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Apple's new MacBook Pros can boot from media in SD card slot - Page 2

post #41 of 86
I'm going to start calling SD cards 24mm Floppy Disks just to irritate Apple.
post #42 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilo View Post

Not if you have a firmware password enabled. That will prevent the computer from going into firewire target disk mode at all. That is a moot point, though. If the attacker has physical access to your system, there are ways for them to get to your data even if you have welded all of the ports closed (firewire, USB, ethernet, CD drive, etc.) You have to use File Vault or whole disk encryption to stop a physical attack.


Exactly, there are even ways around a firmware password (don't ask)

Or ripping the drive out of the machine and physically taking the platters out and reading them that way.

If the data on the drive is not in some form of the latest unbreakable encryption with a huge 30+ character password, it can be read.

Also dealing with Uncle Sam, with vast computers, manpower, money and secret deals/backdoors with industry that may leave them with a access code to the highest encryption standards.

Even if my tin-foil hat is a bit tight, there are also DNA computers of such huge calculation ability, which can calculate all the answers against your encrypted data based upon 100+ character password combinations of all a keys on a keyboard.

With a DNA computer, they can get all the answers, but it takes a considerable time finding the answers in that huge haystack. So back to a bank of supercomputers to sort though the answers.

Oh, I don't think any data is safe if Uncle Sam puts his mind to getting it.

Best data security is encrypted and portable, easily destroyed, like a SD card for instance. Provided Uncle Sam didn't trick you to visit a web site that installed a root kit, or snuck into your house and installed it that way or left a disk laying around for you to insert.

Ok, end tin foil hat mode.
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post #43 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Personally, I hate the spring loaded slots as they never work right and tend to lead you to leaving the card in the device, but I would bet that the main reason they left such a mechanism out is that they are telling you (wordlessly) that the card is a temporary storage port and not a spare removable HD.

I can understand why there might be an occasional problem, I can't say I remember ever having a problem with spring loaded slot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Funny how our individual experiences mold our preferences.

I once had a HP work laptop and I popped my card in and it fit flush. Great ...downloaded my photos and all that and then "out of sight..out of mind" I forgot about it. Days later I'm grabbing my camera and I wonder where a bunch of my pics are. "Oh shit!" I left it in the laptop.

To me a card sticking out slighly is in fact a reminder that it's there and I like it.

It doesn't need to stick out half that far to serve that purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

Exactly! about time too! And while we're at it, let's have one format already!

One format what? Card format? Video file format?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchelljd View Post

maybe, but you could always turn the expresscard slot or USB into SD accessable.

I don't know if it's changed, but when I bought my EC multicard reader, none of them allowed the notebook to sleep when it's in the slot. So I have to leave it out if I want battery life. I don't know if anyone is at fault for that, but the practical upshot is that it wasn't as useful as it could have been.

Quote:
You can only turn an SD slot into very few things. it makes the laptop very very limited on what you can add to it.

But I can say that I use SD far more often than I use Express Card. Even though one of my camcorders uses Express Card as its physical media format, I still use SD far, far more. And apparently most people never use the EC slot if Apple's research is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

And what about people with professional cameras that use Compact Flash cards?

That's kind of unfortunate, but my gut feeling is that SD is probably a far more commonly used card format.
post #44 of 86
Awesome to see Apple adopt this format in such an broad manner.
post #45 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Cuilla View Post

One step would be to deliver OS X on an SD card (this will require all Macs to have the slot of course). But Apple could offer both retail packages options. That seems very un-Apple though.

They wouldnt have to do that right away. When SL comes out they could just start selling all new Mac notebooks with the SD card restore disc. The problem is Mac desktops and the MacBook Air, if these dont get the SD card port then I dont see this an option. There is nothing from keeping Apple from using USB flash drives here, which every Mac already has and is going nowhere anytime soon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Keep in mind if you have two Firewire enabled Macs now you can use one to access the other overriding any passwords. Firewire treats one drive as a master drive, and the other as a slave. The user level of the master drive dictates what you can access on the slave drive. So if you sign in on the master drive as an administrative user you will not be able to access a password protected user account on a slave drive. However, if you sign in as a root user on the master drive, you can easily by-pass any user passwords on the slave drive. I do it all the time.

You can do this with an external USB drive, too. Just hold down the Option key and choose the partition to boot from.
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post #46 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

They wouldnt have to do that right away. When SL comes out they could just start selling all new Mac notebooks with the SD card restore disc. The problem is Mac desktops and the MacBook Air, if these dont get the SD card port then I dont see this an option. There is nothing from keeping Apple from using USB flash drives here, which every Mac already has and is going nowhere anytime soon.




You can do this with an external USB drive, too. Just hold down the Option key and choose the partition to boot from.


Seems that a SD card left in the slot could be a very useful Time Machine backup drive for files that are not huge. Email/text/data files could be easily stored on a SD card. Sure, it would not fit all your video/audio projects, but for the day to day small files that we use, it could be the ticket.
post #47 of 86
Can we please already drop CDs. Its been 20 years. Its time to switch to new media storage.
Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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post #48 of 86
I wish I had this a few weeks ago. My fucking camera irreversibly destroyed 100 of my holiday photos when i was in the process of transferring them using the supplied cable.
post #49 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

Can we please already drop CDs. Its been 20 years. Its time to switch to new media storage.

Agreed. SD please. All my stuff works with SD.
post #50 of 86
I really hope the issues with Apple unable to support SDXC brings the media and world to attention.
I do not know why and how an common platform storage like SD Card can choose a Proprietary File System the exFAT.

There are only two kind of people in this world.

Those who dont understand Apple and those who misunderstood Apple.

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There are only two kind of people in this world.

Those who dont understand Apple and those who misunderstood Apple.

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post #51 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I'm pretty sure this is the exact purpose that Apple *doesn't* want you to use the slot for. It's that kind of gimmickry that is really out of place in the Mac World and one of the main reasons they don't generally like to put card readers on their devices.

Personally, I hate the spring loaded slots as they never work right and tend to lead you to leaving the card in the device, but I would bet that the main reason they left such a mechanism out is that they are telling you (wordlessly) that the card is a temporary storage port and not a spare removable HD.

Could you provide a reason, either technical or business, that Apple would care? Or would feel compelled to "wordless" tell me not to use the SD card slot for something other than transferring files between devices?

Letting it be a boot device, and having a support article specifically outlining how to format an SD card to be a boot device, certainly doesn't support your theory. I've used CF cards in a PC Card adaptor at a Time Machine backup drive on my old PB so that I'd have an automatic backup of my documents that I was working on while traveling. Works great.

I'm not saying there weren't reasons Apple didn't make it a flush slot (ie, space constraints), but I highly doubt it was for the reason you suggest.

BTW: Does anyone know if the 15" MBP's SD slot also leaves the card sticking out? There would certainly be enough space for a flush, spring-loaded slot. And considering the space they freed up by removing the ExpressCard slot, they could have at least added another USB or FW port.
post #52 of 86
Quote:
BTW: Does anyone know if the 15" MBP's SD slot also leaves the card sticking out? There would certainly be enough space for a flush, spring-loaded slot. And considering the space they freed up by removing the ExpressCard slot, they could have at least added another USB or FW port.

Yeah I wondered that to...
post #53 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

.......but I would bet that the main reason they left such a mechanism out is that they are telling you (wordlessly) that the card is a temporary storage port and not a spare removable HD.

Perfectly stated! This is what I see as Apples game plan.


Dave
post #54 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

Can we please already drop CDs. Its been 20 years. Its time to switch to new media storage.

It was bad enough when album covers disappeared - some real art and writing was lost. CDs at least preserved some semblance of both (which is the only reason I continue to buy them).

Soon, it will be, "Hey, Mr. Musician, can you please autograph my SD card?"
\
post #55 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Begone CD's and DVD's!

Can't wait for the day to come. Ancient media, those are.

And I really don't give a sweet damn that the SD card doesn't sit flush. It isn't like you're going to leave it in there like some expanded storage module on a netbook or a camera. It's not an external HD. Slip it in, copy or move around files, then take it out.
post #56 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

BTW: Does anyone know if the 15" MBP's SD slot also leaves the card sticking out? There would certainly be enough space for a flush, spring-loaded slot. And considering the space they freed up by removing the ExpressCard slot, they could have at least added another USB or FW port.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strange Lulz View Post

Yeah I wondered that to...

We can't be sure until we see the teardiwns of the 15" and 17" MBPs, but it's possible that there was less room to work with after The line-in jack was removed from the 13" MBP. Though looking at the 13" MBP and previous MBP teardowns it looks like it would have been tough just to get it in that far.

PS: To those who think Jobs didn't know about this change or had no say on it, be assured that the CEO who only took a leave of absence 5 months ago knew exactly what was coming.
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post #57 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

I really hope the issues with Apple unable to support SDXC brings the media and world to attention.
I do not know why and how an common platform storage like SD Card can choose a Proprietary File System the exFAT.

One can format a SD-SDHC card to GUID and install OS X on it. The new MBPs don't support SDXC yet in hardware/software.
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post #58 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post



But I can say that I use SD far more often than I use Express Card. Even though one of my camcorders uses Express Card as its physical media format, I still use SD far, far more. And apparently most people never use the EC slot if Apple's research is correct.

well, i can tell you that I do use my expresscard and i would miss it!!!! i use it for my internet when travelling, on a Verizon card.
post #59 of 86
Couple points.

1. I've taken SD cards out of spring loaded slots tens of thousands of times on laptops, camera's, cell phones and have never once, not a single instance had a problem with one, ever.

2. The card does not stick out 1/2 way. It sticks out exactly 1.1 centimeter. A standard SD card is 4 cm long.

3. I can confirm that I was able to set up time machine effortlessly with my 32gb Patriot SD card on my new 13" Macbook Pro. Tomorrow I am installing a 128GB Corsair SSD and 4gb Ram as soon as UPS drops them off, and I will do some speed tests for booting from Harddrive, SSD, and SD card.
post #60 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Can't wait for the day to come. Ancient media, those are.

...It isn't like you're going to leave it (SD) in there like some expanded storage module on a netbook or a camera. It's not an external HD...

The good thing about cd/dvds is once it's burned, it stays that way. SD, USB etc data can get corrupted or pwned as it can be changed. But yes, disk storage days are numbered.

Having the ability to leave a large capacity SD card inside a laptop for a auto file backup/Time Machine or in the case when a 2TB capacity SDXC rolls out for Macs, a auto-cloned boot drive, would be a good thing.

SD cards hanging half out isn't a good thing, they are small and easily forgotten, laptop shoved into a carrying bag etc. A flush mounted spring release would have been better IMMO.
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post #61 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dueces View Post

Couple points.

1. I've taken SD cards out of spring loaded slots tens of thousands of times on laptops, camera's, cell phones and have never once, not a single instance had a problem with one, ever.

2. The card does not stick out 1/2 way. It sticks out exactly 1.1 centimeter. A standard SD card is 4 cm long.

3. I can confirm that I was able to set up time machine effortlessly with my 32gb Patriot SD card on my new 13" Macbook Pro. Tomorrow I am installing a 128GB Corsair SSD and 4gb Ram as soon as UPS drops them off, and I will do some speed tests for booting from Harddrive, SSD, and SD card.

Cool!

I'm going to guess here, your boot time for the Patriot 32GB SDHC will be apx 3x slower than your hard drive.

SDHC supposely has a 20 MB/s read/write.
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post #62 of 86
no-one seems to have mentioned it, but the highlight of this update to me is Apple moving the mini-displayport to the LHS side of the USB ports.

anyone who actually owns one of the unibodies (as i do) will be able to attest that the old positioning looked nice & Apple-y (ie ports decrease in size from left to right) however was functionally stupid.

the things that you tend to have plugged in all the time that you are at your desk are of course the power cord, ehternet (for those not wireless) and monitor cable if using an external monitor (as i do all day).

usb devices on the other hand tend to get plugged in and out throughout the course of the day (eg sync iphone, plug in camera etc)

the old layout meant that the monitor cable was always obstructing access to the USB slots - sounds small, but an annoying issue to deal with EVERY time you need to plug in a usb device. i'm amazed it wasn't picked up earlier, but good to see them making amends...
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post #63 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by ameldrum1 View Post

no-one seems to have mentioned it, but the highlight of this update to me is Apple moving the mini-displayport to the LHS side of the USB ports.

Nice observation and welcome to the forums. I noticed it had moved but think twice about the implications. Since I can't recall ever using an external monitor on a notebook and figure that utilizing only the built-in display is by and large the norm I can see how it can be overlooked.

Going from a ploycarb MB to the first unibody MB I did notice that thy moved, at least, the USB ports ever so slightly together. I hope they were able to allow more spacing this time as I had to buy a 12" USB cable extender to get my 3G to work while my iPhone cae was plugged in, where it had fit before. Once we get rid of the optical drive I hope Apple goes crazy with port options, but I'm not holding my breath.
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post #64 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

Yeah, but who doesn't walk around with a USB memory stick in their pocket these days? I just bought a new 16GB one for $30 at Radio Shack. 400Mbps transfer on USB which beats out the SD-card slot, and they're given away like candy at many places.

Thats the data speed over USB 2.0

The fastest USB flash drives only get to around 30MB/s with most doing anywhere between 8 and 24MB/s.

An external HDD can get up to around 40MB/s on USB.
post #65 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

Can we please already drop CDs. Its been 20 years. Its time to switch to new media storage.

What? Changed to another format that has been around for 10 years?

Apple introduces a port that every other manufacturer has had for years and it is now revolutionary??
post #66 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

Can we please already drop CDs. Its been 20 years. Its time to switch to new media storage.

Snow Leopard shipped on SD?
post #67 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

What? Changed to another format that has been around for 10 years?

Apple introduces a port that every other manufacturer has had for years and it is now revolutionary??

True but booting Windows from an SD card, admittedly based on a quick scan of the internet, involves some use of clever 3rd party software, etc. not to mention a bunch of work by the user.

Is this whole SD card slot move by Apple their first step in paving the way for the rumored tablet/netbook/mobile internet device? That is certainly a potential class of products screaming for technologies that don't require an optical drive. Couple SSD's with SD and now you've opened up a new dimension in portable computing.
post #68 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

What? Changed to another format that has been around for 10 years?

Apple introduces a port that every other manufacturer has had for years and it is now revolutionary??

No, it's just more desirable now because it's in a Mac.
post #69 of 86
I am no computer engineering genius, but would there be some way to use an SD card as extra RAM for the MacBook?

It costs $1000 to fill up the new ones with 8GB of RAM, but only $40 for an 8GB SD card!

At the very least you could use this card as a scratch disk for Photoshop...

Just hoping!
post #70 of 86
...no.

The transfer rate is no where near high enough. Also RAM doesnt save data and is wiped when the power is off, SD cards... well they wouldnt be much good if they got wiped when taken out would they?
post #71 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by DimMok View Post

Interesting now given the fact most digital camera now can send the pictures directly to your laptop wirelessly..via wifi or blutooth....this seems like a step back plus having it stick out so much is really un-Apple like...appears as an after thought......

ER..... no. Actually most cameras are still wired or card based. GPS and wireless and other advances are coming and in some cameras, but considering the millions and millions and millions that are out there and still being sold, I think Apple hit a sweet spot.

PS. Apple is wireless also. Just a thought.
en
post #72 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtotes View Post

Snow Leopard shipped on SD?

That'll be the $29 version! If you want it on optical media, ya gotta pay the old $129 upgrade price...

(of course a cheap card reader would blow holes in that theory, but what a hoot it would be!)
post #73 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by zanshin View Post

That'll be the $29 version! If you want it on optical media, ya gotta pay the old $129 upgrade price...

(of course a cheap card reader would blow holes in that theory, but what a hoot it would be!)

But the costs are dimes for stamping a disc and tens of dollars for the solid state version. The only way there would be $100 for the older media is if they included the drive in the box too.

I think the OS installer a solid state chip would be worth the extra expense. In volume, Apple could probably make their requisite margins by charging $20-$30 extra for a solid state version.
post #74 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by briandhowell View Post

I am no computer engineering genius, but would there be some way to use an SD card as extra RAM for the MacBook?

It costs $1000 to fill up the new ones with 8GB of RAM, but only $40 for an 8GB SD card!

At the very least you could use this card as a scratch disk for Photoshop...

Just hoping!

RAM is expensive for a reason; it's orders of magnitude faster than SD storage on a USB bus.

And you will decrease performance if you use this card as scratch disk for Photoshop. Unless you have a drive attached to the SATA port. USB, firewire external hard drives also make very poor PS scratch disks. What I would be interested in is one of those new FusionIO PCI Express drives used as a scratch disk. That is the kind of speed that would improve performance.
post #75 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

One can format a SD-SDHC card to GUID and install OS X on it. The new MBPs don't support SDXC yet in hardware/software.

I am amazed to no end. I have read all the posts about SD and its capabilities. The fact that you hang around your neck a bootable 2TB drive is amazing. HOW Many photo's can you take in tiff before the SD CARD FILLS UP.

I will still burn cds and dvd's for friends and I will still burn dvd for my own archives .DVD back up storage is forever. I have burned so far about 35 full dvd DATA disc's 4.65 g each 2x. One sEt each for MY two sons. They contain every song, every movie, everythingI ever did on my 9 mac.s. All those old home movie footage left raw for them to have when i die. Also i have burned about 45 dvd home movie imovie discs and have about 80 more to go. The dvd data discs cost less than 4o cents each .

Yet the amazing storage in such a small space is fantastic sci fi kind of stuff. Imagine carrying around the library of congress in your pocket. SD type media storage will change our world very soon.

Tiny hand held devices that .....we have yet to dream them up yet..


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post #76 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dueces View Post

Couple points.

1. I've taken SD cards out of spring loaded slots tens of thousands of times on laptops, camera's, cell phones and have never once, not a single instance had a problem with one, ever.

2. The card does not stick out 1/2 way. It sticks out exactly 1.1 centimeter. A standard SD card is 4 cm long.

3. I can confirm that I was able to set up time machine effortlessly with my 32gb Patriot SD card on my new 13" Macbook Pro. Tomorrow I am installing a 128GB Corsair SSD and 4gb Ram as soon as UPS drops them off, and I will do some speed tests for booting from Harddrive, SSD, and SD card.

Is the 128gb SSD enough storage for you ?? SEEMS like you may be a tad short. No ?

And are SD card reliable after many uses?Are you sure ? If yes, who said it was reliable as your number one data back up ? Also I would never leave an SD card in for long peridots of time.

Let us know .
Thank you

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post #77 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by zanshin View Post

That'll be the $29 version! If you want it on optical media, ya gotta pay the old $129 upgrade price...

(of course a cheap card reader would blow holes in that theory, but what a hoot it would be!)

An $8 USB adapter solves the problem, if that were the case.
post #78 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by code4fun View Post

I'm sorry, but I was disappointed hearing Apple removed the expresscard. This is what sets it apart from the MacBooks. I have a 1st gen MacBook Pro where I use the expresscard when I'm at home to hook up eSATA drives. The SD is a nice feature, but I already have a cheap USB dongle solution for that. Booting from a SD card is a nice feature, but it isn't practical today as the I/O is slow. Yes, one could go with a 17" MBP, but we're talking about a $800 price difference. Not to mention the extra weight.

I agree 100% and I'm in the same situation, using esata to hook up HDD's. It's faster than using FW800 and if you're rendering HD video or compositing you can use both and really speed things up. It is kind of messy, but it works quite well. An SD card feels like a loss, sure it's convenient, but it's a lot less versatile, and a slower connection, even if they up it to SDXC.

I'm glad they added firewire back to the 13", and I hope Apple will reconsider express card as they did FireWire on the 13".

Edit: Why would you add notebooks to the proline and remove pro features from the 15"? Many pro photogs use CF cards, not SD. SD is fine and useful, but it's a consumer feature, so why call it pro if you're biased toward removing pro features for consumer ones? I know Apple says that few used the express cards, but I loved them!
post #79 of 86
Liunx, XP..... ?
post #80 of 86
It's as if some people are just now discovering SD cards.

It's cute.
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