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Apple introduces 13-inch MacBook Pro, cheaper MacBook Airs - Page 2

post #41 of 225
I would like to say to all those glossy haters. Have you played a movie like star trek on a glossy screen, as opposed to a matte screen?

For the great majority of everybody who uses their mac for games or movie playback, glossy is the number one choice.

Every time you complain you make yourselves look like one of those " floppy discs will never die crowd".
Luddite 101.

Glossy simply looks fantastic. And now with the new 9400 chip in the 13 in MBP, glossy will look fantastic while playing COD4.

I watch HULU all day long on my black MB 13IN, and from 15 feet away the glossy picture looks so nice. Apple is approaching untouchable in many area's that it is doing business in. I only wish more apple products were made or assembled in the USA.

Peace







Ps If you also love glossy respond to my post, with your own "how glossy saved my dog" story and you may win a free prize.
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post #42 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

You really think that not having an expresscard slot singlehandedly makes a machine not "pro"?

People have been whining for months that they wanted a 15" MacBook.

They've been given a 15" MacBook, and as a bonus it also comes with FW800, 7 hours of battery, a better display and an SD card slot.

That's why I said that people got the 15" MacBook they wanted. It wasn't about the lack of EC or discrete graphics.
post #43 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

Pro = expansion.

No it doesn’t. It means professional. A $300 Dell desktop is expandable but that doesn’t mean it’s a Pro machine. Notebooks by design are meant to be portable over expandability.
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post #44 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Haha. Firewire is back - just as I asked for and predicted.
Finally I can buy one.

*high-fives Teck*

Wow. Firewire, and some serious price cuts to boot. Who slipped Steve the reasonable juice???

Plus, the iPhone 3GS now has almost every feature I ever asked for... MMS, voice-dialing, wider use of the landscape keyboard, video-recording, better camera resolution, etc etc... everything 'cept a good US carrier, a'course.

Bravo, Apple. Bravo, Steve.
.
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post #45 of 225
[QUOTE=solipsism;1428140][QUOTE=infinitespecter;1428130]Pro = expansion.
Quote:
No it doesnt. It means professional. A $300 Dell desktop is expandable but that doesnt mean its a Pro machine. Notebooks by design are meant to be portable over expandability.

My friend the only true pro is now the 17 in. And that is the only size a true pro user would ever need.

9
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post #46 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

People have been whining for months that they wanted a 15" MacBook.

They've been given a 15" MacBook, and as a bonus it also comes with FW800, 7 hours of battery, a better display and an SD card slot.

That's why I said that people got the 15" MacBook they wanted. It wasn't about the lack of EC or discrete graphics.

You didn't answer my question - what makes it not "pro"?
post #47 of 225
[QUOTE=solipsism;1428140][QUOTE=infinitespecter;1428130]Pro = expansion.
Quote:
No it doesnt. It means professional. A $300 Dell desktop is expandable but that doesnt mean its a Pro machine. Notebooks by design are meant to be portable over expandability.

When a 1" thick 10" screen Netbook that weighs less than a Macbook Air has an expresscard slot and an SD card slot, you lose any argument about portability over expandability. Notebooks FAR more portable than the 15" Macbook have FAR more expansion. It's a choice that Apple continues to make, ostensibly, to force people to upgrade more often or to upgrade to the higher model. It's ridiculous to sell a $2300 "Pro" Machine in 2009 that has less expansion capabilities than a $250 Netbook.
post #48 of 225
[QUOTE=brucep;1428159][QUOTE=solipsism;1428140]
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

Pro = expansion.My friend the only true pro is now the 17 in. And that is the only size a true pro user would ever need.

9

These arguments just get more and more absurd. The only way what you say makes any sense is if the work being done doesn't require the user to be mobile. Pro = a hell of a lot more than sitting in one place editing video with Final Cut Pro.
post #49 of 225
OMG, I feel so sorry for all the USB-fanboys desperately trying to sell their unibody Macbook on eBay, hoping to find a fool still willing to pay a decent price for their brick.
Who is laughing now?

FW400 is dead. Long live FW800!
post #50 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

My friend the only true pro is now the 17 in. And that is the only size a true pro user would ever need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

When a 1" thick 10" screen Netbook that weighs less than a Macbook Air has an expresscard slot and an SD card slot, you lose any argument about portability over expandability. Notebooks FAR more portable than the 15" Macbook have FAR more expansion. It's a choice that Apple continues to make, ostensibly, to force people to upgrade more often or to upgrade to the higher model. It's ridiculous to sell a $2300 "Pro" Machine in 2009 that has less expansion capabilities than a $250 Netbook.

You people have a narrow idea of what a professional machine is. Why would a professional only use a 17” machine? What would a professional needing a 15” high-quality display with longevity need with a crappy 10” TN display on a crappy Atom powered notebook, simply because it has some port for a card? I can see it for a tech guy on the move who an plug in to outlets often, but for anything requiring actual remote usage and a nice quality display with good performance it won’t do the job. Pro means professional. If you can supply proof that Pro in any way refers to expandability I’m willing to hear you out.
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post #51 of 225
Basically this is a NON-event for the mac books /pros.

They removed some features from the 15" (and made it cheaper)

And renamed the 13" to "pro"

Still more or less same processor speeds,
Still same screen resolutions
Still same dvd drives
Still same enclosures
Still same graphic cards and speeds (WTF?)

As a comparison Sony just released a 13" SR with an ATI 4570, which almost equals a 9600 GT.

So much for 9 months of evolution.
post #52 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

These arguments just get more and more absurd. The only way what you say makes any sense is if the work being done doesn't require the user to be mobile. Pro = a hell of a lot more than sitting in one place editing video with Final Cut Pro.

I agree it’s absurd which is why i’m scratching your head as to why you think the Pro in MacBook Pro is Apple secretly referring to Expandability and why you think that the only professional occupation is FCP editing.


PS: Be a Pro, fix your posts.
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post #53 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by xyz001 View Post

Basically this is a NON-event for the mac books /pros.

They removed some features from the 15" (and made it cheaper)

And renamed the 13" to "pro"

Still more or less same processor speeds,
Still same screen resolutions
Still same dvd drives
Still same enclosures
Still same graphic cards and speeds (WTF?)

As a comparison Sony just released a 13" SR with an ATI 4570, which almost equals a 9600 GT.

So much for 9 months of evolution.

Faster speeds, better displays, more RAM, more options, less money. Sounds like a win for the consumer to me.
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post #54 of 225
I just checked all the tech stats on the new line of macbook pros and am seriously confused. There is not a single model, from the 13" to the 17", that has more than one firewire port. This means the basic requirements of video editing do not exist in apples new notebooks. The creators of final cut pro have cut off the notebooks ability to log, capture and edit. How is this possible? I am using a five year old powerbook g4 that is more capable than the brand new, top of the line 17" macbook pro.
post #55 of 225
Anyone notice the 13" Pro doesn't have a dedicated line-in?

(To make room for FireWire I suppose)
post #56 of 225
First, FW800 ON THE 13"! Excellent reversal of their idiotic removal of FW from the MB.

But what's up removing Expresscard/34 on the 15" and not adding it to the 13". If 1% are using it, then how is everyone else using 3G broadband? A big USB dongle sticking out of the side of their computer?? Talk about cumbersome.

Additionally, although FW800 mitigates the slow-as-molasses-external-drive-transfer problem, There won't be a way to upgrade to eSATA or USB3/FW3200 which will be out pretty soon.

(additionally, there are a lot of different niche uses for expresscard in different professional fields like scientific instrumentation hookup, pro audio/video hookups, expresscard->PCIe adapters that allow you to put desktop-size PCIe cards in a mobile shell and use them in the field, etc. Granted these will represent a small fraction of the user base, and they can always buy the 17")
post #57 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by xyz001 View Post

Basically this is a NON-event for the mac books /pros.

They removed some features from the 15" (and made it cheaper)

And renamed the 13" to "pro"

Still more or less same processor speeds,
Still same screen resolutions
Still same dvd drives
Still same enclosures
Still same graphic cards and speeds (WTF?)

As a comparison Sony just released a 13" SR with an ATI 4570, which almost equals a 9600 GT.

So much for 9 months of evolution.

That's a pretty skewed perspective.

What did they remove on the 15 besides the expresscard slot?

And the 13 gained firewire and SD slot, now up to 8 gigs max ram, longer battery life, and cheaper. And faster is faster, not "more or less same".

Way to not mention any of the improvements and only list things that are the same (some of which were wrong).
post #58 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Faster speeds, better displays, more RAM, more options, less money. Sounds like a win for the consumer to me.

Same speeds,
same display resolutions,
same RAM (almost noone needs 8 GB),
only worse options, not better,
less money for a worse product.

It all seems like PC marketing to me. It is almost like you can feel Jobs has been away. Gone is the good old Apple "no-compromises and clear Line-ups"

Hello to a "dell" style webpage

(try for example to go to the store and customize a mac book pro 13": They are now hiding the graphics card!! WTF happened to clarity?
post #59 of 225
anybody know why Apple can't use the integrated usb/esata all-in-one ports i'm seeing on PC's. I've seen on HP's and dell's, one port that accommodates usb or esata.
post #60 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlr33 View Post

I just checked all the tech stats on the new line of macbook pros and am seriously confused. There is not a single model, from the 13" to the 17", that has more than one firewire port. This means the basic requirements of video editing do not exist in apples new notebooks. The creators of final cut pro have cut off the notebooks ability to log, capture and edit. How is this possible? I am using a five year old powerbook g4 that is more capable than the brand new, top of the line 17" macbook pro.

On machines with multiple ports, they are still on the same bus so the only advantage of those additional ports is convenience, not performance. Adding an extra port would give no performance increase over daisy chaining or using a FW hub.

And is it really impossible to do video editing with a FW hub or daisy chained?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xyz001 View Post

Same speeds,
same RAM (almost noone needs 8 GB),

Wrong and wrong. How is 2.26 ghz the same as 2ghz? And just because YOU don't need 8 gig doesn't mean max ram isn't improved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xyz001 View Post

only worse options, not better,

That's flat out false. Sure, you wanted more improvements. But that's no reason to lie about these new machines to try and embellish your point of view.
post #61 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by zanshin View Post

In a capitalism-based society, nothing is over-priced if an acceptable percentage of the market will pay that price.

This could be too savvy - and too dense - for some of the folks here who can never seem to understand free-market capitalism 101.
post #62 of 225
Quote:
On machines with multiple ports, they are still on the same bus so the only advantage of those additional ports is convenience, not performance. Adding an extra port would give no performance increase over daisy chaining or using a FW hub.

And is it really impossible to do video editing with a FW hub or daisy chained?

It isn't impossible but it costs me more money, and takes more time which is something I would prefer not to do after spending $2000 +.
post #63 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

That's a pretty skewed perspective.

What did they remove on the 15 besides the expresscard slot?

They removed the 9600 GT card to make it cheaper. Instead of making it more awsome and keeping the price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

And the 13 gained firewire and SD slot, now up to 8 gigs max ram, longer battery life, and cheaper. And faster is faster, not "more or less same".

Well a bump from 2.4 to 2.8 GHz in 9 months is hardly an event. Extra battery, and extra RAM limit is ok, but also hardly worth to mention. The fact is that today you can have DOUBLE or TRIPPLE as fast a machine for 3D applications and games by replacing the graphics card. Therefore it is the most important spec, even more important than the processor. Because it actually makes a difference.
post #64 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by xyz001 View Post

Same speeds,
same display resolutions,
same RAM (almost noone needs 8 GB),
only worse options, not better,
less money for a worse product.

It all seems like PC marketing to me. It is almost like you can feel Jobs has been away. Gone is the good old Apple "no-compromises and clear Line-ups"

Hello to a "dell" style webpage

(try for example to go to the store and customize a mac book pro 13": They are now hiding the graphics card!! WTF happened to clarity?

The MB now has a higher quality display (didnt say higher resolution).
The MB now has a 2.26 or 2.53Ghz CPU over the previous 2.0 or 2.4Ghz options.
The MB now has 4GB as default in upper tier 13 model.
The MB now has a much longer battery life which allows it to have a FW800 port (though at the risk of losing the user-accessible battery and HDD).
The MB prices are now $100 less for their respective tiers.

image: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2480/...80cff5c3_o.png
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post #65 of 225
There is only one audio port on the 13" now. FYI.
post #66 of 225
Why does Apple always insist on taking important things away every time they add a feature that every other notebook at half the price already has?

These new models have some great features that I and and a lot of others have been crying for. If all they did was add these features in, things would be great. That they dropped the price is even better. But, lo and behold, it's always a bait and switch with Apple. They have to take things away.

Dropping a swappable battery and the expresscard slot on the 15" Macbook Pro turned what easily could have been a huge win into an epic fail.
post #67 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by xyz001 View Post

They removed the 9600 GT card to make it cheaper. Instead of making it more awsome and keeping the price.

Read the specs again. Only the cheapest configuration loses that card, the other configs all still have it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xyz001 View Post

Well a bump from 2.4 to 2.8 GHz in 9 months is hardly an event. Extra battery, and extra RAM limit is ok, but also hardly worth to mention. The fact is that today you can have DOUBLE or TRIPPLE as fast a machine for 3D applications and games by replacing the graphics card. Therefore it is the most important spec, even more important than the processor. Because it actually makes a difference.

Well, at least now you're being honest and admitting the improvements exist. It just sounds like all you care about is the video card. See above, the 9600 is still there.
post #68 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Why does Apple always insist on taking important things away every time they add a feature that every other notebook at half the price already has?

These new models have some great features that I and and a lot of others have been crying for. If all they did was add these features in, things would be great. That they dropped the price is even better. But, lo and behold, it's always a bait and switch with Apple. They have to take things away.

Dropping a swappable battery and the expresscard slot on the 15" Macbook Pro turned what easily could have been a huge win into an epic fail.

It's an epic fail for anyone who needed to swap the battery: very few people relatively speaking.

While the ExpressCard slot had obvious uses for pro hardware - the motivation may have been looking at the market and seeing that most 3G antennae are USB sticks anyway -- which was another minor customer base consideration.
post #69 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlr33 View Post

It isn't impossible but it costs me more money, and takes more time which is something I would prefer not to do after spending $2000 +.

How does daisy chaining cost you more money or more time?
post #70 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The MB now has a higher quality display (didnt say higher resolution).
The MB now has a 2.26 or 2.53Ghz CPU over the previous 2.0 or 2.4Ghz options.
The MB now has 4GB as default in upper tier 13 model.
The MB now has a much longer battery life which allows it to have a FW800 port.
The MB prices are now $100 less for their respective tiers.

AMEN! This was the 13" MB I wanted the first time around. I placed my order for a 13" MBP as soon as the Apple Online Store opened. I have never done this before, ever. I've always bought refurb Macs or previous models, this is the first time I'm buying a brand spanking new machine and paying full pop (ok, close to full pop, I'm paying education price).

The big thing for me was the lack of Firewire, now that the MBP 13" has it, I can use my Apogee Duet audio interface (I'm a musician).

The improved screen is also nice, considering that I was never happy with my BlackBook's screen but loved the MacBook Air's.
post #71 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

..... huge win into an epic fail.

And, all those who are exulting in this forum about these changes must be uninformed morons?

It is pretty arrogant on your part to think that your personal preferences should apply to all. (According to Phil Schiller, 99% of Apple users don't use the expresscard slot!).
post #72 of 225
How about a frackin Blu-Ray player...
post #73 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The MB now has a higher quality display (didn’t say higher resolution).
The MB now has a 2.26 or 2.53Ghz CPU over the previous 2.0 or 2.4Ghz options.
The MB now has 4GB as default in upper tier 13” model.
The MB now has a much longer battery life which allows it to have a FW800 port.
The MB prices are now $100 less for their respective tiers.

image: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2480/...80cff5c3_o.png

Yeah ok. I guess we will all feel the huge oopmh from the brand new 2.53 GHZ compared to last years 2.4 Ghz.

A new graphics card like a 4570 or similar would have doubled the speed. Thats a fact.

The 13" macbook is now twice as slow as the comparable sony 13" SR. Before it was considerably faster.

Therefore this upgrade is at best hardly noticable, at worst making the macbook subpar.
post #74 of 225
Those are some nice, solid updates. And the SSD (and faster processor) on the Air is only an extra $300? How times have changed.
post #75 of 225
post #76 of 225
Do you think the shooter has an i phone?
post #77 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by probably View Post

There is only one audio port on the 13" now. FYI.

I dont think anyone guessed that but it was expected. The headphone jack on my late 2008 unibody MB also worked flawlessly with my Apple in-earphones. Not just the speaker and mic, but the cord controls, too. In retrospect, I guess it was a matter of time.

Now we get here about how peoples current mic and phone set wont work anymore. I doubt a simple adapter will fix that.
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post #78 of 225
So, does this mean the MacBook line is about to expand with cheaper systems now that the 13" went pro?
post #79 of 225
I bought the first intel Macbook Pro, no Firewire 800 - added in the revision after.
I bought the first unibody Macbook, no Firewire - added in the revision after.
I feel like a real asshole right now, apple stop slapping me in the face!
And all those people I argued with where I said the Macbook should have it, and you told me I was crazy, dumb, a a whiner, too cheap, asking for the impossible, just trying to stir shit up, an Apple hater, holding onto old dead technology, etc. - Please line up to give me your apologies.

Now I've got to sell my unibody Macbook and get the new one. *sigh*
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post #80 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHKOsta View Post

It's funny - the distinction that I really drew with the Pro line was that there were TWO graphics cards. Even if you don't run graphics-intensive software, having the discrete card would have tremendous implications for OpenCL, right? Or am I missing something?

I totally agree. The 'pro' line up was originally aimed at the pro graphic designers and gamers. a macbook pro meant that you had a discrete graphics card, everything else (metal casing, luminated keyboard, gestures) were just extras. screen size was also diff but the graphics card was the overall distinguishing factor. i feel that adding 'pro' to the $1199 model is an advertising ploy.

i'm only complaining about the use of the 'pro' name. As far as the lower prices and improved system specs, i'm really happy about that.

i'm even more psyched about the $29 leopard to snow leopard upgrade, this will almost guarantee that all leopard users will buy the upgrade and very very very few will get pirated copies.
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