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Review roundup: Palm's Pre and its fledgeling WebOS - Page 3

post #81 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by drdb View Post

No. not the end of the story. You then have to ask the question do you want to go messing about swapping batteries? How many do you have to keep around?

I've had mobile phones for nearly 10 years now and I've never kept a spare battery, I expect enough life from the one already in there to get me through.

Let's not forget that until iPhone 2.1 OS came out, the iPhone 3G's battery life was complete shiite. My iPhone 3G died after 24 hours of not being plugged in. In fact I completely panicd when I woke up the next morning and found my iPhone dead--I contemplated taking it to the Genius Bar until I realized that all iPhone just had a really, really crappy battery life.

I expect the Pre's battery life to improve with their software updates as well.
post #82 of 273
I've got a suggestion for you -- indeed, a potential business opportunity.

Why don't you create a new forum, say, called "PalmInsider" and take it from there. If, as you would predict, Pre will rule and iPhone tank, then you'll stand to gain.

And, a lot of us here on AppleInsider will be better off too.

Pleeeeeeeaase..........?
post #83 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The embargo on Palms new Pre smartphone has lifted and multiple reviews are now online describing the highly-anticipated iPhone competitor, which goes on sale this Saturday, June 6 at Sprint, Best Buy, and Radio Shack stores across the U.S where it will fetch $199 after rebates and a two-year service commitment.

Concerns about the keyboard and battery life are common threads in many of the reviews, though most compliment the Pre's multi-tasking ability and subtle notification system. Additionally, it's evident that very few 3rd-party applications will be available at its launch.

The Wall Street Journal's Walt Mossberg
The Pre is "potentially the strongest iPhone rival to date, provided it attracts lots of third-party apps, which it sorely lacks at launch."
Its keyboard is the Pres "biggest advantage over the iPhone."
The Pre comes with an over-the-air back-up service that backs up all of your data without requiring any input from the user.
Video and music synchronization is done through iTunes. Palm "figured how to make iTunes think a Pre is an iPhone or iPod, and the software acts accordingly" which "worked perfectly."
At launch, the Pres answer to Apples App Store the App Catalog only contains about 12 apps and is the Pres "biggest disadvantage." During Mossbergs testing, downloading an app made his Pre "crash disastrously" causing all of his data to be erased and the Pre was not able to connect to any wireless network.
Mossberg talks about the expected iPhone and the upcoming 3.0 firmware in his review, noting, "the new iPhone to be unveiled next week will have a lot of added features," and "I expect to see an iPhone with up to 32 gigabytes of memory, video recording, a higher-resolution camera, a compass, and a great operating speed."
The least expensive voice and data plan for the Pre matches the cost of the iPhones on AT&T at $70 per month, but Sprint includes unlimited text messaging, whereas this is an extra cost with AT&T.
New York Times' David Pogue
The Pre is "exactly the right size. Its smaller than the iPhone... and therefore more comfortable as a phone."
The unlimited voice, data, and messaging plan from Sprint costs "$240 a year less than AT&T."
Despite having tiny keys, Pogue found it "faster and less frustrating than typing on glass."
The Pres new WebOS operating system is "attractive, fluid and exciting." Compared to the iPhone, multitasking is possible.
Though the Pre has a user-replaceable battery unlike the iPhone its battery life is "the Pres hearbreaker." The battery in Pogues Pre usually died in the late afternoon or evening.
While Pogue feels that the Pre is a "spectacular achievement," he also notes that the iPhone isnt going away" and that "Apples lead of 20 million phones will only grow when the new iPhone 3.0 software (and, presumably, a third iPhone model) come out shortly."
Pogue doesnt feel the Pre is perfect, describing that "opening certain programs can be very slow," and that "theres no progress bar or hourglass to let you know that its still working." Additionally, its not possible to expand the Pres internal storage, no visual voicemail to match the iPhone, and the universal search function "wont look through your e-mail or calendars."
USA Today's Ed Baig
Baig found the Pre "easy on the eyes," and "cant think of a more comfortable cell phone" in his hand.
Baig notes the touchscreen gesture similarities between the Pre and iPhone, but describes that "what sets the Pre apart is the way it lets you keep multiple live applications open at once..."
The Pre was not without faults, and Baig "encountered occasional sluggishness and bugs." He experienced problems with the clock and icons "dancing around." Despite the Pres more subtle notifications method, Baig still wished for visual voicemail, as did David Pogue.
Baig notes that theres no on-screen virtual keyboard to supplement the physical slide-out one, and that "at times, I would have liked the option..."
Though its possible to sync media via iTunes, buying music from iTunes on the Pre is not possible. However, the Pre is "integrated with the Amazon MP3 store, so you can sample and purchase songs on the fly." Similar to behavior in earlier iPhone firmware versions, the Pre must be on a Wi-Fi network to download music, though it can be previewed while on Sprints cellular network.
At launch, the Pre doesnt have a leg up on the iPhone in one area: "The browser doesnt support the Adobe Flash video standard. Palm and Adobe hope to deliver the capability in the future."
Overall, Baig feels that "Palm has delivered a device that will keep it in the game and give it a chance to star in it."

The Associated Press' Peter Svensson
The AP review of the Palm Pre is replete for praise for the device, claiming it is a "remarkable achievement" and that it "makes the iPhone look clunky."
The Synergy concept that pulls your PIM data from sources such as Google and Facebook is described as "very cool." Hardware-wise, the Pre is "well put together, but not exceptional."
Battery life was seen as an issue, prompting dismay after the battery died with "less than 24 hours of light use out of it." One cause is a "bug that drains the battery if your Google instant-messaging account is connected to your AOL Instant Messenger account." Palm is planning a fix for this bug.
The Pres keyboard "isnt the best" but is "much easier to use than the iPhones onscreen keyboard."
Amazingly, the AP preferred the Pres 3-megapixel camera "over the 8-megapixel one in the Sony Ericsson C905" since the Pres has "very little shutter lag."
CNet's Bonnie Cha
Overall, CNet was "impressed with the Palm WebOS" but found that there were "some hardware and performance issues" as well as "a few missing features."
Most notably missing are video recording and voice dialing, though "Palm has said that these features can be added later through an over-the-air update."
The Pres multi-tasking ability with its cards concept and its unique notification system are "what makes it special and they are areas where the Pre beats the iPhone or any smartphone on the market right now."
Like David Pogue, Cha found the battery life to be poor, which, combined with the Pres sluggishness, causes her to think its not "the best device for business users or road warriors."
Cha praised the Pres screen, claiming that its "one of the main highlights of the phone." Though its slightly smaller than the iPhones at 3.1 inches measured diagonally, Cha says its "on par with, if not just slightly crisper looking than, the iPhones screen."
Though its user interface is "very sleek and fresh," the Pre "isnt the most intuitive device to use, at least at first."
Like other reviewers, Cha found the Pres keyboard to be small and "clearly not as easy to use as a Blackberry or some of Samsungs and Nokias QWERTY devices..."
Users who want to sync PIM data from a Mac or PC desktop client will need to take a few additional steps to first sync their data to a Google account, which will then need to be linked to the Pre. Current Treo or other Palm phone users can take advantage of a free download from Palm, the Data Transfer Assistant, that will do a one-time transfer of data from your desktop PIM application.
Other reviews

For those interested, Gizmodo, Engadget and PCWorld have also weighed in on the Pre with their own reviews.










I am indeed a hardcore apple iphone user. i will not totally hate on the new palm pre. i have been waiting for palm to come out with a new phone. One of the up sides to the palm is the fact that you are able to multi task and have multiple applications running at once. However, the battery life decreases significantly while doing this, The palm pre now has an application store, but at the time of launch there will not be very many apps for consumers, apple already has an established app store with thousands of apps and coming out with hundreds more with the launch of os 3.0 It is true that the palm pre is the iphones biggest competitor to date, but my biggest point is that it would be nice to have a palm pre, but on sprints network? I have had sprint at one point and the network coverage just did not do it for me. Palms pre sounds like a good device, but i would wait to get it after sprints exclusive contract ends after 6 months and possibly verizon or at&t get a version of it.
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post #84 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

We can certainly give it a 2 year slack for video like the iPhone can't we?

No, we can't. People like you bitched about it since DAY ONE, so now, two and a half years later, the wonderful Pre can't do video or flash? I don't even care that it can't do it - i just want you to shut up about all the "shortcomings" the iphone has. Maybe the apple-hating Pre fanboys have realized it's OK to forego some features if it means the overall phone is better.
post #85 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

No, we can't. People like you bitched about it since DAY ONE, so now, two and a half years later, the wonderful Pre can't do video or flash? I don't even care that it can't do it - i just want you to shut up about all the "shortcomings" the iphone has. Maybe the apple-hating Pre fanboys have realized it's OK to forego some features if it means the overall phone is better.

Dude it's brand spankin new. Video and flash are on the way lol

I mean, it took Apple a while to bring video, and we know they won't let flash in, so any sensible person would give Palm a little time to get video working. It's just how things work.
post #86 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by drdb View Post

No. not the end of the story. You then have to ask the question do you want to go messing about swapping batteries? How many do you have to keep around?

Teckdud is going to use his mail-in rebate to buy two spare batteries, effectively increasing the cost of his Pre by $100. But he'll feel like he's getting a deal, since the rebate won't come for 6 weeks and it will seem like "free money" at that point.
post #87 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

Teckdud is going to use his mail-in rebate to buy two spare batteries, effectively increasing the cost of his Pre by $100. But he'll feel like he's getting a deal, since the rebate won't come for 6 weeks and it will seem like "free money" at that point.

That won't cover the gym membership he's got for building muscles to carry the 60 extra batteries he carries round just to be safe.
post #88 of 273
Pre "Media Sync" mode USB hack confirmed:

Quote:
when the Pre is in “Media Sync” mode it identifies itself as an Apple iPod. However, it’s only the Mass Storage interface that identifies itself as an iPod. The root USB node (IOUSBDevice) still identifies the device as a Palm Pre (not visible in the image above). This means that Apple can very easily update iTunes to block the Pre.

Understand (as has been repeatedly stated, but doesn't seem to be sinking in) this is not the standard way of making a device work with iTunes. They've hacked the USB identifiers.

If an iTunes update breaks the Pre's sync, it's not a case of Apple making sure that nobody can use iTunes but them, since that obviously isn't true-- other devices can make use the of iTunes data base just fine. It would be a matter of Palm having gone out on a limb to tweak Apple's nose, and having it come back to bite them in the ass.
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post #89 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Safari will continue to evolve, but Apple's iPhone OS isn't going to drive Web Apps on the iPhone as their first solution for development on the iPhone. The SDK is the future of the iPhone. They'll add more functionality with those native applications to interact with Safari, but it won't be a priority driving through Safari when you open up APIs and allow developers to drive profits through native apps.

I don't disagree with you. My post was more of "I hope they do" than a prediction. If you look at the current app store, so many of the apps are really not apps at all and would not only be easier to do as web-apps instead, but also more efficient.

I just think it would be a cool master stroke to re-jigger mobile Safari to completely subsume WebOS. If Apple could say that anything that runs on WebOS also runs on the iPhone they could effectively eliminate any advantage the Pre has.

The only other advantage the Pre has is the integration of it's parts and the multitasking which are both due to be eliminated by iPhone OS 3.0 to a large degree already. If they can also run all of the Pres apps as they appear, I can't think of any real reason to buy a Pre over an iPhone.
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post #90 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

If an iTunes update breaks the Pre's sync, it's not a case of Apple making sure that nobody can use iTunes but them, since that obviously isn't true-- other devices can make use the of iTunes data base just fine. It would be a matter of Palm having gone out on a limb to tweak Apple's nose, and having it come back to bite them in the ass.

Palm showed iTunes syncing as an FU to apple. I would bet money Apple disables the feature in a future iTunes update. Then all the precious Pre-boys will have to find another way to sync data. Palm will then play cat-and-mouse against iTunes updates.
post #91 of 273
I cannot say a noticed a huge difference in iPhone battery life after 2.1. Its possibly somewhat better but certainly not dramatically better.

Battery life completely depends on how much you use the device. The more you use the web and play games the less battery life. If you mostly use the iPhone to make phone calls the battery can last for a couple of days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skittlebrau79 View Post

Let's not forget that until iPhone 2.1 OS came out, the iPhone 3G's battery life was complete shiite. My iPhone 3G died after 24 hours of not being plugged in. In fact I completely panicd when I woke up the next morning and found my iPhone dead--I contemplated taking it to the Genius Bar until I realized that all iPhone just had a really, really crappy battery life.

I expect the Pre's battery life to improve with their software updates as well.
post #92 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I just think it would be a cool master stroke to re-jigger mobile Safari to completely subsume WebOS. If Apple could say that anything that runs on WebOS also runs on the iPhone they could effectively eliminate any advantage the Pre has.

Anybody remember when Jobs announced web apps for the iphone? The SDK was clearly en route but not ready at the time. The collective MOAN from the audience was audible from miles away. Now web apps are the future of mobile devices?? UNREAL!!
post #93 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I've got a suggestion for you -- indeed, a potential business opportunity.

Why don't you create a new forum, say, called "PalmInsider" and take it from there. If, as you would predict, Pre will rule and iPhone tank, then you'll stand to gain.

And, a lot of us here on AppleInsider will be better off too.

Pleeeeeeeaase..........?

Just because the Pre gets raves - you're all upset? Boo-hoo. No other smartphones are allowed to exist?
post #94 of 273
For Palm to survive this depression they need Steve Jobs.
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post #95 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Just because the Pre gets raves - you're all upset? Boo-hoo. No other smartphone are aloud to exist?

i always knew you were an idiot.

Permitted = allowed
out loud = aloud

And the Pre is not getting "rave" reviews, it's getting solid reviews, with notable drawbacks.
post #96 of 273
Why is it considered an "embargo lifted" when then Pre gets reviewed 2 days in advance of release? Since when do iPhones ever get reviewed prior to release? Why is that not considered an "embargo lifted" as well?
post #97 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

i always knew you're an idiot.

Permitted = allowed
out loud - aloud

And the Pre is not getting "rave" reviews, it's getting solid reviews, with notable drawbacks.

I simply typing faster than I can think, fool. Is this a spelling bee now?
post #98 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Since when do iPhones ever get reviewed prior to release?

um, since last year when the same mainstream press outslets all had iphone 3g reviews

WSJ
USA Today
etc
etc
post #99 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

And the Pre is not getting "rave" reviews, it's getting solid reviews, with notable drawbacks.

Ok then, like the iPhone got.
post #100 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by skittlebrau79 View Post

Let's not forget that until iPhone 2.1 OS came out, the iPhone 3G's battery life was complete shiite. My iPhone 3G died after 24 hours of not being plugged in. In fact I completely panicd when I woke up the next morning and found my iPhone dead--I contemplated taking it to the Genius Bar until I realized that all iPhone just had a really, really crappy battery life.

I expect the Pre's battery life to improve with their software updates as well.

to quote one of the local reviews on the pre

Quote:
When I first got the Pre, I was dismayed by its battery life. I got less than 24 hours of light use out of it, and it would lose nearly a third of its charge if left inactive overnight.

It turns out there's a bug that drains the battery if your Google instant-messaging account is connected to your AOL Instant Messenger account. Palm says it will fix that. When I logged Google out of AIM, I got much longer life.

I extended battery life even further by setting the Pre to receive my personal email instantly rather than checking every 15 minutes. That's counterintuitive - usually getting the email automatically "pushed" to a device consumes more power.

I ended up with nearly two days of battery life, which I think is acceptable for a hardworking smart phone. But it would be great if Palm made it easier to manage power consumption.
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post #101 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I simply typing faster than I can think, fool. Is this a spelling bee now?

Nope, not a spelling bee at all. You spelled the word correctly - but it was the wrong word. Homonyms can be tricky sometimes, it's OK!
post #102 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Ok then, like the iPhone got.

actually i'm pretty sure the iPhone got rave reviews when it was released. Incremental updates since then have been "solid" at best because people like you expect too much. Then, when it's shown to be easier said than done (ya know, like Flash and voice dialing) it's all of a sudden OK to not have those features. Just give up, dude. Everybody here knows you're an ass.
post #103 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

WHEN??DATES?? Are you that stupid to not post them?

i'm not doing a simple google search for you. Learn to fly on your own - you know the reviews exist.
post #104 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I just think it would be a cool master stroke to re-jigger mobile Safari to completely subsume WebOS. If Apple could say that anything that runs on WebOS also runs on the iPhone they could effectively eliminate any advantage the Pre has.

The iPhone can currently run web apps outside of Safari if the app is designed to do so. It hasn't been something that Apple has actively encouraged or promoted. My guess would be that Apple is waiting to integrate HTML 5 features into WebKit before pushing its development features. I agree many native apps would work fine as web apps and save the developer from having to develop native apps for every phone. I think given time developers will discover this advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

Anybody remember when Jobs announced web apps for the iphone? The SDK was clearly en route but not ready at the time. The collective MOAN from the audience was audible from miles away. Now web apps are the future of mobile devices?? UNREAL!!

I think Apple's web app explanation sounded like a stop gap measure. Apple did not offer web apps any extensive access to system resources, which is what Apple needs to do for iPhone web apps to behave like webOS apps.
post #105 of 273
The iPhone got rave reviews with some drawbacks. There was nothing exactly like the iPhone when it was first introduced. The Pre is gaining the distinction of the first phone to offer most of the advantages of the iPhone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Ok then, like the iPhone got.
post #106 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

actually i'm pretty sure the iPhone got rave reviews when it was released. Incremental updates since then have been "solid" at best because people like you expect too much. Then, when it's shown to be easier said than done (ya know, like Flash and voice dialing) it's all of a sudden OK to not have those features. Just give up, dude. Everybody here knows you're an ass.

Actually - you are. And I'm not responding to your idiotic post anymore because you're not worthy.
The Pre reviews have really affected you today, so sorry.
post #107 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

i'm not doing a simple google search for you. Learn to fly on your own - you know the reviews exist.

And so like then why was that not also an "embargo lifted" as well, ****?

EDIT:

Come on dude, you know better!
post #108 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

The Pre reviews have really affected you today, so sorry.

You're right. Miserable battery performance and non-existant Apps have affected me - I feel much more confident now about the upcoming iPhone update than I did yesterday.
post #109 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

And so like then why was that not also an "embargo lifted" as well, ****?

I didn't write the article, big guy.
post #110 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

I didn't write the article, big guy.

Ok then you agree with me but just like to fight? Pathetic.
When will the embargo be lifted on the 3rd gen iPhone? Why is it not available NOW?
post #111 of 273
Folks we finally have the iphone killer, Apple and iphone you are dead.
post #112 of 273
The bickering is getting a little old
post #113 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Ok then you agree with me but just like to fight? Pathetic.
When will the embargo be lifted on the 3rd gen iPhone? Why is it not available NOW?

I like to fight because you're a bonafide troll.

The "embargo" is not lifted because we're not on the eve of a retail release. Let's see what WWDC brings, then let's see when new iPhones go on sale. Then, in my opinion, you'll likely see official reviews pop up in the week leading up to the on-sale date, which will probably be in July (like last year).

Edit - I might add, as far as Apple goes regarding the iPhone, despite notorious secrecy, they typically show their full hand ahead of release (ie, at WWDC) then let the anticipation grow before it goes on sale. There are very few surprises by the time the device is actually in consumers hands.
post #114 of 273
Quote:
Folks we finally have the iphone killer, Apple and iphone you are dead.

Yes. Apple certainly cannot survive the introduction of a phone.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #115 of 273
An embargo is a government restriction on trade or commerce. The next iPhone isn't under an embargo it hasn't been announced yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Ok then you agree with me but just like to fight? Pathetic.
When will the embargo be lifted on the 3rd gen iPhone? Why is it not available NOW?
post #116 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Yes. Apple certainly cannot survive the introduction of a phone.

sell your stock!
post #117 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

Folks we finally have the iphone killer, Apple and iphone you are dead.

Apple is dooooomed!


post #118 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Can you swap the Pre's battery? End of story.

End of story? For who? I have a first-gen iPhone bought on Opening Day (June 29, 2007), and I still only charge it every third day.

Look, everything - EVERYTHING (not just phones) - that you buy today is a compromise in one way or another. The iPhone's non-removable battery is just one example. Do you think that Apple designed it that way just to tick everyone off, or could it be that it allowed for more (or better) components in an already crowed space? End of story for you, perhaps, but not for me.
post #119 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

In a similar vein does anyone think that Apples open-source support is altruistic in any way?

Yeah, but Apple doesn't have my data. And where they do have it (mobileme) it's a lot more defined then Google...
post #120 of 273
Why don't the apps make full use of the screen? Seems like wasted space to me.
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