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Apple unveils faster, more affordable MacBook Pros - Page 3

post #81 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by milles21 View Post

Does anyone really care about Blu-ray, I say this because the majority of blu-ray that I have purchased come with a digital copy which gives you the movie from itunes for free. So is it a big deal for movie watchers.

I can see for storage however there are not a ton of people storing data on blu-ray I am speaking for the people I have seen.

I care. I have a PS3 that I use to watch BD movies (and that my daughter and friends use for, uh, I forgot what else that thing does).
post #82 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

Okay... not sure where the cutoff is between "consumer" and "pro" anymore, but the most expensive camera that Canon makes ($8000) can take both CF and SD/SDHC:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...elTechSpecsAct

And it's been roundly criticized for using that SD card rather than another CF card.
post #83 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Actually, yeah. Considering the recession, BD is doing quite well. BD sales are way up, as are the sales of movies.

BD sales this year are better than BD sales last year. But as far as the entire home video market BD is still an extremely small option.

As far as movie sales one or two movies such as "The Dark Knight" or "Ironman" have outstanding sales, but the industry is in decline.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

How can you cite evidence for something that doesn't exist?

PC sales. I don't see any evidence of BD making any appreciable difference in PC sales.
post #84 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

BD sales this year are better than BD sales last year. But as far as the entire home video market BD is still an extremely small option.

And with any new format, it is to be expected that adoption will take time. Was DVD adoption any faster? What other new formats were adopted faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

PC sales. I don't see any evidence of BD making any appreciable difference in PC sales.

And that "evidence" is based on what? Is there one PC company not offering BD that you're using as a reference point? Computers with BD are certainly offered, and are selling, aren't they? Link to specific numbers?
post #85 of 239
I will try to find this article. The author described Blu-ray as great from movies with a large scope, but when you are watching a romantic comedy you care less about 1080P.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I care. I have a PS3 that I use to watch BD movies (and that my daughter and friends use for, uh, I forgot what else that thing does).
post #86 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

BD sales this year are better than BD sales last year. But as far as the entire home video market BD is still an extremely small option.

As far as movie sales one or two movies such as "The Dark Knight" or "Ironman" have outstanding sales, but the industry is in decline.

It's the growth that matters, not the actual numbers, as we always say when discussing Mac sales vs PC sales.

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/42359/98/

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...-million-discs

Quote:
PC sales. I don't see any evidence of BD making any appreciable difference in PC sales.

Not saying it's making an appreciable increase in overall PC sales. Thats rarely what happens. But models with BD are selling well. No doubt taking away sales from some that don't include it.

As Apple's sales are so small a percentage of overall sales (still), BD could very well take sales away from the PC market, as Apple's other features do.
post #87 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I will try to find this article. The author described Blu-ray as great from movies with a large scope, but when you are watching a romantic comedy you care less about 1080P.

We don't watch romantic comedies.

But even so, people do like to see the detail.
post #88 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

And with any new format, it is to be expected that adoption will take time. Was DVD adoption any faster? What other new formats were adopted faster?

I would say yes. The popularity of DVD exploded. Within a couple of years studios were making more money from DVD than they had ever made from home video entertainment. DVD still accounts for the far majority of home video revenues.


Quote:
And that "evidence" is based on what? Is there one PC company not offering BD that you're using as a reference point? Computers with BD are certainly offered, and are selling, aren't they? Link to specific numbers?

If PC's with BD sold more than PC's without. All PC's would have BD.
post #89 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I would say yes. The popularity of DVD exploded. Within a couple of years studios were making more money from DVD than they had ever made from home video entertainment. DVD still accounts for the far majority of home video revenues.

OK, so link to the numbers showing that DVD sales went up faster than BD sales did by this point in their lifetime.
post #90 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

If PC's with BD sold more than PC's without. All PC's would have BD.

That would be true for any feature that cost more if that were true.

It isn't because it does cost more.
post #91 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's the growth that matters, not the actual numbers, as we always say when discussing Mac sales vs PC sales.

Well its easy to have 1000% growth when you are starting from nothing. The people in the know, know that type of growth doesn't automatically equal long term success.


Quote:
Not saying it's making an appreciable increase in overall PC sales. Thats rarely what happens. But models with BD are selling well. No doubt taking away sales from some that don't include it.

Soon after prices came in line PC's with DVD players would have outsold PC's only with CD players. I don't see this at all for BD.

Quote:
We don't watch romantic comedies.

I'm not just talking about you, but the general consumer.
post #92 of 239
no video card updates at all? a $1700 latop with on board video?? removeing the exprees card slot? no blue ray? nice job apple!

I will just keep my $1600 laptop with 17" mate, screen ati 4850 512, blue ray, 320gb 7200 hd, 3 usb , 1 usb / e-sata , firewire , sd slot , 4gb of ram, HDMI. It also has mini pci-e slots on the in side as well.
post #93 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Well its easy to have 1000% growth when you are starting from nothing.

Then shouldn't DVD have had a similar rate of growth since it was also starting from nothing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Soon after prices came in line PC's with DVD players would have outsold PC's only with CD players. I don't see this at all for BD.

Prices for BD in PCs aren't as cheap as DVD yet, are they?
post #94 of 239
\t
I'm still waiting for the numpad on the 17'' macbook pro
, How can you call pro a computer without number pad?? Real professionals use programs with lots of number entries!!
I'm still waiting for quad proccessor qx9300 17'' macbook pro All other brands already have it.
I'm still waiting for quadro fx graphic cards or gtx graphic cards; buying a 2500€-3500€ notebook with a nvidia 9600 gpu IS A JOKE
I'm still waiting for BlueRay

CONCLUSIONS - I'm not going to wait anymore. I'm, going to buy a dell m6400 covet. THAT IS A REAL PRO NOTEBOOK, NOT THIS.
post #95 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Well its easy to have 1000% growth when you are starting from nothing. The people in the know, know that type of growth doesn't automatically equal long term success.

It doesn't mean that it won't either. But right now, growth is explosive. People are obviously interested.

Quote:
Soon after prices came in line PC's with DVD players would have outsold PC's only with CD players. I don't see this at all for BD.

Maybe you don't, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

Quote:
I'm not just talking about you, but the general consumer.

I know.
post #96 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedrofan View Post

\t
I'm still waiting for the numpad on the 17'' macbook pro
, How can you call pro a computer without number pad?? Real professionals use programs with lots of number entries!!
I'm still waiting for quad proccessor qx9300 17'' macbook pro All other brands already have it.
I'm still waiting for quadro fx graphic cards or gtx graphic cards; buying a 2500-3500 notebook with a nvidia 9600 gpu IS A JOKE
I'm still waiting for BlueRay

CONCLUSIONS - I'm not going to wait anymore. I'm, going to buy a dell m6400 covet. THAT IS A REAL PRO NOTEBOOK, NOT THIS.

Why are you here? Why aren't you on a Dell forum? You can discuss reliability problems with your machines and poor customer service.
post #97 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Why are you here? Why aren't you on a Dell forum? You can discuss reliability problems with your machines and poor customer service.

Beacuase I want a mac with those specs. Not a dell. I want a mac with hardware corresponding to price and status. Apple calls Pro a notebook for moms. C'mon!
post #98 of 239
As I said before only BD advocates are making this comparison, they are slanting it towards BD.

Let's put it this way, DVD started in 1997, BD started in 2006. Around the 2000/2001 time frame is when DVD hit a tipping point where it became common for most people to have one. 2009/2010 would be the same amount of time for BD to have a similar tipping point. I don't see most people having BD players between this year and next.

Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

OK, so link to the numbers showing that DVD sales went up faster than BD sales did by this point in their lifetime.
post #99 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

As I said before only BD advocates are making this comparison, they are slanting it towards BD.

Let's put it this way, DVD started in 1997, BD started in 2006. Around the 2000/2001 time frame is when DVD hit a tipping point where it became common for most people to have one. 2009/2010 would be the same amount of time for BD to have a similar tipping point. I don't see most people having BD players between this year and next.

Obviously we can't see into the future, so we can only compare the first three years of each format.

How is comparing numbers of players sold and movies sold "slanting" the comparison?
post #100 of 239
definetly

MACS for MOMS
DELLS for DADS

Do you understand??
post #101 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedrofan View Post

Beacuase I want a mac with those specs. Not a dell. I want a mac with hardware corresponding to price and status. Apple calls Pro a notebook for moms. C'mon!

Certainly doesn't sound like that.

Considering just how many pros use these Macs, your view isn't universal.
post #102 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

As I said before only BD advocates are making this comparison, they are slanting it towards BD.

You're the one slanting it Teno. BD didn't become viable until Toshiba pulled HD-DVD off the market. You know that very well. Competing standards always pull both down.

It's only during 2008 that BD really got started.

Quote:
Let's put it this way, DVD started in 1997, BD started in 2006. Around the 2000/2001 time frame is when DVD hit a tipping point where it became common for most people to have one. 2009/2010 would be the same amount of time for BD to have a similar tipping point. I don't see most people having BD players between this year and next.

Start with the proper date, and those numbers change radically.
post #103 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedrofan View Post

definetly

MACS for MOMS
DELLS for DADS

Do you understand??

I'm beginning to think you're trolling. If so, please stop.

If not, don't act as though you are.
post #104 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedrofan View Post

\t
I'm still waiting for the numpad on the 17'' macbook pro
, How can you call pro a computer without number pad?? Real professionals use programs with lots of number entries!!
I'm still waiting for quad proccessor qx9300 17'' macbook pro All other brands already have it.
I'm still waiting for quadro fx graphic cards or gtx graphic cards; buying a 2500-3500 notebook with a nvidia 9600 gpu IS A JOKE
I'm still waiting for BlueRay

CONCLUSIONS - I'm not going to wait anymore. I'm, going to buy a dell m6400 covet. THAT IS A REAL PRO NOTEBOOK, NOT THIS.

Personally, I'd get a separate numpad anyway.

How fast are those quad processors? I thought Intel's mobile quads are 2GHz. A desktop quad chip would be a mobile furnace, big & heavy with a short battery life.

I don't think Apple ever advertised having a mobile workstation. A pro media computer and mobile workstation aren't necessarily the same computer.
post #105 of 239
I actually wasn't thinking about HD-DVD, and that's true.

At the same time, time itself is not on BD's side. As time goes on alternative sources outside of optical media continues to mature and become more numerous. Too many things have changed for BD to have the popularity of DVD. Optical media in general don't have the advantage it had years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You're the one slanting it Teno. BD didn't become viable until Toshiba pulled HD-DVD off the market. You know that very well. Competing standards always pull both down.

It's only during 2008 that BD really got started.

Start with the proper date, and those numbers change radically.
post #106 of 239
Hi-Cap Battery
Check
Semi-Affordable 15" model
Check
FW800 back on 13"
Check
Backlit keyboard standard
Check
SD car reader
Check
Lower Prices
Check.

That's pretty much my entire wishlist. Thank you for learning how to listen Apple.
post #107 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I actually wasn't thinking about HD-DVD, and that's true.

At the same time, time itself is not on BD's side. As time goes on alternative sources outside of optical media continues to mature and become more numerous. Too many things have changed for BD to have the popularity of DVD. Optical media in general don't have the advantage it had years ago.

I'm pretty sure that we've got years to go.

It's also been shown that 4,000p can work very well within the present specs of the BD system, which gives it a good growth curve for the future.

Only when broadband service to most customers becomes fast enough to serve for a quality download of movies with enough speed, will that begin to change.

We may not get FIOS where I live in NYC until 2014, when Verizon says most of the city will be served. Other areas will lag by several years. The same thing is true for other "true" high speed services.

Most average people won't stand for an hour to download a high quality movie.
post #108 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I actually wasn't thinking about HD-DVD, and that's true.

At the same time, time itself is not on BD's side. As time goes on alternative sources outside of optical media continues to mature and become more numerous.

Unfortunately, they have a laundry list of issues too. There's not a standard, just a bunch of proprietary formats tied to proprietary devices.
post #109 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Unfortunately, they have a laundry list of issues too. There's not a standard, just a bunch of proprietary formats tied to proprietary devices.

What does that mean?
post #110 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

What does that mean?

I think he was meaning, for example, that the videos bought for one brand of device won't work on another brand of device.
post #111 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme View Post

The ability to plug in a video deck + external storage via fw or esata(via card slot) is still a regular need.

Firewire to esata is readily available, for example:

http://firmtek.stores.yahoo.net/spyderhub.html

Don't know how it's price compares to a slot-based solution.
post #112 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I think he was meaning, for example, that the videos bought for one brand of device won't work on another brand of device.

But they do, of course. The only difference is some of the later features added.

People have to recognise that we live in a different time. Now with everything computerized, nothing stays the same. We get new features with firmware updates, etc.

Stability is out the window. Tv used to mean 640 x 480 broadcast, and 332 by 480 received, and that's it!

Now, everything is a changing mess.
post #113 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.J. Adequate View Post

Firewire to esata is readily available, for example:

http://firmtek.stores.yahoo.net/spyderhub.html

Don't know how it's price compares to a slot-based solution.

But it slows E-SATA down considerably.
post #114 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.J. Adequate View Post

Firewire to esata is readily available, for example:

http://firmtek.stores.yahoo.net/spyderhub.html

Don't know how it's price compares to a slot-based solution.

Isn't that worst of both worlds? Firewire is slower than eSATA and I think there are probably some conversion latencies. eSATA is supposed to be a native direct-to-bus connection as good as the internal SATA connection without having too many transport/signal/format converters.
post #115 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

As I said before only BD advocates are making this comparison, they are slanting it towards BD.

Let's put it this way, DVD started in 1997, BD started in 2006. Around the 2000/2001 time frame is when DVD hit a tipping point where it became common for most people to have one. 2009/2010 would be the same amount of time for BD to have a similar tipping point. I don't see most people having BD players between this year and next.

the main reason there has not been a tipping point is that the BD association has held onto the rights tighter than DVD was.

So budget, which is ultimately what people buy, players have not made it to the market yet. But they have mentioned that the chinese manufacturers are allowed them this year, and they were expecting player prices of 99AUD sometime around Christmas 2009. Once the media comes back in price, then there will be a valid proposition.

Considering that DVD entered into the market during the begining of an extreme boom, and BD has had to weather the current market issues over the last year odd, BD is doing pretty well.
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post #116 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

But they do, of course. The only difference is some of the later features added.

Examples? Can you play a video bought from iTunes video on a device of other brand? How about a video from Sony to any non-Sony brand device? Who is offering commercial downloaded videos that work well on multiple brands of devices?

Quote:
People have to recognise that we live in a different time. Now with everything computerized, nothing stays the same. We get new features with firmware updates, etc.

Stability is out the window. Tv used to mean 640 x 480 broadcast, and 332 by 480 received, and that's it!

Now, everything is a changing mess.

I think there's more potential, but they sure started out a step back from DVD, earlier paid download videos didn't have discrete surround, multiple languages, closed captions or subtitles. I'm not sure all of those are offered consistently yet.
post #117 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Isn't that worst of both worlds? Firewire is slower than eSATA and I think there are probably some conversion latencies. eSATA is supposed to be a native direct-to-bus connection as good as the internal SATA connection without having too many transport/signal/format converters.

Not really ideal, but it works if you have the need for both inputs in your workflow. Just pointing out that Apple hadn't dead-ended anyone.

Really, though, I personally wouldn't do serious video work on a Macbook anyway, as an actual Mac Pro would be faster and let me hook in a good reference monitor.
post #118 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Examples? Can you play a video bought from iTunes video on a device of other brand? How about a video from Sony to any non-Sony brand device? Who is offering commercial downloaded videos that work well on multiple brands of devices?

What?

We're talking about BD there. Nothing else.

Quote:
I think there's more potential, but they sure started out a step back from DVD, earlier paid download videos didn't have discrete surround, multiple languages, closed captions or subtitles. I'm not sure all of those are offered consistently yet.

I'm not even interested indownloads in a serious way yet. I tried some from itunes, and they were fine, but nothing thrilling.

I'm far happier with BD.
post #119 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

What?

We're talking about BD there. Nothing else.

You didn't notice? That explains why you didn't understand Ben's post.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post
I actually wasn't thinking about HD-DVD, and that's true.

At the same time, time itself is not on BD's side. As time goes on alternative sources outside of optical media continues to mature and become more numerous.

Unfortunately, they have a laundry list of issues too. There's not a standard, just a bunch of proprietary formats tied to proprietary devices.

BenRoethig was talking about the alternative sources outside of optical media, here, I'm pretty sure it mostly means paid downloads. I'd be surprised if he was talking about BD, because that's just one format, not plural, and it's optical, meaning it's not an alternative to optical.
post #120 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

You didn't notice? That explains why you didn't understand Ben's post.



BenRoethig was talking about the alternative sources outside of optical media, here, I'm pretty sure it mostly means paid downloads. I'd be surprised if he was talking about BD, because that's just one format, not plural, and it's optical, meaning it's not an alternative to optical.

You're right. somehow I missed the linking of two sentences while I linked the others together.
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