or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Cheaper iPhone may show as early as Monday
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Cheaper iPhone may show as early as Monday - Page 5

post #161 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

To pre-empt competition. Apple right now does not have any competition, but it needs to strengthen its position, since the competition is coming.

The Pre is a worthy competitor, according to most reviews, but might be a couple of years too late. OTOH, some of the future Android phones could really compete, and Apple needs to establish dominance early, so Developers mainly develop for their OS and not others...

The pre will sell very very well and will be around for a long time. For what it is and what it can do, I think the pre is not so bad.
For the people who don't like the iphone and don't like the glass keyboard the Pre should fill that hole.
IF the Pre's tiny keyboard gains wide acceptance.
IF the Pre short battery life and constant battery replacing is also widely acceptable. Of note for $70 bucks, the Pre has the coolest phone charger ever.
IF the pre can get away with their itunes link up for long. And their touch screen may also break some of apple's patent's. Go here. http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/...-legal-threat/
IF these above things happen and Palm's addresse's Pre's other shortfalls then the pre will sell million's. And have it rightful place besides the iphone.

Developers already know about Web os. And they will write a bunch of cool apps for the Pre. Not 1/4 as large as the iphone's app store but as large as the other players are offering or will offer. It will take 2 years to build even a small strong app store.

Remember folks this is PALM with scores of old ex-apple people on board now. And just because all the pundits and their ilk say no developers will write for the Pre does not make it so.

Just saying.


peace
whats in a name ? 
beatles
Reply
whats in a name ? 
beatles
Reply
post #162 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by elliots11 View Post

That's a pretty hard line to take. It's like there's this take it or leave it position and the deal that is currently offered for the 3G is all that is and will ever be. The iPhone has been out for two years now. If they want to sell anymore in the US while still stuck to AT&T (maybe) they'll have to address what customers want, which two potential customers just illustrated.

Apple's got the fanboys and tech toy lovers who will bend their wants and wallets to get the most awesome gadgets. Now they may be going after ubiquity by taking over the smartphone/handheld computer market in much the same way that Windows dominated the desktop market early on, by getting everybody they can to jump on board and becoming the de facto standard. Their computers may be oriented toward the well off, but the iphone doesn't have to be.

To become ubiquitous they have to meet the customers halfway, and a lot of that has to do with pricing, and the model that they've been using may very well change with the introduction of these new iphones. I for one hope it does.

I THINK Apple will go for ubiquity (>50% of market) with lower prices coupled with lesser capability, but it's with an expectation of what the world will be like two years from now. Apple fully expects that phones with data (i.e. smartphone or handheld computer) will be rapidly gaining market share and becoming the norm, while voice-only phones become a dying commodity (like VCRs, DVD players, data modems, wired/cordless phones).

As I wrote earlier, Apple has a window of opportunity of at least one year before the big boys (NOK, MSFT, GOOG, RIMM) get all three - solid device, OS and App Store - done well (assuming they can really "get it" and change their ways.)

However, I THINK there are several things that Apple will not do: A voice-only phone. A physical keyboard. A removable battery. That's take it or leave it. So when people ask for those things from Apple, they're just not understanding Apple's vision, values, and principles.

My expectation:
iPhone Video/Pro (video rec/edit/up/down/conf, HSPA 7.2Mbps): $199 for 16GB, $299 for 32GB
iPhone (no video, basic UMTS 3.6Mbps): $99 for 4GB, $149 for 8GB
iPhone China (TD-SCDMA) for China Mobile only: in two storage capacities
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
post #163 of 208
Nobody, in any generation, should write that way. It's simply rude. Trying to defend it makes you look shameless. Nothing new there.
post #164 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by L. Angry View Post

Nobody, in any generation, should write that way. It's simply rude. Trying to defend it makes you look shameless. Nothing new there.

Who are you responding to?
post #165 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The value of flat rate service can be a bit complex to determine. When I first got a mobile phone back in 1998. I paid Sprint $50 for 500 minutes a month. Now I pay AT&T $45 for 450 minutes a month. At last as far as daytime service nothing has changed in the dollar cost per minute over ten years. I don't talk a whole lot on the phone, with roll over minutes I have nearly 2000 daytime minutes stored in my roll over account. It can be argued I'm getting a better value for $45 than I did for $50 ten years ago.

I'm talking about minutes actually used. Only if you use all 450 minutes is your cost $0.10/minute. Anything less than that and the cost per minute increases. Apparently the average actual cost per minute of talk actually used is close to $3.00. This surprised me when I heard about it too, but it seems to be supported by surveys.
Please don't be insane.
Reply
Please don't be insane.
Reply
post #166 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I'm talking about minutes actually used. Only if you use all 450 minutes is your cost $0.10/minute. Anything less than that and the cost per minute increases. Apparently the average actual cost per minute of talk actually used is close to $3.00. This surprised me when I heard about it too, but it seems to be supported by surveys.

Hmm How old is that survey? Was it focused on the iPhone, which is a different beast than the average cellphone plan. Was it focusing on certain type of phones, users, or plans? With AT&Ts rollover minutes your minutes arent lost and can be used later without a per minute charge so that figure isnt as easily discernible as the article you read may have implied.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #167 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by iBill View Post

What's keeping me from switching from Sprint is the fact that AT&T doesn't have a plan that meets my needs. It really has little to do with the upfront price of the iPhone.

I agree and would add that in my case a data plan would be worthless to me as I don't travel except to and from work, both of which have computers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmafan420 View Post

Wow! A WHOLE $100 drop?!? KEWL D00D!

Seriously, does anyone think this is going to increase ownership by 100%?!?

Obviously the true cost is paying for AT$T's crappy service.

I have 2 3Gs, 2 other phones, and unlimited "texting" and my phone bill is well over $200 per month or $4,800 over the life of the contract. Add my two $200 phones and I get to $5,200.

Does ANYONE think dropping this to $5,000 is really gonna be a deal maker for anyone

I hope you can deduct much of this cost as a business expense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtotes View Post

From Apple's historic behaviour it's clear that they are more interested in a quality product than achieving mass market acceptance in a short period.

True, but offering or not offering a data plan or a tiered plan would have nothing to do with quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpellino View Post

I use a plain old cell phone and an iPod Touch. If I could get an iPhone that kept my monthly cost the same as my plain old phone *and* did what the iPod Touch does via WiFi, I'd bite. Until then IMHO it's not worth doubling my monthly cell bill just to get a few more bells and whistles. I wonder how many are in this same place?

I would prefer not having to carry 2 devices at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I have 2 friends that want the exact same thing- iPhone without data plan. No need to get addictied to the messaging. All they want is a phone/iPod combo.

I suspect there are a lot of people who would gladly go without a data plan, oh wait, most consumers already do, they just don't buy smart phones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

why would anybody get an iPhone if you don't want the data? That's the whole point of the iPhone. If you just want a basic phone and an ipod, then buy a basic phone and an iPod.

I would prefer not having to carry 2 devices at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

Touch not a phone. I hadn't realized that - thanks.

I believe what you are discussing is an iPhone with limited / no data contract? As i said before, AT&T can't afford the iPhone subsidy without the data revenue. The only solution to that is higher up front cost. If you're fine with that, then great. However, the additional upfront cost, in MY opinion, might as well be spent on an iPod Touch. Smartphones are all about mobile data access. What's the point of all the glitz if it only makes phone calls?? This applies to all smartphones, not just the iPhone.

I don't need a data plan, but would really appreciate the seamless integration with iTunes, Calender, etc and the occasional game and etc. etc. etc. The iPhone is much much more than what the data plan offers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post

terribly sorry for the confusion. I thought most reasonable readers would understand i meant, "AT&T cannot price the iphone at the current levels if the contracts do not include data revenue." If you drop the data portion, AT&T will simply lower their subsidy hence raising the price. I've said all this before, but apparently I need to spell it out for you people.

Now, do i need to provide a link to support something as common sense as that?

What people really think is that they ought to have whatever products they want, pay whatever they want, and get as many options and choices as they want. What they don't understand is that the iPhone & AT&T are not a monopoly. Dont like their prices? See ya later, plenty of other phones to choose from. Let the large corporations decide how to best run their businesses, and stop pretending like you know something they don't. "They're missing a huge untapped market for XYZ." No, they're not.

Yes they are, most phones sold do not have a data plan. Yes, subsidies pay for some of the upfront cost, but the monthly cost never ends. Assuming the 2 year contract covers the subsidy, why not lower the monthly cost? Ah, the gift that keeps on giving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

You might, but the majority does want a subsidized phones. Apple sold in 6 months of subsidized iPhone 3G what they have sold in a whole year before subsidizing.
I do remember SJ saying that the iPhone will switch to Wifi when in range "to save" money or something like that. I think they figured a $20 for a mandatory data plan is not a big deal at that time since the original iPhone had no competition then.
I do agree that the $30 data plan, even though cheaper than the optional $35 one, is still high for those who don't need unlimited access. The problem is that everyone now is doing it and it doesn't seem like it is going away completely (maybe lower price in the future).

If initial cost is not problem for you, you can buy a brand new officially unlocked, without a contract, and unsubsidized iPhone from ebay for $750 include shipping to the US. If every phone manufacturer tried to meet the requirement and desires of every single buyer then we would have 2 billion phone models.

In the US you're still obligated to use AT&T no matter where you get your iPhone, new or used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

If you don't want or need data at all, you don't need an iPhone. (If you want data and voice just when you're in range of a wi-fi hotspot, you get an iPod touch.)

Now Apple could make another phone for voice only users. But it wouldn't be an iPhone, and Apple wouldn't ask the carrier for almost $600 dollars for it. (Why is it not an iPhone? Because Jobs said at least ten times during the debut in Jan 2007 that iPhone is a phone, iPod, and Internet communicator.)

The only obstacle is that Apple is not interested in making just a voice phone, in the same way, that they are not interested in making modems or wired/cordless phones or DVD players. They don't care that millions of people are still buying such things; those are not things that will continue to have growth five years from now. Apple is not interested in getting every one of your consumer electronics dollars; if they are going to introduce something new, it has to be in a market that they project to be growing in the next decade. And to them, a voice-only phone is not it.

And many people, me included, reserve the right to express our opinions that we would appreciate an iPhone without a data plan or with a tiered data plan. Its our right, just as it is Apple's right to not offer one and your right to some how believe its not our right to express our opinions.
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
Reply
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
Reply
post #168 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickag View Post

I agree and would add that in my case a data plan would be worthless to me as I don't travel except to and from work, both of which have computers.

I hope you can deduct much of this cost as a business expense.

That usually doesn't do too much. Tax deductions usually reduce your taxable income, not your actual tax bill. If you're at a 20% tax rate, you cut your tax bill by $1000 of a $5000 expense.
post #169 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I'm talking about minutes actually used. Only if you use all 450 minutes is your cost $0.10/minute. Anything less than that and the cost per minute increases. Apparently the average actual cost per minute of talk actually used is close to $3.00. This surprised me when I heard about it too, but it seems to be supported by surveys.

Do you happen to remember what survey? I can't find any surveys about that.

Looking at this month, I'm clocking in at about $0.30. But my monthly cycle isn't done yet.
post #170 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickag View Post

And many people, me included, reserve the right to express our opinions that we would appreciate an iPhone without a data plan or with a tiered data plan. Its our right, just as it is Apple's right to not offer one and your right to some how believe its not our right to express our opinions.

And when and where exactly did I state that you had no right to express your opinion? Jeesh. Read my words again. You made that up maybe because that's the chip you have on your shoulder.

If you rant about it like you expect Apple to deliver what you want, or that Apple must deliver what you want, then you're just ranting. There's zero probability of it happening. (Just like those who've been saying for years now that Apple must deliver a mid-priced Mac tower.)
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
post #171 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

And when and where exactly did I state that you had no right to express your opinion? Jeesh. Read my words again. You made that up maybe because that's the chip you have on your shoulder.

There does seem to be a bit of a certain tone to what you wrote though. It looked to me that you are telling people what they should and shouldn't get in a manner that seems a bit curt.

Quote:
If you don't want or need data at all, you don't need an iPhone. (If you want data and voice just when you're in range of a wi-fi hotspot, you get an iPod touch.)

Statements like this, to me, completely ignores the (IMO) legitimate use of having an iPod with a phone. Your statement is basically saying to carry two devices instead of one, when Apple already makes the one device that can function for both uses. To say that it has to be a separate device to not offer a data plan is silly, that features doesn't have to be used. Very few people use their devices to the fullest extent of its capabilities, some features just go unused by some people, other features get unused by other people.
post #172 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Hmm How old is that survey? Was it focused on the iPhone, which is a different beast than the average cellphone plan. Was it focusing on certain type of phones, users, or plans? With AT&Ts rollover minutes your minutes arent lost and can be used later without a per minute charge so that figure isnt as easily discernible as the article you read may have implied.

Very recent.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...4417313.column

The value of rollover minutes can be easily discounted I think. You have to use them to get any value from them. If you're rolling over minutes regularly, this suggests that you're not using the monthly minutes you bought. The conclusion of the study is that most people buy a lot more minutes than they use. I suspect this is why the providers like to offer rollover plans. Although it sounds good, if you never use up your minutes, the rollover is pretty much worthless.
Please don't be insane.
Reply
Please don't be insane.
Reply
post #173 of 208
If you buy an Iphone from AT&T, are you forced to have a data plan or not? What is the cheapest monthly charge you can get with the iphone?
whats in a name ? 
beatles
Reply
whats in a name ? 
beatles
Reply
post #174 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

The value of rollover minutes can be easily discounted I think. You have to use them to get any value from them. If you're rolling over minutes regularly, this suggests that you're not using the monthly minutes you bought.

You do make a good argument,but I wouldnt call them worthless. I like the security of knowing that unused minutes arent necessarily disappearing each month, which allows me to get a cheaper plan knowing that if I do start using more minutes with get me close to my in-plan allowance, or even past it, that I wont be charged additional per-minute pricing until the minute bank is used. So, I agree that people do buy more minutes than they use, but that rollover allows you the peace of mind of not having to purchase an even larger amount per month, thereby reducing the pre-minute cost.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #175 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickag View Post

In the US you're still obligated to use AT&T no matter where you get your iPhone, new or used.

Well I'll try again as I got no answer last time... AT&T must have a contingency plan for iPhone owners who are just about to come to the end of their two year contract.

Anybody know what that is?

I just recently checked with O2 in the UK. When your contract is over (18 months) they supply an unlock code and you can transfer to another carrier.
post #176 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

Well I'll try again as I got no answer last time... AT&T must have a contingency plan for iPhone owners who are just about to come to the end of their two year contract.

Anybody know what that is?

I just recently checked with O2 in the UK. When your contract is over (18 months) they supply an unlock code and you can transfer to another carrier.

Im not sure I understand what you mean by contingency plan? The next iPhone would be the contingency. Anyone who was using the original iPhone when the iPhone 3G came out could upgrade without a penalty by just renewing their contract for 2 years. This unusual, one time situation between profit sharing and subsidization made it very easy and financially reasonable for many to upgrade in the US.

AT&T is not required to unlock any phones and doing so, especially for the iPhone 3G, is a bit pointless since the US carriers are split between standards right now. Id think that pretty much anyone who wanted to use the original iPhone on T-Mobile, the only other major GSM-based carrier, would have done so by now.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #177 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Im not sure I understand what you mean by contingency plan?

Sorry. Perhaps I wasn't too clear. With AT&T... when your 2 year iPhone contract is over... what options do they provide?

Can you keep the iPhone and select a cheaper non-data plan?
Can you transfer the iPhone to another carrier?

I am in the UK and I don't know what the legal situation is in the US... but everybody signs a two year contract... there must be some options (other than upgrade) at the end of it.
post #178 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Statements like this, to me, completely ignores the (IMO) legitimate use of having an iPod with a phone. Your statement is basically saying to carry two devices instead of one, when Apple already makes the one device that can function for both uses. To say that it has to be a separate device to not offer a data plan is silly, that features doesn't have to be used. Very few people use their devices to the fullest extent of its capabilities, some features just go unused by some people, other features get unused by other people.

Didn't mean to be curt, just stating what I believe Apple thinks about this based on all the things they've said in the past. First, Apple's vision, to which they are trying to move people, is for an always-connected voice and data handheld communicator/computer. Apple has always had visions and refused to offer a compromise. One can certainly state what one wants but should have little expectation whatsoever that Apple will widen their vision and accommodate it. So no point getting all worked up about it.

Second, on the cost front, the reality is that the real cost of an 8GB iPhone (assuming 30-35% net margin on the bottom line for Apple) was about $550. Today, a year since it was introed, it could be $450 (though I think Apple still asks for the $550 from AT&T). A voice-only two-year plan might be $40/mo yielding $960 over the life of the contract, with little likelihood of any add-on sales. Is that enough margin for AT&T? I don't know but compare it with what is currently happening. AT&T gets $1680 for the cheapest iPhone plan, for which it is paying $350 up-front (but could pay $250 if Apple would give up the new-found margin). Anyway, AT&T gets $1330 over two-years (with the possibility of another $480 if you add unlimited IM). AT&T is giving up almost 56% of its margin to give you a voice-only plan.

By the way, AT&T doesn't pay more than $100 (in subsidies) for most of its phones that don't require a data plan. And Apple wants a $350 subsidy for iPhone. You do the math.

One might say they're just using voice so they're not burdening AT&T's network and forcing them to invest in their network for data. But the future is data, and AT&T must build out, otherwise, they'll have a network that will soon have the same status as that old telephone network to your house. So AT&T is certainly not going to sell you their best phone to use for voice-only, when it's the best (only) thing that could push you to data.

Finally, Apple could make another phone, not an iPhone, since it wouldn't have the "Internet communicator." It would be a voice-only phone plus an iPod nano. It would use a cheaper processor and strip out wi-fi. Maybe it has no touch screen. And Apple could sell it for much cheaper than $250, maybe $200. But I'd bet Apple would say they couldn't do it, just like they can't build a "netbook" or any computer for under $500 that isn't junk.

I put in all this cost stuff, but in the end, it's the vision that drives this, both for Apple (computer platform) and for AT&T (data network).
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
post #179 of 208
Adding to my previous post, the iPhone is like a new powerful, fuel-efficient engine that you've just developed. Would you couple that great, brand new engine with a cheap car frame that sells for $15-20k, or with your best car frames that sell for $35-40k? Like most, one with go first with the more expensive, and then over time, move it down through the line to the cheaper. Same with iPhone - first with data-plan required, and then over time, no data plan required.

However, it is likely, that by that time, all voice will be VoIP, and really considered data, and there is no longer any such thing as a voice plan. We'll have to wait and see how it all evolves.
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
post #180 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

Sorry. Perhaps I wasn't too clear. With AT&T... when your 2 year iPhone contract is over... what options do they provide?

Can you keep the iPhone and select a cheaper non-data plan?
Can you transfer the iPhone to another carrier?

I am in the UK and I don't know what the legal situation is in the US... but everybody signs a two year contract... there must be some options (other than upgrade) at the end of it.

Good questions. It's always been possible to sign up for a new voice-only plan with AT&T, and supply your own phone. And that phone could be your old iPhone. If it was, would AT&T block you when you try to register it since you're on a voice-only plan?

Is there anyone out there who bought a used original iPhone (without taking over the original plan) and just started using it with their voice-only plan? Did AT&T let you?
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
post #181 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

If you buy an Iphone from AT&T, are you forced to have a data plan or not? What is the cheapest monthly charge you can get with the iphone?

Yes, data plan is required, and the cheapest total monthly charge for a regular individual plan is $69.99 for 450 minutes and unlimited data (no SMS).

You can also add an iPhone as an additional line on a regular family plan. In that case, its $9.99 for the extra line, and $30 for the data plan, for a total of $39.99 extra. For example, the cheapest family plan (voice-only) is $59.99 for 550 minutes a month (with rollover!). You can add an iPhone as the second phone and pay a total of $99.98 for 550 voice minutes with unlimited data for the iPhone.
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
post #182 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Although it sounds good, if you never use up your minutes, the rollover is pretty much worthless.

True, if you never use them, they're worthless, but rollover allows you to deal with fluctuations. One month you can use way more, and another, less, without getting stuck with extra minute charges.

When I'm traveling, on vacation with extended family, or when there is a major event like a wedding, I use way more minutes than when I and everyone else is just at home.
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
post #183 of 208
Nokia's average selling price (ASP) for all 93m phones it sold last quarter was 65 euros or US$91. And that averages in 8m high-priced ($600-800) N-series (and less expensive E-series) phones. Anyway, this might be the low-end extreme.

LG's ASP for all 22.6m phones it sold last quarter was US$123. Sony Ericsson's ASP for all 14.5m phones it sold last quarter was 121 euros or US$169. Most of LG's and SE's phones don't require data plans, but they are not always free with contract. So this might be at the higher-end. (Note that at these selling prices, LG made money, but SE lost 460m euros or US$643m over the last two quarters.)

Palm's ASP for the 482k smartphones it sold last quarter was US$161. And they lost money as well.

Conclusion: Most phones coupled with voice-only plans are very, very cheap to make (or are losing very, very much money for their companies.)

For comparison, I believe Apple said its ASP for iPhone was around $600 (8GB and 16GB). (I will try to find the link.)
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
post #184 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You do make a good argument,but I wouldnt call them worthless. I like the security of knowing that unused minutes arent necessarily disappearing each month, which allows me to get a cheaper plan knowing that if I do start using more minutes with get me close to my in-plan allowance, or even past it, that I wont be charged additional per-minute pricing until the minute bank is used. So, I agree that people do buy more minutes than they use, but that rollover allows you the peace of mind of not having to purchase an even larger amount per month, thereby reducing the pre-minute cost.

Sure, if you've bought a plan which provides you with close to the number of minutes you use on average. The study suggests that people tend to buy plans with more minutes than they use on average.
Please don't be insane.
Reply
Please don't be insane.
Reply
post #185 of 208
are just desperately lost in trying to figure out what else new and sensational remains to predict about iPhone.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply
post #186 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

And when and where exactly did I state that you had no right to express your opinion? Jeesh. Read my words again. You made that up maybe because that's the chip you have on your shoulder.

If you rant about it like you expect Apple to deliver what you want, or that Apple must deliver what you want, then you're just ranting. There's zero probability of it happening. (Just like those who've been saying for years now that Apple must deliver a mid-priced Mac tower.)

No, you didn't exactly say no one,"had no right to express your opinion?". However, your statement,"If you don't want or need data at all, you don't need an iPhone. (If you want data and voice just when you're in range of a wi-fi hotspot, you get an iPod touch.) " seems meant to end any further discussion. I guess I should have been more clear.

Were did I rant? I thought I was fairly strainght forward and used no ad hominem attacks. Maybe you misconstured my use of multi-quote and seemingly long post as a rant, but I have limited time to visit web sites and have begun to liberally use multi-quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

Well I'll try again as I got no answer last time... AT&T must have a contingency plan for iPhone owners who are just about to come to the end of their two year contract.

Anybody know what that is?

I just recently checked with O2 in the UK. When your contract is over (18 months) they supply an unlock code and you can transfer to another carrier.

Sorry, didn't notice your location. Hope, UK law or Carrier Policies, work in your favor allowing transfer to another carrier not requiring a data plan. I've heard, right or wrong, that in general, Europe and many other countries are way ahead of the US in cell phone policy.
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
Reply
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
Reply
post #187 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

The value of rollover minutes can be easily discounted I think. You have to use them to get any value from them. If you're rolling over minutes regularly, this suggests that you're not using the monthly minutes you bought. The conclusion of the study is that most people buy a lot more minutes than they use. I suspect this is why the providers like to offer rollover plans. Although it sounds good, if you never use up your minutes, the rollover is pretty much worthless.

I wouldn't go as far as calling roll over completely worthless. For most carriers if you don't use all of your minutes they go away for ever and the money you have spent on those unused minutes does go wasted. With roll over you have a year to use those unused minutes. Its true that if you never use roll over minutes at all then you are basically in the same situation as the person who does not have that option. I don't think having the option is worthless at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Sure, if you've bought a plan which provides you with close to the number of minutes you use on average. The study suggests that people tend to buy plans with more minutes than they use on average.

If you had a plan that provided you with close to the number of minutes you use, there would be no need for roll over. I like the concept of roll over because every month can be different. Some months I don't make many calls, some months I have used all of my daytime minutes and do go into my roll over minutes.
post #188 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

If you had a plan that provided you with close to the number of minutes you use, there would be no need for roll over. I like the concept of roll over because every month can be different. Some months I don't make many calls, some months I have used all of my daytime minutes and do go into my roll over minutes.

I dont think I expressed the value of rollpver minutes well enough in my previous post.

I have a similar (atypical perhaps) usage pattern. I have thousands of unused minutes but there is a few months a year that use well over my monthly allotment. If I didnt have this leeway feature Id probably just opt for a plan that gave more monthly minutes at a higher rate to make sure I had the peace of mind of not going over. That would surely make my per-minute cost considerably higher than it is now.

I know one person that gets unlimited everything just to make sure that he never has to worry about it a surprisingly high bill, even though the result in an unsurprisingly high phone bill that may be more than a metered plan over a years time.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #189 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickag View Post

Were did I rant? I thought I was fairly strainght forward and used no ad hominem attacks. Maybe you misconstured my use of multi-quote and seemingly long post as a rant, but I have limited time to visit web sites and have begun to liberally use multi-quote.

Sorry, I wasn't referring to you when I used the word "rant." That was meant for some other people who keep repeating the same thing over and over on these AI forums; I'm sure you've already figured out who they are. It's my policy never to respond directly to them when they do so; it's not worth the effort.
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
post #190 of 208
Daring Fireballs John Gruber chimes in on WWDC 2009 predictions. Except for his prediction on Marble I agree with everything he has stated.
http://daringfireball.net/2009/06/wwdc_2009_predictions
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #191 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

If you had a plan that provided you with close to the number of minutes you use, there would be no need for roll over. I like the concept of roll over because every month can be different. Some months I don't make many calls, some months I have used all of my daytime minutes and do go into my roll over minutes.

Depending on the usage, it can be very worthwhile. It would have been nice for my parents if they had it a few months ago when planning my grandmother's funeral and family gatherings. Ten months out of a typical year, they don't go over, but they did that month and one other unusual month. The extra cost of going over wasn't too bad though.
post #192 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Unless you subscribe or a client of their stock reporting services, you have no right to be so indignant.

Actually, anybody with any Apple Stock should be indignant towards this rather inept "ANALyst". Subscriber or not...if stock prices dipped because of her inaccurate predictions should have hunted her down and strung her up.

OTOH..if anybody still listens to her, they deserve to lose because they're morons. Like Col. Klink in Hogans Heroes...whatever she says, do the opposite and you're guaranteed to win. She may understand other sectors but is woefully out of her league where Apple technology and profits are concerned.

On the BS iPhone comments...if you read it...she "polled" consumers who are also out of their element like Donny in The Big Lebowski...
If Apple did a price drop on a low end iPhone....that would cannibalize sales on the upper end. IDIOTIC. Apple has ALWAYS with VERY rare exception...just put the bigger badder devices in the existing price points. If they want to minimize the cannibalization, they neuter the low end device like disabling video capture, lowering the megapixel of the cam or some other feature to guide the masses to the middle or high end models.

Anybody who has ACTUALLY studied Apple for more than 10 minutes know their tendencies...obviously, Puberty only parrots what the masses think. None of it is wrapped in reality very tight.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever." - David St. Hubbins
Reply
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever." - David St. Hubbins
Reply
post #193 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexicon5 View Post

Actually, anybody with any Apple Stock should be indignant towards this rather inept "ANALyst". Subscriber or not...if stock prices dipped because of her inaccurate predictions should have hunted her down and strung her up.

Yawn. I get tired of this kind of indignation. How, exactly would this hurt an average Apple investor? If it is a bad report, it may depress the stock price for a bit, but things will even out as the true situation becomes apparent. Unless you need to sell some stock right after the report to make your mortgage payment or something urgent, then they only way it hurts is if you panic yourself and sell low.

If you are investing money that you need urgently in the short term, then you are a fool.
If you yourself panic and sell low, well, that's your own fault.
If you have this urge to string people up often, by all means seek help!
Progress is a comfortable disease
--e.e.c.
Reply
Progress is a comfortable disease
--e.e.c.
Reply
post #194 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

If you had a plan that provided you with close to the number of minutes you use, there would be no need for roll over. I like the concept of roll over because every month can be different. Some months I don't make many calls, some months I have used all of my daytime minutes and do go into my roll over minutes.

That's a huge "if." The study suggests that people are buying much larger plans than they really need. I very strongly suspect that the reason the providers offer these rollover plans is because they know that few get any benefit from them, and those who do, get only a small occasional benefit. Any feature that looks better in concept than it really is, is a good deal for the providers.

Anyway, the main point I was making here is that flat rate is not necessarily cheaper than pay-as-you-go. It's only a good deal if you use your phone a lot, and use it a lot consistently. From the way these discussions tend to go, it seems to me that many don't get the concept of people who'd really like to have the features of an advanced phone, even if they don't spend hours on it every month.
Please don't be insane.
Reply
Please don't be insane.
Reply
post #195 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Unless you subscribe or a client of their stock reporting services, you have no right to be so indignant. Only their bosses or more important, investors that made buying/selling/holding-off positions re their stock portfolio are so-entitled.

Analysts are monitored continuously. Accuracy is paramount. An analyst's career is predicated on how well he/she performs. Brokers and those that delve in the stock market use analysts' reports as a guidance in their recommendations to their clients or for making purchase decisions respectively. Obviously, if your analyst/broker errs on their recommendation and more importantly causes you to lose monies, you go elsewhere.

Note that analysts are not reviewers. You go to someone else to get those 'lies'.
Analyzing Analyst Recommendations. http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/analysts.htm

Maybe that's why our economy is in the toilet right now. Because all these elite-type-folk are trusting these idiotic analysts...
post #196 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsFan83 View Post

I'm not that old, but poor grammar, IM abbreviations, and typos are seen way too often in the workplace. It's most likely all due to instant messaging and texting. People are talking in acronyms. wtf?

here, here... I'm 34, that may make me either really old or really young to some, but i'm getting a bit tired of people that are too freakin' lazy to complete words (words!!!). Abbreviations are nice when they are recognized by an English Dictionary. Please people, are we that terrible at typing or just too faux-ADD (that's Attention Deficit Disorder) to spell out entire words?

oh, yeah...go Apple! love the products!

Cheaper iPhone - Yeah! Free Upgrade to existing iPhone users? When has the term "upgrade" ever been free other than rental cars? Certainly not from a cellular phone company.
post #197 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

I'm thinking it's the initial price plus the cost of the data plan that scares most people away. If you were to drop the phone down to $99 and the data plan plus 200 SMS messages to $59 total, then they would get FAR more sales. It's really the data plan that kills most people.

I completely agree with this. I can't think of anyone that's said, "oh, i'd totally by an iphone if it were 50 bucks!" who cares about the upfront costs...that may get more first timers to buy one, but they'll soon realize after the first couple bill as to how much of a rip-off it is.

to reply to some other posts about just buying an iPod Touch? well, think about every time you step out of the house and have to look for a WiFi just to check your email on the go. Or, if you need directions and you're someplace where only cell towers are available? Believe me, i went back and forth on this issue and then decided on the iphone. Despite the monthly fees all the functions that work only with a cellular connections out-weight the WiFi only. Plus, I've used AT&T's "free" WiFi service. I live in a small business center in St. Louis where they have a free WiFi network downtown. I never log on because for one you only get a certain number of free minutes and secondly everyone in the city is on it and it's slower than EDGE.

just my 5 cents
post #198 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

It just gives people a choice. Not everyone wants a data plan- some just want aphone/iPod. it's just an added choice- increases penetration.

I'm sorry but i don't at all agree with your logic. If people really wanted just a phone with built-in iPod they would have all bought the Motorola "candy-bar-style" phone 4 years ago that had iTunes built-in. Does the "ROKR-with iTunes" ring a bell?

And only then wouldn't they have just integrated cellular technology into the iPod Nano 3-4 years ago. Actually that doesn't sound too bad for a back-up phone. But i love apps too much and i'm addicted to all the other features available on the iPhone to go back to those stone ages.

I don't think having just a phone that was also an iPod is what people want. Perhaps a few but see the above statement. I think Apple/Motorola's effort tried and failed. Now, that could have been back marketing on Motorola's part for lack of vision but who knows. Maybe it was just too early.
post #199 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It seems quite logical. The iPhone, like the Palm Pre, require a data plan because the subsidized cost of the handset is much higher than other phones. For AT&T or Sprint to not require a $30/month unlimited plan for said devices would mean a higher initial cost. AT&T doesn't sell the phone contract-free but other countries do, and the price is much greater than the $200 subsidation of typical higher-end phones without data plans. There is some evidence that the unsibsudized Palm Pre is $850, yet it's still locked to Sprint and would presumably still require the $70/month minimum plan unless you can trick Sprint by switching SIM cards from a phone with a SERO plan.

I can't find the specific blog but i believe AppleInsider has posted what unlocked (unsubsidized) iphones are going for over in Europe. It's crazy to think people would consider paying upwards of $750 for an iPhone. And, i can't believe that apple would price a product that is roughly 1/2 the functionality of their MacBook at about 2/3's the cost. sounds like just trying to milk it early on for R&D and future funding of the project to me. classic technology marketing.
post #200 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmann View Post

The push and pull demands for distribution is always dependent upon control of any expansion. Apple will have to address expansion at some point if they want to sell to the masses - or a notch below where they sit now. Obviously, anyone who wants a smart phone in a year or two will be able to get one for much less than they are selling for now. At this time, competition is not pushing the absolute need to do so. However, If the product line is ready to expand to other markets (lower price = expanded distribution) the ATT contract (and other exclusives) will not meet the demand potential of that lower priced expansion. This is why exclusives always collapse with expanded product lines in consumer electronics. Brand, price, economy of scale and life cycle of a product or category all are important factors in recognizing the need or opportunity to expand distribution in order to expand sales.

My take is that the ipod example will serve apple well in the near future if not this year. They will expand their phone line to meet price points where more business can be achieved. it is the dogma of consumer electronics in general.. reduced price comes with factors mentioned above and others in the marketing mix. i expect a less expensive phone to hit the streets soon. It will take the wind out of competition is the primary reason for doing it. It protects what "IS" and it takes what as of today "isn't" Apple can be two years ahead of some who haven't even thought about a low priced smart phone yet. Apple has economy of scale in purchasing large quantities of everything. Only the big will be able to compete with for major sales numbers of a phone category like smart phones. This will push Rimm, Palm and others back where they belong in the race and keep apple out front.. To do this they will have to eventually open some (low priced smart phone) if not all products up to more customers. The idea that ATT will be a lone distributor.. when expansion of distribution (best buy for example) is already in place is a reason to stay where they are for now. However, the services of VZ are so strong in some markets that Apple will not be able to ignore that sales opportunity for far into the future. I want them to do it now - as expansion specifically to one more network will be far more productive than destructive at this stage of an open ended product cycle. Where would mercedes be if you could only buy a 500 series 6.3 for $120,000 is a simple example. The phone (car) business is enormous. But, VZ for example, i understand will not be ready with format computability until 2011. that will be just fine too - if not a little late for an ideal expansion to another network of service providers in the USA.

I understand that people are way too used to buying a new phone or iPod or any other techy gadget one a year or once every two years. But why not make a device, like the iPhone that can be updated with new software, save our landfills and just make people pay for update, much like...oh...i don't know...a COMPUTER! Oh, wait, the iPhone already does that!!! i think this is the biggest new discovery of the iPhone to date and I found it!!! why on earth do you need to buy a new cellular phone every year or every two years? this is absolute insanity! i'm assuming you'd shell out $1000 bucks every year for a new computer if you could. wait...i'm on a tech blog, let's make that $3000 every year for a new machine? That's sad that you said yes...

I think that if this current depression (yes...get over it, it's a depression no matter what other word you use) is that companies of all kinds need to figure out how to save money and up-front costs by making products that last...the technology market is going to suffer the same fate as GM and Chrysler for adopting a model like trading in every year. Let's try the Honda approach and offer new products that can potentially last you 10 years instead of 2...

I bought the iPhone 3g after my very first cellular phone, which was purchased in 2003, and i plan on NOT buying another iPhone unless it's given as a free upgrade, they reduce the data plan on future models or i can no longer make use of the firmware updates. Much like a computer. Some i'm hoping for at least 4-5 years form this.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Cheaper iPhone may show as early as Monday