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AT&T already sold out of launch day iPhone 3G S pre-orders - Page 5

post #161 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

I DON'T have all the facts correct I am sure. The 1000 to one compression on fiber optic has been available for 10 yrs. The inventor warned of the over laying of fiber because he claimed software he wrote can compress data packets 100 to 1. This was months before JD uni , Corel and Cisco stock prices crashed. Months LATER HE CLAIMED HE LIED, It was 1000 to 1 he stated. That is how or why we got so much dark fiber left over back then. I think .

What you're talking about is very different, and doesn't directly apply to what we're talking about.

Quote:
My over all point is like our highway system . Of course it's not free free. We indirectly pay for all our roads and bridges. As you state 4g or things not even invented yet will speed up the process of wiring the whole country. Or will we even need wire's at all ?

Nothing significant that's man made is ever really free. We pay one way or the other.

4G will require towers, just as the older services did, and still do. there is wiring to the towers. All of this is costing AT&T and Verizon over $10 billion a year each to expand. Very expensive.

The Sunday NY Times Magazine this past Sunday was devoted to infrastructure. In one article it showed cell growth from 1984 to 2006, in the US.

In '84 there were 92,000 subscribers with 346 cell sites. In 2006 there were 233,041,000 subscribers with 195,613 cell sites.

Who paid for all of the sites? Yes, the subscribers. There will be another 35,000 sites added in the next 12 months in addition to over the 60,000 added since 2006..

Quote:
But at some point in the future every large company involved in the internet. That wants to keep its or hold its place in the internet. Will give billtheirions of dollars to finish the wiring of America. Of course they will get something for their trouble. And local state and federal gov't will also pay for this. These large companies are allowed to exist as monopolies' including apple. That right of way given to them is not and will not be free forever. WE will nail them to the wall's if need be.

That's ridiculous.

They don't just get "right of way". They aren't railroads. Very often the "right of way" is on private property for which they pay a pretty penny. AND, often building owners and other propty owners refuse them the ability to lay cable, or build a tower where needed.

This is an aspect to coverage that must be known. How many people can't get cable because of one guy on a block in some community who won't allow access, and it must go through him? In apartment buildings, the same thing occurs.

No one is nailing anyone to the wall over this.

Quote:
BUT it is coming . Every american will have easy and free access to the internet. How ever they work out the details. Our poorest child will learn to read in the clouds . And that video game she plays will make her a math champion at least she has a level shot.

Earth calling! Hello?

Come back to the ground. It will take more than a few years for these networks to be build out enough so that their expenses are low enough for much of that to happen. There are laws being passed to give poor people cells, just as they've been given land line phones, and are allowed to get Tvs. But there are extreme cases, and it will take a while for any large implementation to occur. Remember that phone companies were allowed to charge most people more to pay for the cost of building phone service out to highly unprofitable areas. Maybe we'll see that with cell as well.

Quote:
The future is here . My friend has not paid for a phone call in years. And he makes a lot of call's .
And he's only tapped a tiny bit of the internet to do this.

Skype and other VOIP services are very limited in what they can do, and the quality of service sucks. In addition, it's tough to get 911 service with VOIP, so you lose some safety with it.

Quote:
Again all I am saying may end up as total bullshit and AT&T will charge us forever.

Likely.

Quote:
Or ten years from now companies like verizon who want to sell us everything that has content in it bundled and wrapped on a single bill/ Will be the way the telecoms will look like. And will Apple and Google and or France try to ALSO SUPPLY the content to us ?

Thats already started. Haven't you noticed? The cable companies have been selling cable service, internet service and phone service on one line, with one bill. AT&T and Verizon are doing the same.

Apple has been supplying the content for years, remember iTunes? It's up in the air about Google.

Quote:
The question why johnny can't read, will either haunt the Telecom's or it will open up trillions of dollars in future business. I guess the latter.

The question about reading has nothing to do with the telecoms, and more with lazy parents.

Quote:
Its now 12 o'clock. Time for me to turn on hulu and watch ep. 7 of kings .

Oh yeah, they're talking about charging for Hulu also.

Quote:
peace

Always
post #162 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

You are wrong.

THE beach is free. Yet cities' erect barriers to access the said beach.
YET THE BEACH IS STILL FREE. So is the internet . Access to the internet may be restricted or like china outright blocked . The charges you pay are access charges. Which, as like the phone call situation, one day be free of charge.

Mel once your on the net what do you pay ?? Tell me .

Most of the barriers to a real free internet will disappear with competion . If you still are not sure that the internet is free then I will leave you with a single word.
hulu





is







free

1) Youre moving back into your old posting habits.

2) Nothing is free. Just because it doesnt cost you anything directly doesnt mean its free. Beaches are maintained by taxes the internet is supported by revenue and taxes. You pay for your ISP connection which in turn helps pay for your ISPs ISP, and so on. Everything comes with a price.
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #163 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

You are wrong.

THE beach is free. Yet cities' erect barriers to access the said beach.
YET THE BEACH IS STILL FREE. So is the internet . Access to the internet may be restricted or like china outright blocked . The charges you pay are access charges. Which, as like the phone call situation, one day be free of charge.

Mel once your on the net what do you pay ?? Tell me .

Most of the barriers to a real free internet will disappear with competion . If you still are not sure that the internet is free then I will leave you with a single word.
hulu

is

free

Do you understand what we're talking about here?

The internet was never free. At first it was a research project from DARPA and several major universities. Then later, it became the WEB, and we began to pay for it right at the start.

I pay $99 a month for service. Plus some subscriptions.

You can't compare the beach's sand with an infrastructure that is man-made. There is no comparison at all there.

Even radio and Tv frequencies are just "there". But transmitters and antennas must still be designed and built to use it. There is no comparable "airwave" for the internet as a wired service, as 99% of it still is. It's all man-made. Nothing free about it. Just like POTS.

And as I mentioned, you will likely be paying for Hulu before too long. They just want to lure you in first.
post #164 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

The coming trend is for all major USA cities' to provide Free wi-fi coverage that includes at some future point the whole city and out lying area's . SAN FRAN has started, so has Philly. AT some point all these so called hot spots like Bryant park in NYC will merge into a seamless wi-fi blanket.…

There is so much of what you have said that is wrong.

As pointed out, many cities that planned and some have even started to build free Wi-Fi have stopped. It is just too expensive and now with the financial crisis, more are being put on hold or quashed completely.

For some reason, a lot of people are misguided and honestly believe that the internet is free. Much of it is paid for by the tax payer via government funding and grants particularly to the military and universities. Unfortunately, the technology is still expanding and there is not one or probably never will be, a standard that is acceptable to everybody. As such, more monies are needed, and the well is getting dry.

What is quite evident these days, is the increase in error messages notifying that the sight (url) is no longer available. As a researcher, even Google search results aren't as prolific as before. Companies are shrinking the amount of data they are hosting, backup services are going out of business, how to's are disappearing. And please, don't tried to convince me that the internet is becoming more refined.

What I was trying to point out is that the iPhone and in particular, now with the updated OS coming, our current use of the internet via the iPhone and iPod touch may be just a sample of what is to come. Instant text messaging is not cheap. Somebody has to pay for the massive storage and routing billions of messages that must be in place to support the service. Now, imagine the logistics and costs of adding 100's of billions of images to a simple text message which , "Hey, how yer doin?" Especially when the recipient is at next table or around the corner.
post #165 of 191
MMS from AT&T is coming and it is free.

"Will AT&T offer MMS and tethering?
Later this summer, as part of the 3.0 software, AT&T will make multimedia messaging (MMS) available at no extra cost to customers with a text messaging bundle. And, in the future, AT&T will offer tethering capability for iPhone 3G S and iPhone 3G."

http://www.att.com/Common/merger/fil...omers_FAQs.pdf
post #166 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

MMS from AT&T is coming and it is free.

"Will AT&T offer MMS and tethering?
Later this summer, as part of the 3.0 software, AT&T will make multimedia messaging (MMS) available at no extra cost to customers with a text messaging bundle. And, in the future, AT&T will offer tethering capability for iPhone 3G S and iPhone 3G."

http://www.att.com/Common/merger/fil...omers_FAQs.pdf

MMS uses the data network so I would half expect it to be free, though AT&T now has to have servers for the storage, but I wonder if their statement of at no extra charge means free, or that it will cost you one of your SMSes to do it since youll have to have SMS to get MMS. That would still be at no extra charge."
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post #167 of 191
How come nobody noticed when I posted this earlier?

I'm hurt.
post #168 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

How come nobody noticed when I posted this earlier?

I'm hurt.

I noticed it, but didnt get a chance to respond with my query at that time.
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post #169 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Do you understand what we're talking about here?

The internet was never free. At first it was a research project from DARPA and several major universities. Then later, it became the WEB, and we began to pay for it right at the start.

I pay $99 a month for service. Plus some subscriptions.

You can't compare the beach's sand with an infrastructure that is man-made. There is no comparison at all there.

Even radio and Tv frequencies are just "there". But transmitters and antennas must still be designed and built to use it. There is no comparable "airwave" for the internet as a wired service, as 99% of it still is. It's all man-made. Nothing free about it. Just like POTS.

And as I mentioned, you will likely be paying for Hulu before too long. They just want to lure you in first.

Thank you for you're timely responces to both posts. What is POTS ?
Of course there is a charge for everything. My broadband is $40. A month, one day it will be free. The ISP will make money other ways. Like hulu.
I hope you are wrong about hulu.

I have a vision of what the internet is and what it can be. Maybe my arguments are slightly faulty.
I feel that the internet is exactly like the railroad, and the pound of flesh for all the right's of way will be had. Maybe in ten years, but it's coming.

Ten years from now or 15 years, once all the wire or wireless coverage of USA AND CANADA is finished. The internet 1 & 2 will have grown and morphed into something no one can imagine today. Just like after 3000 posts, no one saw the SD slot coming.
All I am saying is that the internet will become a < right>. Our gov't's WILL demand all citizen's of the USA have equal and easy access to the internet. 20 yrs from now people will laugh that this wasn't always true .

WHY mel do I go on after you tore down almost every thing I said ? WHY ? Because for a long time nowI have had a vision of the future internet. Of a great data cloud where ....

I work with children who can't read. While there are single parent homes up to 3 parent homes. While there are lazy parents to hands on parents, and even after intense teaching Johnny still can't read.
Your lazy parent crack is beneath you dude. And the internet is slowly starting to help these and all children.

The access to the beach is important because many people are blocked from reaching the beach. Yet it is our god given right in America to enjoy the beach. Even thou it no one 's fault, poor people today do not have easy access to the internet. Jane goes home at night and can't get online. 12 out of 30 students can't get online. And those children are not being afforded equal education. And when they hit college they are way behind.

And I see the all top Company's like MSFT APPLE VERIZON AT&T DELL and the rest needing no prompting in the future to make it so. To make it a right THAT every american have easy and cheap if not free access to the internet. To keep their monopolies' and to keep uncle sam off there backs they will make it so.

Who pay's for it all ??? Who paid for the rail road ? Who paid for highway road?

ANY way I am so way far off topic here. Sorry all.

Peace
9
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post #170 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Youre moving back into your old posting habits.

2 .

Sorry for the slipup 'teach'.
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post #171 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

MMS uses the data network so I would half expect it to be free, though AT&T now has to have servers for the storage, but I wonder if their statement of at no extra charge means free, or that it will cost you one of your SMSes to do it since youll have to have SMS to get MMS. That would still be at no extra charge."

I am not sure I understand what you mean by that.

MMS is not part of their Data Plan as such.

"Data Plan for iPhone includes unlimited data in the U.S. Access rich HTML email and desktop-level web browsing, as well as Visual Voicemail to listen to voicemail messages in any order you choose."

Text messaging was extra.

"Youve got unlimited data for your iPhone, why not get unlimited SMS messaging? With iPhone Text Messaging Unlimited, you never have to worry about sending or receiving a text message again. Send as many as you want, to as many friends and family as you want, as often as you want.

http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-pho...equestid=62422

Macworld has some addition questions and news: http://www.macworld.com/article/1411...have_text.html
post #172 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

Thank you for you're timely responces to both posts. What is POTS ?

POTS - Plain Old Telephone Service. It's a standard designation.

Quote:
Of course there is a charge for everything. My broadband is $40. A month, one day it will be free. The ISP will make money other ways.

One day it will be $50.

Quote:
Like hulu.
I hope you are wrong about hulu.

I'm only reporting what they've said.

Quote:
I have a vision of what the internet is and what it can be. Maybe my arguments are slightly faulty.
I feel that the internet is exactly like the railroad, and the pound of flesh for all the right's of way will be had. Maybe in ten years, but it's coming.

It's faulty because you're taking a utopian dream, and assuming that it's real. You think the railroad is free? You forget that they paid plenty to build those tracks and switches, and stations, and signaling systems, and routing centers, etc? That's all free? And what about the trains that run on those tracks? Those are free as well? How about all the people employed to run the damn things?

I don't understand where this is all coming from. Can you really forget all this?

Quote:
Ten years from now or 15 years, once all the wire or wireless coverage of USA AND CANADA is finished. The internet 1 & 2 will have grown and morphed into something no one can imagine today. Just like after 3000 posts, no one saw the SD slot coming.
All I am saying is that the internet will become a < right>. Our gov't's WILL demand all citizen's of the USA have equal and easy access to the internet. 20 yrs from now people will laugh that this wasn't always true .

Even if that were true, we would still be paying a good tax to pay for it.

This is like Europeans claiming that they get "free" health insurance, when they pay two to three times the taxes we do for the same amount of pay. Free? Hardly!

Quote:
WHY mel do I go on after you tore down almost every thing I said ? WHY ? Because for a long time nowI have had a vision of the future internet. Of a great data cloud where ....

It's not a cloud. It's hundreds of huge data centers which cost tens of billions to build, and billions a year to run. Plus the aforementioned networks the data must move over to get to you.

Quote:
I work with children who can't read. While there are single parent homes up to 3 parent homes. While there are lazy parents to hands on parents, and even after intense teaching Johnny still can't read.

I work with kids also, and have since my own daughter was born almost 18 years ago. I've seen a lot of water under that bridge.

Quote:
Your lazy parent crack is beneath you dude. And the internet is slowly starting to help these and all children.

Really? Even you just admitted they exist. I've seen lots of lazy parents who claim that it's the schools business to educate their kids. That now that their kids are going to class, their educational jobs are done! Hard to believe? believe it!

Ad we can't assume that everyone is equal educationally, because that's only politically correct. The truth is that there is that old "normal curve". The kids on the lefthand slope will always have a harder time of it no matter what.

I've seen too much political correctness in education, and it just impedes what needs to be done and understood.

The internet isn't going to change any of this. An individual computer with some good programs will help much more.


Quote:
The access to the beach is important because many people are blocked from reaching the beach. Yet it is our god given right in America to enjoy the beach. Even thou it no one 's fault, poor people today do not have easy access to the internet. Jane goes home at night and can't get online. 12 out of 30 students can't get online. And those children are not being afforded equal education. And when they hit college they are way behind.

Please stop talking about the beach. It's irrelevant.

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with you. People have to take responsibility for their own work, their own education, or at least their children's education. You can't hand it off to the internet. Yes, it's useful, but there are ways around it. It isn't a serious issue today.

Quote:
And I see the all top Company's like MSFT APPLE VERIZON AT&T DELL and the rest needing no prompting in the future to make it so. To make it a right THAT every american have easy and cheap if not free access to the internet. To keep their monopolies' and to keep uncle sam off there backs they will make it so.

All of these companies already have some sort of educational services. But I hope the government won't try to force them to lose money over this. How much more do YOU want to pay for these free services to others? Do you have a monthly figure you can share?


Quote:
Who pay's for it all ??? Who paid for the rail road ? Who paid for highway road?

The customers pay, as usual. Sometimes, as with the highways, we all pay in extra taxes, but even then there are tolls that only the users pay.
post #173 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

MMS uses the data network so I would half expect it to be free, though AT&T now has to have servers for the storage, but I wonder if their statement of at no extra charge means free, or that it will cost you one of your SMSes to do it since youll have to have SMS to get MMS. That would still be at no extra charge."

Of five of your SMSs...

While this would be awesome, and would finally explain why they would not have MMS at the outset (since they would not be benefiting financially from it), I still don't believe that it will be free (for the cost of one SMS). That would be amazing though and I'd love to be wrong.
post #174 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's faulty because you're taking a utopian dream, and assuming that it's real. You think the railroad is free? You forget that they paid plenty to build those tracks and switches, and stations, and signaling systems, and routing centers, etc? That's all free? And what about the trains that run on those tracks? Those are free as well? How about all the people employed to run the damn things?

I don't understand where this is all coming from. Can you really forget all this?

I think ole brucep could only hold it together for a few days. He clearly lost control today...
post #175 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

I am not sure I understand what you mean by that.

MMS is not part of their Data Plan as such.

From what Ive read, SMS sends the text message over the control channel that is used for maintaining the phones connection to the carrier, while MMS requires at least GPRS as the file sizes are considerably larger than SMS and cant feasibly use the carrier channel. They both end up at the carriers message center, but the way they get there are different. Think of a Highway v. a service road that is parallel to the highway.

At least, that is how I remember it. Please correct me if Im wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Of five of your SMSs...

While this would be awesome, and would finally explain why they would not have MMS at the outset (since they would not be benefiting financially from it), I still don't believe that it will be free (for the cost of one SMS). That would be amazing though and I'd love to be wrong.

Hmm, if its more than one SMS then I am not sure it could legally be considered at no extra cost. Though I wont use it unless its completely free because I think its a scam, I hope you are wrong, too.
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post #176 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

How come nobody noticed when I posted this earlier?

I'm hurt.

I noticed, but I deliberately withheld comment because I believe it's character building.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #177 of 191
hi, i joined these forums just now to tell you guys to get back on topic.

thanks

post #178 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I noticed, but I deliberately withheld comment because I believe it's character building.

Next your going to tell him that it puts hair on his chest.
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post #179 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

MMS from AT&T is coming and it is free.

"Will AT&T offer MMS and tethering?
Later this summer, as part of the 3.0 software, AT&T will make multimedia messaging (MMS) available at no extra cost to customers with a text messaging bundle. And, in the future, AT&T will offer tethering capability for iPhone 3G S and iPhone 3G."

http://www.att.com/Common/merger/fil...omers_FAQs.pdf

In other news, the Pre's first successful tether hack has surfaced:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/15/p...int-be-damned/
The Pre is starting to look like a hacker's paradise, but Sprint can't be happy about this latest hack. I wonder if their service will start to hinder if everyone with a Pre starts doing this.

Like AT&T, they didn't want tethering on their premier phone either. Presumably, the user base is too large and their networks can't handle it. People have been getting away with it on their windows mobile phone for a while now, but I don't even see commercials for their wm phones, much less hear about people flocking to them.

So the tethering thing with AT&T doesn't surprise me. At least they said they'll offer it, and it makes sense they will offer it after all their network upgrades.
post #180 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustFrozen View Post

hi, i joined these forums just now to tell you guys to get back on topic.

thanks


Actually, that's a pretty excellent first post. Welcome!

And notice how my graciousness cunningly subverts your demands! Because that's how we roll!
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #181 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Next your going to tell him that it puts hair on his chest.

It does, but unfortunately it's the blanket chest under his bed. It's....... not a pretty thing.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #182 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

It does, but unfortunately it's the blanket chest under his bed. It's....... not a pretty thing.

These here are the jokes! The funny stuff! Nod if you understand!

(Foghorn Leghorn)
post #183 of 191
Ha, I say, ha ha, son!
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #184 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I noticed, but I deliberately withheld comment because I believe it's character building.

Whose? Yours or mine?

I'm told that I'm quite a character already.
post #185 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustFrozen View Post

hi, i joined these forums just now to tell you guys to get back on topic.

thanks


Well, don't just stay on the sidelines, help us out!
post #186 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

I think ole brucep could only hold it together for a few days. He clearly lost control today...

Hey I'M ok . Just a little day dreaming, I apologize to everyone for not being clear. I tried to make a point and somehow could not say it clearly, and the more I tried the bigger the hole I was digging got. Plus I got nervous talking to the grand poo-bah.

I will end all this with the following post. I simply feel that one day the internet will be a part of some incredible things. Like educating the masses among other things. I guess you guys have shown I am wrong on some the details. Thank you for your input. When I speak person to person I have no trouble getting my points across. Today my written attempts failed badly. I will move on. Some years from now my idea's won't seem so silly I hope peace.

9

Lets get back on topic .
Has any one seen yolander today ?
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post #187 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Next your going to tell him that it puts hair on his chest.

What do you think I am, a gorilla?

On second thought, don't answer that.
post #188 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

Hey I'M ok . Just a little day dreaming, I apologize to everyone for not being clear. I tried to make a point and somehow could not say it clearly, and the more I tried the bigger the hole I was digging got. Plus I got nervous talking to the grand poo-bah.

I will end all this with the following post. I simply feel that one day the internet will be a part of some incredible things. Like educating the masses among other things. I guess you guys have shown I am wrong on some the details. Thank you for your input. When I speak person to person I have no trouble getting my points across. Today my written attempts failed badly. I will move on. Some years from now my idea's won't seem so silly I hope peace.

9

Lets get back on topic .
Has any one seen yolander today ?

Hey, nobody should get nervous talking to me!
post #189 of 191
This might be interesting here, and Bruce, it might have something to do with your talking about too:

http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/15/inn...partner=alerts
post #190 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


The internet isn't going to change any of this. An individual computer with some good programs will help much more.


'm sorry, but I just don't agree with you. People have to take responsibility for their own work, their own education, or at least their children's education. You can't hand it off to the internet. Yes, it's useful, but there are ways around it. It isn't a serious issue today.

.

Thank you mel for addressing my post in great detail. My post was very un-clear making all your responces off. Sorry in my mind it sounded so simple, I was i talking to some buddies and they understood and even added to it and i come here and just couldn't put it in words.
So i will let it go. And give you some peace, dude.

peace
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #191 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

This might be interesting here, and Bruce, it might have something to do with your talking about too:

http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/15/inn...partner=alerts

Great link, thank you.
I had my save the world hat on today
lol

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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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