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Apple's Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard to retail for $29 in September - Page 2

post #41 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:02pm
$29 it is pretty good deal

Developers please post the what is the performance difference between Leopard and Snow Leopard

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Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
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post #42 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

Nope.. For the first time in my life I will not be buying an OS from Apple, nor will my next hardware purchase be an Apple until the have Full BluRay support. I mean Full. The pro apps getter be able to author BluRay, I better be able to play it and iDVD better have that functioning added too. To have to boot into Windows to run a BluRay is absolutely Pathetic Apple. It's very possible my next machine will be a PC. At least MS tries to support STANDARD technologies.

Hmmmm...while Apple should have Blu-ray support, I guess you've never heard of Toast, or Adobe's Encore?
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post #43 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

I don't see 10.6 competing with or stealing Windows 7's thunder.

Windows 7 is being marketed as a major new OS and OS X 10.6 doesn't offer anything new or exciting for the consumer that you can see on the outside.

What have they added new to Windows 7 that isn't in Vista? I've used the beta of Win 7 and Vista and the only big difference I noticed was the new Taskbar.

There are a number of visual enhancements in Snow Leopard, the Dock and Exposé being big ones. The difference is Apple isn't marketing these as big features, they are just slipping them in.

Windows 7 makes a big play of the new taskbar, because they haven't got as much going on in the back-end (things like HomeGroup are cool and all), but they play catch up to Bonjour, and open standard Microsoft could have been using for years.

For me Snow Leopard is a steal, easily as many features as 10.2 and 10.3 added, but with a far smaller price.
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post #44 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubert View Post

So, with the new Dock Expose, will the traditional action menu be no more? In the demo they said you active Dock Expose by clicking on an icon in the Dock and holding the click. Currently, that does the same as a right click or a control-click.

This is an interesting point. I wonder though how many people used the action menu. I suspect right click will still active it though and click hold will be a separate action for Dock exposé.
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post #45 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:13pm
I've gotta say I'm very happy about this upgrade and the pricing! I have no problem with my mini only being able to go up to the top of 10.5 and my macbook and mac pro will live on! Slimming the OS is a nice surprise as well!
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post #46 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:22pm
They didnt mention a price to upgrade from Tiger, so will Tiger users on the early Macbooks be able to upgrade for $29? or will there just be no upgrade option, maybe requier an archive and install?

That said, I would rather get this next week and the new iphone in 4 months
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post #47 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Windows 7 is being marketed as a major new OS and OS X 10.6 doesn't offer anything new or exciting for the consumer that you can see on the outside.

They can market it however they want, but that doesn't mean people are going to bite. And at $29, 10.6 doesn't have to offer much that is new or exciting - even if it offered nothing beyond being faster and more efficient (and it does), that would be enough for many people to upgrade.
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post #48 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

Nope.. For the first time in my life I will not be buying an OS from Apple, nor will my next hardware purchase be an Apple until the have Full BluRay support. I mean Full. The pro apps getter be able to author BluRay, I better be able to play it and iDVD better have that functioning added too. To have to boot into Windows to run a BluRay is absolutely Pathetic Apple. It's very possible my next machine will be a PC. At least MS tries to support STANDARD technologies.

What's the point of Blu-rays? They are more expensive than hard drive space and less versatile. I use my $20 16 GB flash driveon my PS3 to play HD video. They are hardly a standard, more like a Sony standard.
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post #49 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

I don't see 10.6 competing with or stealing Windows 7's thunder.

Windows 7 is being marketed as a major new OS and OS X 10.6 doesn't offer anything new or exciting for the consumer that you can see on the outside.

How do you quantify this? You don't know what is or isn't exciting to anyone but yourself. Though it's an interesting opinion you have here it cannot be support via facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shanmugam View Post

$29 it is pretty good deal

Developers please post the what is the performance difference between Leopard and Snow Leopard

Apple has a lot of performance figures for improvement in wakup from sleep, shutdown and more on their site now. Clearly SL is going to feel much snappier lol. I'm in for a family pack. Even Time Machine is twice as fast. Kudos Apple!
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post #50 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

when some enterprising people get this working on Dell and HP laptops, i'll be all over it. i'm not in a position to buy a high end laptop right now.

Already running OSX on a Dell.
Mac Mini / Core2Duo 2.0Ghz / 4GB / 64GB G.Skill Falcon SSD / OSX 10.6.0
Dell Mini 9 / Atom 1.6Ghz / 2GB / 32GB RunCore SSD / OSX 10.5.6
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Mac Mini / Core2Duo 2.0Ghz / 4GB / 64GB G.Skill Falcon SSD / OSX 10.6.0
Dell Mini 9 / Atom 1.6Ghz / 2GB / 32GB RunCore SSD / OSX 10.5.6
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post #51 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:41pm
Software guys work for 2 years to get a measly $29 profit from us. My system seems zippy as it is on Leopard without the 'Snow'. I don't get it. I'll get 6GB more space, and better use of memory. What's the catch?
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post #52 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmsley View Post

Software guys work for 2 years to get a measly $29 profit from us. My system seems zippy as it is on Leopard without the 'Snow'. I don't get it. I'll get 6GB more space, and better use of memory. What's the catch?

You can't run it on PPC ..that's the catch.
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post #53 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhomerun View Post

What's the point of Blu-rays?

Playing blu-ray disks? Is that really so hard to figure out?

And it's a particularly important feature for people who are actually trying to author blu-ray disks...most of whom have probably already switched to PC.
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post #54 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxime View Post

Already running OSX on a Dell.

Seems obvious he was talking about 10.6...
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post #55 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

until i can legally or otherwise rip a movie i buy from disc to electrons, i'm not buying blu ray so i can rebuy the same content 20 times for different devices. DVD's you can rip

AnyDVD HD can rip Blu-rays and HD-DVDs. Admittedly, it's a Windows program but then it haven't made much sense to develop one for OS X yet.
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post #56 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Playing blu-ray disks? Is that really so hard to figure out?

And it's a particularly important feature for people who are actually trying to author blu-ray disks...most of whom have probably already switched to PC.

Yup...those who are %.0005 of Apple's userbase.
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post #57 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

You can't run it on PPC ..that's the catch.

Okay, there goes 1 machine.. any other catches?
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post #58 of 125
6/8/09 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Yup...those who are %.0005 of Apple's userbase.

Gee, then I guess Apple is wasting their time by going to the trouble of creating Final Cut Studio? I thought media used to be one of Apple's strong points?
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post #59 of 125
6/8/09 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Gee, then I guess Apple is wasting their time by going to the trouble of creating Final Cut Studio? I thought media used to be one of Apple's strong points?

It is but Blu-ray was a boondoggle from the beginning. The draconian DRM and licensing costs couple with a craptastic BD-Java menu system that still causes fits. Total non starter. iHD was better and preferred by Apple and Blu-ray's licensing of course did not make Apple feel any rosier.

I never felt like the HD optical formats had much more than 6-7 years and I still feel that way. Who the hell is the BDA to tell me that I "must" license AACS encryption for my disc? They can go....to....hell.
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post #60 of 125
6/8/09 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

It is but Blu-ray was a boondoggle from the beginning. The draconian DRM and licensing costs couple with a craptastic BD-Java menu system that still causes fits. Total non starter. iHD was better and preferred by Apple and Blu-ray's licensing of course did not make Apple feel any rosier.

Boondoggle or not, money is being made selling BD disks, and money is being made authoring BD disks. Just not by people who use macs.
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post #61 of 125
6/8/09 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Boondoggle or not, money is being made selling BD disks, and money is being made authoring BD disks. Just not by people who use macs.

Great if you're a major...sucks if your Indie. In a way I'm glad Apple's not sucking off the Blu-ray teet. Perhaps in 5 years we'll have more open standard for encapsulating media content with metadata that doesn't come with draconian DRM and licensing requirements.

My guess is if we see this it'll be with nextgen encoding. Until then we'll see and I'll be enjoying Snow Leopard ...even sans Blu-ray.
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post #62 of 125
6/8/09 at 2:35pm
I do not get the whole Blue Ray support thing. First, have you ever read the Blue Ray support terms? Blue Ray is designed to greatly tighten content holders control over content. It requires hardware companies like Apple and software companies like Microsoft to lock down their products in a way that causes significant performance hits. Here is a semi good article on the topic.

Second, in today's tough economic times adding Blue Ray increases the cost of ownership just when Apple needs to lower cost. Third, there are third party options if you have to have Blue Ray.

Apple obviously was an early member of the Blue Ray camp. It isn't adding it because on balance it doesn't make sense to add it yet.

Fourth, Apple demonstrated today that is listens to customers. It brought Firewire back to it's entire line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

Nope.. For the first time in my life I will not be buying an OS from Apple, nor will my next hardware purchase be an Apple until the have Full BluRay support. I mean Full. The pro apps getter be able to author BluRay, I better be able to play it and iDVD better have that functioning added too. To have to boot into Windows to run a BluRay is absolutely Pathetic Apple. It's very possible my next machine will be a PC. At least MS tries to support STANDARD technologies.
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post #63 of 125
6/8/09 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

They didnt mention a price to upgrade from Tiger, so will Tiger users on the early Macbooks be able to upgrade for $29?

No.
"Mac OS X version 10.6 Snow Leopard will be available as an upgrade to Mac OS X version 10.5 Leopard "
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post #64 of 125
6/8/09 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

No.
"Mac OS X version 10.6 Snow Leopard will be available as an upgrade to Mac OS X version 10.5 Leopard "

http://www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html

Upgrading from Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger.
If your Intel-based Mac is running Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger, purchase the Mac Box Set (when available), which is a single, affordable package that includes Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard; iLife 09, with the latest versions of iPhoto, iMovie, GarageBand, iWeb, and iDVD; and iWork 09, Apples productivity suite for home and office including Pages, Numbers, and Keynote.
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post #65 of 125
6/8/09 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Playing blu-ray disks? Is that really so hard to figure out?

And it's a particularly important feature for people who are actually trying to author blu-ray disks...most of whom have probably already switched to PC.

I know of several video production customers who have had to move away from Apple for just this reason. They had to either buy a PC or lose the customer to someone who offered Blu-Ray. Digital videos are the future, but the DRM and hardware situation there isn't any better than Blu-Ray.
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post #66 of 125
6/8/09 at 3:23pm
So is ZFS going to come onto the desktop client version of Snow Leopard? That's the only feature I want from Snow Leopard really. ZFS root for Snow Leopard with L2ARC caching with a cluster of USB flash drives would rock the world for Mac users.
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post #67 of 125
6/8/09 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by taoshen1983 View Post

So is ZFS going to come onto the desktop client version of Snow Leopard? That's the only feature I want from Snow Leopard really. ZFS root for Snow Leopard with L2ARC caching with a cluster of USB flash drives would rock the world for Mac users.

ZFS support is waaaaaaay down the list of important features IMO. I'd rather have a native iSCSI initiator. Though right now with Sun being acquired by Oracle I think ZFS licensing is in limbo and thus likely pulled from SL until further notice.
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post #68 of 125
6/8/09 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

ZFS support is waaaaaaay down the list of important features IMO. I'd rather have a native iSCSI initiator. Though right now with Sun being acquired by Oracle I think ZFS licensing is in limbo and thus likely pulled from SL until further notice.

We just have different workloads. For IO heavy workloads I do these days, ZFS on OpenSolaris has given me nearly 10x IO improvements. It would be great to use it on the Macs one day.

It is interesting that even with Snow Leopard Server, they stopped mentioning ZFS on the website, which is a shame. Oracle is a monster now, controlling both BTRFS for Linux and ZFS for Solaris/OpenSolaris/Hopefully Snow Leopard.

So, let me ask again, does anyone from Apple know for sure if the Snow Leopard Desktop and Server will come with ZFS?
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post #69 of 125
6/8/09 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDreamworx View Post

I doubt that Exchange Support will be a full Outlook client.

Considering Entourage is not.

The Exchange support will be using ActiveSync, so while it is not "full" support (ie: MAPI), it is more than Entourage currently provides. Essentially this is the level of email support that the iPhone 2.2 OS provides, but with better support for contacts, calendar, etc.

Or seen another way, this is the same level of support that you would get on a WindowsMobile device.
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post #70 of 125
6/8/09 at 3:46pm
$29 is exactly what I was expecting.
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post #71 of 125
6/8/09 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by columbus View Post

What have they added new to Windows 7 that isn't in Vista? I've used the beta of Win 7 and Vista and the only big difference I noticed was the new Taskbar.

New Taskbar, new window controls (Aero Snap and Aero Peek), full multi touch support, virtual folders (libraries) for user files, complete new network connection ui, complete new ui standard for apps (called "Scenic Ribbon") introduced in new versions of Paint and WordPad (first update since a decade), new font rendering, hardware accelerated 2d graphics API, DirectX 11, GPU acceleration for apps, CPU acceleration for 3D (WARP), unified and centralized notification system (Action Center), a new themes system, out-of-the-box codec support even for .mov files, impressive performance improvements.

Are you sure you have tested it?

For me it is clear why Apple has chosen to deliver this next update for a special price: it is more or less just a Service Pack with some new features. But it is a wise move.
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post #72 of 125
6/8/09 at 3:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Boondoggle or not, money is being made selling BD disks, and money is being made authoring BD disks. Just not by people who use macs.

Just not by people who use Macs and running OS X to be more precise. You can for example do your HD editing in Final Cut, reboot into Windows and author a Blu-Ray disc using some Windows software - you may even be able to author a disc using VMWare or similar and simply burn the image from Toast or in Windows directly.

For some reason you can't play commercial Blu-Ray movies in VMWare as there is no native support for it in Windows either and 3rd party software doesn't work. But you can still reboot into Windows to watch Blu-Ray movies.

It's not the best workflow not having native Blu-Ray support in OS X but I guess that's just how it's going to have to be until someone figures out a way to make supporting the format easier.

Maybe Apple plan to get people adopting SD cards in order that the price drops and then convince movie studios to distribute on those instead of a huge disc. SD already gives you 32GB, has fast transfers, is very compact and is silent. The only problem is that it costs £65 for each of those cards. If it cost £2 like a BD-R, I'd gladly support it over Blu-Ray.

For one thing, it would be so much easier to give demo HD footage to a client without the slow disc authoring and burning.
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post #73 of 125
6/8/09 at 3:58pm
But where is the full Hybrid SLi support? I find it old-fashioned that I still have to enable the faster GFX manually on my otherwise beloved unibody MBP.
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post #74 of 125
6/8/09 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Just not by people who use Macs and running OS X to be more precise. You can for example do your HD editing in Final Cut, reboot into Windows and author a Blu-Ray disc using some Windows software - you may even be able to author a disc using VMWare or similar and simply burn the image from Toast or in Windows directly.

You're absolutely right. But that's not really a win for Apple, is it?
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post #75 of 125
6/8/09 at 4:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post

New Taskbar, new window controls (Aero Snap and Aero Peek), full multi touch support, virtual folders (libraries) for user files, complete new network connection ui, complete new ui standard for apps (called "Scenic Ribbon") introduced in new versions of Paint and WordPad (first update since a decade), new font rendering, hardware accelerated 2d graphics API, DirectX 11, GPU acceleration for apps, CPU acceleration for 3D (WARP), unified and centralized notification system (Action Center), a new themes system, out-of-the-box codec support even for .mov files, impressive performance improvements.

Are you sure you have tested it?

For me it is clear why Apple has chosen to deliver this next update for a special price: it is more or less just a Service Pack with some new features. But it is a wise move.

Do service packs have a complete overhaul of multithreading, a complete move to 64bit, a completely new language specification that runs GPUs as CPUs, etc?

Maybe WIndows 7 is a good overhaul graphically and layout wise, but it seems mighty lacking in core changes. Almost everything is to improve the perceived "horribleness" of Vista.
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post #76 of 125
6/8/09 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfmorrison View Post

By this it appears that you're concerned that you won't be able to use your G4 or G5 based Mac anymore come September when Snow Leopard is released.

Rest assured, those computers will not magically stop working on that day. (On the other hand, my G5 iMac died several months ago, apparently due to exploding capacitors, but that's another story...) And all the same apps that ran on them before will still run on them after.

If you're concerned about the end of security support, your fears are also unfounded. Note that Apple is still actively releasing security updates for Tiger.

If you're just concerned about the fact that new OSes are not being released for PowerPC-based Macs, well, all I can say is, this shouldn't be coming as a surprise: We've heard for quite some time now that the Snow Leopard betas would only run on Intel-based systems.

Ditto with my iMac G5, which stopped working shortly after its 3-year AppleCare extended warranty expired.
(What I want to know - how does the computer know that it's {contraction for "it is" } time to kick the bucket only after its warranty expires??)

At least at this point, any new Mac I get will have or be able to get the Snow Leopard, which sounds like a big performance improvement over Leopard.
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post #77 of 125
6/8/09 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

My iBook G4 with Tiger is 4 years old. It would have been nice to get Snow Leopard for it, but I can understand why it won't be available, given that the PowerPC part of the market must be around 10% or less now, and many of them will be looking to upgrade in the near future anyway. It might be worse for PowerMac owners, who might have bought for longevity.

Instead I will look at buying a new Mac come 10.6.2, but what shall I get?! Let's see how the money situation is in January.

Are there any reliable surveys out there which compare the Mac processor installed-base user share?
--> G3 / G4 / G5 / Intel Core 2 Duo (C2D)
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post #78 of 125
6/8/09 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

They didnt mention a price to upgrade from Tiger, so will Tiger users on the early Macbooks be able to upgrade for $29? or will there just be no upgrade option, maybe requier an archive and install?

That said, I would rather get this next week and the new iphone in 4 months

The Apple Snow Leopard page states, somewhat cryptically (IMO):


http://www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html
Upgrading from Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard.
- If your Intel-based Mac is running Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard, just purchase Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard when it’s available and follow the simple installation instructions.

Upgrading from Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger.
- If your Intel-based Mac is running Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger, purchase the Mac Box Set (when available), which is a single, affordable package that includes Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard; iLife ’09, ... and iWork ’09
It makes it sound like the $29 Snow Leopard on-the-shelf retail box will be an Upgrade-Only installation. With no provision for a Snow Leopard full-install box release -- except for the bundle with iLife, iWork.
At the current Apple store list price of $169, it's a good value if you need all 3 products, but not so good if you only want to get Snow Leopard OS for a Tiger equipped Mac-Intel.
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post #79 of 125
6/8/09 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG4G View Post

Do service packs have a complete overhaul of multithreading, a complete move to 64bit, a completely new language specification that runs GPUs as CPUs, etc?

Maybe WIndows 7 is a good overhaul graphically and layout wise, but it seems mighty lacking in core changes. Almost everything is to improve the perceived "horribleness" of Vista.

Vista SP1 had a new kernel and Windows 7 also will have a new one. I said it is more or less a Service Pack with a few new features. What "horribleness" you mean? Any examples? Or you mean horrible Vista marketing?
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post #80 of 125
6/8/09 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrk View Post

Anyone care to speculate how the $49 family pack will cope with a "mixed" household? I have 3 machines to update - 2 from Leopard, 1 from Tiger. Would be nice if I only had to buy 1 pack to upgrade them all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DayLight View Post

can you use the upgrade snow leopard in a clean install or do you have to have leopard preinstalled everytime ?

from what I can tell, the 'upgrades' require you to have Leopard on the machine so if you have Tiger you must get the full version.
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