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iPhone 3G users to pay $200 premium for early upgrade to iPhone 3G S - Page 9

post #321 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by DustinLH00 View Post


AT&T allows customers to upgrade at the following intervals, based on their average bill amount (voice & data plans only):

12 Months = Over $99.99
18 Months = $69.99 to $99.99
24 Months = Under $69.99

Any idea how this works with multi-phone-number accounts?

In my case, I bought a 1G Iphone on 12/26/2007, alongside a Samsung Sync for my wife.
On July 24th 2008 I upgraded to a 3G. On 2/15/2009, Sandi finally caved in and took the 1G Iphone because the Sync so completely sucked.

The Apple site tells me that my phone is available for upgrade on 12/26/2009, and hers on 8/15/2009. None of this quite matches up to what you are saying.
post #322 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramphex View Post

(link removed) sign it guys, this isn't fair

What a stupid petition. Not to mention the sad fact that it made repeated mistakes with the use of apostrophes. Pitiful. I would be afraid what intelligent people would think if my name was found on such a petition.
post #323 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramphex View Post

(link removed) sign it guys, this isn't fair

Absolutely not. While I hope AT&T offers current iPhone users a discount from the typical “upgrade ineligible” price that is standard across US carriers and cell phones, feeling entitled to it is just plain jackassary. Not to mention the complete lunacy of comments like, " A person off the road can sign up for a 2 year contract and get an iPhone 3GS for a price of $199.” Seriously?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noncontrition Petition

The first year iPhone came out, people waited in lines for hours and everyone was able to upgrade to it and purchase it at it's list price. The second year the iPhone 3G came out, everyone stood in lines for hours again and was once again able to purchase the device at it's list price. There is no reason why in 2009 3rd generation iPhone 3GS is an exclusion and users have to pay high amounts ranging from $399-599 for the device. Apple and AT&T need to figure this out before there are too many angry customers. A person off the road can sign up for a 2 year contract and get an iPhone 3GS for a price of $199... so how come current users HAVE to upgrade to 2 more years but they don't get the same privilege of only paying $199 and have to cash out a while $399?
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post #324 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Absolutely not. While I hope AT&T offers current iPhone users a discount from the typical upgrade ineligible price that is standard across US carriers and cell phones, feeling entitled to it is just plain jackassary. Not to mention the complete lunacy of comments like, " A person off the road can sign up for a 2 year contract and get an iPhone 3GS for a price of $199. Seriously?

What if that petition is really a trick perpetrated by the Ivy League schools to create a list of people to exclude from admissions. Pretty smart, eh? Or maybe an effort by the TSA to bolster the reliability of the no fly list?

Honey pot
post #325 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramphex View Post

(link removed) sign it guys, this isn't fair

What's not fair is spamming a forum to drive traffic to your lame entitlement-minded poll. I don't like AT&T, but at least I try to be realistic in my expections. This is simply being petty and unrealistic.
post #326 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Because there is no such rule. ATT gets to decide who they allow to BREAK THE CONTRACT agreed to by both parties.

That was the "rule" that I was quoted by AT&T this morning. AT&T and Apple mutually agreed to this upgrade allowance that you may upgrade at the new user price after 18 months. That is why people who bought the 3G when it came out are elible for the new user price in December of this year.
post #327 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgunther View Post

That was the "rule" that I was quoted by AT&T this morning. AT&T and Apple mutually agreed to this upgrade allowance that you may upgrade at the new user price after 18 months. That is why people who bought the 3G when it came out are elible for the new user price in December of this year.

Not all, actually. Some this July, some this December, and some next May. And these distinct groups are defined by a system none of us understand at all.
post #328 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgunther View Post

That was the "rule" that I was quoted by AT&T this morning. AT&T and Apple mutually agreed to this upgrade allowance that you may upgrade at the new user price after 18 months. That is why people who bought the 3G when it came out are elible for the new user price in December of this year.

Sorry, it's not a rule. The reason you know it's not a rule is self-evident - if it was a rule then it would apply to everyone. It is under ATT's discretion who they allow to break the contract.

You were quoted the rule by an individual, not by ATT. We all know that plenty of false information has come out of random telephone or in-store personnel, right?
post #329 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgunther View Post

That was the "rule" that I was quoted by AT&T this morning. AT&T and Apple mutually agreed to this upgrade allowance that you may upgrade at the new user price after 18 months. That is why people who bought the 3G when it came out are elible for the new user price in December of this year.

Oh and by the way, I bought the 3G in August of last year.

My monthly bill is $119 per month.

Want to guess when I can get the new iPhone?

Multiple choice:
a) Dec 1
b) Mar 1
c) Sept 1
post #330 of 430
Wow...there really seems to be major differing of opinions with regard to this situation. I haven't read every post in the thread, so please forgive me if this has already been addressed.

With regard to the iPhone 3Gs 32GB (which is the only version I would consider upgrading to) I keep seeing people referring to the fact the phone is a $700 device ($699 to be exact). I hope you folks realize this is NOT the amount AT&T pays for the phone. Think of it as MSRP on a vehicle. A dealer pays invoice (which is often several thousand dollars below sticker) and hopes to sell it for MSRP (or more if it is a high demand vehicle). With this in mind, the amount AT&T pays Apple for this version of the device is probably in the neighborhood of $600.

When you compare the data plans for the original (1st gen) iPhone (which AT&T did not subsidize) to the iPhone 3G there is a difference of $30/month ($10 more for the data/$20 for unlimited text). That's $360 after the first year. Adding the upfront cost of $299 I paid for the 16GB iPhone 3G, I'd say AT&T has more then recouped their $600.

For you iPhone 3G owners that are eligible for the full subsidized price ($299) of the iPhone 3Gs 32GB in July; this is as it should be. For those of you that are being asked to wait until December or March of next year (and purchased the 3G on or near it's release date last July) need to contact AT&T and raise hell (oh...this is assuming you also paid the $20/month for the unlimited text plan).
post #331 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonjo8 View Post

When you compare the data plans for the original (1st gen) iPhone (which AT&T did not subsidize) to the iPhone 3G there is a difference of $30/month ($10 more for the data/$20 for unlimited text). That's $360 after the first year. Adding the upfront cost of $299 I paid for the 16GB iPhone 3G, I'd say AT&T has more then recouped their $600.

Welcome to the board!

The iPhone 2G did not come with unlimited texts. The difference in price between the plans at the iPhone 2G level of service (unlimited internet, 200 texts) is $15, not $30.

And it's not for you to decide whether ATT has recouped it's subsidy. Thankfully, this is not Cuba, and businesses themselves get to decide what level of profit they want to make per UNCOERCED sale. Not you. If they set the price too high, an educated consumer does not buy.

Clearly we have a lot of uneducated consumers here. I for one would be ashamed of that was me, but apparently these days, it's a matter of pride to shout from the rooftop how uneducated one is.
post #332 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHKOsta View Post

Of course, being that my date is 03/23/10, I think I'll probably take a pass on the 3G S, and wait for next year's model.

If your upgrade price is still only $499, it makes even more sense to NOT WAIT another 9 months since you can rationalize the $200 premium over 9 months instead of only 6 months like I have to. But there are way too many compelling reasons to own the 3G S now rather than next Spring. Remember it's highly likely there will be another newer iPhone model released next June as well.

I wish AT&T would make the upgrade premium $100 instead of $200 for those of us with only 6 months 'til their "new customer" upgrade price. After all we are only paying them $10 more per month than the original iPhone customers did from 2007-2008. So $100 is still more than that over the next 6 months. In any event, whatever they settle on I will pay next Friday because my iPhone is not a phone to me but rather a pocket Mac that I want performing top notch. Plus I'm a videographer and the video capabilities of the new iPhone 3G S mean a lot to me. I can easily find 10 reasons to pay $20 each for all the hardware changes in the new iPhone 3G S primary of which is its 32GB capacity.

My 16GB 3G iPhone has been full to capacity since the day I bought it. Even my 160GB iPod is full to capacity. So I can never have enough RAM in these devices for quite a few more years. Will be buying the 64GB iPod Touch the day it ships as well. I carry both devices with me everywhere I go and use them both every day for various reasons. Both are full up to capacity. I'm an iPhone/Touch pimp.

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post #333 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

Can anyone in this thread count? Anyone?

Your contract with AT&T is TWO years. Understood? 1 + 1 = 2 years.

AT&T has decided to offer subsidized pricing to ALL iPhone customers of 1 year or more. This is not required, expected, or even necessary given the TWO year contract you signed.

AT&T may be a horrible company (they are, I assure you), but give credit where its due. All 3G owners will be eligible for subsidy halfway through their contract. Unlike Verizon, or Sprint, or any other U.S. carrier.

Thanks for that bit of sanity.

But it's wasted in all the cacophony here.
post #334 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbmichals View Post

I got my Iphone for my anniversary on May 22, 2009. At that time neither the people at Cingular, nor my husbands' friend who works for AT&T knew they were going to have a new phone. We all new about the upgrade, but thought that was it. Or I would have waited for the new phone. This really pisses my off. They should have let us know in advance. How much will I have to pay to take my phone back, get refund and rebuy the new phone? Will they even let us do that? Or will they say that you already redid your contract and are SOL.

EVERYONE KNEW there was going to be a new iPhone since the beginning of time. Get with the program. Apple doesn't let any of their hardware flounder longer than 12 months MAX. It was common knowledge the new faster 32GB iPhone would be announced yesterday.

Go to the store where you bought it and cancel your purchase and put your number back on the phone it replace so you don't lose your number. Then get in line next Friday for the new one.

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post #335 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by DustinLH00 View Post

After reading through this thread, I realize that maybe it is not as well known as I thought it was, so I wanted to re-post this without the negative tone to it. I located an Upgrade Matrix chart online several months ago. I took this cart into AT&T and confirmed with the staff that it was accurate. The chart is not a complicated alogrithm, it is very simple. Also, AT&T will allow SOME people to upgrade early for a fee of $75. This would be an option for some, I did have to say I was having problems with my current phone to use this last time.

AT&T allows customers to upgrade at the following intervals, based on their average bill amount (voice & data plans only):

12 Months = Over $99.99
18 Months = $69.99 to $99.99
24 Months = Under $69.99

They use your average bill from the past 3 billing cycles to determine this. Overages, taxes, fees, insurance, roadside assistance, gps, etc.. do not count toward that total.

Doesn't seem to be the case for me - I've averaged over $100/mo for the last year (never a late payment) but fall into the 18mo category. Are these requirements PER LINE?
post #336 of 430
Clearly, Apple needs to announce new products at least 3 months in advance, so they can kill the sales of their current models. Naturally, the gratitude of their customers will more than make up for the lost profits.

Actually, Apple just needs to stop updating products altogether, or be prepared to pay reparations to anyone who has purchased anything until now, since why should people with older hardware be expected to pay Apple's outrageous list price for new stuff that's better? For God's sake, they already bought a laptop once, you'd think a demonstration of loyalty like that would be worth something, but apparently fucking Nazi death monster Apple doesn't think so.

Thanks for nothing, you evil soulless bastards.
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post #337 of 430
where can i buy the no contract iphone
post #338 of 430
Will be waiting for me after I wait 2 days outside the store to be FIRST in line for the new iPhone. See yall there Wednesday afternoon.

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post #339 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by moofrank View Post

Any idea how this works with multi-phone-number accounts?

In my case, I bought a 1G Iphone on 12/26/2007, alongside a Samsung Sync for my wife.
On July 24th 2008 I upgraded to a 3G. On 2/15/2009, Sandi finally caved in and took the 1G Iphone because the Sync so completely sucked.

The Apple site tells me that my phone is available for upgrade on 12/26/2009, and hers on 8/15/2009. None of this quite matches up to what you are saying.

I believe the primary account has the higher balance and therefore would most likely be eligible sooner than the others, but honestly I am not sure on that one. After discussing with a colleague today, his primary phone has a $130 monthly fee and the other 2 only have $30 fees and his phone is eligible and theirs arent yet...
post #340 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funderling View Post

Doesn't seem to be the case for me - I've averaged over $100/mo for the last year (never a late payment) but fall into the 18mo category. Are these requirements PER LINE?

My understanding is yes, that is per line. I was not told differently, but am not 100% familiar with the family plans. Remember that your voice plan and data plan must be over $100.

Remember, this goes along with the ability of AT&T to collect back the money it lost on the phone. They are not making much money on additional lines, so I could see why those would have to wait longer...
post #341 of 430
I honestly cannot believe all of this pricing drama that has been going on. I don't know what is so hard for everyone to understand about how this process works, but so many people don't want to think, they just want to bitch about something.

AT&T buys the iPhone from Apple for a price much higher than you see. AT&T buys the iPhone 3GS 16gb model for $599. They know you will not buy it, so they sell it to you for $199 ($400 discount), BUT make you sign a 2 year agreement with them to recoup the $400 they lost in selling you the phone. If you are paying more than $100 a month for just voice and data plans, they will obviously recoup that cost more quickly than they would if you were paying $30 a month, so therefore these customers can upgrade after 12 months.

This is how upgrades are handled by other carriers and phone manufacturers. Now, Apple is not obligated to tell you when they are releasing the next new product. Give me a g damn break people. You swear like there are not other companies that release new products without flying a banner in the sky saying "Hey don't buy our current products! New ones coming soon! Retailers please throw away our old products!" Take a few minutes out of your day and read up on tech news if you are going to buy tech products, or don't be mad when you are not in the loop.

I posted the upgrade matrix chart and yet people are still claiming that "nobody knows how they determine the date". Read the freaking posts people. Please, please, please try to think of this from a business perspective and not a pouty teenager frame of mind. AT&T cannot continue to lose money every year on upgrades. If they let you upgrade every 11 or 12 months, chances are they only got $200 of the $400 they lost back and they will lose $200 a year on you at that rate. Think about it.
post #342 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by DustinLH00 View Post

Think about it.

First, let me say I love you using a quote from store owner in the movie "Falling Down" to make your point.

Second, I'm not exactly sure how much AT&T "subsizes" the phone. Why don't I know? It's not in our contracts, or anywhere to be seen on their website.

I think what some of us want are more transparency in our contracts - like taking all the fine print and putting it on the advertisements in some form. Something like: "iPhone 3G, just $199 for two years - even if a new iPhone is released before that time."

I think a lot of us are with AT&T because of Apple - not by choice. And we want iPhones - and the current generation iPhone.

I know AT&T is making money off of us each month.

I pay for a higher rate plan because of the draconian fees charged if I go over my alloted minutes. So much so that I have 4,700 rollover minutes on my account. But If I change my minute plan I lose all of my rollover minutes over the amount offered per month on the new plan by AT&T.

So paying them $20 less a month I would lose 4,000 minutes that I had previously paid for - that's $350 worth of minutes under the new plan and literally several thousand dollars worth of minutes if I used an equalliavnt amount on a lower plan with no rollover bank. How is that fair? Not very - but it is in the contract.

The contracts HIGHLY favor AT&T - and you're in here defending poor AT&T who can't get a fair shake from crazy iPhone WHINERS!

AT&T may have us legally on this - but in no way is it fair. And it's not WHINING to point this out. it may even ultimately help us to get a fairer deal.

Or let me translate for you "Boo hoo! me want a more level playing field on my contwack . Whhaa-whaa! Me think AT&T is using it's unfair bidness prawticted aginstst all us poor whiddle users. Wha!! Its wegal but shady. (Here I poop my pants and cry for my mommy.)"
post #343 of 430
Dude. The point you and others seem incapable of grasping is that everything you're railing against is bone stock standard practices for the entire. ****. Cell phone. Industry.

It's how they've sold phones for the last 10 years. It's how they'll sell phones next year and the next. AT&T. Verizon. Sprint. T-Mobile. The Blackberry. HTC. LG. Nokia.

There is nothing unusual about what AT&T is doing, not with the iPhone, not with the contracts, not with nothing. Nothing. No how. Stop. Please. For the baby Jesus.

If you want to carry on about the cell phone industry sucking, by all means. But for the love of God could you people stop acting like you fell off a turnip truck and came into the big city to buy you a damn iPhone as the very first phone you had ever owned, all full of bright promise and joyful anticipation, only to find yourself all bitter and shattered cause the mean city slickers used their fancy talk and slick ways to trick you?

KNOWING THIS IS TRUE IS NOT **** BEING AN APOLOGIST FOR AT&T. IT IS JUST KNOWING SOMETHING TRIVIAL ABOUT HOW THE DAMN WORLD WORKS.

EDIT: Enough already.
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post #344 of 430
Wow. Ok. Well maybe I am not coming off the way I intended...

I am not defending AT&T, or at least I am not trying to. I am just saying that AT&T is just like the other providers out there with this upgrade nonsense.

I agree with you that things lilke subsidized cost and upgrade requirements or matricies should be stated clearly in the contract.

But, in my defense...most of the bitching on this website has been 1 or 2 lines of "This is crap" and "If they think this is fair..." There has not been as much discussion about the clearity of the contracts.

Those were the issues I was addressing. Do I think iPhone 3G owners are whining about having to pay $200 more to upgrade? Yes, the majority of them are. It just annoys me because I have had to wait for eligibility with my last 6 phone upgrades, that is how it works.

Also, if Apple felt that AT&T should subsidize the iPhone EVERY year, then they would have included that in the exclusivity contract they entered into. Obviously, Apple is ok with AT&T resorting to their standard upgrade procedures, or at least they were aware of it.
post #345 of 430
+1 thank you!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

dude. The point you and others seem incapable of grasping is that everything you're railing against is bone stock standard practices for the entire. ****. Cell phone. Industry.

It's how they've sold phones for the last 10 years. It's how they'll sell phones next year and the next. At&t. Verizon. Sprint. T-mobile. The blackberry. Htc. Lg. Nokia.

there is nothing unusual about what at&t is doing, not with the iphone, not with the contracts, not with nothing. nothing. No how. Stop. Please. For the baby jesus.

If you want to carry on about the cell phone industry sucking, by all means. But for the love of god could you people stop acting like you fell off a turnip truck and came into the big city to buy you a damn iphone as the very first phone you had ever owned, all full of bright promise and joyful anticipation, only to find yourself all bitter and shattered cause the mean city slickers used their fancy talk and slick ways to trick you?

Knowing this is true is not **** being an apologist for at&t. It is just knowing something trivial about how the damn world works.
post #346 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Dude. The point you and others seem incapable of grasping is that everything you're railing against is bone stock standard practices for the entire. . Cell phone. Industry.

It's how they've sold phones for the last 10 years. It's how they'll sell phones next year and the next. AT&T. Verizon. Sprint. T-Mobile. The Blackberry. HTC. LG. Nokia.

There is nothing unusual about what AT&T is doing, not with the iPhone, not with the contracts, not with nothing. Nothing. No how. Stop. Please. For the baby Jesus.

If you want to carry on about the cell phone industry sucking, by all means. But for the love of God could you people stop acting like you fell off a turnip truck and came into the big city to buy you a damn iPhone as the very first phone you had ever owned, all full of bright promise and joyful anticipation, only to find yourself all bitter and shattered cause the mean city slickers used their fancy talk and slick ways to trick you?

KNOWING THIS IS TRUE IS NOT BEING AN APOLOGIST FOR AT&T. IT IS JUST KNOWING SOMETHING TRIVIAL ABOUT HOW THE DAMN WORLD WORKS.

No, it's being an apologizst for a consumer unfriendly system. We know that the system currently works this way - and we want it to change.

Some people consider it whining. Others consider unfair to our corporate overlords.

The contracts for nearly all cell phone carriers are completely unfair to the consumer. And becuase we signed them they are legally binding. It doesn't mean that we can't ask for a change. And if AT&T agrees we can sign a different contract.

I thought this is how the free market was supposed to work? Or is it supposed to only work in the way where a corporation has an advantage? or the party who thinks they are not being treated fairly needs to shut up and "take it like a man"( or some other macho line that an alcholoic dad would yell after punching his child at a soccer game?)
post #347 of 430
I again totally understand what you are saying here as well. But, the logical side of me simply says "then don't sign the contract". I don't think the corporations should rule the world, but on the flip side, you cannot "change" anything by signing a contract with them, pay them regularly and then bitch to them.

If anyone in here feels that this is an unfair practice by AT&T or cellular providers as a whole, then DO NOT ENTER INTO A CONTRACT with them. Refuse to buy an iPhone until they reveal the details you wish to see in your contract. Send letters to them stating this. Stand outside the stores with a sign warning others. Will this work? Who knows, but it sounds like a path to change, or at least more effective then buying their product, agreeing to their terms, paying them as agreed to and then saying "by the way, this is totally unfair..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhayes View Post

No, it's being an apologizst for a consumer unfriendly system. We know that the system currently works this way - and we want it to change.

Some people consider it whining. Others consider unfair to our corporate overlords.

The contracts for nearly all cell phone carriers are completely unfair to the consumer. And becuase we signed them they are legally binding. It doesn't mean that we can't ask for a change. And if AT&T agrees we can sign a different contract.

I thought this is how the free market was supposed to work? Or is it supposed to only work in the way where a corporation has an advantage? or the party who thinks they are not being treated fairly needs to shut up and "take it like a man"( or some other macho line that an alcholoic dad would yell after punching his child at a soccer game?)
post #348 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by DustinLH00 View Post

Wow. Ok. Well maybe I am not coming off the way I intended...

I am not defending AT&T, or at least I am not trying to. I am just saying that AT&T is just like the other providers out there with this upgrade nonsense.

Those were the issues I was addressing. Do I think iPhone 3G owners are whining about having to pay $200 more to upgrade? Yes, the majority of them are. It just annoys me because I have had to wait for eligibility with my last 6 phone upgrades, that is how it works.
.

Why is it WHINING if someone voices the opinion that they are being treated UNFAIRLY?

That's my beef.

It's the same language used by some in politics who say the people we tortured where WHINERS becuase wanted the torture to stop. Or that women were WHINERS when asking for the vote.
Or that freed slaves in the south WHINED about the literacy test and poll taxes.

Now - a smart phone is NOWHERE is important as those other issues - but it does seem to be a pathology used by people to defend the status quo against change. Change that will sometimes make a system more fair.

Just state your willingness to keep the unfair status quo system in place we'll accept that - or log off this thread and enjoy the WHINERS who WHINE about no firewire ports, or that the 30" displays are due for a refresh in other threads
post #349 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by DustinLH00 View Post

I again totally understand what you are saying here as well. But, the logical side of me simply says "then don't sign the contract". I don't think the corporations should rule the world, but on the flip side, you cannot "change" anything by signing a contract with them, pay them regularly and then bitch to them.

Why Not?? It doesn't mean the "bitching" or - as some WHINERS would call it - asking to re-negotiate with a company is bad in itself? They could jsut say "NO" couldn't they? And legally they'd just continue to collect form the contract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DustinLH00 View Post

If anyone in here feels that this is an unfair practice by AT&T or cellular providers as a whole, then DO NOT ENTER INTO A CONTRACT with them. Refuse to buy an iPhone until they reveal the details you wish to see in your contract. Send letters to them stating this. Stand outside the stores with a sign warning others. Will this work? Who knows, but it sounds like a path to change, or at least more effective then buying their product, agreeing to their terms, paying them as agreed to and then saying "by the way, this is totally unfair..."

Why can't we do this after we discover how unfair the contract is? What's your beef? Life is unfair so we should capitulate like you did with your last 6 cell phone contracts?

(And isn't that also the solution for unwanted teen pregnancy too - don't have teen sex? How's that working out in the "real world"?)
post #350 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhayes View Post

Why is it WHINING if someone voices the opinion that they are being treated UNFAIRLY?

That's my beef.

It's the same language used by some in politics who say the people we tortured where WHINERS becuase wanted the torture to stop. Or that women were WHINERS when asking for the vote.
Or that freed slaves in the south WHINED about the literacy test and poll taxes.

Now - a smart phone is NOWHERE is important as those other issues - but it does seem to be a pathology used by people to defend the status quo against change. Change that will sometimes make a system more fair.

Just state your willingness to keep the unfair status quo system in place we'll accept that - or log off this thread and enjoy the WHINERS who WHINE about no firewire ports, or that the 30" displays are due for a refresh in other threads

The question really is whether you ARE being treated unfairly, or whether you just want something that you can't have.

Just because you can't get what you want doesn't mean that you're being treated unfairly.

Did you read the entire contract before signing up?

No? Well then who's being unfair? Possibly you are.

Companies are in business to make money. They work out what they have to do in order to accomplish that.

I keep telling people to find these things out before they do anything.
post #351 of 430
The only reason that people are "whining" about it is because they got to upgrade early last time and they are not going to be able to do so this time. Thats it. There are the select few of you (you included) that are actually stating they want change to occurr with the contracts and standards of conduct. That is different. But the majority of people out there that are doing all the bitching, dont give a fuck about the contracts, rules, guidelines, upgrade policies, etc. They just want their damn new iPhone for the cheaper price. Those are the people I am upset with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhayes View Post

Why is it WHINING if someone voices the opinion that they are being treated UNFAIRLY?

That's my beef.

It's the same language used by some in politics who say the people we tortured where WHINERS becuase wanted the torture to stop. Or that women were WHINERS when asking for the vote.
Or that freed slaves in the south WHINED about the literacy test and poll taxes.

Now - a smart phone is NOWHERE is important as those other issues - but it does seem to be a pathology used by people to defend the status quo against change. Change that will sometimes make a system more fair.

Just state your willingness to keep the unfair status quo system in place we'll accept that - or log off this thread and enjoy the WHINERS who WHINE about no firewire ports, or that the 30" displays are due for a refresh in other threads
post #352 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhayes View Post

Why Not?? It doesn't mean the "bitching" or - as some WHINERS would call it - asking to re-negotiate with a company is bad in itself? They could jsut say "NO" couldn't they? And legally they'd just continue to collect form the contract.

You can always ask them. If they say no this is what you agreed to, then you've got nothing more to argue.

Quote:
Why can't we do this after we discover how unfair the contract is? What's your beef? Life is unfair so we should capitulate like you did with your last 6 cell phone contracts?

I already answered this, but I'll do it again, as you keep repeating it in several posts.

Just because you aren't happy with something doesn't mean it's unfair.
post #353 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The question really is whether you ARE being treated unfairly, or whether you just want something that you can't have.

Just because you can't get what you want doesn't mean that you're being treated unfairly.

Did you read the entire contract before signing up?

No? Well then who's being unfair? Possibly you are.

Companies are in business to make money. They work out what they have to do in order to accomplish that.

I keep telling people to find these things out before they do anything.


We seem to have an fairly large consensus on this thread, from all sides , that the cell phone industries practices are unfair.

And because a company is making money with an unfair, BUT LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT, why should we not voice our displeasure? Companies are in business to make money - and they can make a lot more money with unfair contracts -ala the company store, or payday loans.

"Don't sign. Don't complain. Unfairness is only caused by complaining.If I complain then it's my fault. Take a look in the mirror before you try to change the world. I would have told you this if I was your friend."

Did I sumamrize your points for you?
post #354 of 430
Go ahead. Call AT&T right now and ask to re-negotiate your contract. Please, I will wait up to find out what they said. I have already stated what my beef is. According to 90% of the forums and blogs I have read the past 48 hours, its only the iPhone 3G users that are getting the shaft, thats my beef. Poor guys, can't upgrade every 11 months, how unfair.

I just know that Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, Alltel, etc... all have the same **** upgrade policies. Now you can have your wet dream that you will be able to renegotiate your contract. Or, you can just face reality and that is pay the full price for the fucking phone and do what you please or sign the unfair contract and get a discount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhayes View Post

Why Not?? It doesn't mean the "bitching" or - as some WHINERS would call it - asking to re-negotiate with a company is bad in itself? They could jsut say "NO" couldn't they? And legally they'd just continue to collect form the contract.



Why can't we do this after we discover how unfair the contract is? What's your beef? Life is unfair so we should capitulate like you did with your last 6 cell phone contracts?

(And isn't that also the solution for unwanted teen pregnancy too - don't have teen sex? How's that working out in the "real world"?)

EDIT: language
post #355 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You can always ask them. If they say no this is what you agreed to, then you've got nothing more to argue.



I already answered this, but I'll do it again, as you keep repeating it in several posts.

Just because you aren't happy with something doesn't mean it's unfair.

And just because you repeat it doesn't mean it's true. We disagree on this point.
post #356 of 430
OK, Payday loans. Perfect example! Or, at least much better than torture and teen pregnancy...

What logical person in their right mind would sign a contract on a PayDay loan with an estimated 120% APR, then AFTER signing start bitching and say this is unfair. Seriously? You are going to take out the loan, THEN say you guys suck???

If you want to change the PayDay loan industry and require them to, lets say disclose their APR in plain wording and require them to lower the rate that they charge, you do so by fighting their practices and not funding their continued corruption/standard practices!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhayes View Post

We seem to have an fairly large consensus on this thread, from all sides , that the cell phone industries practices are unfair.

And because a company is making money with an unfair, BUT LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT, why should we not voice our displeasure? Companies are in business to make money - and they can make a lot more money with unfair contracts -ala the company store, or payday loans.

"Don't sign. Don't complain. Unfairness is only caused by complaining.If I complain then it's my fault. Take a look in the mirror before you try to change the world. I would have told you this if I was your friend."

Did I sumamrize your points for you?
post #357 of 430
Oh, and what might be a fairer system for AT&T?

1)Let iphone users update every year. <-Probably not going to happen with AT&T.

2)Add the cost of the Early Termination Fee (ETF) (,which congress mandated be a prorated against the carrier's vocal protest,) to end the current contract and then give the subsidized price while having to sign a new contract. <- This would average $125 for the upgrade to current iPhone 3g users who got it on launch day.

I think option 2 would be reasonable for AT&T, and not be unfair to current subscribers. But the extra $75 dollars between the upgrade price and the ETF fee seems like pure profit for AT&T - whcih companies like - and consumers don't.
post #358 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by DustinLH00 View Post

OK, Payday loans. Perfect example! Or, at least much better than torture and teen pregnancy...

What logical person in their right mind would sign a contract on a PayDay loan with an estimated 120% APR, then AFTER signing start bitching and say this is unfair. Seriously? You are going to take out the loan, THEN say you guys suck???

If you want to change the PayDay loan industry and require them to, lets say disclose their APR in plain wording and require them to lower the rate that they charge, you do so by fighting their practices and not funding their continued corruption/standard practices!

If you think PayDay loans are a-ok then we shall *never* agree on this issue. Let's agree to disagree and be done with it.
post #359 of 430
GUYS

Watch the language or I'm going to start deleting postsfor a start.
post #360 of 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhayes View Post

And just because you repeat it doesn't mean it's true. We disagree on this point.

It's not a point you can disagree on. It's a fact. People want many things they can't have. It doesn't make it unfair.

You can argue on exactly why you think THIS situation is unfair.

But you need to give specific points, and show why what you say shows how they're being unfair. A generalized complaint doesn't say anything.

You're not happy because you can't upgrade now and get the full discount? Or in a month? Or three months, etc?

Exactly WHY is that unfair?

It's not unfair just because you say it is.
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