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Microsoft reveals plans to ship Windows 7 without IE in Europe - Page 2

post #41 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The OEMs can even put IE on them. I’m sure MS will try to make IE the standard browser, or maybe even the only browser, since the OEMs can do it and I don’t see why MS can’t pay them (or reduce their Windows charge) to do so.

The issue comes with retail versions of the OS. If they can’t be sold with IE installed, perhaps MS can bundle a separate CD with the browser installer on it. Really, it’s just a pointless victory that seems to hurts the consumer more than it hurts MS. The EU already has a great deal of non-IE usage and I don’t see this move affecting anything. IE will probably continue to lose marketshare at the same rate it is now. As previously stated, making it confine to a minimum set of standards to be included would be better.

http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_v...-200904-200913). (graph)

Agered. Funny right below your post is an MS ad for iIE8. Funny or scary .

9

PS did you see above ,where i fixed that guys long post ,
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post #42 of 71
Great, now when the person gets their pc without IE, how are they going to go get firefox, safari, chrome or whatever browser they DO want? Typical beuracrats with their heads up their collective asses!
post #43 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericblr View Post

Great, now when the person gets their pc without IE, how are they going to go get firefox, safari, chrome or whatever browser they DO want? Typical beuracrats with their heads up their collective asses!

This result was not demanded by government, this was microsoft "getting out ahead" of the regulators. Clearly a calculated move, but not something that the Eu asked for I don't think.
post #44 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by columbus View Post

If you don't have a browser, how are most regular folk supposed to get another browser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by photobiker View Post

It's indeed the question I saw yesterday on several European web sites: "How can I download Firefox if I don't have IE?"

Gopher? Telnet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericblr View Post

Great, now when the person gets their pc without IE, how are they going to go get firefox, safari, chrome or whatever browser they DO want? Typical beuracrats with their heads up their collective asses!

I guess none of you people have heard of "The Internet"?????

(of which the web is just one tiny small part)
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post #45 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubert View Post

Maybe this guy is William Faulkner come back from the dead.

Or perhaps William Faulkner posting while still dead.
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post #46 of 71
Oh well.
post #47 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourgoises Pig View Post

With Chrome, I am concerned about privacy issues. Data mining, anyone?\

It would have been better to read an article that compares IE8 to Safari.............

I don't mind Google mining my data, I already trust them with my email.

Plus it is all pr0n, which they have plenty of

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post #48 of 71
Come on folks - wake up!


This isn't about what ships to the customer it's about what Microsoft sells to an OEM PC vendor.

Microsoft have already said they will create a way to allow OEM's install I.E before they ship the PC.

Basically MS is going to sell the OEM a copy of Windows 7 without a browser and a special software tool or disk mirroring process will turn that version into a standard fully integrated Windows 7 with I.E version before it ships to the customer.

MS have basically said 'whatever' to the EU and are dodging any form of regulation as they always have.

Besides, they are going to get broken up for tax fraud in the next 3 years to this is all moot.

For Windows to remain a monopoly it's going to have to resort to insanely criminal methods - it's exceedingly likely that they will.
post #49 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

99.9% of users could not care less what browser they use.

Funny then that much less than 99.99% of all users do use the browser that shipped with their OS. Put your figure closer to 80 or 90% and you could be right.
post #50 of 71
I'm really surprised how the governments, including the US and EU, have overestimated Microsoft's power and influence on the market and technology. Microsoft is a dead horse when it comes to innovation and its monopoly influence is very limited even on the desktop market. Was Microsoft able to stop iTunes even though most computers come with Windows Media Player by default and without iTunes installed? No. Was Microsoft able to stop Firefox from eating its market share even if 99% of the computers only come with IE? No. Was Microsoft able to stop people from using Google even if the default searcher is MSN/Windows Live on IE? No. So... why spend so much of our social resources on beating a dead horse?

Government should only put their hands on Microsoft when Microsoft successfully crushes any competition. For now, Microsoft is a lame duck and there is no need to bother it.
post #51 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by surferfromuk View Post

Come on folks - wake up!


This isn't about what ships to the customer it's about what Microsoft sells to an OEM PC vendor.

Microsoft have already said they will create a way to allow OEM's install I.E before they ship the PC.

Basically MS is going to sell the OEM a copy of Windows 7 without a browser and a special software tool or disk mirroring process will turn that version into a standard fully integrated Windows 7 with I.E version before it ships to the customer.

MS have basically said 'whatever' to the EU and are dodging any form of regulation as they always have.

Besides, they are going to get broken up for tax fraud in the next 3 years to this is all moot.

For Windows to remain a monopoly it's going to have to resort to insanely criminal methods - it's exceedingly likely that they will.

That said, in the meantime some OEMs just might use an alternative browser to IE when they ship and that in turn may make companies with web sites that only work with IE start to think again. Anything that helps to remove the non compliant web mess M$ created is good. I can but hope.
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post #52 of 71
IE can die for all I care. It should have died years ago. It seems a complete anomaly among the likes of current Gecko and Webkit browsers. It's a complete failure, and the way it is tightly integration into the OS has proved a security nightmare.
post #53 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

IE can die for all I care. It should have died years ago. It seems a complete anomaly among the likes of current Gecko and Webkit browsers. It's a complete failure, and the way it is tightly integration into the OS has proved a security nightmare.

With the increased popularity of Firefox, the continuous improvements in Safari and the introduction of Chrome, IE's death finally seems likely. I worry, though, that Chrome will be its replacement: everybody is raving about its speed. It is nice to hear about 6,000,000 Safari downloads by Windows users in 3 days but as most Mac owners are forced to run Windows in a VM for one reason or another, I wonder whether it's just us downloading twice.

Apart from being concerned about privacy and putting all our eggs in a new but single basket again (Gmail, search, maps, docs etc), I consider that Apple have much more experience in designing usable client software. I actually prefer how Safari looks and works - and it is definitely not slow. Am I alone in thinking that?
post #54 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypoluxa View Post

Why should this be on AI? No one here probably really cares what MS does with its browser.

So, you always stick your head in the sand?
post #55 of 71
All that will happen is that OEMs will just install the IE disc / image and everything will be identical to previous versions. Most users will not know any different, and those that do will use IE to download Firefox / Safari / Chrome. This is a win for Microsoft and a snub for the EU.

If you really want to hurt IE's market share, popular sites need to stop supporting it.
post #56 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I guess none of you people have heard of "The Internet"?????

(of which the web is just one tiny small part)

Hence most regular folk.

See most regular folk don't know about Gopher, Telnet, ssh etc.

For most regular folk the web is the internet (no doubt not helped by Microsoft's dreadfully named Internet Explorer, but whatever, that's a separate issue)
post #57 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by patroll View Post

With the increased popularity of Firefox, the continuous improvements in Safari and the introduction of Chrome, IE's death finally seems likely. I worry, though, that Chrome will be its replacement: everybody is raving about its speed. It is nice to hear about 6,000,000 Safari downloads by Windows users in 3 days but as most Mac owners are forced to run Windows in a VM for one reason or another, I wonder whether it's just us downloading twice.

Apart from being concerned about privacy and putting all our eggs in a new but single basket again (Gmail, search, maps, docs etc), I consider that Apple have much more experience in designing usable client software. I actually prefer how Safari looks and works - and it is definitely not slow. Am I alone in thinking that?

No, you're not alone in thnking that. Safari is very well done from a usability perspective, and uses Webkit, and is at least competitively fast. I see nothing wrong with it, really. Unlike a lot of other Mac browsers out there, Safari is native.

It does the job and does it well, with a few nice touches.
post #58 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

No, you're not alone in thnking that. Safari is very well done from a usability perspective, and uses Webkit, and is at least competitively fast. I see nothing wrong with it, really. Unlike a lot of other Mac browsers out there, Safari is native.

It does the job and does it well, with a few nice touches.

To add to that, IE’s imminent demise is great exaggerated. While I’m certain it won’t be long before FF overtakes IE’s marketshare, further forcing MS to make IE more standards compliant, there is no way at this point MS will stop making it or that it will go completely unused. For one, ActiveX is still popular and many businesses and government agencies still rely on IE-only tech for their websites. This will change, but while this changes IE will change, too, making the need to remove it less of an issue. But none of that matters as only worthy goal is get more standard compliant browsers, not to eradicate a product simply because we don’t like it.

PS: I just hope Mozilla gets Fennec (mobile Firefox) up and running soon. They are losing the mobile browser war by not even being in it. With phones getting ‘smarter’ and media phones being the fastest growing tech segment WebKit-based browsers have a strong chance of overtaking Gecko-based browsers on a per-unit install if Mozilla doesn’t get their shit together soon.
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post #59 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I guess none of you people have heard of "The Internet"?????

(of which the web is just one tiny small part)

What is the other part ???
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post #60 of 71
I never like safai that much,kinda slow .

BUT now its a speed demon. wow .
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post #61 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

I think stupid scenarios like this are only going to get more prevelant, and Apple will be targetted before long. We might see Apple forced to strip OSX right back... no iTunes, no Safari, no Mail etc etc.

It's not mere inclusion with an OS install that is the issue here. It is integration with the OS.

Don't want Safari? Install your browser of choice, grab the Safari icon, drag it to the trash, empty trash. It's gone forever. No other apps are affected.

Don't want IE on a Windows install? GOOD LUCK!
post #62 of 71
What I see in this story is that Windows 7 will work fine without Internet Explorer
and that we will probably see Windows PCs without Internet Explorer for sale.

Hope that finally convinces some people that not everyone will use IE when visiting their web site.

@ericblr: The EU did not ask Microsoft to ship their OS without a web browser, look at their answer.

Apple does not collect info about your browsing, though some features do send data to Google (fraudulent web sites, search)
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post #63 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

I'm stunned at the mind boggling stupidity of this... It's simply retarded. The fools who decided this should be lined up and shot. It's akin to shipping a PC without a mouse and keyboard...

Like the Mac Mini?
post #64 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I guess none of you people have heard of "The Internet"?????

(of which the web is just one tiny small part)

WHAT?!?!?!

You mean to say that Microsoft ships Windows with its own FTP client, thus forcing all users to use it instead of any of the competitors' offerings?

I demand that they strip it out of there right away!
post #65 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

This result was not demanded by government, this was microsoft "getting out ahead" of the regulators. Clearly a calculated move, but not something that the Eu asked for I don't think.

No the EU asked for it. They demanded Microsoft to stop using its monopoly to force their browser on people. What other option apart from not including it in windows could they do. Giving people a choice of browsers isn't really possible, as how do you decide who makes it onto the list? Any programmer could start making there own version of WebKit and demand it be a choice for the user.

I think one of two things can come from this:
1. Everything stays the same. Manufacturers will still just install IE as its free for them to do and whats the point dealing with other companies that make browsers if you don't have to.
2. The bigger manufacturers start charging the browser companies to have their browser included. Could lead to some big money. If firefox want to be a default browser and generate money from their search box, they could be willing to pay. Same way as google paid ISP's to be the default search engine on peoples home pages.
post #66 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

No the EU asked for it. They demanded Microsoft to stop using its monopoly to force their browser on people. What other option apart from not including it in windows could they do. Giving people a choice of browsers isn't really possible, as how do you decide who makes it onto the list? Any programmer could start making there own version of WebKit and demand it be a choice for the user.

Uh yeah, what an impossible question!

Oh I know! I pondered this question for a few hours and through deep meditation I came up with an answer. It's truly innovative and I'm not surprised you missed it.

How about including links to install the top 4 web browsers. Whoa! Crazy!
post #67 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Like the Mac Mini?

LOL

Bring yer own!
post #68 of 71
Quote:
How about including links to install the top 4 web browsers. Whoa! Crazy!

It is crazy, actually, to expect Microsoft to advertise for other companies. What kind of money would Microsoft get for such amazing and powerful advert space? Presumably none at all, right?

What are "the top 5 web browsers"? The most downloaded? The most standards compliant?

So Microsoft includes links to download Opera and Firefox. Can Google sue? Can Apple sue? Do shells for IE (like AvantBrowser) count?

I love Microsoft's response.
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post #69 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

It is crazy, actually, to expect Microsoft to advertise for other companies. What kind of money would Microsoft get for such amazing and powerful advert space? Presumably none at all, right?

What are "the top 5 web browsers"? The most downloaded? The most standards compliant?

So Microsoft includes links to download Opera and Firefox. Can Google sue? Can Apple sue? Do shells for IE (like AvantBrowser) count?

I love Microsoft's response.

Oh I don't expect that Microsoft would ever do it, but I was responding to the poster who said "Giving people a choice of browsers isn't really possible, as how do you decide who makes it onto the list? Any programmer could start making there own version of WebKit and demand it be a choice for the user."

But it would clearly be the most USED browsers. The browser metrics are well understood and there would be no argument that IE, FF, Safari and Chrome are the top 4 browsers. Opera is 5. Beyond that it doesn't matter.

It would be very easy to include an app (like google updater) that made it one-click easy to install any of those five browsers.

Not saying that it will or should happen. Just that it would be easy to do and suggesting otherwise is nuts.
post #70 of 71
Virgil-TB2: "...(according to American "morans")..."

Either this is tongue-in-cheek humor or hilariously ironic!
post #71 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by pairof9s View Post

Virgil-TB2: "...(according to American "morans")..."

Either this is tongue-in-cheek humor or hilariously ironic!

Standard internet tradition:



You must strive to become aware of all internet traditions, which in itself is an internet tradition.

Hooray for recursive tomfoolery!
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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