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Review roundup: Palm's Pre and its fledgeling WebOS - Page 7

post #241 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I would give it a couple of years before making an evaluation.

lol I don't plan on having it that long. I'll let whoever buys it from me on ebay deal with what it does in a couple of years. The TP2 might be something I'll hold on for 2 years, but who knows. I might end up buying a Tegra based phone a year or so from now.
post #242 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Not obsessed at all - but you and your ilk on here are in denial biig time if you don't think a swappable battery on a muti-function device serves a purpose.

serves a purpose, but isn't an absolute requirement for the majority of iPhone users.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I can't believe the Pre is a slider! I always thoght Apple should have manufactured a slider version of the iPhone -and this very close to it. Bravo to Palm.
At first I thought it was just a keyboard that extended from it. but now I see that it is a full slider phone! I am salivating!
BTW-The screen is supposed to be breathtaking.

portrait keyboard renders landscape mode pretty daft. personally i prefer a touchscreen keyboard to a cramped button one that is going to wear out.

oh and dude, 2 and a half years newer and it doesn't do video, it doesn't do flash and copy/paste is crippled! you should complain to someone.
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post #243 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I can't believe the Pre is a slider! I always thoght Apple should have manufactured a slider version of the iPhone -and this very close to it. Bravo to Palm.
At first I thought it was just a keyboard that extended from it. but now I see that it is a full slider phone! I am salivating!
BTW-The screen is supposed to be breathtaking.

Except that the keyboard is one of the weaknesses that reviewers have been pointing out. Only one person so far has found it to be really to his liking. All the others have commented on the problems.

BTW, no 3.1" diagonal screen can ever be described as "breathtaking".

The Grand Canyon is breathtaking. IMAX could be described as breathtaking, but not a 3.1" screen.
post #244 of 273
For my money, "awesome", "stunning" and "breathtaking" should all be banned from use by tech writers.

Every time I read some wretched tech pundit inform me that a bit of UI animation or curved case part is "stunning", I wonder how they came by their absurdly promiscuous sense of wonderment.

I imagine them wandering the world, reacting with shocked awe and astonishment at every other object they encounter.
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post #245 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

For my money, "awesome", "stunning" and "breathtaking" should all be banned from use by tech writers.

Every time I read some wretched tech pundit inform me that a bit of UI animation or curved case part is "stunning", I wonder how they came by their absurdly promiscuous sense of wonderment.

I imagine them wandering the world, reacting with shocked awe and astonishment at every other object they encounter.

One of the favorite expressions in "high end audio" is "blows me away".

What that really means is that if you strain to hear it (if it exists at all), and notice something (even if others don't), then it "blows you away".
post #246 of 273
Last summer I saw "The Dark Knight" twice at the IMAX at Lincoln Center. Both times you could hear an audible gasp from the audience at the first shot of the film looking over highrise buildings. You literally felt as though you were floating in the air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

IMAX could be described as breathtaking, but not a 3.1" screen.
post #247 of 273
The thing I like about my Kensington mini battery pack for my iPhone is that I can remain on a call and simply plug it in.

It's charging now on a USB port on my work PC because I used it to charge my iPhone as I was having lunch, it's about the same size as any other phone battery and comes with a retractable USB cord.

I can even plug my iPhone in while it's charging which means I can charge my iPhone using a standard mini USB plug.

Having it means I can continuously use the Internet for 7-8 hours.

I wonder how well a Pre would cope with changing the battery on a dark night in the rain.
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post #248 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The problem with a slider phone is that its a movable part that will wear out and is more easily be broken when dropped.

As opposed to using a phone with a glass screen? Isn't that also a fragility risk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I would give it a couple of years before making an evaluation.

Didn't you say some time ago that most people don't keep their phones that long? Or am I remembering someone else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

portrait keyboard renders landscape mode pretty daft. personally i prefer a touchscreen keyboard to a cramped button one that is going to wear out.

iPhone didn't have much of a landscape keyboard for two years, just Safari, and while I liked the size of the keys, it did take a lot of screen. Was landscape mode daft during those two years?

I can't say I've ever had a button wear out on any phone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Having it means I can continuously use the Internet for 7-8 hours.

That's a lot of internet use for such a small device, don't you cramp up?
post #249 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

iPhone didn't have much of a landscape keyboard for two years, just Safari, and while I liked the size of the keys, it did take a lot of screen. Was landscape mode daft during those two years?

Typing in landscape mode is mostly useless since it uses so much of the display. Im glad the option is there, but I certainly wont be using it much

On the Pre, landscape mode for a physical keyboard slider would have made more sense, IMO. It would have kept the keys from being so cramped and there is no lose of the display space to use it in that mode, obviously. As other reviewers have stated, the physical keyboard looks to be an issue for several reasons.

I hope Palm excels with the Pre but that decision isnt looking too good.
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post #250 of 273
Yikes! There were only 11 people at Sprint flagship store in Manhattan waiting for the Pre (though that could be the queue for returning the device ). I would have thought that store would have drawn a larger crowd.
http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com...s-soggy-debut/
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post #251 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

As opposed to using a phone with a glass screen? Isn't that also a fragility risk?

It is a risk, but with a difference. A glass screen may break if dropped at the right angle. A moving part will wear out and will break given time.

Quote:
Didn't you say some time ago that most people don't keep their phones that long? Or am I remembering someone else?

I don't recall saying that. But from the stats I've read two years is about average.
post #252 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

As opposed to using a phone with a glass screen? Isn't that also a fragility risk?

These screens aren't really "glass". The surface is glass just a few thousands thick, bonded to the plastic underneath. The glass is very flexible, and difficult to break. The plastic absorbs the shock. That's been proven by the very few problems people are having with them.

Quote:
iPhone didn't have much of a landscape keyboard for two years, just Safari, and while I liked the size of the keys, it did take a lot of screen. Was landscape mode daft during those two years?

It was very annoying not having a landscape keyboard. I bought TouchType, but it's marginally usable because it only works in Mail, and isn't as seamless as I had hoped.

The point he's making, I think, is that typing on a landscape keyboard is easier, and just having a portrait one not only makes it impossible, but also makes landscape mode in many programs difficult. If you're in landscape mode in the browser, and you tap the to enable the keyboard to type, it would switch to portrait if a landscape keyboard wasn't available. Then what would happen? Would it revert back to landscape afterwards? Would it know when you were through if you were filling out several lines of blanks? would it revert after each blank was filled? would it wait until you were through?

How would this work. Really silly.

But having the touch screen fixes all these problems, as it can work either way.

Quote:
I can't say I've ever had a button wear out on any phone.

I haven't either, but I've had them get stuck at times.

Quote:
That's a lot of internet use for such a small device, don't you cramp up?

I can't believe that anyone, no matter what they say, is using their phone for internet use for 7-8 hours at a stretch.
post #253 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Typing in landscape mode is mostly useless since it uses so much of the display. I’m glad the option is there, but I certainly won’t be using it much

On the Pre, landscape mode for a physical keyboard slider would have made more sense, IMO. It would have kept the keys from being so cramped and there is no lose of the display space to use it in that mode, obviously. As other reviewers have stated, the physical keyboard looks to be an issue for several reasons.

I hope Palm excels with the Pre but that decision isn’t looking too good.

I disagree. Why would you care how much of the screen it uses? All you need is one or two lines of text to see. It actually works very well, as tabbed spaces you have to fill in for passwords and such are larger and easier to tap on without going through all of the stretching in portrait mode. There is actually MORE type on the screen in landscape than there is with portrait. I use TouchType, and other than for the inconvenience of it not being a built-in keyboard, typing is much better. I'm eagerly awaiting Apple's.

I don't know the measurement of the keyboard from the edge to the leftmost key to the rightmost, but it looks to be smaller than the one on my Treo 700p, which is small enough already. I never liked that one.

This one looks much worse. The keyboard on the N97, which is in landscape, which gives a much bigger one, has one of the problems of this, which is a very close overhanging phone housing close to the top keys. I've always found them (keyboards like that) to be difficult to use as your fingers often hit the edge of the housing, and slides them to the keys below, getting a double letter. You have to be careful, and instead of hitting the key with the center of your thumb, you have to hit them with the top of your thumb, with it angled just right. It's a pain.

Now, with the Pre, you will have to be careful of the raised edges as well, something I've never seen before on a phone keyboard.
post #254 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I disagree. Why would you care how much of the screen it uses? All you need is one or two lines of text to see. It actually works very well, as tabbed spaces you have to fill in for passwords and such are larger and easier to tap on without going through all of the stretching in portrait mode. []

Ive tried using landscape mode in Safari since the v1.0 and have tested the new, more system-wide, landscape with v3.0. I dont like it. The virtual keyboard is too spread out making it hard to type on than in portrait mode and the the lack of space for typing is bothersome. Most of my typing is replying to various forums and to emails. Im accustomed to having at least part of the text Im replying to in front of me. Its not an ideal situation for me at all.

The Pres keyboard is cramped and would have probably faired better in reviews had it been landscape mode. It would have afforded a larger keyboard without removing any display space. Of course, the curved slider wouldnt have have looked as cool. I hope that wasnt the focus of the physical design.

Like I stated, Im glad the option is there as people have asked for it and there is no reason why it shouldnt be included if it was available for Safari, but its not to my liking.
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post #255 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

These screens aren't really "glass". The surface is glass just a few thousands thick, bonded to the plastic underneath. The glass is very flexible, and difficult to break. The plastic absorbs the shock. That's been proven by the very few problems people are having with them.

There's glass but they really aren't glass? Having replaced mine, I think you're underselling how much glass is in that face plate. I'd say it's maybe fifteen to twenty thousands thick. (addendum: I found my old one, the touch face is two layers, about 0.035" each with maybe something between, about 0.078" total, top is glass, the back layer is probably plastic)

It is pretty resilient for having glass, but I did manage to break mine. iPhone is the only device which I've broken the screen like that.

I question any assertion, vague or not, of the rarity or otherwise of iPhone glass breaking. It does happen. That's all we really know. We don't know if it's common or rare. I know not everyone is breaking them. Then we don't know about the rarity of sliders breaking or wearing out to properly compare the risk either. So yes, it's hand waving against hand waving, but I thought it's worth pointing out that it's a bit one sided to not acknowledge the durability risks on both sides.
post #256 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Ive tried using landscape mode in Safari since the v1.0 and have tested the new, more system-wide, landscape with v3.0. I dont like it. The virtual keyboard is too spread out making it hard to type on than in portrait mode and the the lack of space for typing is bothersome. Most of my typing is replying to various forums and to emails. Im accustomed to having at least part of the text Im replying to in front of me. Its not an ideal situation for me at all.

I don't see that problem. There is no text available in portrait mode either. I don't understand how you find a difference there. Even if the last line could be seen, that offers no help. The portrait mode gives a bigger keyboard, which is why so many people want them, so your statement about it being more spread out seems to be something only a small number of people might not like.

Quote:
The Pres keyboard is cramped and would have probably faired better in reviews had it been landscape mode. It would have afforded a larger keyboard without removing any display space. Of course, the curved slider wouldnt have have looked as cool. I hope that wasnt the focus of the physical design.

From what I read and see, the keyboard sucks. I'll go to the Sprint store in my neighborhood in a couple of days and try it.

I'll bet the way it looks was part of the reason why they did it that way.

Quote:
Like I stated, Im glad the option is there as people have asked for it and there is no reason why it shouldnt be included if it was available for Safari, but its not to my liking.

That's the advantage of an on screen keyboard, you can have it both ways.
post #257 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

There's glass but they really aren't glass? Having replaced mine, I think you're underselling how much glass is in that face plate. I'd say it's maybe fifteen to twenty thousands thick. (addendum: I found my old one, the touch face is two layers, about 0.035" each with something between, about 0.078" total)

It is pretty resilient for having glass, but I did manage to break mine. iPhone is the only device which I've broken the screen like that.

I question any assertion, vague or not, of the rarity or otherwise of iPhone glass breaking. It does happen. That's all we really know. We don't know if it's common or rare. I know not everyone is breaking them. Then we don't know about the rarity of sliders breaking or wearing out to properly compare the risk either.

It's still very thin.

According to my friends at Apple, it's very fare for one to break. If it weren't, you know we would be hearing about in the tech press, and read about the complaints on Apple's forums, as well as a bunch here.

Everything can break, even a solid block of stainless steel, that doesn't mean it's common.

You remember all the comments about scratching. Since the glass layer on both the iPhone and iTouch, we've heard virtually nothing bad about the screens surfaces. That means it's rare enough so that the hysterics who love to make a fuss about such things can't get enough reports to do so.

I'd say that makes the screens very rugged.
post #258 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't see that problem. There is no text available in portrait mode either. I don't understand how you find a difference there. Even if the last line could be seen, that offers no help. The portrait mode gives a bigger keyboard, which is why so many people want them, so your statement about it being more spread out seems to be something only a small number of people might not like.

Landscape gives a bigger keyboard, using more of the display real estate. Add in the row above the keyboard for tabbing to fields and it even worse. My two issues are: 1) I get more text area to type in with portrait mode; and 2) I find thumb typing in portrait mode considerably faster than in landscape mode.

To each their own, now wait for the 3rd-aprty accessory makers to offer a physical keyboard option.





Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You remember all the comments about scratching. Since the glass layer on both the iPhone and iTouch, we've heard virtually nothing bad about the screens surfaces. That means it's rare enough so that the hysterics who love to make a fuss about such things can't get enough reports to do so.

Remember the outcry when Apple made the decision late in the game?
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post #259 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's still very thin.

According to my friends at Apple, it's very fare for one to break. If it weren't, you know we would be hearing about in the tech press, and read about the complaints on Apple's forums, as well as a bunch here.

Is there a bigger outcry in the tech press and various forums about the slider format?
post #260 of 273
Hot off the presses. First Palm Pre teardown photos. Estimated price of hardware is $170.

http://www.rapidrepair.com/guides/Pa...air-guide.html
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post #261 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Landscape gives a bigger keyboard, using more of the display real estate. Add in the row above the keyboard for tabbing to fields and it even worse. My two issues are: 1) I get more text area to type in with portrait mode; and 2) I find thumb typing in portrait mode considerably faster than in landscape mode.

To each their own, now wait for the 3rd-aprty accessory makers to offer a physical keyboard option.


That doesn't show any more area. The area is about the same. One has more horizontally, and one has more vertically. Neither shows much. No advantage to either mode.

But the horiz. keyboard is much easier to use for most people, including me.

Quote:
Remember the outcry when Apple made the decision late in the game?

You'll have to be more specific. Outcry about what? Having problems with scratches? Outcry about moving to a glass layer?
post #262 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Is there a bigger outcry in the tech press and various forums about the slider format?

Well, we do keep hearing about how flimsy they all feel. We do hear about problems with overhanging "lips" from the body of the phones. Now we hear about the problems with the Pre keyboard in the reviews.
post #263 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That doesn't show any more area. The area is about the same. One has more horizontally, and one has more vertically. Neither shows much. No advantage to either mode.

But the horiz. keyboard is much easier to use fr most people, including me.

Add the numbers, the portrait keyboard uses less space than the landscape keyboard giving me more visual text space to type my responses. Sometimes the need to scrolling left of right is a pain, but that isnt an issue while typing, just for proof reading, which is easily solved by removing the keyboard and then reading in landscape. I find the additional room and keyboard setup much better for typing. Obviously we have different needs and feeling on this, but at least its virtual so we can both get the type we find most useful, well, when v3.0 comes out you will.


Quote:
ou'll have to be more specific. Outcry about what? Having problems with scratches? Outcry about moving to a glass layer?

Outcry about moving to a glass screen at the last minute.
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post #264 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Add the numbers, the portrait keyboard uses less space than the landscape keyboard giving me more visual text space to type my responses. Sometimes the need to scrolling left of right is a pain, but that isn’t an issue while typing, just for proof reading, which is easily solved by removing the keyboard and then reading in landscape. I find the additional room and keyboard setup much better for typing. Obviously we have different needs and feeling on this, but at least it’s virtual so we can both get the type we find most useful, well, when v3.0 comes out you will.

Well, as I said, the advantage of virtual screems is that they can be whatever you like. Think about the problems of bringing a "real" keyboard to Japan, China, Russia, Greece, Indonesia, etc.

Everyone needs a different keyboard, AND different software. If you take your phone to a different country, or simply need a different keyboard for a different language, you can't have it.

Quote:
Outcry about moving to a glass screen at the last minute.

I don't remember anything like that. What do you mean? The iPhone was announced as having solved the scratching problem with the glass overlay—from the very beginning.

I don't remember anything but cheering for that and for the new iTouch.
post #265 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Hot off the presses. First Palm Pre teardown photos. Estimated price of hardware is $170.
http://www.rapidrepair.com/guides/Pa...air-guide.html

So the HW in the original iPhone was estimated to cost $228 and the iPhone 3G $175. Considering that many of the more expensive parts of the iPhone are the same as the Pre, I am looking forward to the HW and retail cost comparisons.*


* Costs are calculated based soley on HW at time of launch. They are estimations, at best.
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post #266 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So the HW in the original iPhone was estimated to cost $228 and the iPhone 3G $175. Considering that many of the more expensive parts of the iPhone are the same as the Pre, I am looking forward to the HW and retail cost comparisons.*


* Costs are calculated based soley on HW at time of launch. They are estimations, at best.

I would imagine that prices for some major parts would have come down in the interval.

Also, the screen is much smaller. I wonder if the price is lower as well. But the digitizer is part of it. If you have to replace the screen, it might cost a lot more. I wonder if the iPhones' digitizer is also permanently connected?

Also, I haven't heard one way or the other if the screen has a glass covering for scratch protection. My Treo badly needed screen protectors, as the stylus would scratch it easily. The Pre screen also has no protective rim projecting from the edges to protect it if put down on its face. This uses fingers, but still, if it's thrown in a pocket...
post #267 of 273
So it would appear that:

--Palm is being an anticompetitive jackass for selling their phone locked to a single carrier, and

--Palm is a greedy pig for selling it for $200, with "rebate", and heavily subsidized by the carrier, even though it only costs them $170 to make, OMG, obscene profit margins, LOL, and

--Sprint is being a money grubbing monster for only selling the Pre with a mandatory data plan, much like Hitler, and

--Palm is deliberately withholding obvious and trivial technology that my sock drawer has had for the last 50 years, such as video recording, visual voicemail, flash, and decent camera (only 3MP? LOL!) just so they can sell us a new phone later, on account of the greediness, and

--The Pre is useless because it has absolutely horrible battery life compared to the free LG phone I got a few years ago, so good luck Pretards when your precious multitasking leaves you with a worthless lump of plastic just when it could have saved your life, and

-- Palm is full of shit for trying to pass off "web apps" as real apps which my Nokia here has had since the late 1800s, and

--Everybody who buys a Pre is a mindless robot who has been programmed by hype and marketing, LOL.

I think that about covers it.
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post #268 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

So it would appear that:

--Palm is being an anticompetitive jackass for selling their phone locked to a single carrier, and

--Palm is a greedy pig for selling it for $200, with "rebate", and heavily subsidized by the carrier, even though it only costs them $170 to make, OMG, obscene profit margins, LOL, and

--Sprint is being a money grubbing monster for only selling the Pre with a mandatory data plan, much like Hitler, and

--Palm is deliberately withholding obvious and trivial technology that my sock drawer has had for the last 50 years, such as video recording, visual voicemail, flash, and decent camera (only 3MP? LOL!) just so they can sell us a new phone later, on account of the greediness, and

--The Pre is useless because it has absolutely horrible battery life compared to the free LG phone I got a few years ago, so good luck Pretards when your precious multitasking leaves you with a worthless lump of plastic just when it could have saved your life, and

-- Palm is full of shit for trying to pass off "web apps" as real apps which my Nokia here has had since the late 1800s, and

--Everybody who buys a Pre is a mindless robot who has been programmed by hype and marketing, LOL.

I think that about covers it.

I just gave myself a coughing fit laughing too hard. Great post!
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post #269 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Yikes! There were only 11 people at Sprint flagship store in Manhattan waiting for the Pre (though that could be the queue for returning the device ). I would have thought that store would have drawn a larger crowd.
http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com...s-soggy-debut/

That's a hoot not allsprint have ore mine in eastern it doesn't
But I wonder if you can return to any sprint store
Also the CEO sprint and palm got their wish
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post #270 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

So it would appear that:

--Palm is being an anticompetitive jackass for selling their phone locked to a single carrier, and

--Palm is a greedy pig for selling it for $200, with "rebate", and heavily subsidized by the carrier, even though it only costs them $170 to make, OMG, obscene profit margins, LOL, and

--Sprint is being a money grubbing monster for only selling the Pre with a mandatory data plan, much like Hitler, and

--Palm is deliberately withholding obvious and trivial technology that my sock drawer has had for the last 50 years, such as video recording, visual voicemail, flash, and decent camera (only 3MP? LOL!) just so they can sell us a new phone later, on account of the greediness, and

--The Pre is useless because it has absolutely horrible battery life compared to the free LG phone I got a few years ago, so good luck Pretards when your precious multitasking leaves you with a worthless lump of plastic just when it could have saved your life, and

-- Palm is full of shit for trying to pass off "web apps" as real apps which my Nokia here has had since the late 1800s, and

--Everybody who buys a Pre is a mindless robot who has been programmed by hype and marketing, LOL.

I think that about covers it.

Sounds like the old iPhone, so I guess it's right.
post #271 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

It is a risk, but with a difference. A glass screen may break if dropped at the right angle. A moving part will wear out and will break given time.

Equating breakage from dropping to breakage from use is disingenuous. Drop your Pre and I daresay it will be as prone to breaking it's "glass" screen as an iPhone.

Fwiw, I have had keys wear out on panasonic and nokia phones, and sms-junkie friends make a mess of keypads.
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post #272 of 273
Has no one here every heard of an extended battery?

I love Apple as much as the next guy but sometimes the tunnel-vision creates some weird discussions.

People have already doubled the battery time by turning off IM and changing email push time. Clearly some bug fixes will help here. Loads of phones out there with swappable batteries have extended batteries available that often double the rated call and standby times.

I'm also sure that the next iPhone update will be very helpful and appears to build on strengths of storage and likely will add some good camera/video capabilities.

The real problem for Apple is that many competitors do not hold to the "I'm going to update my software and hardware once a year" philosophy and because of that are quickly making up ground. The Storm2 will be released soon and the first one was released in late November. RIM has all manner of phones on all manner of networks. Palm has legacy OS, WinMo and WebOS phones in a variety of form factors and again, across a number of networks.

For many of these companies, the releases are coming fast and furious and the shortcomings are being addressed in months, not years.

So as an example the Pre might not have much in the store on day one and guess what, they might not even have their SDK available either to help build the needed apps.

The reality is that they will get it out in a month or two at most versus Apple taking a year.

The argument about the Pre being exclusive to Sprint centers on whether it will encompass this Christmas or not, in other words six versus seven to eight months. Apple is still with AT&T for the next year and possibly beyond that as well.

No solution is yet perfect and everyone is asking for trade-offs in one form or another. The problem for Apple at this point is that people can pick and choose between more trade-offs with other competitors and addressing and enhancing those trade-offs is being done in months.

Apple needs to create more choices and they need to start doing it on a timeline that involves months, not years.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #273 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse View Post

Let me answer this one at a time

1. No, MS shareholders will not get tired because windows and word are huge money makers and microsoft can always recoup cost via those two apps.. also, ms is not losing money.. they don't build phones, only the software..
2. The pre will get people.. more people that the treo gets and palm is still in business after selling the treo (which as you know sucks).. i have a treo and will be updating to the pre.. a lot of people have treo's.. my wife does not have a treo and she will get a pre.. palm will do fine with this product..
3. When the iphone came out, it too did not have apps.. what's your point?. The pre will eventually have apps. Obviously, people bought the iphone even though there were no apps initially.. you wanna know why CAUSE THEY WERE BUYING A PHONE!!. Yes, it's truly amazing that people in this day and age forget that most people buy a phone to make a call.. the apps are extra. I've never bought a phone for the apps (heck, i don't even know what apps are available for the iphone). only geeks buy a phone for the apps.. most people buy a phone cause it's either 1. cool, 2. easy to use or 3. their friends rave about their phone and then they want one too. My niece just got an iphone as a graduation gift.. not once did she inquire about what apps is available.. she could care less.. i am sure she cares once she gets the phone but that was not a consideration for her wanting an iphone.. she wanted one cause it was cool.
4. Apple disable syncing?.. what are you talking about?.. did apple previously enable syncing to a palm pre?.. when did that happen?.
5. I want a palm pre cause i am on sprint and it's plans are cheaper than AT&T also cause i don't like the iphone. It's a big phone.. even my old beat up sucky treo is smaller than an iphone. (although the iphone is thinner). Also, i've played around with an iphone.. i prefer a physical keyboard.. one thing i think palm should do is give option of software keyboard. I hope they rectify that and upgrade the phone to have a software keyboard.. not everyone wants a physical keyboard. I heard though that palm will come out with other versions of the pre and one of the versions will not have a physical keyboard.. i hope that is true.. they need to provide options.

I have to admit to post stalking you a bit here, but mainly because I am surprised by how consistently wrong someone can be. Lets looks at your 5 points.
1) You appear to have missed the meaning of loss leaders and why shareholders might get tired of them. If these tangental adventures are losing money and MS needs to 'recoup' these loses with their cash cows, then unless these tangents help grow the cash cows, they are detrimental to the overall performance. i.e. they are money losers by definition and some shareholders are not fond of those.
2) Lots of people have/had Treos. How many have used them in the last 2-3 years. Not many. A few co-workers had them years ago. Not one still uses them. They decisively lost the war to WinMo years ago. Palm will and should do fine with this product. As a niche product, just as Apple did for years with their Macs. I hope Palm is not counting on the pre being a major player. One product doing fine != company rebound.
3) People buy phones to make calls. People buy smartphones for the other functions that they can perform. It is ironic that you of all people make this argument, given your vehement hysterics about how the iPhone was inferior because it couldn't do cut and paste...a core phone feature, I am sure.
4) This can't be a serious response. Pres Mass Storage interface identifies it as an iPod. The USB root node identifies itself as a pre. It will be trivial for Apple to prevent the pre sync with iTunes. Palm is using a hack that can be easily shut down. You said you were a hotshot developer for a major software company, this should have been obvious to you. (is working as a contract IT Specialist with IBM considered a dev position now? Is IBM still considered a software company anymore?) No, Apple did not enable this. This does not preclude them from disabling it.
5)You have a point. Smaller can be better. I personally prefer the size of the iPhone screen and feel it is about as small as a smart phone screen can be and still be usable. The pre's screen might be a little small to try cramming a usable soft keyboard on there.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
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