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University claims Apple's glossy screens may cause injury - Page 7

post #241 of 333
6/15/09 at 6:58pm
Hey I was just wondering if you guys could go back and forth about 1,000 more times about how you hate each other making this the single longest two-person thread in AI history? Just saying get a room or something I hear that angry love can be therapeutic .
You win, I've switched sides.
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post #242 of 333
6/15/09 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Currrent Apple glossy displays are already low-glare.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

After reading the first 141 comments in this thread, that's the funniest one yet. The current displays are so reflective that they should be called the MacMirror Pro line.

Seriously, you must be joking, right? Those are NOT low-glare screens, by any stretch of the imagination. I would love it if they kept the glass but upgraded it to something that's less reflective than a mirror, but that's just the way they are.

You can argue that you don't care, and that's fine. Most people apparently don't care, and have some sort of magical switch in their brain to turn off their awareness of reflections that are absolutely unequivocally there. Even in relatively low light there is enough light coming from the screen itself (when it's turned up moderately bright) to cause a reflection of yourself. What a joke.

I just went to our local Apple store 2 days ago because someone suggested looking at the newest models. But they are every bit as reflective as the previous ones.

So, NO, they are NOT low-glare screens. You can say you don't mind the reflections, but please don't spread misinformation.
No Matte == No Sale :-(
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No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #243 of 333
6/15/09 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by patroll View Post

Apple is extremely successful financially and demonstrates time and again that it understands the market (public information). It seems implausible that they would risk their financial success by marketing a product which their own staff consider unfit for its intended use. I therefore conclude that the more likely scenario is that Apple, being a well-run company, is "sweating its assets", i.e. uses the old displays for training instead of selling them at half price or putting them in the bin.

You've gotta be kidding. Like Apple did their research that told them to remove Firewire from the MacBook -- and only after the outcry, they bring Firewire back in the latest MacBook?

Apple takes on the persona of its founder, Steve Jobs. The TIME magazine article indicates Steve is a dictator, and does not take kindly to people who differ with his opinions.
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post #244 of 333
6/15/09 at 7:45pm
They help people by studying the effects things we all use in every day life?

Anyway, this article has a misprint. There is a made-to order matte screen option; though, only on the 17" MBP.
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post #245 of 333
6/15/09 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

And you're siding with the Master of them.

TS, I'm sorry, but everything i've seen from you in these forums leads me to believe that's just a bunch of transference; you aren't talking about someone else, you are talking about yourself. Reflect for a moment on your chosen screen name: it clearly evidences both your general attitude and your primary character trait here: arrogance and self superiority.
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post #246 of 333
6/15/09 at 8:11pm
The glossy screens made people realize how fucking ugly they are because they can see their reflection in the screen and that led to their injuries.

Here is the problem with a matte screen: A side effect of the matte finish is a slight blurring, reduced contrast and a narrower viewing angle. Came directly from Popular Mechanics.

If you don't like the glossy screens, go buy a different computer and shut the hell up. By the way, other computer manufacturers use glossy screens too, far longer than Apple has used them. In a Macworld poll, more people preferred the glossy screen.
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post #247 of 333
6/15/09 at 8:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

The glossy screens made people realize how fucking ugly they are because they can see their reflection in the screen and that led to their injuries.

Here is the problem with a matte screen: A side effect of the matte finish is a slight blurring, reduced contrast and a narrower viewing angle. Came directly from Popular Mechanics.

The hybrid screens are a decent in-between option, but like matte v. glossy they have their pros and cons, too. You never get the best features of the other.
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post #248 of 333
6/15/09 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechengit View Post

You still don't want to admit your inappropriate deductions? How pathetic.

From post #7

I first mentioned the glare issues on Macbooks that Apple has acknowledged of. Does that mean I'm saying "glossy screen are definitely worse than matte and now only ignorant will use glossy screen. Glossy screen sucks and matte screen rules"? No. Ironically, you're the one who has been emphasizing the pros and cons of both sides!

I also mentioned that many ignorant consumers like the glossy screen in post #7. Does that mean I'm saying "whoever uses or likes glossy screen are ignorant"? Obviously not.

I'm glad that my words are recorded because it only goes to show your obviously inappropriate deduction.

By the way, I can say it again and again that many consumers, if not all, are ignorant. There, you have it and I can say that as many times as you like. That will not hide the fact that your misunderstanding is based on your own deduction.

Man, you are cracking me up and really made my day.



So that means whoever uses glossy screen are ignorant?
So does that mean I said that a glossy screen is necessarily a worse screen than a matte one?
Obviously not!



So that means whoever uses glossy screen are ignorant?
So does that mean I said that a glossy screen is necessarily a worse screen than a matte one?
Obviously not!



So that means whoever uses glossy screen are ignorant?
So does that mean I said that a glossy screen is necessarily a worse screen than a matte one?
Obviously not!



Oh... so that draws to the conclusion that whoever uses glossy screen are ignorant?
So does that mean I said that a glossy screen is necessarily a worse screen than a matte one?
Obviously not!

Man, you are really cracking me up. You not only misread once, but four times.

You are the perfect candidate to use this famous quote. (Credited to R.M. Nixon, and others) Copy and Paste at will. I'll save you a whole lot of typing.

"I know you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure that you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
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post #249 of 333
6/15/09 at 8:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It’s that ol’ ingrained glossy-liking ignorance in me.

Keep dodging. Fine with me.

If you insist on your faulty deduction that you and user_23 have been making, thinking that the sentence "bunch of ignorant consumers like the glossy screen" means that "glossy screen is necessarily worse than matte screen", you will inevitably come to a stupid conclusion that whatever better or good products (either glossy or matte screen) must have very few ignorant owners, if not none. In reality this has never been the case. I don't even need to argue for that.

The sentence "bunch of ignorant consumers like the glossy screen" obviously does not mean that "all glossy screen users are ignorant". Come on. This is a simple logic.

Your signature "mechengit : "ignorant consumers like the glossy screen."" not only provides your pathetic intention of misleading, but also goes to show that the statement "whoever uses glossy screen are ignorant" is obviously based on your faulty deductions which are recorded clearly on this forum.

Of course, it's obvious that you're either dodging my points (and have been doing that for quite awhile) or really stupid to not understand, which I hope is not the case.

Seriously, what do you get from this other than embarrassing yourself especially when your misunderstanding isn't even because of the exact quote or paraphrase of what I said but rather your faulty deduction?
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post #250 of 333
6/15/09 at 8:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post

You are the perfect candidate to use this famous quote. (Credited to R.M. Nixon, and others) Copy and Paste at will. I'll save you a whole lot of typing.

"I know you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure that you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

And you are seemingly to be one of the idiots who happen to believe that good products have a very few ignorant users, if not none. Please stop trying to be a smart ass especially when you're only reading quotes taken out of context.
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post #251 of 333
6/15/09 at 8:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerofTruth View Post

What exactly did you not like about the glossy screens? Did you have a lot of glare or reflections, or was it the colors seemed more purple and out of gamut? Did you calibrate them? ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fltman View Post

The problem was glare and reflections. I work as a senior software developer so gamut, saturation etc is not a very big deal for me.

Ditto, ditto, ditto. Honestly, calibration is not a big deal for most people, although consumers tend to like things that are brighter and shinier, which the glossy screens are.

I wonder if software developers are less able to turn off parts of their vision? ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by patroll View Post

How about the financial incentive of making good use of perfectly usable but less desirable, older-generation monitors? This seems more logical to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

No- the logic is that you simply can't view Glossy en masse.

I think teckstud has a good point (OMG!). If you have a bunch of people sitting in fixed positions, then at least one set of people (if not more) are not going to be able to see parts of the screen. That would suck if you were in a class and couldn't see the screen due to the store light reflections.
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No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #252 of 333
6/15/09 at 8:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I wll buy the new 13" LED model not because the screen is my choiuce buy because I have no option. I mean how long can I wait? At least now it is a brighter Pro LED not average LED like the previous 13" UNibody.

You're going to be sorry... :-( I guess if you spend your hard-earned cash to buy it you might be able to convince yourself over time that you like it, but because you see the reflections now (unlike so many) I doubt you'll ever get around that.

My suggestion? Look for a gently-used previous generation MBP w/matte screen. The newer screens may be brighter, but they have no less reflections than the previous version.
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No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #253 of 333
6/15/09 at 9:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerofTruth View Post

... The issue with the reflection is easily fixed by making sure you're not working in an environment that has a lot of light sources to create glare or reflections that would distract you. Anybody that's been using computers for more than 15 years should remember that in the early 90's glare was a real problem on CRTs.

Wow, so easy to say, but a laptop is designed for mobility. Unless you have a fixed desk with ideal lighting, how are you supposed to achieve "not working in an environment that has a lot of light sources to create glare or reflections that would distract you"?

I own a laptop so I can work wherever I'm at, be it in a client's office, a coffee shop, or at home. And "at home" can mean any comfortable seat in the house. Are you saying I should sacrifice all that flexibility? I might as well go back to a friggin' desktop (and deal with all kinds of bad back issues)!
No Matte == No Sale :-(
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No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #254 of 333
6/15/09 at 9:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Turns out previous generations of Macs, the Glossy outsold Matte by 10 to 1. I can see why they dropped it. It costs too much to leave a little used option in the product line.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...op,2130-4.html

I've seen that quoted elsewhere, but where is it stated as more than rumor? It's also a very conveniently round number, that 10-1, I don't believe it. Do a bunch of googling and you'll find others who say matte outsold glossy by inverse ratios (various machines, not just Macs). Right now, of course glossy is outselling matte because that's what's more common in the stores.

Because people like bright and shiny!
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No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #255 of 333
6/15/09 at 9:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

...
Apple is selling over 50% of their Apple Store sales to NEW to Mac/first time users.

I have nothing against using glossy displays to sucker new users into a "look shiny" impulse purchase.

Just give us regulars/experienced types the option to have a matte option.

Yes, thank you! I couldn't have written it better.
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post #256 of 333
6/15/09 at 9:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DdubRes79 View Post

Hey I was just wondering if you guys could go back and forth about 1,000 more times about how you hate each other making this the single longest two-person thread in AI history? Just saying get a room or something I hear that angry love can be therapeutic .

What can I say? The misunderstanding is not even based on any hard fact but on people's subjective feeling that I want to condemn all glossy screens in the world and thier users just because I said something like "many ignorant users like glossy screen." Seriously, do people know that products that they think are good might have many ignorant users as well? It's just so funny how people can't figure this out.

If anyone who is rational enough to put my word in context, I'm obviously trying to say that Apple is not addressing the acknowledged glare issue that can be fixed particular on the Macbook Pro glossy screens because many ignorant users like the glossy screen. They are either not able to acknowledge the issue or just simply ignoring the glare issue on Macbook Pros, which is an ignorant action itself. This is simply not equivalent to "all glossy screen users are ignorant" or "all glossy screens in the world are worse screens than the matte ones.", especially when you put my words in context.

I'm definitely fine if anyone disagrees with my point of view on how Apple is going to deal with their screen, but the fact that pulling statements like "all glossy screen users are ignorant" or "all glossy screens are worse screens than the matte ones" out from thin air and accusing me of saying those is simply wrong and unethical. They can't even quote such sentence from me and now they are dodging my defense. Worst of all, solipsism even intentionally put misleading signature by over-generalizing what I said:"mechengit : "ignorant consumers like the glossy screen."" which is VERY DIFFERENT from what I said: "many ignorant like the glossy screen". Really, what kind of learned adult is this?
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post #257 of 333
6/15/09 at 9:36pm
[re: 40% of market prefers matte polls]

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Its not about the size of the market, its about Apples desire to address that market. I cant see the engineering being complex or costly enough for Apple to ignore 40% of their potential market, but that is the way these polls usually go. They are usually worded in ways or put on certain websites that skew the polling, although internet polls themselves are flawed. For instance, do a poll to see if people prefer the AIO iMac or the elusive xMac. Im sure youll find that most people responding to the polls want the xMac, but that doesnt mean its viable for Apple. That is not to say that matte displays are out of the question for Apple, but we should at least to consider why Apple would not have the option on the 15 and 13 models after 9 months of the glossy displays. Or why they charge $50 more for a display that could potentially appeal to 40% or more of their customers when the cost doesnt appear to be higher than the glossy display. Or why Apple stated that they moved to glossy because an overwhelming percentage of their customer-base preferred glossy if it wasnt true. ...

These are all very good thoughts and questions. Honestly, unless the polls are *grossly* wrong, I can't understand Apple's decision. The MacPolls poll has over 30,000 votes. It would be hard to imagine that poll being dreadfully wrong. For those who don't want to take the time to click away, here's what it says:

Prefer:
Glossy\t 32.31 % (10,007)
Matte\t 44.04 % (13,639)
Don't Know\t 23.65 % (7,324)
---------------
Total votes: 30,970

Yes, these are more likely to be experienced users than your average first-time purchaser, so that's one thing to take into account. But Apple, don't you want to keep the love with experienced users too?

The other thing to take note of is the number of "dont' know" (or we can presume "don't care") votes. Neither glossy nor matte has a majority. If you consider the market for switchers, newbies, and everyone else, you can probably bump the Don't Care votes to 40-50%. Seriously, they will buy whatever Apple makes. All this talk of Most People Prefer Glossy is hogwash. Neither do most people prefer matte. Most people just don't care. And Apple is catering to them with bright, shiny screens.

Meanwhile, they don't make a computer that I can use, and that sucks.
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post #258 of 333
6/15/09 at 9:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

The glossy screens made people realize how fucking ugly they are because they can see their reflection in the screen and that led to their injuries.

Here is the problem with a matte screen: A side effect of the matte finish is a slight blurring, reduced contrast and a narrower viewing angle. Came directly from Popular Mechanics.

If you don't like the glossy screens, go buy a different computer and shut the hell up. By the way, other computer manufacturers use glossy screens too, far longer than Apple has used them. In a Macworld poll, more people preferred the glossy screen.

You care to find a link to this poll please?

Thanks.


With this Queensland University of Technology report, combined with numerous user reports and preferences, the very slight color benefits of glossy displays doesn't seem outweigh the need to eliminate reflections.

Most people don't need the sharper contrasts etc., so bad that it obstructs the use of the computer. Apple can go ahead and make glossy displays, and say 10 to 1 buy them over matte, but if they are not offering the customer a full range of choices, then that's sort of skewing the results in the favor of glossy.

After all, who's counting the matte screen users who simply walks out of a Apple Store in disgust?

NO MATTE? - NO SALE!!

"Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black." - Henry Ford

"Our customers love the glossy displays" - Philip Schiller
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post #259 of 333
6/15/09 at 9:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

These are all very good thoughts and questions. Honestly, unless the polls are *grossly* wrong, I can't understand Apple's decision []

Neither can I, but only a fool (not referring to you but to certain people here) will blatantly make solute statements about how wrong Apple is without first considering what their reasoning could be. While the poll has the disservice of being an internet-based poll on a tech-based site, its quite a large number. Unless that poll was easily hacked to allow for the numbers to be misrepresented it would appear that matte has a large enough preference to be an included option. Or at least a hybrid solution that equally pisses off both camps.
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post #260 of 333
6/15/09 at 9:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechengit View Post

Apple knows that glossy screen has glaring issues. How do I know? Because they have an anti-glare option for the 17" MacBook Pro. They just don't want to admit the issue because many ignorant consumers like the glossy screen.

There are at least as many ignorant people who like to make illogical assertions on subjects of discussion as there are people who are ignorant about technology. Rather than addressing "issues", Apple, being a business, is offering an option to satisfy customers who have a particular preference for a screen type.

Before I bought my 17" glossy-screen MBP, I checked with several people that I knew that had them. They told me that they had compared the differences between the two screen types and just preferred the glossy. There is a graphics designer whom I know who has an older matte screen MBP and really likes my glossy screen and plans to get one in the near future. Before I bought mine, I went to my local Apple store and compared same-screen images side by side on both types of screens in detail. I came away with the preference for the glossy screen and that's what I got.

I am well aware of the greater reflectivity of the glossy screen in high ambient light conditions, but it just hasn't been a bothersome issue for me. I wouldn't say that either screen is better than the other, each has its strengths and weaknesses, but it boils down to a matter of individual preference. For the people who can't stand glossy screens, I'm glad that there is a matte option. I wouldn't deride them as "ignorant" for having a choice for a particular screen that differs from my own. It would be arrogant and ignorant of me to assume that my particular preference was absolutely right and anyone else who differed was wrong.

To me, Apple's policy demonstrates respect for its customers desires and needs. Respect is a oood thing for a company to have for its customers. As users of Apple's products, and in general as people, respect is a good thing for us to have for each other. I hope that you are happy and satisfied with whatever your choice of screen is.
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post #261 of 333
6/15/09 at 10:00pm
If I didn't make myself clear earlier, than I will make it clear here in context. What I'm trying to say is that Apple is not addressing the acknowledged glare issue that can be fixed or improved on particular on the Macbook Pro glossy screens because many ignorant users like the glossy screen are either not able to acknowledge or just simply ignoring the glare issue on Macbook Pros, which is an ignorant action itself. If you don't agree, that's fine with me, as long as you don't pull statements out from thin air and accuse me of saying such statements like some people are doing.

The quote you took from me is nowhere equivalent to "all glossy screens in the world are necessarily a worse option than any matte screen." or "all glossy screens in the world have no pros just because of a glare issue on the Macbook Pro." or "all glossy screen users are ignorant." Please read carefully before responding and stop arguing against something that I'm not arguing about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by physics View Post

There are at least as many ignorant people who like to make illogical assertions on subjects of discussion as there are people who are ignorant about technology. Rather than addressing "issues", Apple, being a business, is offering an option to satisfy customers who have a particular preference for a screen type.

Before I bought my 17" glossy-screen MBP, I checked with several people that I knew that had them. They told me that they had compared the differences between the two screen types and just preferred the glossy. There is a graphics designer whom I know who has an older matte screen MBP and really likes my glossy screen and plans to get one in the near future. Before I bought mine, I went to my local Apple store and compared same-screen images side by side on both types of screens in detail. I came away with the preference for the glossy screen and that's what I got.

I am well aware of the greater reflectivity of the glossy screen in high ambient light conditions, but it just hasn't been a bothersome issue for me. I wouldn't say that either screen is better than the other, each has its strengths and weaknesses, but it boils down to a matter of individual preference. For the people who can't stand glossy screens, I'm glad that there is a matte option. I wouldn't deride them as "ignorant" for having a choice for a particular screen that differs from my own. It would be arrogant and ignorant of me to assume that my particular preference was absolutely right and anyone else who differed was wrong.

To me, Apple's policy demonstrates respect for its customers desires and needs. Respect is a oood thing for a company to have for its customers. As users of Apple's products, and in general as people, respect is a good thing for us to have for each other. I hope that you are happy and satisfied with whatever your choice of screen is.
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post #262 of 333
6/15/09 at 10:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It’s that ol’ ingrained glossy-liking ignorance in me.

Jesus Christ,

draw a Venn diagram and take it to a back room.

EDIT: As it happens, I would prefer not to have a glossy screen but frankly you ain't gettin' a lot of choice from Apple in the form factor I'm buying. It doesn't fuss me too much now but initially the reflections were quite distracting. I don't understand how professionals (and in the Mac sense, these professional are anecdotally print media or movie making type can produce color correct output using the screens currently in use. Anything off centre and they're out of calibration.

EDIT EDIT: To be On Topic - OH&S - Occupational Health and Safety is a big driver in the government workplaces. Such information is hardly newsworthy, in Australia at least.
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post #263 of 333
6/15/09 at 10:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

Wow, so easy to say, but a laptop is designed for mobility. Unless you have a fixed desk with ideal lighting, how are you supposed to achieve "not working in an environment that has a lot of light sources to create glare or reflections that would distract you"?

I own a laptop so I can work wherever I'm at, be it in a client's office, a coffee shop, or at home. And "at home" can mean any comfortable seat in the house. Are you saying I should sacrifice all that flexibility? I might as well go back to a friggin' desktop (and deal with all kinds of bad back issues)!

Um, that's why it's portable, you can move it. I use mine all the time at places like you mention. If the light is bad, I move. I used to think that glossy would be terrible and I would have so many problems with reflections and glare, but so far I haven't. For me, it's not an issue, but if you want to work outside by the pool at noon, it might be a problem. So would a matte screen. So unless you are sitting somewhere where there are tons of overhead lights that are hitting you like a prisoner during a breakout, I doubt it will bother you.
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post #264 of 333
6/15/09 at 10:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechengit View Post

What can I say? The misunderstanding is not even based on any hard fact but on people's subjective feeling that I want to condemn all glossy screens and their users just because I said "many ignorant users like glossy screen."....


Ignorant of the benefits of the matte screen in reducing reflections, consumers are more likely to buy glossy displays because of their attractive qualities.

Fixed. Now bedtime....zzzz
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post #265 of 333
6/15/09 at 10:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by physics View Post

There are at least as many ignorant people who like to make illogical assertions on subjects of discussion as there are people who are ignorant about technology. Rather than addressing "issues", Apple, being a business, is offering an option to satisfy customers who have a particular preference for a screen type.

Before I bought my 17" glossy-screen MBP, I checked with several people that I knew that had them. They told me that they had compared the differences between the two screen types and just preferred the glossy. There is a graphics designer whom I know who has an older matte screen MBP and really likes my glossy screen and plans to get one in the near future. Before I bought mine, I went to my local Apple store and compared same-screen images side by side on both types of screens in detail. I came away with the preference for the glossy screen and that's what I got.

I am well aware of the greater reflectivity of the glossy screen in high ambient light conditions, but it just hasn't been a bothersome issue for me. I wouldn't say that either screen is better than the other, each has its strengths and weaknesses, but it boils down to a matter of individual preference. For the people who can't stand glossy screens, I'm glad that there is a matte option. I wouldn't deride them as "ignorant" for having a choice for a particular screen that differs from my own. It would be arrogant and ignorant of me to assume that my particular preference was absolutely right and anyone else who differed was wrong.

To me, Apple's policy demonstrates respect for its customers desires and needs. Respect is a oood thing for a company to have for its customers. As users of Apple's products, and in general as people, respect is a good thing for us to have for each other. I hope that you are happy and satisfied with whatever your choice of screen is.

That is how I came to the same conclusion. Comparing the glossy to my old matte.
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post #266 of 333
6/15/09 at 10:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


Ignorant of the benefits of the matte screen in reducing reflections, consumers are more likely to buy glossy displays because of their attractive qualities.

Fixed. Now bedtime....zzzz

Fixed... Apple knows that glossy screen on their Macbook Pro has glare issues that can be fixed. Still, that doesn't effect the contextual message I'm trying to get across unless readers want to read sentences out of contexts.

At least, there are people that can get what I'm saying.
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post #267 of 333
6/15/09 at 11:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DdubRes79 View Post

Hey I was just wondering if you guys could go back and forth about 1,000 more times about how you hate each other making this the single longest two-person thread in AI history? Just saying get a room or something I hear that angry love can be therapeutic .

I could not agree more; solipsism and mechengit are simply killing this thread. You guys are like a tsunami here, chill please.
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post #268 of 333
6/15/09 at 11:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Such an ignorant post....

So I'm ignorant because I happen to like glossy screens? I really don't have issues with glare and I have both a unibody MacBook and a 24" Aluminum iMac. Just because you don't like them, doesn't mean everyone else is a moron for liking them. You need to think outside the box and not just in your own little world.

The fact that Apple sells millions of Macs every quarter with glossy screens tells me that people happen to like them. There is a small crowd (and a very loud one) that doesn't like them. The fact that they voice their opinion very loud makes this crowd bigger than it really is. If there was a problem people wouldn't be buying these products.

You may or may not be (ignorant on this problem with glossy screens). But the fact that many people like or dislike something, doesn't mean they're not ignorant. I guess people don't buy cigarettes anymore then? (you know the "a million flies can't be wrong..." thing right?)

The fact that you like glossy screens (because they're beatiful or something else to that effect) with other people of a like mind doesn't make you "not ignorant". Once you get you back or neck messed up due to having to sit in ankward positions for extended periods of time just to have a beatiful screen, you'll know.

A university's task is to research all kinds of stuff and the amount of sick days and visits to the doctor/chiropractor they'll may have to pay due to bad posture makes a notice like this worth while. It really has nothing to do with _just_ Apple. More with generic health (much like tobacco warnings for the ignorant people who still say "no cancer cause it looks cool").

Regs, Jarkko
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post #269 of 333
6/15/09 at 11:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

...With this Queensland University of Technology report, combined with numerous user reports and preferences, the very slight color benefits of glossy displays doesn't seem outweigh the need to eliminate reflections.

Most people don't need the sharper contrasts etc., so bad that it obstructs the use of the computer. Apple can go ahead and make glossy displays, and say 10 to 1 buy them over matte, but if they are not offering the customer a full range of choices, then that's sort of skewing the results in the favor of glossy.

After all, who's counting the matte screen users who simply walks out of a Apple Store in disgust?

NO MATTE? - NO SALE!!

"Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black." - Henry Ford

"Our customers love the glossy displays" - Philip Schiller

Wow, a fantastic post. Yes, no one's counting those users who will either buy some other brand (probably few) or just hold off purchasing indefinitely (probably many, but no one, not even Apple, would have a solid estimate on that one).

I fall into the latter camp. There's nothing Apple makes that I can use right now. I need portability, and a screen that I can actually use for more than 10 minutes without going insane. Yes, the 17" does exist, but it's barely bordering on portable - just way too big for me to lug around.

And if this joke continues for too long, I will fall into the former camp. I'm perfectly able to create a hackintosh, although I strongly prefer not to.
No Matte == No Sale :-(
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No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #270 of 333
6/15/09 at 11:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

Wow, so easy to say, but a laptop is designed for mobility. Unless you have a fixed desk with ideal lighting, how are you supposed to achieve "not working in an environment that has a lot of light sources to create glare or reflections that would distract you"?

I own a laptop so I can work wherever I'm at, be it in a client's office, a coffee shop, or at home. And "at home" can mean any comfortable seat in the house. Are you saying I should sacrifice all that flexibility? I might as well go back to a friggin' desktop (and deal with all kinds of bad back issues)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerofTruth View Post

Um, that's why it's portable, you can move it. I use mine all the time at places like you mention. If the light is bad, I move. I used to think that glossy would be terrible and I would have so many problems with reflections and glare, but so far I haven't. For me, it's not an issue, but if you want to work outside by the pool at noon, it might be a problem. So would a matte screen. So unless you are sitting somewhere where there are tons of overhead lights that are hitting you like a prisoner during a breakout, I doubt it will bother you.

I've used someone else's MacBook, in fairly typical environs, and I'm sorry, there just isn't a solution that involves slight tweaks to the angle of the laptop. I've found it virtually impossible to find ANY angle that doesn't show annoying reflections. The reflections DO exist on these glossy screens in almost every "normal" lighting situation, to some degree; it's just a matter of how bothersome they are to you. Apparently they don't bother you, and many others. Perhaps you can concentrate on your work with two bimbo college girls yakking incessantly right next to you as well. I cannot. But in that case at least one can move. With the glossy reflective screens, the problem follows you wherever you go!
No Matte == No Sale :-(
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No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #271 of 333
6/16/09 at 12:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

I really wish Apple would offer the matte finish on all notebooks, if nothing else but to shut the vocal minority up.

And yes, you are in a minority - otherwise Apple would support both across the board. And no, I don't think glossy only notebooks have hurt their sales - just look at the growth rate in the notebook category vs. desktop and the success they had last quarter.

Wow, can you please share your insider knowledge of Apple's customer preferences? Other than making a wild-assed guess based upon utter speculation, do you have any substantive proof that more people prefer glossy over matte? Cause with those big bad bold minority comments, it sure sounds like you must have some amazing data that no one else is aware of! Please share!

Oh, and while you're at it, probably the closest thing any of us have (and it's not perfect by any means) to large scale data on user preferences is the MacPolls poll. So please explain this:

http://www.macpolls.com/?poll_id=527

And no, it's very unlikely this poll was hacked, these guys are professionals and it doesn't take rocket scientists to detect that.

As I said earlier, these are probably not newbies or switchers, for the most part. If you include them you will probably get a much higher "don't care", but there's absolutely nothing that makes a case for more people actually preferring glossy. What there is a very good case for is that most people just don't give a shit, so Apple is building one model to make their lives easier. But they are ignoring a very substantial number of users, and I believe that they will eventually have a "change of heart".
No Matte == No Sale :-(
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No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #272 of 333
6/16/09 at 12:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

...While the poll has the disservice of being an internet-based poll on a tech-based site, its quite a large number. Unless that poll was easily hacked to allow for the numbers to be misrepresented it would appear that matte has a large enough preference to be an included option. Or at least a hybrid solution that equally pisses off both camps.

Agreed!

Hey, are we all done now? :-)
No Matte == No Sale :-(
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No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #273 of 333
6/16/09 at 12:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fltman View Post

I could not agree more; solipsism and mechengit are simply killing this thread. You guys are like a tsunami here, chill please.

Thanks it is getting out of control. I get passionate about this very topic but if you click the user you can select "send private message"and yell all week long.

Apple Profits: Glossy FTW and I cannot fault them for it because the new 'college and soccer dad' consumer group that seems to make up 90% of Apple's market now loves things extra bling-bling shiny.

My personal preference: Matte 100% I have a NEC 2690wuxi2 matte wide-gamut at home for my professional work and if they stopped producing matte monitors I'd find a new profession =) I am in the minority with a horrendous eye prescription and any glare/reflection/high brightness gives me migraines and I love that I can lower this mattle lcd way down and still calibrate it.

My personal issue is that I don't have an Apple portable right now (just the beastly Mac Pro) and I don't want a 17in for on-the-go just get a matte screen. I may just get a 15in and do the matte replacement but that is a last ditch hope.
You win, I've switched sides.
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You win, I've switched sides.
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post #274 of 333
6/16/09 at 1:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Here is the problem with a matte screen: A side effect of the matte finish is a slight blurring, reduced contrast and a narrower viewing angle. Came directly from Popular Mechanics.

Slight blurring and reduced contrast are not really noticeable and the viewing angle is obviously a theoretical one because a whole load of angles that you choose to view a glossy display at, there is a very clear reflection over the image you are trying to see. I've actually had more real-world problems with viewing angle on a glossy than matte because you simply don't watch displays at extreme angles anyway and matte handles varied lighting conditions far better.

I think once the iphone 3GS hits the stores this week, we will be able to see the difference between the screen with the oleophobic coating that helps diffuse the light and the old 3G model. If it's significantly improved, I see no reason why Apple can't still sell glass, glossy screens with that coating applied on their Macs too.
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post #275 of 333
6/16/09 at 2:35am
only glossy screen I had problem with was a dell. My MBP 15 is fine - i use it in all locations and cant remember having to adjust it for glare
___
John
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___
John
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post #276 of 333
6/16/09 at 5:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechengit View Post

You still don't want to admit your inappropriate deductions? How pathetic.

From post #7

I first mentioned the glare issues on Macbooks that Apple has acknowledged of. Does that mean I'm saying "glossy screen are definitely worse than matte and now only ignorant will use glossy screen. Glossy screen sucks and matte screen rules"? No. Ironically, you're the one who has been emphasizing the pros and cons of both sides!

I also mentioned that many ignorant consumers like the glossy screen in post #7. Does that mean I'm saying "whoever uses or likes glossy screen are ignorant"? Obviously not.

I'm glad that my words are recorded because it only goes to show your obviously inappropriate deduction.

By the way, I can say it again and again that many consumers, if not all, are ignorant. There, you have it and I can say that as many times as you like. That will not hide the fact that your misunderstanding is based on your own deduction.

Man, you are cracking me up and really made my day.



So that means whoever uses glossy screen are ignorant?
So does that mean I said that a glossy screen is necessarily a worse screen than a matte one?
Obviously not!



So that means whoever uses glossy screen are ignorant?
So does that mean I said that a glossy screen is necessarily a worse screen than a matte one?
Obviously not!



So that means whoever uses glossy screen are ignorant?
So does that mean I said that a glossy screen is necessarily a worse screen than a matte one?
Obviously not!



Oh... so that draws to the conclusion that whoever uses glossy screen are ignorant?
So does that mean I said that a glossy screen is necessarily a worse screen than a matte one?
Obviously not!

Man, you are really cracking me up. You not only misread once, but four times.

WTF
I LOVE GLOSSY SCREENS
IT PLAY MOVIES BACK IN A FINE MODE
sorry for screaming
glossy is so fine .

Are you saying i am stupid ??? Or did you buy glossy and feel stupid ?

welcome to the boards
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #277 of 333
6/16/09 at 6:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechengit View Post

The point of mentioning anti-glare option of the 17" Macbook Pro is to show that Apple acknowledge the glare issue on the glossy screen.

Wow, what a keen insight into the thought process of those at Apple. You care to back that assertion up with anything other then anecdotal evidence? Because I think they are just addressing a preference that some people have. Just like they only off the express card on the 17" MBP now too.

Just because you keep calling it a problem doesn't automatically make it a problem.

Quote:
Some people just like to tense up when they hear different opinions from theirs.

I'm glad you are acknowledging that. Admitting you have a problem is the first step in resolving it.
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post #278 of 333
6/16/09 at 6:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Wow, what a keen insight into the thought process of those at Apple. You care to back that assertion up with anything other then anecdotal evidence? Because I think they are just addressing a preference that some people have. Just like they only off the express card on the 17" MBP now too.[/i]

On that point, what are they saying about 17" MBP users, that is somehow not relevant to 13 and 15 inch MBP users?
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post #279 of 333
6/16/09 at 6:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4miler View Post

The website http://macmatte.wordpress.com has a review of a number of online polls on the glossy and matte debate, and the average is that 40% prefer matte. So yes, 40% is a minority, but not a small minority.

Actually, considering that isn't a scientific poll, but an open poll those results are pretty pathetic.

Especially considering how strong an opinion the anti-glossy people have.

Quote:
Ask yourself this question, if it weren't such a large majority, would these debates be so vociferous?

A very vocal minority. If it weren't such a minority, polls like the one you referenced would be far more skewed toward the matte side.

Quote:
The matte crowd is vocal because the issue of how you feel at ease with a screen is fundamental to the computer user's experience.

And I can understand that. That's why I do (truely!) wish that Apple would just offer the @%#$ matte displays across the line - they can obviously do it as they have with the 17"
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post #280 of 333
6/16/09 at 6:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4miler View Post

You've gotta be kidding. Like Apple did their research that told them to remove Firewire from the MacBook -- and only after the outcry, they bring Firewire back in the latest MacBook?

Or, perhaps they ran out of physical room in the first design of the MacBook, and re-designed the new one (non-removeable battery and removal of express card with the smaller, less complex SD card slot) so that it had enough room to add the port back?

I realize that's not as much fun as getting to label Steve a dictator, but it's probably far more accurate then some vast conspiracy of personality.
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