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Apple unveils faster, more affordable MacBook Pros - Page 5

post #161 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccpu View Post

Is Apple using the T or P series CPU's in the Macbook Pro 15 and 17?

For example:

2.66 Ghz - T9550 or P8800

2.8 Ghz - P9700 or T9600

I'm also curious about this, too. I assume that we are talking about the new processors.
post #162 of 239
Anyone know how long it generally takes for new Macs to show up at Amazon?

Thanks.
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post #163 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Come on, do batteries really fail that quickly for most people?


If you regularly use battery power, in my experience the answer is definitely yes.
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post #164 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakesey View Post

So, I do need a special adapter? I cannot just use a SD card as is?

That's why there are so many adapters. If you could put an SD card in an Express slot, you wouldn't need an adapter.

Why would you think that you could put an SD card in an Express slot in the first place?

Each device has it's own socket. The Express slot is so good because it's a fast, direct interface to the bus. It runs at the same speed. So you can have adapters for many other things that plug into it.

That's why I'm not happy Apple is removing it from most of the machines.

Right now, and SD slot is only good for an SD card.
post #165 of 239
So the 2.8 is still only 25W? Can someone confirm? Would it be that Apple just upped the clock rate from the 2.66 or would it be a new processor from Intel? I notice that the original 15" processors were 2.53 and 2.8 ghz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sybaritic View Post

In advance of Bare Feats doing a comparison between the 2.8GHz and 3.06GHz, does anyone have sense of the benefit of the $300 cpu upgrade? The 3.06GHz runs hotter (35W), which in a laptop can be an issue ...
post #166 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

The glossy screens is a mistake

I don't agree. It's easier to position it to reduce glare. The glare is more pronounced, but it doesn't bleed across the entire screen. The devil that you know is better than the one you don't.

Secondly, look at the screen quality overall. It's freaking amazing. I put my "new" MBP (bought Saturday and being returned when my "new-new" ones comes in) against my 2006 matte screen. It's so much better it's not even funny. It's sharper, brighter and has much more vibrant colors. It's nothing short of amazing.

Quote:
but what could you possibly have against two additional hours of battery life? Not only does the built-in battery allow for more charge cycles, it will require recharging less often which means the battery will last even longer.

True. It's one reason I am sucking up the 10% restocking fee to get a "new new" one.

Quote:
Odds are the hard drive will go long before the battery does.....

I don't agree with that. This will be my 4th pro laptop from Apple since 2000. I've had battery problems with every single one of them. I've had HDD problems in maybe one or two.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Come on, do batteries really fail that quickly for most people?

Yes. See above. In my 2006 MBP, I had a battery down to 50% capacity in 8 months. Apple initially told me they "weren't interested" in replacing it. I finally got them to change their minds. I had a PBG4 battery replaced under AppleCare once. I also had 1-2 batteries for my Pismo replaced. Batteries are getting better, and that's a good thing. I can't wait for the new built-in option.
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post #167 of 239
The quality of BD, no Netflix streaming doesn't compare. But most people don't care.

My over all point is that BD use is not a faster growing option than broadcast HD, DVR-HD, downloads, and streaming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Have you seen the streaming service? It's not great. The people who used to buy 8 hour tapes and copy four movies like it.

Still, BD usage is growing faster.
post #168 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I don't agree. It's easier to position it to reduce glare. The glare is more pronounced, but it doesn't bleed across the entire screen. The devil that you know is better than the one you don't.

Secondly, look at the screen quality overall. It's freaking amazing. I put my "new" MBP (bought Saturday and being returned when my "new-new" ones comes in) against my 2006 matte screen. It's so much better it's not even funny. It's sharper, brighter and has much more vibrant colors. It's nothing short of amazing.



True. It's one reason I am sucking up the 10% restocking fee to get a "new new" one.



I don't agree with that. This will be my 4th pro laptop from Apple since 2000. I've had battery problems with every single one of them. I've had HDD problems in maybe one or two.




Yes. See above. In my 2006 MBP, I had a battery down to 50% capacity in 8 months. Apple initially told me they "weren't interested" in replacing it. I finally got them to change their minds. I had a PBG4 battery replaced under AppleCare once. I also had 1-2 batteries for my Pismo replaced. Batteries are getting better, and that's a good thing. I can't wait for the new built-in option.

I agree about the glossy screen. It is much less a problem than people on the internet have made it out to be. We have almost 2 dozen new MBP glossy screens since the beginning of the year and it has proved to be less of a problem than we though it might be. It could be because we have well controlled lighting in our studio and creative offices.

We replace HDD on machines when 1) they are out of warranty and fail, 2) we need to upgrade them to a larger size. HDD are the most failed device on any computer, at least in my experience. The battery always tends to degrade gradually and consistently, so after 4 years we swap them out, without failure, on all our laptops.
post #169 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

SD car reader
Check

Assuming you meant card - I personally think this sucks. I paid $19 for an Express/34 multi-card reader that I use for pulling photos into Aperture (my DSLR uses SD). I also paid $200 for an Express/34 UMTS 3G card. It's not going to fit into the new SD card reader.

I wish Apple had left the Express slot and offered an Express memory card reader as a BTO option to highlight and offer the convenience of semi-built-in SD card support for those who wanted it.

I've never been one of those who complained about Apple's offerings - even when they removed Firewire from the MB, it was at least available on the Pro. Ah well...
post #170 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

With external magsafe battery packs, you don't need to switch out batteries like other laptops, you just plug in the external battery and keep on trucking - no shutdown/restart required.

These new batteries last a lot longer as well, and have greater power capacity, but the side effect is that they're non-replaceable.

Oh well, I've been replacing "non-replaceable" ipod batteries for years. Can't see how people get so hung up about this.

These new batteries are fantastic! Truly more than twice the endurance of what I had before. No longer have to juggle and maintain 2 batteries, each one of which will be toast in a couple of years. So far the battery in the 17" is living up to all expectation. If the lifetime does as well, I think we can say goodbye to detachable laptop batteries in the marketplace. I think this will rank right up there with the iMac's removal of the floppy as one of those Apple moves which evoked endless whining, but a couple of years later seemed intuitively obvious.
post #171 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

Assuming you meant card - I personally think this sucks. I paid $19 for an Express/34 multi-card reader that I use for pulling photos into Aperture (my DSLR uses SD). I also paid $200 for an Express/34 UMTS 3G card. It's not going to fit into the new SD card reader.

I wish Apple had left the Express slot and offered an Express memory card reader as a BTO option to highlight and offer the convenience of semi-built-in SD card support for those who wanted it.

I've never been one of those who complained about Apple's offerings - even when they removed Firewire from the MB, it was at least available on the Pro. Ah well...

It seems most mobile phone services are offering USB 3G dongles for free after rebate and 2 year contract agreement. They're cheaper than the EC/34 3G cards.
post #172 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

It seems most mobile phone services are offering USB 3G dongles for free after rebate and 2 year contract agreement. They're cheaper than the EC/34 3G cards.

Isn't it a little bit risky though? I try to not have long sticks hanging out my USB port if I can avoid it, because I know there's a risk that someone will bump it during use. And the EC/34 is already stowed away for portability. Or is doesn't that work with these cards?
post #173 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

It seems most mobile phone services are offering USB 3G dongles for free after rebate and 2 year contract agreement. They're cheaper than the EC/34 3G cards.

Oh that's definitely true - however, I work for the provider and as an on-call support person I have free 3G service. They've activated the SIM cards that came in our Dell laptops, but since I'd rather beat my head against the wall than take a Windows laptop on the road, I've chosen to purchase my own mobile broadband card to use in my Mac. Since I'm not paying for service, there's no subsidy and I have to pay out-of-pocket for the device.

While I'm whining about it, I'll say it's well worth the cost to be able to travel with my MacBook Pro. I just wish I didn't have to purchase another device because Apple has exchanged a more flexible port for a very dedicated slot.

Otherwise, after having read some of the comments about the existing 17" battery, I admit I'm actually getting excited with the prospect of not having a removable battery - if it can truly last for 5-7 hours (I'm lucky to get two on each of my first generation MBP batteries).
post #174 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post

So the 2.8 is still only 25W? Can someone confirm? Would it be that Apple just upped the clock rate from the 2.66 or would it be a new processor from Intel? I notice that the original 15" processors were 2.53 and 2.8 ghz.

Not 25W, but 28W
Source

Some info about whether 2.8Ghz is T or P:

P: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macbook_pro
T: http://www.everymac.com/systems/appl...acbookpro.html

It's also not clear about CPU in 2.26Ghz 13" Macbook Pro: P8400 or P7550?
Latter may not have intel VT (though I can't find any info about this model)
post #175 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Isn't it a little bit risky though? I try to not have long sticks hanging out my USB port if I can avoid it, because I know there's a risk that someone will bump it during use. And the EC/34 is already stowed away for portability. Or is doesn't that work with these cards?

That's a consideration for sure. About all I can say is walking around an airport these days you'll see more people using USB 3G modems than EC/34 3G modems.

On these message boards, how many MacBook owners have posted complaints about their USB 3G modems? I can't recall any but it's not like I've been looking for them, either.
post #176 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

Here's something that maybe a lot of people haven't considered. Yesterday's laptop announcements will impact Mac Mini sales. I was looking to upgrade my mini to better accommodate editing the HD video that I can now shoot with my new camera. It was an easy decision to do so by way of buying a new mac mini maxed out with the faster processor and 4 gigs of RAM. But that was before Apple offered laptops that are not that much more expensive speced out comparably and with an option to get even better hardware for more cash.

In Canada, for example, if you max out a mini, the price tag before taxes is $1,357, including a wired keyboard and mouse. You end up with a 2.26Ghz Core 2 and 4 gigs of RAM. The MacBook Pro 13", in comparison, now checks in at $1,639 speced more or less the same (same processor, same memory, same hard drive) which, really, is a bargain for adding portability. And on top of that, it's possible to wind up with a significantly faster 13" MacBook Pro for not much more money whereas the mini tops out as described above. Maxed out (not including a $1,200 doubling of RAM), a 13" MacBook Pro retails here for $1,929 and that's for a 2.53Ghz processor and a 500GB hard drive.

So now as it stands, you can spend a really modest amount more to add portability to what a top-end mini would offer or opt for a more powerful alternative, which is simply not possible via a mini.

Seems to me this means, probably, that the mini will have to either be tweaked lower prices, better specs, maybe a combination thereof - or Apple really does intend to pull the plug on the mini line. I can't see it as a viable product for enough consumers to soldier on largely unaffected by changes in the pricing of the laptops on which it's based. There is no excuse for Apple to sell a MacBook for $1,369 with similar specs to a mini that will set you back $1,357. The advantage of the mini is a slightly faster processor (very slightly) and firewire. That pales in comparison to what the MacBook offers as a laptop considering a $12 price difference.

My guess is that Apple will announce changes to the mIni very soon but with little fanfare, mainly because it would have been kind of odd to lump in the mini with all those laptop announcements. If that fails to happen, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what the mini's future will be.

See what the cheapest bare bone's mini COST'S. And then price out a do it your self RAM and HD upgrade.Then you can compare the two.


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post #177 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Isn't it a little bit risky though? I try to not have long sticks hanging out my USB port if I can avoid it, because I know there's a risk that someone will bump it during use. And the EC/34 is already stowed away for portability. Or is doesn't that work with these cards?

it's not much of an issue - i have one permanently hanging off my pb at home. i use a short cable so that if it gets bumped, the dongle itself doesn't get damaged.
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post #178 of 239

Thanks for the links. It looks like we are in the midst of genuine ambiguity.
post #179 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anklosaur View Post

Sorry if this has been said but I've never really understood the need to connect a raid array to a notebook. Do you really carry the array around with you everywhere? I guess I could see it for a musician... or maybe a high end photographer, but still do you really need that much faster disk access out in the world? I'm just curious.


No need to say sorry- most people who don't use particular ports or other capabilities of a computer will never appreciate the need from them.

By removal of the slot Apple have crippled the connectivity of this model to the point where it wouldn't do the job for me or any one else who needs a good selection of ports- that can handle sustained data transfer or the ability to add them.

The only useful port on this machine in this regard is the single fw800 with no hope of improving on that and no redundancy in case of failure. so the machine is not customisable to various set ups you need in the working world.

in no way would this machine replace my tower when i'm not at my desk. so thats why i said for me it's no longer a pro machine. just a macbook with a better video card- so not worth considering.

The card reader is just a gimmick to cover the removal of the slot and appeal more to consumers not workers.
post #180 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme View Post

The card reader is just a gimmick to cover the removal of the slot and appeal more to consumers not workers.

And SD card stics out! http://s1.guide-images.ifixit.com/ig...lAf41BE4.large
post #181 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme View Post

...

By removal of the slot Apple have crippled the connectivity of this model to the point where it wouldn't do the job for me or any one else who needs a good selection of ports- that can handle sustained data transfer or the ability to add them.

The only useful port on this machine in this regard is the single fw800 with no hope of improving on that and no redundancy in case of failure. so the machine is not customisable to various set ups you need in the working world.
...

These machines still have ethernet and that's faster than any of these other ports being talked about.
post #182 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

These machines still have ethernet and that's faster than any of these other ports being talked about.

Connecting via Ethernet not really an option.
post #183 of 239
Enjoy your Dell behemoth!!

The number pad won't happen, nor does it make any sense!! It means having to shift the entire keyboard leftwards, making it very off-centre. For a start this violates Apple's (and my!) OCD design aesthetics, but it's also not very practical. I'm looking at the Dell and the off-centre keyboard and track pad not only looks silly but you have far less palm rest space for the left hand. With Apple’s large gesture-capable trackpad, you would have even less. It would be impossible to comfortably rest your left palm and type without it brushing the track pad! (click for larger).



It looks chunky as all hell to cope with the high cooling requirements, and weighs a good deal heavier. Its “preliminary weight starting at” (whatever that means) is listed as 8.5lbs/3.86kg, which is almost a kilogram heavier than the MacBook Pro (2.99 kg). Its thickness is listed as 1.35"/34.5mm(F), 1.5"/38.5mm(B), which is half an inch thicker than the MacBook Pro (doesn’t sound a lot but if you look at the pics it makes a huge difference). I couldn’t find any high-resolution images on Dell’s site (they would obviously prefer you to read the specs than look at it, though there is a particularly revealing side-view) so I had to Google for some.
\t


Alll in all not a very portable portable. This is a laptop that is designed to never really leave the desk. Which is probably a good thing because I wonder what the battery life is like? While the Dell does have a much better processor and graphics card, at a retail of AU$4,799 it is also $800 more expensive than the 17" MacBook Pro (I'm using Australian retail prices). So would I pay $800 more to get a more powerful chunky Dell behemoth? Personally I wouldn’t.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedrofan View Post

\t
I'm still waiting for the numpad on the 17'' macbook pro
, How can you call pro a computer without number pad?? Real professionals use programs with lots of number entries!!
I'm still waiting for quad proccessor qx9300 17'' macbook pro All other brands already have it.
I'm still waiting for quadro fx graphic cards or gtx graphic cards; buying a 2500€-3500€ notebook with a nvidia 9600 gpu IS A JOKE
I'm still waiting for BlueRay

CONCLUSIONS - I'm not going to wait anymore. I'm, going to buy a dell m6400 covet. THAT IS A REAL PRO NOTEBOOK, NOT THIS.
post #184 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme View Post

No need to say sorry- most people who don't use particular ports or other capabilities of a computer will never appreciate the need from them.

By removal of the slot Apple have crippled the connectivity of this model to the point where it wouldn't do the job for me or any one else who needs a good selection of ports- that can handle sustained data transfer or the ability to add them.

The only useful port on this machine in this regard is the single fw800 with no hope of improving on that and no redundancy in case of failure. so the machine is not customisable to various set ups you need in the working world.

in no way would this machine replace my tower when i'm not at my desk. so thats why i said for me it's no longer a pro machine. just a macbook with a better video card- so not worth considering.

The card reader is just a gimmick to cover the removal of the slot and appeal more to consumers not workers.

Is it really a problem to go up to a 17"? If you're connecting a RAID on the go, then the extra inch of width isn't going to be a big deal compared to carrying a RAID.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme View Post

Connecting via Ethernet not really an option.

If redundancy and storage capacity is the main issue (and not raw speed), Drobo Pro does iSCSI (over ethernet, but maybe that's redundant). The same unit also connects by FW800 and USB, so you can still connect in case a port dies.
post #185 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Is it really a problem to go up to a 17"? If you're connecting a RAID on the go, then the extra inch of width isn't going to be a big deal compared to carrying a RAID.

]If redundancy and storage capacity is the main issue (and not raw speed), Drobo Pro does iSCSI (over ethernet, but maybe that's redundant). The same unit also connects by FW800 and USB, so you can still connect in case a port dies.

well the 17" is the only option- which i think is a sad state of affairs- the 15" has always been a great size- just right. in-fact i'm on one right-now- esata card plugged into raid storage and a blue-ray burner. firewire 400 into a video deck/external monitor- FW800 in-use with another drive that's just been given to me with some footage on. and the ethernet port is being used on a network (for Internet and printers.)

No im not lugging all that stuff about (some but not all)- but i work in various places and need connectivity and scalability. something that Powerbook and Macbook Pro's have always given me. and what i thought was the whole point of that type of line. where a computer is used as part of a scaleable larger set up that's not permanently in an office.
post #186 of 239
for those concerned about the non-swappable battery, there is this option:


http://www.hyperdrive.com/HyperMac-M...Power-s/91.htm

courtesy of someone on the mactalk.com.au forums.
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post #187 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme View Post

No need to say sorry- most people who don't use particular ports or other capabilities of a computer will never appreciate the need from them.

By removal of the slot Apple have crippled the connectivity of this model to the point where it wouldn't do the job for me or any one else who needs a good selection of ports- that can handle sustained data transfer or the ability to add them.

The only useful port on this machine in this regard is the single fw800 with no hope of improving on that and no redundancy in case of failure. so the machine is not customisable to various set ups you need in the working world.

in no way would this machine replace my tower when i'm not at my desk. so thats why i said for me it's no longer a pro machine. just a macbook with a better video card- so not worth considering.

The card reader is just a gimmick to cover the removal of the slot and appeal more to consumers not workers.

"Crippled the connectivity?" That's a bit extreme. I would like to know what you were doing before that you cannot do now. You have FW800, Ethernet and Wireless. You also have USB 2.0 and SD reader. What specifically do you "need" more ports for?
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post #188 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme View Post

well the 17" is the only option- which i think is a sad state of affairs- the 15" has always been a great size- just right. in-fact i'm on one right-now- esata card plugged into raid storage and a blue-ray burner. firewire 400 into a video deck/external monitor- FW800 in-use with another drive that's just been given to me with some footage on. and the ethernet port is being used on a network (for Internet and printers.)

No im not lugging all that stuff about (some but not all)- but i work in various places and need connectivity and scalability. something that Powerbook and Macbook Pro's have always given me. and what i thought was the whole point of that type of line. where a computer is used as part of a scaleable larger set up that's not permanently in an office.

No, that's not what it is supposed to be. It's a machine with more power for prosumers and creative professionals. Concerning what you're doing:

1. Why are you plugged into a hardline ethernet? No wireless?
2. Why can't you get a FW hub for your many attachments?
3. Do you really need them all attached at the same time?
4. Do you understand how much "better" the new line is? Faster processors, better batteries, etc...for significantly less money?
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post #189 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

No, that's not what it is supposed to be. It's a machine with more power for prosumers and creative professionals. Concerning what you're doing:

1. Why are you plugged into a hardline ethernet? No wireless?
2. Why can't you get a FW hub for your many attachments?
3. Do you really need them all attached at the same time?
4. Do you understand how much "better" the new line is? Faster processors, better batteries, etc...for significantly less money?

1. I use both - wireless at home office/ Ethernet at main office & printers- linked to FCP server Xserves

2. i wouldn't touch a FW hub for editing. stuff get dropped- and deck control on my Sony deck wont work trough a hub.

3. If your capturing from a tape source then you need port for the deck- then you need a port for your storage to capture to.- in my case a fairly portable/compact Sonnet raid- 2 pairs of stripped disks then one of those pairs is mirrored to the other- 5th bay /Drive is for Render files only.
So you need at least 2 dedicated controllers that can sustain data-flow- USB2 cant do this. and you certainly don't want to capture to your system drive.

You can chain firewire - but have found that decks like to be first on the chain and decks rarely have 2 ports to then chain a Hard disk from. Plus Sata for media drives is excellent.

Also while editing I need the raid attached with your media on the eSata and in a portable set up I route the Video and Audio back through the firewire video deck to a external monitor- on my Tower set up- i have a dedicated card for this.

Even when I work on a project that all the media comes from Card-based sources- I still need my eSata Raid- which i can't plug in to the 15".

I need to work in offices-home- hotel rooms and on location.What i plug into the computer changes depending on the job in hand/ format I'm working in. or what kit has been hired.

4. So the 15" is distinctly no use to me or 80% of the editors/video produces that i know- despite being a little more powerful- money is not the issue- if the machine can't do the job its needed for- then it doesn't matter if they gave them away for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

"Crippled the connectivity?" That's a bit extreme. I would like to know what you were doing before that you cannot do now. You have FW800, Ethernet and Wireless. You also have USB 2.0 and SD reader. What specifically do you "need" more ports for?

With the 15" i can't do the first thing i need to do in my workflow- log and capture- if a laptop cant do the basic then there is no reason for me to buy it.

I'm not saying or ever said that the machine is Useless to everyone-Good for set ups where you only need to connect a few USB devices- but if you need pro connectivity like me- and I'm no oddball in my edit set-up- then the 15" has now dropped out of the picture when looking for a new computers.- its an Macbook that can run 'Colour'

I need the laptop that has similar connectivity as my Tower set up- that will let me plug my kit in- if feel this is a basic need for me- 17" now is the only option- in a so called Pro laptop line.

I Wouldn't buy an iMac for the same reason- poor connectivity for video production- Mac towers/ MacPro have expansion possibilities. thats why we buy them- thats why we used them when they had an 8th of the processing power that they have now.

You can sell the most Powerful Tractor in town that will run for 500-miles on a 1 tank of petrol- but if you cant attach a tow-bar on the back you wont catch any farmers buying it.

Hope I don't sound aggressive- just answering the questions you have asked
post #190 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme View Post

1. I use both - wireless at home office/ Ethernet at main office & printers- linked to FCP server Xserves

2. i wouldn't touch a FW hub for editing. stuff get dropped- and deck control on my Sony deck wont work trough a hub.

3. If your capturing from a tape source then you need port for the deck- then you need a port for your storage to capture to.- in my case a fairly portable/compact Sonnet raid- 2 pairs of stripped disks then one of those pairs is mirrored to the other- 5th bay /Drive is for Render files only.
So you need at least 2 dedicated controllers that can sustain data-flow- USB2 cant do this. and you certainly don't want to capture to your system drive.

You can chain firewire - but have found that decks like to be first on the chain and decks rarely have 2 ports to then chain a Hard disk from. Plus Sata for media drives is excellent.

Also while editing I need the raid attached with your media on the eSata and in a portable set up I route the Video and Audio back through the firewire video deck to a external monitor- on my Tower set up- i have a dedicated card for this.

Even when I work on a project that all the media comes from Card-based sources- I still need my eSata Raid- which i can't plug in to the 15".

I need to work in offices-home- hotel rooms and on location.What i plug into the computer changes depending on the job in hand/ format I'm working in. or what kit has been hired.

4. So the 15" is distinctly no use to me or 80% of the editors/video produces that i know- despite being a little more powerful- money is not the issue- if the machine can't do the job its needed for- then it doesn't matter if they gave them away for free.



With the 15" i can't do the first thing i need to do in my workflow- log and capture- if a laptop cant do the basic then there is no reason for me to buy it.

I'm not saying or ever said that the machine is Useless to everyone-Good for set ups where you only need to connect a few USB devices- but if you need pro connectivity like me- and I'm no oddball in my edit set-up- then the 15" has now dropped out of the picture when looking for a new computers.- its an Macbook that can run 'Colour'

I need the laptop that has similar connectivity as my Tower set up- that will let me plug my kit in- if feel this is a basic need for me- 17" now is the only option- in a so called Pro laptop line.

I Wouldn't buy an iMac for the same reason- poor connectivity for video production- Mac towers/ MacPro have expansion possibilities. thats why we buy them- thats why we used them when they had an 8th of the processing power that they have now.

You can sell the most Powerful Tractor in town that will run for 500-miles on a 1 tank of petrol- but if you cant attach a tow-bar on the back you wont catch any farmers buying it.

Hope I don't sound aggressive- just answering the questions you have asked


Thanks for the response. First, let me say you're way beyond me in terms of your needs. However, I have two thoughts I'd like to offer.

1) I really think you're going beyond what most portables are designed for. When you're into that kind of editing/dumping/capturing/etc, you really need a desktop. I realize your older notebooks have worked, but it was really just because you had them rigged to do so. I don't believe they were really designed for that kind of heavy work, even if they could do it. It's sort of like taking your Toyota Highlander to an off road race. It may do it, but it's not designed for it.

2) I think people with your needs are not a large market segment. This is obviously why Apple changed the specs. They don't just change features without knowing their market (well...usually). Obviously their research showed people on the whole weren't using some other options.

I will agree that not having FW400 is a pain. I need to buy a FW400>800 cable just to use my 3 year old camcorder now. But, I rarely use FW anyway.
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post #191 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Thanks for the response. First, let me say you're way beyond me in terms of your needs. However, I have two thoughts I'd like to offer.

1) I really think you're going beyond what most portables are designed for. When you're into that kind of editing/dumping/capturing/etc, you really need a desktop. I realize your older notebooks have worked, but it was really just because you had them rigged to do so. I don't believe they were really designed for that kind of heavy work, even if they could do it. It's sort of like taking your Toyota Highlander to an off road race. It may do it, but it's not designed for it.

Color me unconvinced by this argument. Adding a card is hardly rigging it up to exceed the capabilities of the computer. If you want to talk about what people need, you need to keep in mind that while 2.5GHz dual core CPUs may seem old hat, but it is far more power than most people really need. Relative to that power, even FW800 is like sumo wrestler breathing through a straw.

Car analogies don't hold up here, cars don't double in anything every couple years. There was a time when video editing desktops ran in tens and hundreds of megahertz and did the job pretty well, saying that using a notebook running at multiple gigahertz to do the same is going beyond the design intent of the machine doesn't make sense. Especially when the machine series in question was designed to handle Final Cut Studio as an officially supported machine, and Apple has demonstrated notebooks in the past with that software suite.
post #192 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Color me unconvinced by this argument. Adding a card is hardly rigging it up to exceed the capabilities of the computer. If you want to talk about what people need, you need to keep in mind that while 2.5GHz dual core CPUs may seem old hat, but it is far more power than most people really need. Relative to that power, even FW800 is like sumo wrestler breathing through a straw.

Car analogies don't hold up here, cars don't double in anything every couple years. There was a time when video editing desktops ran in tens and hundreds of megahertz and did the job pretty well, saying that using a notebook running at multiple gigahertz to do the same is going beyond the design intent of the machine doesn't make sense. Especially when the machine series in question was designed to handle Final Cut Studio as an officially supported machine, and Apple has demonstrated notebooks in the past with that software suite.


You're missing the point. I can understand that "adding a card" is not supposed to be beyond the machine's capabilities. But he's not just doing that. He's doing stuff like this:

Quote:
Also while editing I need the raid attached with your media on the eSata and in a portable set up I route the Video and Audio back through the firewire video deck to a external monitor- on my Tower set up- i have a dedicated card for this.

and this:

Quote:
If your capturing from a tape source then you need port for the deck- then you need a port for your storage to capture to.- in my case a fairly portable/compact Sonnet raid- 2 pairs of stripped disks then one of those pairs is mirrored to the other- 5th bay /Drive is for Render files only.

A MBP really isn't designed for all of that. You'll have a hard time convincing me otherwise. I can understand the point about only 1 FW800 port, of course. The vast majority of even pro users aren't doing that kind of stuff. They are photo editing, writing music, recording, importing video from one source, etc. Obviously Apple agrees.
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post #193 of 239
I returned my other one for a full refund and now I'm using the new one. I got a better battery, SD slot, 500GB drive and 10% more speed for $200 less. Niiiiice.
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post #194 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

A MBP really isn't designed for all of that. You'll have a hard time convincing me otherwise. I can understand the point about only 1 FW800 port, of course.

That list doesn't really sound like it would really make the machine sweat.

Quote:
The vast majority of even pro users aren't doing that kind of stuff. They are photo editing, writing music, recording, importing video from one source, etc. Obviously Apple agrees.

I only saw one video import source in Graeme's list. Are you sure that each and every one of those uses is more common than doing pro video editing on a notebook? Stacking several different uses against is stacking the deck, in my opinion. I there weren't enough pictures that I could find of Apple's notebook setups at the final NAB event they were at, most were blocked by people crowding around them.

Apple did say that using a card was "single digit", but they didn't say that people were exceeding the machine's "intended use" with them. We weren't given the user base, I wouldn't be surprised to find that 9 in 10 buyers of the 15" were consumers, not pros.
post #195 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Thanks for the response. First, let me say you're way beyond me in terms of your needs. However, I have two thoughts I'd like to offer.

1) I really think you're going beyond what most portables are designed for. When you're into that kind of editing/dumping/capturing/etc, you really need a desktop. I realize your older notebooks have worked, but it was really just because you had them rigged to do so. I don't believe they were really designed for that kind of heavy work, even if they could do it. It's sort of like taking your Toyota Highlander to an off road race. It may do it, but it's not designed for it.

2) I think people with your needs are not a large market segment. This is obviously why Apple changed the specs. They don't just change features without knowing their market (well...usually). Obviously their research showed people on the whole weren't using some other options.

I will agree that not having FW400 is a pain. I need to buy a FW400>800 cable just to use my 3 year old camcorder now. But, I rarely use FW anyway.

Hi SWD

Didn't want to dazzle you with my set up- just that details count.

1, What I use my current 15" for is exactly within what the spec that MBP's were designed for.
I run pro apps in the way they were designed to be used-with the external hardware the were designed for- on desktops and laptops.

My set up is basic for an editor. a 'video in/monitoring' device and a 'storage device'- both devices requiring something other than USB/ethernet for capture

This is how FCP is designed to work (among many other setups) it's basic not complicated or pushing capabilities.

The 'pro' line is (or has been) designed in mind for apples pro apps as well as 3rd party pro apps.- which need conectivity and external storage.

People do more demanding things with their MBP than i do- also in keeping for what they were designed for.

For me a pro computer is not a status symbol or pose mobile. it's a work tool. so not a Toyota Highlander. it's something you take off road every hour of the working day.


2, I guess apple want to increase there pro market with consumers- sadly at detriment to FCP studio users.

Expansion cards are not particular to apple they are on most business/pro laptops.

Apples consideration i guess is price points and trendy design, market share (fair enough)- as someone who makes their living with mac hardware and software- functionality is the main consideration. You don't mind paying for faculty it pays for it's self.

if you can't see the need for an expansion card or particularly spec of graphics card then the Pro line was never aimed at you (thats a general everybody you- not You personally)


The 17" price is not the issue-for me it's the squeeze of connectivity of the product line -and the lack of choice in different screen sizes.
post #196 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Color me unconvinced by this argument. Adding a card is hardly rigging it up to exceed the capabilities of the computer. If you want to talk about what people need, you need to keep in mind that while 2.5GHz dual core CPUs may seem old hat, but it is far more power than most people really need. Relative to that power, even FW800 is like sumo wrestler breathing through a straw.

Car analogies don't hold up here, cars don't double in anything every couple years. There was a time when video editing desktops ran in tens and hundreds of megahertz and did the job pretty well, saying that using a notebook running at multiple gigahertz to do the same is going beyond the design intent of the machine doesn't make sense. Especially when the machine series in question was designed to handle Final Cut Studio as an officially supported machine, and Apple has demonstrated notebooks in the past with that software suite.

Hi
You right I'm not doing anything special here- just using the kit they way it is designed to work.
Glad i'm making sense to someone.

FW800 is certainly over kill for a lot of video capture- but useful when connected to a raid set (small or large)

Adding adaptors / convertors is always a pain, leads are always the first to go- and a non standard lead always takes extra time to get hold of. Plus with adaptors you can lose certain functuality of the kit you plug in & your putting extra demand on the bus. so - in my mind an adaptor is never the ideal solution.

It's always been great that Apple make the Hardware to support their applications- and uses- just hope this is a little blip- or that we will get a real pro line in the future.
post #197 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

You're missing the point. I can understand that "adding a card" is not supposed to be beyond the machine's capabilities. But he's not just doing that. He's doing stuff like this:



and this:



A MBP really isn't designed for all of that. You'll have a hard time convincing me otherwise. I can understand the point about only 1 FW800 port, of course. The vast majority of even pro users aren't doing that kind of stuff. They are photo editing, writing music, recording, importing video from one source, etc. Obviously Apple agrees.

No my set up is very traditional/basic- for an editor / video producer. a 'video in' device and a 'storage device'- both devices requiring something other than USB/ethernet for capture

With the addition of a (broadcast) monitor connected through the video deck- if im editing. (thats not a wacky or odd thing to do- a Standard FCP setup- absolutely nothing special)

Not very much to ask from a MBP -My old 500mhz Powerbook could do the same setup for working with DV- although i use more various and demanding codecs now.

No one in there right mind who works with lot of Raw footage/media professionally would capture or store on it on their system hard drive- laptop or desktop- thats a big no no. so you always need at the very least 2 suitable ports- or the ability to add them.

I'm Not trying to convince you, that you personally need Sata, firewire or an expansion card.
I guess I'm trying to convince you, that i do need something more than USB and 1 lFW port- and my needs are not out of the ordinary for a MBP User- and that for my current work- the new 15" model is now next to useless.

I personally don't feel the need to convince anyone of what i need to do my work- i know what i need already- but happy to answer questions if it's productive in some way.
post #198 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That list doesn't really sound like it would really make the machine sweat.



I only saw one video import source in Graeme's list. Are you sure that each and every one of those uses is more common than doing pro video editing on a notebook? Stacking several different uses against is stacking the deck, in my opinion. I there weren't enough pictures that I could find of Apple's notebook setups at the final NAB event they were at, most were blocked by people crowding around them.

Apple did say that using a card was "single digit", but they didn't say that people were exceeding the machine's "intended use" with them. We weren't given the user base, I wouldn't be surprised to find that 9 in 10 buyers of the 15" were consumers, not pros.

I wouldn't be surprised either, but that doesn't mean that Apple is wrong. Apple wants to sell machines, which it is doing. Given that even using a card at all is "single digit," can you imagine how low the number is for people with needs like Graeme?

As for "intended use," well I think it's clear what Apple intends given the changes they've made to the product. The changes themselves are proof positive of Apple's market.
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post #199 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme View Post

No my set up is very traditional/basic- for an editor / video producer. a 'video in' device and a 'storage device'- both devices requiring something other than USB/ethernet for capture

With the addition of a (broadcast) monitor connected through the video deck- if im editing. (thats not a wacky or odd thing to do- a Standard FCP setup- absolutely nothing special)

Not very much to ask from a MBP -My old 500mhz Powerbook could do the same setup for working with DV- although i use more various and demanding codecs now.

No one in there right mind who works with lot of Raw footage/media professionally would capture or store on it on their system hard drive- laptop or desktop- thats a big no no. so you always need at the very least 2 suitable ports- or the ability to add them.

I'm Not trying to convince you, that you personally need Sata, firewire or an expansion card.
I guess I'm trying to convince you, that i do need something more than USB and 1 lFW port- and my needs are not out of the ordinary for a MBP User- and that for my current work- the new 15" model is now next to useless.

I personally don't feel the need to convince anyone of what i need to do my work- i know what i need already- but happy to answer questions if it's productive in some way.

I appreciate what you're saying (writing). I do. And I'm not arguing that you have crazy needs. What I'm saying is that you really are asking a laptop to perform tasks that a desktop should be doing, especially with all the connectivity you need. The MBP Pro was not designed for this, whether or not it worked and no matter what "other people" do with theirs.

The part in bold above is the point: Your needs are obviously out of the ordinary for a MBP user. Otherwise, Apple would not sell them.
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post #200 of 239
What Graeme says is correct. We use configurations like this on location all the time. Often powered by an inverter fed from the van, or a generator (there are some fairly quiet ones, and they can be located so as to not cause noise pollution on the set).

Often these set-ups are used for editing dailies at a lower IQ, for the editors back "home".

The same thing is true for still location work.

A large number of Mac Book Pros are bought just for these purposes.

Macbook Pros', just like the Powerbooks before them are perfect for this.

But now, an E-SATA has become a must, and there's no excuse that there isn't room in the case for one as they are so small.
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