iPhone 3G users to pay $200 premium for early upgrade to iPhone 3G S - Page 11

Well, we obviously disagree regarding the roots of this particular outcry, but as far as a campaign for legislation or antitrust litigation to change the way the wireless industry operates, I don't think it much matters what its origin is. There's a lot of noise about it right now, and a lot of attention being paid to it, and that, in my opinion is a good thing. Successful and needed reform often arises from unexpected circumstances.

Unlearned noise --- AT&T has provided the second cheapest iphone plan in the G7 countries (only UK is cheaper), has provided the third fastest 3G iphone speed in the world according to the wired.com survey, and has provided the largest regular iphone data allowance in the world (not counting the special time limited 6 GB iphone plan in Canada).

AT&T can't overcharge --- simply because there is a much better run Verizon corporate machine.

Just look at the million different combinations of simlocking laws in Europe --- NONE of them work against the iphone. Apple just priced the iphone very high and a token number of people buys these iphones completely unlocked. Meanwhile, look at their iphone plans --- all very expensive, all have very little data allowance and all talked very few minutes. So, all their consumer protection laws --- hurt the millions of regular mobile phone users and help the thousands of people who can afford a completely unlocked iphone.

I rather hurt the small percentage of gadget geeks and have 300 million Americans able to talk 700-800 minutes on the cell phone per month. Europeans talk about 200 minutes a month.

Who said anything about making our laws match European laws? If they've made mistakes, we can learn from those and not repeat them. And, the last I heard, Verizon doesn't have the iPhone, or anything like it.

I'd rather not allow the wireless industry to shove terms and phones down consumers throats, as they have done for years. No reason that gadget geeks have to be pitted against the other 300 million Americans to achieve this.

What are proposing? How would resolve this issue?

Not just European laws --- all across the 70+ countries where the iphone is being sold, all kinds of laws have proven to be ineffective.

The best iphone deal in the whole world --- Hong Kong, where there isn't much simlocking laws, where they just switched to the US system of "zero mobile termination rate" (i.e. charging calls both ways)... Hutchison 3 HK has the iphone exclusive deal --- yet they offer the iphone completely unlocked (and there is no Hong Kong law requiring them to do so), the completely unlocked iphone is price the cheapest in the world, the price plans are very cheap.

The only reason why Hong Kong gets the best iphone deal in the world --- that little city of 7-8 million people has 6 carriers. If there is enough competiton --- you don't need useless simlocking laws or laws against exclusive deals (like France).

Well, very generally, I think there should be a guaranty of consumer choice (contract or no contract, as well as what is being contracted for, along with all that implies in terms of subsidies and other deals) and an end to exclusive deals between wireless carriers and phone manufacturers -- steps that would foster actual competition in the market and allow phone portability, just as we now have number portability -- and wireless networks should be treated the same as other networks and network neutrality should be guaranteed. If there were real competition in the wireless market, it would benefit us all. But, as long as there are exclusive deals and carriers are allowed to set the terms of those deals as they see fit, we're all going to be paying more than we should have to, and have less freedom in what we can do for what we pay.

Regulators worldwide in 70+ countries (where the iphone is sold) have already tried basically every combination of what you stated --- none of them actually work.

AT&T do offer no commitment pricing for the iphone.

AT&T offers the second cheapest iphone plan in the G7 countries, offers the largest monthly data allowance in the world and offers the third fastest 3G iphone performance in the world --- somehow you think that the US government must have done something terrible wrong with their regulations.

No one in the wireless industry has every shoved terms down my throat when I entered into a contract with them.

If I don't like their terms, I am free to not do business with them.

Really!? So, they let you pick exactly the number of minutes as you wanted. You weren't forced to pay for a data plan for an iPhone? You were allowed to buy an iPhone without an AT&T contract, or a Pre without a Sprint contract, and use it on whatever network you wanted to?

No, I didn't think so. You have a choice of either agreeing to AT&T's non-negotiable terms, or not getting an iPhone. That's not really true choice. And you have never had a real choice of terms on any wireless contract you have ever signed; it's take it or leave it. That's having terms shoved down your throat, whether you like to admit that or not.

Sorry, but pay up or do without is not real choice, especially when the choice is offered to you by a de facto monopoly.

First, I don't see anything in my post about AT&T or the iPhone.

Secondly, you would propose that customers could make any plan with a cell carrier they want? How would the cell carrier do business with every customer making their own plan.

Why would anyone want an iPhone without a data plan? Using data is half the purpose of the device.

Sorry you are so anti AT&T and feel it's a monopoly. Perhaps you should contact your congresspersons and ask them to look into this.

It is the ONLY choice that matters.

All the other supposed choices cure only the symptoms. The ability to walk away cures the actual disease.

Most of the options you mention are available if one is willing to pay full price for the phone with no subsidy and no contract. Most people don't want to pay full price for the phone, so you go with the carriers contract terms.

Explain, then, how it is that AT&T customers who switched in anticipation of getting a 3g-S iPhone are also subject to this "subsidy" theory?

I have to pay nearly full price for an iPhone because AT&T couldn't just send me a SIM card and had to send me their CHEAPEST phone to get me switched over. So now THAT CRAPPY free phone is costing me $300 just because I want to upgrade to the iPhone before my 1 year contract is up???? And even if my 1 year contract was up, it would STILL cost me $200 more than "new" customers???

I'm seriously tempted to go back to T-Mobile who never once screwed me over in the 5 years I was with them, whereas AT&T has done nothing but make the switching carrier experience a disappointing, costly nightmare.

It's not just iPhone users that AT&T AND Apple are screwing over....

I think it was not wise of you to make the switch BEFORE the iPhone 3GS went on sale. What benefit did you gain by switching "in anticipation of" instead of switching when the 3GS became a reality you could have been a "new customer" buying for only $299?

I think you have yourself to blame for not patiently waiting for the iPhone 3GS to arrive before making the switch next Friday instead of recently. What were you thinking you would gain by not waiting to make the switch next Friday?

Oh Jesus ... you have to be kidding, right? Have you EVER owned a mobile phone before?

First of all, subsidy isn't a theory ... it's a business practice employed by well, every wireless company in the world to have you play less for the hardware so you end up committed to a certain contract length and therefore are a constant revenue stream for them for the life of your contract. This is why you pay $175 or whatever it is to break the contract if you want to leave early. So the carrier can recoup part of their loss on the handset itself. So if you really do want to go back to T-Mobile, you're in the hole to AT&T for $175 just to leave. Guess what, you would have had to pay t-Mobile too if you were still under contract to quit so you could move to AT&T.

Also, why would anyone switch "in anticipation" of something? Why didn't you just wait until the thing came out, and then switch over? I can't find a logical reason why people would go to AT&T right now, so they could get the iPhone later this month. You got the free phone on a subsidy, so you're going to have to wait 18 months (since you're a brand new AT&T customer) before you can upgrade without paying the extra $200 bucks. Why? So AT&T can recoup some of their subsidy from you before the subsidize an iPhone 3GS for you. Had you been an AT&T customer for a few more years or spent a certain amount of money on you account (via data plans, more expensive voice plans, etc.) then you'd b eligible to upgrade every 12 months. No one is quite sure about the algorithm they use, and no, it's not totally fair they do it this way, but trust me, this too is part of your contract.

I also don't understand the point of just having a SIM? If you were going to just want a SIM, again, you should have just waited for the phone to come out, and then switch. Sorry buddy, you dug your own grave here. You have some options though:
1) Terminate the AT&T contract and go back to T-Mobile
2) Terminate the AT&T contract, wait 60 days, sign back up with AT&T and get the discounted pricing (of course, this costs you almost as much as just upgrading at the premium, and you lose your number, soooo this is a dumb idea...)
3) Wait 18 months from when you switched and buy the iPhone 3GS at the discounted upgrade price
4) Add a line for $9.99 + tax per month, activate the iPhone 3GS on it, and just pay to have two phones on it until the contract on the first phone is up, and then roll it back to a single line plan (I haven't heard of actually being able to do this though, you'd have to contact AT&T
5) Next time read your contract and understand a little more about what you can and can't do and know that AT&T isn't the only company out there that doesn't allow you to upgrade your phone every month at their expense...

Last year there were posters on his forum complaining that AT&T and Apple screwed them over when they switched in anticipation of the iPhone. It’s amazing!

I did not notice this option. Currently it will cost me $499 to migrate my 3G iphone purchased last July on opening day to a new 3GS. But if I follow your advice, I only need to payout another $130 + tax - slowly over the next 13 months of my 3G contract to add a second phone to a family plan. So in this case 2 phones are cheaper than 1.

I just ran this idea through the AT&T site and indeed the new 3GS phone will only cost me $299 this way. I'll confirm on the phone with AT&T after 9am today and change my preorder with Apple to do it this way. Thank you so much for letting us know about this option.

I just ran the same scenario at the Apple.com site and you are correct sir. It's only going to cost me $299 to ADD the 3GS to my account. Then by converting it to a family plan it's only an extra $9.99 a month for the second and better phone. Wow! I am so excited to have discovered this "loophole" way to save $200 now and to be able to have 2 phones instead of 1 for less money than if I were to move my current line to a new one. Reservation made.
With AT&T Rep:
1. Add New 3GS iPhone as 2nd phone new contract new number at Apple Store or AT&T Store.
2. Go to AT&T Store or call AT&T Customer Service to swap IMEI Numbers between the 2 phones. That is to move your existing mobile number to the new 3GS phone from the old 3G phone and move the new number from the new 3GS to the old 3G phone.
3. To avoid paying data plan on 2 lines you can get a low end phone with no data plan and put the new number on it and then you pay only $9.99 a month. $26 Activation Fee can get waived by customer service on the phone.
4. Bring your own phone. You MUST find a CHEAP AT&T/Cingular phone to do this without having to pay a lot for the unlocked GSM phone. Subsidy Unlock Code needed to unlock existing phones out of contract if they are non-AT&T but GSM like T-Mobile.

Scored a Sony Ericson T610 GSM phone out of contract for $10 on Craig's List

I ran this scenario thru AT&T online as well. I could also add the 3GS to a family line but I also had to add on another $30 data plan to the new line as well.

True, but you get the dataplan with every iPhone. Since the point is to get the iPhone, the additional cost will only be $10/month and I think youlll get 700 minutes instead of 450 minutes a month with that plan.

Remember, Captain Impetuous says: Leap first, then look where you've leapt.

With AT&T Rep:
1. Add New 3GS iPhone as 2nd phone new contract new number at Apple Store or AT&T Store.
2. Go to AT&T Store or call AT&T Customer Service to swap IMEI Numbers between the 2 phones. That is to move your existing mobile number to the new 3GS phone from the old 3G phone and move the new number from the new 3GS to the old 3G phone.
3. To avoid paying data plan on 2 lines you can get a low end phone with no data plan and put the new number on it and then you pay only $9.99 a month. $26 Activation Fee can get waived by customer service on the phone. This is when they turn off your old 3G iPhone and it becomes an iPod Touch.
4. Bring your own phone. You MUST find a CHEAP AT&T/Cingular phone to do this without having to pay a lot for the unlocked GSM phone. Subsidy Unlock Code needed to unlock existing phones out of contract if they are non-AT&T but GSM like T-Mobile.

Scored a Sony Ericson T610 GSM phone out of contract for $10 on Craig's List

Sell my 16GB 3G iPhone and pay off my contract while I get a new contract for the 3GS? How much is it worth out of contract? I tried $325 and got 6 inquiries so now I raised it to $449

Same here when I preordered at the apple store. Why is my date 12/22 and not the date in july that i ordered last year ... hmmm? I paid the 200 upgrade fee cause I just suck like that.

so how's this for random?

My wife and I are on a family plan and we have been ever since May of 2008. We switched over for the 3G. I got mine on day 1 and she got hers on August 15th. When I check my number's availability for an upgrade it says I have to wait until 3/10/2010. That seems like one of the dates that a lot of people have been getting. But, when I check on my wife's number she's able to get one on the 15th of this year.

Makes absolutely no sense.

On the 15th of this year? What month?

Whoops! - 8/15/09

The random part about it is that we are on the same bill and have made the same payments so it doesn't have to do with missing any payments (which didn't happen) and I got my 3G before her.

I guess the only thing that they might have considered is that she was on AT&T I think for a couple of weeks longer than I - but than that is just even more ridiculous that they would drop seven months because of a couple of weeks service loyalty.

Sounds like you might have a reasonable argument to make to customer service. I'm sure they're getting a ton of calls and for the most part are just repeating the terms of the service contract, but your situation is odd enough that you might be able to get somebody to go off script and cut you some slack.

I finally had a moment of clarity last night:

It only costs $120 to early kill the old account - $175-$55 ($5 a month credit) = $120 - right after you swap your phone numbers after your NEW purchase at an Apple Store Friday and you will be able to easily sell your 3G for $300-$400 depending on the size and color - white is more valuable - on Craig's List. So redo your reservation as a NEW Account to save $80. Even if you keep your 3G it only cost you $120 instead of $200.

A new 16GB 3GS out of contract costs $599 so a 16GB 3G @ $399 is a very fair price (as long as it's not dinged or scratched) and that price should be obtainable for a while since all new 16GB 3G iPhones will disappear soon. So don't even worry about how long it will take to sell on Craig's List for FREE.

Since you mentioned she had been on AT&T before you were, I would bet her number is the primary account (device) of your family plan.

That makes total sense that she is eligible in 12 months versus the 18 months because of the family plan with two iPhones generates less revenue compared to two iPhones each on individual plans.

Individual plans >~$100 can upgrade in 12 months , >~$70/mo become eligible in 18 months or so.

Assuming your monthly bill is around 160-180, you essentially have one phone with 1 year eligibility if allocate 100 of fee, and the other phone with 70 fee.

Upgrade eligibility date is almost solely based on the amount of the monthly payment -- with respect to the amount of subsidy received. The higher the monthly payment, the quicker the subsidy is recaptured which will push the eligibility date up.

From what Ive read, if you cancel your account you cant sign up again with that carrier using the canceled SSN for 60 days. What you can do it make it a family plan by adding an account for the $10 for voice and $30 for data, and then cancel your other phone. But I dont think they will let will let you swap numbers that way and the price is reaching $180 if they dont let prorate the account before you cancel the other one.