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Need help getting Bootcamp working with 4 partitions

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Hi guys,

My machine:
- MacBook Pro (Pre-Unibody)
- 2.4 Ghz Intel C2D
- 4 GB RAM 667 Mhz DDR2 SDRAM
- 320 GB Seagate HD

I am trying to partition my hard drive into 4 partitions. However, I can't get Windows working with more than 2 partitions. I know that there is some way to get this to work, I just haven't been able to find the necessary hack/guide. To make matters more complicated, my Windows partition is set over 32 GB, in fact, it is about 80 GB.

I'm willing to completely re-install everything and completely repartition my hard drive to get this to work. I just would like to know of a sure fire step by step way to get this setup working. 3 Partitions HFS+ and 1 partition for Windows XP SP3 = 4 partitions.

Thanks for any time and effort that could be spared to help me on this.
post #2 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon8472 View Post

Hi guys,

My machine:
- MacBook Pro (Pre-Unibody)
- 2.4 Ghz Intel C2D
- 4 GB RAM 667 Mhz DDR2 SDRAM
- 320 GB Seagate HD

I am trying to partition my hard drive into 4 partitions. However, I can't get Windows working with more than 2 partitions. I know that there is some way to get this to work, I just haven't been able to find the necessary hack/guide. To make matters more complicated, my Windows partition is set over 32 GB, in fact, it is about 80 GB.

I'm willing to completely re-install everything and completely repartition my hard drive to get this to work. I just would like to know of a sure fire step by step way to get this setup working. 3 Partitions HFS+ and 1 partition for Windows XP SP3 = 4 partitions.

Thanks for any time and effort that could be spared to help me on this.

The best way to solve this problem is uninstalling Windows from all your partitions and while you are at it also uninstall all Microsoft software from your mac partition too. Two pieces of advice:
1. There is nothing you need to do that can't be done in the mac.
2. See rule no. 1

When your life becomes Windows-free (change jobs if you need to) you will thank me for it.
post #3 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

The best way to solve this problem is uninstalling Windows from all your partitions and while you are at it also uninstall all Microsoft software from your mac partition too.

Arrogant, and not an option on the table.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Two pieces of advice:

Not looking for advice, looking for a technical solution to my technical problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

1. There is nothing you need to do that can't be done in the mac.
2. See rule no. 1

Let me invalidate your statement in two words, PC Gaming. Not all games have been ported to the Mac yet, nor do they tend to be of higher quality than their PC relatives, generally that is.

Now, let's go into the academia and business sector. Sometimes your required to run software that is PC only. Keyword = required. Unless your the dean or president of the company, then their isn't much that can be quickly done about that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

When your life becomes Windows-free (change jobs if you need to) you will thank me for it.

I hate Windows. The interface, the design, the security, all of it. Now, there is PC software, like gaming which has its own interface (hiding the Windows interface) which I enjoy using (playing). So until a whole lot of titles get ported over to the Mac, Windows will still have some use.

Also, it's hard to thank you for this as you've done nothing to help my actual problem except post uselessly trying to get me to ignore my problem as opposed to trying to find a solution to it. I'm not a new computer user, for either the PC or Mac platforms.

Changing jobs is also an arrogant comment to make. You have no idea whether or not someone is happy with his/her job or whether or not it would be worth it to change jobs based on the computer alone.
post #4 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon8472 View Post

Arrogant, and not an option on the table.



Not looking for advice, looking for a technical solution to my technical problem.



Let me invalidate your statement in two words, PC Gaming. Not all games have been ported to the Mac yet, nor do they tend to be of higher quality than their PC relatives, generally that is.

Now, let's go into the academia and business sector. Sometimes your required to run software that is PC only. Keyword = required. Unless your the dean or president of the company, then their isn't much that can be quickly done about that.




I hate Windows. The interface, the design, the security, all of it. Now, there is PC software, like gaming which has its own interface (hiding the Windows interface) which I enjoy using (playing). So until a whole lot of titles get ported over to the Mac, Windows will still have some use.

Also, it's hard to thank you for this as you've done nothing to help my actual problem except post uselessly trying to get me to ignore my problem as opposed to trying to find a solution to it. I'm not a new computer user, for either the PC or Mac platforms.

Changing jobs is also an arrogant comment to make. You have no idea whether or not someone is happy with his/her job or whether or not it would be worth it to change jobs based on the computer alone.

Obviously you are not happy with your job since you are forced to use windows which you hate. Besides, if you are forced to use windows then the people you work with can't be that bright in which case you will be better off changing jobs.

Other than that you apparently really use windows because of gaming. Do yourself a favor and buy a nintendo wii or some other console and get rid of windows.
post #5 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Obviously you are not happy with your job since you are forced to use windows which you hate.

Nope, fallacious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Besides, if you are forced to use windows then the people you work with can't be that bright in which case you will be better off changing jobs.

An assumption, and I hope you know what assumptions make people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Other than that you apparently really use windows because of gaming.

For my personal use, yes that is the only reason why I would keep Windows around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Do yourself a favor and buy a nintendo wii or some other console and get rid of windows.

I have them; and they do different style of games. With a keyboard and mouse, you have different gaming possibilities. You don't buy a Wii to play PS2 games! Their interfaces to play are different, and so are the games. Is this simple enough for you to understand?
post #6 of 21
Tauron's advice for everything these days is to uninstall Windows.

You can try this guide and see if it works:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...86&postcount=6

You don't really need to have multiple partitions unless you are booting from multiple systems. For testing out operating systems, you can boot from external drives.

Years ago I would partition drives to separate the data from the system but with archive installs and good backups, I just haven't felt the need.
post #7 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Tauron's advice for everything these days is to uninstall Windows.

Clearly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

You can try this guide and see if it works:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...86&postcount=6

Thank you very much, I'll try that out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

You don't really need to have multiple partitions unless you are booting from multiple systems. For testing out operating systems, you can boot from external drives.

Generally, I'd agree with that. But I'm going to be very mobile (hence MBP) and so I wanted two extra partitions, totaling 4 partitions. My main OS X boot, Windows, OS X Installation - which I could re-image as Disk Warrior CD as well, OS X installed OS backup. That way I had a high chance of always having a usable system that could access my files.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Years ago I would partition drives to separate the data from the system but with archive installs and good backups, I just haven't felt the need.

I thought about that, I use to do that for swap, but stopped doing it as it was a hassle and I didn't feel that it gave me a significant enough return for investment of time. I did RAID before Time Machine came along, which for me was a better solution. Going more mobile, I'll have to setup a server and route my Time Machine backups wirelessly over the network since I don't want to tout around hard drives.

- Again, I wanted to say thank you Marvin for the help. This issue has really been bugging me for the longest of time!
post #8 of 21
The first secret to this is that you have to have Windows be the last partition in the first 4... but you have to count the "hidden" EFI partition that is on the drive. So for your layout Windows needs to be the 3rd ("visible") partition. This is a limitation of the system that simulates the BIOS boot system for Windows.

I have worked with a system that had 5 partitions (+ the EFI partition), and it works out well.
post #9 of 21
Thread Starter 
Okay, so I repartitioned my 320 GB hard drive into 3 partitions. MacHD (HFS), Spare (FAT32), and WINXP (FAT32) and was able to install Windows XP onto the FAT32 drive and reformat it to NTFS. So that was a promising first step. I went back and repartitioned my hard drive into the 4 envisioned partitions like so:

MacHD = HFS = 219.46 GB
BACKUPOS = FAT32 = 15 GB
INSTALLOS = FAT32 = 10 GB
WINXP = FAT32 = 75.27 GB

However, when I boot into Windows XP Install, I get this:

305243 MB Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on atapi [MBR]
F: Partition1 [Unknown] 200 MB
G: Partition2 [Unknown] 209294 MB ***This is my MacHD
Unpartitioned space 128 MB
C: Partition3 <BACKUPOS> [FAT32] 14305 MB
D: Partition4 <INSTALLOS> [FAT32] 9535 MB
Unpartitioned space 71780 MB


What's confusing is that the last unpartitioned space sized at 71780 MB should be recognized as FAT32 and <WINXP> right? The other two FAT32 partitions showed up just fine. JWiegley post warned against using the Windows install changing the partition table. So I figured that I'd come back posting here asking for the next step.

Any ideas Karl Kuehn?
post #10 of 21
My first suggestion would be to go back and re-read my last post. The layout you have (with Window in position 5.. including the EFI partition) will not work. Windows can only see (and be installed to) the first 4 partitions, and that includes the (hidden) EFI partition that is always first. And the only bootable partition is the last one in the first 4 (including the EFI partition). Move MacOS X to be the last partition and things will be happier.
post #11 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Kuehn View Post

My first suggestion would be to go back and re-read my last post. The layout you have (with Window in position 5.. including the EFI partition) will not work. Windows can only see (and be installed to) the first 4 partitions, and that includes the (hidden) EFI partition that is always first. And the only bootable partition is the last one in the first 4 (including the EFI partition). Move MacOS X to be the last partition and things will be happier.

Oye, I'm sorry. I had misunderstood your post and its implications. I think I understand now what has to happen. Thank you very much for your time and expertise in this regard. I'm gonna go get to it right now!
post #12 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Kuehn View Post

My first suggestion would be to go back and re-read my last post. The layout you have (with Window in position 5.. including the EFI partition) will not work. Windows can only see (and be installed to) the first 4 partitions, and that includes the (hidden) EFI partition that is always first. And the only bootable partition is the last one in the first 4 (including the EFI partition). Move MacOS X to be the last partition and things will be happier.

I've tried:

305243 MB Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on atapi [MBR]
F: Partition1 [Unknown] 200 MB ***EFI
G: Partition2 [Unknown] 209294 MB ***This is my MacHD
Unpartitioned space 128 MB
C: Partition3 <WINXP> [FAT32] 71780 MB
D: Partition4 <INSTALLOS> [FAT32] 9535 MB
Unpartitioned space 14305 MB ***This is my FAT32 15 GB drive that will be reformatted as my secondary install of OS X)

Theoretically the above should work. But it gives me this error:
"Windows could not start because the following file is missing or corrupt: <Windows root>\\system32\\hal.dll. Please re-install a copy of the above file."

I wanted to try the above before moving (as you recommended) my main HFS partition to the bottom. I also tried some variations of the above including merging the INSTALLOS and BACKUPOS partitions into one larger FAT32 which I could then split later, but that didn't work either. Is it that Windows wants to see Partition2 say FAT32 or is there some step I'm missing? The damn thing boots when I have this one FAT32 partition between my HFS and Windows partition, but not with two - that gives me a "Disk error" I believe.
post #13 of 21
You are still missing things from my original post. I will copy-paste repeat it:

Quote:
The first secret to this is that you have to have Windows be the last partition in the first 4

My point about making MacOS last is only valid if you kept all the other partitions, so MacOS X would be #5, and not visible to Windows.

And why do you keep labeling things with Windows drive letters? None of those are valid, and the EFI partition will never show up with any drive letter. And only windows is silly enough to have the idea of drive letters. And they are only ever valid from inside a booted OS. Otherwise the disk partition numbers are the only ones that matter... and we are on EFI so they are even less valid (partition number or GUID are valid).
post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Kuehn View Post

My point about making MacOS last is only valid if you kept all the other partitions, so MacOS X would be #5, and not visible to Windows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Kuehn View Post

The first secret to this is that you have to have Windows be the last partition in the first 4

Partitions: (In order)
EFI
OS X
BackupOS
Windows
- That worked.

Partitions: (In order)
EFI
OS X
BackupOS
Windows
InstallOS
- That doesn't work.

Why does the first work and the second one doesn't then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Kuehn View Post

And why do you keep labeling things with Windows drive letters? None of those are valid, and the EFI partition will never show up with any drive letter. And only windows is silly enough to have the idea of drive letters. And they are only ever valid from inside a booted OS. Otherwise the disk partition numbers are the only ones that matter... and we are on EFI so they are even less valid (partition number or GUID are valid).

I don't disagree; I was simple posting what Windows Setup was showing me that way you'd be seeing what I was seeing. Just in case it mattered, I didn't know whether it would or not.
post #15 of 21
Basically, this is the EFI 4 partition limit which is actually 3 for boot drives, 1 of the partitions is that little piece of crap partion (200 MB).

I run a triple boot system, that is:

EFI
Mac OS X (10.4)
Windows XP
(no linux swap partition)
Fedora (Linux)
4 partitions

I am going to be changing this on my MacBook, coming up, to:

EF
Mac OS X (10.4)
Mac OS X (10.6)
Windows XP
4 partitions

-----

On my Mac Pro

I boot off an ATA/100 drive for windows, MBR table, doing this:


EFI
Windows XP (x64)
(linux swap partition)
Fedora (x64) (Linux)
once again 4 partitions


Those are some options for somethings you can do, if you want you can sub out the linux for your Install OS

Thing is having a backup os on the same disk is kinda alright I guess for your own personal accidents, but don't forget if that one drive dies they all die...

So yeah, it can't be done because of a EFI limitation. Sucks, it's not like the old days where you could have 8 partitions or whatever.

Laters...
Adobe Systems - "Preventing the Case-Sensitive revolution everyday..."
Reply
Adobe Systems - "Preventing the Case-Sensitive revolution everyday..."
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post #16 of 21
Thread Starter 
Gotcha, yea I think I misunderstood (again) what Karl Kuehn was trying to say (sorry ). Well now that I know this, I'll change my plans accordingly. Thanks rezwits, Karl Kuehn, and Marvin for all the help. I really do appreciate it!
post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon8472 View Post

Nope, fallacious.



An assumption, and I hope you know what assumptions make people.



For my personal use, yes that is the only reason why I would keep Windows around.



I have them; and they do different style of games. With a keyboard and mouse, you have different gaming possibilities. You don't buy a Wii to play PS2 games! Their interfaces to play are different, and so are the games. Is this simple enough for you to understand?

Hey man, if you have enough time to play games you have enough time to fix windows partitions. Because windows and maintenance time sinkholes always go together you should get mentally prepared for the future.
post #18 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Hey man, if you have enough time to play games you have enough time to fix windows partitions.

There does not seem to be a fix that would allow me to have the number of partitions I want with the capabilities I desire given the limitations of EFI/Windows interaction. I will simple resign myself to having 2 partitions, MacHD and Bootcamp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Because windows and maintenance time sinkholes always go together you should get mentally prepared for the future.

I have been fixing Windows problems and setting up Macs for years. I'm mentally prepared to say the least. I'm no advocate for Windows, it sucks, and I really would wish everyone would go Mac only. In my work place, I'm trying to comprise by turning the Windows machines into Linux boxes since they strictly don't allow the purchase of anymore Macs. I'm not happy with Linux, but I'm happier with Linux than I am with Windows.
post #19 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon8472 View Post

There does not seem to be a fix that would allow me to have the number of partitions I want with the capabilities I desire given the limitations of EFI/Windows interaction. I will simple resign myself to having 2 partitions, MacHD and Bootcamp.



I have been fixing Windows problems and setting up Macs for years. I'm mentally prepared to say the least. I'm no advocate for Windows, it sucks, and I really would wish everyone would go Mac only. In my work place, I'm trying to comprise by turning the Windows machines into Linux boxes since they strictly don't allow the purchase of anymore Macs. I'm not happy with Linux, but I'm happier with Linux than I am with Windows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon8472 View Post

There does not seem to be a fix that would allow me to have the number of partitions I want with the capabilities I desire given the limitations of EFI/Windows interaction. I will simple resign myself to having 2 partitions, MacHD and Bootcamp.



I have been fixing Windows problems and setting up Macs for years. I'm mentally prepared to say the least. I'm no advocate for Windows, it sucks, and I really would wish everyone would go Mac only. In my work place, I'm trying to comprise by turning the Windows machines into Linux boxes since they strictly don't allow the purchase of anymore Macs. I'm not happy with Linux, but I'm happier with Linux than I am with Windows.


Hello Talon8472,

don't panic if someone here doesn't give you the right answer to your question. You are on an Apple board where most of the members are Apple enthusiasts and never want to become Microsoft slaves in their live. ;-)

If you are still looking for the solution, I may help you. On my Mac mini I use the same partition scheme you described before - three Mac partitions and one Windows partition.

First of all, make a backup of all your data situated on your internal harddrive.
Secondly repartition it with the Apple DiskUtility program found on your Install Disk to only one harddrive (HFS+ Journaled). It has to be the GUID partition scheme, look under options to select it.
Then repartition the harddisk a second time in the following order. Windows has to be the third one in order!

1 "Macos" HFS+ Journaled
2 "Programs" HFS+ Journaled
3 "Windows" FAT32 MSDOS
4 "Files" HFS+ Journaled

You can name the partitions like you want, but I reccommend not to use spaces like "Mac OS" in this step. You can rename all afterwards if you like.

Now check if the Windows partition is "disk0s4" within the Disk Utility Program (Info-Button after selecting the Windows partition on the left hand side).

Now, insert your Windows XP SP2 or newer or Windows Vista CD and reboot your mac, starting to install Windows. When Windows asks you to select the correct Volume, it should be the C-Drive with the corresponding amount of Gigabytes you have selected during partitioning, dont select the wrong one because Windows won't install onto another partition. This is because of an issue about EFI and MBR restrictions and my solution is only a workaround. ;-)

Sometimes, the Disk Ulitiliy Program does not work properly, therefore I reccomend that you start the terminal instead and use the disutil command. Be careful not to format any other drives!!

Open up a terminal window and type "diskutil list":
On my Mac it looked like this:

/dev/disk0
#: type name size identifier
0: GUID_partition_scheme *74.5 GB disk0
1: EFI 200.0 MB disk0s1
2: Apple_HFS Macos 74.1 GB disk0s2


Find the identifier of your Mac OS X partition (in this case disk0s2) and type the following in order to repartition the drive:

sudo diskutil resizeVolume [disk identifier] [disk size] [partition type] ["Partition label"] [partition size] [partition type] ["Partition label"] [partition size] [partition type] ["Partition label"] [partition size]


Example:

sudo diskutil resizeVolume disk0s2 20G "JHFS+" "Programs" 25G "MS-DOS FAT32" "Windows" 15G "JHFS+" "Files" 14.2G
This resizes the existing Macos partition from 74.1 GB to 20GB and adds three more partitions.

This looks like this on my Mac afterwards (I have Windows XP already installed):


/dev/disk0
#: type name size identifier
0: GUID_partition_scheme *74.5 GB disk0
1: EFI 200.0 MB disk0s1
2: Apple_HFS Macos 19.9 GB disk0s2
3: Apple_HFS Programs 24.9 GB disk0s3
4: Microsoft Basic Data Windows 15.0 GB disk0s4 . . . <-- has to be the 4th
5: Apple_HFS Files 14.2 GB disk0s5


Now, restart your mac with the Windows Installation CD and select the C-Drive (15GB in my case) and reformat ONLY this volume using NTFS Fast Format and all things shoud work fine. If Windows starts and works properly, you can install MacOS X and all your other nice stuff. DONT USE any Windows program to alter the size of the partition.

I hope that I was able to help you. Please forgive my bad English, I am neither a native American speaker nor an English student from oxford. I am an software specialist from Germany.
post #20 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinMac View Post

Hello Talon8472,

don't panic if someone here doesn't give you the right answer to your question. You are on an Apple board where most of the members are Apple enthusiasts and never want to become Microsoft slaves in their live. ;-)

Yea, no kidding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinMac View Post

If you are still looking for the solution, I may help you. On my Mac mini I use the same partition scheme you described before - three Mac partitions and one Windows partition.

Thank you for posting a solution, however, I had already given up on that dream - for now. I might redo my setup next year though and try again. I will keep this thread on my hard drive for future reference to try this technique.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WinMac View Post

I hope that I was able to help you. Please forgive my bad English, I am neither a native American speaker nor an English student from oxford. I am an software specialist from Germany.

Your English was very understandable and quite verbose in articulating the solution. Thank you very much for your time and effort. I'll keep this on my computer for when I repartition my drive again.
post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon8472 View Post

Your English was very understandable and quite verbose in articulating the solution. Thank you very much for your time and effort. I'll keep this on my computer for when I repartition my drive again.


Hehe, "verbose" means "wordy", "lengthy" or "diffuse" in German, I hope you haven't got tired reading my explanations.

I saw your question only by coincidence searching for other things in Google and spontaneously registered at appleinsider.com to answer your question.

Please keep in mind that Apple changes things each time they release another version of MacOS X. I hope my workaround lasts long enough to survive the distribution of Windows and its descendants published by Microsoft.

Thanks for your immediate response and thanks for keeping the world moving by using a Mac.
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