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Apple introduces 13-inch MacBook Pro, cheaper MacBook Airs - Page 3

post #81 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by xyz001 View Post

The 13" macbook is now twice as slow as the comparable sony 13" SR. Before it was considerably faster.

Therefore this upgrade is at best hardly noticable, at worst making the macbook subpar.

So more stuff at a lower price equals a slower machine? That would mean that an Altair is a very fast machine indeed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

So, does this mean the MacBook line is about to expand with cheaper systems now that the 13" went pro?

Id think that a 15 MB made of plastic would work out well now that 13 aluminium has gone Pro, as rumoured and predicted, but now I think that they wont go that route seeing as how they gave the entry level 15 MBP a 9400M.
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post #82 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by xyz001 View Post

A new graphics card like a 4570 or similar would have doubled the speed. Thats a fact.

We don't all have a gaming fetish like you. For what I do, I'll gladly take the other improvements over faster video card.
post #83 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlr33 View Post

I just checked all the tech stats on the new line of macbook pros and am seriously confused. There is not a single model, from the 13" to the 17", that has more than one firewire port. This means the basic requirements of video editing do not exist in apples new notebooks. The creators of final cut pro have cut off the notebooks ability to log, capture and edit. How is this possible? I am using a five year old powerbook g4 that is more capable than the brand new, top of the line 17" macbook pro.

lol You've never heard of daisy chaining? You are aware old mac notebooks even while having 2 ports only had 1 bus right? That means you were effectively daisy chaining right on the machine! You can indeed plug the drive into the computer and the camera/deck into the extra port on the drive - this is something I've done too many times to count. The only computers apple makes with multiple buses have been the Mac Pros.
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post #84 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

We don't all have a gaming fetish like you. For what I do, I'll gladly take the other improvements over faster video card.

I’m half interested in the 15” MBP now that it has the 9400M, but seeing as how the display in the 13” has been greatly improved I may just stick with that size for my next purchase. I do nothing that requires a larger screen so i see no need to pay for it or have my battery be used quicker because of it.
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post #85 of 225
Crazy question, but how loud is the multi-touch click? I have an old G4 iBook that I am replacing with one of these new MBP's and the button click keeps my wife up on night it is so loud! I have tried the new regular MB, and that click is VERY quite, is the MBP like this? Thanks!
post #86 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

And, all those who are exulting in this forum about these changes must be uninformed morons?

That's more kind and diplomatic than how I would put it.

The same people defended the lack of firewire on the 13" aluminum laptops. The same ones said over and over again that I don't need an SD card slot. Those same people are STILL defending glossy screens.
post #87 of 225
All in all a really nice update.

Kudos to Apple this time round.
post #88 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So more stuff at a lower price equals a slower machine? That would mean that an Altair is a very fast machine indeed.

Im just saying that the old Macbook 13" with the 9400M was one of the most powerful 13" laptops out there. It outperformed the Sony SR, the Sony Z and the Lenovo models.

Now the Sony SR is twice as fast as the macbook. (because of the 4570)

It is just a fact. The Macbook 13" went from being Top-of-the-line to being half as fast.

And at the same time they added the "pro" name.


This is not for gaming only, but for "pro" 3D applications, and i guess all the Open CL stuff.
post #89 of 225
Did a single published rumor-monger have a clue about this release? Apple secrecy is NOT dead!

Meanwhile, this is the machine I would've bought a year ago. But now that I've made the decision that mobile computers will meet all my needs, and need a new primary, I'll probably go 15" since it's got all the updates here.

On the other hand, the little guy will support big high-res monitors and is a) cheaper and b) less of a handful to lug. Decisions, decisions.

And as long as we're making claims about what we posted, I'll note that Apple listened to me (as if ) and realized that more than "size matters" when it comes to making something "pro." Leaving, sez me, one more small gap in Apple's "full-size notebook" lines, i.e., a less expensive 15" model. But won't hold my breath, as there would be some cannabalism of bigger sales, and we all know how the big A feels about that.....

(There is also of course that waiting to be filled by something amazing chasm betwixt the iPhone/Touch and the 13"ers..... ....but plenty of great announcements today, methinks.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiles77 View Post

Bravo, as well, Apple, on adding the backlit keyboard to the low-end model.
Wow!!!

Check!

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Haha. Firewire is back - just as I asked for and predicted.
Finally I can buy one.

Check! (and as I'd hoped)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHKOsta View Post

It's funny - the distinction that I really drew with the Pro line was that there were TWO graphics cards. Even if you don't run graphics-intensive software, having the discrete card would have tremendous implications for OpenCL, right? Or am I missing something?

Is he missing something?? Inquiring minds want to know

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpellino View Post

Just like I said.
And some of you (you know who you are) had a dozen reasons FW was on its way out never to return.
Would you like that crow steamed, country-fried or fricasseed?

I think is a case of serious blowback being listened to (or battery case space savings or whatever). But while many here have said it's FW400 that's dead, do note that your FW400 devices will work just fine.
Quote:
MS is dead!

Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

I have been saying this for at least 3 years...it's my trademark, so don't worry...and yes, I believe they are dying a slow death.

Whether you love or hate MS, no way. First, MS is in many markets where Apple's presence is zero to negligible. For one, Apple is at least a decade away from being a force in enterprise IT, and that's if they thought they could be and began a major push. And Enterprise is a huge market.

Second, even if SL's a home run (and it appears to be at least a triple), Win 7 only has to be a double for Windows to keep 90% of its current market share, and according to Mac pundits I respect, while it's still Windows, it is. Especially in its historically most vulnerable areas of security and stability.

And in this economy, and with the paradigm shift to netbooks, MS may lose more installs to Android and Linux on these small machines, than to Apple, which already rules the premium PC roost.

Third, MS is actually showing signs of starting to "get it" in certain areas. I gave Bing a try last week, and after three searches, not only added it to Firefox, but made it my default. (Of course, they're still MS, and have totally blown it with the starter version of Win 7 - which won't even let you customize your desktop, opting instead to force you to carry around an advertisement for the phone carrier who's subsidizing your new netbook.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zanshin View Post

Oh, blow it out your ar'se...

I'm one of those pedants who hates bad grammar and punctuation in "professional journalism," but what bothered me more about the article is that they obviously got the copy from Apple and didn't edit out the slavish ad-style copy, the breathless proclamation that the Air weighs "only three pounds," etc.

Quoting marketing materials is not journalism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

maybe they helped in pushing Apple to make the decision to cut back on margins (or maybe they sorted out how to make the unibodies cheaper now they have a lot of experience).

Prices on tech products can be lowered via "production experience" - i.e., it cost a few mega bucks to tool up the unibody production lines, and once that cost's been recovered (amortized), there's room to cut without affecting margins.

As another poster noted, many here don't grasp the mechanics of why and how businesses make actual profits. But then, Al (the world will end in 10 years, said more than 10 years ago, then said again) Gore is on Apple's board, and he doesn't get it either (LoL).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

It wasn't about the lack of EC or discrete graphics.

I'm a 20+ year heavy PC user and I have yet to see, let alone need an EC peripheral. I guess a doo-dad to make your notebook run on cell networks would be one, but otherwise I don't have any idea who really needs this port.

Quote:
Originally Posted by probably View Post

Anyone notice the 13" Pro doesn't have a dedicated line-in?

(To make room for FireWire I suppose)

That IS kind of sucky, no? Any workarounds?

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post #90 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by probably View Post

Anyone notice the 13" Pro doesn't have a dedicated line-in?

(To make room for FireWire I suppose)

In the current unibody notebooks the headphone and mic are one so you can use your Apple headphones with them. Even the controls work on the headphones. But they left the mic as separate, too.

I guess this gives room for the FW800 port, but with a screwed-on bottom they had more room to maneuver. I guess well have to wait and see the iFixit breakdown.
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post #91 of 225
[QUOTE=infinitespecter;1428184][QUOTE=brucep;1428159]
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


These arguments just get more and more absurd. The only way what you say makes any sense is if the work being done doesn't require the user to be mobile. Pro = a hell of a lot more than sitting in one place editing video with Final Cut Pro.

No, it is not anything more than just that. A professional CANNOT cut any corners in his work. He or she must bring a flawless product to the market in color's that look professional on 5 or 6 differant kinds of media. And all the colors have to look exactly the same on all the possible media's.

The lines are blurring between the very high end photoshop/finalcut pro kind of user, to people like me who burn some movie's, watch some hulu and plays cod4.

If you are a PRO and you can get away with using a $300 net-book, fine.

A pro uses their own CTR monitor for true color. And they would never touch a glossy anything ever.

Understand yet? All you high end users lucked out all these years using mac's made for the Masses'. The PRO market is less than one percent. However loud you scream, the day's of apple catering to you is over.
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post #92 of 225
Nice update, might have to go for a 13" Pro for school this fall.

My only big question is the built in battery, I'm concerned about having to pay an additional service fee plus the cost of a battery to get it replaced, unless you want to 'throw out' you laptop every few years when the battery starts to loose it's charge capacity. Incidentally it also means more profits for Apple and the other manufacturers who are going to this battery, since it prevents 3rd parties from making replacement batteries to be installed by the user or providing backup batteries for photographers and others who work in remote locations where power to recharge might not be available.
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post #93 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

That's more kind and diplomatic than how I would put it.

The same people defended the lack of firewire on the 13" aluminum laptops. The same ones said over and over again that I don't need an SD card slot. Those same people are STILL defending glossy screens.

Movie's look fantastic on a glossy screen. Everything looks better with a glossy screen .And i love the return of the fire wire.
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post #94 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Im half interested in the 15 MBP now that it has the 9400M, but seeing as how the display in the 13 has been greatly improved I may just stick with that size for my next purchase. I do nothing that requires that so i see no need to pay for it or have my battery be used quicker because of it.

Ditto. The 13" looks very good to me.
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post #95 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

Nice update, might have to go for a 13" Pro for school this fall.

My only big question is the built in battery, I'm concerned about having to pay an additional service fee plus the cost of a battery to get it replaced, unless you want to 'throw out' you laptop every few years when the battery starts to loose it's charge capacity. Incidentally it also means more profits for Apple and the other manufacturers who are going to this battery, since it prevents 3rd parties from making replacement batteries to be installed by the user or providing backup batteries for photographers and others who work in remote locations where power to recharge might not be available.

To change the battery is the same work it would take to upgrade the RAM. Just remove the bottom cover. But the presentation noted that the battery is meant to have a longer lifespan than other batteries. By the time it dies on you chances are you wont even own it anymore and higher density batteries will probably be out for less money. I dont know why you think 3rd-parties cant make a replacement battery. I doubt it soldered in.
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post #96 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign Pulver View Post

MacBook Air's what?

Seriously, it's bad enough when the retarded teenagers on these boards do it, but now the AI staff is randomly inserting apostrophes into words?


The apostrophe is appropriate for showing possession. Its doesn't need it but you add 's to show possession and s' when showing possession for more than one.


In this case it is a toss-up. Macbook Air's is fine and, technically, Macbook Airs' is okay too.
post #97 of 225
I am fine with all of the new changes except one - the video cards. I would have much preferred Apple to have included the 9400/9600 graphics chips to all the systems. A 15 incher without the 9600 seems much less useful than a 13 incher with the 9600 chip.
post #98 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

The apostrophe is appropriate for showing possession. Its doesn't need it but you add 's to show possession and s' when showing possession for more than one.


In this case it is a toss-up. Macbook Air's is fine and, technically, Macbook Airs' is okay too.

the original quote he was addressing was :

"MacBook Air's were also updated with cheaper pricing"

The apostrophe here is wrong...Plural of MacBook Air is MacBook Airs.
post #99 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by xyz001 View Post

the original quote he was addressing was :

"MacBook Air's were also updated with cheaper pricing"

The apostrophe here is wrong...Plural of MacBook Air is MacBook Airs.

I wonder why they thought they needed to use the plural anyway. They didn't say MacBookPros. If they were to say cheaper MacBook Air, don't you think most people would assume all of them would be cheaper from now on?
post #100 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by xyz001 View Post

Now the Sony SR is twice as fast as the macbook. (because of the 4570)

It is just a fact. The Macbook 13" went from being Top-of-the-line to being half as fast.

No, no, you have it backward. The MBP is twice as fast as the Sony. See, 4570 x 2 = 9140. The MBP has a 9400M. The M stands for "More". So, the MBP is more than twice as fast as the Sony. It is just a fact.
post #101 of 225
A friend of mine ordered the 13" Macbook from the Apple online store 2 days ago. Is there any way to change the order to the new 13" Macbook, or is he stuck?
post #102 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by www.teamhcn.com View Post

A friend of mine ordered the 13" Macbook from the Apple online store 2 days ago. Is there any way to change the order to the new 13" Macbook, or is he stuck?

If it hasn't shipped yet, then he should call ASAP, he can probably change it. It's possible they may just send him the newer model and refund him the price difference.
post #103 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

Overall, I think the new range is far better. There's a 15" MacBook (in Pro clothing) for those that wanted a 15" MacBook, and there's a 13" MacBook Pro with FW. Apple needed a cheaper 15", and while I think that $1699 is still a lot of money, it's better than $1999.

I dont...

Where i am they kept the price for the lower models right where they are (well the white goes up a little with the change over to the new processor) adn the 13 MBP stays where the bottomg of the range was. Btu the 15 and 17" come down in price.

I guess sales were mostly around the 13" models, so they kept thier profit margin right where it was there, and the models they did not sell to any great extent got a cut.

Plus teh exchange rate has improved, yet the prices stay wonky.

Yaay apple, guess i dont need to upgrade.
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post #104 of 225
Great macbook pro updates today!
The new 13" is the real deal. I have the feeling "now they got it right".
post #105 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

If it hasn't shipped yet, then he should call ASAP, he can probably change it. It's possible they may just send him the newer model and refund him the price difference.

What's the number he needs to call?

Edit: NVM, I found it. It's 1-800-676-2775.
post #106 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by www.teamhcn.com View Post

A friend of mine ordered the 13" Macbook from the Apple online store 2 days ago. Is there any way to change the order to the new 13" Macbook, or is he stuck?

http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Im....html#topic-21 Because of that policy they usually send the new one, but as Minderbinder states he needs to call immediately to make it more hassle free. If its already sent DO NOT OPEN IT.
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post #107 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

I would like to say to all those glossy haters. Have you played a movie like star trek on a glossy screen, as opposed to a matte screen?

For the great majority of everybody who uses their mac for games or movie playback, glossy is the number one choice.

Every time you complain you make yourselves look like one of those " floppy discs will never die crowd".
Luddite 101.

Glossy simply looks fantastic. And now with the new 9400 chip in the 13 in MBP, glossy will look fantastic while playing COD4.

I watch HULU all day long on my black MB 13IN, and from 15 feet away the glossy picture looks so nice. Apple is approaching untouchable in many area's that it is doing business in. I only wish more apple products were made or assembled in the USA.

Your uses for the computer are not what everyone else does.

Most people use a laptop as a portable computing workstation, in many different enviroments where reflections from a glossy display is very annoying and distracting.

You can't honestly tell me that this Mac is really functional with parts of the screen covered by reflections?

http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/macbook-glare-485.jpg

Also a lot of people, myself included, have weakening eyesight (from using glossy CRTs over the years no less) and the reflections make our eyes work harder because there are two images. One or the other is slightly out of focus and the extra work required to "see" the correct image results in eyestrain and headaches.

Shiny is only good for impulsive consumer sales. But later it causes problems for a lot of people, it just takes time to do the damage and prematurely wear out your eye muscles. Just like listening to loud music too long ruins your hearing.

Pro's in the know, know better and buy anti-glare or matte screen computers. All the best graphic monitors are anti-glare/matte screens.

Apple even offers Anti-glare on the 17" MBP and on their larger monitors, why is this if glossy screens were not a issue?

I had a White glossy MacBook for a girlfriend, setting it up and using it gave me the most horrible headaches and eyestrain.

She got sick of using it because of the reflections and it sat around unused, until someone spilled a beer on it. It was finished and I didn't want to spend the money on fixing it.

I stripped it, smashed the glass screen and tossed it in the trash.

I never felt so much better in my entire life.

Using a glossy screen is like using Windows, it's so fscking inferior and annoying that the only choice is not to use it.

So it's not about what looks good if it's hurting your body and your mind.
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post #108 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Great to see the price drop, but it makes even more obvious how overpriced the desktop offerings are. So when does the mini get an update or price drop? Or some new model that is more competitive and fills the gaping chasm between the mini and the Mac Pro?

I agree -- I'd love to see a significant Mac mini update and value improvement. The spring update was an improvement, but not what one would expect from such a long gestation. Though graphics were upgraded, the price line stayed same, and fact that the high-end mini uses same speed CPU as basic mini is not very compelling -- $200 (1/3 its cost) gets an extra gig of RAM and larger HD only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

... Glossy is here to stay, just get over it; these updates are FANTASTIC across the board, and settle once and for all the whining from 99% of Mac users.

I hope your opinion on glossy does not become the rule... Glossy is an ergonomic disaster for average office or home users. At least for me and the folks I know and have talked and worked with who use their computers in daylight, office light situations to run office-type applications.
Glossy may be great for picture and movie viewing in dark environment, but not so good for actual computer work with reflections to distract.

At least there are aftermarket anti-glare film producers -- Photodon comes to mind, I am sure there are others.

* Any favorites or recommendations out there for anti-glare (matte style) vendors/products that can be user-applied to Mac glossy screens?

I am very happy to see that a FireWire port is back on all models now.
Goes to show that Apple can correct a design mistake.
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post #109 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Haha. Firewire is back - just as I asked for and predicted.
Finally I can buy one.

No you can't. You are against all products that don't offer a replaceable battery.
post #110 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Your uses for the computer are not what everyone else does.

Most people use a laptop as a portable computing workstation, in many different enviroments where reflections from a glossy display is very annoying and distracting.

You can't honestly tell me that this Mac is really functional with parts of the screen covered by reflections?

http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/macbook-glare-485.jpg

Also a lot of people, myself included, have weakening eyesight (from using glossy CRTs over the years no less) and the reflections make our eyes work harder because there are two images. One or the other is slightly out of focus and the extra work required to "see" the correct image results in eyestrain and headaches.

Shiny is only good for impulsive consumer sales. But later it causes problems for a lot of people, it just takes time to do the damage and prematurely wear out your eye muscles. Just like listening to loud music too long ruins your hearing.

Pro's in the know, know better and buy anti-glare or matte screen computers. All the best graphic monitors are anti-glare/matte screens.

Apple even offers Anti-glare on the 17" MBP and on their larger monitors, why is this if glossy screens were not a issue?

I had a White glossy MacBook for a girlfriend, setting it up and using it gave me the most horrible headaches and eyestrain.

She got sick of using it because of the reflections and it sat around unused, until someone spilled a beer on it. It was finished and I didn't want to spend the money on fixing it.

I stripped it, smashed the glass screen and tossed it in the trash.

I never felt so much better in my entire life.

Using a glossy screen is like using Windows, it's so fscking inferior and annoying that the only choice is not to use it.

So it's not about what looks good if it's hurting your body and your mind.

But that's you. I have the (now previous) $1299 unibody MB, and the glossy screen doesn't bother me at all. In fact, it looks leagues better than the 15" PowerBook I replaced it with. The glare doesn't really bother me, and that's the only advantage with a matte screen.

Glossy LCDs have less refraction, and don't have that anti-glare coating distorting their image. It's not much, but it's something. Glossy LCDs will have the best picture quality, matte LCDs are the most versatile for use in varying lighting environments. It's up to you which you like. Personally, I'd choose glossy even if matte WAS available on the 13".
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post #111 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

No you can't. You are against all products that don't offer a replaceable battery.

Dont forget that glossy display he drones on about.
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post #112 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Young View Post

Any favorites or recommendations out there for anti-glare (matte style) vendors/products that can be user-applied to Mac glossy screens?

TechRestore will switch out a glossy in favor of a same matte display. (I get no compensation for mention)

http://www.techrestore.com/xcart/home.php?cat=430

I think this is the best route, anti-glare films trap heat, bubble, crack, peel and collect dirt and grime. Look like crap on a nice machine.

Shame to have to spend more money and possibly void your warranty/Applecare. I would check with Apple that it would still be covered after the "downgrade".

I'm quite upset with Apple, they are just screwing over their Pro market totally, not to mention how many young eyes will need prematurely need glasses due to excessive eyestrain.
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post #113 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlr33 View Post

I just checked all the tech stats on the new line of macbook pros and am seriously confused. There is not a single model, from the 13" to the 17", that has more than one firewire port. This means the basic requirements of video editing do not exist in apples new notebooks. The creators of final cut pro have cut off the notebooks ability to log, capture and edit. How is this possible? I am using a five year old powerbook g4 that is more capable than the brand new, top of the line 17" macbook pro.

Have you ever heard of a FireWire hub? Do you know that more HD cameras transfer video content over USB? Basic requirements of video editing...transfer video to computer and then edit. Yeah, the new MacBook Pros can do that easily. If you like your G4, then keep using it. If you don't like the new models, then don't buy it.
post #114 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

TechRestore will switch out a glossy in favor of a same matte display. (I get no compensation for mention)

http://www.techrestore.com/xcart/home.php?cat=430

I think this is the best route, anti-glare films trap heat, bubble, crack, peel and collect dirt and grime. Look like crap on a nice machine.

Shame to have to spend more money and possibly void your warranty/Applecare. I would check with Apple that it would still be covered after the "downgrade".

I'm quite upset with Apple, they are just screwing over their Pro market totally, not to mention how many young eyes will need prematurely need glasses due to excessive eyestrain.

What a load of BS. Yeah, those increased sales of MacBooks/Pros are really screwing people over. Did you know Macworld printed a poll in their last issue that confirmed that more people preferred the glossy screen? I am sure all those display makers really screwed people over for decades when all their monitors were glossy CRT picture tubes. TV's too! Cellphones all have glossy screens too! Do you avoid those products too?

Excessive eyestrain. Give me a break. Where is your evidence to prove your bullshit claim?
post #115 of 225
With Steve Jobs at the helm the unibody MacBooks get released without Firewire and he supposedly fires off some comment saying it isn't needed.

Shortly afterwards he takes six months sick leave.

In that time Apple craftily finds a way to put firewire back in .

I wish Steve a speedy and full recovery but vote that he take the rest of the year off to build his new palace (I'm sure it will be made out of glass and have a glowing, spinning Apple logo on the roof).

That might give Apple enough time to release a netbook and a low end tower.
post #116 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karelia View Post

But that's you. I have the (now previous) $1299 unibody MB, and the glossy screen doesn't bother me at all....It's up to you which you like. Personally, I'd choose glossy even if matte WAS available on the 13".

I'm not trying to convince you to choose otherwise.

I respect your choice, can you respect others needs for anti-glare computer screens?

Apple can make both, they already do, but only for the 17" MPB and their Apple monitors. Kind of senseless really.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #117 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Also a lot of people, myself included, have weakening eyesight (from using glossy CRTs over the years no less) and the reflections make our eyes work harder because there are two images. One or the other is slightly out of focus and the extra work required to "see" the correct image results in eyestrain and headaches.

Did you every consult an ophthalmologist?

Asthenopia (eye strain) can be caused by a flickering which were a problem in the CRT days. Never heard of glossy screens harming anybody accept if the lighting conditions weren't properly set up, one might see their own reflection too often. Thus creating a psychological impediment.

Perhaps you have a underlying medical condition that prevents your eyes from focusing normally. This could cause eyestrain and headaches, but I don't know of any evidence that suggest CRTs, glossy or otherwise is conclusively an underlying factor; contributing yes, causative no.
post #118 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Your uses for the computer are not what everyone else does.

Most people use a laptop as a portable computing workstation, in many different enviroments where reflections from a glossy display is very annoying and distracting.

You can't honestly tell me that this Mac is really functional with parts of the screen covered by reflections?

http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/macbook-glare-485.jpg

Also a lot of people, myself included, have weakening eyesight (from using glossy CRTs over the years no less) and the reflections make our eyes work harder because there are two images. One or the other is slightly out of focus and the extra work required to "see" the correct image results in eyestrain and headaches.

Shiny is only good for impulsive consumer sales. But later it causes problems for a lot of people, it just takes time to do the damage and prematurely wear out your eye muscles. Just like listening to loud music too long ruins your hearing.

Pro's in the know, know better and buy anti-glare or matte screen computers. All the best graphic monitors are anti-glare/matte screens.

Apple even offers Anti-glare on the 17" MBP and on their larger monitors, why is this if glossy screens were not a issue?

I had a White glossy MacBook for a girlfriend, setting it up and using it gave me the most horrible headaches and eyestrain.

She got sick of using it because of the reflections and it sat around unused, until someone spilled a beer on it. It was finished and I didn't want to spend the money on fixing it.

I stripped it, smashed the glass screen and tossed it in the trash.

I never felt so much better in my entire life.

Using a glossy screen is like using Windows, it's so fscking inferior and annoying that the only choice is not to use it.

So it's not about what looks good if it's hurting your body and your mind.

You post this same BULLSHIT story every chance you get when there is a discussion about screens. I guess you never thought about going to an eye doctor regarding headaches and eyestrain? Perhaps you are getting old? The glossy screen didn't do it, nor did all those CRT displays you looked at. Wow, you are so cool for spilling beer on a laptop and then smashing it to pieces. Bet your girlfriend is happy to be around you. So if Windows is so fucking inferior that the only choice is not to use it, why are you bragging about being a Windows and Vista user in your signature? Go buy PC laptop if you don't like the MacBooks. By the way, PC laptops have had glossy screens far longer than Macs!
post #119 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

What a load of BS. Yeah, those increased sales of MacBooks/Pros are really screwing people over. Did you know Macworld printed a poll in their last issue that confirmed that more people preferred the glossy screen? I am sure all those display makers really screwed people over for decades when all their monitors were glossy CRT picture tubes. TV's too! Cellphones all have glossy screens too! Do you avoid those products too?

Excessive eyestrain. Give me a break. Where is your evidence to prove your bullshit claim?

What are you worried about?

That your precious glossy will be taken away? It won't.

People need a choice since only Apple makes OS X and they have huge investment in their software and need anti-glare computers, especially laptops.

By the way, if you search "glossy vs matte" you'll get a true picture of what people think, including reports of eyestrain.

display makers really screwed people over for decades when all their monitors were glossy CRT picture tubes

In a matter of fact yes they did. Why else would they make anti-glare filters for CRT's if it wasn't a problem?

TV's too! Cellphones all have glossy screens too! Do you avoid those products too?

The best TVs and non-integrated computer monitors (even Apple's) are matte finish. Yes so is mine.

Smaller devices like cell phones can tolerate being glossy because the reflections can be easily avoided by tilting the screen. Much like what is done with a glossy magazine if you every observe people, they do it automatically and without thought.

However after a certain size, the reflections are too much and can't be avoided.

Apple seems to think that 15" is small enough to avoid reflections, but it's not and the evidence is overwhelming.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #120 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Did you every consult an ophthalmologist?

Asthenopia (eye strain) can be caused by a flickering which were a problem in the CRT days. Never heard of glossy screens harming anybody accept if the lighting conditions weren't properly set up, one might see their own reflection too often. Thus creating a psychological impediment.

Perhaps you have a underlying medical condition that prevents your eyes from focusing normally. This could cause eyestrain and headaches, but I don't know of any evidence that suggest CRTs, glossy or otherwise is conclusively an underlying factor; contributing yes, causative no.

I think you got it. He gave himself eyestrain and headaches from looking at himself in the glossy screen! I get headaches from reading the same bullshit posts from him every time this argument arises about glossy vs. matte. And every time he has no evidence to prove his bullshit allegations.
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