps in landscape-- did Palm make anything with text entry non-orientable?

Anyway, all of that are the kinds of things that don't become evident until people are using the phone day to day. Maybe those things are fine-- maybe the phone is perfectly durable despite feeling a little cheap in the hand, maybe the ridges aren't any big deal, maybe people just won't use text entry apps in landscape. Maybe all of those things won't matter because people will dig the OS and UI so much they'll look past any shortcomings (as was the case with the iPhone).

But it really remains to be seen exactly what kind of device this is in everyday life.
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post #183 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Who cares if the battery only lasts 40 minutes...?? AT LEAST YOU CAN MULTITASK!!!

Even if it's only for 40 minutes!

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post #184 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Who cares if the battery only lasts 40 minutes...?? AT LEAST YOU CAN MULTITASK!!!

Assuming you don't throw your phone against the wall since every time you open a new app and the phone looks like its frozen for 10-15 seconds.
post #185 of 273
Palm's cloud-based OS is a little too ahead of its time - the battery life is universally panned.

Hopefully next iterations of the hardware will catch up to the software and give it great battery life too.
post #186 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I have to wonder how that happened-- Palm obviously put a lot of thought into the software, why would they allow their make or break phone go to market with serious ergonomic or durability issues?

I see the Palm Pre is more like a test device for the operating system, it's only available for CDMA networks and can't be sold globally. The subsequent spins of the hardware - which will be sold globally and use UMTS networks will focus a little more on the hardware side.

The incredibly short battery life shows that while the software is ahead of its time, the hardware isn't quite there yet.
post #187 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by retroneo View Post

The incredibly short battery life shows that while the software is ahead of its time, the hardware isn't quite there yet.

As stated, I dont agree with you. The HW of the Pre are the most advanced and powerful out right now for phones. They are using the Armv7 Cortex-A8 with 256MB RAM. If anything, Id say that poor battery is a result from an underdeveloped OS that doesnt have power management setup as well as it should be.
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post #188 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The Pre has significantly less battery life than the iPhone.

from 20 minutes less for talk, to 2 hours less for video playback, all the way to half the time for music playback, 12 hours vs 24 hours. Several testers have said that they only made it to early evening, and often ran out mid afternoon.

That's not so great.

That is why there exists such a thing called a swappable battery. Besides this, Palm is working on fixing this as you well know since you've been reading the reviews today.
post #189 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by retroneo View Post

Palm's cloud-based OS is a little too ahead of its time - the battery life is universally panned.

Hopefully next iterations of the hardware will catch up to the software and give it great battery life too.

Not panned- as it is swappable- something the iPhone lacks and has always been written up as a flaw in its design.

per David Pogue in today's NY TImes -
Quote:
BATTERY. Everyone griped about the iPhone’s permanently sealed battery. The Pre’s battery, however, is easy to swap.
post #190 of 273
I don't quite agree with this as Google has built a billion dollar empire based on cloud computing. Most of the iPhone's app functionality is based on cloud computing.

More than likely the Pre's battery life is a combination of multitasking and poor energy management. Multitasking certainly does not help energy management.


Quote:
Originally Posted by retroneo View Post

Palm's cloud-based OS is a little too ahead of its time - the battery life is universally panned.

The incredibly short battery life shows that while the software is ahead of its time, the hardware isn't quite there yet.
post #191 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by beg View Post

Assuming you don't throw your phone against the wall since every time you open a new app and the phone looks like its frozen for 10-15 seconds.

As David Pogue stated today inthe NY Times:
Quote:
So do the Pre’s perks (beautiful hardware and software, compact size, keyboard, swappable battery, flash, multitasking, calendar consolidation) outweigh its weak spots (battery life, occasional sluggishness, ringer volume)?

Oh, yes indeedy. Especially when you consider that Verizon Wireless has announced that it will carry the Pre “in the next six months or so.”

Can you imagine how great that will be? One of the world’s best phones on the nation’s best cell network?
post #192 of 273
Having a swappable battery doesn't just automatically solve every problem. You have to purchase the extra battery, the extra battery has to be charged, and you have to carry it around with you.

Reviews have written the iPhone's sealed battery as a negative, but this has had no real impact on iPhone sales and success. The iPod has dominated the world media player market for five years now with sealed batteries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Not panned- as it is swappable- something the iPhone lacks and has always been written up as a flaw in its design.
post #193 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

That's what i mean - who knows? I just don't know why Apple would intentionally limit a feature that people obviously want.

- could be they were waiting on 3g
- could be they had other priorities
- could be....etc.

The whole, "apple wanted everybody using email" is a possibility, but i'm not sure I buy it. They aren't shy about "telling" consumers what we're going to use (no removable battery....dropping firewire from macbooks, etc, for example) but I don't think that's the case here. MMS is too entrenched in the marketplace - there's gotta be another reason.

Yeah- it is called MobileMe. Apple launched it and botched it.
What they thought was gonna be yet another closed system for Apple of receiving and getting mail and pics on the iPhone, didn't launch as planned and lost all momentum. Apparently it's not selling as great as they thought- why else would they be going to MMS texting and pics this late in the game.
post #194 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Having a swappable battery doesn't just automatically solve every problem. You have to purchase the extra battery, the extra battery has to be charged, and you have to carry it around with you.

Reviews have written the iPhone's sealed battery as a negative, but this has had no real impact on iPhone sales and success. The iPod has dominated the world media player market for five years now with sealed batteries.

SO? That is totally different -because when you need to make or get a phone call or data you need a charge now.
iPods were/are for music and pics- who cared if the battery drain out?
post #195 of 273
What in the world are you talking about?

MobileMe has nothing directly to do with messaging protocols. MobileMe is about storage and distribution of information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Yeah- it is called MobileMe. Apple launched it and botched it.
What they thought was gonna be yet another closed system for Apple of receiving and getting mail and pics on the iPhone, didn't launch as planned and lost all momentum. Apparently it's not selling as great as they thought- why else would they be going to MMS texting and pics this late in the game.
post #196 of 273
Just because the phone has a swappable battery does not automatically mean you get a charge right now. You have to have a second battery, the second battery has to be charged, and you have to have the second battery with you, for the swappable battery to be of any value. Meeting all of these circumstances are not necessarily convenient. Which is why most people never change batteries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

SO? That is totally different -because when you need to make or get a phone call or data you need a charge now.
iPods were/are for music and pics- who cared if the battery drain out?
post #197 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

When I come to my office, I plug in my iPhone. Hooking up iPhone is not just for battery. It is about syncing and I also hook up my speakers to the dock audio-out so I can hear my music. People are just used to plugging in the iPhone because it is part of their computing experience, battery is only a small portion.

For normal to heavy use, iPhone has no problem lasting the whole day. I am talking about reasonably heavy uses - including heavy web browsing for hours during the day, and gaming etc.

It won't last for extreme uses.

Actually, vacation usage is pretty light, since you will take the iphone out only occasionally. iPhone will definitely last for your weekend/vacation. You can take 1000 photos, browse the web for two hours and still have enough juice left.

Real extreme usage happens on airplanes. You may be reading ebooks or playing games for 10 hours non-stop. That will drain iPhone.

However, as I posted earlier, certain activities will use more battery. As you posted, a major one is video recording. I believe the battery usage is exactly why Apple left it out. Software encoding will run down the battery in 40 minutes or 1 hour. That's why I believe the next iPhone will have hardware encoding, and even with the iPhone 3.0 OS, older iPhones won't have it because older iPhones do not have the encoding chip.

I have used iPhone for a year or so. I only run out of battery maybe three or four times, and it is always because I forgot to plug in the night before.

From your posts, it seems you do not have an iPhone. I don't blame you for thinking it is a problem, but believe me, it is a non-issue for most people.

good, sensible post.
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post #198 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The difference is that Palm has had a continuous line of PDA's and smartphones for many years now, and have had this feature in many of them for a large part of that time, while this is Apple's first phone. so Palm should know what is needed, and have a very good idea as to how it should be done, while Apple had to sweat it out for the iPhone, while adding a lot of other features that many people wanted more.

That has to be taken into consideration. And we can't really take the way computers do it because of the very different abilities.

Apple has the Newton MessagePad which had copy and paste. It's a different OS with different hardware. That's why they didn't have copy and paste right away. The same can be said about Palm. It's a different OS with different hardware compared to their previous devices. How long has it been since their updated their OS? They had some recent phones, but those used windows mobile.

Either way, I think what you said makes sense, which is why the Pre isn't completely lacking in copy and paste, know what I mean?
post #199 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

People still care about swappable batteries? This is 2009. LOL.

lol. so true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

I've got no problem waiting for a technology to develop if it's not quite ready for "prime time." But people are legitimately peeved because everybody bashed Apple for not including video recording, Flash, and a host of other features. Turns out, Apple was right. From Day One, people hated on the iPhone b/c it didn't do video recording. "My phone X does can do it since X years ago" blah blah blah. Now, 2 and a half years later, the best competitor the iPhone has seen to date cannot manage to do these same things. It's just a little bit vindicatiing, that's all. Apple doesn't simply withold features for no good reason.

i agree with you. Pre has had a further 2 and a half years time for development, with the additional advantage of newer, more powerful hardware and yet still lacks several of the things that people were kicking up a stink over about the iPhone not having. i don't hear the same noise being generated by these people now...
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post #200 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

What in the world are you talking about?

MobileMe has nothing directly to do with messaging protocols. MobileMe is about storage and distribution of information.

You know better than to try to communicate with him in a rational and/or technical manner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Just because the phone has a swappable battery does not automatically mean you get a charge right now. You have to have a second battery, the second battery has to be charged, and you have to have the second battery with you, for the swappable battery to be of any value. Meeting all of these circumstances are not necessarily convenient. Which is why most people never change batteries.

Having the plug-in-play battery is more convenient for many people, though they didnt realize when they first complained about it 2 years ago. The external battery packs dont have to be kept on the device, they charge the internal battery. This means that a large variety and different types to suit every need can be used and they can be charged along side the iPhone without having to do some crazy swap in the middle of the night, which has always been a pain with extra Mac batteries when traveling. Id love for an external battery pack to come out for their notebooks.
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